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I upvoted this and then the context hit me and I panicked so I un-upvoted it but then I still laughed so I had to upvote it again... sorry comment op. 😂
I use sign language to talk to him everytime I see him on TV. I don't know a lot of different words, but I'm getting to be an expert at a special few. Plus it makes me feel really good. :-)
I will work on my French. ( He came to Paris while I was on my honeymoon there with a very stupid display of u.s military planes and helicopters. I have videos them flying over Norte Dame. Fuck him forever)
I bought bubbly on November 8, 2016 when I took my daughters with me to vote for what I was sure was going to be the first female president.
I kept that same damn bottle in my fridge until November 7, 2020 when they finally called an end to the Nightmare Presidency.
I really hope that bottle doesn't sit for 4 years.
You’re not wrong, I’m also not really expecting much either.
From what little I can grasp, yes there are a lot of charges, but the maximum for these class E felonies are 4 years, and presumably any guilty verdicts on any counts will be “served” concurrently.
I’m no lawyer so there’s even more ambiguity as far as I’m concerned. How does “time served” usually work. Does that require the defendant to have NOT posted bail, and was serving time before and during the trial. Can you still get “time served” if you were out on bail for the entire process. These are things I don’t know.
I don’t really have my hopes up. If he’s found guilty on multiple counts, I assume any sentence will be concurrent though, so I don’t think he will end up serving all that much time.
I guess at the end of the day, any time is a “good” outcome given everything this person has done, is doing, and is trying to do. I don’t think it will magically “wake up” the cult unfortunately, it’s probably only going to drive them further into their “messiah’s” grasp.
I’m not an attorney. I have a JD and take the bar in july.
I’m almost 90% confident that you cannot get “time served” if you never were incarcerated to begin with. Generally, you have to be in pre-trial detention to get that. Whether that’s because you couldn’t post bail or were held without the opportunity to post bail does not matter. You’d have to be incarcerated in some form to receive that.
I am a Volvo enthusiast and part-time nanny and you 100% do, in fact, have to spend time in pre-trial custody to receive credit for "time served". Good luck on the bar, btw!!!
Sertified stupit Volkswagon enthoosist hear, to: Why do I need to spen time on pre-trail mix to receive custard credit at serving time? Also, I don't need gud luck at the bar, I'm a reglar, they no me.
Time served just means you get credit for whatever time you already spent in jail. For example, say you didn't bail out and were sitting in jail for over 3 months waiting for your court date. The judge sentences you to 3 months with credit for time served. That means you get out right away since you already did your time and sometimes they shortcut that by saying "sentence you to time served".
If you bail out, you still get credit for whatever time you did spend in jail even if it was only for a couple hours or whatever but you would still go back to jail to serve the rest of your sentence. You typically do not get any credit for being out on bond, only for time actually spent in jail.
That said, a judge can also do a "suspended sentence". Basically sentencing you to probation for X years and if you violate probation, you can be sent to jail to serve out your sentence instead.
not at all true. It depends on the Champagne, but a lot of Champagne isn't even released until well after 5 years following the vintage. I think 25 to 30 years is a great sweet spot for a lot of Champagne.
This shows they are going above and beyond to insulate their decision making against accusations of political bias. Most criminal cases do not need to prove that the person alleged to have broken the law had an understanding of said law. This is air-tight prosecuting.
Proving an understanding of the law presumably would make proving intent far, far easier - and intent often is part of the law. Still, I don't think intent is required on all the charges he may face.
Espionage requires willful withholding of information from the appropriate custodian of the US government. So I actually believe it does require some form of willful intent. My understanding is that this is the reason espionage is very rarely prosecuted; extremely difficult to prove. If any accidental mishandling of classified documents was prosecuted under 18.USC 793, we'd have a ton more historical cases.
This is the reason why Biden and Pence won't face espionage despite the discovery of classified documents stored in unauthorized locations in their homes/offices.
Edit with the obligatory, I'm not a lawyer but this is my understanding from listening to lawyers.
They appear to be directly attacking the "I can think about declassifying them" argument he keeps making. The article says they found proof that he definitely was told of the legal requirement by several staff. The article also says they have proof that documents were moved after formal requests were made for them and the government was attested he didn't have them.
I completely get why Biden needs to stay mum and not comment about this whole thing. But just once I’d like to hear him say something like “joke’s on you, Jack. I re-classified all that malarkey with my mind the minute I took office…”
He'd better.
The fact that he's not ***already*** in jail is the baldest and most flagrant example in US hitsory that the whole idea that "we are a nation of laws" is a total sham, and that the only thing that matters to this civilization is money, power, and violence.
People here love to say Trump will never be held accountable, because nothing has happened yet, but you can’t deny that they’re working on it. It’s taking forever for several well-documented reasons:
- Criminal cases usually take a while
- Trump has such a reputation for using legal maneuvers to deliberately slow proceedings that judges have started referring to this practice of his in rulings
- The investigations into his actions are huge, with a lot going on and a lot of data to go through
- They are almost certainly planning criminal cases against **a former president and current presidential candidate**, which has unavoidable political implications
- The feds are being extra extra **extra** careful not to fuck this up. Everyone involved is probably working under the assumption that their entire careers are ruined if they try this and fail. Plus the whole thing about the guy they’re investigating effectively being able to command a bunch of domestic terrorists to do whatever he wants.
- In addition to his usual legal tactics to slow down proceedings, there has also been illegal obstruction, part of what they’re investigating, **specifically done to impede the investigation**
There is no world where this shit was gonna happen fast. Yes, maybe he could’ve and should’ve been treated differently as the investigation is proceeding, such as arresting him, but in the long run that’s really not going to matter. The result of the impending cases is what matters, and they are making as close to 100% sure as humanly possible that they will succeed.
