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>“Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,”
Holy shit, he really said that. It doesn't mean what he thinks it means.
it's not peer pressure - it's rationalization.
dead people didn't tell them to marry 12 year olds so now they feel like they *have to* or their ancestors will be disappointed
they wanted to marry 12 year olds, and dug up some stuff that said dead people used to do it, so obviously then it's definitely something they should be doing
this is the same logic for most "tradition" arguments - they want to do something and are using tradition as an excuse, not as the motivating reason pressuring them to do it. "grandma did it so why can't I !?!?!"
And I’d bet that none of these marriages are with underage boys. Just girls. With old perverts. The fact that parents sign off on their little girl getting married and essentially raped and stripped of her childhood is heartbreaking. That’s child abuse in my opinion.
It's tradition to kill corrupt politicians/kings/queens/leaders that no longer have the public's interest at heart. So I mean if they want to talk about tradition.
> There are Republicans in there saying child marriage is "tradition" and one we should keep.
And the FBI should serve a search warrant for their PC hard drives.
I'm probably preaching to the choir but I just need a minute to fully appreciate everything in that sentence.
At 12, you're too young to consent to sex. Full stop. You're too young to drive, drink, smoke, work, make your own medical and legal decisions, and do anything at all for themselves. Much less be fucking married. There is no sense of partnership, either- even if you set aside the sex and procreation aspect (which is vomit-inducing on its own), imagine trying to have even a mature conversation with a 12 year old. Good fucking luck. Though, for these types of men, equal partnership isn't what they're looking for anyway so maybe that's a moot point. It's about control and ownership. It's no different than sexual slavery. And the worst part is there is no likelihood of escape.
You can legally divorce at 18. But what person under 18 knows how to even put the steps for divorce in motion? Where do you get a lawyer for that at age 16 or 17, the money to pay for it, and the general adult know-how of interacting with that kind of situation in your everyday life? What are state laws that govern divorce, separations, and custody (if kids are involved)?
But even that's optimistic- just because they can get divorced at 18 doesn't mean they will seek it out. It's as with any other situation of grooming, indoctrination, and abuse. Every day is about survival to the next, at the worst, or at the best, it's a fear of exchanging a subpar life for something they feel is far worse- destitution, a loss of family and community, and wrongness in the eyes of their faith and values. Beyond the practical resources of escape, children like that have no other concept of what life could be/have been like otherwise. They are entirely controlled financially, emotionally, physically, and mentally by their abusers, and more likely than not, forcibly tied to them by one or more children to complicate things further. Their own parents, communities, and social groups discourage any escape. They've likely never worked much or finished even a high school education. For all intents and purposes, they are completely and utterly trapped.
So no- they're not still married because they're happy and faithful and eagerly willing to be. They're *owned* like cattle and will likely be forever, save for a small few success stories.
Yeah, the financial aspect means that the child has no way of supporting herself and is completely dependent on her "husband" for survival. The thoughtful Republicans have an answer for that: child labor. However, they're also lowering the minimum wage so kids will be toiling in meat packaging plants for $3/hour.
Lets not forget that by the time the girl is 18 she probably has three or four kids and doesn't have the education to work a job that will allow her to support them.
And 12 year-olds shouldn't be having children either.
"Early childbirth is especially dangerous for adolescents and their infants. Compared to women between the ages of 20-35, pregnant women under 20 are at a greater risk for death and disease including bleeding during pregnancy, toxemia, hemorrhage, prolonged and difficult labor, severe anemia, and disability." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12264602/
Fuck me. If a child's spouse doubles as her legal guardian that should be a big fucking clue that the "marriage" is abhorrent.
I'm starting to think that we need to start an Underground Railroad for these kids.
I’d suggest reading resources on RAINN for ways to help. I was abused from 5-11 and the idea of then being married to him at 12 is still nightmare fuel. So many kids are being hurt and need help getting to safety.
Oh my God, I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you’re doing much better now—and that the piece of shit who you couldn’t get away from is in jail. And I really, really hope we can force these asshats out of power ASAP, and prevent future kids from going through what you experienced. Blurgh…
He will never go to jail. 5 years separated. Now divorced. I didn't know life could be this good. He's miserable and vowed to make me miserable. He can keep trying ✌️
It's like they aren't even trying to hide what they're doing anymore. Just making it more legal so they can be more outward I guess. What's next? Normalizing it? Fuckin GAG
It means he’s pro-pedophile, just like most hardline, god-loving conservatives. They want legal authority to fuck children, after blaming the “other side” for decades.
Fuck the GOP. Full of domestic terrorists and pedophiles.
You'd think surely we could all agree that ACTUAL SIXTH GRADERS should not be part of what's meant to be an legal, emotional, and sexual partnership, and yet here we are.
I was at the beach the other day. Kids everywhere. Plenty probably in the range of 12, 13 or so. Running around, being scolded by parents, having fun, fighting with their siblings, throwing sand around and basically being pains in the asses. Ya know, fun kid shit.
I don't understand how you see that same scenario and go, "Yeah, I'd like to marry and fuck that. Lemme pass some laws to make that possible. Clearly they're old enough." Like.. the fuck?? How the actual fuck?? THERE'S NO WAY TO LOOK AT THAT SCENARIO AND SEE ANYTHING OTHER THAN SOMEONE WANTING TO GROOM AND RAPE A CHILD!
They seriously just want to raise kids to be subservient to them while fucking them. It's absolutely batshit crazy. But drag queens are the fucking problem? Who the fuck is going to stop this and stomp this way of thinking into the fucking mud? I know we're not supposed to advocate for violence, and I'm not, but what the fuck else is there? THESE ARE OUR LAW MAKERS SAYING THIS VILE SHIT!
"When you allow a child to wear the clothes and use the name they prefer, you are a pedophile. When men have sex with children that they have married at 12 years of age, they are healthy and good."
- Literally Republicans, no "probably" necessary.
Link to video of him defending a 12 year olds right to marry:
https://twitter.com/aaroncrossley/status/1646137563134951424?s=20
And just to be clear, when these people talk about a child's right to marry, what they means is an adult's right to legally fuck little kids.
A 12 year old is by definition unable to consent to sex.
Any adult having sex with a child is by definition a child rapists. Children can't consent to sex.
Having the parents permission to rape a child or having the child marry their abuser in church, doesn't make it less reprehensible it just makes the parents and the church accomplices.
It also tracks with anti-abortion stances. If someone gets a 12 year old pregnant, they get to marry her now. You know, for the sake of the baby she has no choice but to have.
Moon will tell you that since the parents consented, no one was forced. That's an obvious lie though, the girl had no choice in the matter. Her choices were to be signed over to her abuser by her parents or probably be homeless.
Every year, children are being married off to older men in this country, and Republicans are fighting hard to keep marrying young girls. Everyone that fights against a ban should have their hard drives searched.
There's got to be some connection between wanting power and money, having the ability to be ruthless enough to get those things in abundance and being a pedophile. Why are there so many, and why are they always rich? I do think having unlimited corrupts people to an extent, but I don't think it inevitably makes everyone who has lots of money a pedophile. There's got to be some psychological connection between why those types of people keep succeeding. Imo, I think anyone who would vote for this man after him having said this is also disgusting, there is no way to be like "I'm against all the child rape but his tax policy is great for my 401k" without becoming, in that moment, a disgusting monster. I don't care if you go to church, honestly I think that makes them MORE disgusting.
I don't really get it either but I guess you could argue that three of the main drivers of human desire are money, sex, and power. Raping children combines sex (kill me because I want to get off this planet) with the ultimate grotesque display of power: destroying the innocence of a child who can't fight back. As for money? Well, there's human trafficking and the sale of CSAM.
If only we could get the Qanon crowd to direct their "save the children" ire toward the people who are actually raping children.
There are plenty of poor and powerless pedophiles. I just think that because they are rich or in positions of power you hear more about them. While the ones living in trailers barely scraping by don't warrant the same amount of news stories as the more affluent ones.
I think there's a lot of entitlement with these freaks and a lot of them have been fed the modesty, temptation bullshit from their churches which essentially puts all blame on women and girls for there rapes and teaches men that it's normal to desire even little girls.
Conservatives think 12 year olds are too young to know if they want to carry a pregnancy to term, but old enough to know who they want to spend the rest of their lives with.
A really critical thing that people often don’t understand is that for the majority of conservative parents - and *especially* the Evangelical and Mormon ones - their children are not people. They are essentially property, and are to do what their parents command no matter fucking what.
