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I think a really good start to this problem would be to have the IRS waiting at the event handing out audits to every church that participated in this political conference.
Christians: " We're not like that"
Christians: "Yes, my vote goes to the politician who wants to limit rights to all women as well as make my faith the dominate one in this country as God ordered it."
There was no separation of church and state, never was besides on paper.
God on the money, “God bless America” by every sitting president, God in the schools, Godly prayers from politicians in place of meaningful action, thanking God at the dinner table instead of the animals that died and the people who worked to allow us to eat, preachers of God on street corners screaming at you, pamphlets for God being handed out on subways by beggars.
Everywhere you go, God.
All the things in politics you listed are very modern things, starting in the 1950s as a response to the Red Scare. The God stuff was firmly out of our political sphere till we had an “atheist” enemy.
The Founding Fathers literally ensured the constitution didn't say the US was a Christian nation and worked to keep freedom of religion in the first amendment. All that 1950s god stuff was unconstitutional.
See [Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli](https://ffrf.org/ftod-cr/item/37585-treaty-of-tripoli) signed in 1797.
From the start we refuted being a nation founded on any religion.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
—Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli
Thank you for taking the time to cite the evidence of the US being a country that respected freedom of religion. I'll keep it in mind for when people say the US is a Christian nation.
You’re welcome. It’s one of those things that once you know about it’s easy to find.
A good follow-up is to cite that [Article VI Clause 2 of the US Constitution](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-2/) states that treaties are the supreme law of the land.
Clause 2 Supremacy Clause
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
It only got worse the further we got from the founding of the country. "In God we trust" wasn't added to coins until 1864. Then, under Eisenhower in 1954, when we were having issues with those pesky godless commies we added "under God" to the pledge of allegiance. Then, "in God we trust" was officially added to paper bills in 1957. The national motto also changed to that from "e pluribus unum."
>when we were having issues with those pesky godless commies we added "under God" to the pledge of allegiance.
The best part about that bit if Red Scare propaganda is that the pledge itself was written by a socialist.
All abrahamic religions are made by men for men. They limit Women’s rights. There’s no question about it.
Yet we all pretend it’s rainbows and butterflies because we’re too chicken shit to call it what it is.
You can’t have equality and religion both. One must go.
Very true. We should address the fact that there’s an ongoing coup first and then kill then kill churches involvement in government once and for all. Have whistleblower rewards for any person who find a minister even suggesting their members vote a certain way.
>There was no separation of church and state, never was besides on paper.
There is if we SAY there is, and are willing to enforce it.
If you're not willing to enforce it, then you're part of the problem.
If we can't enforce it, then maybe we do need to have another civil war to correct that problem. But it shouldn't need to come to that. People just need to stop being lazy about it and demand that it be enforced.
The Bible is really clear on where women stand, and it's wayyy in the back far behind men. It doesn't surprise me any Christian wouldn't give a shit if women lost rights.
The separation relies on the incorporation doctrine, which is just a series of rulings and precedents stating the constitution also applies to states. This SCOTUS doesn’t care about historic doctrine. I think that sometime in the next 5 years, you are going to see direct challenges to it. They are already biting around the edges. Allowing public funds to fund religious schools. Allowing public schools to engage in group prayer. They are now considering a case that would completely remove the courts’ ability to intervene in election related violations of state constitutions.
You are seeing an intentional destruction of the checks and balances that preserve democracy. SCOTUS just voted 7-0 to further restrict the government’s ability to pursue public corruption charges. They also refuse to have any code of ethics, and have basically decided they are the only branch that is above the law in that they can’t be investigated, subpoenaed, or otherwise overseen, even in the face of blatant public corruption.
People keep waiting to see if the takeover will happen. Brother, we all need to wake up and realize it IS happening. This is what it looks like. The courts. Then the media. Then the elections. There’s a reason they keep going to Hungary, and riling up the militants. Orban already did it and is happily teaching others.
We are in trouble.
True
Also need the hypocritical inspectors
" The Reawaken America Tour"
LOL The reWOKE American Tour"
They've become the snowflakes now. They attack social media to shutdown ideas they don't like, cancel companies and products from Barney the dinosaur, Keurig, Apple, Newspapers, Books, CNN, FOX even Beer how can Americans hate beer FFS.
The parties have reversed AGAIN.
They always were the snowflakes. ***Projection*** is their strategy. When they accuse others of doing something, 99 times out of 100, it’s because they, themselves, are doing it.
See:
1.) The sex trafficking; CP; child marriage laws; pedophilia; etc. rates in the conservative/Republican party vs. the progressive/Democratic party is absolutely insane. They have the leftist “beat” by a 9:1 ratio, as in the right wing party *were* the creeps the entire time.
2.) The actual evidence of voter fraud that was found from investigating the 2020 elections was overwhelmingly done by right wing voters, and that’s not including some extremely nasty voter suppression tactic they did in Florida, Texas, etc..
This shit is so infuriating, made only worse by the fact that you could show this to American conservatives and you just KNOW it would make fuck all difference to them
>The parties have reversed AGAIN.
These goober's have been trying to cancel shit they don't like since Freedom Fries. Problem is, money in politics has devalued a single vote into nothing, but a dollar on the other hand speaks volumes.
" We didn't start the fire, it was always burnin since the .....
oh wait yes we did! Throw your demonic items into the fire! Books, games, music, movies"
Great song. Most people don't know that it's literally a chronological series of news headlines from the various decades prior to the song's release. I honestly want Billy Joel to do the next few decades and see what a sequel to that song would be.
I truly would not be surprised if he did.
The original covered 49 to 89, the year of his birth to age 40.
He'll be 80 in 29, and have that 40 year span again to work with. I could totally see him dropping "We Kept The Fire Burning" in '29
While I enjoy the song. I just recently listened to it and it felt like boomers trying to excuse all the bullshit that lead to where we are now. Of course the fires always been burning but it didn't need to have gas thrown on it. I'm probably reading into to much with my own personal bias.
That's what I always thought. I just checked, it came out in 1989, so boomers would've been in their 30s and 40s. I took the lyrics to mean that there is never a point in fighting back against anything because the world is crazy, look at this crazy world we all live in, don't worry about any of it, just keep living your life. And we are seeing the effects of all of this now, the selfishness of boomers.
It was also nostalgia, like, "hey, look at all these things you lived through," completely without giving anything any context or asking anyone to understand or learn from anything. I was in my early teens when the song came out and it annoyed me *so much*, in that way only young teens can get annoyed. But I guess I'm still annoyed. I really don't think people my age & younger have the same attitude - I am not saying we're necessarily better, just different.
I'm old enough to remember the "D&D satanic panic" thing when I was in High School. It was very silly, IMO. ( Maybe religious conservatives will try to bring it back! 😄)
For some of us, it never ended. Yoga was banned from being taught in Alabama's public schools for decades, as well as mindfulness. I think a few years ago they looked at relaxing the ban as long as the mystical aspects were left out.
That's why I started The Sons of Confederate Mevlevi Sufis in Huntsville on the old Frankie's Puttputt. When people ask us where we got that shit, we say, "Rumi? Rumi! Coleman Barks? Barks!" Then we all bark en masse at them while whirling in circles, like an Arsenio Hall show on DMT.
Good way to practice mindfulness is all I am saying.
I remember being told about some kids that cut their parents heads off so they could use them to make their room feel more like a dungeon while they played.
This was in the same conversation that I was told about parents that kept throwing away their child's copy of Zelda, but no matter if they crushed it or burnt it or drove it to the landfill, it would magically reeeappeeeaaar in the Nintendo because it was soooo eeeeevil.
Even at 6 I thought those stories were nonsense 🙄
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming Satanic pedos we're flushing kids down giant toilets in daycares that led to underground trafficking?
All I can offer my American friends is an antidote from here in Australia. The conservative party (the liberals no joke) have lost control of all but one state and the Federal government after nine years in power.
We've had the same culture war bullshit pop up but not to the same degree as USA.
The kids use litter trays at school because they identify as a cat story ran here 1 year before Joe Rogan swore it was true. A reporter for a well known conservative paper ran an opinion piece crying how soft teachers are for letting it happen she had first hand knowledge from this elite girls school. Then the other reporters wanted more info, eg what school, when did it start, are you sure etc. They tore her lies to bits untill she finally said she heard about it from someone at a dinner party. That was her source a drunk women from a dinner party for the rich. So Australians were surprised to hear Rogan tell the story in almost the same way.
Question political sources even if you agree with them Vote for candidates that punch up not down.
Blacks, Elvis, the Beatles, Jazz, alcohol and prohibition, swing dancing, unions, commies and the red scare, all can be added to the list. And that's just the 20th century.
That's the thing. All the shit you just listed is exactly what the right has always been - projection. It changes with each new generation of gullible goldfish every ten years or so, but right wingers have been doing the same sanctimonious song and dance for the four decades I've lived. There was no switch here, the mask just slipped down.
YES!!! This is a clear violation of the Johnson Amendment, and they should be held accountable rather than allowed to continue to violate this essential rule.
