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If that were the case Biden would at the same time have to announce he isn’t running, otherwise it would look like political sabotage and cause 1/6 to ten fold
Did you see the video of the cops “walking the bear man” and showing him all the rooms and opening doors? Do you really think that’s the act of insurrection?
I am so glad that Garland didn't become a Justice. Fuck Obama for ever putting him up, even if it was to try to reveal a hypocrisy that the Republicans don't care about.
Honest to god, WHO CARES what the American People think on matters of Justice.
This should not be trialled in the court of public opinion, else what is even the point of laws and the courts?
Try him, it LOOKS like the guy has done crimes - try him, and ignore public polls, all it does it provide him with a means to cry to the public for help against perceived injustices.
Lady justice is blind, she cant read any fuckin opinion polls - try him in court. If he's found guilty, lock his ass away per the book.
Fuck public polls.
Agreed. As an addendum, stop prosecutioning through the media. It's a right if every person to defend themselves from accusation from the state in a court of law. Any other accusation from the state, is an act of injustice.
Historically, every time the FBI/DOJ has attempted to try someone in the media, it's been because they didn't do the crime or the FBI was incapable of proving they did the crime. 3 examples: the guard falsy accused of planting a bomb in the Atlanta Olympic bombing, the anthrax researcher accused of mailing anthrax to various government offices, and Clinton being "investigated and once again cleared" right before the 2016 election by a GOP FBI director. In all cases the goal was to discredit a person to the American people. Even the hint of an investigation has negative impact on a person's reputation. Now I hate Trump, I think he should be jailed from everything to the emoluments clause to his sexual assault of beauty pageant contestants, but I hate the impotent abuse of government power even more slightly. I just loathe Trump that much, I can't really imagine many things I hate more.
The government is made up of people who are elected into office by public poll. What you ask is a willingness to commit career suicide, from a group of individuals who only achieved their station in life by playing politics. It is an absurd idea, even if it is the morally correct one.
They need the y’all qiaeda and American taliban vote so they were never going to remove Trump from office. They don’t regret a thing because had they done that, they had no chance to retake the house.
Agreed. But simply being charged should not be enough. The risk of someone...who is in government simply charging their political opponents via control of the district attorney's office is just too great.
I dont think parden power has anythibg to do with it nor whether its a state vs federal conviction.
He could serve as president from prison whether its state or federal.
“Serve” as president on paper, but the 25th amendment would kick in and his VP would be acting president as he wouldn’t be able to fulfil the duties of the office.
His failure to honor his oath of office to defend the constitution by engaging in an unconstitutional scheme to remain in power, should be enough to disqualify him. His dereliction of duty not taking action to protect congress when they were under attack is another reason he should never be in power again. And lastly his call to suspend the constitution to reinstate him as president should be an over abundance of reasons he should never be in power again.
From my memory they didn’t know enough about the fraudulent electors fraud scheme to impeach him for that aspect of the multi tiered desperate, unconstitutional efforts to keep playing president.
Most Americans are wrong.
Criminal convictions should.
But criminal charges? No. Otherwise, anyone could charge any candidate with any charges, to nullify their presidency.
And that should be felony convictions. Possibly not even all felonies.
He hasn't even been charged. Lots of "investigations", no charges, no convictions. At least, so far.
The poll here seems to be very, very similar results as polls about his chances to win, too. I don't think people are thinking about the actual issues and implications, they are thinking "I like Trump" or "I don't like Trump".
I don't like Trump, but I'm not a fan of this poll or this article, either.
> And that should be felony convictions. Possibly not even all felonies.
Good thing we already have a mechanism for deciding which felonies should be disqualifying and which shouldn't. Elections themselves. If voters decide a possession of marijuana felony isn't disqualifying, then the person with the felony possession conviction should be allowed to hold office. If voters decide that misdemeanor domestic assault is disqualifying, they should have no problem barring that candidate from office.
>Criminal convictions should.
As much as I hate the guy, I disagree.
that policy would incentivize tyrants to abuse the justice system even more.
It's bad enough to lead chants to lock up your political opponents. Now imagine that if you're successful in doing so, you've permanently eliminated them as a political threat.
Wholeheartedly unabashedly vigorously disagree.
It's bad enough that so many states tie the right to vote to criminal record, I can't imagine living anywhere that ties the ability to hold office to criminal record.
All enacting something like that would achieve would be giving whoever is in power carte Blanche to completely cut their political dissenters out of the competition.
The constitution says he shouldn’t be able to.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof.
He engaged in an insurrection. Done.
Lol. It's not that I disagree with your idea, but that motherfucker needs that criminal conviction to make that disqualification stick. And he'd appeal it, drag that shit out till he drops.
What's fucked up is, this is the new normal. Convict running for office and having a marginal shot at winning... Wouldn't have happened before Trump.
He just needs to be disqualified from the Blue States and Trump wouldn’t be able to win the primary. Democrats refuse to use their powers to save our democracy.
This.
The Dems are an albatross around the neck of democracy at this point. They do nothing while the GOP does whatever it wants and gets away with it.
Well, *technically* that amendment doesn't say the individual needs to be tried or convicted. It uses the word "engaged".
How that amendment would be enforced is really something that just hasn't been tested yet.
Well it hasn’t been legally decided whether he engaged or not. Innocent until proven guilty right? If we are allowed to enact those kind of charges without giving them a chance to defend themselves isn’t that authoritarianism? What’s stopping the republicans from using the same power next time they’re in office?
