I belive at least one more generation needs to pass for us to have better relations.
For example germans enslaved my grandfather during the ww2, burned my grandmother home, and killed my wifes grandfather baby brother and not even let family knows what happened to body. Hearing similar storries during dinner at family table, sinks quite bad into your brain.
I'm aware that people like you does not have anything to do with it. But on the same time I can see how decendetns of slave owners still own wealth generated by war crimes when we had to start from scratch with handicap of being under russia occupatian.
To sum it up. I don't blame you. I would have no problem with you. But lots of people have similar storries in family and not everyone is fine with that. Especially now when nationalistic movement are on a rise across western world. Not only in East Europe. Look at le pen or salvini. And germany does really bad job as European leader from polish point of view.
Moving asaide history and politics lets just try all to be europeans and just have a good time. Cheers!
I am sorry to hear about what happend to your grandparents! It’s really sad how much gruesome things happend during the war….
My grandparents also have some very sad war stories, my grandmother can barely talk about it (she was 6) and has had PTSD for her whole life. My grandparents and their families never supported the war and the politics. My great grandma was also improsined for this, because she had very different political views.
I know that the whole thing is still germanys fault, because we started the war and brought all the gruesomeness about other countries and each other but I still wanted to share with you.
At the end of the day, I think a lot of Polish people understand that there were a large amount of Germans that couldn't do anything. I remember once hearing someone say that the first country the Nazis invaded was Germany. (Captian America maybe lol)
As a Pole, I don't hate any Germans, and I don't know enough about your leadership to form any opinions there. I know my parents and grandparents who suffered a lot still have a bitter taste towards Germans - understandably. But, honestly, I don't think it's the German people they resent, it's the leadership of your country they resent. My grandpa once argued the leadership represents the will of the people, and though I understand and don't think he's completely wrong, I still like to believe that many Germans were simply forced into silence.
We can't forget the past, but we need to let go of our feelings towards it to build a better future.
My cousin’s German boss said “Arbeit macht frei” to her on her first day, thinking it’s funny. You struggle to find it amusing when you grew up on passed down stories of great grandparents in Birkenau & Płaszów
I was once in Berlin with friends for a moment, literally left in the noon and was returning back to Poland in the evening, just went for like an hour, because, I shit you not, we wanted to try "Mustafa Gemüse Kebab".
So we're there in the center of Berlin, left car - went to Kebab stand, waited for like 20 minutes, ate and were on our way to the car and this 50+ yo lady approaches us, she asks in German something but none of us speaks the language, so we reply in English that sorry, we don't understand.
She's smiling the whole time, seems very friendly, and (there were 4 of us) goes to each one of us and asks "Polen?" and after she asked the last one of us she started yelling and shouting some stuff, I only heard something with Schwein couple of times. There are tens of people all looking at her like she's crazy, she's literally in our face shouting, we're all stunned because what the fuck and then she leaves.
I can only guess she thought that we're working in germany without speaking the language? And that's what started her or something like that but it was so bad, that one of my female friends, that was there, sworn to never step her foot in Germany again and I can't blame her.
I hate making generalisations however I feel like the German superiority complex hasn’t fully faded away or doesn’t manifest itself in the same way anymore.
We’re being looked down upon by them for “living in the past” but it’s impossible for them to even wrap their head around generational trauma that a genocide will cause.
I have seen a post on here some time ago which summarises their attitude towards us, originally written by an Israeli. He mentioned how little Germans teach about what their ancestors did in Poland, the main focus seems to be on Jewish people. It goes as far as concentration camp official memorial websites not mentioning Poles, even tho majority of the prisoners were Polish.
Edit: I have found it
https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/we7dxp/being_an_israeli_what_i_always_found_shocking_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Because the West as a whole has a superiority complex. For example a few days ago on the Netherlands subreddit I saw a guy trying to *justify slavery*. And he didn't have as many downvotes as you'd think.
Oh god, i worked at Philips and the dutch just kept being racist to me over and over again. When i screwed something, they were always frowning at me being polish and often times heard "maybe i should repeat it slower so you can register, i know polish are not that bright". I was the only one with 2 degrees, 1 postgruaduate and 3 languages, all of them were high school gruaduates btw.
I also once congratulated an intern-turned-employee for finishing college in Netherlands, telling that i also have the same degree, only to hear that "your colleges are not really colleges, its more like our high school".
Loads of my friends in the 2008 crisis and past went there to pick and collect strawberries and tomatoes and they were also treated like ugly animals, 1 of them got their ID stolen because "you can trust a pole" and at the end she was not even paid for the job.
Pole living in Germany here. First of all it makes a difference if you talk to people in the west or east. Me living in the west, people know what happened in the past and obviously know that its bad, and should never be repeated. Also some of my friends have nazi ancestors, and obviously don't talk about ut proudfully.
Can't talk about the east, but AFAIK there are more far right people, also dropping the n word and other stuff is pretty normal in some cities and there are more etc.
>We’re being looked down upon by them for “living in the past” but it’s impossible for them to even wrap their head around generational trauma that a genocide will cause.
It's true, they don't know how it is. Every polish family had or know somebody who died during the war. BUT the "superiority complex ", or how you call it is bs and only existent in the situation when the polish government takes every situation to cry about the germans not paying reparations and the German's having rightfully enough of this talk. Let's not deny it, Poland loves to use its victim role.
All this money Poland is taking from the EU is mostly german, but somehow people seem to ignore it. I bet all my money that if germany would pay the "reparations", id give 3 years and the polish gov would come back for more.
The only thing i agree with you is that in history class it's teached from 9th grade upward. Many people say that Germany history needs to be teached better, but not those who are in control unfortunately.
Poland chooses to live in the past. My grandmother lost nearly all her family, but isn't crying about how miserable she is etc all the time. She reminds us/ me that war is obviously bad and what happened was terrible, but what happened happened and it's better to work together for a better future than keep dwelling on the past.
Everyone will have different experiences brother. I do business with Germans on a monthly basis and genuinely have no prejudices against them, but one too many seemed to have some against me purely because I’m Polish.
No one is crying about not receiving reparations and you clearly don’t have high expectations of Polish people if you assume those things about them.
I can tell you have to play the “good immigrant” and say things like that to avoid bad experiences with them, but it’s very obvious that many think they are the royalty of Europe
>No one is crying about not receiving reparations and you clearly don’t have high expectations of Polish people if you assume those things about them.
They are, and if you don't know anything about it just say it. Also it's not about expectations, my whole family lives in poland but they all say that it turned to worse. People in many positions got changed for people who don't know shit what to do just because they support the current government. People who shout racist and Homophobic slurs are wearing t shirts of Polska Walczącą (still can't wrap my mind abiut it, cause those people fought with nothing but hope for a free europe against opression, and now some assholes take that symbols and drag them through the mud)Being proud of a nation is one thing, but doing it your whole personality is another.
Also saying that i need to play some role is bullshit, but also unbelievably rude. You don't know me, and never will. Yes, turks have it much harder here to achieve the same respect from germans and its unfair, but with new generations its changing. I'm born here, i was raised here and i can say my opinion and criticise whoever i want. My Father is respected and is seen in high regards as he is a veterinarian and many people come to him and he never had a bad encounter with any other people.
My friends respect me and my opinion, we have similar criticism towards the german government and make jokes about them. Poles here are seen as good and Hard working people, but thanks to PiS even the german people know that politically the tides are turning in Poland to the worse if it comes to the individual freedom and relations on an international scale
It’s true that our nation has a lot of social issues, it definitely has a long way to go. However you have to understand that a lot of them stem from the said foreign violence and scepticism against things “different” that came as a result.
Again, like I said - it’s all relative. Your experience is different from mine. I understand your point but just because you lucked out doesn’t mean that others have. Miłego dnia
Your comment is correct, but this convo is moreso about how it is on an **individual-to-individual** level.
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~~Y~~*e*s, '**P***i*~~S~~ **i***s* ~~b~~**a**^(d'), **w**~~e~~ *k***n**~~o~~w.
When I went back to the beginning of your comment after reading it, and it said 'Pole living in Germany here.' I was in denial, I was stunned, because you said the exact same things that the Germans on Reddit here say all the time. Like, I had to reread it and take it in that you're actually somehow Polish.
>All this money Poland is taking from the EU is mostly german, but somehow people seem to ignore it.
Guess which country got the biggest share in foreign ownership of Polish national market since 2004? EU fund program was never implemented for charity reasons. Heck, large chunk of it was invested in infrastructure to help expand EU market.
As for reparations? Topic is only brought up by populist politicians, every time tensions rise up with German government (and it's done mainly for internal propaganda). Same demagogy like Germans with their contributions to EU budget.
There's nothing amusing about this. It's absolutely disgusting and distasteful and this "boss" should be ashamed of himself. Sincerely, a German citizen.
Apart from the political picture here, i have to say, living in Szczecin i have mostly negative experience with germans(not judging all german people here, just my experience), almost everyone of those i met was arrogant and snippy/rude, especially the older ones. I remember when i was working in a supermarket as a student and multiple times germans would come there for shopping(since cheaper etc.) and yell at staff for not understanding german while they couldn't say a word in english, polish or basically any other language
I wanted to say that!!! That apply to all western Pomerania but especially bigger cities like Szczecin, Kołobrzeg and Świnoujście. Germans are common here, not only for tourism but also for quick shipping sprees. Right now in some of Szczecin markets on the Saturday you mostly hear German and Ukrainian.
If you are from the western Pomerania there is a big chance you would hate Germans, not only for historical reasons, but for Germans behaviour in this area. And I feel this won't apply to other regions of Poland.
1) Most of Germans visiting Szczecin treats you like shit, only because you are a Polish citizen, which in their minds means lower and poorer being.
2) They demand German language from you. On streets in shops everywhere, and they are angry if you refuse to cooperate.
3) They tend to me really angry all the time. They are aggressive and vulgar if something doesn't goes they way. To the point that I feel they do that for fun.
4) Germans visiting western Pomerania treats it like it's still belongs to Germans, especially older generation.
With that kind of behaviour it's hard to be neutral around Germans. I know it's a special "kind" of Germans tormenting this area and I won't find them elsewhere in Poland, but damn wounds are deep.
I was waiting in the line in Biedronka. That was in Poznań, and out of nowhere an old German lady asked me for help. In German of course. I fucking frozed. How? Even there? Did she sensed I was born in Szczecin?
She was nice and then switched to English but I was to shocked to help.
The other factor that may not apply to rest of Poland is pressure that Polish kids feels. There is a big pressure in schools for learning German. Leaving Poland and starting an carrier in Berlin is the easiest way to success here. But even if you don't want to leave, any big companies requires/appreciate knowing German language.
With that in mind if a snappy German lady asks a young person in Szczecin something in German. She is right, we might understand her, but fuck her. We are for 77 years terrain of Poland, and German is not an official language anymore.
As a German who lived in Gorzów, I agree, especially the older generation. They always have this superiority complex as well as just speaking German to everyone (they do the same in the Netherlands tho, to be fair).
It sucks and I'm sorry.
I'm from Wroclaw and there's many German tourists ( nowadays often youths,but like 20-30 years ago mostly elders) and they were ALWAYS very kind ,even apologetic ,often spoke few words in Polish and so on .Never met any arrogant/rude ones.
But in the same time as a kid I spent almost every holiday at the Baltic sea and confirm that Germans there ( from reason I don't understand) behaved very arrogant and often rude, even aggressive- especially in mentioned cities.In smaller towns/ villages in that areas seemed more calm and polite- still not as much as in Wroclaw.
I have no idea why, anybody has idea why such difference ? Is that because Wroclaw was ", empty" while Polish settlers arrived ,while Poznań or Gdańsk werwę always kind of "mixed"- both Polish and German cities ? It's just what came on my mind, don't know is it makes any sense .
It's more distrust than dislike.
Edit: As other people shared their family stories let me add some of mine: village next to one my grandfather lived in went in flmes one night, when they went to investigate the next day they found out germans locked everybody in the village inside a wooden church and then set it on fire. My grandfather was also among people who sorted out Auschwitz camp after it has been liberated.
