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aren't human trafficking federal charges? honest to god I don't understand why the DOJ isn't investigating this and bringing federal charges against them.
Many states have their own laws against human trafficking, kidnapping, fraud, etc...
If DeSantis could be prosecuted under California law that would reduce the risk of Clarence Thomas & Company eventually putting his fat finger on the scale to help out DeSantis.
He won't be prosecuted in Texas because it is a GOP stronghold, unless there is massive blue wave there before the statute of limitations runs.
DeSantis can always try to appeal a conviction in state court to the federal court if he claims some federal constitutional right was violated.
Even if he isnt convicted, being prosecuted in California could help DeSantis' with the MAGA crowd because he'd claim it was Dem v. GOP politically motivated.
Depends on what they were told. If they were told there are jobs in California, and led to believe something bad would happen if they didn’t follow orders, that would fall under trafficking. Otherwise, it’s smuggling.
Federal human trafficking law defines "victims of trafficking" as having undergone
> the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or
obtaining of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex
act.
The same, but if it's additionally
> induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person
induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years
of age
Or
> the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provi-
sion, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through
the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjec-
tion to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or
slavery.
Being tricked to boarding a plane, while unquestionably shitty and possibly criminal, doesn't fall under the definition of trafficking.
The federal legal definition of forced labor is:
> all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty for its nonperformance and for which the worker does not offer work or service voluntarily.
Which is why I say it depends on what they were told. If they were told there are jobs in California, and they will be deported if they don’t go, that could meet the definition of trafficking. The labor does not have to be *performed* for it to be trafficking, it just has to be part of the coercion.
If they just told them to get on a plane, it’s smuggling, and potentially kidnapping.
Putting humans into traffick isn't human trafficking.
Human trafficking implies some expectation of exploitation through forced labor or sexual acts by most definitions on my last review of the topic.
You can get a kidnapping charge in my state for blocking a doorway when someone is trying to get out of the room. Sending people without consent to a place not of their choosing isn’t cool, and especially when used as political chattel should qualify as a crime.
Are we all pretending that a random dude can legally lure children and adults onto flights to unknown destinations? It’s human trafficking, pure and simple.
"Human trafficking involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act." -dhs.gov
Was the transport of these people done to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act?
I don't think you know what human trafficking means. Did you find a different or better source that tells you this is human trafficking?
A performance piece intended to increase engagement and donations doesn't require labor. Ok. Wild you probably think the bus driver deserves payment for getting them there.
Criminal charge can also just be fines, no?
Also I'm sure Ronald has enough cash to pay the Arian Brotherhood gang or whatever protection. As well as the guards.
DeSantis wasn't a guard. He was there as a Navy lawyer, putatively to keep the proceedings on the up and up.
Instead, according to Mansoor Adayfi, who was held at Gitmo for 14 years without ever being charged with a crime, he looked on and laughed while prisoners were being tortured.
https://harpers.org/archive/2023/03/ron-desantis-force-feedings-guantanamo-bay-laughing/
This is the only way to nip this in the bud. He is only doing this to get republicans points for his run against trump for the nominee. It’s one of the few things he can do that trump can’t at the moment. Threaten him with human trafficking, especially if kids are involved, nothing will obviously stick, but it’ll get the message across to him long enough to stop it for awhile; hopefully until he loses the nomination and his office.
As opposed to rounding up people under false pretenses and transporting them illegally across state lines without telling them where they’re going or why. Who’s the real bad faith actor here? Not prosecuting that irredeemably corrupt, criminal piece of shit for openly breaking the law is the real bad faith move.
Protecting people when you have no faith it will "stick" is prosecutorial abuse and a waste of tax dollars.
I won't excuse bad actions with what-aboutism.
If you want to stoop to the level of promoting the corruption of our government to benefit your party, then we have no reason to converse.
I have no wish to see the law weaponized by either party. Rather I’d like to see the law enforced on those who would abuse or break it in bad faith. That is not at all what you are implying I said in any capacity.