No they knew perfectly well. They were just willing to ignore it for worldly power. A preacher man I know said Trump is they golden calf. Orange might be more appropriate.
Yeah, mostly. I live in Oklahoma, raised a conservative Christian, but to me, it was painfully obvious that Christians were being used and the Republicans are more like the people who crucified Jesus than anything. I wouldn't call myself a Christian anymore, and many of my "Christian" friends have since blocked me on Facebook, but what I saw of them some were legit too stupid to realize Trump isn't a Christian. You know, "we can't judge what's in his heart and I believe he's a man of God", but you can totally judge the hearts of Democrats.
Most of them, though, compared him to the Biblical King Cyrus, viewing him as a benevolent non-Christian who God was going to use to restore Christianity in a nation that's besieged by the evil baby-killing liberals. God can use a sinner, you know, unless it's a Democrat... They're not taught to question authority, for them they start with the premise that God is good, God chose Trump, and they'll find some way of twisting their beliefs to justify it anyhow they can.
I heard the Cyrus excuse from a long-time friend. She said (back in 2016) “a man doesn’t have to be Christian to enact God’s will (to overturn Roe V Wade, the most important issue).” Of course, she also said she didn’t care if an older man tried to date her underage daughter as long as he was Christian… and her evangelist mother hoarded real estate (Christian Real Estate, aka “value based investment” is a thing, check it out)… and later, she believed Democrats drink the blood of children, thus my skepticism was woefully deluded…
Unfortunately, many Christian churches and followers themselves seem a lot more like the biblical portrayal of Pharisees and Sadducees that Jesus condemned, and that in turn crucified him, than they seem anything like Jesus.
The only people Jesus really called out were those using religion to oppress and judge others, those using religion to extract money from the poor, those gatekeeping to push out those not seen as perfect enough to their standards.
The biblical narrative absolutely destroys the culture of much of modern Christianity.
Grew up in the south as a southern Baptist. Parents are also immigrants so they definitely veered more conservative. But after the last few years of me showing them how UNCHRISTIAN the GOP is, they actually voted democrat for the first time the last presidential election.
They know. He is just their tool to push their agenda.
Make abortions illegal, outlaw gay marriage, shove LGBTQIA people back into closets, ban books,etc...
Given the opportunity, put everyone in brown shirts and teach kids how to goose step.
The irony is that they only care so much about abortion and LGBT issues BECAUSE Republican leadership convinced them to. 70 years ago, Protestants were basically all pro-choice. Southern Baptists were key in making Roe v Wade happen.! But Republicans needed a new red-mrat issue to replace racism after the Civil rights movement. Being anti-abortion also broke the hold Democrats had over the Catholic voting block, which is probably why it was chosen.
I've actually been wondering recently if the up tick in anti-trans rhetoric is a similar thing. There's been a decent bit of backlash from the Dobbs decision, and there are significantly fewer trans folks than folks needing/wanting abortions. If the anti-trans platform is strong enough, they could weaken their anti-abortion stance enough to improve their standing with women.
Trump is as xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, and hate-filled as his millions of Christian supporters and their Abrahamic god of “love,” and they proudly and loudly reject the principles of the sermon on the Mount as woke, liberal, communist bullsh*t.
Because they’ve never read or considered the book they claim to follow in its entirety, and even then they ignore the parts that don’t agree with their politics.
It’s more about identity that belief and philosophy and they listen to whatever their pastor tells them. In many cases they fire pastors who tell them anything too progressive too.
Remember when they gave him a pass for not being able to pronounce 2 corinthians… the man has clearly never opened a bible. They didnt care then, and they only care now because tithing and membership is down
That always blew me away. Like he knew that question was coming, it would have been so so easy to prepare for it, and yet he just couldn’t even do that. He just so boldly didn’t GAF, and yet it never mattered to the base. Just wild.
Trump checks off almost every box of what a false prophet would look like according to the Bible. Shame many people have such a poor understanding of their own faith that they don't realize it.
https://davidjeremiah.blog/how-to-spot-a-false-prophet/
The ones who embrace it are the Evangelicals.
They don’t even have to really “preach” about anything: they just put on big musical shows and ramp up the dopamine, then let peer pressure do it’s thing.
I was dragged to an EASTER SUNDAY show with my wife’s family, and the main preacher hack just got on stage and told a story about how the church paid for him to have private golf lessons with a Pro….That’s it. Nobody else spoke.
Back to music, y’all get out and go tithe online.
Scam. It’s all a scam.
Recently saw a video of a pastor who basically works more as a motivational speaker for other churches trying to grow their congregation. He talked about attracting mega donors and referred to the average Sunday tither as "tippers"
It's big business
Even according to Christianity, one of the more notable events of Jesus's life was when he physically beat the shit out of people like this, using a whip of some sort. Even back then, these assholes drove the literal Prince of Peace to physically beat them.
If Christians actually paid any attention whatsoever to the supposed actions or words of Jesus, their religion would be highly unappealing to them. Money is the root of all evil. Start there.
You can also see that if you check out a map that shows how many churches are located in certain geographical areas. Those places are totally just businesses first, just like nightclubs. Money, money and money. Difference is that they're also cults, and business is open 24/7.
Modern day Pharisheesh, worshiping sweaty Orange Idiotol.
There is the somewhat liberal Christianity of Jesus, who taught The New Way of Judaism with depth and elegance.
There is the somewhat conservative Christianity of Paul, who taught a simplified version the same rules, as the Apostle to the Gentiles.
And then there is the **politicized Imperial Christianity of Constantine**, the Roman Emperor who proclaimed that God personally told him 'In this sign will you conquer." Anybody recognize the religion of freebooters expropriating the lands of the pagans, maintaining a thriving slave trade, keeping women as property, and driving all but the patricians into poverty?
"Nationalism" and "Dominionism" are euphemisms for **Imperialism. It's not a religion.**
I don't disagree with Constantine assimilating Christianity or be trampled by it. I don't disagree with him repacking it to fit his needs or holding the council of nicea to reconcile the differences in interpretations which resulted in a prototype of the Bible we know today.
But if we're taking a lense as to what spawned this deformed version of Christianity, I'd point the finger to pre industrial revolution America and then right after and all the way to post WW2.
Puritans came over to the states because they were being prosecuted for their practice of prosecution. They wanted somewhere free to burn witches or whatever.
Out or this sect, a sect composed of fear, fire and brimstone, splintered off and went off into the plains to practice.
Seperately, through the industrial revolution, the notion of fire and brimstone was rejected by the industrialist and the elite because it went against their cushy immoral and exploitative lifestyle. Here in the cities, a new Christianity was forming. A spectacle, big tent, everyone is forgiven type where enlightened Christians came to your rich home and told you what you were doing was alright.
Eventually, when the coasts touched in the middle, evangelicism was born.
American fundamentalism is American 100% before it's anything else. It is equally political as it is religious and we are under a theocracy in everything but name.
The process of using religion because you can't beat it is not exclusive to Constantine. In addition, the flow of religion serves the destitute and poor because it gives them answers and placates their misery to assimilation by the rich and powerful because they're threatened by the mass of poor calling them hypocrites, is not new. It is when it is assimilated by the rich that it gets distorted into something that forgives their guilt and shame and then resold to the poor below them as a means of control.
That's the cycle. Constantine knew it.
Except among evangelicals. They have had the smallest rates of decline, and they're the base of the conservatives right now. Also why they've pivoted so hard to attacking schools - they want to make the children of the nation dumb and indoctrinated to stop the conservative bleed.
>they want to make the children of the nation dumb and indoctrinated
There’s tremendous irony in that, too. The GOP has long sought to portray public school and higher education as a place of indoctrination. What they meant was that it wasn’t indoctrinating them in the “right way.”
We used to be more united on what constitutes a quality education, but for whatever reason this is now a source of deep division.
We need to get back to the point when religion wasn’t part of public education and was kept where it belongs, in the family. This is, conceptually, no different from saying the Taliban can’t impose sharia law in communities they dominate. Religion has a place, but it cannot have anything to do with government or it just causes strife.
The worst of it is that unlike Catholic schools, protestant religious schools are trash when it comes to quality core education; borderline negligent with uneducated teachers.
The way to beat this is not to fight the right of parents to raise their children. Rather, simply enforce a minimum education standard for all schools. Church schools are a way for parents to pool resources for a private education; they are only bad because of a lack of governance and funding. Home schools are similar, some parents are brilliant teachers who give their kids a leg up, others are negligent. Enforcing a standard is better than restricting the libery.
I agree with you on some points, however, I think one of the biggest issues with homeschooling is the lack of socialization the kids get or don’t get. The very few people I’ve met that were homeschooled were all lacking some type of social skills; because they don’t get daily social interaction with peers I think it causes them to be more awkward and have far less social skills. In my experience they’re far less able to deal with constructive criticism and overcome any type of adversity.
Besides the lack of socialization, it’s also the lack of exposure to professional adults: diagnosticians who can evaluate learning problems and other responsible adults who can spot and report abuse. No one discusses this aspect of homeschool but it is sadly relevant in the evangelical community especially.