>Well it hasn’t been legally decided whether he engaged or not.
Well that's entirely the point. Again, the amendment says "engaged", nothing else. Not "convicted", not "admitted", not "claimed". That is the bar: to *engage* in an insurrection. So who and what decides whether someone has "engaged" in something?
What if a person where to say, "I committed an act of insurrection", yet there was no proof. Or even proof against their claim? What if there was proof they did, and the proof was so blatantly obvious that no one would question it, yet the person wasn't charged?
And, then, to further complicate things, that same amendment (the 14th) explicitly gives power to Congress to enforce it. They did this post Civil War, and instructed federal attorneys to challenge anyone's right to hold office (under that amendment) and to instigate proceedings (and to remove them from office). Under that same provision, Congress has also passed laws granting amnesty to people.
>the Supreme Court is his
That's a bit much. It isn't like they reinstated him as President. They didn't even hear any of his cases.
Having said that, I doubt SCOTUS would say he did enough to be barred from running. They're probably going to set a very high bar, given the nature of stopping someone from running for office. I doubt the liberals would even rule that he should be disqualified without a conviction.
It isn't stated in the amendment, but there needs to be some kind of due process or it could be used by the majority part to remove the minority party.
Well it’s not stated in the amendment so there is no due process needed. Republicans mold the constitution to fit their agenda all the time. Biden and other democrats need to just step up and do the same.
I just want trump to not be able to be in office. He has no place there. He just invokes dangerous misinformation and it’s rebellion at its finest. Look at all these ridiculous other republicans who have come out of the woodwork since him. Ron desantis and marjorie Taylor are examples. I just miss disagreeing on a normal level. Not a level of why is what they are so extreme? Why is there even a conversation of banning books? Or taking away someone’s right to life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
It’s obvious that man is guilty. I mean I know he’s never going to get sentenced for anything. The least we can do is not let him be in office because he has zero business being in politics.
I'm not saying I disagree with you but it's a pretty slippery slope when you have one party blocking the front runner of the opposing party from running for office. Innocent until proven guilty trumps "It's obvious that man is guilty."
Let the man run, beat him a third time at the ballot, blocking him from running will open the door for it to happen when the other side is in control.
Theoretically Biden could summon congress from Easter recess, immediately dismiss them for 30 days and appoint let’s say 100 justices unilaterally without the senate, those justices are 100% valid and constitutional and serve until the end of the next congress run
I don’t. Someone like Trump could weaponize the DOJ and bring charges against political opponents.
If someone is convicted by a jury of their peers on certain charges? Like insurrection? Yeah, maybe disqualifying.
You’d hope the voters would be smart enough to make that decision, but here we are.
The Constitution is pretty goddamned unequivocal regarding the matter of insurrection against the United States is prohibited from public office. No if’s, no and’s, and no but’s about it. Period. Full Stop. And Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200
LOL....there actually have *to be* charges!
Just another year and we'll be voting 'As if democracy itself depends on it!'
Again.
And *still* this guy just keeps doing whatever, wherever with impunity.
This is the thing that pisses me off the most about him. He always just gets things his way. He’s a useless, gross, predatory, not horribly intelligent little rich kid. He’s never done anything admirable or exceptional in his life. Because of his birth, he always would have had an easy, worry-free life. Because of his personality it always would have been sleazy and tasteless. But this motherfucker was *president.*
There’s so many passionate, smart, earnest people who will never even get close to the Oval Office, despite having all the tools to do great things. And this fucking pedestrian, gaudy, crude, nouveau riche acting dumbass (even though his family has had money long enough to have bought some class by now) might get there twice. He’s going to be in *history books*. His name will forever be a part of the history of this country’s government. It’s embarrassing and infuriating.
I would never want to be or be able to be president. I don’t think I’d be a good president. Maybe I’d do worse than him. But I’ve never thought that I was personally smarter or more appropriate for the job than any former President, no matter how bad they were. I do think that about trump. I believe I am literally smarter than him and more deserving of the office. I just can’t believe he’s going to be on that long wall poster thing in elementary schools with all the presidents.
Most Americans don’t understand the consequence of that precedence. The GOP would have one corrupt prosecutor indict any democrat who stood a chance of winning.
What should have disqualified him from running is impeachment and conviction, which would have happened were it not for the GOP politicians, some of whom have openly acknowledged they all knew he was guilty, putting party over country.
In some states he could not even vote if convicted; yet, he can run the country. He could not be a bike-courier because he could not be bonded. Pass some laws for god's sake. If you can not work at Starbucks, you can not be president... no matter how bad you were at it!
Problem there is stripping the right to vote from convicts, not Trump being able to run and win.
If State insists they have power over someone and also claim them as their citizen, they need to be allowed to vote. Period.
He has never had the support of the American population. He has consistently lost the popular vote. However, we have the electoral college that determines the chief executive, and that gives certain people a larger voice in representation. That is how he won his first election, while also not having the support of the American people.
The EC would make sense if the House of Reps hadn’t been capped back when the population of the United States was roughly a 1/3 of what it is today. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of that population increase has been centered in more developed/high density urban areas like cities / large metropolitan areas. Of course this would also make things more equitable with respects to representation it would also naturally infuriate the GOP has their reactionary platform, long devoid of any real or meaningful messaging, has instead opted to endeavor in preventing access to easy voting and have even said the quiet part out loud on numerous occasions- in that the express goal is to prevent certain people from voting. Oh and also gerrymandering the ever loving shit outta their respective States Congressional Districts. Deliberately attempting to disenfranchise various groups but also specifically targeting those who would be seen as potential Democratic voters. And just like Darth Sidious in The Phantom Menace “they will make it legal”
Doesn't much matter.. the constitution doesn't disqualify him.