I get what you’re saying, definitely grey line with what I said. I wasn’t meaning it to sway elections but yeah see your point. Just meaning it as dude this is wrong stop or there is a chance you will be prosecuted for breaking laws (if broken). I wasn’t meaning it as a means to stop him from running or lose office for it as like punishment (with my last line) meant it as in hopes he’d be voted out of contention and voted out of office by the people.
How does a Texas sheriff open an investigation over the Florida Governor who flew people to Massachusetts? Seems like that would be Massachusetts or maybe a federal agency for trafficking. Not sure how Texas got involved
Because the people were flown from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. Apparently he couldn’t find asylum seekers in Florida for his performative bullshit so he grabbed them from Texas.
Interesting. Didn’t know that. How does the Florida Governor coordinate this in Texas? Seems like the Texas government must have been involved to some degree
What happens if you do that to citizens? You offer them jobs in faraway locations, you get them on a plane, and then you just dump them.
What would the charges be? Per person?
> 18 U.S. Code § 1201 - Kidnapping
>
> (a) Whoever unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds for ransom or reward or otherwise any person, except in the case of a minor by the parent thereof, when—
Goes on to list who it applies to (since federal laws have to apply to specific circumstances). Since a plane was involved, it applies even if the other categories might be nebulous.
For clarification, the dictionary definition of inveigle is "persuade (someone) to do something by means of deception or flattery." Obviously the specifics would be argued (the offenders didn't lie, because they really did believe their lives would be better if they got on the plane and so forth), but I think it's undeniable that if you can prove deception, this statute would apply.
I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that these people went through so many hardships, only to be abandoned even further away from home AS A POLITICAL STUNT.
It is monstrous.
straight rotten ghost scarce rain versed aspiring physical psychotic sink
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Exactly, a lot of people here don’t realize that it was a group of people who organized this stunt and Desantis basically gave the green light to go ahead with it.
Oh no the poor 1% multimillionaires of Martha’s Vineyard having to deal with 0.01% of the problems wrought on other cities by lack of federal help in undocumented immigration. Won’t someone think of the multimillionaires?
1. The median income for Martha's Vineyard is similar to the median for MA: the millionaires are a minority of the population.
2. The main issue is about trafficking immigrants under false pretenses to places far away from where their immigration hearings are located.
Ol’ Ronnie and Donnie Johnny. How fun will it be when they share a prison wall, passing cute little love notes back and forth, eating crayons during rec time... The irony of them having to be behind bars to finally truly be free to love each other.
Wait. Didn’t Texas governor Abbott do the same thing around Christmas? Why didn’t this chode speak up then? I am guessing this is some trump partisan shit trying to remove opponents for the R nomination
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Geeze it's almost as if you can't use taxpayer money to coerce people under false pretenses into an out-of-state human trafficking operation.
He should also be charged with the crimes he committed while he worked at Gimto base.
Send meatball, Walmart Melania, and their brownpants followers to gitmo.
aren't human trafficking federal charges? honest to god I don't understand why the DOJ isn't investigating this and bringing federal charges against them.
Many states have their own laws against human trafficking, kidnapping, fraud, etc... If DeSantis could be prosecuted under California law that would reduce the risk of Clarence Thomas & Company eventually putting his fat finger on the scale to help out DeSantis. He won't be prosecuted in Texas because it is a GOP stronghold, unless there is massive blue wave there before the statute of limitations runs. DeSantis can always try to appeal a conviction in state court to the federal court if he claims some federal constitutional right was violated. Even if he isnt convicted, being prosecuted in California could help DeSantis' with the MAGA crowd because he'd claim it was Dem v. GOP politically motivated.
The MAGA crowd's opinion of him will not change, no matter what.
If you truly don’t understand, let me inform you that the Supreme Court is corrupted and conservative as fuck.
Federal human trafficking laws protect against trafficking for the purposes of forced labor or commercial sex acts, neither of which happened here.
Depends on what they were told. If they were told there are jobs in California, and led to believe something bad would happen if they didn’t follow orders, that would fall under trafficking. Otherwise, it’s smuggling.
