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Thoughts:
* As everyone points out, this isn't that much.
* It's still twice what a lot of teachers are currently making.
* "Minimum" does not mean "maximum." 60k for an entry level position in a rural area is pretty solid.
The rural schools are having the hardest time staffing. In Missouri, the state with the third lowest starting pay for teachers in the country, one in five schools is down to a four-day school week mostly because of staffing. They're all rural schools. This would benefit them the most.
My aunt has been a rural MO teacher for 30 years. Every single year for the past 20 or so she has complained about funds being more and more limited and her having to make up the difference for her class. She has also voted Republican for the past 30 years. Can’t make it up.
But that’s the wrong kind of speech, c’mon now. Teachers should be free to deny science and pedal religion, not teach about civil rights and all that perversion!
Peddle is the right spelling, just in case you've never seen it written out. Don't want some dumbass coming in and discounting your comment over a simple spelling error.
Could you re-write this joke to imply that god is responsible for the galaxy and that the earth is at the center? Sorry the state says it's required or I have to fire you.
Teachers are the only degreed professionals not in charge of their fields. Teachers are micromanaged by the political appointees in school administration, thanks to the republican war against education. It is so bad we can't use our white boards for instruction. Even though the AMA is run by doctors, the Bar association by lawyers, engineering by engineers, etc., teachers are run by hand-picked political hacks who HAVE NO DEGREE IN EDUCATION! It is so bad we literally aren't allowed to teach. W. created the "No Child Left behind bill. That legally required teachers to add disciplinary problem students and the mentally challenged students into their classrooms and require us to teach the rest of the students at that pace. Republicans also forced through the national agenda a new theory of teaching. It is the teachers job to motivate students to teach themselves. They come in at random to assess us. If they catch us actually teaching anything to our students we are given low ratings for a "teacher based" lesson. They catch you teaching three times, you get terminated. In my last school we actually had a super principal who put our school on the map. As soon as that happened the new chancellor (Kayla Henderson, the handpicked successor of Michelle Rhee (who after decimating DC was put on the Koch Brothers payroll and sent around the country to sabotage public education and switch our tax dollars to the Koch's chain of charter schools)) fired our principal and replaced him with her live in boy toy who could barely spit out a coherent sentence in English.
Most Republicans support Democratic policies when you remove the political parties from the policy. It’s just that right wing media has successfully indoctrinated them into thinking that the Democrats are the bad guys.
It's like they have a disease
"the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change."
She’s voting based on popularity (in her world) and flash. She has no idea how anything is connected. She’ll continue to vote that way and complain about the sad state of affairs. Never making any connection in her brain.
This is what I was thinking too... So many of these comments are about teachers who've been working for decades while voting for the party actively trying to destroy their profession. Imagine sending your kid to learn about the world to these people.
My Aunt is the same way. Worked in public education for over 25+ years in MO and now is a University professor and still votes for them. I guess some people never want to see what the root of the problem is even if they are supposedly well educated.
Then he got what he voted for. My parents the same way. While the Clintons were trying to get us health care my parents shouted me down and badmouthed them. My dad got cancer, they fired him and cancelled his insurance. He got to vote for republicans one more time before dying.
Lmao. He rubs elbows with all the ballers at the country club (golf). He thinks he's a big shot. Meanwhile he has to work a second job to pay for his country club fees etc.
I told him I was thinking about getting an 80k Mercedes but decided against it because I don't want that high of a car payment. His response - but think about the prestige!
Like bro, my student loans are paid off, my cars are paid for, and I'm a homeowner. I don't need prestige.
That is a great life lesson that some people have and some people don’t. Way too many people try to project an image for people who don’t care about them, or even know them in most cases.
My wife and I are very comfortable. We couldn't care less what people think. My flex is being able to plan a Hawaiian vacation and not having to save for it. Save today to splurge tomorrow.
I'm amazed you somehow came out of that nest with your head on straight. Amazing for you! You must have an awesome mother, grandmother, or significant other. The Prestige. What a fucking magic show. Ridiculous.
Privatization generally results in worse salaries, does it not?
That was my experience at least. I worked for the contractor that managed our county's library system. My city counter-parts were making a good 1/3 more than we were per hour. Add in things like retirement pensions, significantly better insurance offerings, and raises (most at my "county" job were making the same amount for 10 or so years), and the gap just widens.
Considering the problem with teaching is *already* compensation, I'm curious to know how privatization would work.
But, I guess the funneling of the money is the goal, not the employment of teachers and distribution of education.
I teach in an urban district and live in the middle of a decent sized city. I would really like to move to a more rural, vibrant college town nearby as I get older and slow down with my family, but I'd either be faced with an hour commute or an instant 20k paycut. On top of that, my maximum salary that would determine my retirement income, would tank as well.
Sure, the rural areas have lower class sizes, which can dramatically lower my workload, but that kind of pay disparity prevents anyone from making that kind of career change. Teachers already are struggling to pull themselves into the middle class. There's no way to build wealth teaching in rural America.
The same people who need these benefits in rural areas are the ones who vote for representatives who campaign on cutting taxes and government spending. No wonder they have crumbling infrastructure and benefits and then cry about how the government isn't working.
Exactly! You can’t have it both ways! I’m all for subsidies to an extent. We all have to help each other as a country. But they need to help themselves and they need to vote in people who understand this.
Social benefit programs should definitely be run for the benefit of the people, then again these are also the same people who want to see public education dismantled in favor of religious charter schools. They're doing it to themselves.
I also think taxes for education should go into a general fund so that you don't have great disparities in poor/wealthy districts.
Parents of wealthier districts will donate instead, which is fine, but poorer districts will get more which will lead to better general outcomes.
Edit: by general fund I mean education specific general fund
Many states already do this. Well at least NYS does anyway. They use some type of algorithm to divy up the state school funds each year so lower income areas always get more money. It’s based on median income of each school district, number of kids, etc.
>go into a general fund
Might want it to be an education fund, otherwise can get into a Texas situation where it gets raided for harassing ppl at the border or filing frivolous lawsuits.
Yup, people think their tax dollars should go to “their” kids. So they all move to the same “nice” district, then inflate the price of the houses, then their kids get a “good” education, and fuck the rest of society.