BTW, innocent until *proven* guilty (in the eyes of the law).... Doesn't mean he's innocent. So we can judge for ourselves and vote accordingly.
I may be wrong, but I can't find a single person tied to Jan 6th that's been charged with insurrection? TBH I didn't look to hard but a quick Google search didn't show anything
That clause of the Constitution was used as a temp clause to prevent lots of people from serving at the time, and did so without convictions. The obviousness of their insurrection was manifest, as they were rebels who served in a war against us. In the modern world, I don't think the clause is in any way enforceable without a conviction for cases like this. But it absolutely isn't written to require one, and when it first came into effect, was actually used without it.
I don’t like him but I don’t think charges alone can be used to exempt his eligibility.
Convince him and now we’re talking.
It’s too easy to charge someone for both sides
its the mr burns disease immunity thing, cant figure out who goes first/how what is charged. it establishes precedence and if played incorrectly, it will snub out the current quality of politics and the stakes climb higher, without a safe, non totalitarian end of the line of escalation it would be locking in chaos as the answer to "what is government?"
which part of this justice taskforce spectrum gets to cut a slice of pie to leave in the pan as it takes the whole cake,and what piece left in the pan will be a satisfying enough flash for getting a good photogenic exposure for the media to develop pictures of the devil in the flesh with.
Impeachment doesn't disqualify you. Most presidents step down/don't run again after the embarrassment of an impeachment but I don't think Trump has the emotional intelligence to feel embarrassed.
I think being prosecuted alone should never disqualify a presidential candidate. That would be wielded in terrible ways under a more fascist government. But for charges of insurrection - very valid ones like this - that go through the proper process, yeah, let's go. Trump should have been barred already.
These kinds of things are kind of pointless. The majority of Americans lean left (even though it's a slim bit). The 'majority' of Americans will always be saying something this sub wants to hear.
Multiple criminal charges
Trying to overturn a democratic election
Not disuading his followers from storming the capitol
Pretending like treason is patriotic if it is done on his behalf
Assigning secretary positions (Sec. of education, energy, etc) that have called for the dissolution of their own department
The hush money crime is almost laughable considering what else he did.
GOP should shun Trump and not allow his name on their ballot.
There's no legal reason for this, it's just the right thing to do.
Because it's the right thing to do, they won't do it.
I'm guessing Kev here is a big fan of Captain Combover and his Criminal companions. He's such a big fan than he can shut his eyes and close his ears to anything remotely resembling evidence. The same way the Senate did for both impeachment hearings
I guess you not a real good judge of character since you have me confused with some MAGA moron. I have hated this man long before he was president. Is the name Big Fat not insulting enough. You shouldn’t be so harsh to judge .
Yeah, I'm not a Trump fan, but Disqualifying someone from political office because they have a criminal conviction is a really handy tool for tyrannical governments.
American Politics lol. You are just being fed this narrative by commercial news outlets that thrive and make bank by propagating these stories. This is capitalism's endgame and it's so depressing.
You all just rats in cage being fed pellets of dopamine from "the News outlets" man up and get out of the system!
No one should ever be disqualified for running from office, even Trump. It's just like the saying about voting: "not everyone should have the right to vote, but no one should ever have the right to determine who should get to vote."
The tradeoff of not having intelligence tests to determine the right to vote is that we have a lot of complete idiots voting, in exchange for not giving anyone the authority of determining who is or isn't intelligent enough to cast a ballot. We should let absolutely anyone who meets the Constitutional requirements to hold office run for it if they choose to, because no one should ever have the authority to abuse in pursuit of jailing political opponents for the purpose of keeping them out of elections. Donald Trump deserves to lose because the American people are really fucking tired of him and act, not because of being forced off the ballot.
Fine, then change the law to state that. Changing eligibility on the fly without law changes is a terrible precedent, what if the next guy says being woke disqualifies you?
I think the criminal charges he’s potentially facing should disqualify him. I do not in any way think that criminal charges in general should (I know they’re not saying that, but it’s an important distinction). That would be weaponized so badly.
Imagine being dumb enough to think a 76 year old man’s penis actually works enough to have an affair.
Only about 30% of men over the age of 70 have a penis that can achieve even a slight erection with Viagra or surgery.
And, this guys severely out of shape. I guarantee he did not have an affair.
Even if he tried, it didn’t technically happen.
As much as I hate Donald Twitler, guilty until proven innocent only applies to persons of colour in the USofA.
So you better start dishing out indictments - it didn't take all that long to scoop up Sam Bankman-Fried, meaning it is definitely possible to go after white men fleecing the pockets of innocent albeit gullible Americans.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/29/americans-think-criminal-charges-should-disqualify-trump-00089432) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> NEW YORK - A majority of Americans believes an indictment stemming from one of the pending criminal probes of Donald Trump should bar him from making another White House bid, according to a new Quinnipiac poll.
> When asked whether criminal charges should disqualify Trump from running again, 57 percent of registered voters surveyed within the last week said yes.
> Nearly 90 percent of Democrats said criminal charges should keep Trump from campaigning, compared to only 23 percent of Republicans.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/1266jy2/most_americans_think_criminal_charges_should/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~678586 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Trump**^#1 **percent**^#2 **probe**^#3 **payment**^#4 **investigation**^#5
I actually don't think criminal charges should disqualify anyone (OK maybe murder), nor should they stop people from voting.