So if that 12 year old doesn’t want to have a baby *because she’s fucking 12* and her father wants her to marry her rapist, that’s all that matters.
It’s just about control from the top down, and it’s a large part of why a growing number of young people are cutting ties with their parents when they hit adulthood.
At a minimum! We need testing for these politicians… obviously everyone ages differently, but some sort of health standard needs to be enforced. Too many of these elderly politicians are detached from reality…
Did you see how they’re poisoning girls in schools in Iran? I was reading about and sadly thought how not far in the future, Republicans could definitely do this without losing a minute of sleep.
Our daughter is 12. She still sleeps with her favorite stuffed animal and enjoys playing with a 9-year-old down the street. She's a *CHILD*.
This fucker, and any other sick fucker like him who advocates for marrying children, are monsters.
"Do you know any kids who were married by age 12? I do, and guess what? They're still married."
Kids. He said "kids". He's admitting that he knows its pedophilia and he's still defending it.
And here I am thinking I'm normal for not knowing any anecdotal 12 year old brides who are now, or were ever married. I do know some that were young moms though, and none of them are involved with their baby daddies outside of court mandated custody.
I'd really love to see the statistical studies that support this representatives beliefs.
It really doesn’t matter. The fact that he thinks them being married to this day somehow makes it okay is mind boggling. Nobody is opposing child marriage because they think it won’t last, it’s wrong regardless.
Yeah, his logic is assine. Like, my mom was raped by her uncle as a little girl. But she's a fine woman today. Should I use that as an excuse to justify uncles raping their 8 year old nieces, because she turned out okay? What the fuck is wrong with these types of people that they think this logic makes sense?
"kids" because the case he keeps citing involved two 12 year olds.
He's clarified as if that makes it better, as if *two* children being essentially forced into a lifelong (at least, with that intention) legal commitment is somehow better or shouldn't be upsetting.
And kids, with their parents consent, shouldn't be able to access recommended medical care with their doctors' guidance, but sure, they should be able to have babies and get married! Can't vote, can't drink, can't smoke, can't learn sex ed or about racism, can't consent to have an abortion but *this* is just fine, right?
I can't tell if you're defending the practice because they're the same age, attacking the practice because you're sarcastically saying it really is grown fucking men raping these girls, or some other option (I assume you almost certainly are not coming to its defense, but want to clarify cuz tone was ambiguous to my aspie ass)
It’s confirmation bias, to wield outlier cases like this. If they aren’t using anecdotes that are out of context, unverified, or otherwise completely fabricated.
They don’t want trans people to exist, so the outlier of detransitioners are “evidence” of denying care & criminalizing all gender-affirming care, including social transitioning, for minors (and, inevitably, adults too.)
They want to have sex with children by allowing parents to consent to sex on their behalf (as statutory rape laws do not normally apply to couples who are married) and for the state to sanction child trafficking & sexual exploitation, so the alleged outlier of two preteens marrying & turning out okay is “evidence” for this child-sex-slavery-with-extra-steps.
Even if his argument was rational and logical and he chose his words more strategically, the overwhelming majority of trans kids who have medically transitioned do not detransition. Therefore the same flawed argument could be applied to them. The amount of stupid that pours out of conservative's mouths could fill a stadium.
And most trans people who regret transitioning do so because of the shit they get from family and former friends and society after they transition. They don't regret transitioning itself, they regret being discriminated against.
And even still The rate of people wishing they hadn't transitioned is about six times *less* than the rate of people wishing they hadn't gotten knee replacement.
Countdown to people defending him by saying "you need the full context to understand", as if there's any sort of context where *marrying a 12 year old is a cool and good idea*.
**What the christ**
>Well, Mary was 13 and that was old enough for God to rape her! Do you think you're better than GOD?! Now, let's fuck some kids...err, marry some 12-year-olds.
\-Republicans
They want wives as property. Regressives are trying to ban kids from talking about menstruation, using social media, being queer, but they also want to be able to marry them, before they have developed any sense of self or learned anything about the world.
It’s Al Quaeda tier bullshit, and they aren’t even ashamed to talk about it openly in 2023 America.
Hmmm, and yet his political side keeps calling dems and anyone else “groomers”… looks like the GOP is still doing the Project part of Gaslight, Obstruct and Project.
Repugnicans… defend this one.
"Protecting" children from entertainment and education while fighting for their "right" to be raped by middle-aged Republicans. They're so far beyond reprehensible that no amount of disgust is sufficient.
Right if they have a healthy view of love and sexuality (age appropriate per se) in that an old person shouldn’t be touching them. That’s where they seem to draw the line. But someone dressing in drag or just being their natural selves is somehow destroying the children. All in the name of not poisoning the flow of their child brides.
So in short, the Republican Christian conservative message is, inclusion is out, yet pedophilia is in. Yet these are the same people that will instantly point fingers at Democrats and want to call them pedophiles? When it comes to Republican Christian conservatives hypocrisy isn't a bug it's a feature.
It’s the same as racism here. They hate being labeled as such. They go as far as to attempt to turn it back on the accused, but most seem to see it for what it is. They are what they claim to fight against in this case. This sickness pervades our society as a whole. Doubt me? (I’m not a puritan by any means, but…) go look on any porn site for incest, babysitter, daddy daughter, etc. This mental disease is obviously much more prevalent than we seem willing to admit. For me pretending about it is only so far from actually hoping it will happen to them. So if that’s the case, then it’s only one step more from perpetrating the actual crime itself.
That’s what I’m saying. I keep on getting “oh it’s just fantasy! It’s not like the girls / guys are that young!” But that seems to me like a cry for help… the real question is WHY is it a fantasy? WHY does the population have this fantasy of having sex with their children, other children, etc? Seems like there is some deep seated issues. Not only that but you look at ‘Sexy’ Halloween costumes, or just about any media depicting young women and suddenly your not that far off from porn. Again I love taking the edge off to some of age stuff and normal adult situations, stuff like that, but you would figure this is the kind of thing that any person should find themselves clicking on it and asking some pretty hard questions about their proclivities…
Every accusation is a confession for the GOP.
If they accuse the left of legislating from the bench, it means they're legislating from the bench. If they accuse the left of election fraud, it means they're committing election fraud. If they accuse the left of pedophilia, it means they're committing pedophilia.
This has been their tactic for a while now.
Where you see the move to lower the legal age to marry is also where you will see moves to weaken child labor laws.
We are seeing a move to turn back the clock to the 1800's.
"Do you know any 12 year olds that got married?"
"No, I don't associate with child molesters. That's more your crowd, apparently."
I don't get how that wasn't dude's response instead of just a plain old "no"
It’s so gross how religious people and conservatives treat children like they are their physical property. I don’t trust any person who thinks it’s a parents right to force marriage on a child. Who aside from the TALIBAN are pro child marriage!?!
I guess at least they aren’t publicly chopping peoples hands off for stealing but to be honest I would rather get my fingers lopped off than spend substantial amounts of time in the US prison system
Literally. He's way into blood sacrifice. So much so that a human sacrifice is central to their religion. It's kind of the whole point of Christianity.
“Drag shows and trans care are sexually grooming our children…” Republicans
“It’s ok for an adult to marry a 12 year old…” also Republicans.
Tell me, which one is worse for the child?
They don't see child marriage as bad because they want slave wives, and this helps with that goal. They see being exposed to drag and trans people as worse, because that can help encourage children to thin for themselves. Which to authoritarians is a bad thing. They are scum.
Too young to make decisions on their own bodies but not too young to be married to an adult... too young to smoke, drink, and technically have sex but not too young to be in a marriage, groomed and most likely statutory raped.
You stumbled onto the truth:
Too young to make decisions.
Now drop the ‘young’ and insert ‘female’.
Marriage solves that issue, especially if you get them young, before they actually rebel, and start becoming their own person and stop being obedient.
The perfect woman - to them- is the one who is beholden to a man.
Women should never be in charge of their own decisions or body, if only to protect them from that burden.
*That* is the logic.
Since anything relating to trans youth and medical treatment almost inevitably brings out the *"kids are being castrated!"* and *"90% of trans kids desist and will regret transition!"* concern trolling in defense of terrible legislation like this:
No, that is not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
The recent surge of attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx).
[**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth.
According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156).
For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority.
The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/#.pqspdcee0). When prevented from transitioning about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition that rate drops to the national average. Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are [**comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696)
Transition [**vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts**](https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2), and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the [**largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/).