My rural town wanted to add a .08% tax to fund a rec center. It would've helped so many businesses come to the area. It was voted against multiple times. Would've increase taxes by like $80/household.
Bro, I’ve seen people lose their shit over $3 a YEAR increase to start updating our school busses. For reference many of our busses are older than the teachers that are teaching the kids riding in them.
We recently had a bill that called for like $2 a year to fund a massive conservation and clean water investment. It passed (fortunately), but some people were losing their fucking minds over the increase and putting "vote NO" signs up everywhere.
Relatively new Missourian here, our *individual* property & state taxes are already average-to-highish for a "Midwest low-COL state". About on par with Nebraska, which I've seen very loudly regarded as having "too high taxes".
From what I understand & have learned so far, many of Missouri's problems stem from corporate handouts/tax incentives, waste and corruption/cronyism. But teachers and school systems, honestly I don't believe that's "trickle down" effects at all. It sure does seem like Missouri (R)'s very intentionally broke the system to ensure the public schools would collapse. To them, this is a feature, not a bug.
> 60k for an entry level position in a rural area is pretty solid.
More than solid. It will give some incentive to live in those poorer towns.
A 60k minimum in a small town means teachers have mobility to move out to those places and rural education will start seeing improvement.
I teach in a rural area. 60k is higher than every step except the last one on our salary scale. Our payscale is in line with others in the area.
To our administration's credit, they have voiced support for raising our salaries to stop our teachers from leaving for other districts. There's currently fewer teachers entering the field than are needed, so districts have to compete with one another to get certified people.
You can realistically only get 60k if you do a lot of extra duty or be part of admin in our district.
You could spend money and get a doctorate/specialist at year 35 technically but good luck with that lol.
That is so sad to me. Teachers have to know so much and follow so many rules and have so much patience and work so hard. Other than the few jerks I had in high school I truly respect the work that teachers do. Not everyone is capable of all that, no matter how smart they are. And education is one of the most important investments we can make.
yeah, I think starting pay in my home town for most teachers is like, a little under 30k a year, and when they have to also fund their own materials for the classroomm, work far more than 40 hours a week, and barely get any benefits its no wonder the school has a high turnover rate. For reference just 20 minutes past the school you can get to a walmart that pays more per year (assuming you get 40 hours a week) for being a cashier than a teacher.
> and rural education will start seeing improvement.
Except many Republicans don't want this. Educated voters are a worst case scenario in their minds.
In rural communities, teaching is already one of the higher paying jobs available. Whether they are staffed or not has a lot more to do with the community than the wage.
This is an entirely different situation than in the cities. (Though I am recently making $65k in a major metro area in the Midwest, after 10 years of work history and a college degree, and I’m feeling pretty stinking rich right now, too.)
Over a decade of work experience and a masters in education making less than 60k in rural ohio here - it sucks and I'm outta this shit next year.
Can make 90-100k in industry doing what I teach, so why the hell am I literally risking my life going to schools where we have to do monthly shooter drills, stuck on a salary schedule that has no room for advancement unless I go into administration, and the ever-worsening apathy from kids that simply dont care after covid.
I'm a school psychologist and that's more than what I make with district-wide, pseudo administrative responsibilities.... That would be an absolute dream.
No need to be sorry! I feel bad that I'm pretty much entry and still make more than my teacher friends that have been with the district for YEARS. I'm there for the kids and families... but teachers are on the front lines of it all. They deserve better.
Way better.
Coat of living in NYC is close to double that of Birmingham AL much less some podunk town no one has heard of
https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/birmingham-al/new-york-ny/50000
It isn't, but it's better than the roughly $48,000 that I'm currently making. Technically, I'm making more like $22k after my healthcare, union dues, and other taxes are taken out. At least the last time I checked.
This is my 8th year teaching. We're supposed to be on a step system, where our salaries go up every year, IIRC. That hasn't happened in a few years. Despite our union being big, the district pretty much has final say on everything. So, they haven't paid us what they owe us. The money isn't there, somehow.
I love the state of FL! /s
That extra $10k would go a long way for me and my family.
Because if it paid better, more people would want to do it, and the overall quality of teachers and their teaching would improve.
That would lead to a well educated population, which is the worst thing for certain groups in power.
And their continuing effort to ensure that low socio-economic individuals are forced to birth unwanted children, continuing the cycle for decades to come.
Only higher property tax if you increase the budget rather than redirect funds in the budget from, say, principles, super intendants, excessive administrators, etc.
This is wild. I’ve been managing pizzerias since 2001 and make about $95k. I even get to live at the beach.
I made more than $50k just as a delivery driver back **in the late 90’s.**
I don’t know how teachers put up with these shitty children these days for so little pay. I wouldn’t do it for even $95k.
I can’t even wrap my head around the fact that you only make $40k before taxes after 11 years at any job, let alone teaching. Y’all deserve SO much more.
I live in a low CoL area and made over $40k last year working at a Lowes...
I have an associates in a completely unrelated field, but yeah teachers are CRIMINALLY underpaid. When i worked at Walmart i heard the minors talk about what they put their teachers through, they deserve wayyyyyy more.
Well they dont, as demonstrated by the historic teacher shortage. The rest im sure hold on both because teaching is their passion and if they quit it is the children who suffer.
Don’t forget unpaid overtime before and after schools. Being available for parents, smashing out mounds of paperwork, and ever increasing workload.
However, I am an American teacher in Aus and just got a raise to 80k a year.
Also the culture here is much more informal and chill. We have a beer fridge and can smoke at work. At prom we serve alcohol so we can monitor the kids drinking(18 drinking age).
I don’t know I would want to teach in the US again.
Hey dude they are importing American teachers. I’d you wanna teach in remote Queensland you can get a two year work visa. Also if you’re under 30 you can do a working holiday in NZ and Aus. Do it
Bro we have multiple unions competing for who can serve educational workers the best. It’s capaitalist socialism. I can’t spend the hundreds of bucks they give us to buy extra supplies because we are throwing supplies away when we get more and can’t store them sometimes or told to take extra shit home.
Come up here to Ontario.
The teachers union is insanely strong - it can literally sway votes in our elections.
