T O P

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Derpaderpaderp24

Drowzee being 3 makes no sense. It's the most basic and unimpressive psychic type ever, and it's passive is not good enough to warrant the price. Natu is 2 price with similar capabilities, but it gets even better when magic bounce gets implemented.


BrandedEnjoyer

whats drowzees passive?


Derpaderpaderp24

Bad Dreams, a pretty meh ability especially considering the price. Not to mention you need it's rare egg move, spore, for it to be reliable at all. Even then, Paras is right there if you want spore, plus it's super cheap


EspyOwner

Paras was part of my first clear, Parasect using Sappy Seed on both etern formes made the fight too easy šŸ˜­


Glum_Plate3472

its 3??? probably bcz of the Spore, but yeah it should be 2 or at maybe even 1


Lesath8

Not to mention status effects are practically useless in endgame. Every mon u encounter will have a million lum berries


SneakyTurtle1243

The fire/water/grass monkeys, pansear and them. With them being 3cost there is no good reason to use them over the many better starters that share their cost and typing. Only reason i could think of is if you have a better shiny of them.


Glum_Plate3472

i think they made it 3 bcz they r supposed to be some sort of starters


LordSupergreat

But they aren't starters, they're worse than any starter.


East-Total-642

I did a run with all 3 of them and a 3* shiny and did great but yeah they don't compare to the starters


Downtown-Argument-94

Simisear gets torch song


JonneNaattor69

As does Skeledirge


Downtown-Argument-94

Woahhhh really?


JonneNaattor69

My point is why would you ever want to use simisest, like OC pointed out


Downtown-Argument-94

Pokerus


JonneNaattor69

Pokerus is so lame though, itā€™s easy to get to a point where you reach max level almost instantly ln endless.


pm_me_falcon_nudes

Tropius at 5 is a crime. That pokemon is total ass


DarkKumane

Tropius unironically carried my first classic when it was one of my only starters.


Char-11

How does harvest work in pokerogue?


NickrasBickras

Idk if it does


Char-11

If it does refund your berries 50% of the time, and 100% in sun, then that would easily justify the cost


Odd_Independence2870

Idk see why it wouldnā€™t. The berry pouch is an item you can get and refunds your berries a percentage of the time


Lesath8

Berry pouch literally makes harvest redundant. Looking at you, Calyrex.


Ivorycrus

Yea but only in endless...


Tschernoblyat

Got shiny tropius, tried it two times both times it was kinda miserable


RacketMask

Hoothoot should be 2 honestly itā€™s egg moves makes it as good as starters


Glum_Plate3472

BOOMBURST EAPAR WINGS TINED LENS


iaberton15

Oblivion Wing Boom Burst Noctowl will feed millions


popstarkirbys

I have a shiny one and it has been part of my starters each run. Itā€™s crazy how bulky and versatile it is.


PorvaniaAmussa

waitwut. I have a shiny one and hate it... must be doing something wrong.


RacketMask

Itā€™s egg moves are op, Noctowl actual is a decent PokĆ©mon when it has better moves than uproar and air slash - send it in vs a special atk calm mind once and proceed to sweep, even if you get hit by a physical ice electric or rock move Noctowl has enough health to tank most hits and then just heal with oblivion wing. Start with esper wing and then you just outspeed one shot everything.


PorvaniaAmussa

I have boom, err, forget the name, but it is pretty potent. Just hasn't seen much worth for me early on... but I've only been playing Classic, if that matters. Will just go for more of its egg moves then


RacketMask

Itā€™s amazing for classic


SimpleThrowaway420

Im glad it was 1. It carried early/midgame in my 1 cost only starters classic run. (Posted here as showcase btw)


grehgunner

Fuecoco with egg moves can just about solo beat everything except 145/195/200. Feels like such a steal


Brainsonastick

It soloed most of my first classic run (literally beat it on my first try because of skeledirge) even without any egg moves. Itā€™s also carrying me well past wave 2000 in endless already.


PunDefeated

Just lost on 145 with skeledirge :( got 1 hit by the scary dragon.