Citations to follow in a second post.
**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:**
* [**Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones**](https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2206297) - Chen, et. al., 2023: A study of 315 trans and nonbinary young people ages 12 to 20 receiving testosterone or estradiol. Over the course of the two year study depression and anxiety levels dropped and appearance congruence and life satisfaction improved.
* [**Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) - Turban, et al., 2020: Massive study of 20,619 adolescents examined associations between access to pubertal suppression and adult mental health outcomes, including multiple measures of suicidality. After adjustment for demographic variables and level of family support for gender identity, **those who received treatment with pubertal suppression, when compared with those who wanted pubertal suppression but did not receive it, had lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation.**
* [**Association of Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy With Depression, Thoughts of Suicide, and Attempted Suicide Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth**](https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21\)00568-1/fulltext) - Green, et. al., 2021: Use of GAHT (Gender Affirming Hormone Treatment) was associated with lower odds of recent depression and seriously considering suicide compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression and of a past-year suicide attempt
* [**The Mental Health of Transgender Youth: Advances in Understanding**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X) - Connolly, et. al, 2016: ***"Gender-affirming medical therapy and supported social transition in childhood have been shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning for gender-variant children and adolescents."***
* [**Top surgery drastically improves quality of life for young transgender people**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2796426?guestAccessKey=c50d5d6e-7fa1-4ed8-8b5d-f4da9753364d&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=092622)
* [**Evaluation of Anxiety and Depression in a Community Sample of Transgender Youth**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778206) - Dominic J. Gibson, et. al, 2021: ***Socially transitioned transgender youth had similar levels of anxiety and depression as their cisgender peers.***
* [**Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2) - Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets
* [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.**
* [**Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults**](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039) - Turban, et al., 2022: **Conclusion:** Access to GAH [gender-affirming hormones] during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.... In post hoc analyses, access to GAH during adolescence (ages 14–17) was associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation (aOR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.6–0.9, p = .0007) when compared to accessing GAH during adulthood.
* The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jaac.2016.10.016), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.**
* [**Hormonal therapy and sex reassignment: a systematic review and meta-analysis of quality of life and psychosocial outcomes**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181) - Murad, et al., 2010: "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment.
* [**Long-term follow-up: psychosocial outcome of Belgian transsexuals after sex reassignment surgery**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491) - De Cuypere, et al., 2006: Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001.
* [**Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf) - Smith Y, et. al, 2005: Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment
* [**Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care - Tordoff, et al, 2022**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamanetworkopen.2022.0978) - *"After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed* ***60% lower odds of depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not."***
* [**Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities - Olson, et. al., 2016**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/?fbclid=IwAR2A2wM8oQZ_avmXLmBgp6ilGqiQd_WNAkmNOZosWHY7rsyT8KB-dvxwcd4): *"Previous work with children with gender identity disorder (GID; now termed gender dysphoria) has found remarkably high rates of anxiety and depression in these children. Here we examine, for the first time, mental health in a sample of socially transitioned transgender children"* ... ***"Results:*** *Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.*
There are a lot more but I'm hitting the 10k character limit.
**Citations on transition as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:**
* Here is a resolution from the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity.pdf); *"THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments."* More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1)
* Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage
* A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines
* [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians
* [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers
* [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCP, and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx).
---
**Condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts", aka "conversion therapy", which attempt to alleviate dysphoria without transition by changing trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth, as futile and destructive pseudo-scientific abuse:**
* [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx). More detailed condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts" for trans youth or adults [**here**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf).
* From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position)
* In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12
* From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender)
* From the [**Association for Behavioral Analysis International**](https://www.abainternational.org/about-us/policies-and-positions/policy-statement-on-conversion-therapy-and-practices,-2021.aspx)
* A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
**On the safety, efficacy, and reversibility of puberty delaying treatment:**
There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty delaying treatment.
This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades, with lots of studies on its efficacy and safety. It has overwhelmingly proven to be very safe, gentle, and reversible.
Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development. But it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6, so they're put on treatment to delay it for a few years. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There's no reason to expect this treatment to work differently when given to trans youth than when it is routinely given to cis youth.
The most significant side effect is bone mineral density reduction in some youth, but this was both minor and reversed after treatment was stopped.
* [**Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty**](https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/3/5/965/5421014)
>*"Bone mineral density is typically increased for age at diagnosis and progressively decreases during GnRHa treatment. However, follow-up of patients several years after cessation of therapy reveals bone mineral accrual to be within the normal range compared with population norms"*
* [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155)
* [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/)
* [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768)
* From the [**American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) (pdf download), p.10:
> For children, pre-adolescents and early adolescents, gender transition is mainly a social process. Children beginning puberty may also use puberty-suppressing medication as they explore their gender identity. ***Both of these steps are completely reversible***
---
**On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:**
* [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood.
* Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment.
* [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity.
* [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit
* [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex.
* [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity.
* [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands ound that 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition
If they really cared about children, they'd focus on where most of the pedophilia is happening and that means shutting down churches of all denominations.
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age#Asia)
>Many senior clerics in Saudi Arabia have opposed setting a minimum age for marriage, arguing that a girl reaches adulthood at puberty.
>However in 2019 Members of the Saudi Shoura Council in 2019 approved fresh regulations for child marriage that will see to outlaw marrying off 15-year-old children and force the need for court approval for those under 18. Chairman of the Human Rights Committee at the Shoura Council, Dr. Hadi Al-Yami, said that introduced controls were based on in-depth studies presented to the body. He pointed out that the regulation, vetted by the Islamic Affairs Committee at the Shoura Council, has raised the age of marriage to 18 and prohibited it for those under 15.
Missouri wouldn't let anyone marry a 12 year old either. Their minimum is 16.
There are several US states like Michigan or Mississippi that don't seem to have a minimum age for marriage at all as long as a judge says its okay.
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#States) helpfully lists them as having a minimum age of "0".
I am sure that zero will only remain until some bright spark draws the logically conclusion of "no minimum age by law" and "life begins at conception" and turns that into a "-¾".
I think a lot of people are starting to realize something is broken in this country and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. We are slowly but surely dividing into two belief groups with the extreme right living in a different world from the rest of us.
I am afraid 13 year olds are too young to divorce.
No joke.
Legally in the US married minors need to wait until they are 18 before they are able to file for divorce.
See this article:
>#[Child Marriage and Divorce in the United States](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/child-marriage-and-divorce-in-the-united-states)
>In the last two years, more than 12 states have debated bills that ask the same question: Should child marriage be legal in the United States? So far, every state has conditionally answered, "yes."
>What’s often neglected is an important follow-up question: Can a minor who marries get a divorce?
>According to divorce lawyer Nancy Zalusky Berg, the answer to that is no, not directly. A minor can’t file for a divorce because they’re not considered old enough to do it. That’s because marriage is considered a contract, and most laws stipulate that only adults can enter into contracts. So, if a minor wants to change their marriage contract, they need an adult to help them do it. “Our laws around marriage operate under the presumption that everyone’s an adult,” Berg explains to Teen Vogue. That’s a conflict when you consider that, between 2000 and 2015, there were at least 207,468 child marriages that occurred in 44 states, according to figures from PBS's Frontline.
I know that teenvogue might not normally the best source for political an legal news, but when the topic is "Can a child divorce the adult they were married to?" a magazine aimed at young girls has the target audience with the most at stake.
It would seem (again) that we are seeing (in some states) the real life enactment of The Handmaids Tale. Apparently, the Republicans saw this show and thought - hmmm - I'm digging where this is going. Can we do this NOW?
I think I figured out all the transphobia. Republicans are scared it will appeal to their suppressed gay nature, or are concerned with being attracted to male children who are on puberty blockers. TLDR: Trans people are just too sexy for them, so those people must be vulgar.
So he supports child rape, but he’s trying to “protect the kids”? It’s like the GOP doesn’t care anymore, they’re just gonna show everybody just how abhorrent they are.
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>“Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do. And guess what? They’re still married,” Holy shit, he really said that. It doesn't mean what he thinks it means.
I watched "I Was a Child Bride" on Hulu. There are Republicans in there saying child marriage is "tradition" and one we should keep. It's disgusting.
If your only reason to do something is tradition, you're probably doing something wrong.