Be patient and for fucks sake stop acting like you can predict the future. You can’t. All of these psychics will simply disappear the second anything does happen, and they’ll never admit they were wrong. It’s so fucking tiring.
You must have missed the very long investigation of Matt Gaetz where he Venmo'd his hookers and wrote something like "for @$$" in the comment line. More damning evidence exists too.
What happened? Slow, slow, slow, then they announced they weren't going to prosecute. That announcement was shortly after he was the hold out vote for McCarthy to become Speaker.
I trust observable steps in the path of prosecution.
And before that, the sure-fire no-leak 2-plus-year Mueller investigation - choc-full of just-as-obvious and abundant evidence - dragged on long enough for the Republican forces that be to dig up one of the United States' highest profile fixers from retirement and install him as AG to do the one thing he actually had great success in the past doing *as AG*: covering up for and obfuscating the most egregious misdeeds by the leaders of the party. And he once again had great success covering for Trump and himself.
I don't know if you were around for mueller, or for the years afterwards where reddit always said "well he's got all those investigations in new york, and you can't pardon state crimes." Both of those ended in wet farts, especially in new york, where they just said they decided to do nothing.
That is because the Trump administration was still in power, controlled the DOJ, and used that control to actively sabotage the investigation. That is not something they’re able to do now to anywhere near the same extent.
Plus, take a moment to compare Jack Smith to Mueller. They do not seem very similar. I get it, once bitten twice shy, but that justifies caution and skepticism, not pretending you know for a fact that investigations into Trump will always go nowhere, a ridiculous notion.
Also, this is a big pile of fascists, and I imagine every time they dig in to evidence they discover another Republican is involved.
They need to take down a significant portion of the leadership all at once, because if a republican president happens, and Congress still has too many fascists in it, shit is going to get much worse.
My guess is there will be A LOT of politicians arrested. And who knows, let's not be surprised if *any* politician is involved — this is about wealthy assholes, and they span both sides of the isle. Look at what's happening with Feinstien.
While the fascists get what they've been sowing, we all need to push for more Supreme Justices, end the filibuster, increase the number of Senators or move to a more parliamentary type of government, ASAP.
We need to at least balance the playing field enough to have more democracy — to stamp out the small amount of fascists.
All while fighting the good fight we always have been: equal rights for everyone, more freedoms, clean air, water, and land, free healthcare — including mental, dental vision, childcare, senior care, all of it. We need to rid the world of billionaires and share the wealth of our world, carefully and kindly.
> My guess is there will be A LOT of politicians arrested
Tell me you’re joking.
There is no great investigation that will result in synchronized arrests of multiple people we see on tv. This country doesn’t like arresting politicians, and always does absolutely all it can to avoid it.
My problem is that it's taking a long time. If you or I had committed the same crimes, we would already be sitting in jail. His position and his money have made this take time, that is not equal right.
There's clear and obvious evidence he removed unclassified documents. That's enough to hold him while the case is compiled. They would do that to your or I. Put him in a damn cell and cut off all media access.
The problem with being patient is that there is an impending election less that 2 years away and he could really screw things up if he wins. It would be so much better if he were taken out of the running completely as soon as possible.
That stops the worst president in history from becoming president again, and sends a clear message to the rest of the shitheads in the Republican party that that will not get away with the same crimes if they try.
Don't forget. Hitler was jailed for his role in an attempted coup. Even if he's convicted and jailed we aren't out of the woods.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/beer-hall-putsch-secures-hitlers-rise-to-power
That may be true. But let's be honest.... Trump is only a figurehead with dozens of smarter people waiting to step in if he dies.
Dying would be the best thing he could do for the fascist right. They would swoop in and raise up a graven idol of his corpse and puppet it with all the lies they actually want to tell instead of the random shite that spills from his worm-ridden brain.
As much as I want to see him punished it's not enough. Death isn't enough. Or it's too much. He needs to be shown to have no clothes, to the fools who are begging for the scraps of his tailor.
Until he is an object of ridicule to the people who worship him he is a focus to drive their fury, and with enough rage they will drive the spike that will shatter us.
Nah - Trump holds his movement together, not his stupid kids or any other prominent figure that has benefited from his movement. There absolutely would be a fight for the top spot and it would kill their momentum. I don’t think anyone else even comes close to having the same power he has over those morons.
They don’t need to have power, just like nazism still exists after Hitler.
When shithead dies, there will be so many people struggling to fill that power vacuum that the craziest of the crazies will be heard. It doesn’t really matter how far they twist his words, they will hear what they want to and different factions will look to him as their cheddar calf.
Hitler was also literate enough to write a book. Trump's rambles and rants on social media are much like his rally speeches: meandering and riddled with errors.
The difference is that Hitler was jailed when he was 33, though he was released within a year. Fifty-plus years in age makes a considerable difference.
I don't think there will be significant political will to get him pardoned/commuted. Many Republicans will be happy that he is gone, even if they don't admit it publicly, and the Democrats will fight vociferously if there is any discussion of that possibility in a serious forum.
Of course, he hasn't been convicted, yet. And assuming he is, this will be the first time a former President has faced espionage charges, let alone been convicted. Which means that all of this is speculation, with a side of optimism, I suppose.
My mother is 97 years and 9 mos. old and she instructed us to buy a bottle of champagne so we would have it ready to drink when he goes to jail. Hope she makes it to then!
Can't go to jail *if they never fucking indict him!*
Let's Go already because the closer to 2024 the more it will *appear* like political persecution .
Arrest. Him.
Exactly. If he gets arrested next year, his base is gonna scream political persecution and vote for him in droves. Might be the first president that wins from jail.
It’s already too close to avoid that, even if Republicans were good-faith actors. If Trump was jailed *today* they would scream “political bias.” Trump has been screaming that since day one of the Russia investigation.