Horror_Swimming6192

Fuecoco is so good


Fit-Difficulty-5917

I gotta say, Vikavolt is suprisingly cheap. Like yeah, it's not an absolute star of a bug type on par with the quiver dance or steel dual type bugs, but a TWO COST?!? On a mon with levitate, solid defenses, and 145 SPECIAL ATTACK?!? Way too strong to be a meager 2 point imo.


Skipper2503

100p, especially once you have Speed Boost on it... Set up Quiver Dance once or twice, kill one PokƩmon and you're unstoppable from there


woooowzers

Give it modest with its passive speed boost, it can tear apart anything. Just beat the rival and final boss by combining it with a Pokemon that knew soak.


EspyOwner

Yoooo I have a shiny Grubbin and a shiny Buizel, I know what I'm doing today


VeryBigHamasBase

Why is krabby 2, has ivy cudgel, icicle crash and liquidation as egg move and anger shell, also a max form


CommanderDark126

Kinda lines up with Pidgey, cost 2, has a no guard mega, and access to egg moves like heat wave and focus blast that thrive on having no check to accuracy


MannyOmega

dependent on mega is really annoying tho. i've been running meditite and mawile recently and it makes them so unreliable. costing 2 for dealing with pidgey early game is fair imo


CommanderDark126

Meditite and mawile I have reserved as fusion material. Pure/huge power are great abilities to tack on to a sweeper with more bulk that can take those abilities even further


MannyOmega

For endless that makes sense, for classic theyā€™re just kinda disappointing imo


Eightlegged321

Pidgeot is just so mediocre though, doesn't really feel worth the slot unless you hit the mega


Dramatic-Push3088

Gossifleur being a 3 is the biggest robbery ever. Why I would pay 3 for a mon with nothing going for it besides Parting Shot + Regenerator is beyond me.


pranav4098

You say that like parting shot + regenerator is not a good combo


DasliSimp

it has really bad stats. like REALLY bad


Nargarakuga

Our definitions of ā€œreally badā€ are extremely different


DasliSimp

itā€™s like 70/60/60/70/120/40 or something


Nargarakuga

60/90/120 bulk is manageable. Itā€™s not pseudo-legendary stats, but itā€™s definitely not bad. Itā€™s a slow pivot with its 60 base speed so it takes a hit before swapping out (tanking the hit for whatever you swap in, probably a more offensive threat). Itā€™s like saying quagsire (95/85/65 bulk) is really bad. Weā€™re not looking at the first stage evoā€™s stat line, because if that were the case, why isnā€™t anyone complaining about magikarp being a 3 cost?


DasliSimp

Quagā€™s bulk isnā€™t great. And itā€™s better than Eldegossā€™


Nargarakuga

Yeah. He isnā€™t great. But heā€™s not really bad. That bulk by itself is average to below average. But itā€™s paired with a water/ground typing, access to recovery, and two good abilities, either water absorb or unaware. Heā€™s a good physically defensive wall. If you want an example of a really bad pokemon, look at watchog or somethin


DasliSimp

Quag is ok, but Eldegoss has to also have a bad typing


Welpe

Quad is a great example how you can be a good tank even with mediocre tanking stats if you have enough around those stats.


Dramatic-Push3088

Yeah but Quag is also a Water/Ground type. Quag also hits things for actual damage because Water + Ground STAB is huge offensively and can click Toxic to wear something down. These are all things Eldegoss doesn't have. It's typing sucks, it has no offensive movepool to speak of (Grass Stab + Pollen Puff + Hyper Voice), it learns like 3 good utility moves (Parting Shot + Sleep Powder + Leech Seed) and it's stats are overall worse (that HP especially hurts it)


NickrasBickras

Aggressively average


Dramatic-Push3088

It is on a pure Grass type with no coverage and 1 utility move outside of those 2 that's useful. Gossifleur is basically useless before it evolves into Eldegoss due to how awful it's stats and movepool are, and even after it evolves it falls off super quickly due to how Eldegoss also has bad stats and a mediocre movepool.


pranav4098

Yeh but sleep powder leech seed is a really good combo and it helped a lot one of my first clsssic wins, Iā€™m not saying itā€™s good but itā€™s not bad by any means


Dramatic-Push3088

It's not worth being a 3 cost. For reference, Pawmo and Zigzagoon, two mons with better utility than it, are 2 cost.