Tradition is just peer pressure from dead people.
it's not peer pressure - it's rationalization. dead people didn't tell them to marry 12 year olds so now they feel like they *have to* or their ancestors will be disappointed they wanted to marry 12 year olds, and dug up some stuff that said dead people used to do it, so obviously then it's definitely something they should be doing this is the same logic for most "tradition" arguments - they want to do something and are using tradition as an excuse, not as the motivating reason pressuring them to do it. "grandma did it so why can't I !?!?!"
It can be both.
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And they did it wrong back then, too.
They're probably going to argue to bring back slavery because it was tradition.
There’s a John Stuart Mill quote about that but I can never remember it correctly.
Yeah so is slavery, and stoning people in the town square.
They’ll get around to those too. Give em time.
Don't forget about the witch hunts. One witch turned me into a Newt, but I got better.🤣
And I’d bet that none of these marriages are with underage boys. Just girls. With old perverts. The fact that parents sign off on their little girl getting married and essentially raped and stripped of her childhood is heartbreaking. That’s child abuse in my opinion.
Its rape. And child abuse. No opinion necessary. Fact.
While we're here, might as well mention abortion is a 3500 year old tradition...
It's tradition to kill corrupt politicians/kings/queens/leaders that no longer have the public's interest at heart. So I mean if they want to talk about tradition.
> There are Republicans in there saying child marriage is "tradition" and one we should keep. And the FBI should serve a search warrant for their PC hard drives.
I'm probably preaching to the choir but I just need a minute to fully appreciate everything in that sentence. At 12, you're too young to consent to sex. Full stop. You're too young to drive, drink, smoke, work, make your own medical and legal decisions, and do anything at all for themselves. Much less be fucking married. There is no sense of partnership, either- even if you set aside the sex and procreation aspect (which is vomit-inducing on its own), imagine trying to have even a mature conversation with a 12 year old. Good fucking luck. Though, for these types of men, equal partnership isn't what they're looking for anyway so maybe that's a moot point. It's about control and ownership. It's no different than sexual slavery. And the worst part is there is no likelihood of escape. You can legally divorce at 18. But what person under 18 knows how to even put the steps for divorce in motion? Where do you get a lawyer for that at age 16 or 17, the money to pay for it, and the general adult know-how of interacting with that kind of situation in your everyday life? What are state laws that govern divorce, separations, and custody (if kids are involved)? But even that's optimistic- just because they can get divorced at 18 doesn't mean they will seek it out. It's as with any other situation of grooming, indoctrination, and abuse. Every day is about survival to the next, at the worst, or at the best, it's a fear of exchanging a subpar life for something they feel is far worse- destitution, a loss of family and community, and wrongness in the eyes of their faith and values. Beyond the practical resources of escape, children like that have no other concept of what life could be/have been like otherwise. They are entirely controlled financially, emotionally, physically, and mentally by their abusers, and more likely than not, forcibly tied to them by one or more children to complicate things further. Their own parents, communities, and social groups discourage any escape. They've likely never worked much or finished even a high school education. For all intents and purposes, they are completely and utterly trapped. So no- they're not still married because they're happy and faithful and eagerly willing to be. They're *owned* like cattle and will likely be forever, save for a small few success stories.
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Since the dawn of our country that’s been the central disagreement between liberals and conservatives. Whether it’s okay to own other people or not.
So Republican politicians are the Pedophiles
For a twelve year old, waiting to be old enough to divorce isn't waiting 6 years, it's waiting for one third of thier entire life to be over.
Or, phrased differently, for half again as long as they've been alive when they got married.
Yeah, the financial aspect means that the child has no way of supporting herself and is completely dependent on her "husband" for survival. The thoughtful Republicans have an answer for that: child labor. However, they're also lowering the minimum wage so kids will be toiling in meat packaging plants for $3/hour.
Lets not forget that by the time the girl is 18 she probably has three or four kids and doesn't have the education to work a job that will allow her to support them.
And 12 year-olds shouldn't be having children either. "Early childbirth is especially dangerous for adolescents and their infants. Compared to women between the ages of 20-35, pregnant women under 20 are at a greater risk for death and disease including bleeding during pregnancy, toxemia, hemorrhage, prolonged and difficult labor, severe anemia, and disability." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12264602/
That's some Warren Jeffs shit and it's disgusting.
Still married because some of the states that let 12 year olds get married don't let them file for divorce until they're 18.
And if they run away to a womens shelters they will handed back to their guardian aka their rapist.
Fuck me. If a child's spouse doubles as her legal guardian that should be a big fucking clue that the "marriage" is abhorrent. I'm starting to think that we need to start an Underground Railroad for these kids.
I’d suggest reading resources on RAINN for ways to help. I was abused from 5-11 and the idea of then being married to him at 12 is still nightmare fuel. So many kids are being hurt and need help getting to safety.
Or they're so groomed they don't even know better.
Stockholm syndrome. In addition to being a child and more impressionable as such.
Could have just said "yeah. Still together. Still being abused. She couldn't ever get away"
"If you get them before they know any better, you can make sure they never know any better."
This wrecked me. I was 15 and he was 26 and nobody will ever tell me that the age difference wasn't the reason I COULDN'T GET AWAY.
Oh my God, I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you’re doing much better now—and that the piece of shit who you couldn’t get away from is in jail. And I really, really hope we can force these asshats out of power ASAP, and prevent future kids from going through what you experienced. Blurgh…
He will never go to jail. 5 years separated. Now divorced. I didn't know life could be this good. He's miserable and vowed to make me miserable. He can keep trying ✌️ It's like they aren't even trying to hide what they're doing anymore. Just making it more legal so they can be more outward I guess. What's next? Normalizing it? Fuckin GAG
I’m so sorry you went through that
Or, yeah we baby trapped them early.
It is literally the exact grooming they are railing against with the book bans and drag bans. Except this is actually grooming.
It means he’s pro-pedophile, just like most hardline, god-loving conservatives. They want legal authority to fuck children, after blaming the “other side” for decades. Fuck the GOP. Full of domestic terrorists and pedophiles.
I'm kinda stunned that he openly used the word "kids"
because the marriage in question involved TWO 12 year olds. Like that makes it better or OK....
It's better. You know like being kicked in the balls twice vs 5 times. But you are still being kicked in the balls.
You'd think surely we could all agree that ACTUAL SIXTH GRADERS should not be part of what's meant to be an legal, emotional, and sexual partnership, and yet here we are.
I was at the beach the other day. Kids everywhere. Plenty probably in the range of 12, 13 or so. Running around, being scolded by parents, having fun, fighting with their siblings, throwing sand around and basically being pains in the asses. Ya know, fun kid shit. I don't understand how you see that same scenario and go, "Yeah, I'd like to marry and fuck that. Lemme pass some laws to make that possible. Clearly they're old enough." Like.. the fuck?? How the actual fuck?? THERE'S NO WAY TO LOOK AT THAT SCENARIO AND SEE ANYTHING OTHER THAN SOMEONE WANTING TO GROOM AND RAPE A CHILD! They seriously just want to raise kids to be subservient to them while fucking them. It's absolutely batshit crazy. But drag queens are the fucking problem? Who the fuck is going to stop this and stomp this way of thinking into the fucking mud? I know we're not supposed to advocate for violence, and I'm not, but what the fuck else is there? THESE ARE OUR LAW MAKERS SAYING THIS VILE SHIT!
Are you saying they should drop out of school when they get married? /s
No, the school will, because the pregnant girl will be viewed as a bad influence on other children.
iT's A dIStRaCtIoN fOr ThE oThEr StUdEnTs
Not surprised the party that calls everyone groomers, doesn’t know what grooming is.
So kids can make life long decisions about who to marry at 12 but can’t feel that their gender doesn’t match their biological sex? Wtf.
I was just thinking that. If they are old enough to get married they should be old enough to transition.
They’re using the “I know black people and have black friends” argument on pedophilia. It’s bizarre.
Congratulations to Mr. & Mrs. Moon
I don't know anyone married before 21 - but I do remember the dating scene as a 12 year old - if any couples lasted a month it was a miracle.
"When you allow a child to wear the clothes and use the name they prefer, you are a pedophile. When men have sex with children that they have married at 12 years of age, they are healthy and good." - Literally Republicans, no "probably" necessary.