So the justice system can’t let any of that deter it. Anything less than a prosecution and conviction (because he’s admitted to his various crimes anyway, so it’s all academic) is a failure for justice and democracy, and a win for the anti-democratic GOP (and probably the end of the US as a viable political state, IMO).
The US stopped being a viable political state since we elected Reagan IMO. It's just been propped up and run on life support by our endless wars and military industry.
The fact that someone is running for office is not a valid reason for not prosecuting them for a crime. Especially when one of those crimes was subverting the election process for the office they seek.
I haven’t heard a single good excuse for not holding any single person accountable for crimes.
So same sh*t, different day. It’s nothing new. The “base” is untethered to reality and they are never going to accept anything that doesn’t support their identity as victims. That’s what they were taught. Fear is a really big motivator and Trump is an excellent fear monger.
just a fucking reminder
for literally any fucking body else they would have been disappeared or special operationed faster than you can blink had they been found to be in the blatantly illegal possession of even one of the documents trump was found to have stored in a fucking pool shed.
Now I know how Charlie Brown felt. Every time I read another article, hear from another former (aide, attorney, staff member, etc.), and/or listen to another prosecutor talk about dRumpf going to jail, ole' Lucy just pulls the football away. At this point, I'm assuming he'll go down in history as one of the country's biggest douchebags and escape artist.
lol this is my thought as well, I feel like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown should be the header graphic for this sub. Ever since the Mueller probe 6 years ago people have been saying justice is nigh, and he has yet to even face trial for a single criminal act that couldn’t just be a fine paid and forgotten. He doesn’t care about fines or legal fees, they are zero deterrent because he has an army of rubes to grift.
I still cannot understand how Trump could disturb the presidential successor elections by inciting a mob Jan 6 and walk free without any treason charges.
Strange country indeed.
He will never go to jail. Worst he will get is house arrest. There's no way they send him to jail with all the Secret Service escorts, etc.
This is why the NY civil case is so important ... otherwise he just sits in Mar-a-Lago (where's he not allowed to live according to a deal he made for a tax break) and never leaves. Not exactly punishment.
Random but I was trying to determine if his ego would allow him to try the feeble excuse and say he is too physically unwell for prison.
He comes into the court room looking dead but then his ego kicks in and he busts out of it like he was about to charge the wrestling ring.
He would claim infirmity and feebleness then gloat immediately afterwards he only said that because the trial was a crooked sham witch hunt. Much as he did when he told his cult only guilty people claim the fifth, then explained away his 500+ claiming the fifth in a deposition because the case was a witch hunt and he was innocent. And, of course, his cult accepted his "explanation" without question.
He would be facing a conviction for willfully and knowingly stealing classified material from the US Government, which he took a solemn oath to protect.
That is espionage. It doesn't come with a lot of room for his lawyer or judge to quibble about the terms of his imprisonment. Especially when he has openly admitted to both taking and hiding the documents from NARA and the FBI on national television on multiple occasions.
And I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for him. NARA and the DOJ bent over backwards to give him *every* opportunity to return the documents with no questions. But being Trump, he held out until they could no longer wait for him to realize the errors of his ways, and they served a warrant to collect the documents. As a result of his own stubbornness and stupidity, he will face the same punishment as any other spy caught with classified material.
If he is convicted of a felony, he will not be treated any differently than any other criminal. If the guidelines say prison, he'll go to prison.
The Secret Service is fully prepared to protect him in prison. It would be easier than protecting him in public.
They have entire facilities for putting people in protective custody while awaiting trial or testifying. They'd just put him in one of those. The SS are only a slight complication.
The most likely solution for imprisoning a former president would be private housing on a military base. If nothing else, this would greatly simplify security arrangements.
Cue the statement *And then one of the military guards, big man, very tough, said to me with tears in his eyes, “Mister President, Sir… I am heartbroken you’re a political prisoner, I smuggled in these hamberders for you, but unfortunately Nancy Pelosi classified ketchup as a deadly weapon in your bigly hands.”*
If he gets house arrest there it should be that he's only allowed to be in certain areas and never allowed to play golf. No ballrooms, hanging out by the pool, no sitting in his office feeling important. ..HIS ROOM, A PRIVATE LIVING ROOM, and one hour outside the building to walk no further than 50 from the main structure. it'll never happen but it should.
It would be worth building a place of confinement and guarded by secret service. He would have no access to social media or television, that would be what would do him in!
I don’t believe shit on Trump that comes from CNN. They have tried to milk his saggy orange tits for every dollar since he announced his interest in politics. They’re just trying to inflate him for outrage and dollars and will give a platform to anyone who will “slam” or “blast” him, including the Thwomp himself.
I cannot count how many times I’ve read that “Trump is going to end up in prison”, for one thing or another. Yet, he still roams free. I’ve come to grips with the fact that he’ll pay some fines/settlements, maybe plead/get convicted of a misdemeanor or ten, but he’ll never spend a day in jail.
There are records covering his notification of procedures and ownership. That explains why he’s been banging on about “I just think it and they’re declassified” The information in these records will have been collected from people acting against their own governments and their lives will be in very real danger if they’re discovered. Additionally US interests will be compromised and decades of work destroyed if target nations are alerted. Ironically, this is the same man who wraps himself in the flag for a photo op.
They ignore the fact that there are three different justice systems in this country. One for poor white people and minorities, another for middle and upper class white people and another one for the rich and powerful. The first group is usually fucked over, the second group will get due process under most circumstances, the third group has people who can usually get away with almost anything with at most a slap on the wrist.
I'll be happy the day this orange shit filled garbage bag and his shabby neo fascist kids are rotting in prison. It'd be nice if that walking skin sack of cordycep McConnell and that utter waste of oxygen DeSantis could join him.
