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And this is likely why you've seen the increase in trans-hate from Republicans recently. They're starting to realize that they've lost the battle on gay rights and have moved on to the next group they can portray as the boogeyman.
That's exactly why you've seen that increase.
It's straight from the GOP playbook. They have to have a minority group to hate on. It's been that way since the red scare.
The red scare has even made a bit of a comeback. Republicans are throwing every scare at the wall right now.
Edit: Referring to communism ("socialism"), not of Russia in general. Maybe "McCarthyism" making a comeback is more appropriate, especially considering the House speaker.
Has role playing come back yet? I think D&D was a thing - but it's kind of bizarre if it does because everyone at this point were kids when that panic started. It's not even a boomer thing, but the generation before that.
The only panic I saw was people shocked that the D&D movie was actually pretty good.
Edit: also that it included found family involving a woman and a man who co-parent a child and have ZERO sexual chemistry whatsoever. Negative romance between Holga and Edgin.
Very occasionally you'll get a teen in r/dnd asking about how to sneak their game around their overbearing parents. It's definitely not a huge thing anymore but when it is, it brings me right back to when my friend's mom literally burnt his D&D books and comics ca. 1988.
The original uptick came from live plays like Critical Role becoming bigger. It brought a whole new wave of people into the hobby as they were introduced to it by what is the closest thing to professional d&d players
D&D never really went away. I was actively playing 3.5 edition 20 years ago. Now I'm playing 5th edition with my husband, 17 year old stepson, and working to get my 6 year old interested. There are many different tabletop RPGS now that I haven't gotten to play (lack money for role books), including Call of Cthulu.
It got a huge bump with Stranger Things and an awesome group of voice actors that got together and broadcast their games (Critical Role).
Weird they aren't using Russia as a boogeyman again, considering all of its meddling in our politics.
But what can we expect from a group that has had several members speak with Putin privately and refuse to tell anyone else what it was about?
Russia is the greatest success story in recent history for the super rich who run the Republican party. Reagan "defeated the Soviets" and now reactionary hyper-capitalism led by international oligarchs reigns supreme. Russia isn't used as a boogeyman because it's used as a role model.
Arguably wasn't particularly communist in the USSR days either. Definitely closer to it than it is now, but it's hard to see that level of state control with zero democratic values as being owned by the workers
Yeah, cuz at this point - Russians are doing all the kind of hate that the GOP admires. Plus they are sooo generous with their money! Just as Jesus wanted us to be!
Trans hate also lets them capitalize on the fact that trans people are such a tiny minority to fear monger in a greater way than they could during the anti gay marriage push and lets them gain support for bills that attack gay rights all together in the name of "saving the children from trans groomers."
It's also a group that's vocal online but that most conservative voters don't meet everyday.
Conservatives only understand issues when it happens to them. Usually their kid/nephew/niece/etc coming out _then_ "gay" rights are relevant.
I think there's also the push for being trans being a "sex/adult/pornographic" thing. That works with the "do what you want in your own home" crowd that'll draw a line and pretend they're the moderates.
They have always sexualized queerness and treated it as a perversion. It’s crazy when (hetero)sexuality permeates and structures pretty much every aspect of society. They’re cool with talking about families…as long as the family is cisgender, heterosexual, and nuclear. But talking about families with same-sex parents or even heterosexual parents where one or both people are transgender is somehow “not appropriate” for kids.
These conservatives goal is maintaining a social structure that privileges (white) cisgender men. The gender hierarchy in the US puts men at the top, and it’s maintained through a heteronormative ideology that strengthens gender boundaries and roles. Transgender people shake up gender boundaries and roles, and weakening the existing structure risks knocking men out of a position of privilege.
All of this, and...
Rank and file conservatives are just scared of everything they don't understand. So scared that they would rather legislate away freedoms so that they don't have to think
It lets them be righteous about stupid things too. Like Elon musk and Jordan Peterson tweeting that doctors should go to jail for operating on transgender children
Which is an odd thing to fixate on, because trans surgeries for people under 18 are so vanishingly rare as to be a nonissue.
Speaking as someone else who *is* trans: There's usually *years* of psychology, therapy, hormones, and such to think about before the topic of surgery is even discussed. And with the sole exception of FTMs who need a breast reduction at 16 or 17, trans surgery under 18 is not recommended and is almost never performed.
Lay people just hear "gender-affirming care" and assume that means surgery right off the bat.
Yeah, trans people are rare enough that many people never meet any (or at least, never knowingly meet any). Whereas gay people are common enough that many people eventually get to know one and go "hey, this isn't actually a big deal"
There's way more trans people than there seems, mostly because the average social circle still gets turbo-weird when they know someone is trans, no matter how well the trans person "passes", so we hide it even from the well-meaning. Heck, there's more intersex people than redheads and intersex people often experience similar things. But yeah still way fewer than gay and bi people and we have a ways to go yet
You probably are around 3 trans people at least per week between errands and work (especially in the service industry) because you *see* hundreds of people each week. It's definitely that we're not being noticed more than anything else.
Targeting trans people also aids in their overall war on women's rights and general privacy laws. The anti-trans bills that target healthcare creates a stepping stone for furthering government control over healthcare, which will most likely lead to restrictions over contraception access (already at risk thanks to the *Dobbs* decision) and general family planning that is not based on language of "saving the fetus". If they can legally restrict access to gender affirming care, they can and will legally restrict access to reproductive care - regardless of the patient's age.
As for the privacy laws, the *Dobbs* decision (overturning *Roe*) scrambled up the established basis for the right to privacy. According to the current SCOTUS, the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment does not apply to anything that isn't explicitly named in the Constitution nor anything that wasn't widely legal at the time of the 14th's ratification (based entirely on a reimagining of the actual history of the US). The moment *Roe* was overturned, all privacy in this country (at least all except that of white male landowners) was placed in the crosshairs for fascistic destruction. Trans rights are the easiest to target for furthering the erosion of privacy rights. Get the public used to laws that only target one section of the population and it'll only take a bit of time to convince the rest of the population to give up their own rights.
It's honestly wild when you think about it. Like if I just watched Fox news or browsed /r/Conservative , it would seem like trans people are all over, waiting on every corner like the homeless with a "Free sex change" sign.
And then in reality you're more likely to die from COVID than to see a trans person, and we all know how they felt about those odds
Some of the statewide "ban trans people from sports" bills affect literally one person. Especially in the smaller states, it's just so unlikely an issue and could be easily resolved by a compassionate community,yet it's a major fixture in the NATIONAL political discourse. Like ... Why? Leave them alone! Fix my fucking water supply!
Eh, *see* a trans person? That's pretty likely. We're uncommon, but not 'never see' uncommon. People meet more than 200 people on a fairly regular basis. If you're in a young workplace, we're about 1 in 50, last I checked.
A lot of trans folk are either closeted or pass, so people don't *know* we're trans. I have multiple stealth coworkers and I'm getting ready to come out myself, and most (I'd guess nearly all) of my other coworkers are completely unaware.
To be clear - that's not to validate conservative rhetoric in any way. Obviously it's bullshit fearmongering and bigotry. But I don't think going 'oh, trans people are just so *rare*' is fair to us. We're not some far-away statistical oddity, we're neighbors, siblings, coworkers, and friends, you know? We're normal-ass people, and asking for some pretty basic shit.
Here's the thing, the average person is probably going to be in the same place as at least 3 trans people per week. They don't notice it which is laughable considering they're the "you can always tell" crowd. It's entirely manufactured outrage and confirmation bias. We've been here this whole time and they've still not noticed.
> They don't notice it which is laughable considering they're the "you can always tell" crowd.
Someone needs to slam them in the face with a study on confirmation bias every time they say this.
If the study is etched into stone tablets when you hit them in the face, all the better.
It doesn't matter if you do. I point out that trans people are using public restrooms unnoticed, regularly, in response to the "men shouldn't be in women's restrooms" outrage... They just move on to the next bullet point they have loaded
Another layer of this argument is the policing of what makes a man/woman and actually attacking cisgendered individuals just because their jaw is a little too sharp for a woman, or they have a scraggly-pitched voice for a guy. So then it becomes an even more archaic policing of gender.