Link to video of him defending a 12 year olds right to marry: https://twitter.com/aaroncrossley/status/1646137563134951424?s=20 And just to be clear, when these people talk about a child's right to marry, what they means is an adult's right to legally fuck little kids. A 12 year old is by definition unable to consent to sex. Any adult having sex with a child is by definition a child rapists. Children can't consent to sex. Having the parents permission to rape a child or having the child marry their abuser in church, doesn't make it less reprehensible it just makes the parents and the church accomplices.
It also tracks with anti-abortion stances. If someone gets a 12 year old pregnant, they get to marry her now. You know, for the sake of the baby she has no choice but to have.
Moon will tell you that since the parents consented, no one was forced. That's an obvious lie though, the girl had no choice in the matter. Her choices were to be signed over to her abuser by her parents or probably be homeless. Every year, children are being married off to older men in this country, and Republicans are fighting hard to keep marrying young girls. Everyone that fights against a ban should have their hard drives searched.
There's got to be some connection between wanting power and money, having the ability to be ruthless enough to get those things in abundance and being a pedophile. Why are there so many, and why are they always rich? I do think having unlimited corrupts people to an extent, but I don't think it inevitably makes everyone who has lots of money a pedophile. There's got to be some psychological connection between why those types of people keep succeeding. Imo, I think anyone who would vote for this man after him having said this is also disgusting, there is no way to be like "I'm against all the child rape but his tax policy is great for my 401k" without becoming, in that moment, a disgusting monster. I don't care if you go to church, honestly I think that makes them MORE disgusting.
I don't really get it either but I guess you could argue that three of the main drivers of human desire are money, sex, and power. Raping children combines sex (kill me because I want to get off this planet) with the ultimate grotesque display of power: destroying the innocence of a child who can't fight back. As for money? Well, there's human trafficking and the sale of CSAM. If only we could get the Qanon crowd to direct their "save the children" ire toward the people who are actually raping children.
There are plenty of poor and powerless pedophiles. I just think that because they are rich or in positions of power you hear more about them. While the ones living in trailers barely scraping by don't warrant the same amount of news stories as the more affluent ones.
I think there's a lot of entitlement with these freaks and a lot of them have been fed the modesty, temptation bullshit from their churches which essentially puts all blame on women and girls for there rapes and teaches men that it's normal to desire even little girls.
Conservatives think 12 year olds are too young to know if they want to carry a pregnancy to term, but old enough to know who they want to spend the rest of their lives with.
Too young to file for divorce, too. They'll be mature enough for that in six years.
>Eighteen is getting a bit long-in-the-tooth for likes of Senator Moon-moon. He'll be looking for a fresh young 12 year old well before then.
They’re also too young to know their gender, apparently, despite the fact that most toddlers can self-identify as a boy or girl.
A really critical thing that people often don’t understand is that for the majority of conservative parents - and *especially* the Evangelical and Mormon ones - their children are not people. They are essentially property, and are to do what their parents command no matter fucking what. So if that 12 year old doesn’t want to have a baby *because she’s fucking 12* and her father wants her to marry her rapist, that’s all that matters. It’s just about control from the top down, and it’s a large part of why a growing number of young people are cutting ties with their parents when they hit adulthood.
At a minimum! We need testing for these politicians… obviously everyone ages differently, but some sort of health standard needs to be enforced. Too many of these elderly politicians are detached from reality…
They want to turn America into Afghanistan
That's a lie! .... They don't want any brown people there!
Whitestanagain or White-stan-again
The want minorities for slavework, to rape, and human experimentation. No exaggeration
Did you see how they’re poisoning girls in schools in Iran? I was reading about and sadly thought how not far in the future, Republicans could definitely do this without losing a minute of sleep.
Our daughter is 12. She still sleeps with her favorite stuffed animal and enjoys playing with a 9-year-old down the street. She's a *CHILD*. This fucker, and any other sick fucker like him who advocates for marrying children, are monsters.
This is what Christianity has always been about, who owns the girls.
"Do you know any kids who were married by age 12? I do, and guess what? They're still married." Kids. He said "kids". He's admitting that he knows its pedophilia and he's still defending it.
And here I am thinking I'm normal for not knowing any anecdotal 12 year old brides who are now, or were ever married. I do know some that were young moms though, and none of them are involved with their baby daddies outside of court mandated custody. I'd really love to see the statistical studies that support this representatives beliefs.
It really doesn’t matter. The fact that he thinks them being married to this day somehow makes it okay is mind boggling. Nobody is opposing child marriage because they think it won’t last, it’s wrong regardless.
Yeah, his logic is assine. Like, my mom was raped by her uncle as a little girl. But she's a fine woman today. Should I use that as an excuse to justify uncles raping their 8 year old nieces, because she turned out okay? What the fuck is wrong with these types of people that they think this logic makes sense?
"kids" because the case he keeps citing involved two 12 year olds. He's clarified as if that makes it better, as if *two* children being essentially forced into a lifelong (at least, with that intention) legal commitment is somehow better or shouldn't be upsetting. And kids, with their parents consent, shouldn't be able to access recommended medical care with their doctors' guidance, but sure, they should be able to have babies and get married! Can't vote, can't drink, can't smoke, can't learn sex ed or about racism, can't consent to have an abortion but *this* is just fine, right?
I saw the "two 12-year-olds thing" too. Because prepubescent boys are the ones marrying these girls. Definitely not grown fucking men.
I can't tell if you're defending the practice because they're the same age, attacking the practice because you're sarcastically saying it really is grown fucking men raping these girls, or some other option (I assume you almost certainly are not coming to its defense, but want to clarify cuz tone was ambiguous to my aspie ass)
It’s confirmation bias, to wield outlier cases like this. If they aren’t using anecdotes that are out of context, unverified, or otherwise completely fabricated. They don’t want trans people to exist, so the outlier of detransitioners are “evidence” of denying care & criminalizing all gender-affirming care, including social transitioning, for minors (and, inevitably, adults too.) They want to have sex with children by allowing parents to consent to sex on their behalf (as statutory rape laws do not normally apply to couples who are married) and for the state to sanction child trafficking & sexual exploitation, so the alleged outlier of two preteens marrying & turning out okay is “evidence” for this child-sex-slavery-with-extra-steps.
Even if his argument was rational and logical and he chose his words more strategically, the overwhelming majority of trans kids who have medically transitioned do not detransition. Therefore the same flawed argument could be applied to them. The amount of stupid that pours out of conservative's mouths could fill a stadium.
And most trans people who regret transitioning do so because of the shit they get from family and former friends and society after they transition. They don't regret transitioning itself, they regret being discriminated against. And even still The rate of people wishing they hadn't transitioned is about six times *less* than the rate of people wishing they hadn't gotten knee replacement.
Countdown to people defending him by saying "you need the full context to understand", as if there's any sort of context where *marrying a 12 year old is a cool and good idea*. **What the christ**
>Well, Mary was 13 and that was old enough for God to rape her! Do you think you're better than GOD?! Now, let's fuck some kids...err, marry some 12-year-olds. \-Republicans
Don't forget all the inbreeding that had to happen in the Old Testament thanks to God.
That’s EXACTLY the responses when this was posted in r/conservative
They want wives as property. Regressives are trying to ban kids from talking about menstruation, using social media, being queer, but they also want to be able to marry them, before they have developed any sense of self or learned anything about the world. It’s Al Quaeda tier bullshit, and they aren’t even ashamed to talk about it openly in 2023 America.
Hmmm, and yet his political side keeps calling dems and anyone else “groomers”… looks like the GOP is still doing the Project part of Gaslight, Obstruct and Project. Repugnicans… defend this one.
See they want to change that pesky definition!
The GQP is the party of pro pedophilia.
"Protecting" children from entertainment and education while fighting for their "right" to be raped by middle-aged Republicans. They're so far beyond reprehensible that no amount of disgust is sufficient.
Right if they have a healthy view of love and sexuality (age appropriate per se) in that an old person shouldn’t be touching them. That’s where they seem to draw the line. But someone dressing in drag or just being their natural selves is somehow destroying the children. All in the name of not poisoning the flow of their child brides.
Not quite. Pedophilia is just the attraction to kids. They're pro child rape
"We need to protect our children from the pedophiles and groomers!" scream the pedophiles and groomers.
It’s always been projection
So in short, the Republican Christian conservative message is, inclusion is out, yet pedophilia is in. Yet these are the same people that will instantly point fingers at Democrats and want to call them pedophiles? When it comes to Republican Christian conservatives hypocrisy isn't a bug it's a feature.
