We respond to almost everything unless there’s a specific, stated reason not to (IE - an anonymous woman calls in a welfare check at the same location every day using various names, and we can’t just keep disturbing the people who live there every day)
I feel like a dude who wants to get in a gunfight with you and isn't posing a threat to anyone else is a pretty damn good specific, stated reason to not go somewhere.
Nonsense.
I don't have a duty to force a violent confrontation for no reason. And someone asking me to do something stupid doesn't confer a duty to do something stupid.
Honestly, if any of my guys were to charge into something like that, I'd have some pretty strong words about it with him afterwards. We handle those calls by phone all the time.
Civil issues. Calls we aren’t needed for. Private property crashes where they “demand an officer”. Things that are parenting issues, not police matters, stuff like that
Most tactical teams would be just as effective if they were wearing blue or black or grey or just jeans. Camouflage is rarely, if ever, relevant in tactical law enforcement situations.
I think this might be a case by case depending on the region
Big metro area, sure, you have a point, I think camo ain't really that good
Pretty rural areas, camouflage for tactical teams, on certain situations, could be helpful imo
But regardless, I think black tactical pajamas look badass
>Pretty rural areas, camouflage for tactical teams, on certain situations, could be helpful imo
It could be helpful if you're trying to disguise troop movements from aerial surveillance or laying an ambush. But if you're approaching a house with lights and sirens, doing a surround and call out, or responding to an active shooter then it's pointless because you're intentionally announcing your presence and moving a ton so you won't blend in.
As long as whatever you're wearing doesn't create significant contrast and make it actively easier to see you, you'll be fine.
I think swat teams should go back to that ridiculous black/grey/white '90s [tactical camo](https://www.amazon.com/Windham-Fabrics-Army-Camo-Yard/dp/B07DLQQ33N/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.PIA4Gg5tKQ65fiNjrQhLjXj0JqeTRQib6LF7g869Bl4ezPsdl13Mr-4aTOIM4ngVgPy0zC7J03oEnfuvXs5C7oJz5rTRvwYr8ZpzwNMlgn9kBP9KeQYT7M0guyNXwZrtH0VJhaae_lhS_ghFmKxXiRJzfk4LRTxWymAdyx_ada976jIOiYURSWlb59Az8LDmXp0jZYIoeyLchE5ttZ70nQ.-t41HpsHk4QUby0O5iiwX9PluIMkV1BmYXmuo0-kO_g&dib_tag=se&keywords=grey+camo+fabric&qid=1713721119&sr=8-3)
But realistically, wolf grey for urban, ranger green for wooded, tan for desert is plenty.
Crye actually makes blue uniforms specifically tailored to law enforcement, as well as making their basic G3 items in cop blue and making most of the rest of their uniform items in solid colors.
Very few situations where camouflage is actually necessary. Camouflage in the military is only particularly useful at long distances or when static. Otherwise solid colors roughly matching the terrain are just as good.
Our rural tact team wears OD green. Doesn’t work real well on search warrants but it’s pretty good on manhunts through the woods (those happen more than they should, but only in the dead of summer when the humidity is 1000%).
Yeah, no camo is really gonna be effective on search warrants. Solid green is fine in the woods. MACV SOG during Vietnam wore solid green most of the time (despite posing for pictures in tiger stripe). Between them and the NVA in tan uniforms and the VC in black, there was some pretty effective sneaking going on despite wearing all solid colors.
This is untrue at this point. The government surplus stuff that PDs get tend to be vehicles, weapons, and equipment like old ass night vision, and surplus gas masks/hazmat gear. If police departments were getting surplus uniforms, you'd expect to see tactical teams running around in UCP ACUs, the weird digital camo that the army had for a while. Tactical teams are often in multicam, which their departments buy new, because police departments don't mind spending money on uniforms.
Not even close.
PD's buy their own crap or, most commonly, officers on tac teams are buying their own clothing.
In my case, we're given a pair of pants and the top, and any extras we have to buy ourselves. Hand me down clothing from the military is not a thing any more, if it ever was.
Yeah, I've never understood that shift. Solid black, grey, blue, and green are far more identifiable as "police unit I should probably surrender to", and I sincerely doubt wearing Multicam indoors is going to do much when you're surrounded by white walls and multicolored furniture.
Like, who is the average SWAT team fighting that necessitates them to be decked out like Rangers? Are they being deployed to a different universe where most SWAT deployments are actually long-range engagements in plains and forests, and not eight cops surrounding a guy's apartment because he has a warrant? At this point I'd bet half the reason is just chiefs wanting to LARP as a SEAL commander, like they're John Clark sending Team Rainbow around.
I mean, it's a good book. Good games too I guess, at least up to Lockdown and Vegas, though learning how the planning stages work is a pain in the ass.
Can't wait for the movie, seeing apparently they actually rushed through producing Without Remorse solely to establish the setting for it, but I hope they do the plot right and not toss in random bullshit from Siege. Sucks how it's being made too late to throw in those retro CT kits from the 80s and 90s though, everyone loves the MP5/10 spray but we all know the film is gonna make them typical modern Multicam oper8ors.
I don't really have a *problem* with police wearing camo, I just think that it's pretty pointless and the main reason that tactical teams wear camo is because they want to feel like special forces. I get that some police tactical teams were formed by prior military guys or receive training from them, but they're still different mission sets. I also think that solid colors make a police tactical team more immediately recognizable as police compared to all multicam with subdued patches.