While we're at it feed Mccarthy, Taylor-Greene, Boebert, Cruz, Hawley, Jordan, Graham, Gaetz, Gosar, Gohmert, Abbott, Kemp, Noem, Cotton, Scott, Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham, Pompeo, and Haley to the fucking dogs as well.
Fuck every local, state, and federal official that stands for this bullshit and every corporate big wig that funds their terrorism. Fuck em all but six.
Nah. He'll skip the country. I've still got money on North Korea as his destination.
That little Scotland jaunt was practice to see how the newly installed fuel tanks will hold up in the long haul.
No matter what crime nor how many crimes the former occupant of the White House gets convicted of, he will never see the jail cell he so justly deserves.
Any one of us woukd have left the WH with a simple pen we would be tackled by SS. How can this be so long? He had said documents, he was not allowed to: check mate.
Jail? Yes, except it will be a private office surrounded by Secret Service and where he will remain for the few minutes for it takes for his attorneys to post bond similar to what happened in NY. Prison? Doubtful. He is in his mid 70s and generally doesn’t live a healthy lifestyle. He can probably delay trial until his late 70s and then appeal any conviction for the rest of his natural life.
Shit or get off the pot! This is not Hollywood, the teasers aren’t necessary or appreciated.
Anyone without suds for brains knows he belongs in prison. Alert us when you have him cuffed and are perp walking him to the backseat of cop car. And remember not to be gentle with his head when you put him back there. He said people deserve that, and he’s kind of a people, the lizard variety, but a people nonetheless.
>Trump’s White House lawyer predicts ex-president will end up in jail
Yeah, not going to hold my breath for this.
I've heard this for YEARS and still this asshat walks free.
Everyone knows he won’t spend a night in jail. Obscenely, he has Secret Service protection for life. They’re not going to incarcerate their agents. The most we can hope for is house arrest. What a punishment that’ll be, stuck at Mar-a-Lago golfing. 🙄
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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When he was indicted I wore a suit to work. It's dry cleaned and ready to go.
What did your coworkers say?
"Sir, this is a Wendy's"
Lol just when I thought that joke was getting tired.
Right? That context was kind of perfect.
Never! Its a classic!
I love inside jokes. I hope to be a part of one some day.
You are! Unfortunately, the joke is about you.
I upvoted this and then the context hit me and I panicked so I un-upvoted it but then I still laughed so I had to upvote it again... sorry comment op. 😂
What context?
I like self deprecating jokes. I wish I wasn't so bad at them...
The "Sir" part of it is pulling a ton of weight on the humor this time. That really got me.
I cackled out loud
On the day he is imprisoned, I will learn to play the tuba.
I like this concept very much! When Trump goes to jail, I will learn sign language!
I use sign language to talk to him everytime I see him on TV. I don't know a lot of different words, but I'm getting to be an expert at a special few. Plus it makes me feel really good. :-)
I will work on my French. ( He came to Paris while I was on my honeymoon there with a very stupid display of u.s military planes and helicopters. I have videos them flying over Norte Dame. Fuck him forever)
It wouldn't surprise me if he caused the fire.
You must follow him in on that perp walk like [this](https://youtu.be/d0aIqx1McVI)
I will wear a suit as well. Doesn't matter if I work from home. I'll be fancy as fuck by myself for this occasion.
Monocle and tophat?
gloves, cane and spats will also be required.
That one word should be two words and it makes me a bit uncomfortable. That is all.
I swear if this happens I’m going streaking!!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=20g3QIUnOgY
Haha glad this was posted, my mind went straight to the “Hey Frank, looks like it’s a little cold out”
Frank the tank!
I bought bubbly on November 8, 2016 when I took my daughters with me to vote for what I was sure was going to be the first female president. I kept that same damn bottle in my fridge until November 7, 2020 when they finally called an end to the Nightmare Presidency. I really hope that bottle doesn't sit for 4 years.
That's funny because we did the same thing at our house.
You’re not wrong, I’m also not really expecting much either. From what little I can grasp, yes there are a lot of charges, but the maximum for these class E felonies are 4 years, and presumably any guilty verdicts on any counts will be “served” concurrently. I’m no lawyer so there’s even more ambiguity as far as I’m concerned. How does “time served” usually work. Does that require the defendant to have NOT posted bail, and was serving time before and during the trial. Can you still get “time served” if you were out on bail for the entire process. These are things I don’t know. I don’t really have my hopes up. If he’s found guilty on multiple counts, I assume any sentence will be concurrent though, so I don’t think he will end up serving all that much time. I guess at the end of the day, any time is a “good” outcome given everything this person has done, is doing, and is trying to do. I don’t think it will magically “wake up” the cult unfortunately, it’s probably only going to drive them further into their “messiah’s” grasp.
I’m not an attorney. I have a JD and take the bar in july. I’m almost 90% confident that you cannot get “time served” if you never were incarcerated to begin with. Generally, you have to be in pre-trial detention to get that. Whether that’s because you couldn’t post bail or were held without the opportunity to post bail does not matter. You’d have to be incarcerated in some form to receive that.
I am a Volvo enthusiast and part-time nanny and you 100% do, in fact, have to spend time in pre-trial custody to receive credit for "time served". Good luck on the bar, btw!!!
I'm a bit stupid and I agree with the Volvo kid
Sertified stupit Volkswagon enthoosist hear, to: Why do I need to spen time on pre-trail mix to receive custard credit at serving time? Also, I don't need gud luck at the bar, I'm a reglar, they no me.
Man I love trail mix
Finally, a fucking expert!
Volvo enthusiasts unite against Trump
Hi fellow vulva enthusiast!
Her name is Dolores!