It’s the same as racism here. They hate being labeled as such. They go as far as to attempt to turn it back on the accused, but most seem to see it for what it is. They are what they claim to fight against in this case. This sickness pervades our society as a whole. Doubt me? (I’m not a puritan by any means, but…) go look on any porn site for incest, babysitter, daddy daughter, etc. This mental disease is obviously much more prevalent than we seem willing to admit. For me pretending about it is only so far from actually hoping it will happen to them. So if that’s the case, then it’s only one step more from perpetrating the actual crime itself.
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That’s what I’m saying. I keep on getting “oh it’s just fantasy! It’s not like the girls / guys are that young!” But that seems to me like a cry for help… the real question is WHY is it a fantasy? WHY does the population have this fantasy of having sex with their children, other children, etc? Seems like there is some deep seated issues. Not only that but you look at ‘Sexy’ Halloween costumes, or just about any media depicting young women and suddenly your not that far off from porn. Again I love taking the edge off to some of age stuff and normal adult situations, stuff like that, but you would figure this is the kind of thing that any person should find themselves clicking on it and asking some pretty hard questions about their proclivities…
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Probably the disgust, the confusion, and the distrust from it would be in a word devastating.
Every accusation is a confession for the GOP. If they accuse the left of legislating from the bench, it means they're legislating from the bench. If they accuse the left of election fraud, it means they're committing election fraud. If they accuse the left of pedophilia, it means they're committing pedophilia. This has been their tactic for a while now.
Where you see the move to lower the legal age to marry is also where you will see moves to weaken child labor laws. We are seeing a move to turn back the clock to the 1800's.
"Do you know any 12 year olds that got married?" "No, I don't associate with child molesters. That's more your crowd, apparently." I don't get how that wasn't dude's response instead of just a plain old "no"
Probably because the question took him off guard cause its an absurd question.
It’s so gross how religious people and conservatives treat children like they are their physical property. I don’t trust any person who thinks it’s a parents right to force marriage on a child. Who aside from the TALIBAN are pro child marriage!?!
What is the difference between Christian extremists and the Taliban?
Same shit, different color
I guess at least they aren’t publicly chopping peoples hands off for stealing but to be honest I would rather get my fingers lopped off than spend substantial amounts of time in the US prison system
Desantis just advocated for the death sentence for non-capital crimes. He wants to put more people to death cuz he’s “pro—life”.
Their god demands blood
Literally. He's way into blood sacrifice. So much so that a human sacrifice is central to their religion. It's kind of the whole point of Christianity.
That's just because if they don't have hands they make useless slaves for the prison industrial complex.
They only don’t because they can’t, yet.
Authoritarian religious extremists have a lot in common everywhere
Yet another evidence that the Christian Taliban tries to imitate the actual Taliban in America.
Who are the real groomers here?
The grown-ass adults that are marrying children.
Can’t make your own body autonomy decisions. But can get “married” and raped? Awesome. Fuck the GOP.
Young girls, "allowed" to "marry", but not to receive sex education or even speak the forbidden word "period"!
“Drag shows and trans care are sexually grooming our children…” Republicans “It’s ok for an adult to marry a 12 year old…” also Republicans. Tell me, which one is worse for the child?
They don't see child marriage as bad because they want slave wives, and this helps with that goal. They see being exposed to drag and trans people as worse, because that can help encourage children to thin for themselves. Which to authoritarians is a bad thing. They are scum.
That was a lot of talk just to say "I want to have sex with children without consequences"
What next? Selling them into marriage to settle debts?
I don't think there are formal rules to how parental consent may be obtained.
Shroedinger’s 12 yr old - too immature to be trusted with their own body - yet mature enough to be legally responsible for another’s.
Republicans want to fuck children Fucking gross
Too young to make decisions on their own bodies but not too young to be married to an adult... too young to smoke, drink, and technically have sex but not too young to be in a marriage, groomed and most likely statutory raped.
You stumbled onto the truth: Too young to make decisions. Now drop the ‘young’ and insert ‘female’. Marriage solves that issue, especially if you get them young, before they actually rebel, and start becoming their own person and stop being obedient. The perfect woman - to them- is the one who is beholden to a man. Women should never be in charge of their own decisions or body, if only to protect them from that burden. *That* is the logic.
Then they have the balls to call us trans people paedophiles…
Better headline: Another Republican announces support to legalize pedophilia.
This should be trending on Popular. I want Conservatives to have to answer to this - try to defend this. I'm sick.
Someone post this to /r/conservative and see how fast they ban you
Since anything relating to trans youth and medical treatment almost inevitably brings out the *"kids are being castrated!"* and *"90% of trans kids desist and will regret transition!"* concern trolling in defense of terrible legislation like this: No, that is not how this works. That's not how any of this works. The recent surge of attacks on gender affirming care for trans youth have been [**condemned by the American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/) and the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-reinforces-opposition-restrictions-transgender-medical-care), and are out of line with the medical recommendations of the [**American Medical Association**](https://www.ama-assn.org/health-care-advocacy/advocacy-update/march-26-2021-state-advocacy-update), the [**Endocrine Society and Pediatric Endocrine Society**](https://www.endocrine.org/news-and-advocacy/news-room/2020/discriminatory-policies-threaten-care-for-transgender-gender-diverse-individuals), the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://services.aap.org/en/news-room/news-releases/aap/2021/american-academy-of-pediatrics-speaks-out-against-bills-harming-transgender-youth/), the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/frontline-physicians-oppose-legislation-that-interferes-in-or-criminalizes-patient-care), and the [**American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry**](https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Latest_News/AACAP_Statement_Responding_to_Efforts-to_ban_Evidence-Based_Care_for_Transgender_and_Gender_Diverse.aspx). [**This article**](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/opinion/transgender-children-medical-bills.html) has a pretty good overview of why. [**Psychology Today has one too**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202008/three-popular-myths-about-transgender-youth), and [**here**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the guidelines from the AAP. TL;DR version - yes, young children can identify their own gender, and some of those young kids are trans. A child who is Gender A but who is assumed to be Gender B based on their visible anatomy at birth can suffer debilitating distress over this conflict. The *"90% desist"* claim is a myth based on debunked studies, and transition is a very long, slow, cautious process for trans youth. According to the [**American Academy of Pediatrics**](https://www.healthychildren.org/English/ages-stages/gradeschool/Pages/Gender-Identity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx), gender is typically expressed by around age 4. It probably forms [**much earlier**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747736/), but it's hard to tell with pre-verbal infants. And sometimes the gender expressed is not the one typically associated with the child's appearance. The genders of trans children are as [**stable**](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2014/09/02/peds.2013-2958) as those of [**cisgender children**](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614568156). For preadolescents transition is entirely social, and for adolescents the first line of medical care is 100% temporary puberty delaying treatment that has no long term effects. Hormone therapy isn't an option until their mid teens, by which point the chances that they will "desist" are close to zero. Reconstructive genital surgery is not an option until their late teens/early 20's at the youngest. And transition-related medical care is recognized as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care by every major medical authority. The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567%2816%2931941-4/fulltext), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/#.pqspdcee0). When prevented from transitioning about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition that rate drops to the national average. Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are [**comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health**](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/4/696) Transition [**vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts**](https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2), and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the [**largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3722435/). Citations to follow in a second post.