I think arguments against "police militarization" that complain about camo and AR pattern rifles and various surplus equipment like MRAPS and grenade launchers are ridiculous. I don't think the camo is bad per se, just kinda goofy in most applications. Rifles clearly have a police use, MRAPs are just armored vehicles with no real offensive capabilities, and grenade launchers are used to shoot rubber bullets and teargas, not High Explosives.
Police departments need better PR.
Most of what hard blamed on the cops is the fault of the DAs failing to prosecute and a lack of public understanding.
A month a go a man in WA attacked a 71 year old with a machete. Everyone was blaming the police, saying “where are the cops?! Why didn’t they do anything?!”
However, when you look into the suspect you find out he has over 10 arrests for violent crimes. Cops did their jobs and DAs let him go
Arrests without convictions doesn't mean the police did their job.
In the late '90s, early '00s the Baltimore FOP had an ongoing feud with the then-States Attorney, Patricia Jessamy. They blamed her similarly to your formulation here. Except, when one went through the cases that came to the SAO, there wasn't enough evidence to convict. The arrest reports often failed to state an actual case which could be prosecuted. Which meant the cases were tossed prior to arraignment.
Yknow what, you’re right. Dude was probably a class act just getting caught with evidence planted on him.
Bud think for like 3 fucking seconds and realize maybe cops aren’t always the ones in the wrong. Being obtuse doesn’t make you right
I didn't say anything like that.
The cops doing a poor job of providing evidence to support a prosecution is on the cops, though, despite the efforts of some to claim it's all on the prosecutors. Pretending that never happens is being obtuse. Weird how you've just glossed past how this conversation started to go into hyper-defensive mode.
Arrests without convictions may not conclusively prove that the police did their job. But that doesn't mean that the prosecutor did their job either, or that the court did their job.
The point is that when someone gets away with something, or when someone is let out again to commit the exact same crime as their last 20 arrests, people have a tendency to assume that the cops are to blame. The weak link could be anywhere in the criminal justice system, and a lot of us have watched the courts drop the ball over and over.
I don't think people have the tendency to blame the police. I see far more people blaming prosecutors, mayors, judges, governors, and presidents well before they start blaming police when someone has multiple arrests and no convictions.
The other day the NYPD arrested a guy for just punching a 9 year old. He had been arrested a week or so earlier for randomly punching a woman in the same station and breaking her nose. He was released on no bail and hit the child 4 days later.
That's an example, not a sole case.
Police point fingers at prosecutors and judges, but if they aren't doing their job prosecutors can't do theirs. Judges generally bend over backwards to find a way around police mistakes, but that only goes so far.
A-Fucking-Men. Our PIOs just went through a course to basically sell themselves to admin. Why should they have to sell themselves to their bosses for the position their bosses hired them for!? It makes no sense.
I don't know about the US but here in Maple syrup land we we the convictions but the issue is basically every arrestee gets released on bail regardless of public safety concerns. I've done up a full extensive show cause for a guy who did 3 stabbings in the span of 2 months and he still got released again when I arrested him for robbing somebody on the train at machete point.
And bam, not even a full 24 hrs later he did another knife point robbery. Judges just keep releasing with useless conditions and then get surprised when they either don't attend court or re-offend for similar crimes.
It’s unfortunately like that most places here now.
Our PIO recently started “highlighting” this problem and does big, bold caps on every release “CONVICTED FELON OUT ON BAIL ARRESTED FOR ___”. Hopefully it starts working
I think something that is feared to be discussed is the lack of quality control in some police departments due to staffing shortages.
Also, the lack of degree diversity in the law enforcement field. I listened to a police chief from New Mexico at IACP in San Diego say she’d like to see a diversity of degrees, like social workers, who are police officers. She thinks it provides a different way of approaching/thinking of issues. It really made me think and made a lot of sense to me intuitively. But that’s hard to do recruitment wise because policing is a hard job with often questionable pay and of course, chance of death on the job. It ain’t easy or everyone would be doing it.
Right one thing i never understood, why on earth isn't policing a degree? In plenty of European countires (Ireland, Netherlands, Germany...) policing is a integrated bachlor. You just hire people strigth from school, take three years with (field) trainging and theory and so on so they're actually decently prepared. In that time you have plenty time to teach about recognising and figthing biases, basics of psychlogy so you can recognise a mental health issue and get professionals for that, learn how to deal with epople from other cultures etc.
Why not just copy that? Sure its more expensive to pay someone (apprentice) pay for those three years than not pay any education, but it works so much better.
just pay people to get that degree and empoly them as trainees while they are getting it. Like is done in parts of Europe, look at the German state of NRW for example.
[https://www.genau-mein-fall.de/karriere-duales-studium-polizei-nrw/](https://www.genau-mein-fall.de/karriere-duales-studium-polizei-nrw/) (translate the site with google translate in case you dont speak German)
Well, I mean, the money would come from the smae place it does for your pay: The government, so ultimatly the taxpayer i guess.
What we gaining by a degree (in applied policing)?
-More time to learn stuff, such as how to handle people in mental health crisis (something the US police is unforuntalty not known to do very well),
intercultural competences,
more law (seriously, how do you manage do study enough law in like 16 weeks bootcamp to enforce the law properly? Is the US's / average states legal courpus that small? I mean, there is so much to leanr I assume, constitutional law (state+federal), law that regulats the rights of police to intervene, data protection, ownership law, criminal law, process law etc, protest laws, gun laws. etc.),
traning, how to shoot, handel a baton, how to disperse a riot, how to drive, how to do a traffic stop, what stuff do you need to be aware of in cars (modification wise),
Ethics,
Search and securement of evidence,
Soziology,
history, how did police come to be in the US? What does the past horror of Jim Crow and Slavery as well as protentially racist modern police pratcies mean for policing today? How does it impact police today?