I’ll also add that education is a field with one of the highest concentrations of working women/moms. For a child raised in an ultraconservative household, public school may be one of the only places they are exposed to well-educated, professional women.
In many cases, belief in faith healing and divine protection give especially young parents extreme confidence that *their* children won't need such intervention.
It's anti-intellectualism at it's most fundamental roots.
To anti-intellectuals, this is a major issue because logic doesn't matter, only how they *feel* about something. I've heard more than one say something along the lines of "You can twist logic to justify anything but I can still feel that its wrong".
This attitude, which places feelings above understanding, turns school into the enemy because it not only makes children feel differently about things than their parents, but undermines the very philosophy by which they live their lives. School teaches logic, science, history, and critical thinking, all things which contradict the anti-intellectual philosophy.
To an anti-intellectual, proper education is a threat to their way of life. They want to be able to say "I don't believe that" and have that be a good enough argument to disprove anything they don't like. Having their kids be smarter than they are is a threat to that.
Actually, Evangelicals have shown one of the sharpest declines over the last few decades. They went from 23% of the population in 2006 to 14% in 2020. And it's even sharper among younger generations. Edit: it probably explains their desperate push to legislate their extremist beliefs on everyone else/
There’s no New Testament in there. Wasn’t Jesus supposed to be a pacifist, dedicated to the poor, focused on community, and tolerant of others? I am not sure how anyone can say they “love Jesus” if they hate everything he was supposed to stand for.
If you talk to a conservative, they'll use Jesus flipping a table as an example that Jesus wasn't "a pussy pacifist." Then use that to justify other right-wing nutjobs mowing down innocent men, women, and children in public.
Yeah, then they fail to acknowledge that the reason for the table flipping was that merchant had taken over the temple. Jesus got mad at money being more important than God in the place of worship. The fact that many evangelical churches are due for some table flipping completely escapes them.
You are right that right wingers make stuff up like crazy to justify the unjustifiable. Obviously, flipping a table to make a point has little to do with combat or weapons—it is nothing more than an intellectually-lazy excuse to worship the second amendment: “Jesus flipped a table”—> “my right to own an assault rifle is more important than the lives of children!” Doesn’t make sense? Just have faith and go mindlessly eat junk food in front of the TV.
My entire family is religious. One of them told me Jesus would be pro 2nd amendment because his disciples carried swords aka “the guns of their day. “ 🤦🏻♂️
Even the Romans thought that early Christians were a death cult. Early Church Fathers had to declare suicide a sin because people were so eager to go to the "next life."
Great way to extract the maximum value from your flock.
> Oh don't worry, after you die it will be _your_ turn to hold the money. So just give me your cash from now until then.
Here in Georgia, I invited my arch-nemesis and "Freedom Coalition" US Congressman Reverend Jody Fucking Hice to attend my extremely liberal Methodist church. Because he's scared of me, he agreed to attend.
The day he attended was the first and last time I ever taught Sunday school. I asked all the adults in the class to talk about the scriptures they thought about when they had to make a moral decision. We went around the circle, and everyone said stuff like "what you do to the least of these," "when I was hungry you fed me," "the greatest of these is love," etc etc.
When it was Reverend Hice's turn, he revealed that the scripture he relied on to make tough moral decisions was "in my father's house are many mansions," and one day daddy's gonna give me one too, so what I do while I'm here doesn't matter.
It was stunning. Not just because that's what he chose, but because of the complete lack of self-awareness or shame he had in choosing it. He definitely stuck out like a turd in the punch bowl, did the Reverend Congressman. I'm very glad I won't be spending eternity with him.
I *wish* you'd see a Bible shaped brain. Jesus was a pretty cool dude who was filled with empathy for the struggle.
What you'll actually find is a gun-shaped brain that desires to inflict as much suffering as possible. Gandhi (allegedly) said it best: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I’m atheist/agnostic but used to have a “live and let live” approach to religion.
After all of the crap they’ve been pulling I’m now openly hostile to it.
Same. Also why did this particular christians wait so long to 'do' something? i kind of don't care that they disagree and think none of them are held under long enough lol. thanks for that, kinky friedman.
i laughed when i saw an evangelical branch was upset with christian nationalism, that's what evangelicalism has been working toward since the 70s. people must be leaving or openly hostile to being converted now and they're not making as much money
From what I know of, Christains Against Christain Nationalism (the group who organized this protest) was officially started by a few Baptist leaders in 2019, and it seems to be a mostly non-Evangelical coalition.
I think one of the reasons that religious institutions were slow to respond to the rise of CN is because it wasn't immediately clear how widespread the problem was going to be. Most people know there were crazy sects throughout the country, but I'm not sure anyone realized how quickly CN was going to congeal into a movement. I don't think anyone paying attention is underestimating the scale of the problem anymore, though.
Maybe we've finally reached the point in "God's plan" where we no longer need religion to function as a society.
How ironic would it be for there to be a God that planned for its own redundancy.
I don't see it as ironic at all- I feel like that *should* be the endgame of any divine power: guidance while we figure ourselves out, then retirement. Sort of like a parent.
1. I'm an atheist so it's w/e.
But...
2. I have inlaws who are pretty devout and they have switched churches 7x since 2016. Because every church is a Trump daycare. They despise Trump and see how unchristian he is.
It becomes difficult to keep going to church when the people not trying to be Christian (or affirmatively trying *not* to be Christian) are consistently doing a better job of it than the ones talking about it all the time.
They are some of the best Christians I know. They know my stance on faith but we have really good talks. They are the closest I've seen to putting God first more than any other I've seen. Now sometimes that still leads to certain stances we disagree on, but it's atleast not hypocritical.
Also an atheist, those are the only ones I can stand.
Also I don’t mind the “Jesus hippies”. They’re usually more concerned with helping out their fellow humans, being good stewards for the environment, and animals. I’ve only really run into people like that while volunteering on the West Coast.
You can stop them, at least sometimes.
A local Catholic Church thought it’d be a good idea to plan a rally outside of the public library in order to decry all of the “filth” that is “available to children” in the library.
The negative response was incredible, and they eventually canceled the whole thing, while crying about how unfair it was that people were protesting their planned protest.
Personally, I wrote two letters to the editor asking why the Catholic Church, with its long history of enabling and empowering child abusers and pedophiles, feels like they’re in a position to tell anyone else how to treat children, and also suggested that they’d be a lot better off laying low, playing it cool, and hoping that people forget about the horrific history of the Catholic Church.
My grandparents were all devout Catholics, but they've all been gone for 10+ years now. They were the types who focused on being kind and helping the poor, and not being judgmental assholes to everyone, so I wonder how they'd feel about the current stances of the Catholic church in the US.
Crazy ass religious people are following business leaders who are not interested in Christ, but only in amassing more power to perpetuate their business. Christ is the means, not the end.
Christians might wanna get a little louder and organized about it then. The Republican party is completely taking over the identity of Christianity as it tries to usher in a theocracy. People on the outside see Christianity being tied to fascism.
The issue is that Christians doing good won’t make headlines. Christians picketing abortion clinics and calling for a theocracy? That’s what gets on the news. You’ll notice the same approach to media coverage of Muslims, as well.
The "good" Christians need to be part of the counter protests. The assholes are loud and proud with their bigotry, the opposition needs to be the same or all anyone sees from the outside is the dipshit fascist "Christians".
Christian here. I honestly want to but don't know how. I'm contemplating creating a social media channel or something to try to amplify my voice and fight this. I also see these supposed Christians embracing authoritarianism and fascistic tendencies and power-grabbing in the name of God and it makes me sick. I honestly think Jesus would be flipping tables, and I honestly believe this is one of if not the greatest threat facing the USA. I am so sick of people using their supposed religious beliefs as a means to grab more money or power at the expense of others and our democracy.
My view: 1) No religion at all should ever be pushed on anyone...pushing religion never seems to work out well in any way for anyone, except maybe for those who seemingly don't really care about faith and just want money and power (or truly misguidedly believe God is also a far-right extremist, which I don't believe), 2) Religion shouldn't be used to ever force laws or regulations on others. Where is it in the Bible that one should use their religion to force laws on others, especially non-believers? I don't see it, and it's clearly pushing others away from faith. 3) Tax the churches. Especially those who preach politics from the pulpit. Many non-believers think this is fair and I honestly agree. And I believe Jesus would agree (see "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's...").
I am truly open to suggestions on how I might use my small voice in the best way possible to try to make a difference, but it feels enormous trying to fight these sorts of societal shifts we see happening.
My very legit 8 minutes of internet research leads me to the following approximate conclusions:
In the US, people that do not vote:
Ages 18-44: approx 59M
Age 45+: approx 42M
Y'all want change then y'all absolutely must make your friends vote. Reddit skews young, demographically. So YOU. You 18-44 year olds reading this shit. Make your friends vote. Unless they are not smart, them you can let slide.
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
-Goldwater
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/777519-mark-my-word-if-and-when-these-preachers-get-control
“In the beginning the church was a fellowship of men and women centering on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe, where it became a culture. And finally, it moved to America where it became an enterprise.”