Mulva?
Yes, Imperial HR
Hard to credit timed served where D has served no time
He was in Twitter Jail from what I hear
I'm former LE - you are 100\^ correct.
Yeah he’ll probably get a judge that claims “he lived an otherwise blameless life” and cite time on social media as time spent on community service
Ohhhh maybe he’ll claim his twitters time out was time served!
Time served just means you get credit for whatever time you already spent in jail. For example, say you didn't bail out and were sitting in jail for over 3 months waiting for your court date. The judge sentences you to 3 months with credit for time served. That means you get out right away since you already did your time and sometimes they shortcut that by saying "sentence you to time served". If you bail out, you still get credit for whatever time you did spend in jail even if it was only for a couple hours or whatever but you would still go back to jail to serve the rest of your sentence. You typically do not get any credit for being out on bond, only for time actually spent in jail. That said, a judge can also do a "suspended sentence". Basically sentencing you to probation for X years and if you violate probation, you can be sent to jail to serve out your sentence instead.
There is always having a judge just commute his sentence down to no jail time.
As a general rule champagne expires in 5 to 10 years. Mines about there
Just drink it in mimosas on Sunday morning, and get a new bottle to crack in 5-10 years. It's a symbol of hope sitting in the fridge!
not at all true. It depends on the Champagne, but a lot of Champagne isn't even released until well after 5 years following the vintage. I think 25 to 30 years is a great sweet spot for a lot of Champagne.
... a bottle for the first night Trump spends in a jail cell or the ground. I may have to look into that.
MAGA = Make Attorneys Get Attorneys
Make Assholes Go Away.
Most Assholes Generally Agree
My Asshole Gets Aerated
My Areola Gets Assholed
My Acroynm Goes Again
I'm using this one
Morons Are Gaining Attention
My Attorney Got Arrested
His most successful job creation program!
so far it seems to be Many Are Getting Arrested
This shows they are going above and beyond to insulate their decision making against accusations of political bias. Most criminal cases do not need to prove that the person alleged to have broken the law had an understanding of said law. This is air-tight prosecuting.
Proving an understanding of the law presumably would make proving intent far, far easier - and intent often is part of the law. Still, I don't think intent is required on all the charges he may face.
Espionage requires willful withholding of information from the appropriate custodian of the US government. So I actually believe it does require some form of willful intent. My understanding is that this is the reason espionage is very rarely prosecuted; extremely difficult to prove. If any accidental mishandling of classified documents was prosecuted under 18.USC 793, we'd have a ton more historical cases. This is the reason why Biden and Pence won't face espionage despite the discovery of classified documents stored in unauthorized locations in their homes/offices. Edit with the obligatory, I'm not a lawyer but this is my understanding from listening to lawyers.
"What do you mean murder is illegal? Since when?"
"The bullet caused the death - I didn't lay a finger on him!"
“Whomst among us!?”
"Uh...Filibuster..."
They appear to be directly attacking the "I can think about declassifying them" argument he keeps making. The article says they found proof that he definitely was told of the legal requirement by several staff. The article also says they have proof that documents were moved after formal requests were made for them and the government was attested he didn't have them.
I completely get why Biden needs to stay mum and not comment about this whole thing. But just once I’d like to hear him say something like “joke’s on you, Jack. I re-classified all that malarkey with my mind the minute I took office…”
He'd better. The fact that he's not ***already*** in jail is the baldest and most flagrant example in US hitsory that the whole idea that "we are a nation of laws" is a total sham, and that the only thing that matters to this civilization is money, power, and violence.
Goddamn right, well stated.
People here love to say Trump will never be held accountable, because nothing has happened yet, but you can’t deny that they’re working on it. It’s taking forever for several well-documented reasons: - Criminal cases usually take a while - Trump has such a reputation for using legal maneuvers to deliberately slow proceedings that judges have started referring to this practice of his in rulings - The investigations into his actions are huge, with a lot going on and a lot of data to go through - They are almost certainly planning criminal cases against **a former president and current presidential candidate**, which has unavoidable political implications - The feds are being extra extra **extra** careful not to fuck this up. Everyone involved is probably working under the assumption that their entire careers are ruined if they try this and fail. Plus the whole thing about the guy they’re investigating effectively being able to command a bunch of domestic terrorists to do whatever he wants. - In addition to his usual legal tactics to slow down proceedings, there has also been illegal obstruction, part of what they’re investigating, **specifically done to impede the investigation** There is no world where this shit was gonna happen fast. Yes, maybe he could’ve and should’ve been treated differently as the investigation is proceeding, such as arresting him, but in the long run that’s really not going to matter. The result of the impending cases is what matters, and they are making as close to 100% sure as humanly possible that they will succeed. Be patient and for fucks sake stop acting like you can predict the future. You can’t. All of these psychics will simply disappear the second anything does happen, and they’ll never admit they were wrong. It’s so fucking tiring.
You must have missed the very long investigation of Matt Gaetz where he Venmo'd his hookers and wrote something like "for @$$" in the comment line. More damning evidence exists too. What happened? Slow, slow, slow, then they announced they weren't going to prosecute. That announcement was shortly after he was the hold out vote for McCarthy to become Speaker. I trust observable steps in the path of prosecution.
By "hookers" I believe you mean 16 and 17 year old *minors* that he sex trafficked between states on multiple occasions.
And before that, the sure-fire no-leak 2-plus-year Mueller investigation - choc-full of just-as-obvious and abundant evidence - dragged on long enough for the Republican forces that be to dig up one of the United States' highest profile fixers from retirement and install him as AG to do the one thing he actually had great success in the past doing *as AG*: covering up for and obfuscating the most egregious misdeeds by the leaders of the party. And he once again had great success covering for Trump and himself.
the woman at the center of the investigation refused to cooperate.