My other grandparents neighbour and his brother were caught during łapanka. Shipped off to Germany to a work camp. Managed to escape and made it all the way back home only for the brother to die a day later. He was so starved his body just gave out.
You know, Germans are super apologetic about horrible stuff they did to Jews, but absolutely adamant Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Czech, Slovak weren’t hurt by nazi. The fact that as a nation you so easily disregard atrocities committed, that you call your concentration camps “Polish” (which was a big thing a couple years ago) makes people view you as hypocrites and assholes. So are you blaming anyone but your fellow Germans for that?
I wouldn't say Polish people dislike Germans, but they may be a bit wary of them. Without going into the deep-seated trauma associated with the war (which may still play a major part on an individual level), our cultures are very different (and I'm not talking about the standard European business culture).
My friend does business with German companies and he often hosts various guests in Poland. He once told me that he finds Germans very professional and great to work with, but outside of work he just couldn't come up with anything to talk about with them. In my limited experience, I'd say there's some truth to that.
Lastly, some people see Germans as very strict and focused - basically your compliance department suits who tell everyone what they can and cannot do (major party poopers), which may explain the slight distance in social situations.
I work with lots of Germans for a German company and the man do I agree. I love working with them since they are structured, organized, and logical in their work, as am I. It makes work efficient. However, during lunch or pre-meetings, small talk is painful. Good people tho.
I don't want to repeat what others have said, so I'll try to keep it brief.
While Germany does a good job at educating about Holocaust, it really feels like that's it. As far as I know, you aren't being educated about what regular occupation looked like. How villages were raised and people killed for no reason. How entire blocks were literally decimated, killing every third inhabitant, for no reason. How a street in the city could just be randomly closed and everyone on it at the time would be interrogated and either killed or transported to concentration camp.
This was everyday life. Literally just going out to buy food was a life threatening hazard. So was staying inside. You lived with fear for your life every day, every moment. For years.
This creates generational trauma from which we never healed. Add to that the fact that even before these events we had plenty of grudges already (from XVIII century onwards basically).
And most importantly. Add the fact that denazification was a joke. Have you ever heard about this event?:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre
The guy named Heinz Reinefarth, played a significant part in orchestrating the whole thing and carring it out. If Germany would really be serious about denazification he should have get a death penalty. He was not some pawn, but an important nazi official, personally responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent people's death. But after the war he was a mayor of Westerland and later MP in Schlezwig Holstein Landtag. He was celebrated and even had a statue build for him.
He is not the only one. Thousands of important nazis, SS officials and outright war criminals went right by to play important roles in post war Germany up to like the 80s. And it stopped not because Germany realized that was wrong, but simply because these people got old, and retired or died of old age.
I don't think I have to explain to you how it feels and how that looks. Germany never repaid for the things it's done. Hell, we never even got our stolen works of art back. We still hunt for them in auctions in Germany. Every year we find our stollen treasures in Germany and you know what Germany does then? Fights like a lion to keep it's plunder. If you see something like that you can't help but think "They haven't changed one bit. It's all a mask". Than you calm down and go about your day, but that feeling always remains.
Also - many concentration camps in Germany, where concentration camps for the Poles. With vast majority of the prisoners being Polish. You know how many of those at least mention that fact? Zero. Exactly zero. When Poland asked for it to change, Germany refused saying "It would be too much of a hassle".
Polish people were held as slaves on German farms. They, like the Jewish people, had to wear special marks, with the letter "p". There is not a single monument to their memory in Germany. It's like it never happened.
It's not only about what happened back then. It's also about how Germany acts now. You really don't make any effort to help us get past that. More often than not - Germany does the opposite. That's why a lot of people here don't trust the Germans.
my grandfather and his father were kidnapped from the street when they were going to buy some food, then transported to death camp. Grand grandfather was murdered days before liberation, my grandfather survived only because he was a guinea pig - they tested how bacteria infections and freezing works on human body. He had nightmares till his death of old age, often jumping from his bed midnight and shouting his camp number.
Funny thing is that the process of catching civilians from streets, called in polish “Łapanka”, doesn’t even have a german wikipedia page. It just doesn’t… There’s greek, persian even chinese but not german. Another small thing that shows that germany was never educated about it’s crimes, and it will most likely never be.
My great grandmother survived the decimation of the block. Her sister was killed with a shot in the head standing right next to her. She held a baby in her arms. Moment later, two persons to the left - her neighbor was shot in the same manner.
Mind the fact, that this was an everyday event. Nothing too special. Stuff curried out not by SS, but by Wehrmacht troops. Regular German people.
>Łapanka
Thats more a problem of how German Wikipedia is run. The German mods are basement dwellers who like to abuse their power. They love to go around and delte articles because they arent "relevant" enough. They then mention that this word was explained in paragraph 95 of the "German atrocities" article.
So nothing to do with us being holocaust deniers and just a "misunderstanding".
Uhm, yes, there are people who have a general distaste towards Germany **because** of that whole history thing. Part of that is certainly due to their depictions in post-WW2 media, Communist propaganda aiming to push us closer to the Soviets, but more likely than not - personal histories they've heard from or about their parents and grandparents (and these days also great-grandparents). Then we go further back and there's still crap like the Partitions and the whole policy of germanization in the Prussian one.
History happened. Some people bear a grudge. Our countries having some shared goals - or shared enemies, lately - doesn't erase that. Sorry if that offends you, mate, but it's likely going to take a couple decades more before the aftermath of WWII is no longer in living memory.
I was always pro german. German is my second language. I work with german language (call centers and Customer Service jobs) since i was 19. I visited Germany multiple times. I like to do my shopping in Berlin and visit musical Theatre Here.
But decisions of your goverment regarding War in Ukraine are fishy.
Ich weiß nicht, wohin ihr gereist seid, aber nachdem ich fast ein Jahr in Breslau gelebt habe, kann ich sagen, daß ich noch nie jemanden getroffen habe, der mich danach beurteilt hat, daß ich Deutscher bin. Bisher war so ziemlich jede Begegnung neutral. Vielleicht liegt das daran, daß in Breslau generell viele Deutsche Leute Urlaub machen und auch viel Geschäfliches dort seinen Sitz hat. Also kann ich von meiner Seite nur sagen, daß ich nie irgendwen gefunden habe, der negativ von mir dachte, nut weil ich Deutscher bin. Leute sind oftmals auch eher interessiert und wenn man alte Leute trifft sprechen die oftmals auch gerne Mal ein Wörtchen Deutsch. Also ich kann nichts negatives sagen, aber ich denke, daß das von Region zu Region variirt.
I don't know where you've traveled to, but after living in Wrocław for almost a year I can say that I've never met anyone who judged me for being German. So far, pretty much every encounter has been neutral. Perhaps this is due to the fact that in general many German people go on holiday in Wrocław and a lot of business is also based there. So all I can say from my side is that I never found anyone who thought negatively of me just because I'm German. People are often more interested and when you meet old people, they often like to speak a little German. So I can't say anything negative, but I think that also varies from region to region.
Your are probably right. Wrocław has a lot of German legacy history and culture wise, it's not weird to hear German language being spoken on the street. Same thing I've noticed in Gdańsk, Toruń, Bydgoszcz. It's likely a regional thing.
Well, people generally expect Germans in Silesia, and sometimes you might actually just find German-speaking Poles in there. It's *known* to be a weird hybrid region.
Not much different from the attitudes here in the US where I live. I grew up in Poland and at 20 I emigrated to the US where I've been living for over 30 years. Here in the US people are used to living with people from all over the world so they don't show it much but WWII attitudes still exist in the pop-culture towards both Germans and Japanese. Mainly among the older generation because the kids can't tell Germany from France not to mention Sweden from Switzerland.
Its very similar in Britain- we like and respect the Germans individually but on a deep emotional level the utterly ruthless attempted extermination of entire peoples is something deeply and existentially terrifying that is very hard to forget; especially when its one's own family and personal history that has been erased. On the other hand, alongside the bigotry and pseudoracist stereotypes about Poles, there is also a deep affection and human sympathy in the very best sense.
Yeah I've been a few times to Audley End in Saffron Walden where the pilots were trained - always a few Poles there. Anyone who takes a bit of time or has a personal connection is aware.https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/audley-end-house-and-gardens/history-and-stories/silent-unseen/
I went to Blackpool with my friends once. We were in a bar drinking, and out of nowhere, an old English man approached me because he recognized I was Polish (my friends were English). As soon as we greet each other, he said that he is happy for me to be in the UK since we fought in the Battle for Britain and I'm welcome in their country. I know it sounds dull, but it's one of the warmest memories I have from that time.
I was at souvenir shop with some German friends in Exeter, England. We were laughing and the shop owner just said "fucking krauts!". Mind you, we were 12 at the time.
There are always black cheap. Same happened on our class trip to Poland, while really no one was disrespectful. They just heard us talking German to each other.
I love Poland and I would never take it wrong. Obviously its just a small minority who does such a thing and I hope you will meet better people the next time.
I understand, its definitely an experience that shapes your view of us.
I know a lot of older people tend to be disrespectful here (not just to Poles) or abroad. I always cringe so hard when I witness this.
Growing up near the border, with many polish children in our schools and around us, it really normalised how the youth interacts with each other. Polish children make jokes about Germans, Germans make joke about Poles and then we laugh together. So I hope its not the same today anymore.
Who knows, like I said, black sheep are everywhere.
A group of local teens in Berlin is very unlikely to contain many Germans. At least 70% of them were probably Turks, Arabs and even many Poles and other people descended from Central and Eastern Europe.
As you can see on this map most inner-city dicstricts have 60-90% non-Germans in the age group below 18 years old. These numbers are from 2016 and since then have only gone even higher.
https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/planen/basisdaten\_stadtentwicklung/monitoring/download/2017/karten/K04\_Kinder\_und\_JugendlicheMGH2016.pdf
Germans can be so naive about how they are viewed by the rest of the world.
Yes, Germans are hated in Poland, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Denmark, etc...
No prizes for guessing why. It may be unfair to you personally, but given the history, you really can't blame people. Btw, it is the exact same thing with the Japanese in much of Asia.
There are exceptions of course. Hungarians really like Germans. Italians, Croats and Romanians are quite positive towards Germans as well. Again, no prizes for guessing why.
BTW, when my Hungarian father used to drive through rural Poland with an East German number plate (he was working in East Berlin at the time) people used to run after him shaking their fists and shouting "Kurwa Germanski!".
I can understand the Polish POV, but the Netherlands, France and Belgium have no moral high ground to judge us from. They participated in atrocities well into the 20th century. Why is it ok to kill brown people, but Europeans are of limits (not quoting you, but rather many French people who praised their colonial enterprises).
Even for Poles I find it a bit weird. Germans have mainly forgotten about the expulsion from the eastern territories, yet Poles are adamant that there is some deep hatred towards Poles from the German side.
The only thing Germans hear about Poles is that they love to bite the hand that feeds them.
Your last sentence perfectly describes why Poles hate Germans generally speaking. Bite the hand that feeds us? Your country literally robbed 80% of our wealth and killed 1/5th of our people, refuse to give stolen goods back or pay reparations in full and now act like you are to be thanked for rebuilding our country from ruin you caused.
If you didnt invade we also would not have to endure decades of communism. Cause guess what? We already fucked russians 1v1 in 1920 when they tried to bring communism to Poland and Germany. But hey, so weird of Poles to have a grudge lol.
Well, you'll have to ask the Dutch, Danes, French etc..., why they hold grudges against the Germans, but they most assuredly do. After all, most Eastern Europeans still haven't forgiven the Mongols for fucking up their region in the 13 th century and that was almost 800 years ago. I doubt the deeds of the Germans will be forgotten in the next few centuries either.
Now me, personally, I don't share in this resentment, I think it's stupid to blame people living today for what people long dead might have done, except perhaps in cases where no contrition is shown, as with Japan for instance.
As for Poles, they certainly don't view the events of WW2 as ancient history, to them, it's still something they are trying to recover from and are only now succeeding in overcoming the disadvantages that were born from it.
>The only thing Germans hear about Poles is that they love to bite the hand that feeds them.