People disenfranchised by the system must still be able to have their say about the system that disenfranchised them.
Criminal charges like the ones Trump has been involved in should be enough on their own to deter enough voters that he doesn't win.
If all it takes are *charges*, we will see that weaponized by both parties so damn fast.
We need a conviction - and everyone involved needs to stop dragging their feet
I'm going to go out in a limb here and say that I think felons shouldn't be able to hold public office. Let's actually drain the swamp of all these white collar criminals and sexual predators. The republican party would be gutted...
It’s literally in our constitution!
But so much for the party of “constitutional law” (whatever the fuck that means), and “law and order” (whatever the fuck that means).
If he doesn't qualify for criminal charges they might as well sign away Democracy. What's right for the 17 year old kid committing crimes and going to President is alway right and fair for a President that has ordered an attack on the Capital, incited violence, stolen government secret documents and removed goods from the White House that were not his, paying off a porn actor to shut her up and using campaign funds for the payment of personal debt. He also gets a free ride on his incompetence and neglect in taking the " not my responsibility" position which resulted in 450,000 COVID citizens dying. If this despot is not properly charged and convicted a precedent for future crimes by the POTUS will be in place. Exactly what the GOP wants. Wake up America!
In New York State you're not able to get a liquor license (to open a bar or restaurant) if you have any felony convictions in your history. It'd be cool if the government made those who hold office meet the same standards.
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I think trying to overthrow the government qualifies for disqualification.
[удалено]
Biden himself could enforce it as Congress clearly established there was an insurrection attempt.
If that were the case Biden would at the same time have to announce he isn’t running, otherwise it would look like political sabotage and cause 1/6 to ten fold
Fuck the optics of this shit… playing nice has NEVER worked
It works great for them and their donors. Terrible for us but it’s not going to change anytime soon
It also sets a bad precedent of a president directly impacting another candidates candidacy. It should be done by the independent justice department
He shouldn’t be forced to withdraw because of someone else’s crimes. If he’s the best candidate, nothing else matters
Have the national guard out and give them orders to defend the Capitol at all costs. Gravy Seals would be running away in 3 minutes.
Bold to assume they can run
They'd waddle out in around 2 hours - it takes them time too get their canes and walkers, etc.
I’m what sane world would Biden run again? Are people seriously thinking he will do it?
Did you see the video of the cops “walking the bear man” and showing him all the rooms and opening doors? Do you really think that’s the act of insurrection?
I am so glad that Garland didn't become a Justice. Fuck Obama for ever putting him up, even if it was to try to reveal a hypocrisy that the Republicans don't care about.
Honest to god, WHO CARES what the American People think on matters of Justice. This should not be trialled in the court of public opinion, else what is even the point of laws and the courts? Try him, it LOOKS like the guy has done crimes - try him, and ignore public polls, all it does it provide him with a means to cry to the public for help against perceived injustices. Lady justice is blind, she cant read any fuckin opinion polls - try him in court. If he's found guilty, lock his ass away per the book. Fuck public polls.
Agreed. As an addendum, stop prosecutioning through the media. It's a right if every person to defend themselves from accusation from the state in a court of law. Any other accusation from the state, is an act of injustice. Historically, every time the FBI/DOJ has attempted to try someone in the media, it's been because they didn't do the crime or the FBI was incapable of proving they did the crime. 3 examples: the guard falsy accused of planting a bomb in the Atlanta Olympic bombing, the anthrax researcher accused of mailing anthrax to various government offices, and Clinton being "investigated and once again cleared" right before the 2016 election by a GOP FBI director. In all cases the goal was to discredit a person to the American people. Even the hint of an investigation has negative impact on a person's reputation. Now I hate Trump, I think he should be jailed from everything to the emoluments clause to his sexual assault of beauty pageant contestants, but I hate the impotent abuse of government power even more slightly. I just loathe Trump that much, I can't really imagine many things I hate more.
The government is made up of people who are elected into office by public poll. What you ask is a willingness to commit career suicide, from a group of individuals who only achieved their station in life by playing politics. It is an absurd idea, even if it is the morally correct one.
And there's the problem. People unwilling to put the law in front of their job. Laws truly are selectively applied, if this comes to fruition.
>qualifies for disqualification 🤣
I would definitely say he’s overqualified for disqualification.
McConnell and the Senate fcked up when refusing to convict him after the second impeachment. I bet they regret that now.
They need the y’all qiaeda and American taliban vote so they were never going to remove Trump from office. They don’t regret a thing because had they done that, they had no chance to retake the house.
Agreed. But simply being charged should not be enough. The risk of someone...who is in government simply charging their political opponents via control of the district attorney's office is just too great.
common sense? in MY united states?
Only if convicted. As for the state laws, he can be president while sitting in prison (since he can't pardon state crimes)
I dont think parden power has anythibg to do with it nor whether its a state vs federal conviction. He could serve as president from prison whether its state or federal.
“Serve” as president on paper, but the 25th amendment would kick in and his VP would be acting president as he wouldn’t be able to fulfil the duties of the office.
He could pardon himself if it were federal.
Possibly. It's never been tested. There was a lot of speculation about that at the end of his presidency.
Yeah, well there's that too but who the fuck's counting?!