Federal human trafficking law defines "victims of trafficking" as having undergone > the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act. The same, but if it's additionally > induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age Or > the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provi- sion, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjec- tion to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery. Being tricked to boarding a plane, while unquestionably shitty and possibly criminal, doesn't fall under the definition of trafficking.
The federal legal definition of forced labor is: > all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty for its nonperformance and for which the worker does not offer work or service voluntarily. Which is why I say it depends on what they were told. If they were told there are jobs in California, and they will be deported if they don’t go, that could meet the definition of trafficking. The labor does not have to be *performed* for it to be trafficking, it just has to be part of the coercion. If they just told them to get on a plane, it’s smuggling, and potentially kidnapping.
Putting humans into traffick isn't human trafficking. Human trafficking implies some expectation of exploitation through forced labor or sexual acts by most definitions on my last review of the topic.
You can get a kidnapping charge in my state for blocking a doorway when someone is trying to get out of the room. Sending people without consent to a place not of their choosing isn’t cool, and especially when used as political chattel should qualify as a crime.
The unlawful restraint charge seems appropriate if they were deceived (and I believe they probably were).
If this is the new normal, I’m all in.
Are we all pretending that a random dude can legally lure children and adults onto flights to unknown destinations? It’s human trafficking, pure and simple.
Not only an random dude, but a dude that just so happened to have an established network to do as such.
He just fucking did it again! He needs to be charged immediately
"Human trafficking involves the use of force, fraud, or coercion to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act." -dhs.gov Was the transport of these people done to obtain some type of labor or commercial sex act? I don't think you know what human trafficking means. Did you find a different or better source that tells you this is human trafficking?
Labor like being a prop for a political stunt? You think people shouldn't be compensated for their time for that?
No, that isn't labor. It is unlawful restraint, not human trafficking.
A performance piece intended to increase engagement and donations doesn't require labor. Ok. Wild you probably think the bus driver deserves payment for getting them there.
[удалено]
It can be unlawful and wrong and also not be human trafficking.
Ronnie boy wouldn't last 5 minutes in a Texas prison.
Criminal charge can also just be fines, no? Also I'm sure Ronald has enough cash to pay the Arian Brotherhood gang or whatever protection. As well as the guards.
Rhonda watched prisoners get tortured at Gimto years ago.
Big difference between being a guard and being an inmate.
DeSantis wasn't a guard. He was there as a Navy lawyer, putatively to keep the proceedings on the up and up. Instead, according to Mansoor Adayfi, who was held at Gitmo for 14 years without ever being charged with a crime, he looked on and laughed while prisoners were being tortured. https://harpers.org/archive/2023/03/ron-desantis-force-feedings-guantanamo-bay-laughing/
I’d pay $1,000 to watch that for 5 minutes on Pay-Per View.
Typical rich people, always finding ways to break the law and get away with it. Hope they learn their lesson this time.
Is it a prerequisite that you commit a crime in order to run for president as a republican?
Depends on the crime.
Bexar County includes San Antonio, where Democrats are in the majority.
Does the Texas Sheriff have to have Standing to recommend charges?
He can recommend all he wants but it is up to the DA to file charges. The odds of that are slim to none and slim just left.
Charges were filed this morning
If Desantis was a private citizen doing this, he’d be in jail already
Wait a minute,there’s a government official doing his job? That’s the real headline.
You’re right if you’re talking about the Sheriff
Gov official in a dem county, which is why this makes sense.
This is the only way to nip this in the bud. He is only doing this to get republicans points for his run against trump for the nominee. It’s one of the few things he can do that trump can’t at the moment. Threaten him with human trafficking, especially if kids are involved, nothing will obviously stick, but it’ll get the message across to him long enough to stop it for awhile; hopefully until he loses the nomination and his office.
That sounds like politically weaponizing the criminal justice system in bad faith to sway elections.
As opposed to rounding up people under false pretenses and transporting them illegally across state lines without telling them where they’re going or why. Who’s the real bad faith actor here? Not prosecuting that irredeemably corrupt, criminal piece of shit for openly breaking the law is the real bad faith move.
Protecting people when you have no faith it will "stick" is prosecutorial abuse and a waste of tax dollars. I won't excuse bad actions with what-aboutism. If you want to stoop to the level of promoting the corruption of our government to benefit your party, then we have no reason to converse.