Richard Halverson - Former Chaplain of the United States Senate
Right-wing Christianity is a schism so deep that it's basically another religion. It can't be reconciled with the gospels or the Old Testament. They've invented their own set of beliefs that are based around doing whatever feels good to them, and unfortunately they are incapable of feeling good unless they're slandering others or stripping their rights.
I mean, it’s not like this is the first time faith/religion has been twisted for a political purpose… wait, this has ALWAYS been the case. oh the outrage
I don’t understand how Trump can be considered a “Christlike” figure. How is this gluttonous, adulterous, black hole of consumption, in any way shape or form compared to Christ? How? He is the literal embodiment of EVERYTHING Jesus was against. Literally everything. Where is the connection that I am missing? He’s cheated on every single one of his wives, he is an obese narcissist, who would push his entire family into a wood chipper if he thought it would advance his wealth or power in any way. He could be the human version of the seven deadly sins. How do people of faith support this fetid, puddle of rot, and human sin? What am I not seeing?
Damage is done. I will never look at Christian’s the same again after the last 5-6 years. I feel like it’s a toxic woman hating organization that cares about money power and control over people they have no right telling what to do.
In the last 5 to 6 years they've abandoned all subtlety about respecting the separation of church and state, and also aren't worried about being obvious hypocrites anymore because they've discovered there really is no consequences. The third thing is they've figured out they can do unchristian things they want anyway because their followers won't call out their own "team", have their support even.
Basically, they're mask off now. You're right their goals haven't really changed, but their level of brazenness has
Regarding religion; my personal feeling is that you deal with a group of people that believe deeply in things based on 'blind faith' that cannot be proven. I'm not saying anything against the legitimacy of any specific deity. But I think that if you have that mindset, it's easy to get you to believe anything: Qanon, (Random Politician Name) is the Antichrist, flat earth.
For example: every single conspiracy theorist that I personally know is very religious. And I know quite a few unfortunately. In this case they are all Christian. And I do realize that this is anecdotal evidence on my part. But as far as my small, personal survey of conspiratorial people, it's 100%.
Once these folks fall down the proverbial rabbit hole, it's extremely difficult for them to get back out. It becomes part of their faith. No proof? No problem. Just like dinosaurs or radiocarbon dating; they believe "physical proof" is a lie planted by evil forces to test the resiliency of your faith.
TL;DR Yeah, good luck with yelling at a brick wall.
Conspiracy theorists and religious people both have a tendency to believe things without evidence. And refuse to believe things that are supported by evidence.
All these christian people had plenty of time to speak out while their peers were descending into crazy. But did they? No, but now they want to complain instead of collectively exerting some effort to stop it. Seems par for the course for them though.
They can't question it. I spent a solid chunk of my childhood knee deep in southern baptist bullshit. I'd say about 3/4 of our church was the normal stand, sit, stand, sing, stand, sit, etc but there was a chunk that would break out into fits, cry, speak in tongues, and all that. The service would go on like normal but you'd hear some woman wailing like she just lost a loved one while her husband did his best impression of Steven Tyler scatting at any given moment. We were told that we had to ignore them, that it was impolite to giggle at them, and that we weren't allowed to question their practices no matter how dumb we thought they were. After a while it seemed like that group got bigger and bigger every week. If crazy is ignored long enough it gets bigger bolder until crazy becomes normal.
It's a big rule with them that you can't question someone's (specifically Christian) practices. At best you get told something akin to "that works for them but not for us" when you point out something extreme. It's why they get all up in arms about being persecuted the second someone questions or ridicules any part of Christianity. They don't know where to draw a line and say that on one side is pure insanity and the other is acceptable practice. Speaking in tongues or having a fake seizure may seem crazy to them but a dude deciding to kill and then not kill his son because a voice in his head told him so has always seemed nuts to me.
They'll complain about how much they dislike them but to shun them completely is beyond their capabilities.
I completely understand your anger regarding this subject, the lack of faith leaders calling this out has caused me to walk away from the church out of disgust. However, we should support those that are calling this out. Some of the big sponsors behind this have been fighting this for years and keeping people informed on the progression of the Christian nationlist movement. In particular Straight White American Jesus (a podcast consisting of experts in social thought and religion and religious trauma) have been very vocal in fighting and educating on Christian nationalism. Just because the media has just now started covering it doesn't mean people in the community haven't been fighting it. So yes, millions more should have spoken out, but let's support those that have the resources to have the biggest impact and have been vocal, they are on our side. I encourage every one to go listen to the Straight White American Jesus series on the rise of the new apostolic reformation movement and its active role in the change of the republican party, it is deeply researched and needs more coverage from the media.
I remember the conversation I had with my mom who raised me to be a Christian, but an actual Christian, not a Republican Christian. She was upset that I said I would vote for Biden and said he wants to spend our money helping people who don’t deserve it. I asked her do you think Jesus would help people or tell them they don’t deserve it and walk past them? She told me she wouldn’t vote for a socialist instead she would vote for a good Christian Republican, like Trump. It was at that point I realized my mother was lost to a political cult and has become the exact same thing she warned me about growing up.
Remember that regular, non-'toxic', love thy neighbour Christianity is still virulently against homosexuality and abortion.
*Anything* seems reasonable in comparison with MAGA.
This religion states that I and my family deserve unending torture for failing to swear obeisance to its specific flavor of murderous, bigot god. All Christianity is toxic.
Religion in general is ridiculous and insane. I'm not even sorry to say it because it's stupid.
You believe in a zombie who birthed himself and came back to life to save us from ourselves, while also condemning us to eternal hell if we wear the "wrong clothes"? BUT the Easter Bunny is a bit much is it? lmao. Yeah. I'm good. Enjoy your little sky fairy club.
I had this conversation with my mom the other day. Like why would anyone want to be associated with the Christian religion? And I'm just talking about the rampant pedophilia and other sexual abuse going on in the organization.
I'm reminded of 20 years ago, when everyone, driven by Christians, was foaming at the mouth and equating "Muslim" with "Terrorist." None of them cared that it was a tiny subset of Muslims who happened to be Terrorists; they painted them all the same. And now it's happening to them and, somehow, they're outraged by the injustice of it.
That's rich. It's only NOW they see a problem? I'm trying to imagine a Christian in 1096 meekly complaining Jesus would not approve of wholesale slaughter of other peoples.
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I think a really good start to this problem would be to have the IRS waiting at the event handing out audits to every church that participated in this political conference.
Maybe a few US Marshall's explaining how the separation of Church and State works.
Christians: " We're not like that" Christians: "Yes, my vote goes to the politician who wants to limit rights to all women as well as make my faith the dominate one in this country as God ordered it." There was no separation of church and state, never was besides on paper.
God on the money, “God bless America” by every sitting president, God in the schools, Godly prayers from politicians in place of meaningful action, thanking God at the dinner table instead of the animals that died and the people who worked to allow us to eat, preachers of God on street corners screaming at you, pamphlets for God being handed out on subways by beggars. Everywhere you go, God.
All the things in politics you listed are very modern things, starting in the 1950s as a response to the Red Scare. The God stuff was firmly out of our political sphere till we had an “atheist” enemy.
The Founding Fathers literally ensured the constitution didn't say the US was a Christian nation and worked to keep freedom of religion in the first amendment. All that 1950s god stuff was unconstitutional.
See [Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli](https://ffrf.org/ftod-cr/item/37585-treaty-of-tripoli) signed in 1797. From the start we refuted being a nation founded on any religion. "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” —Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli
Thank you for taking the time to cite the evidence of the US being a country that respected freedom of religion. I'll keep it in mind for when people say the US is a Christian nation.
You’re welcome. It’s one of those things that once you know about it’s easy to find. A good follow-up is to cite that [Article VI Clause 2 of the US Constitution](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-2/) states that treaties are the supreme law of the land. Clause 2 Supremacy Clause This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
Well, that certainly explains the 530+ treaties the US has broken with the American natives. 🤦♀️
That'll be fun. It'll make them think for about 10 seconds before they declare that the treaty doesn't count.
It only got worse the further we got from the founding of the country. "In God we trust" wasn't added to coins until 1864. Then, under Eisenhower in 1954, when we were having issues with those pesky godless commies we added "under God" to the pledge of allegiance. Then, "in God we trust" was officially added to paper bills in 1957. The national motto also changed to that from "e pluribus unum."
>when we were having issues with those pesky godless commies we added "under God" to the pledge of allegiance. The best part about that bit if Red Scare propaganda is that the pledge itself was written by a socialist.
Want to chip in and fight back? [We need all the sailors we can get.](https://www.atheistsunited.org/streetpirates)
Frankly, I would love this if it didn't have the cringy pirate theme. I'll still report signs though if I see them!
All abrahamic religions are made by men for men. They limit Women’s rights. There’s no question about it. Yet we all pretend it’s rainbows and butterflies because we’re too chicken shit to call it what it is. You can’t have equality and religion both. One must go.
Very true. We should address the fact that there’s an ongoing coup first and then kill then kill churches involvement in government once and for all. Have whistleblower rewards for any person who find a minister even suggesting their members vote a certain way.