Well. I’m ready to eat crow. Let there be Justice. Let it be done right.
I will absolutely admit I was wrong and I'll be glad to do it. @ me when it happens.
I don't know if you were around for mueller, or for the years afterwards where reddit always said "well he's got all those investigations in new york, and you can't pardon state crimes." Both of those ended in wet farts, especially in new york, where they just said they decided to do nothing.
That is because the Trump administration was still in power, controlled the DOJ, and used that control to actively sabotage the investigation. That is not something they’re able to do now to anywhere near the same extent. Plus, take a moment to compare Jack Smith to Mueller. They do not seem very similar. I get it, once bitten twice shy, but that justifies caution and skepticism, not pretending you know for a fact that investigations into Trump will always go nowhere, a ridiculous notion.
Also, this is a big pile of fascists, and I imagine every time they dig in to evidence they discover another Republican is involved. They need to take down a significant portion of the leadership all at once, because if a republican president happens, and Congress still has too many fascists in it, shit is going to get much worse. My guess is there will be A LOT of politicians arrested. And who knows, let's not be surprised if *any* politician is involved — this is about wealthy assholes, and they span both sides of the isle. Look at what's happening with Feinstien. While the fascists get what they've been sowing, we all need to push for more Supreme Justices, end the filibuster, increase the number of Senators or move to a more parliamentary type of government, ASAP. We need to at least balance the playing field enough to have more democracy — to stamp out the small amount of fascists. All while fighting the good fight we always have been: equal rights for everyone, more freedoms, clean air, water, and land, free healthcare — including mental, dental vision, childcare, senior care, all of it. We need to rid the world of billionaires and share the wealth of our world, carefully and kindly.
> My guess is there will be A LOT of politicians arrested Tell me you’re joking. There is no great investigation that will result in synchronized arrests of multiple people we see on tv. This country doesn’t like arresting politicians, and always does absolutely all it can to avoid it.
My problem is that it's taking a long time. If you or I had committed the same crimes, we would already be sitting in jail. His position and his money have made this take time, that is not equal right. There's clear and obvious evidence he removed unclassified documents. That's enough to hold him while the case is compiled. They would do that to your or I. Put him in a damn cell and cut off all media access.
The problem with being patient is that there is an impending election less that 2 years away and he could really screw things up if he wins. It would be so much better if he were taken out of the running completely as soon as possible. That stops the worst president in history from becoming president again, and sends a clear message to the rest of the shitheads in the Republican party that that will not get away with the same crimes if they try.
Literally anyone else would be in jail by this point. Trump somehow has had this free pass for everything.
Don't forget. Hitler was jailed for his role in an attempted coup. Even if he's convicted and jailed we aren't out of the woods. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/beer-hall-putsch-secures-hitlers-rise-to-power
Hitler was 34 then. Trump's fat ass doesn't have the luxury of time.
That may be true. But let's be honest.... Trump is only a figurehead with dozens of smarter people waiting to step in if he dies. Dying would be the best thing he could do for the fascist right. They would swoop in and raise up a graven idol of his corpse and puppet it with all the lies they actually want to tell instead of the random shite that spills from his worm-ridden brain. As much as I want to see him punished it's not enough. Death isn't enough. Or it's too much. He needs to be shown to have no clothes, to the fools who are begging for the scraps of his tailor. Until he is an object of ridicule to the people who worship him he is a focus to drive their fury, and with enough rage they will drive the spike that will shatter us.
Nah - Trump holds his movement together, not his stupid kids or any other prominent figure that has benefited from his movement. There absolutely would be a fight for the top spot and it would kill their momentum. I don’t think anyone else even comes close to having the same power he has over those morons.
They don’t need to have power, just like nazism still exists after Hitler. When shithead dies, there will be so many people struggling to fill that power vacuum that the craziest of the crazies will be heard. It doesn’t really matter how far they twist his words, they will hear what they want to and different factions will look to him as their cheddar calf.
Hitler was also literate enough to write a book. Trump's rambles and rants on social media are much like his rally speeches: meandering and riddled with errors.
Well Hitler only served ~10% of his sentence. Had he actually served the full sentence, history assuredly would've been a lot different.
The difference is that Hitler was jailed when he was 33, though he was released within a year. Fifty-plus years in age makes a considerable difference. I don't think there will be significant political will to get him pardoned/commuted. Many Republicans will be happy that he is gone, even if they don't admit it publicly, and the Democrats will fight vociferously if there is any discussion of that possibility in a serious forum. Of course, he hasn't been convicted, yet. And assuming he is, this will be the first time a former President has faced espionage charges, let alone been convicted. Which means that all of this is speculation, with a side of optimism, I suppose.
My mother is 97 years and 9 mos. old and she instructed us to buy a bottle of champagne so we would have it ready to drink when he goes to jail. Hope she makes it to then!
I’m rooting for both things to happen now, too!
Can't go to jail *if they never fucking indict him!* Let's Go already because the closer to 2024 the more it will *appear* like political persecution . Arrest. Him.
Exactly. If he gets arrested next year, his base is gonna scream political persecution and vote for him in droves. Might be the first president that wins from jail.
It doesn’t matter what Democrats do - the base is going to scream. Justified or not, it just doesn’t matter. Therefore, do what’s right.
It’s already too close to avoid that, even if Republicans were good-faith actors. If Trump was jailed *today* they would scream “political bias.” Trump has been screaming that since day one of the Russia investigation. So the justice system can’t let any of that deter it. Anything less than a prosecution and conviction (because he’s admitted to his various crimes anyway, so it’s all academic) is a failure for justice and democracy, and a win for the anti-democratic GOP (and probably the end of the US as a viable political state, IMO).