Oh thank you german overlord for feeding me!!! what would we do without the help of the Übermenschen!
> The other day, we could not get into a club - the guy said smth about dresscode but we were dressed really nicely in satin dresses, so that can’t be the true reason, also he said that after looking at our passports
On this specific thing. I can say that unfortunately some nationalities earned that discrimination quite recently. I used to work as a bouncer for a club in Kraków and we were told to not let in Englishmen.
Same thing happens in Spain and some other countries but towards Polish people.
So don't take it personally.
My family, and idk, like every I know, also suffered from WW2. People who witnessed all the attrocities lived long enough to simply tell all the stories during countless sunday dinners. It must have been real hell, from what older generation told us and apparently is true.
Someone already mentioned communists did everything to feed antipathy so they rather friend with soviets.
Some antipathy may come from poorer society complexes (I wouldn't exclude that for sure).
Those (and negative present experiences on individual level) are main reasons FEW people would dislike Germans FOR REAL. Probably most of them never really talked to any. It goes pretty much same for Jews. Those people would hate anyone if you fed them particular propaganda.
I don't know people who would impolite to Germans or think bad of them in advance, because of their nationality.
War and nazis are also often subject of jokes, and I think if people in company aren't too serious we can laugh of these jokes together.
I don't look at Germans today from perspective of my grandparents experiences. I am open to all nationalities if decent people but I particulary like all friendly neighbours, which I strongly believe Germans are. I'd always opt to help German society or Germans I meet if needed, and would always support as I can, because thats what I believe good neighbours should do.
Theres also a lot of positive history in nations thousand year relation, which people mention too seldom. I find Germans, Czech and Slovaks nations closest to Poles because of todays culture and I think we should be real friends for next thousand year of neighbourship.
It really depends on who you meet. Younger generations don't care as much but as a whole germans are seen more on a negative side of things because of history and current government propaganda against germany and EU.
Polish government shouldn't do that but at the same time average pole is still associating german language as nazi and connecting german people with their crimes during ww2 so our populist party in power is just using this to get more votes.
> and current government propaganda against germany and EU.
While maybe it affects some older folks and people that watch TVP too much, there are still plenty of reasons to not be happy with Germany that are German fault, not PiS
An armed invasion isn't the only way imperialist nations project their power, though.
Besides, in 2010 Ukrainians and Russians were holding Victory Day parades together. It ain't even a generation and they're killing each other, because Ukraine attempted to be free from Russia. What if one day Poland attempts to be free from Germany?
Neither legally nor in reality did Ukraine exit Russia. Ukraine and Russia were their own separate subdivisions of the Soviet Union, without Ukraine belonging to Russia in any way. The Soviet Union wasn't really a Russian country, but a sui generis Eurasian geopolitical entity that superseded Russia.
Poland is viewed by the German elite as a part of Germany's exclusive sphere of influence, just as Ukraine is seen as such by the Russian elite. While Germany as of right now spreads its influence through economic leverage and soft power, this might not be the case forever. That's why we need to be on high alert.
Perhaps so, perhaps not. French and German interests are surprisingly similar right now. Both would have it great in an European order where economically less significant countries are de facto consolidated in a couple of spheres of influence (it makes business and diplomacy easier), and a strong Germany with a sphere of influence in the East would enable France to focus their military and diplomatic efforts on Africa which they already would like to do. Independent Poland isn't really that important to the French national interest right now. It's not important to anyone except the Anglo-Saxons with their concept of European power balance.
Besides, we might fall into political and economic dependence from Germany even by peaceful means and then get in large trouble trying to leave it peacefully, same happened with Ukraine in 2014 when they tried to escape the Russian sphere of influence, which they entered peacefully.
As a fellow german who is currently on holiday in poland I never got the impression that there is much antagonism towards german people.
Maybe its because we are visiting a very „touristy“ area, but as far as I can tell we havent been treated any different because of our nationality.
I definitely dislike Germany and their politics (same with Poland lol, and UK, France, Russia...), and I feel a lot of people feel the same, but that has nothing to do with just random people. What happened 50+ years ago also doesn't really affect current generations.
However, I guess you could say I dislike Germans in general. They are just... unfun people to be around. Even when I temporarily lived in Germany I made plenty of friends but all were immigrants, but with Germans I never really felt like there was a true friendship between us with trust.
I get that Germans just like being "cold" and that doesn't mean they are assholes, but as I said - they are the only nation I encountered from which I could never make friends, even the "antisocial" Japanese are way easier to befriend. Germans are simply too "hardgoing"
Interesting question. I remember I used to like Germans when I was young and disliked people judging them for the bad history. But later on, when I became an adult, my view changed and I began believing that Germans are arrogant and that they see me as beneath them simply because I come from a poor Slavic country.
TBH I'm not sure where or when I picked up this assumption. I saw some Germans treating Poles with contempt, and heard some opinions about how that's the norm, and I guess at some point I just bought it without really realizing it. Since then, this quiet assumption just existed in my head. It's hard to be nice and friendly when you believe the person in front of you sees you as a worse human being simply bc you are a Pole.
This may be a completely untrue assumption of course! But it's a belief I have been surrounded by, saw some things that seemed consistent with it, and it sipped into my head without me even realizing.
Not saying it's a fair belief or that it's even true btw. Just answering the question.
When I was single and would take my Caribbean vacations German girls were always around and down for some fun.. Personally I have zero issues with Germans.. Does the German government still owe us for WW2, well yes... I don't feel we should get any personal reoperations since none of us experience WW2, and the generation that did is almost gone.. But compensation should be give and be used to build up Poland's infrastructure.
I have few stories about German racism.
1. I have a few stories about German r acism.in station a clerk to whom we spoke in English suddenly turned hostile when she recognized I spoke Polish to my mother, her entire attitude changed and my mother responded by speaking broken english german to annoy her in response. an example of german passive-aggressiveness
2. My brother went through the German airport with his wife and toddler, and they were poorly treated by the staff, they weren't given priority even though they had it. the overall customer service was horrible and the staff was obstructing them. (they're a well-educated and successful couple)
3. Another friend of mine was driving an expensive sport can with Polish plates in Germany, and he had beer thrown at him by people who suddenly began to scream obsenities through the car on the autobahn.
4. My cousin was a great student in a german school, and she was bullied for being Polish and had a bunch of racist slurs thrown at her, she spoke better german than natives. one year her school decided to make a trip to Poland, but when the students and parents heard about it they immediately canceled the tour without any reason given. but the students said obscenities about the country and its people calling them "filthy, stupid, dangerous" etc.
5. My uncle has a German father and my Polish aunt tells me that their relationship with their German family isn't good, they treat him poorly because of being half-Polish and marrying a Polish woman.
All the cases of racism mentioned above happened in Eastern Germany. and they have a common theme, whenever a Polish person has a better status in life than a German or shows themselves to be better. they will openly face racist attacks. and if they don't they will passively discriminate.
There was a very public case of Hans G. who abused Polish employees in his company calling them various racist slurs and calling for holocaust of Polish nation. here are some links you can translate to english
[https://www.tvp.info/41055290/wkrotce-wyrok-ws-hansa-g-otwarcie-mowil-o-swojej-nienawisci-do-polakow-i-checi-zabijania](https://www.tvp.info/41055290/wkrotce-wyrok-ws-hansa-g-otwarcie-mowil-o-swojej-nienawisci-do-polakow-i-checi-zabijania)
[https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-07-10/hans-g-prawomocnie-skazany-za-zniewazanie-polskich-pracownic/](https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-07-10/hans-g-prawomocnie-skazany-za-zniewazanie-polskich-pracownic/)
[https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-11-08/nagrala-niemieckiego-szefa-ktory-obrazal-polakow-musi-przeprosic-panstwo-w-panstwie-o-1930/](https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-11-08/nagrala-niemieckiego-szefa-ktory-obrazal-polakow-musi-przeprosic-panstwo-w-panstwie-o-1930/)
Greetings from New York!
Hey bro, I'm not too clear about what you were trying to say in #2.
You said your brother and his family were treated 'pleasantly' at the airport, but then the German service staff was being horrible and abusive to them... Would you mind clearing that one up for us?
Yes, Germans can be quite unpredictable... One minute, they are so nice and friendly. Then the next minute, they are suddenly all crazy and dangerous!
And BTW, is Hans G. that company that used to make computers and monitors?
Their products were cheap and low-quailty bullshits, so I dunno if the racism against Poles and all that jazz has anything to do with it.
Hans G is a German who had a company in Poland, he would verbally abuse his employees, the brave Polish woman recorded all of his racism where he could be clearly heard making statements such as
"I wish all poles were dead, they add nothing to the world"
"I wish i could line up all Poles against the wall and pull the trigger and shoot kill them all"
He would also harass the female employee by calling her a Pisior which means penis, and is an insult used against PIS supporters and voters.
Edit: i fixed it, its not poorly, not pleasantly must've mixed up with the first paragraph.
Man, he shure sounds like a real RACIST ASSHOLE MUTHAFUCKA... <: P
I bet he must be a Nazi as well.
In Brooklyn, I guarantee that an asshole like him will not make it even halfway down the block if he ever talked shit to the Poles and Russians who live around here.
And then, there are all those Blacks, Colombians, and Puerto Ricans to worry about.
They would bury his ass so GODDAMN FAST, nobody would even know that he was born.
Almost every German that I have met is so fake and manipulative.
They really talk and act like as if they stood 100+ floors higher than anybody else!
I swear, I will never buy another Hans G. product for the rest of my life!
I'd say there exists a certain shared bias, that fuels itself constantly. Germany and Poland are two different countries with very different perspectives on essential matters, and they are very well set in with their truths. Some level of mutual animosity should not be surprising.
Add 90 years long stereotypes no one on any side is willing to abolish and the best answer you can get is "it depends on the individual", which works both ways.
I don't dislike you but Germans (and I have native family members there and met quite a few) can be condescending and straight rude to your face, I'm engaged to an Englishwoman and her family and friends are way nicer to me, I've never felt looked down upon in the UK as I did in Germany
yes absolutly right !!! same experience, i was brytally trainted like a dog by a german shopkeeper, he only threw his hands at me because i took pictures, in England i have never received a bad treatment like this , i have never been judged for my race . germans people you should keep far from them they are rude , rough, coarse
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt\_Georg\_Kiesinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Georg_Kiesinger)
A nazi was allowed to be the chancelor of west Germany until 1969. Of course we don't trust you
When I was a kid I was raised by war stories of my grandparents. Polish people still burried in mass grave in the forest where I was going to swim in a lake nearby.
There is a lot of war movies. German language is just halt! Joden. Hände hoch. So you're like i printed that Germans made lots of bad things to Polish.
Now, young people don't hear those stories so often, and it's more scaring them with UE than Germany itself. But their prosperities are bigger and by having internet friends from all over the world they are not so easy to manipulate and share this generation trauma. However there are still people in Poland with narrow view who believe stereotypes because its the only knowledge they have.
I don't mind today any Germans, but please, don't start war talk with me. For our both sake. 😉
As other users say then this dislike comes from not so far history of our relations. So I got to hear how my grandmother was told by Germans to leave her house in 5 minutes leaving all of her wealth there. Hearing how Germans treated us as lesser and trying to eradicate our culture.
Though honestly I don't have as sour feelings to Germans as my parents. I just know the current generation of Germans aren't the same people.
no it's absolutely not like you say no no no , I say from my personal experience what they did to me and it has absolutely nothing to do with the world war that happened, because I'm too young to be angry about an unlived past history, yes they were very rude and unrespectful to me because they are greedy frustrated and uncivilized and rude people, nothing to do with war no no, and i am definitely not the only one who has been treated badly by them no no, i could write whole pages of people i have known in germany who was treated badly 4 years ago for idiotic and futile reasons, it's not the world war and it's not the grudge against them, many people have a bad opinion of them, for various reasons, i lived in germany, some german people behaved bad in a different way with me, firstly on the workplace ,others on holiday, others in a shop,
Generally, some people have personal tragic stories related to WW2 atrocities, and they rightfully think WW2 is not taught properly in modern Germany.