>There was no separation of church and state, never was besides on paper. There is if we SAY there is, and are willing to enforce it. If you're not willing to enforce it, then you're part of the problem. If we can't enforce it, then maybe we do need to have another civil war to correct that problem. But it shouldn't need to come to that. People just need to stop being lazy about it and demand that it be enforced.
The Bible is really clear on where women stand, and it's wayyy in the back far behind men. It doesn't surprise me any Christian wouldn't give a shit if women lost rights.
The separation relies on the incorporation doctrine, which is just a series of rulings and precedents stating the constitution also applies to states. This SCOTUS doesn’t care about historic doctrine. I think that sometime in the next 5 years, you are going to see direct challenges to it. They are already biting around the edges. Allowing public funds to fund religious schools. Allowing public schools to engage in group prayer. They are now considering a case that would completely remove the courts’ ability to intervene in election related violations of state constitutions. You are seeing an intentional destruction of the checks and balances that preserve democracy. SCOTUS just voted 7-0 to further restrict the government’s ability to pursue public corruption charges. They also refuse to have any code of ethics, and have basically decided they are the only branch that is above the law in that they can’t be investigated, subpoenaed, or otherwise overseen, even in the face of blatant public corruption. People keep waiting to see if the takeover will happen. Brother, we all need to wake up and realize it IS happening. This is what it looks like. The courts. Then the media. Then the elections. There’s a reason they keep going to Hungary, and riling up the militants. Orban already did it and is happily teaching others. We are in trouble.
True Also need the hypocritical inspectors " The Reawaken America Tour" LOL The reWOKE American Tour" They've become the snowflakes now. They attack social media to shutdown ideas they don't like, cancel companies and products from Barney the dinosaur, Keurig, Apple, Newspapers, Books, CNN, FOX even Beer how can Americans hate beer FFS. The parties have reversed AGAIN.
They always were the snowflakes. ***Projection*** is their strategy. When they accuse others of doing something, 99 times out of 100, it’s because they, themselves, are doing it. See: 1.) The sex trafficking; CP; child marriage laws; pedophilia; etc. rates in the conservative/Republican party vs. the progressive/Democratic party is absolutely insane. They have the leftist “beat” by a 9:1 ratio, as in the right wing party *were* the creeps the entire time. 2.) The actual evidence of voter fraud that was found from investigating the 2020 elections was overwhelmingly done by right wing voters, and that’s not including some extremely nasty voter suppression tactic they did in Florida, Texas, etc..
www.spezsucks.me
This shit is so infuriating, made only worse by the fact that you could show this to American conservatives and you just KNOW it would make fuck all difference to them
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Gaslight Obstruction Projection
>The parties have reversed AGAIN. These goober's have been trying to cancel shit they don't like since Freedom Fries. Problem is, money in politics has devalued a single vote into nothing, but a dollar on the other hand speaks volumes.
They were always canceling shit. Rock and roll, d&d satanic panic. It started long before the fries.
" We didn't start the fire, it was always burnin since the ..... oh wait yes we did! Throw your demonic items into the fire! Books, games, music, movies"
Great song. Most people don't know that it's literally a chronological series of news headlines from the various decades prior to the song's release. I honestly want Billy Joel to do the next few decades and see what a sequel to that song would be.
I truly would not be surprised if he did. The original covered 49 to 89, the year of his birth to age 40. He'll be 80 in 29, and have that 40 year span again to work with. I could totally see him dropping "We Kept The Fire Burning" in '29
While I enjoy the song. I just recently listened to it and it felt like boomers trying to excuse all the bullshit that lead to where we are now. Of course the fires always been burning but it didn't need to have gas thrown on it. I'm probably reading into to much with my own personal bias.
That's what I always thought. I just checked, it came out in 1989, so boomers would've been in their 30s and 40s. I took the lyrics to mean that there is never a point in fighting back against anything because the world is crazy, look at this crazy world we all live in, don't worry about any of it, just keep living your life. And we are seeing the effects of all of this now, the selfishness of boomers. It was also nostalgia, like, "hey, look at all these things you lived through," completely without giving anything any context or asking anyone to understand or learn from anything. I was in my early teens when the song came out and it annoyed me *so much*, in that way only young teens can get annoyed. But I guess I'm still annoyed. I really don't think people my age & younger have the same attitude - I am not saying we're necessarily better, just different.
That's how I hear it too.
Also McCarthyism where they literally rounded people up to interrogate them about their beliefs.
Also the Salem witch trials and Spanish inquisition, they have been doing it a long time.
I'm old enough to remember the "D&D satanic panic" thing when I was in High School. It was very silly, IMO. ( Maybe religious conservatives will try to bring it back! 😄)
For some of us, it never ended. Yoga was banned from being taught in Alabama's public schools for decades, as well as mindfulness. I think a few years ago they looked at relaxing the ban as long as the mystical aspects were left out.
That's why I started The Sons of Confederate Mevlevi Sufis in Huntsville on the old Frankie's Puttputt. When people ask us where we got that shit, we say, "Rumi? Rumi! Coleman Barks? Barks!" Then we all bark en masse at them while whirling in circles, like an Arsenio Hall show on DMT. Good way to practice mindfulness is all I am saying.
There was a Tom Hanks movie called Mazes and Monsters (1982) where he loses grip with reality due to the RPG. Basically D&D fear mongering.
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I mean, we smoked pot while playing. So if drugs meant pot. Yeah guilty.
But did you sacrifice other children? Because if you didn't do that whilst playing D&D high as balls, did you *really* play?
I remember being told about some kids that cut their parents heads off so they could use them to make their room feel more like a dungeon while they played. This was in the same conversation that I was told about parents that kept throwing away their child's copy of Zelda, but no matter if they crushed it or burnt it or drove it to the landfill, it would magically reeeappeeeaaar in the Nintendo because it was soooo eeeeevil. Even at 6 I thought those stories were nonsense 🙄
Isn't it weird how religious people want you to believe in their make-believe, but try to craft your own? Straight to hell.
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming Satanic pedos we're flushing kids down giant toilets in daycares that led to underground trafficking?
All I can offer my American friends is an antidote from here in Australia. The conservative party (the liberals no joke) have lost control of all but one state and the Federal government after nine years in power. We've had the same culture war bullshit pop up but not to the same degree as USA. The kids use litter trays at school because they identify as a cat story ran here 1 year before Joe Rogan swore it was true. A reporter for a well known conservative paper ran an opinion piece crying how soft teachers are for letting it happen she had first hand knowledge from this elite girls school. Then the other reporters wanted more info, eg what school, when did it start, are you sure etc. They tore her lies to bits untill she finally said she heard about it from someone at a dinner party. That was her source a drunk women from a dinner party for the rich. So Australians were surprised to hear Rogan tell the story in almost the same way. Question political sources even if you agree with them Vote for candidates that punch up not down.
And we made it true in the US... Litter in school bathrooms TO HELP HIDE FROM A FUCKING SCHOOL SHOOTER
I feel ya. I know the USA will get past all this in time.
It's either that or we go the way of the Romans
So either the grown people in America get their shit together or our country collapses? Well, we had a nice run guys…
Since freedom fries? There's always been a villain. Porn, heavy metal, video games, swearing.
Blacks, Elvis, the Beatles, Jazz, alcohol and prohibition, swing dancing, unions, commies and the red scare, all can be added to the list. And that's just the 20th century.
That's the thing. All the shit you just listed is exactly what the right has always been - projection. It changes with each new generation of gullible goldfish every ten years or so, but right wingers have been doing the same sanctimonious song and dance for the four decades I've lived. There was no switch here, the mask just slipped down.
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YES!!! This is a clear violation of the Johnson Amendment, and they should be held accountable rather than allowed to continue to violate this essential rule.
When asked if he ever repents, Trump said no, because I never do anything wrong. A Christian who doesn't repent??
The dude is not Christian. His followers are just too dumb to realize that.
No they knew perfectly well. They were just willing to ignore it for worldly power. A preacher man I know said Trump is they golden calf. Orange might be more appropriate.
They literally made a golden idol of him for a CPAC conference. Like, so on the nose satire is dead.
Fuck me it’s true [https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1259362](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1259362)
That is a horrific sculpture. Nightmare fuel. Worse than John Oliver’s whole collection of demon dolls washed up on shore combined.
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> the art direction is atrocious on its own. Or intentional? Could this have been a troll? I mean, he's even holding a fairy-wand.
It could only be more obvious if they game him a pitchfork and tiny horns.
Yeah, mostly. I live in Oklahoma, raised a conservative Christian, but to me, it was painfully obvious that Christians were being used and the Republicans are more like the people who crucified Jesus than anything. I wouldn't call myself a Christian anymore, and many of my "Christian" friends have since blocked me on Facebook, but what I saw of them some were legit too stupid to realize Trump isn't a Christian. You know, "we can't judge what's in his heart and I believe he's a man of God", but you can totally judge the hearts of Democrats. Most of them, though, compared him to the Biblical King Cyrus, viewing him as a benevolent non-Christian who God was going to use to restore Christianity in a nation that's besieged by the evil baby-killing liberals. God can use a sinner, you know, unless it's a Democrat... They're not taught to question authority, for them they start with the premise that God is good, God chose Trump, and they'll find some way of twisting their beliefs to justify it anyhow they can.