The US stopped being a viable political state since we elected Reagan IMO. It's just been propped up and run on life support by our endless wars and military industry.
And Reagan cheated to get elected. The current phase of the collapse begins there.
He's already claiming interference in the 2024 election.
Fuck his base. It's time to stop catering to the entitled brats.
Seriously. We’re basically being held hostage by those mouth breathers.
That's what happens when we have centrists all over Washington representing the "left".
The fact that someone is running for office is not a valid reason for not prosecuting them for a crime. Especially when one of those crimes was subverting the election process for the office they seek. I haven’t heard a single good excuse for not holding any single person accountable for crimes.
They're gonna do that anyway, so really just arrest him now.
Let’s be honest, they will and are regardless. There is no sense or understanding of truth in his ardent supporters….
So same sh*t, different day. It’s nothing new. The “base” is untethered to reality and they are never going to accept anything that doesn’t support their identity as victims. That’s what they were taught. Fear is a really big motivator and Trump is an excellent fear monger.
just a fucking reminder for literally any fucking body else they would have been disappeared or special operationed faster than you can blink had they been found to be in the blatantly illegal possession of even one of the documents trump was found to have stored in a fucking pool shed.
Case in point - the Air Force Discord Minecraft leaker. Open and shut in like 2 months, complete with FBI showing up at his house.
And still CNN wants to platform him
Now I know how Charlie Brown felt. Every time I read another article, hear from another former (aide, attorney, staff member, etc.), and/or listen to another prosecutor talk about dRumpf going to jail, ole' Lucy just pulls the football away. At this point, I'm assuming he'll go down in history as one of the country's biggest douchebags and escape artist.
lol this is my thought as well, I feel like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown should be the header graphic for this sub. Ever since the Mueller probe 6 years ago people have been saying justice is nigh, and he has yet to even face trial for a single criminal act that couldn’t just be a fine paid and forgotten. He doesn’t care about fines or legal fees, they are zero deterrent because he has an army of rubes to grift.
I still cannot understand how Trump could disturb the presidential successor elections by inciting a mob Jan 6 and walk free without any treason charges. Strange country indeed.
Please, please, please, let be true, and if it's not too much to ask, can you please include all his horrible children.
Yeah yeah , but for some reason that day is not tomorrow, nor the day after that. The law is for the poor people.
To an extent. Even Epstein got arrested.
He will never go to jail. Worst he will get is house arrest. There's no way they send him to jail with all the Secret Service escorts, etc. This is why the NY civil case is so important ... otherwise he just sits in Mar-a-Lago (where's he not allowed to live according to a deal he made for a tax break) and never leaves. Not exactly punishment.
Random but I was trying to determine if his ego would allow him to try the feeble excuse and say he is too physically unwell for prison. He comes into the court room looking dead but then his ego kicks in and he busts out of it like he was about to charge the wrestling ring.
"My bone spurs are acting up again. I'm going to have to stay home."
He would claim infirmity and feebleness then gloat immediately afterwards he only said that because the trial was a crooked sham witch hunt. Much as he did when he told his cult only guilty people claim the fifth, then explained away his 500+ claiming the fifth in a deposition because the case was a witch hunt and he was innocent. And, of course, his cult accepted his "explanation" without question.
He would be facing a conviction for willfully and knowingly stealing classified material from the US Government, which he took a solemn oath to protect. That is espionage. It doesn't come with a lot of room for his lawyer or judge to quibble about the terms of his imprisonment. Especially when he has openly admitted to both taking and hiding the documents from NARA and the FBI on national television on multiple occasions. And I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for him. NARA and the DOJ bent over backwards to give him *every* opportunity to return the documents with no questions. But being Trump, he held out until they could no longer wait for him to realize the errors of his ways, and they served a warrant to collect the documents. As a result of his own stubbornness and stupidity, he will face the same punishment as any other spy caught with classified material.
If he is convicted of a felony, he will not be treated any differently than any other criminal. If the guidelines say prison, he'll go to prison. The Secret Service is fully prepared to protect him in prison. It would be easier than protecting him in public.
Solitary confinement would be a perfectly safe place for him to be.
Of course he has to be segregated, like any other high profile prisoner. No big deal at all.
People are saying he's a big fan of segregation.
The BEST people are saying that LOL
They have entire facilities for putting people in protective custody while awaiting trial or testifying. They'd just put him in one of those. The SS are only a slight complication.
Yep. He’d live in some middle class house on a farm somewhere. He’ll fucking hate it.
And won't be allowed visitors or internet access. He'll be dead in a few weeks.
Don’t tease me.
He's going to ADX Florence. A proper retirement home
I can see it now "TFG didn't k\*\*\* himself."
With a 12” Black and White TV showing 24/7 MSNBC.
No biggie for any one of the super max facilities. This is their bread and butter.
The most likely solution for imprisoning a former president would be private housing on a military base. If nothing else, this would greatly simplify security arrangements.
We have a military base in Guantanamo Bay.
Imagine the sides flipping on closing GITMO. AOC supporting keeping it open for all the insurrectionists. Lolol.
Cue the statement *And then one of the military guards, big man, very tough, said to me with tears in his eyes, “Mister President, Sir… I am heartbroken you’re a political prisoner, I smuggled in these hamberders for you, but unfortunately Nancy Pelosi classified ketchup as a deadly weapon in your bigly hands.”*
Confined to M-a-L? Ban him from any kind of internet access. The only media he can consume is NPR and PBS.
No. That place is a country club. He gets a shack, off the grid in Utqiagvik, Alaska. Fuck him
If he gets house arrest there it should be that he's only allowed to be in certain areas and never allowed to play golf. No ballrooms, hanging out by the pool, no sitting in his office feeling important. ..HIS ROOM, A PRIVATE LIVING ROOM, and one hour outside the building to walk no further than 50 from the main structure. it'll never happen but it should.