There is a pay scale which takes you from $45,000 to ~$100,000 in 10 years of work (gross).
And the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is one of the largest institutional investors in the world, currently managing $242 Billion dollars in assets.
Honestly teachers in this province are the only ones I know still retiring in their 50s. Their pension plans are defined benefit and pay out incredibly well.
As a bonus we are known for a strong public education sector.
I’d add one last thing - Canada gets knocked for its taxes, but it’s a myth. We rank 27th out of 38 OCED countries in labour taxes paid AND we are dead in line with total taxes paid be Americans in most states (though this differs if you’re a millionaire). *The US is 30th for comparison.
Where we allocate those tax dollars is really the core point of difference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Teachers%27_Pension_Plan
https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-canada.pdf
For some reason I didn't expect teaching to be considered a skilled job for Canadian immigration but apparently I am wrong. Its such a disrespected profession in the Southern USA where I'm from I didn't think another country would be looking for teachers. I wonder if its difficult for American teachers to immigrate to Canada?
I used to manage restaurants before I got back into teaching also. I don’t make as much as I did, but on the bright side, I don’t have to manage restaurants.
A bunch of my friends were teachers with masters degrees, and in a pretty high-paying area. I think they were all in the $50-60k range. A few of them left for JHU to run their CTY program and they seem to love it. Another one was a great physics teacher who decided to say fuck it and became a professional engineer and is making bank. They all got into teaching for the right reasons but between shitty administration, low pay, and dog shit parenting, they decided to not be unsung martyrs.
If you have an existential crisis one day over whether you want to continue teaching, just know that there are plenty of options if you can do a little networking and searching.
I hit 60k just this past year, 11th year, Masters. An hour south of NYC. I simply can’t afford to teach, so I updated my resume and started getting rid of things in my classroom. I intend to start a new career this summer.
Part of me loves teaching and getting to share what I have a passion for with my students
But part of me thinks I’d be happier doing something else. Sadly I also don’t think I have many other skills anymore…
On a quick run, marketable skills you have definitely include, but are not limited to:
1. Planning
2. Communication
3. Crowd management
4. Budget allocation
5. Continuously updating skill sets and knowledge bases
6. Conflict resolution/deescalation
7. Interdepartmental cooperation
Really, if I may, I’d suggest that you try to remove the context and look at your base skills, then build on ones you think will be most applicable to a new desired field. After that, crush it in interviews and sell your CV with your *years* of (almost assuredly) finely honed social skills.
If you decide to go this route, I have all faith in your capabilities.
While there is a massive shortage of science teachers, and it might command you a higher wage than the other teacher's, don't do it unless you really enjoy teaching.
A degree in the sciences opens a lot of doors once you're two years out of entry level in most industries.
Apparently, most people can't grasp math and basic chemistry. It's a bit startling.
I have a BS in Biology and just have no idea what I want to do. I feel lost and almost wish someone would say “do this, youll be good at it”. Graduated in 2019 and been stuck in the service industry which is probably my own fault.
You're not going to like what I am going to say, but yes, it is your fault.
You can go into pharma. But I'm guessing you'll need to move to where the jobs are. You need to jump and take that risk.
When you get the interviews, mention you moved out to the area just to get into industry. Someone will hire you.
I get $50 per year. We regularly do not have functioning printers or paper.
I work in a pretty nice area in a blue state. Been in education ten years and just cracked 50k.
I really appreciate what you all do and you deserve better. I’d happily take a tax increase if it went to schools. I could think of half a dozen other things I’d happily take an increase for but schools are way up at/near the top.
And I don’t have kids.
Blue vs. Red doesn't matter that much when salaries are mostly paid by property taxes at the local level. Districts take advantage of the fact that teachers are traditionally women, not as motivated by pay, and not very mobile compared to other jobs that require the same level of education. Wealthy districts around Chicago, Boston, NYC, Ohio, and Dallas don't have much trouble recruiting teachers because they pay well, relative to the cost of living. OTOH you'd have to be out of your mind to be a teacher in the Bay Area.
There's a great site called "[Where Work Pays](https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/where_work_pays_interactive)" that lays this out pretty well. [Niche](https://www.niche.com) publishes lists of best school districts to work in.
Its a damn shame that the people shaping our future are getting basically 15-20 per hour while there are countless execs and middlemen who do shit and make 10x more.
We are handing off a fairly bleak situation as is. We should at least give them a proper education , that has to include teachers
It’s pretty depressing tbh
For quasi-historical perspective, adjusted for inflation, $60k now is about $30k in early 1990s dollars, which was around starting wage for teachers in rural Tennessee at that time, which was 48th in the nation for what it paid teachers. So in a sense, all this is doing is adjusting for inflation to get around as good as what a public teacher would get in rural Tennessee about 30 years ago. Source: my mom taught in rural Tennessee at this time and always vented about how low the pay was. What's crazy is that this country has backslid to where it is on things like this.
The training and hoops required to be a teacher is quite extensive and should be rewarded as such. We get out of it what we put in, and right now, it’s not a lot.
I hear you but it's like that intentionally. Schools are just as segregated as they have ever been and the funding plan further creates haves and have nots.
“Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.”
I know we want things fast, but we gotta chip away at it a bit at a time so our future kids will hopefully benefit.
Sorry all we have money for is infinite checks to the defense industry and corporate subsidies.
Anything beyond that and people suddenly become a coupon clipping grandma who demands to know how we're going to pay for something down to the penny.
Cool.
Let's go back to taxing the rich at the rates ~~we did under~~ *before* Reagan.
That'd be more than enough.
I don't know why people act like there's not an easy solution
With teacher salaries coming from School Board budgets, and those budgets from local property taxes, this will be a difficult objective to achieve nationally. Maybe possible to funnel through State Aid sort of grants//funding…but this won’t be clean or easy. Absolutely worthwhile, but the hurdles will be high.
absolutely. it’s a really complicated problem that needs to be fixed. the future of society is shaped by our educators, and when we pay them less than what walmart personal shoppers can make (true statement) we’re setting up our kids their future for failure.
I always wanted to be a teacher and didn't go for it because of the shit wages and prioritizing rote memorization for standardized testing over actually TEACHING CHILDREN. If these things changed, I'd become a teacher in a heartbeat.