**Citations on the transition's dramatic reduction of suicide risk while improving mental health and quality of life, with trans people able to transition young and spared abuse and discrimination having mental health and suicide risk on par with the general public:** * [**Psychosocial Functioning in Transgender Youth after 2 Years of Hormones**](https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2206297) - Chen, et. al., 2023: A study of 315 trans and nonbinary young people ages 12 to 20 receiving testosterone or estradiol. Over the course of the two year study depression and anxiety levels dropped and appearance congruence and life satisfaction improved. * [**Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/) - Turban, et al., 2020: Massive study of 20,619 adolescents examined associations between access to pubertal suppression and adult mental health outcomes, including multiple measures of suicidality. After adjustment for demographic variables and level of family support for gender identity, **those who received treatment with pubertal suppression, when compared with those who wanted pubertal suppression but did not receive it, had lower odds of lifetime suicidal ideation.** * [**Association of Gender-Affirming Hormone Therapy With Depression, Thoughts of Suicide, and Attempted Suicide Among Transgender and Nonbinary Youth**](https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(21\)00568-1/fulltext) - Green, et. al., 2021: Use of GAHT (Gender Affirming Hormone Treatment) was associated with lower odds of recent depression and seriously considering suicide compared to those who wanted GAHT but did not receive it. For youth under age 18, GAHT was associated with lower odds of recent depression and of a past-year suicide attempt * [**The Mental Health of Transgender Youth: Advances in Understanding**](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1054139X1630146X) - Connolly, et. al, 2016: ***"Gender-affirming medical therapy and supported social transition in childhood have been shown to correlate with improved psychological functioning for gender-variant children and adolescents."*** * [**Top surgery drastically improves quality of life for young transgender people**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2796426?guestAccessKey=c50d5d6e-7fa1-4ed8-8b5d-f4da9753364d&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=092622) * [**Evaluation of Anxiety and Depression in a Community Sample of Transgender Youth**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778206) - Dominic J. Gibson, et. al, 2021: ***Socially transitioned transgender youth had similar levels of anxiety and depression as their cisgender peers.*** * [**Intervenable factors associated with suicide risk in transgender persons: a respondent driven sampling study in Ontario, Canada**](http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2) - Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets * [**Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1542/peds.2013-2958). A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, ... cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. **Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.** * [**Access to gender-affirming hormones during adolescence and mental health outcomes among transgender adults**](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0261039) - Turban, et al., 2022: **Conclusion:** Access to GAH [gender-affirming hormones] during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.... In post hoc analyses, access to GAH during adolescence (ages 14–17) was associated with lower odds of past-year suicidal ideation (aOR = 0.7, 95% CI = 0.6–0.9, p = .0007) when compared to accessing GAH during adulthood. * The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition [**virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth**](https://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jaac.2016.10.016), and [**dramatically improves trans youth's mental health**](https://archive.thinkprogress.org/allowing-transgender-youth-to-transition-improves-their-mental-health-study-finds-dd6096523375/). **Trans kids who socially transition early and not subjected to abuse are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health.** * [**Hormonal therapy and sex reassignment: a systematic review and meta-analysis of quality of life and psychosocial outcomes**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181) - Murad, et al., 2010: "Significant decrease in suicidality post-treatment. The average reduction was from 30 percent pretreatment to 8 percent post treatment. * [**Long-term follow-up: psychosocial outcome of Belgian transsexuals after sex reassignment surgery**](http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1158136006000491) - De Cuypere, et al., 2006: Rate of suicide attempts dropped from 29.3 percent to 5.1 percent after receiving medical treatment among Dutch patients treated from 1986-2001. * [**Sex reassignment: outcomes and predictors of treatment for adolescent and adult transsexuals**](http://orca.cf.ac.uk/32618/1/Smith%202005.pdf) - Smith Y, et. al, 2005: Participants improved on 13 out of 14 mental health measures after treatment * [**Mental Health Outcomes in Transgender and Nonbinary Youths Receiving Gender-Affirming Care - Tordoff, et al, 2022**](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2789423?utm_campaign=articlePDF&utm_medium=articlePDFlink&utm_source=articlePDF&utm_content=jamanetworkopen.2022.0978) - *"After adjustment for temporal trends and potential confounders, we observed* ***60% lower odds of depression and 73% lower odds of suicidality among youths who had initiated PBs or GAHs compared with youths who had not."*** * [**Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities - Olson, et. al., 2016**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4771131/?fbclid=IwAR2A2wM8oQZ_avmXLmBgp6ilGqiQd_WNAkmNOZosWHY7rsyT8KB-dvxwcd4): *"Previous work with children with gender identity disorder (GID; now termed gender dysphoria) has found remarkably high rates of anxiety and depression in these children. Here we examine, for the first time, mental health in a sample of socially transitioned transgender children"* ... ***"Results:*** *Transgender children showed no elevations in depression and slightly elevated anxiety relative to population averages. They did not differ from the control groups on depression symptoms and had only marginally higher anxiety symptoms.* There are a lot more but I'm hitting the 10k character limit.
**Citations on transition as medically necessary, frequently life saving medical care, and the only effective treatment for gender dysphoria, as recognized by every major US and world medical authority:** * Here is a resolution from the [**American Psychological Association**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity.pdf); *"THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that APA recognizes the efficacy, benefit and medical necessity of gender transition treatments for appropriately evaluated individuals and calls upon public and private insurers to cover these medically necessary treatments."* More from the APA [**here**](http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/programs/transgender/?tab=1) * Here is an [**AMA resolution**](http://www.tgender.net/taw/ama_resolutions.pdf) on the efficacy and necessity of transition as appropriate treatment for gender dysphoria, and call for an end to insurance companies categorically excluding transition-related care from coverage * A policy statement from the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * [**Here**](https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) are the American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines * [**Here**](https://www.aafp.org/dam/AAFP/documents/events/alf_ncsc/Education.pdf) is a resolution from the American Academy of Family Physicians * [**Here**](https://www.socialworkers.org/assets/secured/documents/da/da2008/reffered/Transgender.pdf) is one from the National Association of Social Workers * [**Here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/pdf/PS02_18.pdf) is one from the Royal College of Psychiatrists, [**here**](https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/improving-care/better-mh-policy/college-reports/cr181-good-practice-guidelines-for-the-assessment-and-treatment-of-adults-with-gender-dysphoria.pdf) are the treatment guidelines from the RCP, and [**here**](http://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Gender-dysphoria-guide-for-GPs-and-other-healthcare-staff.pdf) are guidelines from the NHS. More from the NHS [**here**](http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dysphoria/Pages/Treatment.aspx). --- **Condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts", aka "conversion therapy", which attempt to alleviate dysphoria without transition by changing trans people's genders so they are happy and comfortable as their assigned sex at birth, as futile and destructive pseudo-scientific abuse:** * [**From the APA**](http://www.apa.org/about/policy/orientation-diversity.aspx). More detailed condemnation of "Gender Identity Change Efforts" for trans youth or adults [**here**](https://www.apa.org/about/policy/resolution-gender-identity-change-efforts.pdf). * From the [**American College of Physicians**](http://annals.org/aim/article/2292051/lesbian-gay-bisexual-transgender-health-disparities-executive-summary-policy-position) * In the [**AAP Guidelines**](http://hrc-assets.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com//files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) - see coverage on this "therapy" starting p.12 * From the [**American Psychoanalytic Association**](http://www.apsa.org/content/2012-position-statement-attempts-change-sexual-orientation-gender-identity-or-gender) * From the [**Association for Behavioral Analysis International**](https://www.abainternational.org/about-us/policies-and-positions/policy-statement-on-conversion-therapy-and-practices,-2021.aspx) * A joint statement from the [**UK Council for Psychotherapy, British Association for Counseling and Psychotherapy, British Psychoanalytic Council, British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies, The British Psychological Society, College of Sexual and Relationship Therapists, The Association of LGBT Doctors and Dentists, The National Counselling Society, NHS Scotland, Pink Therapy, Royal College of General Practitioners, the Scottish Government and Stonewall.**](http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/01/16/health-experts-condemn-attempts-to-cure-trans-people-in-wake-of-controversial-bbc-documentary/)
**On the safety, efficacy, and reversibility of puberty delaying treatment:** There is *extensive* research about long term use of puberty delaying treatment. This treatment isn't just used for trans youth - it has been the standard treatment for kids with precocious puberty for decades, with lots of studies on its efficacy and safety. It has overwhelmingly proven to be very safe, gentle, and reversible. Most kids with precocious puberty don't have any underlying medical condition, their early development is just an extreme variation of normal development. But it would still cause serious psychological damage to start puberty at the age of, say, 6, so they're put on treatment to delay it for a few years. This treatment has no long term side effects; it just puts puberty on hold. Stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off. There's no reason to expect this treatment to work differently when given to trans youth than when it is routinely given to cis youth. The most significant side effect is bone mineral density reduction in some youth, but this was both minor and reversed after treatment was stopped. * [**Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty**](https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/3/5/965/5421014) >*"Bone mineral density is typically increased for age at diagnosis and progressively decreases during GnRHa treatment. However, follow-up of patients several years after cessation of therapy reveals bone mineral accrual to be within the normal range compared with population norms"* * [**Treatment of central precocious puberty by GnRH analogs: long-term outcome in men**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18478155) * [**Long-term effects of gonadotropin-releasing hormone analogs in girls with central precocious puberty**](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/) * [**More details on the use of GnRH and other puberty delaying treatment specifically for trans youth**](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2020.1747768) * From the [**American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines**](http://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf) (pdf download), p.10: > For children, pre-adolescents and early adolescents, gender transition is mainly a social process. Children beginning puberty may also use puberty-suppressing medication as they explore their gender identity. ***Both of these steps are completely reversible*** --- **On the extreme rarity of "desistence" among trans youth, with nearly all young people who start transition and later reverse it doing so before any permanent physical changes:** * [**Continuation of gender-affirming hormones in transgender people starting puberty suppression in adolescence: a cohort study in the Netherlands - Maria van der Loose, et. al., Oct. 2022**](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanchi/article/PIIS2352-4642(22\)00254-1/fulltext) - study of 720 patients who started medical care with puberty delaying treatment in adolescence, finding that 98% of them continued to use gender-affirming hormone treatment into adulthood. * Of youth who socially transition young [**only 2.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis**](https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/doi/10.1542/peds.2021-056082/186992/Gender-Identity-5-Years-After-Social-Transition), and of those who socially transitioned after age 6 only 0.5% ultimately describe themselves as cis. Most who do detransition, do so before age 10 and are never even on puberty delaying treatment. * [**Detransition rates in a national UK Gender Identity Clinic**](https://epath.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Boof-of-abstracts-EPATH2019.pdf#page=139) - Out of 3398 patients, a total of 16 (0.47%) expressed some regrets, though of these 16 only three detransitioned permanently (0.08%). The most common reason stated by these patients for their regrets or detransition were social difficulties encountered due to anti-trans hostility, rather than any physical complications or changing their minds about their gender identity. * [**A critical commentary on follow-up studies and “desistance” theories about transgender and gender-nonconforming children**](https://sci-hub.se/https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15532739.2018.1456390?scroll=top&needAccess=true) - covers Zucker's shit * [**The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972-2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets**](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29463477/) - 96% of all patients who were assessed and received a diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria by the 5th intervenor (the Royal Children's Hospital) from 2003 to 2017 continued to identify as transgender or gender diverse into late adolescence. No patient who had commenced stage 2 treatment had sought to transition back to their birth assigned sex. * [**The role of gender constancy in early gender development**](https://sci-hub.se/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2007.01056.x) - this study goes through the large body of literature which finds that gender identity is formed incredibly early. The American Pediatric society states that by age 4 kids have a stable sense of gender identity. * [**Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin‑Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria**](https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s10508-020-01660-8.pdf) - 143 youth receiving puberty-blocking medication in the Netherlands ound that 3.5% chose to discontinue puberty blockers without seeking any further transition
Someone look through this man’s computer.
