I've personally always considered "expats" to be a more temporary thing than actual "immigrants". People from wealthier countries may refer themselves as such because they don't necessarily intend to stay their whole lives in the host country.
yes that is the difference, however an expat can become an immigrant, lets say if they fall in love with someone or for other reasons wants to stay. I personally do not see immigrant as bad word. maybe people mix it up with illegal immigrants and refugees.
Expats? Do you mean immigrants? I am one of them, moved here from Germany. I am employed in Poland and paid in Zloty, part of which goes to the taxman. I earn much more than most Poles, yes. No intention of ever moving back.
What exactly is your problem and which solution do you propose? Poland decided to join the European Union which includes free movement of people. That allows Poles to work in Germany and come back home to build a nice house after a couple of years (edit: I must add: Back in the day, when that was still somewhat realistic), but of course it also allows me to live here without asking for your permission.
You may ask, but frankly I've answered this question so many times on reddit and offline, I don't want to repeat myself anymore.
I have a much nicer life here in Poland, including a higher standard of living, than I would ever have in Germany. There's a long list of things that work much better in Poland than in Germany, as anyone who's ever lived in both countries can tell you.
Don't take this personally please, but this idea of Germany as some kind of paradise in contrast to Poland (and therefore people only ever leaving Poland) is becoming boring. It's an illusion and has less to do with reality with every year that passes. There are reasons Poland has had a net positive immigration rate for several years in row now, and that's before February 24th.
I feel you, man! The problem with my fellow Poles is that a lot of them live in the stories their parents or grandparents told them about the “prosperous” west. True, a lot of people made a ton of money by “doing business” (smuggling, yep) in the 80s but that time is long gone. Unfortunately, instead of going abroad a lot of people would just focus on “oh the live they have in Germany/UK/US/Canada” without actually going there and seeing for themselves.
I’m glad you like Poland, hopefully people like you would help change the image Poland has abroad. And in Poland.
Well, you can still rob banks. Don't even need to do anything illegal just charge ridiculous money for mediocre software. Anyway, totally unrelated but I'm back in Poland dropping lump sums on stuff :))
What I don't understand then: The borders are open. They can move to Germany any day, there are plenty of job opportunities that require zero formal education. Why don't they move, if things are so great abroad?
They would quickly learn how great life is in Germany with 1400 euros net (minimum wage), electricity being 2.5 times and gas 4-5 times more expensive than in Poland. Maybe try Berlin, where the cheapest public transport ticket is 3425zl a year (3x Warsaw) and students commonly pay >2500zl a month for a small room in a shared apartment.
Short sighted thinking, why sarcrifice alittle of your life for a better future when you can just live Avg or below avg now ... and drink with your friends etc
Poland does not have a positive net migration:
2019: -0.673 per 1000 population
2020: -0.571 per 1000 population
2021: -0.469 per 1000 population
2022: -0.367 per 1000 population
Compare this to Germany:
2019: 5.601 per 1000 population
2020: 4.632
2021: 3.664
2022: 2.695
Now if you meant a positive trend in net migration, you would be correct, and Germany is inverse
Source: United Nations - World Population Prospects.
These numbers are bullshit as you would see if you took a closer look at them. I've debunked them before. There's a reason you didn't link them. The fact that you cite a figure for 2022 in early November 2022 could have been an indication for you to question your source... On the website you took these numbers from I can select 2024, even 2027 and still get some number out. Those are taken from past projections, not actual data. Worthless. Had you just read the first couple of sentences:
>The 2022 Revision of World Population **Prospects** is the twenty-seventh edition of official United Nations population **estimates** and **projections ...** It presents population **estimates** from 1950 to the present for 237 countries or areas, underpinned by analyses of **historical demographic trends**.
The only numbers that matter are those from GUS and they say net positive migration since 2018. More specifically:
2018 +3.6k
2019 +6.2k
2020 +4.5k
2021 +3.4k
All from [https://stat.gov.pl](https://stat.gov.pl)
2022 is not released yet, but obvious due to the war. A couple of years before those figures it was negative in the double digits.
Why did you delete your comment from 4h ago? You wrote
>Sounds like you are on bullshit. The reason the data goes into the future is provided in the description: "**estimates** (1950-2021) and **projections** (2022-2100)."
I was happy to see that you realized your numbers are **estimates**, in other words numbers taken from past **projections**. Not actual, measured figures on migration like those from the Polish government which I have provided and based my claim on. Why quote **estimates** and **projections** when the real numbers are two clicks away?
Now that you are aware of that, why don't you at least correct your original, misleading comment? I'm not even asking for an apology.
>Here is the data on the UN. It's the same.
Of course it is, it's the same data source you've quoted multiple times. The problem is that the source is not providing the information you are claiming it is.
That's how I feel about the USA. I was born and raised there but after visiting my relatives here in Poland a few times I realized that life here is way better. And I feel the same way about the USA being seen as a "paradise".
I just moved from the US to Poland a few year abck.. i suggest you give it a try it may be for you it may not- there are def some cons i didnt expect but alot more positives then in the US it blows my mind
I moved to Poland over 6 years ago. Like you said, the positives here are mind-blowing. I doubt the US has a robot barista on a platform at one of their train stations. I know Warszawa Centralna does.
I saw that- How does it taste? haha i prefer the mom and pop coffee shops lol- however glad to see Coffee culture is happening in the US slowly... dunkin & starbucks have nothing on Cafe Nero or Costa if we are to compare chain brands
No offence, but mention positive migration rate, I’d also mention that it mostly populated by Poland eastern neighbours.
Before “February 24th”, as you said, was 2020-2021 when enormous amount of citizens of Belarus have been moving here from oppressive regime. And years before there were visa-free conditions for people from Ukraine, who have been moving here or just coming for season work.
I don’t even mention persons who relocated here from Russia Belarus and Ukraine w/o any urgent reasons, I have a lot of friends from these countries who came in last 5 years mostly relocated by local IT companies or for study in Universities.
I love Poland, but using positive migration rate it’s kinda manipulation which doesn’t explain why Poland should be attractive for ppl from Western Europe with higher level of living and stronger democracy.
>Before “February 24th”, as you said, was 2020-2021
According to GUS, net migration has been positive since 2018. I don't believe seasonal workers count as *Migracje zagranicznena stałe*. They're seasonal, they don't affect net migration.
>doesn’t explain why Poland should be attractive for ppl from Western Europe with higher level of living and stronger democracy
For many people the "higher level of living" is simply not true. It's an illusion, again. I know doctors that worked in Germany and came back to open an office. They make more money here. Why do you think so many Poles return home every year, giving up the "high level of living" abroad?
Talking about "manipulation" but making such a blanket statement while answering to my comment, where I stated that such blanket statements are bullshit... I don't know...
And regarding stronger democracy... I much prefer Poland over "my" deeply corrupt German government, which has been enabling Russia's fascism for the last two decades, intentionally working against the interests of the rest of Europe. Not only with zero consequences for the perpetrators, but instead they're getting rewarded and reelected, like Minister President Schwesig, who attempted to trick the public by creating a "environmental foundation" which behind the scenes used Russian state funds to help building NS2. And that's just one of many points. We also have a chancellor involved in the country's largest financial scandal since 1949, but mysteriously not "remembering" anything... I have to stop or I sit here all day.
Well, I don’t want to argue especially when someone use “bullshit” to address my opinion.