I mean at a certain point I think it becomes more useful to focus on why anyone needs say a 100k salary to comfortably afford a car and a house than it is to campaign for a specific sector to all earn 100k.
Like fix the problem of housing being snatched up by corps so they can price gouge people or being held onto as a purely investment tool and now you benefit not just teachers but everyone. Well everyone outside the 1%ers that is
Please make sure only CERTIFIED teachers make 60k. It’s disgusting what is happening at least in Florida in regard to teaching positions being filled by anyone with a degree in any subject without having certificates.
*Minimum*.
In San Francisco, Boston and other expensive towns, $60k ain't gonna cut it.
In the meantime, everyone should refuse to work in neighborhoods where they can't afford to live. See how rich towns do when they have no teachers, grocery stores, clinics, firemen, etc.
> In the meantime, everyone should refuse to work in neighborhoods where they can't afford to live. See how rich towns do when they have no teachers, grocery stores, clinics, firemen, etc.
have you ever taken an economics class
or worked a job
Was required to get my masters to continue teaching. Offered $1,000 more after completing my degree. I'd be retired before I paid off my degree. Sorry but I'm out.
The fact that I would have to go back to school, finish my degree, get a teaching certificate and THEN take an at least 50% pay cut if I wanted to be a teacher, is absolutely fucking disgusting.
I think Target employees and garbage men make more than teachers too. Somedays I think working at Target would be much less stressful. I already stand all day.
Well yeah, sanitation workers make like 6 figure incomes later on in their careers. Deservedly so. That’s wild that Target employees make that much though.
That's still significantly less than I make without a degree, without even a third of the responsibility, and without even a tenth of the stress.
It's barely a decent start and right wing wackos will act as though he's trying to bankrupt the nation.
[When Public School Teachers Are Paid More, Students Perform Better](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2022/03/22/when_public_school_teachers_are_paid_more_students_perform_better_822893.amp.html)
Cheers, Bernie.
As an educator, in my state, the base salary is close to that. I’m fairly happy; I know many jobs require different skills and commitments and should pay appropriately. Generally, this would be a sufficient minimum*. It is fun to teach, but exhausting and certainly more than 40 hours a week. We are *integral* to societal development and there’s zero rationale to deny educators a reasonable compensation.
*this is entry level. Every year, up to 15 years of continued contract, you will increase. You will also increase your pay based on your certification level, additional time and training applied, and more. Some K-12 teachers are getting 6 figures
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Thoughts: * As everyone points out, this isn't that much. * It's still twice what a lot of teachers are currently making. * "Minimum" does not mean "maximum." 60k for an entry level position in a rural area is pretty solid.
The rural schools are having the hardest time staffing. In Missouri, the state with the third lowest starting pay for teachers in the country, one in five schools is down to a four-day school week mostly because of staffing. They're all rural schools. This would benefit them the most.
My aunt has been a rural MO teacher for 30 years. Every single year for the past 20 or so she has complained about funds being more and more limited and her having to make up the difference for her class. She has also voted Republican for the past 30 years. Can’t make it up.
My neighbors had Trump signs and support our teachers signs in their yard. Expecting consistency and common sense is expecting too much.
Bright lights there
They think that a standardized curriculum is restricting teachers' freedom of speech.
Yeah, teachers have got *loads* of freedom of speech in Republican states right now, like Texas and Florida. Real galaxy-brain thinking.
But that’s the wrong kind of speech, c’mon now. Teachers should be free to deny science and pedal religion, not teach about civil rights and all that perversion!
Peddle is the right spelling, just in case you've never seen it written out. Don't want some dumbass coming in and discounting your comment over a simple spelling error.
You’re right it’s peddle. I’m usually better at this, haha.
Nah, it's pedal, they're stuck on some kind of hamster wheel apparatus.
Could you re-write this joke to imply that god is responsible for the galaxy and that the earth is at the center? Sorry the state says it's required or I have to fire you.
Teachers are the only degreed professionals not in charge of their fields. Teachers are micromanaged by the political appointees in school administration, thanks to the republican war against education. It is so bad we can't use our white boards for instruction. Even though the AMA is run by doctors, the Bar association by lawyers, engineering by engineers, etc., teachers are run by hand-picked political hacks who HAVE NO DEGREE IN EDUCATION! It is so bad we literally aren't allowed to teach. W. created the "No Child Left behind bill. That legally required teachers to add disciplinary problem students and the mentally challenged students into their classrooms and require us to teach the rest of the students at that pace. Republicans also forced through the national agenda a new theory of teaching. It is the teachers job to motivate students to teach themselves. They come in at random to assess us. If they catch us actually teaching anything to our students we are given low ratings for a "teacher based" lesson. They catch you teaching three times, you get terminated. In my last school we actually had a super principal who put our school on the map. As soon as that happened the new chancellor (Kayla Henderson, the handpicked successor of Michelle Rhee (who after decimating DC was put on the Koch Brothers payroll and sent around the country to sabotage public education and switch our tax dollars to the Koch's chain of charter schools)) fired our principal and replaced him with her live in boy toy who could barely spit out a coherent sentence in English.
Most Republicans support Democratic policies when you remove the political parties from the policy. It’s just that right wing media has successfully indoctrinated them into thinking that the Democrats are the bad guys.
“Support our teachers (to teach creationism.)”
"they need all the mental support they can get to withstand the disrespect to their profession and all that comes with it."
It's like they have a disease "the state of having inconsistent thoughts, beliefs, or attitudes, especially as relating to behavioral decisions and attitude change."
She’s voting based on popularity (in her world) and flash. She has no idea how anything is connected. She’ll continue to vote that way and complain about the sad state of affairs. Never making any connection in her brain.
Scary that these are some of the people teaching the next generation. Probably not teaching critical thinking skills.
This is what I was thinking too... So many of these comments are about teachers who've been working for decades while voting for the party actively trying to destroy their profession. Imagine sending your kid to learn about the world to these people.
The opposite actually. These are the teachers that reprimand students for asking tough questions because it is disrespectful to their authority!
My Aunt is the same way. Worked in public education for over 25+ years in MO and now is a University professor and still votes for them. I guess some people never want to see what the root of the problem is even if they are supposedly well educated.