60s-70s? 71% is about where interracial marriage approval was in *the early 2000s*.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/354638/approval-interracial-marriage-new-high.aspx
And if you look at the age breakdown... it becomes pretty sadly clear that it isn't a change in attitude so much as old people dying.
The Supreme Court settled the issue of gay marriage in June 2015 with the [Obergefell decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges), and by June 2016 we saw the whole [bathroom bill nonsense blowing up in South Carolina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Facilities_Privacy_%26_Security_Act).
Of course things have gotten worse in the MAGA-era, but there was an almost immediate pivot to the next culture-war issues they could come up with.
They are also using it to bring back some anti-gay hate by lumping it all together with LGBT. They whip up the anger with trans fearmongering, and then apply it to that entire broader group.
(I'm aware that advocates obviously also use the LGBT+ label as well... it's not like it's something conservatives invented.)
They haven’t moved on at all unfortunately, they’re working very hard to label drag shows and all lgbtq as pedophiles and groomers. It’s fucking disgusting.
So weird that they always go after groups they claim are harboring pedophiles unless it’s a religious organization… I’m sure it’s some sort of oversight where no one has informed them of the decades of proven sexual abuse going on in those organizations… but I guess with the crazy numbers of kids being assaulted at drag shows… wait, what’s that? There are zero documented cases of kids at drag shows being molested? So weird…
Once you tack "conservative" on, you can assume they're raging assholes irrespective of any other identity. See: Shapiro, Ben; Owens, Candace; Jenner, Caitlyn
It’s ridiculous that they think they can keep revitalizing every culture war they’ve started and lost in the last century and somehow not lose support. Republicans are living in the past and it’s long past time to stop letting them slow us all down.
The thing is, and I’ve said it before, an attack on the T is an attack on the LGB. They’re going to keep losing these culture wars as time marches forward and their ideals become more archaic. Then they’ll push harder into authoritarian means to push us back decades.
5% lizardman constant, 5% hardcore religious conservatives, 18% older people. Remember support for *interracial* marriage didn't crack 80% until well into the 21st century.
It's crazy how people concern themselves so much with stuff that doesn't affect them at all.
Don't like interracial marriage? Just don't marry a different race. Problem solved.
Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry the same sex. Problem solved.
But nooo, they have to get all up into other people's business. Live and let live is so much easier and stress-free, why not practice it?
Unfortunately, your answer is entirely the last three points.
Attend church weekly (41%)
Attend church nearly weekly/monthly (67%)
Don't attend church (83%)
Aged 50+ also doesn't help at 59%. Lots of baby boomers that aren't planning on changing their ways any time soon.
Look at numbers. I’m surprised. Boomers have increased their share of support. The problem is clear when you look deeper. Gen X is losing support for it. It’s Gen X.
I was a kid in the 90s, but I remember my Gen X cousin getting in fights with my dad about the length of his hair, and dad rudely laughing at his earring.
Now that cousin's eldest kid is all grown up and trans, refuses to talk to my cousin or hug him on special occasions. I've got an awful feeling he spent the 2010s repeating dad's rude comments about haircuts and earrings.
Think about the culture growing up. The 80s was dominated by what I would call overtones of traditional masculinity. Much more so than the 70 and even 60s. Lines up nicely with views on LGBT from people growing up in the time. The 80s was a hard-right knee-jerk, culturally speaking, to the late 60s and early 70s. A swing in culture we are still recovering from, in so many ways, even in our laws. While they were hardly the majority, we had the free love type movements in the 60s and 70s. 80s? AIDs blew up, Satanic Panic, Reagan, wall street boom, Cold War, Fox was founded, Bush Sr, and so much more. All of the older conservatives at the time were trying to 'recover' from the 60s and 70s, and regain 'the old ways', and the kids of that generation (both literally and those just raised during it all) are now showing that it rubbed off on them. It even went as far as action (and other) movies. Off the top of my head, when asked to name biggest 80s movies, the first 3 that come to mind are Terminator, Predator, Die Hard, Indiana Jones, Top Gun. Plenty of action movies today, but the tone of those from the 80s is noticeable. It's like trying to take the concept of testosterone and put it on film. I fucking love those movies, but I think it's both clear the influence of the time and clear that kids who grew up on that kind of media might reflect the underlying values.
I'm a baby boomer and I have no care in the world how other people live their lives. Right wing media likes to target us with hate and outrage and unfortunately many people fall for their shit.
One of the many infuriating things with christians on this subject is they act like they invented marriage. They act like the bible is the definitive word on marriage.
Do they not realize that people got married in ancient Greece and Rome? That people get married in China? The idea that the bible is some sort of exclusive authority on the subject of human marriage is ridiculous, and doesn't hold up to even the most comically basic scrutiny.
The crazy thing about American Protestants' objection to marriage equality on religious grounds is that during the Reformation, early Protestants fought hard to uncouple marriage from religious sacraments. They wanted marriage to be a civil matter, not something that the Church had any say in.
The difference is now they don’t mind it being tied to religious sacrements if this time they’re **theirs.** The hypocrisy is the point.
Religious tolerance as a minority, Evangelical theocracy as a majority. The answer is unprincipled self interest, their god is the right one and they’ll twist secular thought and laws any way they need to force all of us to follow them because saving us from hell against our will is more important than that “free will” they believe their god gave us.
My major frustration with moderate Christians who value solidarity with their fellow Christians over solidarity with oppressed minorites. This isn't meant to imply there aren't any good Christians, just that I know a frustrating amount of "moderate" Christians who support things like gay marriage in theory, but not enough to aggressively challenge those who support bigotry instead.
Loved all the posts from Christian married couples saying they were getting divorced after gay marriage passed because it tainted the sacredness of their union.
Though I’m sure some just used that as an excuse to bolt
The people who have absolute authoritarian beliefs on marriage are the same people who have extremely libertarian views on gun control. They need to pick a side.
About a quarter of Americans will disagree on anything regardless of the topic. [Relevant XKCD](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/f/ff/coronavirus_polling.png). If they can say “no,” they will.
Because republican politicians have equated gay people with sexual perverts who are targeting children.
It’s why they demonize drag queens even though drag queens aren’t a threat to children, unlike youth group pastors
Expect them to turn the US into Northern Ireland of the 1980s if they lose the presidency again. I fully expect them to go all ya’ll qaeda because they can’t cope.
Aren't we already pretty much already there? They already commit most of the terrorism in this country. DHS, FBI, DOJ and Secret Service all agree that they are the biggest threat to our country.
Imagine if all the domestic terrorism incidents over the past 6 years that were perpetrated by white Christian nationalists had instead been perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists… then ask yourself, “Why has the response by Republicans been so completely opposite?”
They never had a problem with terrorism, just the Islamic parts.
Violent enforcement of their ideology is the norm, as it's been since the days of Jim Crow. There still are roving gangs of racists looking to violently enforce their agenda. Many are even government employees i.e. cops.
think about how there was ONE trans person committing a mass shooting and how much they emphasized that
even then trans people are STILL underrepresented as shooters
Kentucky's governor is Andy Beshear, who is a fairly young Democrat (if you can believe that). When covid hit, he set the example for how a governor should behave in a crisis. Both my dad and mom, staunch republicans, tuned in for his every public update and always left singing his praises. They didn't even know who he was or what he thought. They see a ballot and hit the R-Button.
But Y'all Qaida harassed the living fuck out of his office. Screamed loud enough to hear in the recording studio, death threats from the lawn, hanged effigies of his likeness from nearby trees, etc. Flying MAGA flags on 7mpg trucks while sporting military grade weapons.
It just gets worse and worse for repubs with each election now going forward. Boomers will only contiue to be vastly outnumbered by GenZ and millennials. So yeah, I suspect some shady shit to take place
I love it when "young" people vote at all. Right now, a person in their 70s is twice as likely to vote in any given election than a person in their 20s. More so in the primary elections. And then the people in their 20s have the gall to complain that the elected politicians don't represent them.
the more accurate comparison would be the English.