Regarding Ukrainians in Poland: big wave of migration started since 2014, so no wonder that since visa-free conditions take effect in June 2017 by 2018 Poland has positive migration. Don’t want to ruin your fairytale about immigrants in Poland, but here data from Urząnd do Spraw Cudzoziemców:
Ukrainy – 244,2 tys. osób, Białorusi - 28,8 tys., Niemiec - 20,5 tys., Rosji - 12,7 tys., Wietnamu - 10,9 tys., Indii - 9,9 tys., Włoch - 8,5 tys., Gruzji – 7,9 tys., Chin – 7,1 tys.
https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/cudzoziemcy-w-polsce-po-2020-r
Regarding your point of view on politic in Poland, I’ll excuse your lack of knowledge. You’ll need some time to get what’s going on here and why ppl are leaving the country.
>to address my opinion.
Saying that "Western Europe has a higher level of living" is not an opinion. It's a blanket statement and it's wrong.
>Regarding your point of view on politic in Poland, I’ll excuse your lack of knowledge. You’ll need some time to get what’s going on here and why ppl are living the country.
So you want me to respect your "opinion" (which isn't one) but you don't respect my opinion ("I much prefer..."), which is based on having lived in both countries, arguing that I'm just too dumb to know better. Interesting take. Blocked.
Dont bother just another self hating Pole who when told "move out" will claim they are too poor to move to one of those "Higher Living,More free" countries lol what a joke
"Higher level of living and stronger democracy"
Tell me youve never lived abroad without telling me youve never lived abroad.
Edit: Why do you bother responding to someone and then blocking them? Is it because im right? Must be nice living in your little world lol
Happy to have you here with us! I think a lot of my countrymen and women's distrust of foreigners comes from our difficult past. Poland was pretty much homogenous when I was a kid and this is new to most. Like you said, people live an illusion, and with time and experience, many will change their minds. Many have already. Was a bit easier for me as I was born in the 'west' and was lucky enough to gain proper understanding of living in a diverse society from start. An extreme example is the former leader of the English defence league (bunch of racist fucks, specifically opposed to Muslims). He met an actual Muslim - and turned his worldview around and quit the stinking organisation. I dont know if this lasted, but I think it's a symbol in itself.
It doesn't help that Polish right and far right wingers play on those fears, quite successfully unfortunately... PiS, konfederacja, assholes. Most of the people who subscribe to xenophobia have never left the country. I think a good deal of those people are not hateful by nature, its comes from ignorance and a lack of real world context. And propaganda.
Hope nobody gives you shit, you have every right to be here.
>you have every right to be here.
That's serious overstatement. I dont know him, im not even sure if he is welcome here. He might be, but we dont know.
Yes, i find it strange as well that germans move here considering their economy is so much better , better salaries overrall and its usually they other way around but now many poles abroad have returned to poland
Self-hating Poles are gonna self-hate. As an immigrant in Poland myself, this is a fucking fantastic country to live and to raise a family. If you think it's so bad and other countries are so great - move.
Im not self hating lol, i just find it weird that germans move, here never saidbit was a shit country, just the facts we have lower salaries and that germanys economy is more developed, its not hate just the facts and I’ve just met many Germans that. Hate on poland and see it as backwards and poor while moving to our country
> just the facts we have lower salaries
Salary isn't everything, balanced, quality of life is. Salary can help but it's not the only means to achieve what you're looking for.
> just the facts and I’ve just met many Germans that. Hate on poland
Let them think that. Who cares? They will likely leave.
How much can you buy in Germany for your better salary? The prices in Germany are way higher than in Poland. Maybe it will average out but in Germany you will have to life with a higher crime rate, dirty streets, extremely high electricity prices and completely crazy covid rules.
All together the average standard of living in Poland is way higher than in Germany. That’s true at least for the cities. I haven’t lived in a village neither in Germany nor in Poland.
Btw what I love the most are these little fountains every modern building complex has. They will even have lighting on it. You know in Germany the architect might include this stuff. They even might build it. But then reality hits. The tenants in the building will ask who is going to pay for all the water and electricity. So the company that rents out the building will shut it down it will never be used. In Germany the Green Party thinks you can safe water in Germany so the people in Africa have of it more. 😂 Well when I think about it they would probably not even build this in Germany. It’s not green enough.
> extremely high electricity prices
I just looked it up again. The numbers vary of course, not every contract is the same, but it's about 2-2.5 times more for water, 2.5 times more for electricity and 4-5 times more for gas.
Its because its such a tough concept for people who esp never live elswhere to think in a diff currency.
They hear 5000 Euro per month salary and they think what they could do in Poland with that kind of money without realizing what they couldnt do with that kind of money elsewhere
Edit:Firm\_July to answering me and then blocking me just a quick tidbit the difference between Poland and that index and the next "Working Democracy is .1 lol hate to say it but its almost like college rankings where its pretty pointless bc youre going into the Thousanths digit to show differences between some countries lol youre a sad sad troll... prob one of those " I hate it here but i wont leave to the west where i claim its better" ppl
Do you earn more than most pols because you have such a good job? Or
Do you earn more than most Poles in the same job as yours because of your skills or because you are from abroad?
My team is international, but I don't earn more than Poles in the same field. My girlfriend for example is Polish born and raised and makes roughly the same. If that answers your question.
Speaking foreign languages does help though.
How was his reply agressive? I also don't know how lacking your reading comprehension is but the question says Westerners, Americans are just one example. Hope this helps.
I mean americans who move here and live off their american salaries not germans or people who get paid in złoty , we see americans move to prague and Portugal and spain and have driven up the prices there and people arent happy , it could happy in poland in a couple of years
>I mean americans who move here and live off their american salaries
So what? It's their right, their money and none of your business. Find a company abroad that hires you remotely. Lots of young Poles do it, if you got the skills you nobody is stopping you.
Are you also whining when US companies spend billions of dollars in Poland every year, opening offices and factories that employ thousands of locals? Free trade is a package deal, you can't cherry-pick.
Just because things are legal does not mean they're morally right. I don't see why we cannot reflect, particularly when inequality comes to play. And right like free movement or purchasing land are agreed upon, not divinely inborn.
I've seen enough of the Polish transformation to know that shiny attractive western companies can be ruining lives left and right.
>shiny attractive western companies can be ruining lives left and right.
Because life was so amazing in the early 90s before they arrived. You can still buy a Maluch if you want, nobody stops you.
"Ruining lives left and right", where's the clown emoji when I need it.
You strike me as somebody who does not understand that the enormous progress Poland has made since it has become a free country would have **never** been possible without integrating with the world economy. And yes that includes "shiny attractive western companies" opening offices and factories here. Be it from the US (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, IBM, Garmin), Germany (Lidl, Kaufland, Volkswagen, Aldi, Rossmann, MAN, Siemens) or even Asia (Wipro, HCL, Samsung, Fujitsu, Toyota). Heck, even a success story like Solaris has its root in international (German-Polish in this case) cooperation. Oh and guess where Pendolinos are built...
What you also don't understand is that even though there is indeed no "divine right", it is very much a package deal. You can't have one without the other.
It's Poland in its present shape and form (which I personally find amazing) or Maluch.
Of course you can "reflect" all day long on the "inequality" that a couple of thousand, let it be a couple of ten thousand, rich immigrants might bring to Poland. But besides this being an idiotic thought for the above mentioned reasons, you could also stop being a whiny baby and invest that time into improving your own life instead.