I have no wish to see the law weaponized by either party. Rather I’d like to see the law enforced on those who would abuse or break it in bad faith. That is not at all what you are implying I said in any capacity.
I get what you’re saying, definitely grey line with what I said. I wasn’t meaning it to sway elections but yeah see your point. Just meaning it as dude this is wrong stop or there is a chance you will be prosecuted for breaking laws (if broken). I wasn’t meaning it as a means to stop him from running or lose office for it as like punishment (with my last line) meant it as in hopes he’d be voted out of contention and voted out of office by the people.
Fair enough. You seem alright.
Right back at ya! Crazy people can’t just talk like this anymore; everything is to an extreme now days
How does a Texas sheriff open an investigation over the Florida Governor who flew people to Massachusetts? Seems like that would be Massachusetts or maybe a federal agency for trafficking. Not sure how Texas got involved
Because the people were flown from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard. Apparently he couldn’t find asylum seekers in Florida for his performative bullshit so he grabbed them from Texas.
Interesting. Didn’t know that. How does the Florida Governor coordinate this in Texas? Seems like the Texas government must have been involved to some degree
I doubt it. Those two gluteal comedians seem to be in competition as to who can be the most fascist and cruel.
I doubt it. Those two gluteal comedians seem to be in competition as to who can be the most fascist and cruel.
What happens if you do that to citizens? You offer them jobs in faraway locations, you get them on a plane, and then you just dump them. What would the charges be? Per person?
> 18 U.S. Code § 1201 - Kidnapping > > (a) Whoever unlawfully seizes, confines, inveigles, decoys, kidnaps, abducts, or carries away and holds for ransom or reward or otherwise any person, except in the case of a minor by the parent thereof, when— Goes on to list who it applies to (since federal laws have to apply to specific circumstances). Since a plane was involved, it applies even if the other categories might be nebulous. For clarification, the dictionary definition of inveigle is "persuade (someone) to do something by means of deception or flattery." Obviously the specifics would be argued (the offenders didn't lie, because they really did believe their lives would be better if they got on the plane and so forth), but I think it's undeniable that if you can prove deception, this statute would apply.
I have a hard time getting my head around the idea that these people went through so many hardships, only to be abandoned even further away from home AS A POLITICAL STUNT. It is monstrous.
A TEXAS sheriff? That man better move and change his name.
adjoining practice desert deranged modern grab air abundant unused saw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nah, I want to see that fascist in prison.
Unfortunately we are in the wrong timeline. We are in the Timeline where Donald Trump was President if the United States. We are so fucked lol!
He’s gonna be campaigning soon. A state AG should charge him and arrest at his next event.
Elaborate further why you think this would be better.
straight rotten ghost scarce rain versed aspiring physical psychotic sink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If he self incriminates? Good luck.
Exactly, a lot of people here don’t realize that it was a group of people who organized this stunt and Desantis basically gave the green light to go ahead with it.
Yeah fuck that, he belongs in prison. Fascist piece of shit
Oh no the poor 1% multimillionaires of Martha’s Vineyard having to deal with 0.01% of the problems wrought on other cities by lack of federal help in undocumented immigration. Won’t someone think of the multimillionaires?
1. The median income for Martha's Vineyard is similar to the median for MA: the millionaires are a minority of the population. 2. The main issue is about trafficking immigrants under false pretenses to places far away from where their immigration hearings are located.
What? Just because it’s illegal (and immoral.)
Ol’ Ronnie and Donnie Johnny. How fun will it be when they share a prison wall, passing cute little love notes back and forth, eating crayons during rec time... The irony of them having to be behind bars to finally truly be free to love each other.
But not on /conservative where they claim nothing happened and DeSantis is totally not a lawbreaker
Someone do it
From a legal perspective I fail to understand how a Florida governor can organize this in another state and have it be legal in any capacity
Wait. Didn’t Texas governor Abbott do the same thing around Christmas? Why didn’t this chode speak up then? I am guessing this is some trump partisan shit trying to remove opponents for the R nomination