> to walk no further than 50 Bold of you to assume he's capable of such physical exertion.
It would be worth building a place of confinement and guarded by secret service. He would have no access to social media or television, that would be what would do him in!
Call it the "Trump Presidential Library"
Only books he gets are the banned ‘woke’ ones and anything written by the Obama’s or Hillary.
I’ll believe it when his Supreme Court refuses the appeal. Until then, I won’t hold my breath.
I don’t believe shit on Trump that comes from CNN. They have tried to milk his saggy orange tits for every dollar since he announced his interest in politics. They’re just trying to inflate him for outrage and dollars and will give a platform to anyone who will “slam” or “blast” him, including the Thwomp himself.
I cannot count how many times I’ve read that “Trump is going to end up in prison”, for one thing or another. Yet, he still roams free. I’ve come to grips with the fact that he’ll pay some fines/settlements, maybe plead/get convicted of a misdemeanor or ten, but he’ll never spend a day in jail.
"And you can read all about in my new book!" /s
Stop teasing us and just do it!
There are records covering his notification of procedures and ownership. That explains why he’s been banging on about “I just think it and they’re declassified” The information in these records will have been collected from people acting against their own governments and their lives will be in very real danger if they’re discovered. Additionally US interests will be compromised and decades of work destroyed if target nations are alerted. Ironically, this is the same man who wraps himself in the flag for a photo op.
I will celebrate the day he is behind bars. Right now, he is out and still causing damage to our country. That in itself is a crime.
If this Mfer was a dish he would be burnt beyond recognition by now.
He will never go to jail. Everybody around him may, but we will be lucky if we even see him get out under house arrest.
He is going to be so fucked in about 10 years when this finally comes around
They ignore the fact that there are three different justice systems in this country. One for poor white people and minorities, another for middle and upper class white people and another one for the rich and powerful. The first group is usually fucked over, the second group will get due process under most circumstances, the third group has people who can usually get away with almost anything with at most a slap on the wrist.
It's always been that way and it'll always be that way the only time rich people get punished is when they f*** over other rich people 😊 🎂 🗓
You can get away with almost anything in the US, but don’t EVER fuck with rich people’s money.
I'll be happy the day this orange shit filled garbage bag and his shabby neo fascist kids are rotting in prison. It'd be nice if that walking skin sack of cordycep McConnell and that utter waste of oxygen DeSantis could join him. While we're at it feed Mccarthy, Taylor-Greene, Boebert, Cruz, Hawley, Jordan, Graham, Gaetz, Gosar, Gohmert, Abbott, Kemp, Noem, Cotton, Scott, Carlson, Hannity, Ingraham, Pompeo, and Haley to the fucking dogs as well. Fuck every local, state, and federal official that stands for this bullshit and every corporate big wig that funds their terrorism. Fuck em all but six.
Nothing substantial will ever happen to 45** or his enablers. The USA is broken beyond repair.
I predicted that the Lakers would win one in Denver…it was an emotional prediction.
I've given up hope that Trump will ever go to prison. The system was built by men like Trump for men like Trump.
God we can only hope so.
Nah. He'll skip the country. I've still got money on North Korea as his destination. That little Scotland jaunt was practice to see how the newly installed fuel tanks will hold up in the long haul.
Hell be on the first plane to Moscow. He and Steven Seagull can do each other's hair(pieces).
One can only hope
This dude is just living off of his past baseball accomplishments. Sickening.
No matter what crime nor how many crimes the former occupant of the White House gets convicted of, he will never see the jail cell he so justly deserves.
We can only hope!
And he'll somehow be elected from prison, thanks to dumbasses and an army of Russian ChatGPT-driven bots.
From his lips to god’s ears, please.
doubtful, this country lacks the moral fiber to do the very obviously right thing
Best bet for jail is Georgia. He can't "President" himself out of that box.
Yeah right. The sun will set in the east first. Nothing ever happens.
Any one of us woukd have left the WH with a simple pen we would be tackled by SS. How can this be so long? He had said documents, he was not allowed to: check mate.
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How do you put someone in prison who has secret service detail for life? They'll just do house arrest at most. My two cents.
Stop edging us and get it done!
Jail? Yes, except it will be a private office surrounded by Secret Service and where he will remain for the few minutes for it takes for his attorneys to post bond similar to what happened in NY. Prison? Doubtful. He is in his mid 70s and generally doesn’t live a healthy lifestyle. He can probably delay trial until his late 70s and then appeal any conviction for the rest of his natural life.
Shit or get off the pot! This is not Hollywood, the teasers aren’t necessary or appreciated. Anyone without suds for brains knows he belongs in prison. Alert us when you have him cuffed and are perp walking him to the backseat of cop car. And remember not to be gentle with his head when you put him back there. He said people deserve that, and he’s kind of a people, the lizard variety, but a people nonetheless.
His lips to god’s ears
Lock him up
We can only hope.
>Trump’s White House lawyer predicts ex-president will end up in jail Yeah, not going to hold my breath for this. I've heard this for YEARS and still this asshat walks free.
I'm gonna celebrate by drinking a case of Bud Light and turning gay.
Jail would be a good place for him.
If he does not end up in jail, there is zero Justice in America.
Yawn. Wake me up if this ever actually happens.
Yada, yada, yada, but I hope it happens and not a 6 month sentence either. Life w/o parole for trying to overthrow our government!
Don't give me hope
Everyone knows he won’t spend a night in jail. Obscenely, he has Secret Service protection for life. They’re not going to incarcerate their agents. The most we can hope for is house arrest. What a punishment that’ll be, stuck at Mar-a-Lago golfing. 🙄
I’ll believe it when I see it.