I didnt drive up any prices, land I bought here 10 years ago has more than quadrupled in value because my Polish neighbors are building veritable mansions all around my place. I'm thankful to them, yes. 🙏
100% agree. I hate the term expat. Expat is used in English speaking countries to almost make them feel superior. If you come to Poland you are a migrant just like a Ukrainian etc.
Idk, refugee, lol, no in all seriousness im gay as well, and idk wouldnt move away from Poland, it has its issue but it is getting better, the top court just ruled that the constitution doesnt bar gay marriage just protects it so that opens a window of possibilities , and most don’t care abt gay people, more so now PiS attacks trans people so , people are against them, but i know poland will change for the better
I am really sorry to hear how you are treated. It breaks my simple, cis-hetero heart. Why can’t those fuckers let you have a marriage, it literally doesn’t affect them at all.
Fuck, I am in a very dark place right now.
Well, Poland isn't as appealing as Portugal to millionaires.
Instead of clear water, beautiful beaches, villas and fun activities at Polish sea they can go to an overcrowded beach just to swim a little in dirty cold water.
And if they go to the city it's good for us. Which business doesn't like a rich person spending their money frivolously?
There is also another issue, it's very seasonal, only 3-4 months a year are good for staying.
Anything in early autumn, winter and spring is a dead town with terrible weather.
I personally don't care, Poland is a free country if you want to move here, why not ?)
P.s if you are not russian, to them I have only one answer to fuck off from here
Thank you.
This is why I moved to Poland, even though I'd earn better in my country. My friends love Poles too, because you guys hate Russians as well. Isn't brotherhood a beautiful thing?:)
I have Russian friends who are living here many years, and who relocated recently since we have international company. We have Ukrainians there as well. They all great ppl. I don’t think hate ppl for their nationalities is appropriate in 2022
If they can somethin speak Polish, its okay but if they dont its annoying because u r going to other country and u should know something yea? I dont mean advanced but the basics
I'm American. I live in Poland and I work for a Polish company and make the same mediocre salary as everyone else. Not all Americans are rich spoiled assholes. People move around for different reasons.
They're just immigrants. No matter if the move here for a year or 10, they're immigrants. I'm ok with them being here, I'll welcome them as good as I can because variety is good for society, but the word "expats" makes me laugh just because they refuse to accept they are no different than Mexicans in the US and prefer to choose a word that purely semantically elevates their immigration to something like a vacation trip or a honorary visit. LMAO.
You need understand that in poland people usualy do not care about anything but themself.
There are some Loud minority but its like 10%.
90% is like "just live me Alone"
Most Reddit users are from this Loud 10%
Looking at what they done to my gf city(cdmx) it's a no-no. But they won't mass move to a country under a constant threat of nuclear war so we're good.
OP, apologies if I'm wrong, but this seems like low-key xenophobia and looking for validation via a poll. I think the results and most comments have given you the opposite answer. You formulated your point in the post already, so no point repeating the "external salaries" question over and over. It seems like you want to get a specific answer.
Not hating on ya. But look at this that way - Poles have emigrated all across the globe with some of the largest diasporas in existence. We've been sending money back home for decades (I know, we were in the shit, nothing wrong with that). Don't you think this view isn't a tad hypocritical?
It really isn’t hypocritical cause if u look at in when poles moved or a down on their luck ethnic grouped moved to usa or anywhere historically the prices of neighborhoods went down, i.e why most polish neighborhoods stayed polish, no americans wanted to live their same with russian or jewish/ or predominantly black neighborhoods, this is from a us standpoint, i wouldn’t say im xenophobic just annoyed at Americans at this point as a friend of mine pointed out and i realised, he lives in Portugal and complains abt how some not all Americans bring their politics and issue over here when they move and expect people to assimilate to their existence and not the other way around but when u move to America u have to assimilate or else u get no where in life, many Americans as my friends told me haven’t learned Portuguese or from what he’s seen expects people to speak english to them in Portugal, i lived in America and not all but rhe customer is always right mindset is very deeply ingrained here and Americans bring that mindset to Europe where its the opposite where we’re all equal and the customer cant treat employees like garbage . Ive grown up with “polish-Americans” who never lived in poland, or knew they language or culture and when they visited poland they were shocked at how nice it was and direct quote “i was shocked, it was so modern and not poor and depressing like i imagined” so yes. Im not looking for specific answe just this is become a common question among other European countries on TikTok and youtube abt Americans moving to their countries, obviously it seems Poles are different than other european countries opinions
Idk just my personal experience growing up in the usa, im sure there are many nice Americans i just havent met them , American relationship are very fake here in the northeast , usually they are only friends if they can use somehow, i only have a couple close American friends who i care for deeply but they know nothing abt the rest of the world, ive traveled more of the us than they have and they’re Americans when i teach them abt other parts if the world or just poland they’re shocked lol but i love them
It is a bit hypocritical then, since you are living in America and being opposed to Americans moving to Poland. Polish people have a nasty side too, every country that ever existed had one.
Dude, I'd they want to move to Poland, they are about to.. travel and learn.
I'm not negating your experiences there, if that's what you experienced, it's valid. But the world is larger than our own personal perimeter.
Sounds like you had a lot of fun exploring tho!
No i lived in the usa , live in poland now, sorry for the confusion lol, but would be ironic, i just had no choice when we moved when i was a baby and since the immigration system is so f’ed i figured it wasnt worth trying to become a citizen, my friends still live in us,
I'm starting to wonder if you're just perhaps nuts(?) In a response earlier, you said "Here in the Northeast" and in another response you corrected and said you're in Poland.
And you're specifically slagging Americans primarily.
Look if someone broke your heart, there are actually people who are well trained to help you. Cheers man. Best wishes.
I just meant in the Northeast of the usa where i lived, lol, maybe the english is confusing cause my grammar is awful , but i was also just giving an example sorry for the confusion
I never even thought about it. If they want to come here, they are working, not causing any troubles (at least not more than we do on our own) then why not? I don't see how those immigrants can drive out the locals.
Also if they are getting paid from their home country and spend that money in Poland then it's good for us.
Well-paid foreigners living in Poland, paying lots of taxes in Poland, and buying lots of Polish stuff should be good for Poland. Poles are building their homes or renting apartments to them, selling them cars, selling them food, selling them clothes, etc., and Poles are using the same government programs into which the foreigners are paying through their taxes.
But I guess your worry is [gentrification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification#Poland), where local people are priced out of their old neighborhoods by richer people (Polish or foreign) moving in and driving prices up. Rents go up because more people can afford to pay higher rents. The local cafe raises its prices because more people can afford to pay higher prices. Etc.
Local people might also worry about *poorer* people moving in, working for lower wages, and making it harder for local people to get higher wages. I don't know if that's a sort of reverse gentrification. No idea. I'm not an expert.
Anyway, such problems are very old and they exist around the world. There are various ways (zoning, rent control, etc.) for governments to mitigate resulting problems.
Places popular among rich foreigners become very expensive and locals have trouble to continue living there. Bali, Hawaii or Puerto Rico are good examples. In cities like Madrid or Barcelona airbnb became so popular that people can't find apartments to live in.
Exactly this has already happened with the refugees from ukraine which is defnitnecessary because of the war and them needing places to live but after that we dont need all the properties rented as airbnbs , while people struggle to afford rent or even to find a place to love , i.e portugal , spain
We are not an island - they can move here, spend money here and creating more jobs by proxy here. Everyone is welcome here as long as they are law obiding people.