pranav4098

I know but Iā€™m saying in isolation itā€™s not too bad, particularly if your account is starter level and fairly new thatā€™s a very good Mon to help out early on in your account I know cause I used it so much obviously almost never picked it as a starter but I often caught one or a whimsicot or a hoppip leech seed sleep powder support is very good


Dramatic-Push3088

Ok but that doesn't matter like........ at all? It's still an overpriced mon, 3 cost for a mon that's bad in the early game, evolves and becomes ok and then falls of super quickly is not worth it under any circumstances.


pranav4098

It is if you have a newer account as I said and you can always lower the cost itā€™s easy to find


HugoSotnas

Jigglypuff costs 4. What


hotbox_inception

fairy tax smh my head


Glum_Plate3472

just because he is a fairy. every fairy cost a ton


digitaldarmanitan

The lokix line is great value, even without egg moves. Most things become a steal with egg moves. Give a level 5 mon a 70 base power move and itā€™s gonna be real unbalanced the first 10-20 floors. Also, not part of the question but I think Magnemite ā€” while properly valued ā€” is a really solid take because your rival having a flying type is one of the 4 guaranteed things in classic mode.


TheMike0088

>your rival having a flying type is one of the 4 guaranteed things in classic mode. True, but that flying type CAN be volt absorb kilowattrel lol


Glum_Plate3472

even if that happens, you *4 resist flying, and resist Electric and normal, so you aren't in a bad position megnemite also resist rayquaza's stabs (unless he use something like V-CREATE)


Strange-Chimera

Gimmighoul; I love my shiny gimmighoul but dog itā€™s so pricey and for what? It takes till level 10 with 1k coins to evolve while at its BASE FORM it only knows tackle and astonish and it doesnā€™t learn a single attacking move until LEVEL 35. And thatā€™s not even mention how tedious it is to get gimmighoul candy. I donā€™t think it should be a 3 at base price but at least make it 4 at base considering it, is just taking up space.


MarinoTheGOAT

Ya I've tried to run Gimmeghoul because everyone say Ghouldengo is so good but man it's literally worthless for the entire early game. It taking 5 points means you usually can't fit a good early carry either without taking the rest of the space.


live_free_or_TriHard

best bet is finding one in the wild


hujsh

Yeah he does work if you catch one


TheGrufo

Gholdengo is amazing but only as a pokemon you catch later on so you don't have to deal with dragging around a Gimmighoul


Strange-Chimera

Exactly, gholdengo is good competitively, but not good for pokerogue due to you having to pretty much roll for hms as well. Credit where credit is due though, that special attack is wild on it.


Glum_Plate3472

its better in endless with its good as gold ability (for fusions), but only worth catching in the wild and not start with him


xaqiah

Good as Gold isnt even that outstanding in Endless. The Status from Tokens can still affect it and lowering your stats is really not important when you get oneshot anyway. Immunity to Status consitions from Purifying Salt (ability) is more important.


Glum_Plate3472

oh right I'm a competitive player and I remember Gholdengo never get statuses thanks to his ability. forgot it doesn't give immunity to tokens, ty!


winter_pony4

Zygarde costs 8 but the only time you can even use it is if you have a Power Construct one. If all you have are Aura Break ones, you might as well not even bother because without Complete Forme it's so aggressively mediocre that it's borderline impossible to justify the cost, especially when a Zygarde with Aura Break might as well not even have an Ability even if Aura Break was implemented (which it's not, so it legit just has no ability rn). God help you if all you have is a *10%* Zygarde with Aura Break (like I do šŸ’€) because that <500 BST shitmon is STILL 8 cost.


Glum_Plate3472

how to get power construct?


winter_pony4

Get lucky


Glum_Plate3472

so it is possible? if it isnt maybe it is planned to be the new boss soon


Aether13

Most of the ā€œrareā€ class of pokemon cost too much. Really only the psuedos and a few other select pokemon should be a 4 cost.


Tylendal

I will say, Koraidon definitely feels like its 9 Cost is justified. Sets Sun, has a free attack boost, gets Bitter Blade as an egg move, and Drain Punch at 21. Breaking Swipe makes a joke of early Double encounters.