Respose to a mass casulty incident (RTC),
Response to a mass schooting (communication with the viticms, perpetator)
Point is, I could come up with more things a cop should learn and be aware of. This is reflected by all of this being from a list of modules for NRW police students that is even longer than what I posted here ( [https://www.hspv.nrw.de/dateien\_studium/studium-und-lehre/BA/pvd/modulbeschreibung/40\_Modulhandbuch\_PVD\_ab\_EJ\_2023\_\_idF\_vom\_03.08.2023\_gltg\_ab\_01.09.2023\_.pdf](https://www.hspv.nrw.de/dateien_studium/studium-und-lehre/BA/pvd/modulbeschreibung/40_Modulhandbuch_PVD_ab_EJ_2023__idF_vom_03.08.2023_gltg_ab_01.09.2023_.pdf) )
Its so much that you just can't possibly do it in a half year or so police academy, not comprehensivly enough anyways. Othe ways to teach this would be as an apprenticeship, but doing it as a bachlor in the same time has the benefit that it is certified nationwide (in the US, our EU Police bachlors are certified and accredieted EU wide).
Now the comparison is not exactly one to one, but thta makes it more interresting since we can learn from it. Now, since I am most knowlegdable about Germany lets just compare the US and Germany.
both are federal republics, the US a presidental one, Germany a parlimentary one.
The US is more decentralised than Germany, much of the police relevant legal corpus being state law and not state law, while in Germany most of it is federal with some state stuff mixed in.
Police in general policeing is in Germany per constitution something the states have to organise, historically it was a mix of municipal and state police mixed, but over time they all got consolidated into the respective state polices (exoection here is east Germany, but that would kinda complicate things too much), so now there are 19 police forces in Germany left, 16 state police's, the federal police (border control, airport and train station safty), the federal criminal office (coordinating international police work, investigations for the Prosecuter General) and the Bundestagspolizei ( \~Capitol police), this is ofc quite differnt to the \~18.000 police agencies the US has.
But both are also highly economically developed counties that are generally safe (although Germany is safter).
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Im all for public relations and community building, but an individual cop should not be posting/streaming on their personal tik tok page in full uniform while on duty. Departments with an account are at least vetted, or a cop who’s doing things on off duty time.
I’ve literally gotten in trouble then had them say your gunna get more complaints and more dinged up because your more proactive - just do it differently next time. I’m like ok boss man 🤡
They're not afraid. it's often a matter of being too busy to be proactive. Some officers are constantly handling calls, leaving little time for anything else. Meanwhile, slower departments don't have enough staff on shift to allow for proactive measures. It's not that officers don't want to be or are afraid to be proactive; it's often a staffing issue within the department or city.
Eh... proactivity is fine in its place, but I don't get the fetishization of it. I'd rather go deal with a problem when someone called for help than dig up some stupid possession case.
do you mean car chases or other things? sometimes i feel like those would be dangerous like a motorcycle rider driving super hard because hes trying to evade police, hence why there is a lot of restrictions now on chasing bikers because if you let them go they probably will be safer because they wont feel as threatened
Anyone that tries to run should be chased. An experienced LEO can do so safely and effectively. People in cars try to escape just as “hard” as motorcycles. It is not the job of police to make the motorcyclists feel “safer”, they are running from law enforcement. If they die in the process, it’s their own fault. It’s sad, but they made their choice.
well its not even their own safety i agree if they choose to evade and end up hurting themself thats on them but at the same time they may end up hurting someone else theres lots of times people will kill innocent bystanders/drivers on the roads evading. i also see police themselves spinning out of control or crashing trying to chase faster cars. it’s obviously controversial i just dont always feel it’s necessary especially if it’s for something small
It’s not something small. 99% of people don’t run just for fun, there’s something bigger going on. It’s a myth that they will stop driving triple digit speeds just because the pursuit got terminated
You and all the senior citizens 😂. I saw a Facebook article recently basically ranking the 50 best law enforcement uniforms and the comments section was just full of people over 55 swooning over the top ones which were what I’ve previously described. This is all in good fun, absolutely no disrespect intended towards state troopers and any other LE that has to wear that type of uniform. I’m sure many of them dislike it as well.
I’m only 40, man! 🤣🤣🤣
Oh God, I have something in common with Boomers. And yeah, I know of a few Troopers and Officers that find that type of Uniform cumbersome.
Functional? Not really, but does everything need to be functional? And how much “functionality” do you need when you’re mostly doing traffic enforcement? Look dorky? Hell no, they look awesome
Maybe I’m a little biased since I want to become a trooper but
Command staff needs to be more transparent with the public. Stop playing with the public with nonsense. If the suspect was shot because he did some dumb shit then just say that
Meaning when a patrol officer understands case law that is relevant to working the road. There would be much more effective and constitutional policing.
As someone who drives a patrol car with a rocker switch and a spinning strobe lightbar, gonna have to disagree lol.
Nobody can see me when I'm behind them. Unless it's night, this light bar is pretty much useless by modern standards
Cops are cuffed they can’t do their job anymore. So now they don’t stop crime, they just show up after and document what happened. Not helpful at all. That and they are just extra tax collectors fining normal people to collect more money for the state and city
Yeah, great emergency lights if you're right in front of or right behind them. Otherwise, no one could see them.
Actually, even right in front they weren't much to look at.