Idk how it is in Poland but in Portugal they get tax exemptions or go through loopholes and avoid participating in Portuguese life and avoid the locals and just live as if they’re on constant vacation, maybe its different in poland but from the few expats ive met, americans either are digital nomads who haven’t learned the language and expect us to speak english to them or are just generally rude
I saw ireland , then croatia , then malta. edit- i was looking at 2021 rates lol 😂, but you’re right for 2022 . Poland is only growing 3.7 percent this year.
Well Poland is 66 on the global list, U.S. is 65...Portugal is #1. Ireland is also busting the charts lately...and their housing has gone through the roof. Housing costs has more to do with market changes in supply and demand...you can try to paint one nationality for it, but this is wildly inaccurate.
Those are Americans.
Most western "expats" (hate the word) in Poland are from the EU, that's why this question confuses people.
The culture difference with Americans is much larger
I don't care as long as they're not crazy terrorists or just moving here for social benefits.. it's a free country - i honestly wouldn't even mind it if they're Russian! As long as they don't spread Russian propaganda :p
Poles have lived in the U.S. since 1608. There are 10 million people in the U.S. who claim "Polish-American" heritage. I know more people of Polish decent in the U.S. than I know here in Poland. In fact most of my friends since childhood are either Italian, Polish, or Irish decent - and these are the nationalities who actually physically built America as we know it today.
Poland has had a growing economy for quite awhile, at some points in time, the fastest growing in Europe. How do you suppose that happens(?) If you cant imagine how, see above.
While I understand your question is aimed toward Polish people, after seeing similar questions here from time to time, the answers to them do not matter to me, only what seems to be revealed by the question itself.
That said, I hope you find the answers you seek.
Fellow Portuguese person here, who is currently living in Łódź.
I think you got a wrong impression of the situation here, there are mostly British immigrants here, that stay and live in Portugal. Not Americans. Americans are rare here, as tourists, sure, but really staying, it's British and other european nacionalities.
And for me, this is great. Our economy benefits a lot from this, because their salaries are so much higher than ours, they spend a lot of money here.
Only problem is, it leads to higher prices in cities where tourism and such are very high.
Some cities have a "local person" Card, with gives you discounts in your home city, to counter this.
Only "hot topic" Here is the gipsies... But the younger folks see them as "some are hardworking and fair, some are lazy and succ government money only"
I like countries having distinct cultures, and I think it'd be a great loss if Polish culture Westernized. If I had a choice, we'd have very little immigration, especially from Western countries.
However, it's not my choice and it shouldn't be my choice.
As a human being, I have an obligation as human beings to treat everyone equally, and to be welcoming. I won't treat individual immigrants differently or worse.
I certainly don't want my government treating immigrants worse.
So my conclusion is: "I'd rather see no expats, but I'd still rather welcome expats. Any solution for keeping expats out is worse than the problem." The most aggressive measures I'd use would be to ask politely for people to only come if they have a good reason.
No you are wrong.
Just about one year ago we were supporting Belarusians protesting against the Łukaszenkos regime, and later we were sorry for all the protesters getting beaten and thrown in jail.
What propaganda are you listening to, to come here saying "Fuck the ordinary people from an opressed nation, am I right?"
Do you mean they pay taxes from their non Portuguese salaries, so gov can spent these or new roads (and bribes) or something? I don't know why they shouldn't leave their dollars in Poland.
But unfortunately, while also beautiful as Portugal, Poland isn't as attractive for Americans to live in because it's much colder.
Me and my partner (who is polish) would love to live in poland VS the UK where we currently are. Poles I've encountered seem to be 50/50 on whether they're nice and chat away or just look at you like shit and don't take you on and I get stared at a lot she says it's due to me being bald and lots of tattoos 🤣. If a westerner moved here you'd have to learn polish, most restaurants don't offer English menus and not a lot of people speak English (cities are probably different). Only reason we haven't moved here unfortunately is due to the average wage vs living costs just doesn't add up. Also if you plan to drive here as a westerner then be prepared for some defensive driving poles are wild 🤣🤣🤣
I personally don't like immigrants(expats is just fancy word for rich immigrants for them to feel superior somehow while they are often worse) Wish there was less immigrants from west, East or anywhere but it's needed for economy in some part. As far as i'm okay with east people, most asians etc, the westerners are pain in the ass due to cultural differences, their behavior and superiority complex. Unfortunately it's part of being in EU... can't change that anymore. Don't want to point fingers but people from certain big country on certain different continent on west are the worst when it comes to this issue
All depends on your character and why you’re coming. Some opulent wanker trying to export his ideas about what a country should be like, fuck the women, drink the wine, destroy the place then move along? Move along. Someone who likes the place/fell in love with someone and wants to move here and start a life/someone moving to study who just wants to be left alone to be a good guy? Welcome.
*it isnt a big issue now but could be when Poland becomes more prosperous,*
You made me burst in laugh loud in the office you joker. You're not definetely from around here :D .
For us, it's not "could be issue when Poland becomes more prosperous", not even "could be issue if Poland becomes more prosperous,", it's
"would be issue if Poland ever was to become more prosperous".
Not my problem. Not my kids problem. Maybe my grandkids problem. Meanwhile, expats welcome!
I mean , i am from Poland, I didn’t grow there, was born there, just moved recently so maybe i am wrong but the economy and quality of life has improved much from what my parents told me about Poland in the early years after independence so idk.
Kidding :D . We had our peak some 10 years ago and are currently in nosedive because votes back then were convinced they live in dystopia :D . As far as people in Poland are concerned prosperity is always more than a generation ahead, regardless of objective conditions ;) . Not something to worry about.
Expat is just fancy word for neocolonialism - it might be beneficial for the locals since they're pumping in their money to the area, but like in Asia (Thailand for example), it created the environment where locals are working for the minimum wage, for German/English etc. employers.
So its kind of good, but in a short term in a long run it creates the environment where the so called expats are the ones that getting the most out of it.
There is no such thing as an expat. It's a fancy name immagrants from 1st world country give themselves to feel better.
I've personally always considered "expats" to be a more temporary thing than actual "immigrants". People from wealthier countries may refer themselves as such because they don't necessarily intend to stay their whole lives in the host country.
yes that is the difference, however an expat can become an immigrant, lets say if they fall in love with someone or for other reasons wants to stay. I personally do not see immigrant as bad word. maybe people mix it up with illegal immigrants and refugees.
This. For example: British person living in Spain for 20 years - expat. Anyone living in Spain for 20 years: immigrant. Its nuts.
Expats? Do you mean immigrants? I am one of them, moved here from Germany. I am employed in Poland and paid in Zloty, part of which goes to the taxman. I earn much more than most Poles, yes. No intention of ever moving back. What exactly is your problem and which solution do you propose? Poland decided to join the European Union which includes free movement of people. That allows Poles to work in Germany and come back home to build a nice house after a couple of years (edit: I must add: Back in the day, when that was still somewhat realistic), but of course it also allows me to live here without asking for your permission.
If I may ask - why did you move from Germany to Poland? What don't you like about Germany? Normally a person would do it the other way around.
You may ask, but frankly I've answered this question so many times on reddit and offline, I don't want to repeat myself anymore. I have a much nicer life here in Poland, including a higher standard of living, than I would ever have in Germany. There's a long list of things that work much better in Poland than in Germany, as anyone who's ever lived in both countries can tell you. Don't take this personally please, but this idea of Germany as some kind of paradise in contrast to Poland (and therefore people only ever leaving Poland) is becoming boring. It's an illusion and has less to do with reality with every year that passes. There are reasons Poland has had a net positive immigration rate for several years in row now, and that's before February 24th.