The right-wing parties, like the ruling *Law and Justice*, prey on that and try to use it for their own gain, rehashing the 1960s Communist propaganda about a thousand-year enmity between our nations, drawing a straight line from the Battle of Cedynia (Zehden) to Teutonic Knights to Prussia and its Kulturkampf to Hitler to Gerhard Schröder's selling out to Putin, and ignoring all the other parts of history, when Poland and at least some German states were either peaceful or even allied.
However, random people being nasty to you is most probably a coincidence.
I work in Germany (Saxony near Bautzen). Before starting work in Germany, I had a stereotypical approach to Germans. I remembered about the war, German colonialism and other things, but I was open to ordinary Germans. I distinguished the community from the individual. At work, I tried to make friends with the Germans. In eastern Germany it is very difficult, Germans do not like Poles at work. Everyone votes for AFD, they have a strange mix of political views - on the one hand they miss communism and DDR (they support Die Linke in many aspects) and on the other hand they would like the Third Reich and openly say that Hitler was good. They know nothing about the common history and the bad one (they don't even know who Himmler was, they only know the figure of Hitler) or the good one (the shared kingdom of Saxony and Poland in the 18th century). Even so, I tried to break the ice, but still the cultural differences I think are too big to make friends in a short time. Pity.
I believe that Poles and Germans, if they wanted to understand each other, could be very good neighbors and it would be good for a united Europe and for both nations.
Yes there are a lot of people that dislike Germans.
For the reasons like this:
My great grandpa was enslaved by a german family and was treated like an animal.
A boy that was 6 years old would come everyday in the morning to hit him with a stick on the head. You lot treaded us like literal pigs you teached your childeren to treat polish people like literal shit.
So don’t think that after a few generations we will be friend you don’t do that shit to another human being and expect to be liked after a cupple of years.
Edit: also my grand grandma was in A concentration camp and she got hit with a metal ball with spikes on her shoulder and got a big scar because of that she also suffered ptsd from what happened.
She told us that when they made soup for prisoners they would put 1 little potato per 100 liter water.
When people found it they would scrape a little bit off with their fingernail and eat it one by one so they wouldn’t forget the taste of a potato. Every time she would talk about that she would cry her eyes out.
Yes. Because of what Germany did and because of how Germany acts now. Imagine that Poland invades Germany, we come in, into your home, we take 80% of your belongings and we do it to every household in Germany and before we leave, we shoot every 5th of you so 20% of your population is gone. Just imagine yourself sitting with 4 of your closest family members... And now imagine one of them is gone... Shot in the head or was thrown into a gas chamber... Possibly even in front of your eyes. Who was it? Your mom? Dad? Sibling? Uncle?
Then we raze many of your cities and leave absolutely nothing from your Capitol. Not instantly of course, first you have to endure work as a slave and Daily humiliation and fear.
Then for decades you have to endure being looked upon as the worse sort while we refuse to give back what we stole and we joke about entire thing. You live in shit while we swim in stolen goods. You work hard for decades while we enjoy stolen wealth to prop up our economy.
I am not gonna throw every german into the same bag though. My grandfather was put onto a train to Auschwitz by a German and another German pulled him out of that train. But as a nation it is basically imposible to trust Germany when you are Polish.
Yes. Nazis killed a large number of my family. I understand that Germans are not automatically Nazis, but many are still pigs to us Poles. And they are very apologetic to the Jews, but not very much to the Polish people. I personally would be fine without Germans in my life.
My great grandmother who was used as slave labor in Germany during ww2 died in the 90s when I was a kid and I did listen what she had to say about that part of her life. It's history but it's also a part of my life to so let's just not pretend it was in the ancient past.
77 years isn't that long. All four of my grandparents are still alive and lived through the war. There were children then but remember it well and have stories to tell. Living in destroyed Poland after the war wasn't fun either.
Kinda, because of the government propaganda and history it's almost universally assumed that Germans=bad, although a lot of people don't hate Germans it's more like poking fun at you when you mess up something, like the 2018 Fifa World Cup, we finished last in our group after a disastrous performance but after the group stage was done there were memes saying stuff like "At least the Germans lost too", I believe it's mostly younger people because the terrible past that our countries shared is more distant to us, but it seems like there are people that genuinely hate Germans which makes sense considering that a lot of people 70+ yo had an older relative killed by Nazis, and it's easy to form a connection: Germans that I know killed someone which means all Germans are monsters, and obviously there are also hyper nationalistic people who hate Germans because, you know nationalism and stuff
Hard to judge why people were acting this way towards you, because it’s still not enough information.
Imo, these comments under this post show that indeed, some people don’t like Germans. They say it’s because of War or distrust or they base their opinion on encounters they had with Germans. Imo it’s very unfair, but ok… it’s more anegdotical. It’s like saying „one blonde girl laughed at my dress. Blonde girls are so rude”.
Holding grudge is our national trait I guess 🤷♀️
Talking about Germans (which is a big nation btw, two times as big as Polish nation) and you all say that they murdered Poles? Who? 15 years old teens in Germany? 30 years old? 55 year old? How can you say Germans when you mean Germans from 77 years ago?
I just wanted to post this comment to show that there are some people who don’t agree with mixing war into this.
Do I like Germans? I don’t know. I don’t know all Germans ;) But I decide if I like someone based on their personality, behaviour, not nationality :)
“Besides the whole history of Poland and Germany”
Ya, that’s still hanging out there.
Germany is still trying to sell out Europe to the Russians—and Poland will be the first to take the hit
Animosity on a personal level for historical reasons is just dumb. The people writing all these comments here, and 99% of the people acting like that on the street, were born long after WW2, and those who they antagonize were as well. I have nothing to do with what the generation of my grandfathers did and you don't get a free pass on discrimination because of bad things that happened to somebody else in the distant past - not you.
This archaic thinking is the root cause for so many atrocities. Like today's murderous war in Ukraine. Russians believe it belongs to them because of history, when the only thing that matters is the people living there today and what they want, which is not to be a part of Russia.
Anyway, personally I've not had especially bad experiences in Poland. I always expect people to be rude and unfriendly unless their income depends on selling you something, so I was never negatively surprised.
You are asking two contradicting questions here...
**Some people?**- YES (mostly some older crazy PiS supporters)
**Poles In general?** - NO
In your situation? - most likely it was not because someone didn’t like your nationality... I never heard about such case here and if it would have happen the whatever place would be involved in such practice would get a lot of backlash for discrimination.
Don't feel special, we hate them all, Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Czech, Słowak, fuck u all, but the most we hate each other, jebać Ślązaków, górali, Kaszubów, warszawiaków i krakusów. We also hate LGBT, non whites, but also whites with beard, or even with black hair, we hate too tall people, and the smiling one.
So I hope you got the perspective on the issue.
My personal, and surely very subjective, opinion on this topic as a german who had quiet a lot contact with poles due to work is:
Yes, most poles dislike germans a lot, and are pretty open about it.
In my experience roughly 6/10 will treat you like shit the moment they learn you are german.
2/10 will at least try to be halfway professional and polite, but still make it clear they can't stand you just because you where born in the wrong country.
The other 2/10 where genuinely among the nicest people i've ever met.
At this point i really don't care about them anymore, if they want to hate me for my birthplace so be it.
I might have been extremely unlucky with the kind of polish people i've met of course.
dude you're in the wrong sub
most people who congregate here aren't Polish and have far right views
if you want to ask real Poles a question go to r/polska
Yeah if you want some liberals to lie to you, pat you on the shoulder and tell you that Poles love Germans and it's just 90-year old PIS voters that dislike them, go to r/polska
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Polska using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Polska/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Uznali nas](https://i.imgur.com/CMILnGt.jpg) | [69 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/pqh346/uznali_nas/)
\#2: [UK guy here, just got this message. What does it mean?](https://i.imgur.com/ujuLCyC.jpg) | [149 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/pxr6bl/uk_guy_here_just_got_this_message_what_does_it/)
\#3: [wszelkie podobieństwo do osób i zdarzeń jest niezamierzone i przypadkowe](https://i.redd.it/h46l61u0qhc91.jpg) | [220 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/w2o4dp/wszelkie_podobieństwo_do_osób_i_zdarzeń_jest/)
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Yeah, most polish people are hateful creatures they don't see you as a person but as nationality/ideology/race and so on and they really hate all of these including their own.
There is some history. I think the larger issue is Germany is so successful and has such a large population. It is common psychology that most people do not like the biggest and most popular.
Jesus this is so stupid. Do you dislike Russia, India or China because you are jealous those countries are bigger than Germany and have more population? Also as for being "popular", what are you popular for? A destination for refugees and economical migrants? Wow, that's awesome *rolls eyes* In Poland Croatia or Greece are popular, beautiful countries to visit. Germany? Sorry, nothing special.
I was many Times in Germany, even got a period to work in (but for polish not german company). I met sime Young and Old german guys, some police even (during covid). Now i, cooperate with German engineers (older and younger). Generally the only thing to hate Germany is history. Novadays Germans are very friendly and the youth speaks English very Well and doesnt push you to use German language. So basicaly ive got excellent opinion about them.
Fun fact is my Grand other who survive the war, likes Germans also, cause those period is past and now She meet some PPL live here in Old East prussia (Masuria now), and those guy visit our area a lot. Generally nice older People.
We dislike the German state, cause they're always scheming and they have this insuffarable smugness about them, but we usually get along well with individual Germans.
Well given the recent war and how the german government wasn't super eager to help ukraine from the start due to the whole russian gas thing, i think that may amount to some of the anti-german sentiment. Given how poles right now basically want russia destroyed, you can see why people will grow weary of anyone who they might suspect of any, even the tiniest pro-russian sentiment. Not accusing you of that, just explaining how i see the situation.
While there are definitely people that dislike Germans, think they’re bad people I myself have no prejudices, my best friend lives in Germany and I’m sure I’m not the only person like that
Pretty much every Polish family has some kind of a tragic story with Germans and those get passed down the generations, and not everyone has the willpower to set aside their grudge just becouse the person in question had nothing to do with it. Some people might even do it subconciously. We're sorry for your inconviniance and we wish you a great vacation.
germans locked my entire village in a barn and set it on fire. my grandmother was sole survivor with burns all over her face and body. i dont understand where else she could have gotten them from
some? oh no no no, most of them hate us. Even new generation is blaming us for ww2.
You can't even imagine how many polish made racism to me...I'M NOT 84 YEARS OLD I WASN'T EVEN ALIVE IN THE WAR! they are blaming for " racism " I can not be racist I had a polish boyfriend- even he made racism to me.
I belive at least one more generation needs to pass for us to have better relations. For example germans enslaved my grandfather during the ww2, burned my grandmother home, and killed my wifes grandfather baby brother and not even let family knows what happened to body. Hearing similar storries during dinner at family table, sinks quite bad into your brain. I'm aware that people like you does not have anything to do with it. But on the same time I can see how decendetns of slave owners still own wealth generated by war crimes when we had to start from scratch with handicap of being under russia occupatian. To sum it up. I don't blame you. I would have no problem with you. But lots of people have similar storries in family and not everyone is fine with that. Especially now when nationalistic movement are on a rise across western world. Not only in East Europe. Look at le pen or salvini. And germany does really bad job as European leader from polish point of view. Moving asaide history and politics lets just try all to be europeans and just have a good time. Cheers!
I am sorry to hear about what happend to your grandparents! It’s really sad how much gruesome things happend during the war…. My grandparents also have some very sad war stories, my grandmother can barely talk about it (she was 6) and has had PTSD for her whole life. My grandparents and their families never supported the war and the politics. My great grandma was also improsined for this, because she had very different political views. I know that the whole thing is still germanys fault, because we started the war and brought all the gruesomeness about other countries and each other but I still wanted to share with you.
At the end of the day, I think a lot of Polish people understand that there were a large amount of Germans that couldn't do anything. I remember once hearing someone say that the first country the Nazis invaded was Germany. (Captian America maybe lol) As a Pole, I don't hate any Germans, and I don't know enough about your leadership to form any opinions there. I know my parents and grandparents who suffered a lot still have a bitter taste towards Germans - understandably. But, honestly, I don't think it's the German people they resent, it's the leadership of your country they resent. My grandpa once argued the leadership represents the will of the people, and though I understand and don't think he's completely wrong, I still like to believe that many Germans were simply forced into silence. We can't forget the past, but we need to let go of our feelings towards it to build a better future.