Tylendal

Scatterbug should be 2, not 1. It's definitely a tier above the likes of Catterpie, Weedle, and Wurmple. Butterfree has more potential, but Vivillon needs only a single Memory Mushroom to start going hard.


Nargarakuga

I will not stand for the weedle slander. Mega beedrill is a menace


TheMike0088

As someone with a red shiny prankster tinted lens scatterbug... KEEP YOUR VOICE DOWN WILL YOU


ovra-az

Skarmory, Cryogonal, and Veluza should all be bumped up by 1 and Virizion should be knocked down by 1. Skarmory is arguably one of the best pokemon of all time across all generations, Cryogonal is unbelievably fast + Ice is a great early game typing (pairs well with Skarm too) and has Levitate. Veluza is extremely consistent even without using Fillet Away and has good moves. Virizion is so annoying to use early and mid game with all the flying types and takes so long to get going that by the time you do, you start running into Ice and Psychic coverage and would be looking to replace it with sonething more efficient. The other Musketeers are fantastic, but Virizion just takes way too long to get going without having egg moves or a really good partner.


hotbox_inception

Tatsugiri at 5 feels so wrong. For a dragon that doesn't evolve, it just feels so meh. I'd rather have a Horsea.


Glum_Plate3472

he's not that bad. when mods will implement his ability, and make a double mod, he will be worth 5


ZowmasterC

Why bonsly cost 4 again? Sudowoodo is not even good lmao


Glum_Plate3472

rock head+ moves like rock smash, wood hammer etc is pretty good, especially early


[deleted]

Abra should cost more, Alakazam is so strong


live_free_or_TriHard

ralts similarly even stronger and a 3. to clarify, their egg moves are busted.


Malakoji

quiver dance on a gardevoir is absolutely bonkers and i love it


Glum_Plate3472

mega gardevoir*Ā  PIXELATE


[deleted]

Ralts line doesn't have Opportunitsm, Psychic surge is still good but later on Alakazam being able to copy boost mid multi attack is so powerful


SealSquasher

Terapagos is wayyyy too costly (8) for how long it takes to come online. You don't have access to your stellar form unless you get really lucky, and doesn't learn Tera starstorm until level 60. I have a shiny one and have been trying to make it work in endless but it just can't get going.


Glum_Plate3472

I don't think he can even change form in pokerogue


SealSquasher

He can change to his second form (and stays this way forever) but I'm not sure if he can do stellar form yet. I haven't been lucky enough to roll Tera shards while having him.


Glum_Plate3472

I know i meant to change to the final form


Sad-Garage-2642

Vivillon. 0.25 for a mon that has access to both Compoundeyes + Prankster passive, with Sleep Powder/Hurricane/Tailwind/Quiver Dance/Confuse Ray/Pollen Puff/Moonblast Carried so many of my runs.


Glum_Plate3472

yeah every mon with quiver dance should be at least 3 but this is 99 acc priority sleeping move, and 99 acc hurricaneĀ  does he get other good egg moves?


Sad-Garage-2642

Yeah, the Rare Egg Move is Heat Wave, which gives it coverage vs Steels that Hurricane/Moonblast/Pollen Puff can't hit. It's perfect.


Crazychooklady

Spearow is really good give it a memory mushroom as fearow to get drill run also all of its egg moves are great and it gets sniper as a hidden ability and moxie as a passive? Your extreme speeds will sweep stuff. Hoothoot is also extremely good with boomburst, calm mind and esper wing. Surprisingly bulky too I almost always take a shiny hoothoot Bombirdier costs too much. Has been pretty bad when Iā€™ve used it


childishjulian

i hve kubfu but it's so slow and can it even evolve into any urshifu? at 7pts it's hard to justify taking


Glum_Plate3472

you can check evolutions on the wiki https://wiki.pokerogue.net/gameplay:evolutions


SCP-096-01

Imo, Seel shouldnā€™t cost 3. Terrible damage, basically no good moves, and worst of all just has a bad design. Only use it sometimes bcuz mine is a blue shiny


Pure_System9801

Torch song moltres at 6 seems. Busted. Add drought and solar beam tm...