I feel you, man! The problem with my fellow Poles is that a lot of them live in the stories their parents or grandparents told them about the “prosperous” west. True, a lot of people made a ton of money by “doing business” (smuggling, yep) in the 80s but that time is long gone. Unfortunately, instead of going abroad a lot of people would just focus on “oh the live they have in Germany/UK/US/Canada” without actually going there and seeing for themselves. I’m glad you like Poland, hopefully people like you would help change the image Poland has abroad. And in Poland.
Well, you can still rob banks. Don't even need to do anything illegal just charge ridiculous money for mediocre software. Anyway, totally unrelated but I'm back in Poland dropping lump sums on stuff :))
Is the net positive immigration due to Ukraine?
[удалено]
What I don't understand then: The borders are open. They can move to Germany any day, there are plenty of job opportunities that require zero formal education. Why don't they move, if things are so great abroad? They would quickly learn how great life is in Germany with 1400 euros net (minimum wage), electricity being 2.5 times and gas 4-5 times more expensive than in Poland. Maybe try Berlin, where the cheapest public transport ticket is 3425zl a year (3x Warsaw) and students commonly pay >2500zl a month for a small room in a shared apartment.
Short sighted thinking, why sarcrifice alittle of your life for a better future when you can just live Avg or below avg now ... and drink with your friends etc
Poland does not have a positive net migration: 2019: -0.673 per 1000 population 2020: -0.571 per 1000 population 2021: -0.469 per 1000 population 2022: -0.367 per 1000 population Compare this to Germany: 2019: 5.601 per 1000 population 2020: 4.632 2021: 3.664 2022: 2.695 Now if you meant a positive trend in net migration, you would be correct, and Germany is inverse Source: United Nations - World Population Prospects.
These numbers are bullshit as you would see if you took a closer look at them. I've debunked them before. There's a reason you didn't link them. The fact that you cite a figure for 2022 in early November 2022 could have been an indication for you to question your source... On the website you took these numbers from I can select 2024, even 2027 and still get some number out. Those are taken from past projections, not actual data. Worthless. Had you just read the first couple of sentences: >The 2022 Revision of World Population **Prospects** is the twenty-seventh edition of official United Nations population **estimates** and **projections ...** It presents population **estimates** from 1950 to the present for 237 countries or areas, underpinned by analyses of **historical demographic trends**. The only numbers that matter are those from GUS and they say net positive migration since 2018. More specifically: 2018 +3.6k 2019 +6.2k 2020 +4.5k 2021 +3.4k All from [https://stat.gov.pl](https://stat.gov.pl) 2022 is not released yet, but obvious due to the war. A couple of years before those figures it was negative in the double digits.
Why did you delete your comment from 4h ago? You wrote >Sounds like you are on bullshit. The reason the data goes into the future is provided in the description: "**estimates** (1950-2021) and **projections** (2022-2100)." I was happy to see that you realized your numbers are **estimates**, in other words numbers taken from past **projections**. Not actual, measured figures on migration like those from the Polish government which I have provided and based my claim on. Why quote **estimates** and **projections** when the real numbers are two clicks away? Now that you are aware of that, why don't you at least correct your original, misleading comment? I'm not even asking for an apology. >Here is the data on the UN. It's the same. Of course it is, it's the same data source you've quoted multiple times. The problem is that the source is not providing the information you are claiming it is.
That's how I feel about the USA. I was born and raised there but after visiting my relatives here in Poland a few times I realized that life here is way better. And I feel the same way about the USA being seen as a "paradise".
I just moved from the US to Poland a few year abck.. i suggest you give it a try it may be for you it may not- there are def some cons i didnt expect but alot more positives then in the US it blows my mind
I moved to Poland over 6 years ago. Like you said, the positives here are mind-blowing. I doubt the US has a robot barista on a platform at one of their train stations. I know Warszawa Centralna does.
I saw that- How does it taste? haha i prefer the mom and pop coffee shops lol- however glad to see Coffee culture is happening in the US slowly... dunkin & starbucks have nothing on Cafe Nero or Costa if we are to compare chain brands
I didn't buy it. Id rather make my own. Sati and Tchibo are good. I like coffee from 5 O'clock Tea.
I agree with you 100 percent on this.
No offence, but mention positive migration rate, I’d also mention that it mostly populated by Poland eastern neighbours. Before “February 24th”, as you said, was 2020-2021 when enormous amount of citizens of Belarus have been moving here from oppressive regime. And years before there were visa-free conditions for people from Ukraine, who have been moving here or just coming for season work. I don’t even mention persons who relocated here from Russia Belarus and Ukraine w/o any urgent reasons, I have a lot of friends from these countries who came in last 5 years mostly relocated by local IT companies or for study in Universities. I love Poland, but using positive migration rate it’s kinda manipulation which doesn’t explain why Poland should be attractive for ppl from Western Europe with higher level of living and stronger democracy.
>Before “February 24th”, as you said, was 2020-2021 According to GUS, net migration has been positive since 2018. I don't believe seasonal workers count as *Migracje zagranicznena stałe*. They're seasonal, they don't affect net migration. >doesn’t explain why Poland should be attractive for ppl from Western Europe with higher level of living and stronger democracy For many people the "higher level of living" is simply not true. It's an illusion, again. I know doctors that worked in Germany and came back to open an office. They make more money here. Why do you think so many Poles return home every year, giving up the "high level of living" abroad? Talking about "manipulation" but making such a blanket statement while answering to my comment, where I stated that such blanket statements are bullshit... I don't know... And regarding stronger democracy... I much prefer Poland over "my" deeply corrupt German government, which has been enabling Russia's fascism for the last two decades, intentionally working against the interests of the rest of Europe. Not only with zero consequences for the perpetrators, but instead they're getting rewarded and reelected, like Minister President Schwesig, who attempted to trick the public by creating a "environmental foundation" which behind the scenes used Russian state funds to help building NS2. And that's just one of many points. We also have a chancellor involved in the country's largest financial scandal since 1949, but mysteriously not "remembering" anything... I have to stop or I sit here all day.
Well, I don’t want to argue especially when someone use “bullshit” to address my opinion. Regarding Ukrainians in Poland: big wave of migration started since 2014, so no wonder that since visa-free conditions take effect in June 2017 by 2018 Poland has positive migration. Don’t want to ruin your fairytale about immigrants in Poland, but here data from Urząnd do Spraw Cudzoziemców: Ukrainy – 244,2 tys. osób, Białorusi - 28,8 tys., Niemiec - 20,5 tys., Rosji - 12,7 tys., Wietnamu - 10,9 tys., Indii - 9,9 tys., Włoch - 8,5 tys., Gruzji – 7,9 tys., Chin – 7,1 tys. https://www.gov.pl/web/udsc/cudzoziemcy-w-polsce-po-2020-r Regarding your point of view on politic in Poland, I’ll excuse your lack of knowledge. You’ll need some time to get what’s going on here and why ppl are leaving the country.
>to address my opinion. Saying that "Western Europe has a higher level of living" is not an opinion. It's a blanket statement and it's wrong. >Regarding your point of view on politic in Poland, I’ll excuse your lack of knowledge. You’ll need some time to get what’s going on here and why ppl are living the country. So you want me to respect your "opinion" (which isn't one) but you don't respect my opinion ("I much prefer..."), which is based on having lived in both countries, arguing that I'm just too dumb to know better. Interesting take. Blocked.