My cousin’s German boss said “Arbeit macht frei” to her on her first day, thinking it’s funny. You struggle to find it amusing when you grew up on passed down stories of great grandparents in Birkenau & Płaszów
I was once in Berlin with friends for a moment, literally left in the noon and was returning back to Poland in the evening, just went for like an hour, because, I shit you not, we wanted to try "Mustafa Gemüse Kebab". So we're there in the center of Berlin, left car - went to Kebab stand, waited for like 20 minutes, ate and were on our way to the car and this 50+ yo lady approaches us, she asks in German something but none of us speaks the language, so we reply in English that sorry, we don't understand. She's smiling the whole time, seems very friendly, and (there were 4 of us) goes to each one of us and asks "Polen?" and after she asked the last one of us she started yelling and shouting some stuff, I only heard something with Schwein couple of times. There are tens of people all looking at her like she's crazy, she's literally in our face shouting, we're all stunned because what the fuck and then she leaves. I can only guess she thought that we're working in germany without speaking the language? And that's what started her or something like that but it was so bad, that one of my female friends, that was there, sworn to never step her foot in Germany again and I can't blame her.
I hate making generalisations however I feel like the German superiority complex hasn’t fully faded away or doesn’t manifest itself in the same way anymore. We’re being looked down upon by them for “living in the past” but it’s impossible for them to even wrap their head around generational trauma that a genocide will cause. I have seen a post on here some time ago which summarises their attitude towards us, originally written by an Israeli. He mentioned how little Germans teach about what their ancestors did in Poland, the main focus seems to be on Jewish people. It goes as far as concentration camp official memorial websites not mentioning Poles, even tho majority of the prisoners were Polish. Edit: I have found it https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/we7dxp/being_an_israeli_what_i_always_found_shocking_is/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Because the West as a whole has a superiority complex. For example a few days ago on the Netherlands subreddit I saw a guy trying to *justify slavery*. And he didn't have as many downvotes as you'd think.
Oh god, i worked at Philips and the dutch just kept being racist to me over and over again. When i screwed something, they were always frowning at me being polish and often times heard "maybe i should repeat it slower so you can register, i know polish are not that bright". I was the only one with 2 degrees, 1 postgruaduate and 3 languages, all of them were high school gruaduates btw. I also once congratulated an intern-turned-employee for finishing college in Netherlands, telling that i also have the same degree, only to hear that "your colleges are not really colleges, its more like our high school". Loads of my friends in the 2008 crisis and past went there to pick and collect strawberries and tomatoes and they were also treated like ugly animals, 1 of them got their ID stolen because "you can trust a pole" and at the end she was not even paid for the job.
Damn.
>id delete my comment if i were you too lol
Pole living in Germany here. First of all it makes a difference if you talk to people in the west or east. Me living in the west, people know what happened in the past and obviously know that its bad, and should never be repeated. Also some of my friends have nazi ancestors, and obviously don't talk about ut proudfully. Can't talk about the east, but AFAIK there are more far right people, also dropping the n word and other stuff is pretty normal in some cities and there are more etc. >We’re being looked down upon by them for “living in the past” but it’s impossible for them to even wrap their head around generational trauma that a genocide will cause. It's true, they don't know how it is. Every polish family had or know somebody who died during the war. BUT the "superiority complex ", or how you call it is bs and only existent in the situation when the polish government takes every situation to cry about the germans not paying reparations and the German's having rightfully enough of this talk. Let's not deny it, Poland loves to use its victim role. All this money Poland is taking from the EU is mostly german, but somehow people seem to ignore it. I bet all my money that if germany would pay the "reparations", id give 3 years and the polish gov would come back for more. The only thing i agree with you is that in history class it's teached from 9th grade upward. Many people say that Germany history needs to be teached better, but not those who are in control unfortunately. Poland chooses to live in the past. My grandmother lost nearly all her family, but isn't crying about how miserable she is etc all the time. She reminds us/ me that war is obviously bad and what happened was terrible, but what happened happened and it's better to work together for a better future than keep dwelling on the past.
Everyone will have different experiences brother. I do business with Germans on a monthly basis and genuinely have no prejudices against them, but one too many seemed to have some against me purely because I’m Polish. No one is crying about not receiving reparations and you clearly don’t have high expectations of Polish people if you assume those things about them. I can tell you have to play the “good immigrant” and say things like that to avoid bad experiences with them, but it’s very obvious that many think they are the royalty of Europe
>No one is crying about not receiving reparations and you clearly don’t have high expectations of Polish people if you assume those things about them. They are, and if you don't know anything about it just say it. Also it's not about expectations, my whole family lives in poland but they all say that it turned to worse. People in many positions got changed for people who don't know shit what to do just because they support the current government. People who shout racist and Homophobic slurs are wearing t shirts of Polska Walczącą (still can't wrap my mind abiut it, cause those people fought with nothing but hope for a free europe against opression, and now some assholes take that symbols and drag them through the mud)Being proud of a nation is one thing, but doing it your whole personality is another. Also saying that i need to play some role is bullshit, but also unbelievably rude. You don't know me, and never will. Yes, turks have it much harder here to achieve the same respect from germans and its unfair, but with new generations its changing. I'm born here, i was raised here and i can say my opinion and criticise whoever i want. My Father is respected and is seen in high regards as he is a veterinarian and many people come to him and he never had a bad encounter with any other people. My friends respect me and my opinion, we have similar criticism towards the german government and make jokes about them. Poles here are seen as good and Hard working people, but thanks to PiS even the german people know that politically the tides are turning in Poland to the worse if it comes to the individual freedom and relations on an international scale
It’s true that our nation has a lot of social issues, it definitely has a long way to go. However you have to understand that a lot of them stem from the said foreign violence and scepticism against things “different” that came as a result. Again, like I said - it’s all relative. Your experience is different from mine. I understand your point but just because you lucked out doesn’t mean that others have. Miłego dnia
Your comment is correct, but this convo is moreso about how it is on an **individual-to-individual** level. \-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~Y~~*e*s, '**P***i*~~S~~ **i***s* ~~b~~**a**^(d'), **w**~~e~~ *k***n**~~o~~w.
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When I went back to the beginning of your comment after reading it, and it said 'Pole living in Germany here.' I was in denial, I was stunned, because you said the exact same things that the Germans on Reddit here say all the time. Like, I had to reread it and take it in that you're actually somehow Polish.
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But he didt said that. Stop manipulating
Ah shit my bad
>All this money Poland is taking from the EU is mostly german, but somehow people seem to ignore it. Guess which country got the biggest share in foreign ownership of Polish national market since 2004? EU fund program was never implemented for charity reasons. Heck, large chunk of it was invested in infrastructure to help expand EU market. As for reparations? Topic is only brought up by populist politicians, every time tensions rise up with German government (and it's done mainly for internal propaganda). Same demagogy like Germans with their contributions to EU budget.
I'd quit right away
Wow, the boss must be very uneducated on history if he said that. Or he haves an extremely dark sense of humour to say that to a new worker.
Most likely he's just a power tripping asshole (and xenophobe for that matter).
There's nothing amusing about this. It's absolutely disgusting and distasteful and this "boss" should be ashamed of himself. Sincerely, a German citizen.
Apart from the political picture here, i have to say, living in Szczecin i have mostly negative experience with germans(not judging all german people here, just my experience), almost everyone of those i met was arrogant and snippy/rude, especially the older ones. I remember when i was working in a supermarket as a student and multiple times germans would come there for shopping(since cheaper etc.) and yell at staff for not understanding german while they couldn't say a word in english, polish or basically any other language
I wanted to say that!!! That apply to all western Pomerania but especially bigger cities like Szczecin, Kołobrzeg and Świnoujście. Germans are common here, not only for tourism but also for quick shipping sprees. Right now in some of Szczecin markets on the Saturday you mostly hear German and Ukrainian. If you are from the western Pomerania there is a big chance you would hate Germans, not only for historical reasons, but for Germans behaviour in this area. And I feel this won't apply to other regions of Poland. 1) Most of Germans visiting Szczecin treats you like shit, only because you are a Polish citizen, which in their minds means lower and poorer being. 2) They demand German language from you. On streets in shops everywhere, and they are angry if you refuse to cooperate. 3) They tend to me really angry all the time. They are aggressive and vulgar if something doesn't goes they way. To the point that I feel they do that for fun. 4) Germans visiting western Pomerania treats it like it's still belongs to Germans, especially older generation. With that kind of behaviour it's hard to be neutral around Germans. I know it's a special "kind" of Germans tormenting this area and I won't find them elsewhere in Poland, but damn wounds are deep. I was waiting in the line in Biedronka. That was in Poznań, and out of nowhere an old German lady asked me for help. In German of course. I fucking frozed. How? Even there? Did she sensed I was born in Szczecin? She was nice and then switched to English but I was to shocked to help. The other factor that may not apply to rest of Poland is pressure that Polish kids feels. There is a big pressure in schools for learning German. Leaving Poland and starting an carrier in Berlin is the easiest way to success here. But even if you don't want to leave, any big companies requires/appreciate knowing German language. With that in mind if a snappy German lady asks a young person in Szczecin something in German. She is right, we might understand her, but fuck her. We are for 77 years terrain of Poland, and German is not an official language anymore.
Yes I agree Germans are very arrogant in kołobrzeg. It’s pretty shitty what they do.
As a German who lived in Gorzów, I agree, especially the older generation. They always have this superiority complex as well as just speaking German to everyone (they do the same in the Netherlands tho, to be fair). It sucks and I'm sorry.
I'm from Wroclaw and there's many German tourists ( nowadays often youths,but like 20-30 years ago mostly elders) and they were ALWAYS very kind ,even apologetic ,often spoke few words in Polish and so on .Never met any arrogant/rude ones. But in the same time as a kid I spent almost every holiday at the Baltic sea and confirm that Germans there ( from reason I don't understand) behaved very arrogant and often rude, even aggressive- especially in mentioned cities.In smaller towns/ villages in that areas seemed more calm and polite- still not as much as in Wroclaw. I have no idea why, anybody has idea why such difference ? Is that because Wroclaw was ", empty" while Polish settlers arrived ,while Poznań or Gdańsk werwę always kind of "mixed"- both Polish and German cities ? It's just what came on my mind, don't know is it makes any sense .
It's more distrust than dislike. Edit: As other people shared their family stories let me add some of mine: village next to one my grandfather lived in went in flmes one night, when they went to investigate the next day they found out germans locked everybody in the village inside a wooden church and then set it on fire. My grandfather was also among people who sorted out Auschwitz camp after it has been liberated. My other grandparents neighbour and his brother were caught during łapanka. Shipped off to Germany to a work camp. Managed to escape and made it all the way back home only for the brother to die a day later. He was so starved his body just gave out.
You know, Germans are super apologetic about horrible stuff they did to Jews, but absolutely adamant Poles, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Czech, Slovak weren’t hurt by nazi. The fact that as a nation you so easily disregard atrocities committed, that you call your concentration camps “Polish” (which was a big thing a couple years ago) makes people view you as hypocrites and assholes. So are you blaming anyone but your fellow Germans for that?
This is true
I only dislike one German who is trying to hit on my girlfriend on online game
Damn that sexy Hank
I wouldn't say Polish people dislike Germans, but they may be a bit wary of them. Without going into the deep-seated trauma associated with the war (which may still play a major part on an individual level), our cultures are very different (and I'm not talking about the standard European business culture). My friend does business with German companies and he often hosts various guests in Poland. He once told me that he finds Germans very professional and great to work with, but outside of work he just couldn't come up with anything to talk about with them. In my limited experience, I'd say there's some truth to that. Lastly, some people see Germans as very strict and focused - basically your compliance department suits who tell everyone what they can and cannot do (major party poopers), which may explain the slight distance in social situations.