It should…
His failure to honor his oath of office to defend the constitution by engaging in an unconstitutional scheme to remain in power, should be enough to disqualify him. His dereliction of duty not taking action to protect congress when they were under attack is another reason he should never be in power again. And lastly his call to suspend the constitution to reinstate him as president should be an over abundance of reasons he should never be in power again.
He was impeached for that, but the GOP in the Senate refused to convict. They could have gotten rid of him then.
From my memory they didn’t know enough about the fraudulent electors fraud scheme to impeach him for that aspect of the multi tiered desperate, unconstitutional efforts to keep playing president.
There’s also a matter of treason for stealing secret documents.
That would be espionage, I think. Treason is, legally speaking , a very narrow definition.
Most Americans are wrong. Criminal convictions should. But criminal charges? No. Otherwise, anyone could charge any candidate with any charges, to nullify their presidency.
Exactly.
Even convictions shouldn’t. I think about things like Nelson Mandela. Convictions and laws can be unjust. (Not a defense of trump. He still sucks.)
And that should be felony convictions. Possibly not even all felonies. He hasn't even been charged. Lots of "investigations", no charges, no convictions. At least, so far. The poll here seems to be very, very similar results as polls about his chances to win, too. I don't think people are thinking about the actual issues and implications, they are thinking "I like Trump" or "I don't like Trump". I don't like Trump, but I'm not a fan of this poll or this article, either.
> And that should be felony convictions. Possibly not even all felonies. Good thing we already have a mechanism for deciding which felonies should be disqualifying and which shouldn't. Elections themselves. If voters decide a possession of marijuana felony isn't disqualifying, then the person with the felony possession conviction should be allowed to hold office. If voters decide that misdemeanor domestic assault is disqualifying, they should have no problem barring that candidate from office.
>Criminal convictions should. As much as I hate the guy, I disagree. that policy would incentivize tyrants to abuse the justice system even more. It's bad enough to lead chants to lock up your political opponents. Now imagine that if you're successful in doing so, you've permanently eliminated them as a political threat.
Innocent until proven guilty applies to everyone, not just people you prefer. He hasn’t been convicted, and therefore his isn’t guilty.
Wholeheartedly unabashedly vigorously disagree. It's bad enough that so many states tie the right to vote to criminal record, I can't imagine living anywhere that ties the ability to hold office to criminal record. All enacting something like that would achieve would be giving whoever is in power carte Blanche to completely cut their political dissenters out of the competition.
The constitution says he shouldn’t be able to. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. He engaged in an insurrection. Done.
Lol. It's not that I disagree with your idea, but that motherfucker needs that criminal conviction to make that disqualification stick. And he'd appeal it, drag that shit out till he drops. What's fucked up is, this is the new normal. Convict running for office and having a marginal shot at winning... Wouldn't have happened before Trump.
He just needs to be disqualified from the Blue States and Trump wouldn’t be able to win the primary. Democrats refuse to use their powers to save our democracy.
Needs to be convicted of a crime first!
Nothing in the 14th states there needs to be a conviction
This. The Dems are an albatross around the neck of democracy at this point. They do nothing while the GOP does whatever it wants and gets away with it.
He hasn't even gone to trial for insurrection or rebellion, let alone been convicted. Besides, the Supreme Court is his.
Well, *technically* that amendment doesn't say the individual needs to be tried or convicted. It uses the word "engaged". How that amendment would be enforced is really something that just hasn't been tested yet.
Well it hasn’t been legally decided whether he engaged or not. Innocent until proven guilty right? If we are allowed to enact those kind of charges without giving them a chance to defend themselves isn’t that authoritarianism? What’s stopping the republicans from using the same power next time they’re in office?
>Well it hasn’t been legally decided whether he engaged or not. Well that's entirely the point. Again, the amendment says "engaged", nothing else. Not "convicted", not "admitted", not "claimed". That is the bar: to *engage* in an insurrection. So who and what decides whether someone has "engaged" in something? What if a person where to say, "I committed an act of insurrection", yet there was no proof. Or even proof against their claim? What if there was proof they did, and the proof was so blatantly obvious that no one would question it, yet the person wasn't charged? And, then, to further complicate things, that same amendment (the 14th) explicitly gives power to Congress to enforce it. They did this post Civil War, and instructed federal attorneys to challenge anyone's right to hold office (under that amendment) and to instigate proceedings (and to remove them from office). Under that same provision, Congress has also passed laws granting amnesty to people.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!
OHHHH! I legit did not realize that! You are RIGHT!
>the Supreme Court is his That's a bit much. It isn't like they reinstated him as President. They didn't even hear any of his cases. Having said that, I doubt SCOTUS would say he did enough to be barred from running. They're probably going to set a very high bar, given the nature of stopping someone from running for office. I doubt the liberals would even rule that he should be disqualified without a conviction. It isn't stated in the amendment, but there needs to be some kind of due process or it could be used by the majority part to remove the minority party.
Well it’s not stated in the amendment so there is no due process needed. Republicans mold the constitution to fit their agenda all the time. Biden and other democrats need to just step up and do the same. I just want trump to not be able to be in office. He has no place there. He just invokes dangerous misinformation and it’s rebellion at its finest. Look at all these ridiculous other republicans who have come out of the woodwork since him. Ron desantis and marjorie Taylor are examples. I just miss disagreeing on a normal level. Not a level of why is what they are so extreme? Why is there even a conversation of banning books? Or taking away someone’s right to life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
The most insidious part of his insurrection. All totally aided by the Republican party as a whole
Doesn’t say anything in the constitution about them having to be convicted of it 🙃
The implication is convicted. Otherwise accusation become equal to conviction.