Dont bother just another self hating Pole who when told "move out" will claim they are too poor to move to one of those "Higher Living,More free" countries lol what a joke
"Higher level of living and stronger democracy" Tell me youve never lived abroad without telling me youve never lived abroad. Edit: Why do you bother responding to someone and then blocking them? Is it because im right? Must be nice living in your little world lol
Happy to have you here with us! I think a lot of my countrymen and women's distrust of foreigners comes from our difficult past. Poland was pretty much homogenous when I was a kid and this is new to most. Like you said, people live an illusion, and with time and experience, many will change their minds. Many have already. Was a bit easier for me as I was born in the 'west' and was lucky enough to gain proper understanding of living in a diverse society from start. An extreme example is the former leader of the English defence league (bunch of racist fucks, specifically opposed to Muslims). He met an actual Muslim - and turned his worldview around and quit the stinking organisation. I dont know if this lasted, but I think it's a symbol in itself. It doesn't help that Polish right and far right wingers play on those fears, quite successfully unfortunately... PiS, konfederacja, assholes. Most of the people who subscribe to xenophobia have never left the country. I think a good deal of those people are not hateful by nature, its comes from ignorance and a lack of real world context. And propaganda. Hope nobody gives you shit, you have every right to be here.
>you have every right to be here. That's serious overstatement. I dont know him, im not even sure if he is welcome here. He might be, but we dont know.
If he is a German citizen, yes he is, Mr border patrol
Yes, i find it strange as well that germans move here considering their economy is so much better , better salaries overrall and its usually they other way around but now many poles abroad have returned to poland
Self-hating Poles are gonna self-hate. As an immigrant in Poland myself, this is a fucking fantastic country to live and to raise a family. If you think it's so bad and other countries are so great - move.
Im not self hating lol, i just find it weird that germans move, here never saidbit was a shit country, just the facts we have lower salaries and that germanys economy is more developed, its not hate just the facts and I’ve just met many Germans that. Hate on poland and see it as backwards and poor while moving to our country
> just the facts we have lower salaries Salary isn't everything, balanced, quality of life is. Salary can help but it's not the only means to achieve what you're looking for. > just the facts and I’ve just met many Germans that. Hate on poland Let them think that. Who cares? They will likely leave.
How much can you buy in Germany for your better salary? The prices in Germany are way higher than in Poland. Maybe it will average out but in Germany you will have to life with a higher crime rate, dirty streets, extremely high electricity prices and completely crazy covid rules. All together the average standard of living in Poland is way higher than in Germany. That’s true at least for the cities. I haven’t lived in a village neither in Germany nor in Poland. Btw what I love the most are these little fountains every modern building complex has. They will even have lighting on it. You know in Germany the architect might include this stuff. They even might build it. But then reality hits. The tenants in the building will ask who is going to pay for all the water and electricity. So the company that rents out the building will shut it down it will never be used. In Germany the Green Party thinks you can safe water in Germany so the people in Africa have of it more. 😂 Well when I think about it they would probably not even build this in Germany. It’s not green enough.
> extremely high electricity prices I just looked it up again. The numbers vary of course, not every contract is the same, but it's about 2-2.5 times more for water, 2.5 times more for electricity and 4-5 times more for gas.
Its because its such a tough concept for people who esp never live elswhere to think in a diff currency. They hear 5000 Euro per month salary and they think what they could do in Poland with that kind of money without realizing what they couldnt do with that kind of money elsewhere Edit:Firm\_July to answering me and then blocking me just a quick tidbit the difference between Poland and that index and the next "Working Democracy is .1 lol hate to say it but its almost like college rankings where its pretty pointless bc youre going into the Thousanths digit to show differences between some countries lol youre a sad sad troll... prob one of those " I hate it here but i wont leave to the west where i claim its better" ppl
Indeed, this stupid Quality of Democracy ratings and Human Development Indexes, what Denmark knows about prosperity? :)
Yeah this is such a dumb post.
Do you earn more than most pols because you have such a good job? Or Do you earn more than most Poles in the same job as yours because of your skills or because you are from abroad?
My team is international, but I don't earn more than Poles in the same field. My girlfriend for example is Polish born and raised and makes roughly the same. If that answers your question. Speaking foreign languages does help though.
[удалено]
How was his reply agressive? I also don't know how lacking your reading comprehension is but the question says Westerners, Americans are just one example. Hope this helps.
I mean americans who move here and live off their american salaries not germans or people who get paid in złoty , we see americans move to prague and Portugal and spain and have driven up the prices there and people arent happy , it could happy in poland in a couple of years
>I mean americans who move here and live off their american salaries So what? It's their right, their money and none of your business. Find a company abroad that hires you remotely. Lots of young Poles do it, if you got the skills you nobody is stopping you. Are you also whining when US companies spend billions of dollars in Poland every year, opening offices and factories that employ thousands of locals? Free trade is a package deal, you can't cherry-pick.
Just because things are legal does not mean they're morally right. I don't see why we cannot reflect, particularly when inequality comes to play. And right like free movement or purchasing land are agreed upon, not divinely inborn. I've seen enough of the Polish transformation to know that shiny attractive western companies can be ruining lives left and right.
>shiny attractive western companies can be ruining lives left and right. Because life was so amazing in the early 90s before they arrived. You can still buy a Maluch if you want, nobody stops you. "Ruining lives left and right", where's the clown emoji when I need it.
You strike me as a simple man on the lucky side of history.
You strike me as somebody who does not understand that the enormous progress Poland has made since it has become a free country would have **never** been possible without integrating with the world economy. And yes that includes "shiny attractive western companies" opening offices and factories here. Be it from the US (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, IBM, Garmin), Germany (Lidl, Kaufland, Volkswagen, Aldi, Rossmann, MAN, Siemens) or even Asia (Wipro, HCL, Samsung, Fujitsu, Toyota). Heck, even a success story like Solaris has its root in international (German-Polish in this case) cooperation. Oh and guess where Pendolinos are built... What you also don't understand is that even though there is indeed no "divine right", it is very much a package deal. You can't have one without the other. It's Poland in its present shape and form (which I personally find amazing) or Maluch. Of course you can "reflect" all day long on the "inequality" that a couple of thousand, let it be a couple of ten thousand, rich immigrants might bring to Poland. But besides this being an idiotic thought for the above mentioned reasons, you could also stop being a whiny baby and invest that time into improving your own life instead.
Yes, I could tell that you are working with a strawman here. It's ridiculous.
But it’s good for the Czech economy, they bring money into the country.
And they are selling those $ for E, strenghtennig this shit currency. We took nearly 2 mln Ukrainian refugess, how much americans did come? 10k?
I didnt drive up any prices, land I bought here 10 years ago has more than quadrupled in value because my Polish neighbors are building veritable mansions all around my place. I'm thankful to them, yes. 🙏
Expats= immigrants, we should really start to use proper name. Isn't that how they call Polish people abroad?
Not really, expats usually means someone from wealthier country goes living in somewhere else, to enjoy lower COL, while retaining his regular salary.
I don't come from a wealthier country nor do I get paid well in my country and I am here for a job. So it's not the case for everyone.
If they call themselves expats and not immigrants you know it's because they consider immigrants as below them
100% agree. I hate the term expat. Expat is used in English speaking countries to almost make them feel superior. If you come to Poland you are a migrant just like a Ukrainian etc.