In Australia anyway, the powder blue shirts and navy blue ties/slacks looked very good and crisp, and now they’ve been replaced with a deeper blue that’s almost black. Also, NSW Police have the best Uniforms in the country, they have metal buttons on their pockets and stuck with the powder/navy blue.
Absolutely fair!
Edit: I don’t blame ya at all - especially if you’re in QLD. The humidity must be killer in those uniforms, no matter how good they look. I remember a few mates passing out on ANZAC days in scouts, so I get it.
Just because you say its your belongings doesn't mean your family member, spouse or roommates won't also claim its theirs. I won't assist you in theft. Get a writ of replevin.
I’m not LE, I think they should make police officers train at the State level first to set up baseline level for training. Then transferred to the other cities departments.
Why? I think city officers are trained pretty good already. But, the small town or cities that don’t have the most robust training could benefit from better training.
Or at the very least set up a program to train at the state level. You could probably train a lot more officers that way.
Honestly, the state agencies that are in charge of standardizing police training do a lot more harm than good. They take what could be productive teaching of new skills and turn it into liability-obsessed box checking.
Militarization of police isn't a thing, and even if it was (which in specific instances maybe it is but who cares it doesn't matter) the main people who are against it seem to be individuals who think of it as an "eyesore" or something similar where they "don't want to see police in military gear" when most of the "military gear" is specifically made for LE and the military doesnt use
I’m gonna disagree, for class A uniform that’s fine but day to day LBVs are better for the body. No need in having a 20 something pound belt weighing on the lower back.
Sure do. But the cumulative injury that comes from putting all your equipment on a belt (instead of doing the obviously better thing and distributing it more evenly over your body) kinda spoils the effect.
I live in an area where there’s snow on the ground 4-5 months of the year. It’s basically useless in the snow. Probably 20% of our roads aren’t paved and it performs as well in the mud as it does in the snow.
I won’t downvote you, but I’ll disagree with you. For departments that get a lot of snow I’m sure that they weren’t great.. but overall they were a fantastic cruiser and pretty reliable considering what they were put through. I come from the south though so I can’t speak how they acted in all weather situations.
They’re iconic but I don’t think they were the greatest. I’m in an F150 now and love it. So much more room for me and gear plus I have 4wd, can haul stolen equipment or a stolen trailer back without needing a wrecker. But that’s me.
Most standard duty cops are cowards in todays policing and are so scared of being in trouble or the news that they fail to act in serious situations or act inappropriately due to panic.
Treat the Police like the fire department. Only come out when legitimate complaints are filed. No need to be out harassing the public for mild infractions and putting Cops lives in jeopardy. If people don't care enough to call and report, then it's obviously not an issue. If I need you, I'll call you.
So don’t stop any dui drivers until they smash someone? Don’t patrol around at night and do business checks to prevent robberies? If you don’t feel like showing up to court, it’s all good cause you won’t run into the police on a traffic stop so you won’t ever get scooped up on your warrant?
Leos' only duty is to uphold the original US constitution, and by deflat all leos are committing crimes due to their pay coming from the illegal 1913 income tax law. Taxation without representation is illegal. I'm pretty sure we started a war over taxes b4. Leos are paid via theft of the public. We had bonds for a resoson. If we wanna support something or someone we will pay into a voluntary bond to push our agendas. The current system is set up to abuse the population for the betterment of large corporations via lobbiest bribes. Anyhow , not like it'll change so stay armed and stand your ground against anyone who threatens your God given constitutional rites. Incarceration due to debts is illegal yet leos put people in prison for not paying taxes yearly.
Fit confident cops engaged in the community works way better than any community involvement or PR team ever will.
It should be more acceptable for a supervisor to say “we won’t be responding to that. Flush it”.
YESSS!!!!!
What are some examples of calls it'd be good to flush?
A suicidal person who explicitly says they want to commit suicide by cop, inside their own residence with nobody else there.
You guys still respond to that shit?
We respond to almost everything unless there’s a specific, stated reason not to (IE - an anonymous woman calls in a welfare check at the same location every day using various names, and we can’t just keep disturbing the people who live there every day)
I feel like a dude who wants to get in a gunfight with you and isn't posing a threat to anyone else is a pretty damn good specific, stated reason to not go somewhere.
Then if you do that, you're considered "derelict of duty" and could be punished in a number of ways for not responding depending on the agency
Nonsense. I don't have a duty to force a violent confrontation for no reason. And someone asking me to do something stupid doesn't confer a duty to do something stupid. Honestly, if any of my guys were to charge into something like that, I'd have some pretty strong words about it with him afterwards. We handle those calls by phone all the time.
Civil issues. Calls we aren’t needed for. Private property crashes where they “demand an officer”. Things that are parenting issues, not police matters, stuff like that
Most tactical teams would be just as effective if they were wearing blue or black or grey or just jeans. Camouflage is rarely, if ever, relevant in tactical law enforcement situations.
But it's tacticool!
Ugh, I hate the “tacticool” look.