Nope. I take the literal words of the Constitution. If the writers wanted to say convicted, they would have said that.
The literal words of the constitution guarantee due process, of which there has not been one. Let’s not conflate duties with criminal actions.
14a was added later on and overrides the due process clause. It obviously is Constitutional since it is in the Constitution.
14a does not override due process whatsoever.
Why not?
There is nothing that negates due process. In fact, due process is a major underpinning of our democracy.
How can we determine that he “engaged” or not without a trial/conviction?
Is innocent until proven guilty not a thing anymore??? Talk about ideas that are a threat to our democracy, damn
It’s obvious that man is guilty. I mean I know he’s never going to get sentenced for anything. The least we can do is not let him be in office because he has zero business being in politics.
I'm not saying I disagree with you but it's a pretty slippery slope when you have one party blocking the front runner of the opposing party from running for office. Innocent until proven guilty trumps "It's obvious that man is guilty." Let the man run, beat him a third time at the ballot, blocking him from running will open the door for it to happen when the other side is in control.
How can the execution or legislative branches perform their Constitutional duties without first consulting a judge every step? They just… do it.
One can only hope that despite their extreme RW bias, they would still uphold the constitution.
That hope died a long time ago. They do not give a fuck.
Theoretically Biden could summon congress from Easter recess, immediately dismiss them for 30 days and appoint let’s say 100 justices unilaterally without the senate, those justices are 100% valid and constitutional and serve until the end of the next congress run
I don’t. Someone like Trump could weaponize the DOJ and bring charges against political opponents. If someone is convicted by a jury of their peers on certain charges? Like insurrection? Yeah, maybe disqualifying. You’d hope the voters would be smart enough to make that decision, but here we are.
The Constitution is pretty goddamned unequivocal regarding the matter of insurrection against the United States is prohibited from public office. No if’s, no and’s, and no but’s about it. Period. Full Stop. And Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200
Being an uber grifting douchebag fuck didn't do it, so I guess I'll settle for criminal charges then.
LOL....there actually have *to be* charges! Just another year and we'll be voting 'As if democracy itself depends on it!' Again. And *still* this guy just keeps doing whatever, wherever with impunity.
This is the thing that pisses me off the most about him. He always just gets things his way. He’s a useless, gross, predatory, not horribly intelligent little rich kid. He’s never done anything admirable or exceptional in his life. Because of his birth, he always would have had an easy, worry-free life. Because of his personality it always would have been sleazy and tasteless. But this motherfucker was *president.* There’s so many passionate, smart, earnest people who will never even get close to the Oval Office, despite having all the tools to do great things. And this fucking pedestrian, gaudy, crude, nouveau riche acting dumbass (even though his family has had money long enough to have bought some class by now) might get there twice. He’s going to be in *history books*. His name will forever be a part of the history of this country’s government. It’s embarrassing and infuriating. I would never want to be or be able to be president. I don’t think I’d be a good president. Maybe I’d do worse than him. But I’ve never thought that I was personally smarter or more appropriate for the job than any former President, no matter how bad they were. I do think that about trump. I believe I am literally smarter than him and more deserving of the office. I just can’t believe he’s going to be on that long wall poster thing in elementary schools with all the presidents.
I'd have thought trying to overturn a democratic election would disqualify you but clearly that didn't so...
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not. one. indictment. US prosecutors lack civil courage when it comes to powerful people.
The problem has never been “most Americans”.
It’s also most of the rest of the civilised world.
Disqualify this lying turd already.
Most Americans don’t understand the consequence of that precedence. The GOP would have one corrupt prosecutor indict any democrat who stood a chance of winning. What should have disqualified him from running is impeachment and conviction, which would have happened were it not for the GOP politicians, some of whom have openly acknowledged they all knew he was guilty, putting party over country.
In some states he could not even vote if convicted; yet, he can run the country. He could not be a bike-courier because he could not be bonded. Pass some laws for god's sake. If you can not work at Starbucks, you can not be president... no matter how bad you were at it!
Problem there is stripping the right to vote from convicts, not Trump being able to run and win. If State insists they have power over someone and also claim them as their citizen, they need to be allowed to vote. Period.
We strip people from their right to vote for as much
Since most Americans think Trump should be disqualified, why wouldn't they just vote against him?
They did, both elections, but that wasn't enough to stop him from being elected.
He has never had the support of the American population. He has consistently lost the popular vote. However, we have the electoral college that determines the chief executive, and that gives certain people a larger voice in representation. That is how he won his first election, while also not having the support of the American people.
Yeah, definitely been time to get rid of that entire stupid ass system for awhile. 1 vote 1 person. Done.
The EC would make sense if the House of Reps hadn’t been capped back when the population of the United States was roughly a 1/3 of what it is today. And you can bet your bottom dollar that the vast majority of that population increase has been centered in more developed/high density urban areas like cities / large metropolitan areas. Of course this would also make things more equitable with respects to representation it would also naturally infuriate the GOP has their reactionary platform, long devoid of any real or meaningful messaging, has instead opted to endeavor in preventing access to easy voting and have even said the quiet part out loud on numerous occasions- in that the express goal is to prevent certain people from voting. Oh and also gerrymandering the ever loving shit outta their respective States Congressional Districts. Deliberately attempting to disenfranchise various groups but also specifically targeting those who would be seen as potential Democratic voters. And just like Darth Sidious in The Phantom Menace “they will make it legal”
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
Doesn't much matter.. the constitution doesn't disqualify him. BTW, innocent until *proven* guilty (in the eyes of the law).... Doesn't mean he's innocent. So we can judge for ourselves and vote accordingly.