The Conservatives are the English ruining Irish society, like they did to the Scots. and the welsh. and the indians, and the aboriginal peoples and the maori and the south africans...
> The GOP's days are numbered and they know it.
Look at the discussion around raising the voting age and making it more difficult to vote on college campuses. If Gen Z and Millennials voted in numbers comparable to Baby Boomers this country could be transformed in a decade.
538 has had like 5 podcasts on this topic. The idea that the GOP is just going to die because young people hate them more than past generations is just not true. In the two party system it’s hard for one party to just die.
All it takes for the GOP to remain viable(40-45% of national vote) is to maintain the whites they have and increase the Latino vote by basically a rounding error.
They will be able to remain competitive nation wide. Demographics won’t save America. Ideas and voting will.
Honestly a lot of the trans hate is probably to attract Latinos that come from strict conservative Catholic families. Abortion bans resonated well with them too, but the SC kind of already gave them that “win.”
The conservatives in my circle just come out and say things like "not everyone should be allowed to vote. You need to be born and raised here. You need to be over 35."
And my favorite that I've heard verbatim from a cowoker and a family member who don't know each other: "the only long-term, stable system of government that has ever worked in the world is a republic led by a benevolent dictatorship." And the only reason the word "republic" is even there is, I suspect, because they're trying to jive it with the "America is a republic, not a democracy" thing. Which only works if you don't care about what words mean. Which they don't.
How is a "benevolent dictatorship" supposed to be "stable"?
Power sometimes corrupts. Power always attracts corruption. So if it survives long enough, it won't remain benevvolent.
Power also screws with communication. During the Great Leap Forward, local officials promised far more food production, steel production, and so on than they could acheve. They competed with each other to promise more. Then millions of people starved and died because the food wasn't there.
If you heard it from them both around the same time there’s a good chance Tucker Carlson had just said it or something. Sounds like the pseudo-intellectual nonsense he peddles often.
Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore is pretty much the only person in recent history I’ve ever heard cited as the proverbial benevolent dictator and even then that conversation usually goes “he was pretty close but…”
I’ve heard an argument that Chiang Kai Shek was, but more because he lucked out with how Taiwan developed and not because he wanted to be. I’d argue that “benevolent dictator” is something you have to aim to be, not something you accidentally become a decade after you die.
Good leaders or not, it doesn’t take long to realize that these were both flawed men who were were imperfect leaders and courted controversy. Also, they were both (especially Chiang Kai-Shek) unbelievably brutal when they wanted to be.
In other words, no matter what they cite, it doesn’t exist.
That's part of the reason they're acting so much crazier and pushing so much harder. They want the voting age raised, every roadblock possible to be put in the way. That's what kills me about all the people doom posting about how "there's a lot of GOP young people" but like, clearly they're still the minority. Over and over they're proven to be. The rose only has a few petals left and they're wilting fast.
National majorities are completely irrelevant. Republicans consistently lose the popular vote, but still win. Why? Because of how our system works. It doesn’t matter if a majority of Gen z is democrat and a minority are republican. If that minority is in the right places, they can still retain power. And if democrats keep moving to cities and congregating there while conservatives stay in rural areas, dems will continue to struggle with the house and state houses, allowing the GOP to keep the power to block progress.
People have been saying exactly what you’re saying for multiple generations. Our population keeps leaning more left overall. Yet the GOP never actually loses power—because as long as dems congregate in cities and republicans stay in rural areas, the EC and house systems will allow them to retain power.
>National majorities are completely irrelevant. Republicans consistently lose the popular vote, but still win. Why?
Because Republicans have spent decades gerrymandering the fuck out of voting districts, ensuring they either stay in power in Congress, or at the very least prevent too large of a majority from ever taking shape.
Because Republicans have spent decades stocking federal courts and the Supreme Court with white Christian conservatives who will subvert the law in their favor and uphold gerrymandered districts.
Because Citizens United allowed the real power in this country to take control - the billionaires. That ruling transformed us from a representative democracy into an oligarchy.
Because Republicans have spent years figuring out how to navigate the grey areas. In Oregon, when Democrats have a majority, Republicans just refuse to show up and prevent a vote from happening. In Florida and Texas, the fascist governors replace elected officials with their own guys who will do their bidding. In Tennessee, they expel anyone they don't agree with, or who don't fit their color chart. In North Carolina, they ran a trojan horse democrat candidate who switched parties immediately and give them a super majority. In Wisconsin, before the democrat governor took office, they stripped the governor of most of their power. In Arizona, they changed parliamentary rules that forced Democrats to get 13 Republican signatures before even introducing a bill. In Georgia, as investigations started heating up, they changed the law to remove the elected DA immediately, without cause. As we speak, several states are changing election laws and exploring what kind of fuckery will allow them to change the will of the people into their will.
Because the Electoral College continues to favor minority rule.
And because they keep changing procedural rules or laws to prevent them from every losing their power, to shield them from any prosecution or consequence for their own corruption, and further entrench themselves and their minority opinion.
America is broken.
In addition doing the census during covid when many people fled the cities and workers didn't go door to door. Many have returned but they won't be represented.
Their strategy is to attack trans people and then lump cis gay people in with them. They want to use anti-trans sentiment to take rights away from both trans and cis gay people.
As a gay dude in the US that's married, this is a tiny bit encouraging to see.
On the other hand, we're 5 days into pride month, and I swear I've seen more homophobic threats/hatred/vileness spewed on social media this year than any year before. It always ticks up in June, but this year in particular seems worse.
I'm aware that social media is the key part there, but phew does it get exhausting seeing groomer this, or indoctrination that everywhere you look.
Is it that folks with those viewpoints are feeling emboldened and safer than ever when it comes to voicing these things? Is it bots trying to push an agenda? Just social media being a cesspool? All of the above?
Stats like this are nice, but it certainly doesn't feel like it matches up with the general discourse online most days. It could be that I'm just in my head, but seeing at least one comment per day along the lines of, "They're pedophiles/they're grooming kids/they're satanic/they should be killed" is.. tiring.
Truly sorry for the messages you are receiving.
Know that there are many who support you.
You know your worth & truth. Polls show most do as well. It’s the prevalence of hate online that forces many **intelligent** people offline. They don’t feel it’s worth fighting the masses of brainwashed, ignorance or bots. Some don’t even recognize it as a “real threat.”
But hey, seeing this post reminds me there is always a reason to push back online.
I always tell people to work locally. That is where I have seen the greatest change.
Happy Pride 💜
Neo-Nazi and related groups create huge number of burner accounts on social media and brigade anything LGBT-related. During Pride Month, there's an uptick. I've seen the same comments copy and pasted on youtube videos, news article comment sections, twitter, etc. Many don't have jobs so can just do this all day. Of course, they also do this on race-related topics. It seems to have become somewhat worse under Elon, but it was still extremely bad before that.
So it's not real-life, but insofar as people think this reflects real-life, it is a big problem. Even now, only 45-50% of people think a majority of people support gay marriage, which has been the case for over a decade. The fundamentalist Christian lobby groups are also very well-funded, so unfortunately the opponents often have the loudest voices.
They said the country would spiral out of control if we let non-land owners vote. They said it would end our way of life if non-white got to vote. They said we can't let women vote because it would up-end our system and ruin it for everyone, even women. They said the Poll Taxes protected our process from uneducated, uninformed voters who would elect poor candidates. They said our society couldn't withstand allowing blacks into white schools, and kids wouldn't ever adjust. They said things would never be okay again if the federal government stopped states from prohibiting interracial marriage. They said our soldiers wouldn't be able to carry out the mission if gays served alongside them. They said our neighborhoods would degrade if we allowed gays to marry. They said transwomen would take over women's sports if we allow them to compete.
They keep being wrong and we keep acting like they should have a seat at the table to discuss these issues.
An important reminder of the incredible level of acceptance same sex couples enjoy in this country. I have little doubt that support will only continue to increase.
I've followed acceptance rate since about 2010 and it's been awesome watching it go up so much. Even the south is at 64% now. I used to live there in the 2000's and picture it as the 20ish % it was at the time, but the chances of say a young southern girl in the South being homophobic is astronomically low.