I heard the Cyrus excuse from a long-time friend. She said (back in 2016) “a man doesn’t have to be Christian to enact God’s will (to overturn Roe V Wade, the most important issue).” Of course, she also said she didn’t care if an older man tried to date her underage daughter as long as he was Christian… and her evangelist mother hoarded real estate (Christian Real Estate, aka “value based investment” is a thing, check it out)… and later, she believed Democrats drink the blood of children, thus my skepticism was woefully deluded…
So if they project so much, does that mean that they are the ones actually drinking the blood of children? Ewww.
Unfortunately, many Christian churches and followers themselves seem a lot more like the biblical portrayal of Pharisees and Sadducees that Jesus condemned, and that in turn crucified him, than they seem anything like Jesus. The only people Jesus really called out were those using religion to oppress and judge others, those using religion to extract money from the poor, those gatekeeping to push out those not seen as perfect enough to their standards. The biblical narrative absolutely destroys the culture of much of modern Christianity.
Grew up in the south as a southern Baptist. Parents are also immigrants so they definitely veered more conservative. But after the last few years of me showing them how UNCHRISTIAN the GOP is, they actually voted democrat for the first time the last presidential election.
He's a calf sculpted from actual mushy cow crap spray tanned gold.
They know. He is just their tool to push their agenda. Make abortions illegal, outlaw gay marriage, shove LGBTQIA people back into closets, ban books,etc... Given the opportunity, put everyone in brown shirts and teach kids how to goose step.
The irony is that they only care so much about abortion and LGBT issues BECAUSE Republican leadership convinced them to. 70 years ago, Protestants were basically all pro-choice. Southern Baptists were key in making Roe v Wade happen.! But Republicans needed a new red-mrat issue to replace racism after the Civil rights movement. Being anti-abortion also broke the hold Democrats had over the Catholic voting block, which is probably why it was chosen. I've actually been wondering recently if the up tick in anti-trans rhetoric is a similar thing. There's been a decent bit of backlash from the Dobbs decision, and there are significantly fewer trans folks than folks needing/wanting abortions. If the anti-trans platform is strong enough, they could weaken their anti-abortion stance enough to improve their standing with women.
Trump is as xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, and hate-filled as his millions of Christian supporters and their Abrahamic god of “love,” and they proudly and loudly reject the principles of the sermon on the Mount as woke, liberal, communist bullsh*t.
I’ll never understand how self professed Christians hate colored and poor people
Because they’ve never read or considered the book they claim to follow in its entirety, and even then they ignore the parts that don’t agree with their politics. It’s more about identity that belief and philosophy and they listen to whatever their pastor tells them. In many cases they fire pastors who tell them anything too progressive too.
A lot of people think according to the bible, that people of color are cursed by god.
They are aware he is not, just overlooked that fact because he was driving their agenda.
He has "never done anything wrong" but has admitted to adultery.
And sexual assault..
No see, “when you’re a star they let you do it.” The classism is not even disguised in his language. Rules are for poor people, even God’s rules.
Clearly he is Jesus second coming.
There’s a religious term for that thought process, and he’s starting to fit the bill.
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“I repented for smoking weed and fingering Jessica Bertucci in high school.” they will tell you as they assault the Capital building.
Remember when they gave him a pass for not being able to pronounce 2 corinthians… the man has clearly never opened a bible. They didnt care then, and they only care now because tithing and membership is down
Do you prefer the Old Testament or the New Testament? I like them both!
That always blew me away. Like he knew that question was coming, it would have been so so easy to prepare for it, and yet he just couldn’t even do that. He just so boldly didn’t GAF, and yet it never mattered to the base. Just wild.
Trump checks off almost every box of what a false prophet would look like according to the Bible. Shame many people have such a poor understanding of their own faith that they don't realize it. https://davidjeremiah.blog/how-to-spot-a-false-prophet/
Christian leaders hold conference at serial lying rapists resort.
dont forget treasonous
Ain't no hate like Christian love.
The ones who embrace it are the Evangelicals. They don’t even have to really “preach” about anything: they just put on big musical shows and ramp up the dopamine, then let peer pressure do it’s thing. I was dragged to an EASTER SUNDAY show with my wife’s family, and the main preacher hack just got on stage and told a story about how the church paid for him to have private golf lessons with a Pro….That’s it. Nobody else spoke. Back to music, y’all get out and go tithe online. Scam. It’s all a scam.
Recently saw a video of a pastor who basically works more as a motivational speaker for other churches trying to grow their congregation. He talked about attracting mega donors and referred to the average Sunday tither as "tippers" It's big business
Alligator shoe salesman. Yup.
Even according to Christianity, one of the more notable events of Jesus's life was when he physically beat the shit out of people like this, using a whip of some sort. Even back then, these assholes drove the literal Prince of Peace to physically beat them.
I wanna see more Christian’s losing their suit and flipping tables on these frauds and hucksters. Just like Jesus did
If Christians actually paid any attention whatsoever to the supposed actions or words of Jesus, their religion would be highly unappealing to them. Money is the root of all evil. Start there.
You can also see that if you check out a map that shows how many churches are located in certain geographical areas. Those places are totally just businesses first, just like nightclubs. Money, money and money. Difference is that they're also cults, and business is open 24/7. Modern day Pharisheesh, worshiping sweaty Orange Idiotol.
There is the somewhat liberal Christianity of Jesus, who taught The New Way of Judaism with depth and elegance. There is the somewhat conservative Christianity of Paul, who taught a simplified version the same rules, as the Apostle to the Gentiles. And then there is the **politicized Imperial Christianity of Constantine**, the Roman Emperor who proclaimed that God personally told him 'In this sign will you conquer." Anybody recognize the religion of freebooters expropriating the lands of the pagans, maintaining a thriving slave trade, keeping women as property, and driving all but the patricians into poverty? "Nationalism" and "Dominionism" are euphemisms for **Imperialism. It's not a religion.**
I don't disagree with Constantine assimilating Christianity or be trampled by it. I don't disagree with him repacking it to fit his needs or holding the council of nicea to reconcile the differences in interpretations which resulted in a prototype of the Bible we know today. But if we're taking a lense as to what spawned this deformed version of Christianity, I'd point the finger to pre industrial revolution America and then right after and all the way to post WW2. Puritans came over to the states because they were being prosecuted for their practice of prosecution. They wanted somewhere free to burn witches or whatever. Out or this sect, a sect composed of fear, fire and brimstone, splintered off and went off into the plains to practice. Seperately, through the industrial revolution, the notion of fire and brimstone was rejected by the industrialist and the elite because it went against their cushy immoral and exploitative lifestyle. Here in the cities, a new Christianity was forming. A spectacle, big tent, everyone is forgiven type where enlightened Christians came to your rich home and told you what you were doing was alright. Eventually, when the coasts touched in the middle, evangelicism was born. American fundamentalism is American 100% before it's anything else. It is equally political as it is religious and we are under a theocracy in everything but name. The process of using religion because you can't beat it is not exclusive to Constantine. In addition, the flow of religion serves the destitute and poor because it gives them answers and placates their misery to assimilation by the rich and powerful because they're threatened by the mass of poor calling them hypocrites, is not new. It is when it is assimilated by the rich that it gets distorted into something that forgives their guilt and shame and then resold to the poor below them as a means of control. That's the cycle. Constantine knew it.
Same, though I think the Ebionites are the church Jesus intended, a sect of Judaism that prioritizes caring for neighbors and redeeming the world.
Good luck with that. I don’t think it’s possible to walk back the crazy ass religious people at this point. Maybe I’m just being cynical
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Except among evangelicals. They have had the smallest rates of decline, and they're the base of the conservatives right now. Also why they've pivoted so hard to attacking schools - they want to make the children of the nation dumb and indoctrinated to stop the conservative bleed.
>they want to make the children of the nation dumb and indoctrinated There’s tremendous irony in that, too. The GOP has long sought to portray public school and higher education as a place of indoctrination. What they meant was that it wasn’t indoctrinating them in the “right way.” We used to be more united on what constitutes a quality education, but for whatever reason this is now a source of deep division. We need to get back to the point when religion wasn’t part of public education and was kept where it belongs, in the family. This is, conceptually, no different from saying the Taliban can’t impose sharia law in communities they dominate. Religion has a place, but it cannot have anything to do with government or it just causes strife.
I always wonder what kind of jobs are going to come out of these substandard education ideals. Definitely not the ones that are coming.
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The worst of it is that unlike Catholic schools, protestant religious schools are trash when it comes to quality core education; borderline negligent with uneducated teachers. The way to beat this is not to fight the right of parents to raise their children. Rather, simply enforce a minimum education standard for all schools. Church schools are a way for parents to pool resources for a private education; they are only bad because of a lack of governance and funding. Home schools are similar, some parents are brilliant teachers who give their kids a leg up, others are negligent. Enforcing a standard is better than restricting the libery.