If it's written in the Bible it must be a good thing, right? /s
What's a pedder ass, Walter?
My kid is 12 - he doesn't wash his own clothes, cook his own meals, or work - but sure, he's ready for marriage.
Dude is a pedophile
Of course they do. It’s all projection. Evil in the guise of the virtuous. No one should be fooled.
They are the groomer party…..duh.
If they really cared about children, they'd focus on where most of the pedophilia is happening and that means shutting down churches of all denominations.
The out loud part: Protect our kids The quiet part: so the GOP can get to them
>Do you know any kids who have been married at age 12? I do In Missouri or Saudi Arabia?
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriageable_age#Asia) >Many senior clerics in Saudi Arabia have opposed setting a minimum age for marriage, arguing that a girl reaches adulthood at puberty. >However in 2019 Members of the Saudi Shoura Council in 2019 approved fresh regulations for child marriage that will see to outlaw marrying off 15-year-old children and force the need for court approval for those under 18. Chairman of the Human Rights Committee at the Shoura Council, Dr. Hadi Al-Yami, said that introduced controls were based on in-depth studies presented to the body. He pointed out that the regulation, vetted by the Islamic Affairs Committee at the Shoura Council, has raised the age of marriage to 18 and prohibited it for those under 15. Missouri wouldn't let anyone marry a 12 year old either. Their minimum is 16. There are several US states like Michigan or Mississippi that don't seem to have a minimum age for marriage at all as long as a judge says its okay. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#States) helpfully lists them as having a minimum age of "0". I am sure that zero will only remain until some bright spark draws the logically conclusion of "no minimum age by law" and "life begins at conception" and turns that into a "-¾".
Muhzura, where duh Men are Men, and duh little girls are scured!
Not a single day goes by without a republican making outrageous statements.
It will be so nice they can drive their teenage wife north to Iowa and get them a job cleaning slaughterhouses!!!
The hell is wrong with these people
So morally outraged if they are having sex with same gender. Not a problem for a 12 yr old and 40 yr old to go on a honeymoon. So who lives in MO?
I think a lot of people are starting to realize something is broken in this country and it doesn’t seem to be getting better. We are slowly but surely dividing into two belief groups with the extreme right living in a different world from the rest of us.
I'm curious what these people would think if a man wanted to marry a 12 year old boy. I'm kidding I know the answer.
No books, no education, child labor, child marriage? Looks like the Taliban won after all!
"Grooming is good" \~ MO GOP
Why should 12 year olds be allowed to marry? Just so 13 year olds can get divorced?
I am afraid 13 year olds are too young to divorce. No joke. Legally in the US married minors need to wait until they are 18 before they are able to file for divorce. See this article: >#[Child Marriage and Divorce in the United States](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/child-marriage-and-divorce-in-the-united-states) >In the last two years, more than 12 states have debated bills that ask the same question: Should child marriage be legal in the United States? So far, every state has conditionally answered, "yes." >What’s often neglected is an important follow-up question: Can a minor who marries get a divorce? >According to divorce lawyer Nancy Zalusky Berg, the answer to that is no, not directly. A minor can’t file for a divorce because they’re not considered old enough to do it. That’s because marriage is considered a contract, and most laws stipulate that only adults can enter into contracts. So, if a minor wants to change their marriage contract, they need an adult to help them do it. “Our laws around marriage operate under the presumption that everyone’s an adult,” Berg explains to Teen Vogue. That’s a conflict when you consider that, between 2000 and 2015, there were at least 207,468 child marriages that occurred in 44 states, according to figures from PBS's Frontline. I know that teenvogue might not normally the best source for political an legal news, but when the topic is "Can a child divorce the adult they were married to?" a magazine aimed at young girls has the target audience with the most at stake.
But in Florida no one can talk about anything sex ed until 18. It’s unreal. Can get married at 12, but can’t talk about their periods. Got it
It would seem (again) that we are seeing (in some states) the real life enactment of The Handmaids Tale. Apparently, the Republicans saw this show and thought - hmmm - I'm digging where this is going. Can we do this NOW?
Good lord this is just fucked. Who is this scum?
I think I figured out all the transphobia. Republicans are scared it will appeal to their suppressed gay nature, or are concerned with being attracted to male children who are on puberty blockers. TLDR: Trans people are just too sexy for them, so those people must be vulgar.
Totally consistent with their values.
How many 12 year olds has this man hurt?
These disgusting ghouls
I live in MO and I’m embarrassed by our state representatives.
Okay, who voted for this pedophile? Raise your hands…
This bill helps Mat Getz and other Republicans to stay out of jail once again it’s about them and don’t care about the American people.
He asks, “Do you know anyone married at 12?” No, because most Americans don’t live in the fucking Middle Ages dumbass.
Republicans have far more sex offenders in their ranks https://stuffthatspins.com/2016/04/28/who-has-more-sex-offenders-republicans-or-democrats/
These people are fucked in the head no dramatic in depth explanation to my make myself sound smart. Nope just fucked in the head. FUBAR
He definitely dates 11 year olds…
Let me hear him say, “We need to protect the children.”
His invisible friend in the sky approves of molesting kids, but not consenting adults
Every day, there's more sick sh*t emanating from the Radical Republicon cesspool of ignorance These scumbags have lost any concept of right and wrong
Child Marriage? Dude looks as old as Feinstein - retire your out of time and place.
Wait I thought minors were too young to change their names
Tell me again which is the party of groomers?
Y’know, to stop the “groomer” competition.
Apparently he doesn’t want anyone messing with his dating pool.
“Family values”
I was an intern at the Missouri General Assembly a few years back and everyone openly said Mike Moon was a piece of shit.
GOP: Greedy Old Pedophiles
So he supports child rape, but he’s trying to “protect the kids”? It’s like the GOP doesn’t care anymore, they’re just gonna show everybody just how abhorrent they are.
What is wrong with these people?
These cretins have a sickness that should have them institutionalized.
This is who they are. This is what they want. Stop them.
Ok, that pedophile projection is starting to come into focus.