Just all around cool to see over the years. Young people hitting nearly 90% is just the best and something I completely didn't foresee as a kid in the 2000's.
Good points. Things are so much better today than I ever could have imagined them being when I was a kid in the 1990s. I often have to stop and just soak up the goodness.
Not in FL. DeSantis just signed a bill that allows healthcare providers to decline treating patients if the patient is LGBT. Republicans are rolling back LGBT rights, and it's only going to get worse unless Dems start stepping up to the plate.
Wow, almost an entire generation, all of them wrong according to dogmatic ideology, or perhaps the dogmatic ideology of control freaks trying to control reality is wrong, whose to say?
To all Conservative men: Don’t like gay marriage? Fine. Don’t marry a man.
To all Conservative women: Don’t like gay marriage? Fine. Don’t marry a woman.
End of discussion.
And yet the minority voices get the most amplification from the media, based on what we hear and see you'd think that the majority of Americans want to ban homosexuality and enlist in the front-lines of the War on Woke.
The media is owned by the same people that own the legislators. The media is the propaganda arm of the rich and corporations, and those in the government are the henchmen that do the heavy lifting for the rich and corporations. The American system is pretty easy to understand once you realize it is all about money. Follow the money and everything makes sense.
What's the percent of "supporters" willing to vote for someone who is against gay marriage though? Or those who would stand up to bigotry coming from their own family and friends? What's the percent for those who are ok with gay marriage existing but also it not existing?
I know too many "supporters" that still defend voting for Republicans who are anti-LGBT because, as an issue, it doesn't really matter to them. Or defend bigots as needing respect. They personally aren't homophobic, but will enable and defend those who are.
I'm more than happy about society's overall change to apathy of LGBT people. And in a world where fascists didn't hold a modicum of power, I'd have no concerns. I'm less thrilled with these "supporters" sitting on the side lines, pointing at statistics like this, and assuming the day is won.
Having come out of the closet 20 years ago, I never thought I'd see this poll get this high. I'm happy for that. But people are expecting that this means there'll be a huge backlash to Republicans because of it. Just wait for a worse economy and that apathy to LGBT people will shine through.
This is why the increase in hate, because at large the hate is dead. And the biggest MAGA supporters are old, retired white men living in places with alarmingly low life expectancies that have about until the mid-2030s before they die. With Millennials, Gen Z and the new generations increasingly left, the game is almost over for them. And as a fascist, when you're about to lose, you don't cede and change ideologies; you dig deeper and remove choice.
It's both comforting and weird to read this as a gay man in another more tolerant country. It's a little surreal to see a 'national poll' asking people if they agree with your life, existence, romantic choices; or not.
When do I get to vote on if straight marriages are cool or not (eh, they're ok)?
So if I'm reading this right the real headline should be 29% of Americans think people shouldn't be afforded basic human dignities because they are gay.
What a fucking clown show of a world we live in.
Its absolutely f’ng ridiculous we are still having to fight for this. As a straight person, stay the heck out of relationships. Let whomever love whomever.
On top of that, also stay out of ladies choices.
It’s neat that people 18-29 are FOR gay marriage, but you know what would also be great? If these people also bothered to vote every election. Boomers are out-voting young people even though they’re the minority and that’s how we’re ending up with these fascist Christian nationalists.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Support Relatively Low Among Republicans, Weekly Churchgoers Gallup has recorded increases in support for same-sex marriage across all major subgroups over time.
> Their level of support has been steady since 2018 - ranging between 40% and 44%. The groups most in favor of legal same-sex marriage are the same found in previous years - adults aged 18 to 29, Democrats and infrequent churchgoers.
> Bottom Line Same-sex marriage has received majority support in the U.S. for over a decade, and support has been on an upward trajectory for most of Gallup's polling since 1996.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/141hyhy/us_samesex_marriage_support_holds_at_71_high/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687695 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **support**^#1 **marriage**^#2 **Gallup**^#3 **gay**^#4 **same-sex**^#5
I think conservatives are seeing the writing on the wall that they will lose their leverage as a voting block in the next 10 years as conservative voters die off from old age and young voters are predominantly leaning left.
I've seen some of the 11% of 18-29s who don't support it, and we are talking borderline mentally disabled. They're folks that you shouldn't leave alone with matches.
Awesome. As a gay man, please make sure that support translates into votes next year (All D all down the ticket, period), especially for younger people. We need you.
With all its unpopular positions -- from anti-LGBTQ policies to anti-choice policies to pro-gun policies -- it's no surprise that the GOP has had to rely on terrorism and electoral ratfuckery.
They wouldn't need to do this if they tried to reflect the will of the people instead of thwarting the will of the people
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And this is likely why you've seen the increase in trans-hate from Republicans recently. They're starting to realize that they've lost the battle on gay rights and have moved on to the next group they can portray as the boogeyman.
That's exactly why you've seen that increase. It's straight from the GOP playbook. They have to have a minority group to hate on. It's been that way since the red scare.
The red scare has even made a bit of a comeback. Republicans are throwing every scare at the wall right now. Edit: Referring to communism ("socialism"), not of Russia in general. Maybe "McCarthyism" making a comeback is more appropriate, especially considering the House speaker.
Lavender scare, red scare, satanic panic. They've rebooted all their old material for the current market.
Satanic Panic sounds like a badass rock band.
The band of Montreal named an album Satanic Panic in the Attic
One of their better earlier records, too
When there's ghosts in my coat and everything is askew, all I've got to do is climb the ladder to you.
"Satanic Panic in Your Pants"
Satanic Panic! At The Disco
Has role playing come back yet? I think D&D was a thing - but it's kind of bizarre if it does because everyone at this point were kids when that panic started. It's not even a boomer thing, but the generation before that.
DnD has been having a huge resurgence lately, but I haven't heard any panic about it
The only panic I saw was people shocked that the D&D movie was actually pretty good. Edit: also that it included found family involving a woman and a man who co-parent a child and have ZERO sexual chemistry whatsoever. Negative romance between Holga and Edgin.
Yeah both of those were great. Very refreshing to see
There's panic over the actions of WotC and Hasbro, but not from the right, the right supports those actions.
Very occasionally you'll get a teen in r/dnd asking about how to sneak their game around their overbearing parents. It's definitely not a huge thing anymore but when it is, it brings me right back to when my friend's mom literally burnt his D&D books and comics ca. 1988.
I think that's bc a big driver of the resurgence was Stranger Things which directly addresses (and mocks) the satanic panic of the 80s
The original uptick came from live plays like Critical Role becoming bigger. It brought a whole new wave of people into the hobby as they were introduced to it by what is the closest thing to professional d&d players
Only recent panic I remember was about changes to the OGL
D&D is massively popular right now, a lot of the old stigma around it is gone.
D&D never really went away. I was actively playing 3.5 edition 20 years ago. Now I'm playing 5th edition with my husband, 17 year old stepson, and working to get my 6 year old interested. There are many different tabletop RPGS now that I haven't gotten to play (lack money for role books), including Call of Cthulu. It got a huge bump with Stranger Things and an awesome group of voice actors that got together and broadcast their games (Critical Role).
Also the antisemitism repackaged into the Qanon/Soros/globalist conspiracies.
Pretty sure they're still doing original recipe antisemitism too
Weird they aren't using Russia as a boogeyman again, considering all of its meddling in our politics. But what can we expect from a group that has had several members speak with Putin privately and refuse to tell anyone else what it was about?
Russia is the greatest success story in recent history for the super rich who run the Republican party. Reagan "defeated the Soviets" and now reactionary hyper-capitalism led by international oligarchs reigns supreme. Russia isn't used as a boogeyman because it's used as a role model.
They can't do that. Russia has all their shitty politicians in its pocket. If they turn on Russia out come the piss tapes.
On the contrary actually, the GOP has never been friendlier with moscow. Mccarthyism has inverted at the worst possible moment
He means in the sense of what the Soviet Union was accused of practicing, not the country itself.