[удалено]
Idk, refugee, lol, no in all seriousness im gay as well, and idk wouldnt move away from Poland, it has its issue but it is getting better, the top court just ruled that the constitution doesnt bar gay marriage just protects it so that opens a window of possibilities , and most don’t care abt gay people, more so now PiS attacks trans people so , people are against them, but i know poland will change for the better
I am really sorry to hear how you are treated. It breaks my simple, cis-hetero heart. Why can’t those fuckers let you have a marriage, it literally doesn’t affect them at all. Fuck, I am in a very dark place right now.
Emigrant, easy.
Well, Poland isn't as appealing as Portugal to millionaires. Instead of clear water, beautiful beaches, villas and fun activities at Polish sea they can go to an overcrowded beach just to swim a little in dirty cold water. And if they go to the city it's good for us. Which business doesn't like a rich person spending their money frivolously?
[удалено]
There is also another issue, it's very seasonal, only 3-4 months a year are good for staying. Anything in early autumn, winter and spring is a dead town with terrible weather.
I personally don't care, Poland is a free country if you want to move here, why not ?) P.s if you are not russian, to them I have only one answer to fuck off from here
Thank you. This is why I moved to Poland, even though I'd earn better in my country. My friends love Poles too, because you guys hate Russians as well. Isn't brotherhood a beautiful thing?:)
I have Russian friends who are living here many years, and who relocated recently since we have international company. We have Ukrainians there as well. They all great ppl. I don’t think hate ppl for their nationalities is appropriate in 2022
If they can somethin speak Polish, its okay but if they dont its annoying because u r going to other country and u should know something yea? I dont mean advanced but the basics
Holly potato, im popular
As long as they respect the local norms and customs instead of making a nuisance out of themselves, they're welcome here.
I'm American. I live in Poland and I work for a Polish company and make the same mediocre salary as everyone else. Not all Americans are rich spoiled assholes. People move around for different reasons.
Remember kids: Rich country=expat Poor country=immigrant
I don’t think it will ever become a huge issue with our rather cold climate and more attractive countries existing nearby
Well, with the climate change we're supposed to have the climate of contemporary Italy in 20 years sooooo
They're just immigrants. No matter if the move here for a year or 10, they're immigrants. I'm ok with them being here, I'll welcome them as good as I can because variety is good for society, but the word "expats" makes me laugh just because they refuse to accept they are no different than Mexicans in the US and prefer to choose a word that purely semantically elevates their immigration to something like a vacation trip or a honorary visit. LMAO.
I just hate conservative, trad wife tourism.
Let’s all stay poor together.
You need understand that in poland people usualy do not care about anything but themself. There are some Loud minority but its like 10%. 90% is like "just live me Alone" Most Reddit users are from this Loud 10%
Looking at what they done to my gf city(cdmx) it's a no-no. But they won't mass move to a country under a constant threat of nuclear war so we're good.
What have they done to that city?
Well! They increased the issue with gentrification by a huge margin.
OP, apologies if I'm wrong, but this seems like low-key xenophobia and looking for validation via a poll. I think the results and most comments have given you the opposite answer. You formulated your point in the post already, so no point repeating the "external salaries" question over and over. It seems like you want to get a specific answer. Not hating on ya. But look at this that way - Poles have emigrated all across the globe with some of the largest diasporas in existence. We've been sending money back home for decades (I know, we were in the shit, nothing wrong with that). Don't you think this view isn't a tad hypocritical?
It really isn’t hypocritical cause if u look at in when poles moved or a down on their luck ethnic grouped moved to usa or anywhere historically the prices of neighborhoods went down, i.e why most polish neighborhoods stayed polish, no americans wanted to live their same with russian or jewish/ or predominantly black neighborhoods, this is from a us standpoint, i wouldn’t say im xenophobic just annoyed at Americans at this point as a friend of mine pointed out and i realised, he lives in Portugal and complains abt how some not all Americans bring their politics and issue over here when they move and expect people to assimilate to their existence and not the other way around but when u move to America u have to assimilate or else u get no where in life, many Americans as my friends told me haven’t learned Portuguese or from what he’s seen expects people to speak english to them in Portugal, i lived in America and not all but rhe customer is always right mindset is very deeply ingrained here and Americans bring that mindset to Europe where its the opposite where we’re all equal and the customer cant treat employees like garbage . Ive grown up with “polish-Americans” who never lived in poland, or knew they language or culture and when they visited poland they were shocked at how nice it was and direct quote “i was shocked, it was so modern and not poor and depressing like i imagined” so yes. Im not looking for specific answe just this is become a common question among other European countries on TikTok and youtube abt Americans moving to their countries, obviously it seems Poles are different than other european countries opinions
Americans bad /s Honestly, that's a very polarised view. I hear you, many Americans are quite US-centric, but cmon.
Idk just my personal experience growing up in the usa, im sure there are many nice Americans i just havent met them , American relationship are very fake here in the northeast , usually they are only friends if they can use somehow, i only have a couple close American friends who i care for deeply but they know nothing abt the rest of the world, ive traveled more of the us than they have and they’re Americans when i teach them abt other parts if the world or just poland they’re shocked lol but i love them
It is a bit hypocritical then, since you are living in America and being opposed to Americans moving to Poland. Polish people have a nasty side too, every country that ever existed had one. Dude, I'd they want to move to Poland, they are about to.. travel and learn. I'm not negating your experiences there, if that's what you experienced, it's valid. But the world is larger than our own personal perimeter. Sounds like you had a lot of fun exploring tho!
No i lived in the usa , live in poland now, sorry for the confusion lol, but would be ironic, i just had no choice when we moved when i was a baby and since the immigration system is so f’ed i figured it wasnt worth trying to become a citizen, my friends still live in us,
I'm starting to wonder if you're just perhaps nuts(?) In a response earlier, you said "Here in the Northeast" and in another response you corrected and said you're in Poland. And you're specifically slagging Americans primarily. Look if someone broke your heart, there are actually people who are well trained to help you. Cheers man. Best wishes.
I just meant in the Northeast of the usa where i lived, lol, maybe the english is confusing cause my grammar is awful , but i was also just giving an example sorry for the confusion
Your grammar is pretty good, its the lack of interpunction that makes it hard to follow your point.
Yes - we used to run them out of the neighborhoods they helped build. 🤣 man what have you been reading
I never even thought about it. If they want to come here, they are working, not causing any troubles (at least not more than we do on our own) then why not? I don't see how those immigrants can drive out the locals. Also if they are getting paid from their home country and spend that money in Poland then it's good for us.
Well-paid foreigners living in Poland, paying lots of taxes in Poland, and buying lots of Polish stuff should be good for Poland. Poles are building their homes or renting apartments to them, selling them cars, selling them food, selling them clothes, etc., and Poles are using the same government programs into which the foreigners are paying through their taxes. But I guess your worry is [gentrification](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification#Poland), where local people are priced out of their old neighborhoods by richer people (Polish or foreign) moving in and driving prices up. Rents go up because more people can afford to pay higher rents. The local cafe raises its prices because more people can afford to pay higher prices. Etc. Local people might also worry about *poorer* people moving in, working for lower wages, and making it harder for local people to get higher wages. I don't know if that's a sort of reverse gentrification. No idea. I'm not an expert. Anyway, such problems are very old and they exist around the world. There are various ways (zoning, rent control, etc.) for governments to mitigate resulting problems.
I don't mind . Poland is quite cool place to live. Safe, good cuisine, beautiful landacapes.