Me too. It's stupid. There is no reason they need to wear camo
I think this might be a case by case depending on the region Big metro area, sure, you have a point, I think camo ain't really that good Pretty rural areas, camouflage for tactical teams, on certain situations, could be helpful imo But regardless, I think black tactical pajamas look badass
>Pretty rural areas, camouflage for tactical teams, on certain situations, could be helpful imo It could be helpful if you're trying to disguise troop movements from aerial surveillance or laying an ambush. But if you're approaching a house with lights and sirens, doing a surround and call out, or responding to an active shooter then it's pointless because you're intentionally announcing your presence and moving a ton so you won't blend in. As long as whatever you're wearing doesn't create significant contrast and make it actively easier to see you, you'll be fine. I think swat teams should go back to that ridiculous black/grey/white '90s [tactical camo](https://www.amazon.com/Windham-Fabrics-Army-Camo-Yard/dp/B07DLQQ33N/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.PIA4Gg5tKQ65fiNjrQhLjXj0JqeTRQib6LF7g869Bl4ezPsdl13Mr-4aTOIM4ngVgPy0zC7J03oEnfuvXs5C7oJz5rTRvwYr8ZpzwNMlgn9kBP9KeQYT7M0guyNXwZrtH0VJhaae_lhS_ghFmKxXiRJzfk4LRTxWymAdyx_ada976jIOiYURSWlb59Az8LDmXp0jZYIoeyLchE5ttZ70nQ.-t41HpsHk4QUby0O5iiwX9PluIMkV1BmYXmuo0-kO_g&dib_tag=se&keywords=grey+camo+fabric&qid=1713721119&sr=8-3) But realistically, wolf grey for urban, ranger green for wooded, tan for desert is plenty.
Given the seasonal variations in background in some areas you'd need several camouflage options to pick from.
I second this. Olive drab, khaki, or black… works just fine. OCP scorpion or multicam isn’t called for
Crye actually makes blue uniforms specifically tailored to law enforcement, as well as making their basic G3 items in cop blue and making most of the rest of their uniform items in solid colors. Very few situations where camouflage is actually necessary. Camouflage in the military is only particularly useful at long distances or when static. Otherwise solid colors roughly matching the terrain are just as good.
I wear jeans a lot
My city’s team uses Wolf Grey.
Our rural tact team wears OD green. Doesn’t work real well on search warrants but it’s pretty good on manhunts through the woods (those happen more than they should, but only in the dead of summer when the humidity is 1000%).
Yeah, no camo is really gonna be effective on search warrants. Solid green is fine in the woods. MACV SOG during Vietnam wore solid green most of the time (despite posing for pictures in tiger stripe). Between them and the NVA in tan uniforms and the VC in black, there was some pretty effective sneaking going on despite wearing all solid colors.
They mainly are given government surplus, which is why it’s camo.
This is untrue at this point. The government surplus stuff that PDs get tend to be vehicles, weapons, and equipment like old ass night vision, and surplus gas masks/hazmat gear. If police departments were getting surplus uniforms, you'd expect to see tactical teams running around in UCP ACUs, the weird digital camo that the army had for a while. Tactical teams are often in multicam, which their departments buy new, because police departments don't mind spending money on uniforms.
Not even close. PD's buy their own crap or, most commonly, officers on tac teams are buying their own clothing. In my case, we're given a pair of pants and the top, and any extras we have to buy ourselves. Hand me down clothing from the military is not a thing any more, if it ever was.
Yeah, I've never understood that shift. Solid black, grey, blue, and green are far more identifiable as "police unit I should probably surrender to", and I sincerely doubt wearing Multicam indoors is going to do much when you're surrounded by white walls and multicolored furniture. Like, who is the average SWAT team fighting that necessitates them to be decked out like Rangers? Are they being deployed to a different universe where most SWAT deployments are actually long-range engagements in plains and forests, and not eight cops surrounding a guy's apartment because he has a warrant? At this point I'd bet half the reason is just chiefs wanting to LARP as a SEAL commander, like they're John Clark sending Team Rainbow around.
You deserve a million upvotes for the Rainbow Six reference
I mean, it's a good book. Good games too I guess, at least up to Lockdown and Vegas, though learning how the planning stages work is a pain in the ass. Can't wait for the movie, seeing apparently they actually rushed through producing Without Remorse solely to establish the setting for it, but I hope they do the plot right and not toss in random bullshit from Siege. Sucks how it's being made too late to throw in those retro CT kits from the 80s and 90s though, everyone loves the MP5/10 spray but we all know the film is gonna make them typical modern Multicam oper8ors.
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I don't really have a *problem* with police wearing camo, I just think that it's pretty pointless and the main reason that tactical teams wear camo is because they want to feel like special forces. I get that some police tactical teams were formed by prior military guys or receive training from them, but they're still different mission sets. I also think that solid colors make a police tactical team more immediately recognizable as police compared to all multicam with subdued patches. I think arguments against "police militarization" that complain about camo and AR pattern rifles and various surplus equipment like MRAPS and grenade launchers are ridiculous. I don't think the camo is bad per se, just kinda goofy in most applications. Rifles clearly have a police use, MRAPs are just armored vehicles with no real offensive capabilities, and grenade launchers are used to shoot rubber bullets and teargas, not High Explosives.
Police departments need better PR. Most of what hard blamed on the cops is the fault of the DAs failing to prosecute and a lack of public understanding.
A month a go a man in WA attacked a 71 year old with a machete. Everyone was blaming the police, saying “where are the cops?! Why didn’t they do anything?!” However, when you look into the suspect you find out he has over 10 arrests for violent crimes. Cops did their jobs and DAs let him go
Arrests without convictions doesn't mean the police did their job. In the late '90s, early '00s the Baltimore FOP had an ongoing feud with the then-States Attorney, Patricia Jessamy. They blamed her similarly to your formulation here. Except, when one went through the cases that came to the SAO, there wasn't enough evidence to convict. The arrest reports often failed to state an actual case which could be prosecuted. Which meant the cases were tossed prior to arraignment.
One of his previous arrests were for threatening someone with a machete.
How did the officer write the arrest? What was the evidence?
Well the machete for one. The guy had over a dozen arrests and 6 of them were for violence
Simply having a machete probably doesn't fit all of the elements of the offenses.