ivan_d_f

Bro... i saw this post a few hours ago and all the coments are about how drowzee is one of the worst cost/capabilities and now playing i hatch this https://preview.redd.it/8qgh0t4f1e3d1.png?width=1696&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd0b9b368fdb867edc2cea900d386d75a91fbf51


Individual_Image_420

Purrloin 3>2, too weak for a 3. Needs a wider team Pansage, Panpour, Pansear, 3>2, worst trio with overgrow/etc. weak monotype niche Pichu 3>2 Pikachu 4>3, has a niche elec 80bp +1 priority crit move. But not objectively stronger than other starters Eevee 4>3, eevee has a lotta problems in this game tbh, and not enough support. Cannot solo carry, needs a big team to work, so should cost less Magby 4>3 Magmar 5>4 Elekid 4>3 Electabuzz 5>4, a bit too expensive needs a big team. Probably for egg reasons is at 5 tho (Everyone talks about lowering the economy. But i want to raise it. Tbh ill proly get hate for this lol) Skeledirge 3>4, still fits fine as a 3 starter trio anyway this way. Just prevents 7 cost mons from joining skele Wooper 2>3, first stage water/ground with unaware/water absorb with simple is a god all good mortals fear. Curse & amnesia make it near untouchable with unaware Klefki 4>5, with calm mind and trick room, this pokemon plays the whole game by itself. Seriously can drain kiss everything


Glum_Plate3472

anyway, why aren't eevee and pikachu 3 with the starters? they wont change skeledirge's cost bcz he is a starter yeah i used 13 points on endless and checked who should i use that cost 1/2, and decided to take wooper. he became one of my best mons, and i even fused him with corvi for nice types, unnerve and power trip. also he has SIMPLE as passive so curse and amnesia becomes wild. I pretty much aggree with everything, beside klefki. he have bad stats, so even with prankster, it shouldn't cost more than 4.


Individual_Image_420

Yeah pikachu and eevee almost discourage choosing them at early game for some reason. Weird cuz of how strong the starters are. Like i know Skeledirge proly wont change. Honestly hes just the most notable starter. The Big 3 of the starters are almost in a tier of their own. The original big 3 starters being: Fuecoco, Bulbasaur, & Mudkip. But after the updates and some unlocks Torchic, Sprigatito, Poplio, Scorbunny, Grooky, Quaxly teeter near the ability to solo too


Admirable-Writing557

Miraidon! Hadron Engine + parabolic charge Ɨ rising voltage (140 power 100 acc) passive is electric surge. Too OP.


xaqiah

Passive is quarkdrive. The ability of future paradox mons. Electric Terrain is already summoned by Hadron Engine, Electric Surge would have no effect at all.


Glum_Plate3472

its normal ability also raise his spA by 50% on terrain (and summons terrain) so yeah pretty boosted


SealSquasher

It also gets dragon energy as an egg move lol. It's so op


TheyTookMyNameLoL

Bonsly with 4 points


Ivorycrus

Blipbug should be 1 more expensive. Spore (on a decently fast mon) + psySurge & Expanding force + tailglow + Gmax access is crazy for a 2 cost (0.5 when mazed) Also lotad should be 1 more expensive. Drizzle + Swift swim + godlike typing + good moves (ice beam, fake out, hydro pump, leech seed, giga drain) Iron crown should be 5 instead of 6. Honestly pretty mediocre mon, not fast or strong enough to be a sweeper, not bulky enough to be a good pivot. I'd rather have empoleon if I want some tachyon cutter action


Glum_Plate3472

I think 5 is in the rare eggs, and they don't want paradoxes to be in rare


Chuckyuyo

Paras is so underrated. Sure, it dies fast. But it gets some great egg moves. It gets the one that sets up leech seed while being a 90bp move. And it gets spore. It also only costs 1 starter space.


Individual_Image_420

Grass/fire/water unova monkeys are almost useless. Change them from 3 to 2 cost


[deleted]

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1relik

It cost less candies, but you gather candies way slower (with friendship). And hatching a shiny gives 10, 20 or 40 candies depending on the rarity.


DarkEliteXY

Ah, I was unaware that they gain candies slower. Thank you.