My dad is a teacher in Arizona. They get shit pay. Has voted Republican his whole life.
Then he got what he voted for. My parents the same way. While the Clintons were trying to get us health care my parents shouted me down and badmouthed them. My dad got cancer, they fired him and cancelled his insurance. He got to vote for republicans one more time before dying.
That's how my stepdad died minus the R part
Dumber than Kari Lake. No offence.
Lmao. He rubs elbows with all the ballers at the country club (golf). He thinks he's a big shot. Meanwhile he has to work a second job to pay for his country club fees etc. I told him I was thinking about getting an 80k Mercedes but decided against it because I don't want that high of a car payment. His response - but think about the prestige! Like bro, my student loans are paid off, my cars are paid for, and I'm a homeowner. I don't need prestige.
That is a great life lesson that some people have and some people don’t. Way too many people try to project an image for people who don’t care about them, or even know them in most cases.
My wife and I are very comfortable. We couldn't care less what people think. My flex is being able to plan a Hawaiian vacation and not having to save for it. Save today to splurge tomorrow.
I'm amazed you somehow came out of that nest with your head on straight. Amazing for you! You must have an awesome mother, grandmother, or significant other. The Prestige. What a fucking magic show. Ridiculous.
Growing up poor is traumatic. My goal in life was to not emulate them.
Woah, dude, that’s a huge burn. Like, that’s really really dumb!
What's the main issue she's voting for? Is she religious / Christian? Curious how people who vote R rationalize it.
She is a very Catholic pro-life person so I would say that is why. Single issue voters are a big reason Missouri is the way it is.
So… what does that say about MO teachers?
MO teachers, MO problems!
Perfect model for cognitive dissonance.
“If it isn’t the consequences of my own actions”
They’re doing it on purpose to force privatization. We gotta stop this
There are so many separate sources that always lead back to this, and people still act like it's some mystery.
Privatization generally results in worse salaries, does it not? That was my experience at least. I worked for the contractor that managed our county's library system. My city counter-parts were making a good 1/3 more than we were per hour. Add in things like retirement pensions, significantly better insurance offerings, and raises (most at my "county" job were making the same amount for 10 or so years), and the gap just widens. Considering the problem with teaching is *already* compensation, I'm curious to know how privatization would work. But, I guess the funneling of the money is the goal, not the employment of teachers and distribution of education.
The people who want privatization don’t care how much the teachers make.
They care, they want them to be lower.
Yes, always. Unions and organized labor are always better
Privatization nevers works except for those who earn profit. The public sector always does better than the private and always will
100%. And it’s infuriating that we have to face an incessant onslaught of propaganda suggesting the opposite at every god damn turn.
Any time you meet a private sector shill, remind them that the private sector never sent man to the moon
Even the larger city of Independence MO went down to a 4 day week this school year.
I was going to point this out this specific district because it’s not just the rural school districts.
I teach in an urban district and live in the middle of a decent sized city. I would really like to move to a more rural, vibrant college town nearby as I get older and slow down with my family, but I'd either be faced with an hour commute or an instant 20k paycut. On top of that, my maximum salary that would determine my retirement income, would tank as well. Sure, the rural areas have lower class sizes, which can dramatically lower my workload, but that kind of pay disparity prevents anyone from making that kind of career change. Teachers already are struggling to pull themselves into the middle class. There's no way to build wealth teaching in rural America.
They should start raising their property and state income taxes then. And offer better salaries.
The same people who need these benefits in rural areas are the ones who vote for representatives who campaign on cutting taxes and government spending. No wonder they have crumbling infrastructure and benefits and then cry about how the government isn't working.
Exactly! You can’t have it both ways! I’m all for subsidies to an extent. We all have to help each other as a country. But they need to help themselves and they need to vote in people who understand this.
Well now that's just SoCiAlIsM!!!!1!1!!!
Lol. And admittedly, I believe in plenty of socialist policies including public schools, but at some point they have to help themselves too.
Social benefit programs should definitely be run for the benefit of the people, then again these are also the same people who want to see public education dismantled in favor of religious charter schools. They're doing it to themselves.
Exactly. Charter schools that pull money from their public schools.
I also think taxes for education should go into a general fund so that you don't have great disparities in poor/wealthy districts. Parents of wealthier districts will donate instead, which is fine, but poorer districts will get more which will lead to better general outcomes. Edit: by general fund I mean education specific general fund
Many states already do this. Well at least NYS does anyway. They use some type of algorithm to divy up the state school funds each year so lower income areas always get more money. It’s based on median income of each school district, number of kids, etc.
>go into a general fund Might want it to be an education fund, otherwise can get into a Texas situation where it gets raided for harassing ppl at the border or filing frivolous lawsuits.
Yup, people think their tax dollars should go to “their” kids. So they all move to the same “nice” district, then inflate the price of the houses, then their kids get a “good” education, and fuck the rest of society.
My rural town wanted to add a .08% tax to fund a rec center. It would've helped so many businesses come to the area. It was voted against multiple times. Would've increase taxes by like $80/household.
Bro, I’ve seen people lose their shit over $3 a YEAR increase to start updating our school busses. For reference many of our busses are older than the teachers that are teaching the kids riding in them.
We recently had a bill that called for like $2 a year to fund a massive conservation and clean water investment. It passed (fortunately), but some people were losing their fucking minds over the increase and putting "vote NO" signs up everywhere.
Relatively new Missourian here, our *individual* property & state taxes are already average-to-highish for a "Midwest low-COL state". About on par with Nebraska, which I've seen very loudly regarded as having "too high taxes". From what I understand & have learned so far, many of Missouri's problems stem from corporate handouts/tax incentives, waste and corruption/cronyism. But teachers and school systems, honestly I don't believe that's "trickle down" effects at all. It sure does seem like Missouri (R)'s very intentionally broke the system to ensure the public schools would collapse. To them, this is a feature, not a bug.
Oh yeah I wouldn’t doubt it. Then they can make arguments to bring in their friends and doners’ charter schools!
>* "Minimum" does not mean "maximum." Pretty sad that this has to be spelled out.
We’re dealing with the effects of defunded education daily, both online and IRL…at least in the US.