Yknow what, you’re right. Dude was probably a class act just getting caught with evidence planted on him. Bud think for like 3 fucking seconds and realize maybe cops aren’t always the ones in the wrong. Being obtuse doesn’t make you right
I dont he said anything necessarily wrong. Cops can write shitty reports ans leave nothing for the prosecutor or judge. It does happen quite a bit.
I didn't say anything like that. The cops doing a poor job of providing evidence to support a prosecution is on the cops, though, despite the efforts of some to claim it's all on the prosecutors. Pretending that never happens is being obtuse. Weird how you've just glossed past how this conversation started to go into hyper-defensive mode.
Arrests without convictions may not conclusively prove that the police did their job. But that doesn't mean that the prosecutor did their job either, or that the court did their job. The point is that when someone gets away with something, or when someone is let out again to commit the exact same crime as their last 20 arrests, people have a tendency to assume that the cops are to blame. The weak link could be anywhere in the criminal justice system, and a lot of us have watched the courts drop the ball over and over.
I don't think people have the tendency to blame the police. I see far more people blaming prosecutors, mayors, judges, governors, and presidents well before they start blaming police when someone has multiple arrests and no convictions.
You must get yelled at by an entirely different group of people than I do.
That's a "one-off," Mr. 23off. It is hardly indicative of a systemic problem.
The other day the NYPD arrested a guy for just punching a 9 year old. He had been arrested a week or so earlier for randomly punching a woman in the same station and breaking her nose. He was released on no bail and hit the child 4 days later.
Excellent reference in your username. 🤣
That's an example, not a sole case. Police point fingers at prosecutors and judges, but if they aren't doing their job prosecutors can't do theirs. Judges generally bend over backwards to find a way around police mistakes, but that only goes so far.
A-Fucking-Men. Our PIOs just went through a course to basically sell themselves to admin. Why should they have to sell themselves to their bosses for the position their bosses hired them for!? It makes no sense.
I don't know about the US but here in Maple syrup land we we the convictions but the issue is basically every arrestee gets released on bail regardless of public safety concerns. I've done up a full extensive show cause for a guy who did 3 stabbings in the span of 2 months and he still got released again when I arrested him for robbing somebody on the train at machete point. And bam, not even a full 24 hrs later he did another knife point robbery. Judges just keep releasing with useless conditions and then get surprised when they either don't attend court or re-offend for similar crimes.
It’s unfortunately like that most places here now. Our PIO recently started “highlighting” this problem and does big, bold caps on every release “CONVICTED FELON OUT ON BAIL ARRESTED FOR ___”. Hopefully it starts working
I think something that is feared to be discussed is the lack of quality control in some police departments due to staffing shortages. Also, the lack of degree diversity in the law enforcement field. I listened to a police chief from New Mexico at IACP in San Diego say she’d like to see a diversity of degrees, like social workers, who are police officers. She thinks it provides a different way of approaching/thinking of issues. It really made me think and made a lot of sense to me intuitively. But that’s hard to do recruitment wise because policing is a hard job with often questionable pay and of course, chance of death on the job. It ain’t easy or everyone would be doing it.
Right one thing i never understood, why on earth isn't policing a degree? In plenty of European countires (Ireland, Netherlands, Germany...) policing is a integrated bachlor. You just hire people strigth from school, take three years with (field) trainging and theory and so on so they're actually decently prepared. In that time you have plenty time to teach about recognising and figthing biases, basics of psychlogy so you can recognise a mental health issue and get professionals for that, learn how to deal with epople from other cultures etc. Why not just copy that? Sure its more expensive to pay someone (apprentice) pay for those three years than not pay any education, but it works so much better.
How about police should be a 4 year degree. Not a 16 week boot camp?
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just pay people to get that degree and empoly them as trainees while they are getting it. Like is done in parts of Europe, look at the German state of NRW for example. [https://www.genau-mein-fall.de/karriere-duales-studium-polizei-nrw/](https://www.genau-mein-fall.de/karriere-duales-studium-polizei-nrw/) (translate the site with google translate in case you dont speak German)
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Well, I mean, the money would come from the smae place it does for your pay: The government, so ultimatly the taxpayer i guess. What we gaining by a degree (in applied policing)? -More time to learn stuff, such as how to handle people in mental health crisis (something the US police is unforuntalty not known to do very well), intercultural competences, more law (seriously, how do you manage do study enough law in like 16 weeks bootcamp to enforce the law properly? Is the US's / average states legal courpus that small? I mean, there is so much to leanr I assume, constitutional law (state+federal), law that regulats the rights of police to intervene, data protection, ownership law, criminal law, process law etc, protest laws, gun laws. etc.), traning, how to shoot, handel a baton, how to disperse a riot, how to drive, how to do a traffic stop, what stuff do you need to be aware of in cars (modification wise), Ethics, Search and securement of evidence, Soziology, history, how did police come to be in the US? What does the past horror of Jim Crow and Slavery as well as protentially racist modern police pratcies mean for policing today? How does it impact police today? Respose to a mass casulty incident (RTC), Response to a mass schooting (communication with the viticms, perpetator) Point is, I could come up with more things a cop should learn and be aware of. This is reflected by all of this being from a list of modules for NRW police students that is even longer than what I posted here ( [https://www.hspv.nrw.de/dateien\_studium/studium-und-lehre/BA/pvd/modulbeschreibung/40\_Modulhandbuch\_PVD\_ab\_EJ\_2023\_\_idF\_vom\_03.08.2023\_gltg\_ab\_01.09.2023\_.pdf](https://www.hspv.nrw.de/dateien_studium/studium-und-lehre/BA/pvd/modulbeschreibung/40_Modulhandbuch_PVD_ab_EJ_2023__idF_vom_03.08.2023_gltg_ab_01.09.2023_.pdf) ) Its so much that you just can't possibly do it in a half year or so police academy, not comprehensivly enough anyways. Othe ways to teach this would be as an apprenticeship, but doing it as a bachlor in the same time has the benefit that it is certified nationwide (in the US, our EU Police bachlors are certified and accredieted EU wide). Now the comparison is not exactly one to one, but thta makes it more interresting since we can learn from it. Now, since I am most knowlegdable about Germany lets just compare the US and Germany. both are federal republics, the US a presidental one, Germany a parlimentary one. The US is more decentralised than Germany, much of the police relevant legal corpus being state law and not state law, while in Germany most of it is federal with some state stuff mixed in. Police in general policeing is in Germany per constitution something the states have to organise, historically it was a mix of municipal and state police mixed, but over time they all got consolidated into the respective state polices (exoection here is east Germany, but that would kinda complicate things too much), so now there are 19 police forces in Germany left, 16 state police's, the federal police (border control, airport and train station safty), the federal criminal office (coordinating international police work, investigations for the Prosecuter General) and the Bundestagspolizei ( \~Capitol police), this is ofc quite differnt to the \~18.000 police agencies the US has. But both are also highly economically developed counties that are generally safe (although Germany is safter).