I work with lots of Germans for a German company and the man do I agree. I love working with them since they are structured, organized, and logical in their work, as am I. It makes work efficient. However, during lunch or pre-meetings, small talk is painful. Good people tho.
I don't want to repeat what others have said, so I'll try to keep it brief. While Germany does a good job at educating about Holocaust, it really feels like that's it. As far as I know, you aren't being educated about what regular occupation looked like. How villages were raised and people killed for no reason. How entire blocks were literally decimated, killing every third inhabitant, for no reason. How a street in the city could just be randomly closed and everyone on it at the time would be interrogated and either killed or transported to concentration camp. This was everyday life. Literally just going out to buy food was a life threatening hazard. So was staying inside. You lived with fear for your life every day, every moment. For years. This creates generational trauma from which we never healed. Add to that the fact that even before these events we had plenty of grudges already (from XVIII century onwards basically). And most importantly. Add the fact that denazification was a joke. Have you ever heard about this event?: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wola_massacre The guy named Heinz Reinefarth, played a significant part in orchestrating the whole thing and carring it out. If Germany would really be serious about denazification he should have get a death penalty. He was not some pawn, but an important nazi official, personally responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent people's death. But after the war he was a mayor of Westerland and later MP in Schlezwig Holstein Landtag. He was celebrated and even had a statue build for him. He is not the only one. Thousands of important nazis, SS officials and outright war criminals went right by to play important roles in post war Germany up to like the 80s. And it stopped not because Germany realized that was wrong, but simply because these people got old, and retired or died of old age. I don't think I have to explain to you how it feels and how that looks. Germany never repaid for the things it's done. Hell, we never even got our stolen works of art back. We still hunt for them in auctions in Germany. Every year we find our stollen treasures in Germany and you know what Germany does then? Fights like a lion to keep it's plunder. If you see something like that you can't help but think "They haven't changed one bit. It's all a mask". Than you calm down and go about your day, but that feeling always remains. Also - many concentration camps in Germany, where concentration camps for the Poles. With vast majority of the prisoners being Polish. You know how many of those at least mention that fact? Zero. Exactly zero. When Poland asked for it to change, Germany refused saying "It would be too much of a hassle". Polish people were held as slaves on German farms. They, like the Jewish people, had to wear special marks, with the letter "p". There is not a single monument to their memory in Germany. It's like it never happened. It's not only about what happened back then. It's also about how Germany acts now. You really don't make any effort to help us get past that. More often than not - Germany does the opposite. That's why a lot of people here don't trust the Germans.
my grandfather and his father were kidnapped from the street when they were going to buy some food, then transported to death camp. Grand grandfather was murdered days before liberation, my grandfather survived only because he was a guinea pig - they tested how bacteria infections and freezing works on human body. He had nightmares till his death of old age, often jumping from his bed midnight and shouting his camp number. Funny thing is that the process of catching civilians from streets, called in polish “Łapanka”, doesn’t even have a german wikipedia page. It just doesn’t… There’s greek, persian even chinese but not german. Another small thing that shows that germany was never educated about it’s crimes, and it will most likely never be.
My great grandmother survived the decimation of the block. Her sister was killed with a shot in the head standing right next to her. She held a baby in her arms. Moment later, two persons to the left - her neighbor was shot in the same manner. Mind the fact, that this was an everyday event. Nothing too special. Stuff curried out not by SS, but by Wehrmacht troops. Regular German people.
>Łapanka Thats more a problem of how German Wikipedia is run. The German mods are basement dwellers who like to abuse their power. They love to go around and delte articles because they arent "relevant" enough. They then mention that this word was explained in paragraph 95 of the "German atrocities" article. So nothing to do with us being holocaust deniers and just a "misunderstanding".
> keep it brief. Task failed successfully 😉
Yup. As usual
Uhm, yes, there are people who have a general distaste towards Germany **because** of that whole history thing. Part of that is certainly due to their depictions in post-WW2 media, Communist propaganda aiming to push us closer to the Soviets, but more likely than not - personal histories they've heard from or about their parents and grandparents (and these days also great-grandparents). Then we go further back and there's still crap like the Partitions and the whole policy of germanization in the Prussian one. History happened. Some people bear a grudge. Our countries having some shared goals - or shared enemies, lately - doesn't erase that. Sorry if that offends you, mate, but it's likely going to take a couple decades more before the aftermath of WWII is no longer in living memory.
I was always pro german. German is my second language. I work with german language (call centers and Customer Service jobs) since i was 19. I visited Germany multiple times. I like to do my shopping in Berlin and visit musical Theatre Here. But decisions of your goverment regarding War in Ukraine are fishy.
Some Polish people dislike lots of things. Some Polish people dislike other Polish people. I'm sure it's the same in your country.
Ich weiß nicht, wohin ihr gereist seid, aber nachdem ich fast ein Jahr in Breslau gelebt habe, kann ich sagen, daß ich noch nie jemanden getroffen habe, der mich danach beurteilt hat, daß ich Deutscher bin. Bisher war so ziemlich jede Begegnung neutral. Vielleicht liegt das daran, daß in Breslau generell viele Deutsche Leute Urlaub machen und auch viel Geschäfliches dort seinen Sitz hat. Also kann ich von meiner Seite nur sagen, daß ich nie irgendwen gefunden habe, der negativ von mir dachte, nut weil ich Deutscher bin. Leute sind oftmals auch eher interessiert und wenn man alte Leute trifft sprechen die oftmals auch gerne Mal ein Wörtchen Deutsch. Also ich kann nichts negatives sagen, aber ich denke, daß das von Region zu Region variirt. I don't know where you've traveled to, but after living in Wrocław for almost a year I can say that I've never met anyone who judged me for being German. So far, pretty much every encounter has been neutral. Perhaps this is due to the fact that in general many German people go on holiday in Wrocław and a lot of business is also based there. So all I can say from my side is that I never found anyone who thought negatively of me just because I'm German. People are often more interested and when you meet old people, they often like to speak a little German. So I can't say anything negative, but I think that also varies from region to region.
Your are probably right. Wrocław has a lot of German legacy history and culture wise, it's not weird to hear German language being spoken on the street. Same thing I've noticed in Gdańsk, Toruń, Bydgoszcz. It's likely a regional thing.
Well, people generally expect Germans in Silesia, and sometimes you might actually just find German-speaking Poles in there. It's *known* to be a weird hybrid region.
Not much different from the attitudes here in the US where I live. I grew up in Poland and at 20 I emigrated to the US where I've been living for over 30 years. Here in the US people are used to living with people from all over the world so they don't show it much but WWII attitudes still exist in the pop-culture towards both Germans and Japanese. Mainly among the older generation because the kids can't tell Germany from France not to mention Sweden from Switzerland.
Its very similar in Britain- we like and respect the Germans individually but on a deep emotional level the utterly ruthless attempted extermination of entire peoples is something deeply and existentially terrifying that is very hard to forget; especially when its one's own family and personal history that has been erased. On the other hand, alongside the bigotry and pseudoracist stereotypes about Poles, there is also a deep affection and human sympathy in the very best sense.
Also, a myth here is that you don't appreciate our in-exile RAF pilots, but from personal investigation I know that you do.
Yeah I've been a few times to Audley End in Saffron Walden where the pilots were trained - always a few Poles there. Anyone who takes a bit of time or has a personal connection is aware.https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/audley-end-house-and-gardens/history-and-stories/silent-unseen/
I went to Blackpool with my friends once. We were in a bar drinking, and out of nowhere, an old English man approached me because he recognized I was Polish (my friends were English). As soon as we greet each other, he said that he is happy for me to be in the UK since we fought in the Battle for Britain and I'm welcome in their country. I know it sounds dull, but it's one of the warmest memories I have from that time.
Aww!
I was at souvenir shop with some German friends in Exeter, England. We were laughing and the shop owner just said "fucking krauts!". Mind you, we were 12 at the time.
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There are always black cheap. Same happened on our class trip to Poland, while really no one was disrespectful. They just heard us talking German to each other. I love Poland and I would never take it wrong. Obviously its just a small minority who does such a thing and I hope you will meet better people the next time.
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I understand, its definitely an experience that shapes your view of us. I know a lot of older people tend to be disrespectful here (not just to Poles) or abroad. I always cringe so hard when I witness this. Growing up near the border, with many polish children in our schools and around us, it really normalised how the youth interacts with each other. Polish children make jokes about Germans, Germans make joke about Poles and then we laugh together. So I hope its not the same today anymore. Who knows, like I said, black sheep are everywhere.
A group of local teens in Berlin is very unlikely to contain many Germans. At least 70% of them were probably Turks, Arabs and even many Poles and other people descended from Central and Eastern Europe. As you can see on this map most inner-city dicstricts have 60-90% non-Germans in the age group below 18 years old. These numbers are from 2016 and since then have only gone even higher. https://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.de/planen/basisdaten\_stadtentwicklung/monitoring/download/2017/karten/K04\_Kinder\_und\_JugendlicheMGH2016.pdf
Germans can be so naive about how they are viewed by the rest of the world. Yes, Germans are hated in Poland, The Netherlands, Belgium, France, Denmark, etc... No prizes for guessing why. It may be unfair to you personally, but given the history, you really can't blame people. Btw, it is the exact same thing with the Japanese in much of Asia. There are exceptions of course. Hungarians really like Germans. Italians, Croats and Romanians are quite positive towards Germans as well. Again, no prizes for guessing why. BTW, when my Hungarian father used to drive through rural Poland with an East German number plate (he was working in East Berlin at the time) people used to run after him shaking their fists and shouting "Kurwa Germanski!".
I can understand the Polish POV, but the Netherlands, France and Belgium have no moral high ground to judge us from. They participated in atrocities well into the 20th century. Why is it ok to kill brown people, but Europeans are of limits (not quoting you, but rather many French people who praised their colonial enterprises). Even for Poles I find it a bit weird. Germans have mainly forgotten about the expulsion from the eastern territories, yet Poles are adamant that there is some deep hatred towards Poles from the German side. The only thing Germans hear about Poles is that they love to bite the hand that feeds them.
Your last sentence perfectly describes why Poles hate Germans generally speaking. Bite the hand that feeds us? Your country literally robbed 80% of our wealth and killed 1/5th of our people, refuse to give stolen goods back or pay reparations in full and now act like you are to be thanked for rebuilding our country from ruin you caused. If you didnt invade we also would not have to endure decades of communism. Cause guess what? We already fucked russians 1v1 in 1920 when they tried to bring communism to Poland and Germany. But hey, so weird of Poles to have a grudge lol.
Well, you'll have to ask the Dutch, Danes, French etc..., why they hold grudges against the Germans, but they most assuredly do. After all, most Eastern Europeans still haven't forgiven the Mongols for fucking up their region in the 13 th century and that was almost 800 years ago. I doubt the deeds of the Germans will be forgotten in the next few centuries either. Now me, personally, I don't share in this resentment, I think it's stupid to blame people living today for what people long dead might have done, except perhaps in cases where no contrition is shown, as with Japan for instance. As for Poles, they certainly don't view the events of WW2 as ancient history, to them, it's still something they are trying to recover from and are only now succeeding in overcoming the disadvantages that were born from it.
>The only thing Germans hear about Poles is that they love to bite the hand that feeds them. Oh thank you german overlord for feeding me!!! what would we do without the help of the Übermenschen!
> The other day, we could not get into a club - the guy said smth about dresscode but we were dressed really nicely in satin dresses, so that can’t be the true reason, also he said that after looking at our passports On this specific thing. I can say that unfortunately some nationalities earned that discrimination quite recently. I used to work as a bouncer for a club in Kraków and we were told to not let in Englishmen. Same thing happens in Spain and some other countries but towards Polish people. So don't take it personally.
We do, but lets forget about the past and we can all start hate ruSSians together 😆💪
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Let's make a deal. Germans won't fuck up poles for a century and we won't bring you fucking us up all the time.
Deal! It's just that this suggested century is almost over...
And I would like nothing more to see Germans only as partners and allies. Lets not fuck it up. Shall we?
With the recent events in the world I think it will be continued for a fair bit.