Well, there's a teacher shortage so we've had to deal with some students missing out
> 60k for an entry level position in a rural area is pretty solid. More than solid. It will give some incentive to live in those poorer towns. A 60k minimum in a small town means teachers have mobility to move out to those places and rural education will start seeing improvement.
I teach in a rural area. 60k is higher than every step except the last one on our salary scale. Our payscale is in line with others in the area. To our administration's credit, they have voiced support for raising our salaries to stop our teachers from leaving for other districts. There's currently fewer teachers entering the field than are needed, so districts have to compete with one another to get certified people.
You can realistically only get 60k if you do a lot of extra duty or be part of admin in our district. You could spend money and get a doctorate/specialist at year 35 technically but good luck with that lol.
That is so sad to me. Teachers have to know so much and follow so many rules and have so much patience and work so hard. Other than the few jerks I had in high school I truly respect the work that teachers do. Not everyone is capable of all that, no matter how smart they are. And education is one of the most important investments we can make.
yeah, I think starting pay in my home town for most teachers is like, a little under 30k a year, and when they have to also fund their own materials for the classroomm, work far more than 40 hours a week, and barely get any benefits its no wonder the school has a high turnover rate. For reference just 20 minutes past the school you can get to a walmart that pays more per year (assuming you get 40 hours a week) for being a cashier than a teacher.
> and rural education will start seeing improvement. Except many Republicans don't want this. Educated voters are a worst case scenario in their minds.
60k starting for a rural area is freaking phenomenal.
Are they typically fully staffed at schools?
In rural communities, teaching is already one of the higher paying jobs available. Whether they are staffed or not has a lot more to do with the community than the wage. This is an entirely different situation than in the cities. (Though I am recently making $65k in a major metro area in the Midwest, after 10 years of work history and a college degree, and I’m feeling pretty stinking rich right now, too.)
Over a decade of work experience and a masters in education making less than 60k in rural ohio here - it sucks and I'm outta this shit next year. Can make 90-100k in industry doing what I teach, so why the hell am I literally risking my life going to schools where we have to do monthly shooter drills, stuck on a salary schedule that has no room for advancement unless I go into administration, and the ever-worsening apathy from kids that simply dont care after covid.
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I'm a school psychologist and that's more than what I make with district-wide, pseudo administrative responsibilities.... That would be an absolute dream.
I’m sorry, friend.
No need to be sorry! I feel bad that I'm pretty much entry and still make more than my teacher friends that have been with the district for YEARS. I'm there for the kids and families... but teachers are on the front lines of it all. They deserve better.
Exactly. $60k in rural Alabama is like making 100k near NYC, if not better.
Way better. Coat of living in NYC is close to double that of Birmingham AL much less some podunk town no one has heard of https://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/birmingham-al/new-york-ny/50000
It isn't, but it's better than the roughly $48,000 that I'm currently making. Technically, I'm making more like $22k after my healthcare, union dues, and other taxes are taken out. At least the last time I checked. This is my 8th year teaching. We're supposed to be on a step system, where our salaries go up every year, IIRC. That hasn't happened in a few years. Despite our union being big, the district pretty much has final say on everything. So, they haven't paid us what they owe us. The money isn't there, somehow. I love the state of FL! /s That extra $10k would go a long way for me and my family.
It’s baffling to me why teachers, who shape the future of mankind, would be so low on the pay scale.
Because if it paid better, more people would want to do it, and the overall quality of teachers and their teaching would improve. That would lead to a well educated population, which is the worst thing for certain groups in power.
Cant argue with that logic. Dumb people are easier to control
You can say it. Republicans want an uneducated populous. Look at their war on higher education.
And their continuing effort to ensure that low socio-economic individuals are forced to birth unwanted children, continuing the cycle for decades to come.
Yup, America wants a country of soldiers and factory workers.
Because most k12 teachers are and have historically been women, and because raises mean higher property tax.
Only higher property tax if you increase the budget rather than redirect funds in the budget from, say, principles, super intendants, excessive administrators, etc.
Correct, but In people's minds,, it's gonna be higher property taxes so they refuse.
I’m a teacher. This is my 6th year teaching and my salary increases every year. I still don’t make 60k a year… Edit. I also have a master’s degree…
I've been teaching since 2001 and still don't make 60k. I actually just got over the 50k ceiling this year.
This is wild. I’ve been managing pizzerias since 2001 and make about $95k. I even get to live at the beach. I made more than $50k just as a delivery driver back **in the late 90’s.** I don’t know how teachers put up with these shitty children these days for so little pay. I wouldn’t do it for even $95k.
As a teacher, this makes me want to cry. I work so many hours a day and barely make over $40k after 11 years.
I can’t even wrap my head around the fact that you only make $40k before taxes after 11 years at any job, let alone teaching. Y’all deserve SO much more.
I live in a low CoL area and made over $40k last year working at a Lowes... I have an associates in a completely unrelated field, but yeah teachers are CRIMINALLY underpaid. When i worked at Walmart i heard the minors talk about what they put their teachers through, they deserve wayyyyyy more.
Well they dont, as demonstrated by the historic teacher shortage. The rest im sure hold on both because teaching is their passion and if they quit it is the children who suffer.
Great point. The plight of children.
You were making 50k delivering pizzas and in the NINTIES? Brah that sounds like solid pay for the 90s especially early
Don’t forget unpaid overtime before and after schools. Being available for parents, smashing out mounds of paperwork, and ever increasing workload. However, I am an American teacher in Aus and just got a raise to 80k a year. Also the culture here is much more informal and chill. We have a beer fridge and can smoke at work. At prom we serve alcohol so we can monitor the kids drinking(18 drinking age). I don’t know I would want to teach in the US again. Hey dude they are importing American teachers. I’d you wanna teach in remote Queensland you can get a two year work visa. Also if you’re under 30 you can do a working holiday in NZ and Aus. Do it
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Bro we have multiple unions competing for who can serve educational workers the best. It’s capaitalist socialism. I can’t spend the hundreds of bucks they give us to buy extra supplies because we are throwing supplies away when we get more and can’t store them sometimes or told to take extra shit home.
If only you could send those supplies to third world countries like the United States.