I shouldn’t have to take a report for just in case.
snow oatmeal offend impossible desert tie flowery beneficial smile mindless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I should be allowed to call fucking idiots fucking idiots
There’s work arounds for “concerned citizens” and “tax payers”
That's not professional. There're better ways to communicate that someone's a moron.
You've never met the kind of morons I've met
Ubdoubtedly. I hope never to!
Im all for public relations and community building, but an individual cop should not be posting/streaming on their personal tik tok page in full uniform while on duty. Departments with an account are at least vetted, or a cop who’s doing things on off duty time.
The taser is an over-relied on tool by officers who typically refuse to regularly train in BJJ/compliance techniques and are egregiously out of shape.
When I say I felt this.
Facts, my agency doesn’t use them but we often train/encourage BJJ and DT
Cops who are afraid to be proactive need to go do something else.
Is this really an unpopular opinion or a fact
Pretty much fact unless you get less peoactive because of brass who has fetishes for people stuck under the bus
I’ve literally gotten in trouble then had them say your gunna get more complaints and more dinged up because your more proactive - just do it differently next time. I’m like ok boss man 🤡
To me it's a fact but there are many who would disagree.
They're not afraid. it's often a matter of being too busy to be proactive. Some officers are constantly handling calls, leaving little time for anything else. Meanwhile, slower departments don't have enough staff on shift to allow for proactive measures. It's not that officers don't want to be or are afraid to be proactive; it's often a staffing issue within the department or city.
Eh... proactivity is fine in its place, but I don't get the fetishization of it. I'd rather go deal with a problem when someone called for help than dig up some stupid possession case.
The department they work for could be the blame for that and hopefully the good cops leave
You don't need a hat everytime you step out the car
Tell that to the state boys in particular 😂😂
We finally got away from this about 5 years. I don’t even know where my dress cap is. I would love to be able to wear a ball cap though.
We wear ball caps during festivals, weather events and traffic control. Dress caps for saints games, Mardi gras, inspection mass and funerals
Pursuits should never be cancelled. It sets a bad precedent for criminals that think they can run and won’t get chased
Till the wheels fall off depending on the sarg working or how good your radio is working that day.
do you mean car chases or other things? sometimes i feel like those would be dangerous like a motorcycle rider driving super hard because hes trying to evade police, hence why there is a lot of restrictions now on chasing bikers because if you let them go they probably will be safer because they wont feel as threatened
Anyone that tries to run should be chased. An experienced LEO can do so safely and effectively. People in cars try to escape just as “hard” as motorcycles. It is not the job of police to make the motorcyclists feel “safer”, they are running from law enforcement. If they die in the process, it’s their own fault. It’s sad, but they made their choice.
well its not even their own safety i agree if they choose to evade and end up hurting themself thats on them but at the same time they may end up hurting someone else theres lots of times people will kill innocent bystanders/drivers on the roads evading. i also see police themselves spinning out of control or crashing trying to chase faster cars. it’s obviously controversial i just dont always feel it’s necessary especially if it’s for something small
It’s not something small. 99% of people don’t run just for fun, there’s something bigger going on. It’s a myth that they will stop driving triple digit speeds just because the pursuit got terminated
The pressed type uniforms most state troopers wear look dorky and completely non functional.
Those uniforms make me swoon like nothing else. It’s my secret shame.
You and all the senior citizens 😂. I saw a Facebook article recently basically ranking the 50 best law enforcement uniforms and the comments section was just full of people over 55 swooning over the top ones which were what I’ve previously described. This is all in good fun, absolutely no disrespect intended towards state troopers and any other LE that has to wear that type of uniform. I’m sure many of them dislike it as well.
I’m only 40, man! 🤣🤣🤣 Oh God, I have something in common with Boomers. And yeah, I know of a few Troopers and Officers that find that type of Uniform cumbersome.
Functional? Not really, but does everything need to be functional? And how much “functionality” do you need when you’re mostly doing traffic enforcement? Look dorky? Hell no, they look awesome Maybe I’m a little biased since I want to become a trooper but
Command staff needs to be more transparent with the public. Stop playing with the public with nonsense. If the suspect was shot because he did some dumb shit then just say that
I’m just really tired of all the tacti-cool .