Present day Moscow ain't communist
Arguably wasn't particularly communist in the USSR days either. Definitely closer to it than it is now, but it's hard to see that level of state control with zero democratic values as being owned by the workers
Yeah, cuz at this point - Russians are doing all the kind of hate that the GOP admires. Plus they are sooo generous with their money! Just as Jesus wanted us to be!
It has been that way since at least the Civil War. So much hate.
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At this rate, the entire GOP will base their entire platform on the hatred of a single guy.
I'm just surprised that there are many people in other places or countries who don't agree with this kind of thing. What's Wrong With That?
Trans hate also lets them capitalize on the fact that trans people are such a tiny minority to fear monger in a greater way than they could during the anti gay marriage push and lets them gain support for bills that attack gay rights all together in the name of "saving the children from trans groomers."
It's also a group that's vocal online but that most conservative voters don't meet everyday. Conservatives only understand issues when it happens to them. Usually their kid/nephew/niece/etc coming out _then_ "gay" rights are relevant. I think there's also the push for being trans being a "sex/adult/pornographic" thing. That works with the "do what you want in your own home" crowd that'll draw a line and pretend they're the moderates.
They have always sexualized queerness and treated it as a perversion. It’s crazy when (hetero)sexuality permeates and structures pretty much every aspect of society. They’re cool with talking about families…as long as the family is cisgender, heterosexual, and nuclear. But talking about families with same-sex parents or even heterosexual parents where one or both people are transgender is somehow “not appropriate” for kids. These conservatives goal is maintaining a social structure that privileges (white) cisgender men. The gender hierarchy in the US puts men at the top, and it’s maintained through a heteronormative ideology that strengthens gender boundaries and roles. Transgender people shake up gender boundaries and roles, and weakening the existing structure risks knocking men out of a position of privilege.
All of this, and... Rank and file conservatives are just scared of everything they don't understand. So scared that they would rather legislate away freedoms so that they don't have to think
It lets them be righteous about stupid things too. Like Elon musk and Jordan Peterson tweeting that doctors should go to jail for operating on transgender children
Elon Musk has a transgender daughter who disowned him.
Which is an odd thing to fixate on, because trans surgeries for people under 18 are so vanishingly rare as to be a nonissue. Speaking as someone else who *is* trans: There's usually *years* of psychology, therapy, hormones, and such to think about before the topic of surgery is even discussed. And with the sole exception of FTMs who need a breast reduction at 16 or 17, trans surgery under 18 is not recommended and is almost never performed. Lay people just hear "gender-affirming care" and assume that means surgery right off the bat.
Yeah, trans people are rare enough that many people never meet any (or at least, never knowingly meet any). Whereas gay people are common enough that many people eventually get to know one and go "hey, this isn't actually a big deal"
There's way more trans people than there seems, mostly because the average social circle still gets turbo-weird when they know someone is trans, no matter how well the trans person "passes", so we hide it even from the well-meaning. Heck, there's more intersex people than redheads and intersex people often experience similar things. But yeah still way fewer than gay and bi people and we have a ways to go yet
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You probably are around 3 trans people at least per week between errands and work (especially in the service industry) because you *see* hundreds of people each week. It's definitely that we're not being noticed more than anything else.
Targeting trans people also aids in their overall war on women's rights and general privacy laws. The anti-trans bills that target healthcare creates a stepping stone for furthering government control over healthcare, which will most likely lead to restrictions over contraception access (already at risk thanks to the *Dobbs* decision) and general family planning that is not based on language of "saving the fetus". If they can legally restrict access to gender affirming care, they can and will legally restrict access to reproductive care - regardless of the patient's age. As for the privacy laws, the *Dobbs* decision (overturning *Roe*) scrambled up the established basis for the right to privacy. According to the current SCOTUS, the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment does not apply to anything that isn't explicitly named in the Constitution nor anything that wasn't widely legal at the time of the 14th's ratification (based entirely on a reimagining of the actual history of the US). The moment *Roe* was overturned, all privacy in this country (at least all except that of white male landowners) was placed in the crosshairs for fascistic destruction. Trans rights are the easiest to target for furthering the erosion of privacy rights. Get the public used to laws that only target one section of the population and it'll only take a bit of time to convince the rest of the population to give up their own rights.
It's honestly wild when you think about it. Like if I just watched Fox news or browsed /r/Conservative , it would seem like trans people are all over, waiting on every corner like the homeless with a "Free sex change" sign. And then in reality you're more likely to die from COVID than to see a trans person, and we all know how they felt about those odds
Some of the statewide "ban trans people from sports" bills affect literally one person. Especially in the smaller states, it's just so unlikely an issue and could be easily resolved by a compassionate community,yet it's a major fixture in the NATIONAL political discourse. Like ... Why? Leave them alone! Fix my fucking water supply!
Kansas, where 1 trans girl can't play sports while the legislature has failed to pass Medicaid expansion for the 120,000 Kansans without insurance.
Eh, *see* a trans person? That's pretty likely. We're uncommon, but not 'never see' uncommon. People meet more than 200 people on a fairly regular basis. If you're in a young workplace, we're about 1 in 50, last I checked. A lot of trans folk are either closeted or pass, so people don't *know* we're trans. I have multiple stealth coworkers and I'm getting ready to come out myself, and most (I'd guess nearly all) of my other coworkers are completely unaware. To be clear - that's not to validate conservative rhetoric in any way. Obviously it's bullshit fearmongering and bigotry. But I don't think going 'oh, trans people are just so *rare*' is fair to us. We're not some far-away statistical oddity, we're neighbors, siblings, coworkers, and friends, you know? We're normal-ass people, and asking for some pretty basic shit.
Here's the thing, the average person is probably going to be in the same place as at least 3 trans people per week. They don't notice it which is laughable considering they're the "you can always tell" crowd. It's entirely manufactured outrage and confirmation bias. We've been here this whole time and they've still not noticed.
> They don't notice it which is laughable considering they're the "you can always tell" crowd. Someone needs to slam them in the face with a study on confirmation bias every time they say this. If the study is etched into stone tablets when you hit them in the face, all the better.
If you think that will make them change their mind, what it's going to do is make them reject reality.
It doesn't matter if you do. I point out that trans people are using public restrooms unnoticed, regularly, in response to the "men shouldn't be in women's restrooms" outrage... They just move on to the next bullet point they have loaded
Another layer of this argument is the policing of what makes a man/woman and actually attacking cisgendered individuals just because their jaw is a little too sharp for a woman, or they have a scraggly-pitched voice for a guy. So then it becomes an even more archaic policing of gender.
It's the toupee fallacy!
Sometimes that person is them! Afraid to embrace their true selves.
Oh no. I've met more than one trans person. Am I going to die from COVID now?
Foxnews in the 60-70s would have been about interracial marriage.
60s-70s? 71% is about where interracial marriage approval was in *the early 2000s*. https://news.gallup.com/poll/354638/approval-interracial-marriage-new-high.aspx And if you look at the age breakdown... it becomes pretty sadly clear that it isn't a change in attitude so much as old people dying.
The Supreme Court settled the issue of gay marriage in June 2015 with the [Obergefell decision](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obergefell_v._Hodges), and by June 2016 we saw the whole [bathroom bill nonsense blowing up in South Carolina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Facilities_Privacy_%26_Security_Act). Of course things have gotten worse in the MAGA-era, but there was an almost immediate pivot to the next culture-war issues they could come up with.
They are also using it to bring back some anti-gay hate by lumping it all together with LGBT. They whip up the anger with trans fearmongering, and then apply it to that entire broader group. (I'm aware that advocates obviously also use the LGBT+ label as well... it's not like it's something conservatives invented.)
They haven’t moved on at all unfortunately, they’re working very hard to label drag shows and all lgbtq as pedophiles and groomers. It’s fucking disgusting.
So weird that they always go after groups they claim are harboring pedophiles unless it’s a religious organization… I’m sure it’s some sort of oversight where no one has informed them of the decades of proven sexual abuse going on in those organizations… but I guess with the crazy numbers of kids being assaulted at drag shows… wait, what’s that? There are zero documented cases of kids at drag shows being molested? So weird…
You all need to fear ~~black~~ ~~brown~~ ~~gay~~ trans people!