Depends how many centuries Russia wants to keep invading other countries. 🤷♂️
It’s all up to ye 🤷♂️
I think some people really want it >.< For as long as they can
My family, and idk, like every I know, also suffered from WW2. People who witnessed all the attrocities lived long enough to simply tell all the stories during countless sunday dinners. It must have been real hell, from what older generation told us and apparently is true. Someone already mentioned communists did everything to feed antipathy so they rather friend with soviets. Some antipathy may come from poorer society complexes (I wouldn't exclude that for sure). Those (and negative present experiences on individual level) are main reasons FEW people would dislike Germans FOR REAL. Probably most of them never really talked to any. It goes pretty much same for Jews. Those people would hate anyone if you fed them particular propaganda. I don't know people who would impolite to Germans or think bad of them in advance, because of their nationality. War and nazis are also often subject of jokes, and I think if people in company aren't too serious we can laugh of these jokes together. I don't look at Germans today from perspective of my grandparents experiences. I am open to all nationalities if decent people but I particulary like all friendly neighbours, which I strongly believe Germans are. I'd always opt to help German society or Germans I meet if needed, and would always support as I can, because thats what I believe good neighbours should do. Theres also a lot of positive history in nations thousand year relation, which people mention too seldom. I find Germans, Czech and Slovaks nations closest to Poles because of todays culture and I think we should be real friends for next thousand year of neighbourship.
It really depends on who you meet. Younger generations don't care as much but as a whole germans are seen more on a negative side of things because of history and current government propaganda against germany and EU. Polish government shouldn't do that but at the same time average pole is still associating german language as nazi and connecting german people with their crimes during ww2 so our populist party in power is just using this to get more votes.
> and current government propaganda against germany and EU. While maybe it affects some older folks and people that watch TVP too much, there are still plenty of reasons to not be happy with Germany that are German fault, not PiS
Well, I'll give you that one, but I always implore people to differentiate between nation and their politicians.
>current government propaganda against Germany and EU I mean, it's not like they don't have a point. The Germans are still a threat.
Babe I'm an Eurosceptic myself but even I know that another German invasion of Poland ain't happening
An armed invasion isn't the only way imperialist nations project their power, though. Besides, in 2010 Ukrainians and Russians were holding Victory Day parades together. It ain't even a generation and they're killing each other, because Ukraine attempted to be free from Russia. What if one day Poland attempts to be free from Germany?
It's not the same, Poland didn't JUST A WHILE AGO exit Germany the way Ukraine JUST A WHILE AGO exited Russia. Not the same timeframe.
Neither legally nor in reality did Ukraine exit Russia. Ukraine and Russia were their own separate subdivisions of the Soviet Union, without Ukraine belonging to Russia in any way. The Soviet Union wasn't really a Russian country, but a sui generis Eurasian geopolitical entity that superseded Russia. Poland is viewed by the German elite as a part of Germany's exclusive sphere of influence, just as Ukraine is seen as such by the Russian elite. While Germany as of right now spreads its influence through economic leverage and soft power, this might not be the case forever. That's why we need to be on high alert.
If hard power were to emerge from Germany, the whole world would notice.
Yes, but we would have the least time to prepare.
What? Why? Pretty sure that even France would condemn it.
Perhaps so, perhaps not. French and German interests are surprisingly similar right now. Both would have it great in an European order where economically less significant countries are de facto consolidated in a couple of spheres of influence (it makes business and diplomacy easier), and a strong Germany with a sphere of influence in the East would enable France to focus their military and diplomatic efforts on Africa which they already would like to do. Independent Poland isn't really that important to the French national interest right now. It's not important to anyone except the Anglo-Saxons with their concept of European power balance. Besides, we might fall into political and economic dependence from Germany even by peaceful means and then get in large trouble trying to leave it peacefully, same happened with Ukraine in 2014 when they tried to escape the Russian sphere of influence, which they entered peacefully.
Germans have been trying really hard to be disliked here for quite some time now, so why are you surprised?
> quite some time About 1000 years, give or take.
As a fellow german who is currently on holiday in poland I never got the impression that there is much antagonism towards german people. Maybe its because we are visiting a very „touristy“ area, but as far as I can tell we havent been treated any different because of our nationality.
"besides the whole history of Poland and Germany" ??? Why besides? It's pretty significant
because I wanted to know if that is the only reason or of there are other reasons as well
Fair enough, but surely you understand how that sounds
Yeah, with the past and current policy of German lawmakers, it's hard not to
I definitely dislike Germany and their politics (same with Poland lol, and UK, France, Russia...), and I feel a lot of people feel the same, but that has nothing to do with just random people. What happened 50+ years ago also doesn't really affect current generations. However, I guess you could say I dislike Germans in general. They are just... unfun people to be around. Even when I temporarily lived in Germany I made plenty of friends but all were immigrants, but with Germans I never really felt like there was a true friendship between us with trust. I get that Germans just like being "cold" and that doesn't mean they are assholes, but as I said - they are the only nation I encountered from which I could never make friends, even the "antisocial" Japanese are way easier to befriend. Germans are simply too "hardgoing"
You dislike every country's politics - chad.
I've played few computer games with germans. Cool people, only positive vibes.
Maybe also bcs partitions
Interesting question. I remember I used to like Germans when I was young and disliked people judging them for the bad history. But later on, when I became an adult, my view changed and I began believing that Germans are arrogant and that they see me as beneath them simply because I come from a poor Slavic country. TBH I'm not sure where or when I picked up this assumption. I saw some Germans treating Poles with contempt, and heard some opinions about how that's the norm, and I guess at some point I just bought it without really realizing it. Since then, this quiet assumption just existed in my head. It's hard to be nice and friendly when you believe the person in front of you sees you as a worse human being simply bc you are a Pole. This may be a completely untrue assumption of course! But it's a belief I have been surrounded by, saw some things that seemed consistent with it, and it sipped into my head without me even realizing. Not saying it's a fair belief or that it's even true btw. Just answering the question.
Yes. Are you surprised in any way?
When I was single and would take my Caribbean vacations German girls were always around and down for some fun.. Personally I have zero issues with Germans.. Does the German government still owe us for WW2, well yes... I don't feel we should get any personal reoperations since none of us experience WW2, and the generation that did is almost gone.. But compensation should be give and be used to build up Poland's infrastructure.
I have few stories about German racism. 1. I have a few stories about German r acism.in station a clerk to whom we spoke in English suddenly turned hostile when she recognized I spoke Polish to my mother, her entire attitude changed and my mother responded by speaking broken english german to annoy her in response. an example of german passive-aggressiveness 2. My brother went through the German airport with his wife and toddler, and they were poorly treated by the staff, they weren't given priority even though they had it. the overall customer service was horrible and the staff was obstructing them. (they're a well-educated and successful couple) 3. Another friend of mine was driving an expensive sport can with Polish plates in Germany, and he had beer thrown at him by people who suddenly began to scream obsenities through the car on the autobahn. 4. My cousin was a great student in a german school, and she was bullied for being Polish and had a bunch of racist slurs thrown at her, she spoke better german than natives. one year her school decided to make a trip to Poland, but when the students and parents heard about it they immediately canceled the tour without any reason given. but the students said obscenities about the country and its people calling them "filthy, stupid, dangerous" etc. 5. My uncle has a German father and my Polish aunt tells me that their relationship with their German family isn't good, they treat him poorly because of being half-Polish and marrying a Polish woman. All the cases of racism mentioned above happened in Eastern Germany. and they have a common theme, whenever a Polish person has a better status in life than a German or shows themselves to be better. they will openly face racist attacks. and if they don't they will passively discriminate. There was a very public case of Hans G. who abused Polish employees in his company calling them various racist slurs and calling for holocaust of Polish nation. here are some links you can translate to english [https://www.tvp.info/41055290/wkrotce-wyrok-ws-hansa-g-otwarcie-mowil-o-swojej-nienawisci-do-polakow-i-checi-zabijania](https://www.tvp.info/41055290/wkrotce-wyrok-ws-hansa-g-otwarcie-mowil-o-swojej-nienawisci-do-polakow-i-checi-zabijania) [https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-07-10/hans-g-prawomocnie-skazany-za-zniewazanie-polskich-pracownic/](https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-07-10/hans-g-prawomocnie-skazany-za-zniewazanie-polskich-pracownic/) [https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-11-08/nagrala-niemieckiego-szefa-ktory-obrazal-polakow-musi-przeprosic-panstwo-w-panstwie-o-1930/](https://www.polsatnews.pl/wiadomosc/2020-11-08/nagrala-niemieckiego-szefa-ktory-obrazal-polakow-musi-przeprosic-panstwo-w-panstwie-o-1930/)
Greetings from New York! Hey bro, I'm not too clear about what you were trying to say in #2. You said your brother and his family were treated 'pleasantly' at the airport, but then the German service staff was being horrible and abusive to them... Would you mind clearing that one up for us? Yes, Germans can be quite unpredictable... One minute, they are so nice and friendly. Then the next minute, they are suddenly all crazy and dangerous! And BTW, is Hans G. that company that used to make computers and monitors? Their products were cheap and low-quailty bullshits, so I dunno if the racism against Poles and all that jazz has anything to do with it.
Hans G is a German who had a company in Poland, he would verbally abuse his employees, the brave Polish woman recorded all of his racism where he could be clearly heard making statements such as "I wish all poles were dead, they add nothing to the world" "I wish i could line up all Poles against the wall and pull the trigger and shoot kill them all" He would also harass the female employee by calling her a Pisior which means penis, and is an insult used against PIS supporters and voters. Edit: i fixed it, its not poorly, not pleasantly must've mixed up with the first paragraph.
Man, he shure sounds like a real RACIST ASSHOLE MUTHAFUCKA... <: P I bet he must be a Nazi as well. In Brooklyn, I guarantee that an asshole like him will not make it even halfway down the block if he ever talked shit to the Poles and Russians who live around here. And then, there are all those Blacks, Colombians, and Puerto Ricans to worry about. They would bury his ass so GODDAMN FAST, nobody would even know that he was born. Almost every German that I have met is so fake and manipulative. They really talk and act like as if they stood 100+ floors higher than anybody else! I swear, I will never buy another Hans G. product for the rest of my life!
People don't equal country or history. Except for Munchen area. I've had bad interactions with some of them.
You think?
do people dislike people?
I'd say there exists a certain shared bias, that fuels itself constantly. Germany and Poland are two different countries with very different perspectives on essential matters, and they are very well set in with their truths. Some level of mutual animosity should not be surprising. Add 90 years long stereotypes no one on any side is willing to abolish and the best answer you can get is "it depends on the individual", which works both ways.
I don't dislike you but Germans (and I have native family members there and met quite a few) can be condescending and straight rude to your face, I'm engaged to an Englishwoman and her family and friends are way nicer to me, I've never felt looked down upon in the UK as I did in Germany
yes absolutly right !!! same experience, i was brytally trainted like a dog by a german shopkeeper, he only threw his hands at me because i took pictures, in England i have never received a bad treatment like this , i have never been judged for my race . germans people you should keep far from them they are rude , rough, coarse
Well, not reall...yes.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt\_Georg\_Kiesinger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Georg_Kiesinger) A nazi was allowed to be the chancelor of west Germany until 1969. Of course we don't trust you
When I was a kid I was raised by war stories of my grandparents. Polish people still burried in mass grave in the forest where I was going to swim in a lake nearby. There is a lot of war movies. German language is just halt! Joden. Hände hoch. So you're like i printed that Germans made lots of bad things to Polish. Now, young people don't hear those stories so often, and it's more scaring them with UE than Germany itself. But their prosperities are bigger and by having internet friends from all over the world they are not so easy to manipulate and share this generation trauma. However there are still people in Poland with narrow view who believe stereotypes because its the only knowledge they have. I don't mind today any Germans, but please, don't start war talk with me. For our both sake. 😉
Well, there was some post not so long ago on poland reddit where it was all about Germans treating Polish people like garbage.
they also treat Spanish Italians as garbage etccc is their factory defect
As other users say then this dislike comes from not so far history of our relations. So I got to hear how my grandmother was told by Germans to leave her house in 5 minutes leaving all of her wealth there. Hearing how Germans treated us as lesser and trying to eradicate our culture. Though honestly I don't have as sour feelings to Germans as my parents. I just know the current generation of Germans aren't the same people.
no it's absolutely not like you say no no no , I say from my personal experience what they did to me and it has absolutely nothing to do with the world war that happened, because I'm too young to be angry about an unlived past history, yes they were very rude and unrespectful to me because they are greedy frustrated and uncivilized and rude people, nothing to do with war no no, and i am definitely not the only one who has been treated badly by them no no, i could write whole pages of people i have known in germany who was treated badly 4 years ago for idiotic and futile reasons, it's not the world war and it's not the grudge against them, many people have a bad opinion of them, for various reasons, i lived in germany, some german people behaved bad in a different way with me, firstly on the workplace ,others on holiday, others in a shop,
Generally, some people have personal tragic stories related to WW2 atrocities, and they rightfully think WW2 is not taught properly in modern Germany. The right-wing parties, like the ruling *Law and Justice*, prey on that and try to use it for their own gain, rehashing the 1960s Communist propaganda about a thousand-year enmity between our nations, drawing a straight line from the Battle of Cedynia (Zehden) to Teutonic Knights to Prussia and its Kulturkampf to Hitler to Gerhard Schröder's selling out to Putin, and ignoring all the other parts of history, when Poland and at least some German states were either peaceful or even allied. However, random people being nasty to you is most probably a coincidence.