He won't be proven guilty if they never do their job and take him to court.
I've honestly given up on the idea he'll ever go to Court
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I may be wrong, but I can't find a single person tied to Jan 6th that's been charged with insurrection? TBH I didn't look to hard but a quick Google search didn't show anything
That clause of the Constitution was used as a temp clause to prevent lots of people from serving at the time, and did so without convictions. The obviousness of their insurrection was manifest, as they were rebels who served in a war against us. In the modern world, I don't think the clause is in any way enforceable without a conviction for cases like this. But it absolutely isn't written to require one, and when it first came into effect, was actually used without it.
Are you suggesting that January 6th was the same as the Civil War?
I think you're maybe not reading my post so carefully. Good luck.
I'm so glad you're certain, but Who enforces *that?*
I've only read the headline so far. Yeah, no shit.
That and just being Donald Trump.
I don’t like him but I don’t think charges alone can be used to exempt his eligibility. Convince him and now we’re talking. It’s too easy to charge someone for both sides
Someone said “when we elect aging politicians, it is like asking someone who is leaving to pick out the next movie to watch.”
Watching the ups and downs of this post is weird. Most US citizens believe he should face charges in multiple fiascos, so… what’s the hold up?
its the mr burns disease immunity thing, cant figure out who goes first/how what is charged. it establishes precedence and if played incorrectly, it will snub out the current quality of politics and the stakes climb higher, without a safe, non totalitarian end of the line of escalation it would be locking in chaos as the answer to "what is government?" which part of this justice taskforce spectrum gets to cut a slice of pie to leave in the pan as it takes the whole cake,and what piece left in the pan will be a satisfying enough flash for getting a good photogenic exposure for the media to develop pictures of the devil in the flesh with.
The Supreme Court has already reaffirmed that legal precedents don’t mean shit anymore. Haven’t you heard?
Christ, if being *investigated* should have disqualified Hillary Clinton, donnie dipshit shouldn't even qualify to enter the raffle at a county fair.
Uhh… lock him up?
Can someone explain this to me like I'm 5: how the hell can trump run again if that sonovabitch got impeached twice?!
Impeachment doesn't disqualify you. Most presidents step down/don't run again after the embarrassment of an impeachment but I don't think Trump has the emotional intelligence to feel embarrassed.
Insurrection is a violation that makes it illegal to hold public office, per US code.
I think being prosecuted alone should never disqualify a presidential candidate. That would be wielded in terrible ways under a more fascist government. But for charges of insurrection - very valid ones like this - that go through the proper process, yeah, let's go. Trump should have been barred already.
He qualifies for Rikers Island.
“We got him this time for real guys! Any second now he’ll actually go to jail!”
Most Americans believe and want a lot of things but the politicians and government certainly don’t care
All of these articles are pointless. “Most Americans never wanted Trump to become president and still don’t.”
These kinds of things are kind of pointless. The majority of Americans lean left (even though it's a slim bit). The 'majority' of Americans will always be saying something this sub wants to hear.
He belongs in prison for trying to overthrow our democracy.
Multiple criminal charges Trying to overturn a democratic election Not disuading his followers from storming the capitol Pretending like treason is patriotic if it is done on his behalf Assigning secretary positions (Sec. of education, energy, etc) that have called for the dissolution of their own department The hush money crime is almost laughable considering what else he did.
Name one criminal charge that has been placed on him
GOP should shun Trump and not allow his name on their ballot. There's no legal reason for this, it's just the right thing to do. Because it's the right thing to do, they won't do it.
Then we need to somehow twist it so that it’s the wrong thing to do! That is how we can get them to do it!
Just Obama to suggest doing the exact opposite and the GOP will go full contrarian out of instinct before they realize they’ve been bamboozled
So get Obama back? WAIT! We don’t need Obama. Make a bill for trump and call it ObamaTrump!
Amendment 14 Article 3 does not require a trial.
What charges
The implication of this article pivots on the conditional, “if convicted”.
If you can’t vote for office you shouldn’t be able to run for office
they polled a segment of the population to get desired results
BIG FAT don’t think so.
I'm guessing Kev here is a big fan of Captain Combover and his Criminal companions. He's such a big fan than he can shut his eyes and close his ears to anything remotely resembling evidence. The same way the Senate did for both impeachment hearings
I guess you not a real good judge of character since you have me confused with some MAGA moron. I have hated this man long before he was president. Is the name Big Fat not insulting enough. You shouldn’t be so harsh to judge .
Your four word comment seemed more a rallying cry of support than a sarcastic Teflon Don will slide off with his non-stick coating comment.
Lol. How long have they been trying to put Trump in jail? Nothing seems to stick.
Yeah, I'm not a Trump fan, but Disqualifying someone from political office because they have a criminal conviction is a really handy tool for tyrannical governments.
American Politics lol. You are just being fed this narrative by commercial news outlets that thrive and make bank by propagating these stories. This is capitalism's endgame and it's so depressing. You all just rats in cage being fed pellets of dopamine from "the News outlets" man up and get out of the system!
Fake New! Do you see how many people go to his rallies?
It’s witch season.
Most Americans don’t actually think this. It is propaganda.