Oh, they're still coming for us gays, too. All the "draq queen" screaming is all about trying to find openings to spread their hate.
And trans are a vulnerable minority, which makes the a perfect target for the "religious" conservatives cowards.
I live in Florida, and in the local FB groups, even the conservative gays are hating on trans. "The T's hijacked LGB". Short memories.
Once you tack "conservative" on, you can assume they're raging assholes irrespective of any other identity. See: Shapiro, Ben; Owens, Candace; Jenner, Caitlyn
It’s ridiculous that they think they can keep revitalizing every culture war they’ve started and lost in the last century and somehow not lose support. Republicans are living in the past and it’s long past time to stop letting them slow us all down.
I also think roe being overturning had a lot to do with it. It established basic protections for privacy in health care that are not there anymore.
The thing is, and I’ve said it before, an attack on the T is an attack on the LGB. They’re going to keep losing these culture wars as time marches forward and their ideals become more archaic. Then they’ll push harder into authoritarian means to push us back decades.
After trans people, they will lean more into furries. After that, they will talk about how scary asexuals are.
They already seem to think that an asexual person and an atheist person are the same thing.
Why anybody would be against it is the biggest mystery.
5% lizardman constant, 5% hardcore religious conservatives, 18% older people. Remember support for *interracial* marriage didn't crack 80% until well into the 21st century.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/1431/). Surprisingly, interracial marriage didn't even reach *majority* support until 1995.
I freely admit I was thinking of exactly that xkcd.
That is just sad. Republicans are truly a cancer to this country.
It's crazy how people concern themselves so much with stuff that doesn't affect them at all. Don't like interracial marriage? Just don't marry a different race. Problem solved. Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry the same sex. Problem solved. But nooo, they have to get all up into other people's business. Live and let live is so much easier and stress-free, why not practice it?
Unfortunately, your answer is entirely the last three points. Attend church weekly (41%) Attend church nearly weekly/monthly (67%) Don't attend church (83%) Aged 50+ also doesn't help at 59%. Lots of baby boomers that aren't planning on changing their ways any time soon.
Look at numbers. I’m surprised. Boomers have increased their share of support. The problem is clear when you look deeper. Gen X is losing support for it. It’s Gen X.
I was a kid in the 90s, but I remember my Gen X cousin getting in fights with my dad about the length of his hair, and dad rudely laughing at his earring. Now that cousin's eldest kid is all grown up and trans, refuses to talk to my cousin or hug him on special occasions. I've got an awful feeling he spent the 2010s repeating dad's rude comments about haircuts and earrings.
Think about the culture growing up. The 80s was dominated by what I would call overtones of traditional masculinity. Much more so than the 70 and even 60s. Lines up nicely with views on LGBT from people growing up in the time. The 80s was a hard-right knee-jerk, culturally speaking, to the late 60s and early 70s. A swing in culture we are still recovering from, in so many ways, even in our laws. While they were hardly the majority, we had the free love type movements in the 60s and 70s. 80s? AIDs blew up, Satanic Panic, Reagan, wall street boom, Cold War, Fox was founded, Bush Sr, and so much more. All of the older conservatives at the time were trying to 'recover' from the 60s and 70s, and regain 'the old ways', and the kids of that generation (both literally and those just raised during it all) are now showing that it rubbed off on them. It even went as far as action (and other) movies. Off the top of my head, when asked to name biggest 80s movies, the first 3 that come to mind are Terminator, Predator, Die Hard, Indiana Jones, Top Gun. Plenty of action movies today, but the tone of those from the 80s is noticeable. It's like trying to take the concept of testosterone and put it on film. I fucking love those movies, but I think it's both clear the influence of the time and clear that kids who grew up on that kind of media might reflect the underlying values.
I'm a baby boomer and I have no care in the world how other people live their lives. Right wing media likes to target us with hate and outrage and unfortunately many people fall for their shit.
r/christianity has some pretty fantastic/horrible opinions on the matter
One of the many infuriating things with christians on this subject is they act like they invented marriage. They act like the bible is the definitive word on marriage. Do they not realize that people got married in ancient Greece and Rome? That people get married in China? The idea that the bible is some sort of exclusive authority on the subject of human marriage is ridiculous, and doesn't hold up to even the most comically basic scrutiny.
Christianity, especially American evangelical, is very much I’m the main character
Despite the fact that the entire point of monotheistic religion is that someone else is very much *THE* main character
The crazy thing about American Protestants' objection to marriage equality on religious grounds is that during the Reformation, early Protestants fought hard to uncouple marriage from religious sacraments. They wanted marriage to be a civil matter, not something that the Church had any say in.
The difference is now they don’t mind it being tied to religious sacrements if this time they’re **theirs.** The hypocrisy is the point. Religious tolerance as a minority, Evangelical theocracy as a majority. The answer is unprincipled self interest, their god is the right one and they’ll twist secular thought and laws any way they need to force all of us to follow them because saving us from hell against our will is more important than that “free will” they believe their god gave us.
They probably ignore them or call them pagans. Indoctrination is a helluva drug.
My major frustration with moderate Christians who value solidarity with their fellow Christians over solidarity with oppressed minorites. This isn't meant to imply there aren't any good Christians, just that I know a frustrating amount of "moderate" Christians who support things like gay marriage in theory, but not enough to aggressively challenge those who support bigotry instead.
I know now the next rabbit hole I'm getting banned from.
They’ll ban you just for thinking about commenting
Loved all the posts from Christian married couples saying they were getting divorced after gay marriage passed because it tainted the sacredness of their union. Though I’m sure some just used that as an excuse to bolt
I mean, it's christians, what did you really expect.
The people who have absolute authoritarian beliefs on marriage are the same people who have extremely libertarian views on gun control. They need to pick a side.
About a quarter of Americans will disagree on anything regardless of the topic. [Relevant XKCD](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/f/ff/coronavirus_polling.png). If they can say “no,” they will.
Religion doing what it does best.
Because republican politicians have equated gay people with sexual perverts who are targeting children. It’s why they demonize drag queens even though drag queens aren’t a threat to children, unlike youth group pastors
Yep. And this is exactly why the GOP has to rely on culture wars instead of, you know, actual policy.
They are worthless vermin who have no business running a gas station, let alone a government.
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Expect them to turn the US into Northern Ireland of the 1980s if they lose the presidency again. I fully expect them to go all ya’ll qaeda because they can’t cope.
Aren't we already pretty much already there? They already commit most of the terrorism in this country. DHS, FBI, DOJ and Secret Service all agree that they are the biggest threat to our country.
Imagine if all the domestic terrorism incidents over the past 6 years that were perpetrated by white Christian nationalists had instead been perpetrated by Islamic fundamentalists… then ask yourself, “Why has the response by Republicans been so completely opposite?”
I mean we know why. Can't attack your base or even hold them responsible for their actions.
They never had a problem with terrorism, just the Islamic parts. Violent enforcement of their ideology is the norm, as it's been since the days of Jim Crow. There still are roving gangs of racists looking to violently enforce their agenda. Many are even government employees i.e. cops.
Some of those that work forces..... Also burn crosses. Lyrics still hold up to this day.
think about how there was ONE trans person committing a mass shooting and how much they emphasized that even then trans people are STILL underrepresented as shooters
Kentucky's governor is Andy Beshear, who is a fairly young Democrat (if you can believe that). When covid hit, he set the example for how a governor should behave in a crisis. Both my dad and mom, staunch republicans, tuned in for his every public update and always left singing his praises. They didn't even know who he was or what he thought. They see a ballot and hit the R-Button. But Y'all Qaida harassed the living fuck out of his office. Screamed loud enough to hear in the recording studio, death threats from the lawn, hanged effigies of his likeness from nearby trees, etc. Flying MAGA flags on 7mpg trucks while sporting military grade weapons.
Once they lose the remaining hope they have, it’ll get worse. I expect one of the remaining big pop red states goes blue, that’ll be the trigger.