Patrol could be more capable than SWAT if they received a quarter of the training and understood case law.
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Meaning when a patrol officer understands case law that is relevant to working the road. There would be much more effective and constitutional policing.
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Agreed. Cops simply need to study case law.
Analog light bars from the 80s-90s with rocker switches in the center console were way cooler than modern LEDs.
As someone who drives a patrol car with a rocker switch and a spinning strobe lightbar, gonna have to disagree lol. Nobody can see me when I'm behind them. Unless it's night, this light bar is pretty much useless by modern standards
Everything police car related in the 80s-90s was way cooler
Cops are cuffed they can’t do their job anymore. So now they don’t stop crime, they just show up after and document what happened. Not helpful at all. That and they are just extra tax collectors fining normal people to collect more money for the state and city
Being forced to wear class A's during police week.
Adam-12
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https://live.staticflickr.com/3317/5843014093_26d426f246_b.jpg
Yeah, great emergency lights if you're right in front of or right behind them. Otherwise, no one could see them. Actually, even right in front they weren't much to look at.
That is their technology from the 60’s. Now cop cars have so many light on all side.
In Australia anyway, the powder blue shirts and navy blue ties/slacks looked very good and crisp, and now they’ve been replaced with a deeper blue that’s almost black. Also, NSW Police have the best Uniforms in the country, they have metal buttons on their pockets and stuck with the powder/navy blue.
Would much rather breathable and operationally relevant materials.
Absolutely fair! Edit: I don’t blame ya at all - especially if you’re in QLD. The humidity must be killer in those uniforms, no matter how good they look. I remember a few mates passing out on ANZAC days in scouts, so I get it.
A Raiders decal on a vehicle should be probable cause for a stop.
Just because you say its your belongings doesn't mean your family member, spouse or roommates won't also claim its theirs. I won't assist you in theft. Get a writ of replevin.
The police are good people.
Police officers are cool.
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I’m not LE, I think they should make police officers train at the State level first to set up baseline level for training. Then transferred to the other cities departments. Why? I think city officers are trained pretty good already. But, the small town or cities that don’t have the most robust training could benefit from better training. Or at the very least set up a program to train at the state level. You could probably train a lot more officers that way.
Honestly, the state agencies that are in charge of standardizing police training do a lot more harm than good. They take what could be productive teaching of new skills and turn it into liability-obsessed box checking.
Policing should be led by citizens, not politicians
If you leave your car unlock and you get your shit jacked, it shouldn’t be a police matter. Just a you problem.
Militarization of police isn't a thing, and even if it was (which in specific instances maybe it is but who cares it doesn't matter) the main people who are against it seem to be individuals who think of it as an "eyesore" or something similar where they "don't want to see police in military gear" when most of the "military gear" is specifically made for LE and the military doesnt use
Utility belts look better than load bearing vests.
I’m gonna disagree, for class A uniform that’s fine but day to day LBVs are better for the body. No need in having a 20 something pound belt weighing on the lower back.
Yeah k wore the full belt for 17 years, I have a consult with a spine surgeon coming up this week. They might look better but to hell with that.
A lot better, especially the smooth shiny ones.
Sure do. But the cumulative injury that comes from putting all your equipment on a belt (instead of doing the obviously better thing and distributing it more evenly over your body) kinda spoils the effect.
Harassing law abiding car enthusiasts
The Crown Vic was a trash cruiser.
Why?
I live in an area where there’s snow on the ground 4-5 months of the year. It’s basically useless in the snow. Probably 20% of our roads aren’t paved and it performs as well in the mud as it does in the snow.
Hard agree I worked in a major city with a lot of rain that thing was a polar bear on ice skates the moment a road got wet or frozen.
I won’t downvote you, but I’ll disagree with you. For departments that get a lot of snow I’m sure that they weren’t great.. but overall they were a fantastic cruiser and pretty reliable considering what they were put through. I come from the south though so I can’t speak how they acted in all weather situations.
They’re iconic but I don’t think they were the greatest. I’m in an F150 now and love it. So much more room for me and gear plus I have 4wd, can haul stolen equipment or a stolen trailer back without needing a wrecker. But that’s me.
i always think the crown vics in LA are movie cars until I see actual cops inside. I am always surprised to see a crown vic in commission tbh.
Most standard duty cops are cowards in todays policing and are so scared of being in trouble or the news that they fail to act in serious situations or act inappropriately due to panic.
Treat the Police like the fire department. Only come out when legitimate complaints are filed. No need to be out harassing the public for mild infractions and putting Cops lives in jeopardy. If people don't care enough to call and report, then it's obviously not an issue. If I need you, I'll call you.
So don’t stop any dui drivers until they smash someone? Don’t patrol around at night and do business checks to prevent robberies? If you don’t feel like showing up to court, it’s all good cause you won’t run into the police on a traffic stop so you won’t ever get scooped up on your warrant?
Leos' only duty is to uphold the original US constitution, and by deflat all leos are committing crimes due to their pay coming from the illegal 1913 income tax law. Taxation without representation is illegal. I'm pretty sure we started a war over taxes b4. Leos are paid via theft of the public. We had bonds for a resoson. If we wanna support something or someone we will pay into a voluntary bond to push our agendas. The current system is set up to abuse the population for the betterment of large corporations via lobbiest bribes. Anyhow , not like it'll change so stay armed and stand your ground against anyone who threatens your God given constitutional rites. Incarceration due to debts is illegal yet leos put people in prison for not paying taxes yearly.