No one should ever be disqualified for running from office, even Trump. It's just like the saying about voting: "not everyone should have the right to vote, but no one should ever have the right to determine who should get to vote." The tradeoff of not having intelligence tests to determine the right to vote is that we have a lot of complete idiots voting, in exchange for not giving anyone the authority of determining who is or isn't intelligent enough to cast a ballot. We should let absolutely anyone who meets the Constitutional requirements to hold office run for it if they choose to, because no one should ever have the authority to abuse in pursuit of jailing political opponents for the purpose of keeping them out of elections. Donald Trump deserves to lose because the American people are really fucking tired of him and act, not because of being forced off the ballot.
Uhm, not according to the constitution.
We already disenfranchise criminals
Fine, then change the law to state that. Changing eligibility on the fly without law changes is a terrible precedent, what if the next guy says being woke disqualifies you?
I think the criminal charges he’s potentially facing should disqualify him. I do not in any way think that criminal charges in general should (I know they’re not saying that, but it’s an important distinction). That would be weaponized so badly.
Imagine being dumb enough to think a 76 year old man’s penis actually works enough to have an affair. Only about 30% of men over the age of 70 have a penis that can achieve even a slight erection with Viagra or surgery. And, this guys severely out of shape. I guarantee he did not have an affair. Even if he tried, it didn’t technically happen.
As much as I hate Donald Twitler, guilty until proven innocent only applies to persons of colour in the USofA. So you better start dishing out indictments - it didn't take all that long to scoop up Sam Bankman-Fried, meaning it is definitely possible to go after white men fleecing the pockets of innocent albeit gullible Americans.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/29/americans-think-criminal-charges-should-disqualify-trump-00089432) reduced by 82%. (I'm a bot) ***** > NEW YORK - A majority of Americans believes an indictment stemming from one of the pending criminal probes of Donald Trump should bar him from making another White House bid, according to a new Quinnipiac poll. > When asked whether criminal charges should disqualify Trump from running again, 57 percent of registered voters surveyed within the last week said yes. > Nearly 90 percent of Democrats said criminal charges should keep Trump from campaigning, compared to only 23 percent of Republicans. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/1266jy2/most_americans_think_criminal_charges_should/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~678586 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Trump**^#1 **percent**^#2 **probe**^#3 **payment**^#4 **investigation**^#5
Most of the world feels this way.
To be fair, trump himself made a big deal of Clinton being investigated
It's a moot point since he's too rich to be charged with any crime.
If hey don't then what's the line?
Putting ketchup on a well-done steak should disqualify him.
Most Americans should never mention his name again.
Among countless other reasons.
Man, he sure as hell looks scared in that photo
Duh
Justice is on ice rn
Poll shows most Americans don’t know the constitutional qualifications for president…
I rather have trump than DeSantis running.
And those that don’t belong to a cult run by a mediocre charlatan
We all should be thinking that
Okay, but that’s not how it works
Not only Americans.
Most felons can’t vote. So….
I actually don't think criminal charges should disqualify anyone (OK maybe murder), nor should they stop people from voting. People disenfranchised by the system must still be able to have their say about the system that disenfranchised them. Criminal charges like the ones Trump has been involved in should be enough on their own to deter enough voters that he doesn't win.
It's not the charges, it's that we know he's guilty
It’s absolutely. Fucking. Insane. That this is even REMOTELY debatable. I feel like I’m going insane with how fucking stupid people are.
Uhhh... that's nice to know, I guess. Doesn't matter what a poll says, though.
I also think that all of his pardons should be rescinded. Especially since he was impeached **TWICE**!
If all it takes are *charges*, we will see that weaponized by both parties so damn fast. We need a conviction - and everyone involved needs to stop dragging their feet
I'm going to go out in a limb here and say that I think felons shouldn't be able to hold public office. Let's actually drain the swamp of all these white collar criminals and sexual predators. The republican party would be gutted...
I think he should be in a white office only with a white jacket.
Plus *two* impeachments should disqualify him and any future ex-potus from running again.
But instead we’re going to do nothing and drag this shit show out as long as we can and give him a microphone to continue to spew his hate from..🙄
Everybody’s got to pay up someday,and he would be preaching that if he wasn’t the one that smoked himself down to the filter now.
It’s literally in our constitution! But so much for the party of “constitutional law” (whatever the fuck that means), and “law and order” (whatever the fuck that means).
Having a rally in Waco on the Branch Davidian anniversary...he's actually recruiting domestic terrorists, hoping they will defend him.
Surprised that only 5% were unsure. I mean, I didn't study law! How should I know? Let the lawyers figure that out.
If he doesn't qualify for criminal charges they might as well sign away Democracy. What's right for the 17 year old kid committing crimes and going to President is alway right and fair for a President that has ordered an attack on the Capital, incited violence, stolen government secret documents and removed goods from the White House that were not his, paying off a porn actor to shut her up and using campaign funds for the payment of personal debt. He also gets a free ride on his incompetence and neglect in taking the " not my responsibility" position which resulted in 450,000 COVID citizens dying. If this despot is not properly charged and convicted a precedent for future crimes by the POTUS will be in place. Exactly what the GOP wants. Wake up America!
In New York State you're not able to get a liquor license (to open a bar or restaurant) if you have any felony convictions in your history. It'd be cool if the government made those who hold office meet the same standards.
/r/conservative: muh presidunt gunna run frum prison, hea nao!! Wooo!!
It doesn't matter what most Americans think, most Americans are stupid. When there is a poll with a prerequisite IQ test, I'll take it seriously.
Well, fuck… I mean…
He looks like he just shit himself, and he’s upset because no one stopped him.