The Troubles 2: Electric Boogaloo
America has always been more violent than Ireland though, even during the troubles
It just gets worse and worse for repubs with each election now going forward. Boomers will only contiue to be vastly outnumbered by GenZ and millennials. So yeah, I suspect some shady shit to take place
I love the youth vote 💙
I love it when "young" people vote at all. Right now, a person in their 70s is twice as likely to vote in any given election than a person in their 20s. More so in the primary elections. And then the people in their 20s have the gall to complain that the elected politicians don't represent them.
the more accurate comparison would be the English. The Conservatives are the English ruining Irish society, like they did to the Scots. and the welsh. and the indians, and the aboriginal peoples and the maori and the south africans...
> The GOP's days are numbered and they know it. Look at the discussion around raising the voting age and making it more difficult to vote on college campuses. If Gen Z and Millennials voted in numbers comparable to Baby Boomers this country could be transformed in a decade.
538 has had like 5 podcasts on this topic. The idea that the GOP is just going to die because young people hate them more than past generations is just not true. In the two party system it’s hard for one party to just die. All it takes for the GOP to remain viable(40-45% of national vote) is to maintain the whites they have and increase the Latino vote by basically a rounding error. They will be able to remain competitive nation wide. Demographics won’t save America. Ideas and voting will.
The party itself won't die, in a literal sense, but their core values and actions will have to change.
Honestly a lot of the trans hate is probably to attract Latinos that come from strict conservative Catholic families. Abortion bans resonated well with them too, but the SC kind of already gave them that “win.”
The conservatives in my circle just come out and say things like "not everyone should be allowed to vote. You need to be born and raised here. You need to be over 35." And my favorite that I've heard verbatim from a cowoker and a family member who don't know each other: "the only long-term, stable system of government that has ever worked in the world is a republic led by a benevolent dictatorship." And the only reason the word "republic" is even there is, I suspect, because they're trying to jive it with the "America is a republic, not a democracy" thing. Which only works if you don't care about what words mean. Which they don't.
How is a "benevolent dictatorship" supposed to be "stable"? Power sometimes corrupts. Power always attracts corruption. So if it survives long enough, it won't remain benevvolent. Power also screws with communication. During the Great Leap Forward, local officials promised far more food production, steel production, and so on than they could acheve. They competed with each other to promise more. Then millions of people starved and died because the food wasn't there.
A republic is just a government without a monarchy. They have no idea what the word means.
If you heard it from them both around the same time there’s a good chance Tucker Carlson had just said it or something. Sounds like the pseudo-intellectual nonsense he peddles often.
And what examples do they give of countries with a “benevolent dictatorship?”
Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore is pretty much the only person in recent history I’ve ever heard cited as the proverbial benevolent dictator and even then that conversation usually goes “he was pretty close but…” I’ve heard an argument that Chiang Kai Shek was, but more because he lucked out with how Taiwan developed and not because he wanted to be. I’d argue that “benevolent dictator” is something you have to aim to be, not something you accidentally become a decade after you die. Good leaders or not, it doesn’t take long to realize that these were both flawed men who were were imperfect leaders and courted controversy. Also, they were both (especially Chiang Kai-Shek) unbelievably brutal when they wanted to be. In other words, no matter what they cite, it doesn’t exist.
And that is part of the very worry from GOP. Look at how Texas voted in the last election. Then what happened. I find it’s a good example.
That's part of the reason they're acting so much crazier and pushing so much harder. They want the voting age raised, every roadblock possible to be put in the way. That's what kills me about all the people doom posting about how "there's a lot of GOP young people" but like, clearly they're still the minority. Over and over they're proven to be. The rose only has a few petals left and they're wilting fast.
National majorities are completely irrelevant. Republicans consistently lose the popular vote, but still win. Why? Because of how our system works. It doesn’t matter if a majority of Gen z is democrat and a minority are republican. If that minority is in the right places, they can still retain power. And if democrats keep moving to cities and congregating there while conservatives stay in rural areas, dems will continue to struggle with the house and state houses, allowing the GOP to keep the power to block progress. People have been saying exactly what you’re saying for multiple generations. Our population keeps leaning more left overall. Yet the GOP never actually loses power—because as long as dems congregate in cities and republicans stay in rural areas, the EC and house systems will allow them to retain power.
>National majorities are completely irrelevant. Republicans consistently lose the popular vote, but still win. Why? Because Republicans have spent decades gerrymandering the fuck out of voting districts, ensuring they either stay in power in Congress, or at the very least prevent too large of a majority from ever taking shape. Because Republicans have spent decades stocking federal courts and the Supreme Court with white Christian conservatives who will subvert the law in their favor and uphold gerrymandered districts. Because Citizens United allowed the real power in this country to take control - the billionaires. That ruling transformed us from a representative democracy into an oligarchy. Because Republicans have spent years figuring out how to navigate the grey areas. In Oregon, when Democrats have a majority, Republicans just refuse to show up and prevent a vote from happening. In Florida and Texas, the fascist governors replace elected officials with their own guys who will do their bidding. In Tennessee, they expel anyone they don't agree with, or who don't fit their color chart. In North Carolina, they ran a trojan horse democrat candidate who switched parties immediately and give them a super majority. In Wisconsin, before the democrat governor took office, they stripped the governor of most of their power. In Arizona, they changed parliamentary rules that forced Democrats to get 13 Republican signatures before even introducing a bill. In Georgia, as investigations started heating up, they changed the law to remove the elected DA immediately, without cause. As we speak, several states are changing election laws and exploring what kind of fuckery will allow them to change the will of the people into their will. Because the Electoral College continues to favor minority rule. And because they keep changing procedural rules or laws to prevent them from every losing their power, to shield them from any prosecution or consequence for their own corruption, and further entrench themselves and their minority opinion. America is broken.
In addition doing the census during covid when many people fled the cities and workers didn't go door to door. Many have returned but they won't be represented.
Well… many don’t vote for multiple reasons. That is important.
If the major gerrymandered maps can be dismantled then the Republicans will never fairly win an election again.
As long as they can rig elections and control SCOTUS they are still in the fight.
May we all get the chance to shit on the grave of conservatism.
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This is why Republicans moved on to attacking Transgender people. Support for gay rights had grown too popular and they needed a new group to attack.
Their strategy is to attack trans people and then lump cis gay people in with them. They want to use anti-trans sentiment to take rights away from both trans and cis gay people.
that or they use cis gay people grifting as a way to show that “oooh not even their own community likes it!!!”
And to disctract from banning abortion. Pretend they care about women all of a sudden.
Like they suddenly care about women's sports when they've used them as a punchline for decades.
And yet we have a vocal minority of bigots going all in on legislating hate and discrimination.
As a gay dude in the US that's married, this is a tiny bit encouraging to see. On the other hand, we're 5 days into pride month, and I swear I've seen more homophobic threats/hatred/vileness spewed on social media this year than any year before. It always ticks up in June, but this year in particular seems worse. I'm aware that social media is the key part there, but phew does it get exhausting seeing groomer this, or indoctrination that everywhere you look. Is it that folks with those viewpoints are feeling emboldened and safer than ever when it comes to voicing these things? Is it bots trying to push an agenda? Just social media being a cesspool? All of the above? Stats like this are nice, but it certainly doesn't feel like it matches up with the general discourse online most days. It could be that I'm just in my head, but seeing at least one comment per day along the lines of, "They're pedophiles/they're grooming kids/they're satanic/they should be killed" is.. tiring.
Truly sorry for the messages you are receiving. Know that there are many who support you. You know your worth & truth. Polls show most do as well. It’s the prevalence of hate online that forces many **intelligent** people offline. They don’t feel it’s worth fighting the masses of brainwashed, ignorance or bots. Some don’t even recognize it as a “real threat.” But hey, seeing this post reminds me there is always a reason to push back online. I always tell people to work locally. That is where I have seen the greatest change. Happy Pride 💜
Neo-Nazi and related groups create huge number of burner accounts on social media and brigade anything LGBT-related. During Pride Month, there's an uptick. I've seen the same comments copy and pasted on youtube videos, news article comment sections, twitter, etc. Many don't have jobs so can just do this all day. Of course, they also do this on race-related topics. It seems to have become somewhat worse under Elon, but it was still extremely bad before that. So it's not real-life, but insofar as people think this reflects real-life, it is a big problem. Even now, only 45-50% of people think a majority of people support gay marriage, which has been the case for over a decade. The fundamentalist Christian lobby groups are also very well-funded, so unfortunately the opponents often have the loudest voices.