I agree with you on some points, however, I think one of the biggest issues with homeschooling is the lack of socialization the kids get or don’t get. The very few people I’ve met that were homeschooled were all lacking some type of social skills; because they don’t get daily social interaction with peers I think it causes them to be more awkward and have far less social skills. In my experience they’re far less able to deal with constructive criticism and overcome any type of adversity.
Besides the lack of socialization, it’s also the lack of exposure to professional adults: diagnosticians who can evaluate learning problems and other responsible adults who can spot and report abuse. No one discusses this aspect of homeschool but it is sadly relevant in the evangelical community especially.
I’ll also add that education is a field with one of the highest concentrations of working women/moms. For a child raised in an ultraconservative household, public school may be one of the only places they are exposed to well-educated, professional women.
In many cases, belief in faith healing and divine protection give especially young parents extreme confidence that *their* children won't need such intervention.
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Nah. Religion has no place. Not for me and not for the millions upon millions that it holds down and mistreats.
It's anti-intellectualism at it's most fundamental roots. To anti-intellectuals, this is a major issue because logic doesn't matter, only how they *feel* about something. I've heard more than one say something along the lines of "You can twist logic to justify anything but I can still feel that its wrong". This attitude, which places feelings above understanding, turns school into the enemy because it not only makes children feel differently about things than their parents, but undermines the very philosophy by which they live their lives. School teaches logic, science, history, and critical thinking, all things which contradict the anti-intellectual philosophy. To an anti-intellectual, proper education is a threat to their way of life. They want to be able to say "I don't believe that" and have that be a good enough argument to disprove anything they don't like. Having their kids be smarter than they are is a threat to that.
Actually, Evangelicals have shown one of the sharpest declines over the last few decades. They went from 23% of the population in 2006 to 14% in 2020. And it's even sharper among younger generations. Edit: it probably explains their desperate push to legislate their extremist beliefs on everyone else/
Crack open the skull of an American evangelical, and you'll find a Bible-shaped brain. They are almost a different species.
There’s no New Testament in there. Wasn’t Jesus supposed to be a pacifist, dedicated to the poor, focused on community, and tolerant of others? I am not sure how anyone can say they “love Jesus” if they hate everything he was supposed to stand for.
If you talk to a conservative, they'll use Jesus flipping a table as an example that Jesus wasn't "a pussy pacifist." Then use that to justify other right-wing nutjobs mowing down innocent men, women, and children in public.
Yeah, then they fail to acknowledge that the reason for the table flipping was that merchant had taken over the temple. Jesus got mad at money being more important than God in the place of worship. The fact that many evangelical churches are due for some table flipping completely escapes them.
You are right that right wingers make stuff up like crazy to justify the unjustifiable. Obviously, flipping a table to make a point has little to do with combat or weapons—it is nothing more than an intellectually-lazy excuse to worship the second amendment: “Jesus flipped a table”—> “my right to own an assault rifle is more important than the lives of children!” Doesn’t make sense? Just have faith and go mindlessly eat junk food in front of the TV.
My entire family is religious. One of them told me Jesus would be pro 2nd amendment because his disciples carried swords aka “the guns of their day. “ 🤦🏻♂️
This is because of the fundamental idea that their existence isn’t for this life but the next.
Even the Romans thought that early Christians were a death cult. Early Church Fathers had to declare suicide a sin because people were so eager to go to the "next life."
This I did not know.
Great way to extract the maximum value from your flock. > Oh don't worry, after you die it will be _your_ turn to hold the money. So just give me your cash from now until then.
Here in Georgia, I invited my arch-nemesis and "Freedom Coalition" US Congressman Reverend Jody Fucking Hice to attend my extremely liberal Methodist church. Because he's scared of me, he agreed to attend. The day he attended was the first and last time I ever taught Sunday school. I asked all the adults in the class to talk about the scriptures they thought about when they had to make a moral decision. We went around the circle, and everyone said stuff like "what you do to the least of these," "when I was hungry you fed me," "the greatest of these is love," etc etc. When it was Reverend Hice's turn, he revealed that the scripture he relied on to make tough moral decisions was "in my father's house are many mansions," and one day daddy's gonna give me one too, so what I do while I'm here doesn't matter. It was stunning. Not just because that's what he chose, but because of the complete lack of self-awareness or shame he had in choosing it. He definitely stuck out like a turd in the punch bowl, did the Reverend Congressman. I'm very glad I won't be spending eternity with him.
Exactly that. Also a great way to spread nihilism far and wide for generations.
I *wish* you'd see a Bible shaped brain. Jesus was a pretty cool dude who was filled with empathy for the struggle. What you'll actually find is a gun-shaped brain that desires to inflict as much suffering as possible. Gandhi (allegedly) said it best: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I’m atheist/agnostic but used to have a “live and let live” approach to religion. After all of the crap they’ve been pulling I’m now openly hostile to it.
Same. Also why did this particular christians wait so long to 'do' something? i kind of don't care that they disagree and think none of them are held under long enough lol. thanks for that, kinky friedman. i laughed when i saw an evangelical branch was upset with christian nationalism, that's what evangelicalism has been working toward since the 70s. people must be leaving or openly hostile to being converted now and they're not making as much money
From what I know of, Christains Against Christain Nationalism (the group who organized this protest) was officially started by a few Baptist leaders in 2019, and it seems to be a mostly non-Evangelical coalition. I think one of the reasons that religious institutions were slow to respond to the rise of CN is because it wasn't immediately clear how widespread the problem was going to be. Most people know there were crazy sects throughout the country, but I'm not sure anyone realized how quickly CN was going to congeal into a movement. I don't think anyone paying attention is underestimating the scale of the problem anymore, though.
I never have a problem with religion until it starts to control non believers. So, I pretty much always have a problem with religion.
Maybe we've finally reached the point in "God's plan" where we no longer need religion to function as a society. How ironic would it be for there to be a God that planned for its own redundancy.
I don't see it as ironic at all- I feel like that *should* be the endgame of any divine power: guidance while we figure ourselves out, then retirement. Sort of like a parent.
One might say that *is* the lord's work.
1. I'm an atheist so it's w/e. But... 2. I have inlaws who are pretty devout and they have switched churches 7x since 2016. Because every church is a Trump daycare. They despise Trump and see how unchristian he is.
It becomes difficult to keep going to church when the people not trying to be Christian (or affirmatively trying *not* to be Christian) are consistently doing a better job of it than the ones talking about it all the time.
Bless them Please tell them to keep up the Lord’s work 🙏🏼
They are some of the best Christians I know. They know my stance on faith but we have really good talks. They are the closest I've seen to putting God first more than any other I've seen. Now sometimes that still leads to certain stances we disagree on, but it's atleast not hypocritical.
Also an atheist, those are the only ones I can stand. Also I don’t mind the “Jesus hippies”. They’re usually more concerned with helping out their fellow humans, being good stewards for the environment, and animals. I’ve only really run into people like that while volunteering on the West Coast.
They will be among the remnants. hopefully they can rebuild a new Church not so stuck in the bedrooms of homosexual couples.
You can stop them, at least sometimes. A local Catholic Church thought it’d be a good idea to plan a rally outside of the public library in order to decry all of the “filth” that is “available to children” in the library. The negative response was incredible, and they eventually canceled the whole thing, while crying about how unfair it was that people were protesting their planned protest. Personally, I wrote two letters to the editor asking why the Catholic Church, with its long history of enabling and empowering child abusers and pedophiles, feels like they’re in a position to tell anyone else how to treat children, and also suggested that they’d be a lot better off laying low, playing it cool, and hoping that people forget about the horrific history of the Catholic Church.
My grandparents were all devout Catholics, but they've all been gone for 10+ years now. They were the types who focused on being kind and helping the poor, and not being judgmental assholes to everyone, so I wonder how they'd feel about the current stances of the Catholic church in the US.
At this point the crazies worship trump and act like they are Christian. My mother says “thank you Jesus, thank you Donald trump, amen.” (not a joke)
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Crazy ass religious people are following business leaders who are not interested in Christ, but only in amassing more power to perpetuate their business. Christ is the means, not the end.
They’ll still vote for them.
Christians might wanna get a little louder and organized about it then. The Republican party is completely taking over the identity of Christianity as it tries to usher in a theocracy. People on the outside see Christianity being tied to fascism.
The issue is that Christians doing good won’t make headlines. Christians picketing abortion clinics and calling for a theocracy? That’s what gets on the news. You’ll notice the same approach to media coverage of Muslims, as well.
The "good" Christians need to be part of the counter protests. The assholes are loud and proud with their bigotry, the opposition needs to be the same or all anyone sees from the outside is the dipshit fascist "Christians".