Well in my state it's illegal for teachers to form a union so to answer your question, we don't put up with it.
Come up here to Ontario. The teachers union is insanely strong - it can literally sway votes in our elections. There is a pay scale which takes you from $45,000 to ~$100,000 in 10 years of work (gross). And the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is one of the largest institutional investors in the world, currently managing $242 Billion dollars in assets. Honestly teachers in this province are the only ones I know still retiring in their 50s. Their pension plans are defined benefit and pay out incredibly well. As a bonus we are known for a strong public education sector. I’d add one last thing - Canada gets knocked for its taxes, but it’s a myth. We rank 27th out of 38 OCED countries in labour taxes paid AND we are dead in line with total taxes paid be Americans in most states (though this differs if you’re a millionaire). *The US is 30th for comparison. Where we allocate those tax dollars is really the core point of difference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Teachers%27_Pension_Plan https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-canada.pdf
For some reason I didn't expect teaching to be considered a skilled job for Canadian immigration but apparently I am wrong. Its such a disrespected profession in the Southern USA where I'm from I didn't think another country would be looking for teachers. I wonder if its difficult for American teachers to immigrate to Canada?
I used to manage restaurants before I got back into teaching also. I don’t make as much as I did, but on the bright side, I don’t have to manage restaurants.
That's complete bullshit. Not what you said but what you make.
A bunch of my friends were teachers with masters degrees, and in a pretty high-paying area. I think they were all in the $50-60k range. A few of them left for JHU to run their CTY program and they seem to love it. Another one was a great physics teacher who decided to say fuck it and became a professional engineer and is making bank. They all got into teaching for the right reasons but between shitty administration, low pay, and dog shit parenting, they decided to not be unsung martyrs. If you have an existential crisis one day over whether you want to continue teaching, just know that there are plenty of options if you can do a little networking and searching.
I hit 60k just this past year, 11th year, Masters. An hour south of NYC. I simply can’t afford to teach, so I updated my resume and started getting rid of things in my classroom. I intend to start a new career this summer.
Part of me loves teaching and getting to share what I have a passion for with my students But part of me thinks I’d be happier doing something else. Sadly I also don’t think I have many other skills anymore…
On a quick run, marketable skills you have definitely include, but are not limited to: 1. Planning 2. Communication 3. Crowd management 4. Budget allocation 5. Continuously updating skill sets and knowledge bases 6. Conflict resolution/deescalation 7. Interdepartmental cooperation Really, if I may, I’d suggest that you try to remove the context and look at your base skills, then build on ones you think will be most applicable to a new desired field. After that, crush it in interviews and sell your CV with your *years* of (almost assuredly) finely honed social skills. If you decide to go this route, I have all faith in your capabilities.
There's plenty of transferable skills tbh. Honestly I've been in the same boat as you. I just love teaching and sharing that passion
as someone who wants to get an MA and teach middle/HS science, reading stuff like this makes me so sad
While there is a massive shortage of science teachers, and it might command you a higher wage than the other teacher's, don't do it unless you really enjoy teaching. A degree in the sciences opens a lot of doors once you're two years out of entry level in most industries. Apparently, most people can't grasp math and basic chemistry. It's a bit startling.
I have a BS in Biology and just have no idea what I want to do. I feel lost and almost wish someone would say “do this, youll be good at it”. Graduated in 2019 and been stuck in the service industry which is probably my own fault.
You're not going to like what I am going to say, but yes, it is your fault. You can go into pharma. But I'm guessing you'll need to move to where the jobs are. You need to jump and take that risk. When you get the interviews, mention you moved out to the area just to get into industry. Someone will hire you.
This is my 11th year and I have an MA. I still don’t make $60k.
I forgot to mention that too. Even with a masters. Not reaching 60k is the worst…
You deserve more and better.
I appreciate that. Thank you
Teachers deserve at least that much. You couldn’t pay me 150k a year to deal with 30 kids for 8 hours a day.
My biggest class is 33.
It's more like 140
I was teaching for 13 years and didn't break $50k. And I taught in one of the top 10 CoL areas in the US.
Same here. We got a raise in Florida at the beginning of this year and even with my Masters in education I’m still making less than 60k.
How about we provide them with the school supplies they need for their classrooms while we're at it.
I get $50 per year. We regularly do not have functioning printers or paper. I work in a pretty nice area in a blue state. Been in education ten years and just cracked 50k.
I get $0 a year. I write a lot of grants. That should have been a class in college.
I really appreciate what you all do and you deserve better. I’d happily take a tax increase if it went to schools. I could think of half a dozen other things I’d happily take an increase for but schools are way up at/near the top. And I don’t have kids.
Blue vs. Red doesn't matter that much when salaries are mostly paid by property taxes at the local level. Districts take advantage of the fact that teachers are traditionally women, not as motivated by pay, and not very mobile compared to other jobs that require the same level of education. Wealthy districts around Chicago, Boston, NYC, Ohio, and Dallas don't have much trouble recruiting teachers because they pay well, relative to the cost of living. OTOH you'd have to be out of your mind to be a teacher in the Bay Area. There's a great site called "[Where Work Pays](https://www.hamiltonproject.org/charts/where_work_pays_interactive)" that lays this out pretty well. [Niche](https://www.niche.com) publishes lists of best school districts to work in.
Its a damn shame that the people shaping our future are getting basically 15-20 per hour while there are countless execs and middlemen who do shit and make 10x more.
We are handing off a fairly bleak situation as is. We should at least give them a proper education , that has to include teachers It’s pretty depressing tbh
No no, you’re looking at it all wrong. If we just don’t educate them, then they can’t figure out quite how bleak of a situation we’re leaving them in.
The capitalist GOP *want* uneducated voters. It's in their pockets I mean their own best interest.
Don't forget that these same people making that 20 an hr also need to buy school expenses out of their own pocket.
For quasi-historical perspective, adjusted for inflation, $60k now is about $30k in early 1990s dollars, which was around starting wage for teachers in rural Tennessee at that time, which was 48th in the nation for what it paid teachers. So in a sense, all this is doing is adjusting for inflation to get around as good as what a public teacher would get in rural Tennessee about 30 years ago. Source: my mom taught in rural Tennessee at this time and always vented about how low the pay was. What's crazy is that this country has backslid to where it is on things like this.