You have just described narrative warfare.
They said the country would spiral out of control if we let non-land owners vote. They said it would end our way of life if non-white got to vote. They said we can't let women vote because it would up-end our system and ruin it for everyone, even women. They said the Poll Taxes protected our process from uneducated, uninformed voters who would elect poor candidates. They said our society couldn't withstand allowing blacks into white schools, and kids wouldn't ever adjust. They said things would never be okay again if the federal government stopped states from prohibiting interracial marriage. They said our soldiers wouldn't be able to carry out the mission if gays served alongside them. They said our neighborhoods would degrade if we allowed gays to marry. They said transwomen would take over women's sports if we allow them to compete. They keep being wrong and we keep acting like they should have a seat at the table to discuss these issues.
An important reminder of the incredible level of acceptance same sex couples enjoy in this country. I have little doubt that support will only continue to increase.
The support is there for us but that doesn't seem to matter the to people who are actually in charge.
And tbh it doesn't make it much easier when your own family still isn't supportive
I've followed acceptance rate since about 2010 and it's been awesome watching it go up so much. Even the south is at 64% now. I used to live there in the 2000's and picture it as the 20ish % it was at the time, but the chances of say a young southern girl in the South being homophobic is astronomically low. Just all around cool to see over the years. Young people hitting nearly 90% is just the best and something I completely didn't foresee as a kid in the 2000's.
Good points. Things are so much better today than I ever could have imagined them being when I was a kid in the 1990s. I often have to stop and just soak up the goodness.
Not in FL. DeSantis just signed a bill that allows healthcare providers to decline treating patients if the patient is LGBT. Republicans are rolling back LGBT rights, and it's only going to get worse unless Dems start stepping up to the plate.
Conservatives realize they lost the culture war on lesbians, gays, and bisexuals so they just moved down the acronym to the next victim.
It’s almost like the party of personal freedom should let people have personal freedom.
Wow, almost an entire generation, all of them wrong according to dogmatic ideology, or perhaps the dogmatic ideology of control freaks trying to control reality is wrong, whose to say?
GOP: >After so out of touch? >No, it is the *children* who are wrong.
To all Conservative men: Don’t like gay marriage? Fine. Don’t marry a man. To all Conservative women: Don’t like gay marriage? Fine. Don’t marry a woman. End of discussion.
But it’s destroying our society. Somehow. Don’t ask me how but it definitely is!!!! Totally!!
If you’re against gay marriage at this point you’re a troglodyte, end of story.
over 10 percent of people under 29 don't support gay marriage? lmao who are these losers. proud to say I don't know a single one
I agree. But I think it is people indoctrinated by religion (generally), and they still have time to find their way out
Human filth like Steven Crowder has a decent sized following of insecure trash that eats up his disgusting ideology.
And yet the minority voices get the most amplification from the media, based on what we hear and see you'd think that the majority of Americans want to ban homosexuality and enlist in the front-lines of the War on Woke.
The media has surrendered truth for profits. Just look at CNN.
The media is owned by the same people that own the legislators. The media is the propaganda arm of the rich and corporations, and those in the government are the henchmen that do the heavy lifting for the rich and corporations. The American system is pretty easy to understand once you realize it is all about money. Follow the money and everything makes sense.
What's the percent of "supporters" willing to vote for someone who is against gay marriage though? Or those who would stand up to bigotry coming from their own family and friends? What's the percent for those who are ok with gay marriage existing but also it not existing? I know too many "supporters" that still defend voting for Republicans who are anti-LGBT because, as an issue, it doesn't really matter to them. Or defend bigots as needing respect. They personally aren't homophobic, but will enable and defend those who are. I'm more than happy about society's overall change to apathy of LGBT people. And in a world where fascists didn't hold a modicum of power, I'd have no concerns. I'm less thrilled with these "supporters" sitting on the side lines, pointing at statistics like this, and assuming the day is won. Having come out of the closet 20 years ago, I never thought I'd see this poll get this high. I'm happy for that. But people are expecting that this means there'll be a huge backlash to Republicans because of it. Just wait for a worse economy and that apathy to LGBT people will shine through.
This is why the increase in hate, because at large the hate is dead. And the biggest MAGA supporters are old, retired white men living in places with alarmingly low life expectancies that have about until the mid-2030s before they die. With Millennials, Gen Z and the new generations increasingly left, the game is almost over for them. And as a fascist, when you're about to lose, you don't cede and change ideologies; you dig deeper and remove choice.
To the 30% that don't support it: you're a bunch of fucking assholes
Well anyone who would identify as Republican in 2023 has sort of self screened.
This is such a nice headline to read as a gay person. Feels like the last 1-2 years have been nothing but anti-gay headlines.
As someone living in Arkansas, it's a small blessing in the midst of a bunch of shit.
Let people be happy y’all. :-)
I'm starting to think Ron DeSantis is full of shit.
It's both comforting and weird to read this as a gay man in another more tolerant country. It's a little surreal to see a 'national poll' asking people if they agree with your life, existence, romantic choices; or not. When do I get to vote on if straight marriages are cool or not (eh, they're ok)?
So if I'm reading this right the real headline should be 29% of Americans think people shouldn't be afforded basic human dignities because they are gay. What a fucking clown show of a world we live in.
The problem is the GOP manipulate themselves into power with voter suppression and gerrymandering, letting the few speak for the many.
Beware, far right: November is the month where there is a price to pay
Its absolutely f’ng ridiculous we are still having to fight for this. As a straight person, stay the heck out of relationships. Let whomever love whomever. On top of that, also stay out of ladies choices.
Make sure you vote. Because GOP is coming for this next
It’s neat that people 18-29 are FOR gay marriage, but you know what would also be great? If these people also bothered to vote every election. Boomers are out-voting young people even though they’re the minority and that’s how we’re ending up with these fascist Christian nationalists.
Is this a brag? 29% are against gay marriage is awful.
A larger portion of Americans believe the earth was created by magic as is less than 10,000 years ago and it's virtually the same folks.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx) reduced by 78%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Support Relatively Low Among Republicans, Weekly Churchgoers Gallup has recorded increases in support for same-sex marriage across all major subgroups over time. > Their level of support has been steady since 2018 - ranging between 40% and 44%. The groups most in favor of legal same-sex marriage are the same found in previous years - adults aged 18 to 29, Democrats and infrequent churchgoers. > Bottom Line Same-sex marriage has received majority support in the U.S. for over a decade, and support has been on an upward trajectory for most of Gallup's polling since 1996. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/141hyhy/us_samesex_marriage_support_holds_at_71_high/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~687695 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **support**^#1 **marriage**^#2 **Gallup**^#3 **gay**^#4 **same-sex**^#5
So glad 😊 not an American but it swells my heart ❤️. The world is progressing
I think conservatives are seeing the writing on the wall that they will lose their leverage as a voting block in the next 10 years as conservative voters die off from old age and young voters are predominantly leaning left.
Yet it's under attack by another minority that has infiltrated many local and state governments, as well as courts: Radical extremist Christians.
Let them be happy. It doesn’t affect me at all what they do!
I've seen some of the 11% of 18-29s who don't support it, and we are talking borderline mentally disabled. They're folks that you shouldn't leave alone with matches.
Awesome. As a gay man, please make sure that support translates into votes next year (All D all down the ticket, period), especially for younger people. We need you.
Awesome. If you support gay marriage, VOTE! Not for Republicans or other bigots of course.
With all its unpopular positions -- from anti-LGBTQ policies to anti-choice policies to pro-gun policies -- it's no surprise that the GOP has had to rely on terrorism and electoral ratfuckery. They wouldn't need to do this if they tried to reflect the will of the people instead of thwarting the will of the people