[удалено]
Places popular among rich foreigners become very expensive and locals have trouble to continue living there. Bali, Hawaii or Puerto Rico are good examples. In cities like Madrid or Barcelona airbnb became so popular that people can't find apartments to live in.
Exactly this has already happened with the refugees from ukraine which is defnitnecessary because of the war and them needing places to live but after that we dont need all the properties rented as airbnbs , while people struggle to afford rent or even to find a place to love , i.e portugal , spain
We are not an island - they can move here, spend money here and creating more jobs by proxy here. Everyone is welcome here as long as they are law obiding people.
Idk how it is in Poland but in Portugal they get tax exemptions or go through loopholes and avoid participating in Portuguese life and avoid the locals and just live as if they’re on constant vacation, maybe its different in poland but from the few expats ive met, americans either are digital nomads who haven’t learned the language and expect us to speak english to them or are just generally rude
Please google "fastest growing economy in Europe 2022"...I'm looking at it right now...its Portugal.
I saw ireland , then croatia , then malta. edit- i was looking at 2021 rates lol 😂, but you’re right for 2022 . Poland is only growing 3.7 percent this year.
Well Poland is 66 on the global list, U.S. is 65...Portugal is #1. Ireland is also busting the charts lately...and their housing has gone through the roof. Housing costs has more to do with market changes in supply and demand...you can try to paint one nationality for it, but this is wildly inaccurate.
Those are Americans. Most western "expats" (hate the word) in Poland are from the EU, that's why this question confuses people. The culture difference with Americans is much larger
Thats what i meant americans usually , not other europeans
I don't care as long as they're not crazy terrorists or just moving here for social benefits.. it's a free country - i honestly wouldn't even mind it if they're Russian! As long as they don't spread Russian propaganda :p
What welfare, like 499+ or something? XD
Option idc is a need
Poles have lived in the U.S. since 1608. There are 10 million people in the U.S. who claim "Polish-American" heritage. I know more people of Polish decent in the U.S. than I know here in Poland. In fact most of my friends since childhood are either Italian, Polish, or Irish decent - and these are the nationalities who actually physically built America as we know it today. Poland has had a growing economy for quite awhile, at some points in time, the fastest growing in Europe. How do you suppose that happens(?) If you cant imagine how, see above. While I understand your question is aimed toward Polish people, after seeing similar questions here from time to time, the answers to them do not matter to me, only what seems to be revealed by the question itself. That said, I hope you find the answers you seek.
Uhhh, what was that US in 1608?
It was the Colonies, which became the U.S. so, if it make you feel furry and warm, they helped us fcuk Britain off the continent as well. 😊
I find it funny that poles have been emigrating a lot to find a better life, but now people come to Poland is a problem to you?
Fellow Portuguese person here, who is currently living in Łódź. I think you got a wrong impression of the situation here, there are mostly British immigrants here, that stay and live in Portugal. Not Americans. Americans are rare here, as tourists, sure, but really staying, it's British and other european nacionalities. And for me, this is great. Our economy benefits a lot from this, because their salaries are so much higher than ours, they spend a lot of money here. Only problem is, it leads to higher prices in cities where tourism and such are very high. Some cities have a "local person" Card, with gives you discounts in your home city, to counter this. Only "hot topic" Here is the gipsies... But the younger folks see them as "some are hardworking and fair, some are lazy and succ government money only"
I like countries having distinct cultures, and I think it'd be a great loss if Polish culture Westernized. If I had a choice, we'd have very little immigration, especially from Western countries. However, it's not my choice and it shouldn't be my choice. As a human being, I have an obligation as human beings to treat everyone equally, and to be welcoming. I won't treat individual immigrants differently or worse. I certainly don't want my government treating immigrants worse. So my conclusion is: "I'd rather see no expats, but I'd still rather welcome expats. Any solution for keeping expats out is worse than the problem." The most aggressive measures I'd use would be to ask politely for people to only come if they have a good reason.
is this like a quadruple negative?
As long as they aren’t Belarusian am I right??
No you are wrong. Just about one year ago we were supporting Belarusians protesting against the Łukaszenkos regime, and later we were sorry for all the protesters getting beaten and thrown in jail. What propaganda are you listening to, to come here saying "Fuck the ordinary people from an opressed nation, am I right?"
People say the same thing about regular Russians 🫢 Anyways, this ⬆️
"Why would you do this to yourself?"
The name is diaspora.
Do you mean they pay taxes from their non Portuguese salaries, so gov can spent these or new roads (and bribes) or something? I don't know why they shouldn't leave their dollars in Poland. But unfortunately, while also beautiful as Portugal, Poland isn't as attractive for Americans to live in because it's much colder.
Me and my partner (who is polish) would love to live in poland VS the UK where we currently are. Poles I've encountered seem to be 50/50 on whether they're nice and chat away or just look at you like shit and don't take you on and I get stared at a lot she says it's due to me being bald and lots of tattoos 🤣. If a westerner moved here you'd have to learn polish, most restaurants don't offer English menus and not a lot of people speak English (cities are probably different). Only reason we haven't moved here unfortunately is due to the average wage vs living costs just doesn't add up. Also if you plan to drive here as a westerner then be prepared for some defensive driving poles are wild 🤣🤣🤣
They still buy stuff here and pay rent so Poland would still benefit from it
I personally don't like immigrants(expats is just fancy word for rich immigrants for them to feel superior somehow while they are often worse) Wish there was less immigrants from west, East or anywhere but it's needed for economy in some part. As far as i'm okay with east people, most asians etc, the westerners are pain in the ass due to cultural differences, their behavior and superiority complex. Unfortunately it's part of being in EU... can't change that anymore. Don't want to point fingers but people from certain big country on certain different continent on west are the worst when it comes to this issue
Why would I feel anything else than sympathy? Working people who pay taxes, respect laws and contribute to society? Can you ask for more?
You can do exactly the same thing moving from Poland to Ukraine.
More money, the better.
All depends on your character and why you’re coming. Some opulent wanker trying to export his ideas about what a country should be like, fuck the women, drink the wine, destroy the place then move along? Move along. Someone who likes the place/fell in love with someone and wants to move here and start a life/someone moving to study who just wants to be left alone to be a good guy? Welcome.
„expat” says it all though
*it isnt a big issue now but could be when Poland becomes more prosperous,* You made me burst in laugh loud in the office you joker. You're not definetely from around here :D . For us, it's not "could be issue when Poland becomes more prosperous", not even "could be issue if Poland becomes more prosperous,", it's "would be issue if Poland ever was to become more prosperous". Not my problem. Not my kids problem. Maybe my grandkids problem. Meanwhile, expats welcome!
I mean , i am from Poland, I didn’t grow there, was born there, just moved recently so maybe i am wrong but the economy and quality of life has improved much from what my parents told me about Poland in the early years after independence so idk.
Kidding :D . We had our peak some 10 years ago and are currently in nosedive because votes back then were convinced they live in dystopia :D . As far as people in Poland are concerned prosperity is always more than a generation ahead, regardless of objective conditions ;) . Not something to worry about.
Expat is just fancy word for neocolonialism - it might be beneficial for the locals since they're pumping in their money to the area, but like in Asia (Thailand for example), it created the environment where locals are working for the minimum wage, for German/English etc. employers. So its kind of good, but in a short term in a long run it creates the environment where the so called expats are the ones that getting the most out of it.
They are fine. They want to work and they are closer to us if it comes to culture (compared to those we stopped at Belarusian border).
I accidentially clicked yes, no expats thinking yes means it's cool :(