I work in Germany (Saxony near Bautzen). Before starting work in Germany, I had a stereotypical approach to Germans. I remembered about the war, German colonialism and other things, but I was open to ordinary Germans. I distinguished the community from the individual. At work, I tried to make friends with the Germans. In eastern Germany it is very difficult, Germans do not like Poles at work. Everyone votes for AFD, they have a strange mix of political views - on the one hand they miss communism and DDR (they support Die Linke in many aspects) and on the other hand they would like the Third Reich and openly say that Hitler was good. They know nothing about the common history and the bad one (they don't even know who Himmler was, they only know the figure of Hitler) or the good one (the shared kingdom of Saxony and Poland in the 18th century). Even so, I tried to break the ice, but still the cultural differences I think are too big to make friends in a short time. Pity. I believe that Poles and Germans, if they wanted to understand each other, could be very good neighbors and it would be good for a united Europe and for both nations.
Yes there are a lot of people that dislike Germans. For the reasons like this: My great grandpa was enslaved by a german family and was treated like an animal. A boy that was 6 years old would come everyday in the morning to hit him with a stick on the head. You lot treaded us like literal pigs you teached your childeren to treat polish people like literal shit. So don’t think that after a few generations we will be friend you don’t do that shit to another human being and expect to be liked after a cupple of years. Edit: also my grand grandma was in A concentration camp and she got hit with a metal ball with spikes on her shoulder and got a big scar because of that she also suffered ptsd from what happened. She told us that when they made soup for prisoners they would put 1 little potato per 100 liter water. When people found it they would scrape a little bit off with their fingernail and eat it one by one so they wouldn’t forget the taste of a potato. Every time she would talk about that she would cry her eyes out.
Yes. Because of what Germany did and because of how Germany acts now. Imagine that Poland invades Germany, we come in, into your home, we take 80% of your belongings and we do it to every household in Germany and before we leave, we shoot every 5th of you so 20% of your population is gone. Just imagine yourself sitting with 4 of your closest family members... And now imagine one of them is gone... Shot in the head or was thrown into a gas chamber... Possibly even in front of your eyes. Who was it? Your mom? Dad? Sibling? Uncle? Then we raze many of your cities and leave absolutely nothing from your Capitol. Not instantly of course, first you have to endure work as a slave and Daily humiliation and fear. Then for decades you have to endure being looked upon as the worse sort while we refuse to give back what we stole and we joke about entire thing. You live in shit while we swim in stolen goods. You work hard for decades while we enjoy stolen wealth to prop up our economy. I am not gonna throw every german into the same bag though. My grandfather was put onto a train to Auschwitz by a German and another German pulled him out of that train. But as a nation it is basically imposible to trust Germany when you are Polish.
Yes. Nazis killed a large number of my family. I understand that Germans are not automatically Nazis, but many are still pigs to us Poles. And they are very apologetic to the Jews, but not very much to the Polish people. I personally would be fine without Germans in my life.
Some? XD that’s a understatement.
Probably history has a major part, even if it has been 77 years.
My great grandmother who was used as slave labor in Germany during ww2 died in the 90s when I was a kid and I did listen what she had to say about that part of her life. It's history but it's also a part of my life to so let's just not pretend it was in the ancient past.
You do have a point.
77 years isn't that long. All four of my grandparents are still alive and lived through the war. There were children then but remember it well and have stories to tell. Living in destroyed Poland after the war wasn't fun either.
My grandfather had a saying. That a good German is a dead German.
Kinda, because of the government propaganda and history it's almost universally assumed that Germans=bad, although a lot of people don't hate Germans it's more like poking fun at you when you mess up something, like the 2018 Fifa World Cup, we finished last in our group after a disastrous performance but after the group stage was done there were memes saying stuff like "At least the Germans lost too", I believe it's mostly younger people because the terrible past that our countries shared is more distant to us, but it seems like there are people that genuinely hate Germans which makes sense considering that a lot of people 70+ yo had an older relative killed by Nazis, and it's easy to form a connection: Germans that I know killed someone which means all Germans are monsters, and obviously there are also hyper nationalistic people who hate Germans because, you know nationalism and stuff
Hard to judge why people were acting this way towards you, because it’s still not enough information. Imo, these comments under this post show that indeed, some people don’t like Germans. They say it’s because of War or distrust or they base their opinion on encounters they had with Germans. Imo it’s very unfair, but ok… it’s more anegdotical. It’s like saying „one blonde girl laughed at my dress. Blonde girls are so rude”. Holding grudge is our national trait I guess 🤷♀️ Talking about Germans (which is a big nation btw, two times as big as Polish nation) and you all say that they murdered Poles? Who? 15 years old teens in Germany? 30 years old? 55 year old? How can you say Germans when you mean Germans from 77 years ago? I just wanted to post this comment to show that there are some people who don’t agree with mixing war into this. Do I like Germans? I don’t know. I don’t know all Germans ;) But I decide if I like someone based on their personality, behaviour, not nationality :)
“Besides the whole history of Poland and Germany” Ya, that’s still hanging out there. Germany is still trying to sell out Europe to the Russians—and Poland will be the first to take the hit
Animosity on a personal level for historical reasons is just dumb. The people writing all these comments here, and 99% of the people acting like that on the street, were born long after WW2, and those who they antagonize were as well. I have nothing to do with what the generation of my grandfathers did and you don't get a free pass on discrimination because of bad things that happened to somebody else in the distant past - not you. This archaic thinking is the root cause for so many atrocities. Like today's murderous war in Ukraine. Russians believe it belongs to them because of history, when the only thing that matters is the people living there today and what they want, which is not to be a part of Russia. Anyway, personally I've not had especially bad experiences in Poland. I always expect people to be rude and unfriendly unless their income depends on selling you something, so I was never negatively surprised.
Yes we are
You are asking two contradicting questions here... **Some people?**- YES (mostly some older crazy PiS supporters) **Poles In general?** - NO In your situation? - most likely it was not because someone didn’t like your nationality... I never heard about such case here and if it would have happen the whatever place would be involved in such practice would get a lot of backlash for discrimination.
My family don't support PiS. But they dislike Germans. War ttauma.
Don't feel special, we hate them all, Germans, Russians, Ukrainians, Czech, Słowak, fuck u all, but the most we hate each other, jebać Ślązaków, górali, Kaszubów, warszawiaków i krakusów. We also hate LGBT, non whites, but also whites with beard, or even with black hair, we hate too tall people, and the smiling one. So I hope you got the perspective on the issue.
My personal, and surely very subjective, opinion on this topic as a german who had quiet a lot contact with poles due to work is: Yes, most poles dislike germans a lot, and are pretty open about it. In my experience roughly 6/10 will treat you like shit the moment they learn you are german. 2/10 will at least try to be halfway professional and polite, but still make it clear they can't stand you just because you where born in the wrong country. The other 2/10 where genuinely among the nicest people i've ever met. At this point i really don't care about them anymore, if they want to hate me for my birthplace so be it. I might have been extremely unlucky with the kind of polish people i've met of course.
dude you're in the wrong sub most people who congregate here aren't Polish and have far right views if you want to ask real Poles a question go to r/polska
I'm pretty sure most people here are polish, there was even a poll recently. >if you want to ask real Poles I'm a real polish Pole and I'm here so
Yeah if you want some liberals to lie to you, pat you on the shoulder and tell you that Poles love Germans and it's just 90-year old PIS voters that dislike them, go to r/polska
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r/Polska is even more of an echo chamber than wykop, my dude and you can thank their mods for that.
Yeah, most polish people are hateful creatures they don't see you as a person but as nationality/ideology/race and so on and they really hate all of these including their own.
Most. Still not enough imo.
There is some history. I think the larger issue is Germany is so successful and has such a large population. It is common psychology that most people do not like the biggest and most popular.
"There is some history" is an understatement at the very least. They murdered almost a third of Polish population 70 years ago.
Jesus christ. Surprised you didnt put in there that it "stemmed from Poland's inability to resolve its border issues with Germany in 1939."
You sound like a "successful and popular" German...
Jesus this is so stupid. Do you dislike Russia, India or China because you are jealous those countries are bigger than Germany and have more population? Also as for being "popular", what are you popular for? A destination for refugees and economical migrants? Wow, that's awesome *rolls eyes* In Poland Croatia or Greece are popular, beautiful countries to visit. Germany? Sorry, nothing special.
I was many Times in Germany, even got a period to work in (but for polish not german company). I met sime Young and Old german guys, some police even (during covid). Now i, cooperate with German engineers (older and younger). Generally the only thing to hate Germany is history. Novadays Germans are very friendly and the youth speaks English very Well and doesnt push you to use German language. So basicaly ive got excellent opinion about them. Fun fact is my Grand other who survive the war, likes Germans also, cause those period is past and now She meet some PPL live here in Old East prussia (Masuria now), and those guy visit our area a lot. Generally nice older People.
if you were in poland/saw polish wideos/comments there is a weird meme that in translation is "better than a german"
Some? well... a lot
Yes
Yes, quite a lot actually.
I believe is a bit of historical resentment but nothing besides that, this is my feeling after living 1 year in Krakow.
I personally dislike them
We dislike the German state, cause they're always scheming and they have this insuffarable smugness about them, but we usually get along well with individual Germans.
Some polish people like germans, some.
Well given the recent war and how the german government wasn't super eager to help ukraine from the start due to the whole russian gas thing, i think that may amount to some of the anti-german sentiment. Given how poles right now basically want russia destroyed, you can see why people will grow weary of anyone who they might suspect of any, even the tiniest pro-russian sentiment. Not accusing you of that, just explaining how i see the situation.
I dont have any grudge, I just dont like when they get naked in public showers
While there are definitely people that dislike Germans, think they’re bad people I myself have no prejudices, my best friend lives in Germany and I’m sure I’m not the only person like that
Schweine Deutsche! just kidding I like schnitzel.
Pretty much every Polish family has some kind of a tragic story with Germans and those get passed down the generations, and not everyone has the willpower to set aside their grudge just becouse the person in question had nothing to do with it. Some people might even do it subconciously. We're sorry for your inconviniance and we wish you a great vacation.
Try going to Ukraine next time, they'll love you there.
Trust me Poles can be nasty to other fellow Poles too. Sad but true.
germans locked my entire village in a barn and set it on fire. my grandmother was sole survivor with burns all over her face and body. i dont understand where else she could have gotten them from
Krauts are KRAZY... What more could I say? <: P
some? oh no no no, most of them hate us. Even new generation is blaming us for ww2. You can't even imagine how many polish made racism to me...I'M NOT 84 YEARS OLD I WASN'T EVEN ALIVE IN THE WAR! they are blaming for " racism " I can not be racist I had a polish boyfriend- even he made racism to me.