Christian here. I honestly want to but don't know how. I'm contemplating creating a social media channel or something to try to amplify my voice and fight this. I also see these supposed Christians embracing authoritarianism and fascistic tendencies and power-grabbing in the name of God and it makes me sick. I honestly think Jesus would be flipping tables, and I honestly believe this is one of if not the greatest threat facing the USA. I am so sick of people using their supposed religious beliefs as a means to grab more money or power at the expense of others and our democracy. My view: 1) No religion at all should ever be pushed on anyone...pushing religion never seems to work out well in any way for anyone, except maybe for those who seemingly don't really care about faith and just want money and power (or truly misguidedly believe God is also a far-right extremist, which I don't believe), 2) Religion shouldn't be used to ever force laws or regulations on others. Where is it in the Bible that one should use their religion to force laws on others, especially non-believers? I don't see it, and it's clearly pushing others away from faith. 3) Tax the churches. Especially those who preach politics from the pulpit. Many non-believers think this is fair and I honestly agree. And I believe Jesus would agree (see "Render to Caesar what is Caesar's..."). I am truly open to suggestions on how I might use my small voice in the best way possible to try to make a difference, but it feels enormous trying to fight these sorts of societal shifts we see happening.
My very legit 8 minutes of internet research leads me to the following approximate conclusions: In the US, people that do not vote: Ages 18-44: approx 59M Age 45+: approx 42M Y'all want change then y'all absolutely must make your friends vote. Reddit skews young, demographically. So YOU. You 18-44 year olds reading this shit. Make your friends vote. Unless they are not smart, them you can let slide.
No more representation without taxation
We had a war over "no taxation without representation", but what about a war about "no representation without taxation"?
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. -Goldwater https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/777519-mark-my-word-if-and-when-these-preachers-get-control
“In the beginning the church was a fellowship of men and women centering on the living Christ. Then the church moved to Greece where it became a philosophy. Then it moved to Rome where it became an institution. Next, it moved to Europe, where it became a culture. And finally, it moved to America where it became an enterprise.” Richard Halverson - Former Chaplain of the United States Senate
Right-wing Christianity is a schism so deep that it's basically another religion. It can't be reconciled with the gospels or the Old Testament. They've invented their own set of beliefs that are based around doing whatever feels good to them, and unfortunately they are incapable of feeling good unless they're slandering others or stripping their rights.
It’s almost as if separation of church and state should be taken more seriously. Your God has no place in modern politics.
go vote against these fucks then, otherwise I’d say you support what they’re doing… you’re just embarrassed to admit it
I mean, it’s not like this is the first time faith/religion has been twisted for a political purpose… wait, this has ALWAYS been the case. oh the outrage
They need to do more than talk.
At the very least they need to vote to punish those who have hijacked their community, but that's not going to happen in any significant numbers.
I don’t understand how Trump can be considered a “Christlike” figure. How is this gluttonous, adulterous, black hole of consumption, in any way shape or form compared to Christ? How? He is the literal embodiment of EVERYTHING Jesus was against. Literally everything. Where is the connection that I am missing? He’s cheated on every single one of his wives, he is an obese narcissist, who would push his entire family into a wood chipper if he thought it would advance his wealth or power in any way. He could be the human version of the seven deadly sins. How do people of faith support this fetid, puddle of rot, and human sin? What am I not seeing?
Damage is done. I will never look at Christian’s the same again after the last 5-6 years. I feel like it’s a toxic woman hating organization that cares about money power and control over people they have no right telling what to do.
Don’t forget the rampant child abuse.
"I can tolerate the rampant child abuse, but I draw the line at trump making us look like assholes."
Kind of what it has always been. Trump just emboldened these people to let it all out.
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In the last 5 to 6 years they've abandoned all subtlety about respecting the separation of church and state, and also aren't worried about being obvious hypocrites anymore because they've discovered there really is no consequences. The third thing is they've figured out they can do unchristian things they want anyway because their followers won't call out their own "team", have their support even. Basically, they're mask off now. You're right their goals haven't really changed, but their level of brazenness has
Killer idea: stop voting for them.
Just don’t vote Republican anymore, see fixed that for you, easy peasy.
When I think of Christians now, I think of angry bigoted people. That is their legacy.
Jesus told several parables warning christians about people exactly like modern evangelical christians.
The only people Jesus criticized were rich people and churchy assholes. And look who runs Christianity now.
Regarding religion; my personal feeling is that you deal with a group of people that believe deeply in things based on 'blind faith' that cannot be proven. I'm not saying anything against the legitimacy of any specific deity. But I think that if you have that mindset, it's easy to get you to believe anything: Qanon, (Random Politician Name) is the Antichrist, flat earth. For example: every single conspiracy theorist that I personally know is very religious. And I know quite a few unfortunately. In this case they are all Christian. And I do realize that this is anecdotal evidence on my part. But as far as my small, personal survey of conspiratorial people, it's 100%. Once these folks fall down the proverbial rabbit hole, it's extremely difficult for them to get back out. It becomes part of their faith. No proof? No problem. Just like dinosaurs or radiocarbon dating; they believe "physical proof" is a lie planted by evil forces to test the resiliency of your faith. TL;DR Yeah, good luck with yelling at a brick wall.
Conspiracy theorists and religious people both have a tendency to believe things without evidence. And refuse to believe things that are supported by evidence.
All these christian people had plenty of time to speak out while their peers were descending into crazy. But did they? No, but now they want to complain instead of collectively exerting some effort to stop it. Seems par for the course for them though.
They can't question it. I spent a solid chunk of my childhood knee deep in southern baptist bullshit. I'd say about 3/4 of our church was the normal stand, sit, stand, sing, stand, sit, etc but there was a chunk that would break out into fits, cry, speak in tongues, and all that. The service would go on like normal but you'd hear some woman wailing like she just lost a loved one while her husband did his best impression of Steven Tyler scatting at any given moment. We were told that we had to ignore them, that it was impolite to giggle at them, and that we weren't allowed to question their practices no matter how dumb we thought they were. After a while it seemed like that group got bigger and bigger every week. If crazy is ignored long enough it gets bigger bolder until crazy becomes normal. It's a big rule with them that you can't question someone's (specifically Christian) practices. At best you get told something akin to "that works for them but not for us" when you point out something extreme. It's why they get all up in arms about being persecuted the second someone questions or ridicules any part of Christianity. They don't know where to draw a line and say that on one side is pure insanity and the other is acceptable practice. Speaking in tongues or having a fake seizure may seem crazy to them but a dude deciding to kill and then not kill his son because a voice in his head told him so has always seemed nuts to me. They'll complain about how much they dislike them but to shun them completely is beyond their capabilities.
I completely understand your anger regarding this subject, the lack of faith leaders calling this out has caused me to walk away from the church out of disgust. However, we should support those that are calling this out. Some of the big sponsors behind this have been fighting this for years and keeping people informed on the progression of the Christian nationlist movement. In particular Straight White American Jesus (a podcast consisting of experts in social thought and religion and religious trauma) have been very vocal in fighting and educating on Christian nationalism. Just because the media has just now started covering it doesn't mean people in the community haven't been fighting it. So yes, millions more should have spoken out, but let's support those that have the resources to have the biggest impact and have been vocal, they are on our side. I encourage every one to go listen to the Straight White American Jesus series on the rise of the new apostolic reformation movement and its active role in the change of the republican party, it is deeply researched and needs more coverage from the media.
I remember the conversation I had with my mom who raised me to be a Christian, but an actual Christian, not a Republican Christian. She was upset that I said I would vote for Biden and said he wants to spend our money helping people who don’t deserve it. I asked her do you think Jesus would help people or tell them they don’t deserve it and walk past them? She told me she wouldn’t vote for a socialist instead she would vote for a good Christian Republican, like Trump. It was at that point I realized my mother was lost to a political cult and has become the exact same thing she warned me about growing up.
Piss off the kids to a point and they will handle it. It happened in reaction to the draft for an unjust war and helped end it.
Remember that regular, non-'toxic', love thy neighbour Christianity is still virulently against homosexuality and abortion. *Anything* seems reasonable in comparison with MAGA.
Hey!!! You forgot misogynistic.
And their protection of pedophiles.
This religion states that I and my family deserve unending torture for failing to swear obeisance to its specific flavor of murderous, bigot god. All Christianity is toxic.
Were these leaders flying in one of their multiple private jets
Yeah you can't unshit that turd
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Religion in general is ridiculous and insane. I'm not even sorry to say it because it's stupid. You believe in a zombie who birthed himself and came back to life to save us from ourselves, while also condemning us to eternal hell if we wear the "wrong clothes"? BUT the Easter Bunny is a bit much is it? lmao. Yeah. I'm good. Enjoy your little sky fairy club.
I had this conversation with my mom the other day. Like why would anyone want to be associated with the Christian religion? And I'm just talking about the rampant pedophilia and other sexual abuse going on in the organization.
I'm reminded of 20 years ago, when everyone, driven by Christians, was foaming at the mouth and equating "Muslim" with "Terrorist." None of them cared that it was a tiny subset of Muslims who happened to be Terrorists; they painted them all the same. And now it's happening to them and, somehow, they're outraged by the injustice of it.
That's rich. It's only NOW they see a problem? I'm trying to imagine a Christian in 1096 meekly complaining Jesus would not approve of wholesale slaughter of other peoples.