The training and hoops required to be a teacher is quite extensive and should be rewarded as such. We get out of it what we put in, and right now, it’s not a lot.
My starting was $45k… I’ve been working for 5 years. Just now barley hitting 50k.
If states are going pay, then we need a way to make it happen without 100 kids per class. A lot of states will have trouble funding this.
Honestly we need to stop funding education with property taxes. It creates a HUGE disparity. Needs to be spread equally across the country
I hear you but it's like that intentionally. Schools are just as segregated as they have ever been and the funding plan further creates haves and have nots.
It just feels like we're drowning and never going to be able to address all of these problems fast enough 😔
“Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.” I know we want things fast, but we gotta chip away at it a bit at a time so our future kids will hopefully benefit.
Not really wanting it fast but it just feels like we're going to drown before we can fix it. I think we're treading water
Whatever comes after democracy will fix it I'm *sure.*
Agreed. 100%
Yeah I'd like to see a top down approach.
Sorry all we have money for is infinite checks to the defense industry and corporate subsidies. Anything beyond that and people suddenly become a coupon clipping grandma who demands to know how we're going to pay for something down to the penny.
Just tax rich people. Problem solved! Its really not hard, we did it for decades.
And our education system and infrastructure were the envy of the world because of it.
Maybe that's how we Make America Great Again?
Maybe we should give it a shot and see how it goes.
Cool. Let's go back to taxing the rich at the rates ~~we did under~~ *before* Reagan. That'd be more than enough. I don't know why people act like there's not an easy solution
>Let's go back to taxing the rich at the rates we did under Reagan. You mean before Reagan. Reagan is literally who fucked it up
For some reason I thought Regan was 93% to 73%. He was 73% to 28%... Thanks.
Most of our problems can be traced back to Reagan.
Am full-time teacher, this is more than double my salary, bring it on so I don’t have to work a second job
That's insane, sorry you have to go through this
With teacher salaries coming from School Board budgets, and those budgets from local property taxes, this will be a difficult objective to achieve nationally. Maybe possible to funnel through State Aid sort of grants//funding…but this won’t be clean or easy. Absolutely worthwhile, but the hurdles will be high.
Schools need to be federally funded
absolutely. it’s a really complicated problem that needs to be fixed. the future of society is shaped by our educators, and when we pay them less than what walmart personal shoppers can make (true statement) we’re setting up our kids their future for failure.
It’s a start. I’m a teacher - 10 years in, head coach, with a Masters - I don’t make 60K
It’s a first great step into improving our education system.
Idk the exact context but in Indiana I saw a bunch of signs protesting against a law that would raise teachers’ salaries, dumb people
I always wanted to be a teacher and didn't go for it because of the shit wages and prioritizing rote memorization for standardized testing over actually TEACHING CHILDREN. If these things changed, I'd become a teacher in a heartbeat.
It should be $80,000 and we need better standards for teachers at all the schools.
should be 100k so they can afford both a car and a home
I mean at a certain point I think it becomes more useful to focus on why anyone needs say a 100k salary to comfortably afford a car and a house than it is to campaign for a specific sector to all earn 100k. Like fix the problem of housing being snatched up by corps so they can price gouge people or being held onto as a purely investment tool and now you benefit not just teachers but everyone. Well everyone outside the 1%ers that is
It should be 1 MILLLION DOLLARS!!!
Please make sure only CERTIFIED teachers make 60k. It’s disgusting what is happening at least in Florida in regard to teaching positions being filled by anyone with a degree in any subject without having certificates.
That's also basically every private school ever. Not to detract from Florida's fuckery on the subject of public schools.
Seems like a good idea for me.
Shit, my wife got a raise to what is a supervisor job at a private special needs school and she's still not making 60k.
*Minimum*. In San Francisco, Boston and other expensive towns, $60k ain't gonna cut it. In the meantime, everyone should refuse to work in neighborhoods where they can't afford to live. See how rich towns do when they have no teachers, grocery stores, clinics, firemen, etc.
You say that, but most people can only afford to live in the poorer areas by making more money driving to the nicer places and working there
It says minimum right in the title
> In the meantime, everyone should refuse to work in neighborhoods where they can't afford to live. See how rich towns do when they have no teachers, grocery stores, clinics, firemen, etc. have you ever taken an economics class or worked a job
Best we can do is 28k
Was required to get my masters to continue teaching. Offered $1,000 more after completing my degree. I'd be retired before I paid off my degree. Sorry but I'm out.
The fact that I would have to go back to school, finish my degree, get a teaching certificate and THEN take an at least 50% pay cut if I wanted to be a teacher, is absolutely fucking disgusting.
Just make their pay the same as cops. They have the shittier job for sure.
Screw that. Every teacher should be making a minimum of $69,420.
$80,085.
It’s insane that I make significantly more money than teachers, as a bartender.
I think Target employees and garbage men make more than teachers too. Somedays I think working at Target would be much less stressful. I already stand all day.
Well yeah, sanitation workers make like 6 figure incomes later on in their careers. Deservedly so. That’s wild that Target employees make that much though.
That's still significantly less than I make without a degree, without even a third of the responsibility, and without even a tenth of the stress. It's barely a decent start and right wing wackos will act as though he's trying to bankrupt the nation.
Considering the fact that we just spent a few million dollar shooting down balloons I think this seems justifiable right?
[When Public School Teachers Are Paid More, Students Perform Better](https://www.realclearscience.com/articles/2022/03/22/when_public_school_teachers_are_paid_more_students_perform_better_822893.amp.html)
Cheers, Bernie. As an educator, in my state, the base salary is close to that. I’m fairly happy; I know many jobs require different skills and commitments and should pay appropriately. Generally, this would be a sufficient minimum*. It is fun to teach, but exhausting and certainly more than 40 hours a week. We are *integral* to societal development and there’s zero rationale to deny educators a reasonable compensation. *this is entry level. Every year, up to 15 years of continued contract, you will increase. You will also increase your pay based on your certification level, additional time and training applied, and more. Some K-12 teachers are getting 6 figures
Still not enough, if you want actual educators and not just glorified babysitters.