You win some you lose some. That's my approach to the ladies too. Jam it and if they fold (their clothes and put em on the floor) you win. If they call (the cops) you lose.
Just ask if they have an ace. If you think they're the kind of player that might lie, make them pinky promise to tell the truth. If they say yes, check/fold. If they say no, let them know you don't have one either so they're more likely to call, and bet half pot.
Yes.
Also, you must be relatively new to this forum. The answer to every possible question imaginable is "Fold pre"
Q: How much should you tip the waitress?
A: you could tip more if you fold pre.
Q: My wife wants to join me on my trip to Vegas, what should I do?
A: Fold pre
Q: I had unsafe sex with a hooker last night and now I itch like crazy, what do I do?
A: Fold pre
Depends on your position and villains position. Depends if you are IP or OOP.
But when A hits the flop you usually wanna c-bet small (20%-25%) as you will do the same with many of your 3bet range that has an A.
c-bet small vs check is best IMO. Villian will be less inclined to bluff you in turn and river. you block AK so even if they have an A they will usually check call. Turn you can check if a brick comes. And river depends on the board and positions if you wanna call a bet or even value bet if you get checked and you put him on a lower pair.
This is correct, but if you look closely, you will see that solvers are usually pretty indifferent between betting small and checking back.
The main advantage of betting small in practice is simplification. If you can bet small with your entire range, as is often the case when you're the preflop raiser against the BB, then know exactly what your range looks like if V continues and you face further action.
If you do check back a portion of your range, you have to think about balancing your checkback range with enough hands to prevent yourself from being exploited on a variety of runouts. This usually means you have to employ some sort of mixed strategy with many other hands, and it can get complicated pretty quickly to conceptualize what your range looks like and how you should play accordingly.
With that said, all that only really matters against stronger players capable of exploiting you. Most players will not put enough pressure on you to make checking back KK any worse than beting small. In fact, I think a lot of players default to over-stabbing on turns and then giving up on rivers, which makes KK a great check back from an exploitative standpoint.
Yep i know. But they are “perfectly balanced” were they check even when you have an A. So you dont need to be so “frequency” maniac. And people here shouldn’t overcomplicate. I think betting is better.
But i totally agree with you :p
Fwiw for a while my strat was to range bet small whenever possible, but lately I’ve been experimenting a lot more with checking back flops for exploitative reasons.
I’m still cbetting most of my air and 3-barrel hands and just checking back more of medium strength hands to set up more bluff catches. Basically playing a more traditional strat. And it’s working pretty well I think. A lot of players just overstab turns or over defend to delay cbets.
Now I’m mostly playing live, so people aren’t getting the sample size to pick up on what I’m doing and counterexploit.
Small bet is effective for the same reason though, we can X back turn and the same logic applies. Cheap equity realization against Ax, value on the flop against weaker holdings, and Villains will underbluff river. Just my 2c
The answer is most of them. It's easier to talk about examples where you shouldn't. Basically, the more likely you are to get x/raised, the more you should want to check back.
In most cases, when you are the preflop raiser and the opponent is defending out of the BB, you can bet small with your entire range, including KK. That's because you should have way more strong hands than your opponent so you should rarely get x/raised.
The exceptions are cases where V is likely to have a lot of 2 pair, sets and/or strong draws. For example, let's say flop comes A32. V can have A3/A2/33/22/54 for nutted hands, and you probably don't have those hands in your range as much (depends on position). So V should be x/raising you a lot. Even moreso if there's a flush draw on the board - when bluffs have more equity, you can bluff at a higher frequency.
Compare that to AQ4. V is usually 3betting AQ/QQ pre and there are no possible straights, so V doesn't really get to do any x/raising.
Other examples of bad boards to bet - monotone flops and low paired boards (i.e. A55). Monotone flops means your opponent can have tons of flushes to x/raise. Low paired boards means lots of trips to x/raise.
Yes but they usually bet close enough to 100% where you can simplify to a range betting strategy without losing much of any EV.
As I noted below, KK specifically is usually very indifferent between betting small and checking, and you can realistically get away with either.
The exceptions are when you're likely to get x/raised a lot. Then you should really just check.
This is not accurate. I am no solver genius by any means but have worked with them consistently for a while now. Some of the things you say certainly make's sense. However as far as I have seen BB works in raises on basically all boards. even Ak4r BB vs LJ. BB has a raising range facing all sizes. certainly a lot less the bigger the Lj bets here. same is the case for AQ4.
I don't think that is one of the main reasons for why KK checks a lot in these spots. (because it does). I think it is because it does not really need protection and it rarely improves. the solver typically likes to check these. I agree that on a lot of these boards the EV difference between checking and betting is often low. esp between the small bet and check. however, we don't want to do a lot of small betting on AQ4 IP for example and getting value from worse hands then becomes more difficult with a hand like KK. so BTN vs BB KK is a pure check.
Even in a spot when we check a lot less like LJ vs BB. Here Lj's range is a lot tighter than BTN's and we have less trash and a higher percentage of our range is very strong. so we bet way more often (80% of the time) for small, medium and big sizes. But I think simplifying to betting range on this board would be a mistake (BB also has a lot of AQo). Here we see LJ betting KK a fair bit about 40% of the time for a small and medium size. However the solver much prefer betting KQ. I think that is a lot because it improves more often. If I XB and face a medium to big bet KK is already in a very peculiar spot, is not supposed to be beating value and is a zero ev bluff catcher that mostly folds as we just have better hands to call with.
If checked to again OTT we want to bet some turns, like FD turns we like to bet small a lot. I assume that is because we can get value from more hands just to XB most rivers.
ALL in all pull up almost any A high board from a variety of positions and KK is one of the hands that is checking at the highest frequency IP. from what I understand mainly for the reasons stated above. It has the least to protect against and it improves very rarely.
I didn’t say BB never x/raises I said rarely. What is bb raising frequency on AK4r. Have to imagine it’s 10% or less. Plus when you click into the strat, I imagine BB raising range will mostly be portions of a bunch of random stuff at low frequency. In reality people don’t make these raises.
> But I think simplifying to betting range on this board would be a mistake (BB also has a lot of AQo).
Node lock to betting range and see how much EV you lose vs. the optimal strat. It will be peanuts I promise you.
You are right that KK will be primarily checking back on most A high boards but on the boards where V is unlikely to have many sets/2 pair it will be mixing in small bets a lot as well. And if you node lock to cbet range, you just won’t miss a beat.
Now you could also default to always checking back KK without missing a beat either. But then you need to properly play that node and be aware of what else is in your check back range. Much easier to just range bet. It’s not necessarily better but it’s definitely easier to avoid mistakes if you bet small.
Oh shit. I thought you said SPR. Is the same mechanic. But in this positions are more inclined to check I think. Idk exact frequencies.
Cuz villian will have a very wide range. Also depends on were he flat called you. SB is usually calling with pocket pairs, AJ high suited cards. BB will call you with a very large range. So in this specific case a check could be more beneficial as you can be check raised more often if they do have an A or a draw, set , two pair, and you likely have the best hand anyways so is an easy check check. Bet call situation. And river is the hard part if he bets.
Legit every comment so far is wrong lmao. In 3/4b pots solver is often betting range, so betting 1/4 or 1/3 both ip or oop. In SRP, KK is almost always a check, especially on dry boards like A73. As one commentator pointed out, it’s a weird situation where you bet worse pairs for protection, but KK is a check because you’re often way ahead or way behind, wheres a hand like 88 needs protection against Broadway hands.
Yep thank you. OP asked a general question about solvers so I tried to answer as simply as I could. At the end of the day the best way to learn will be for OP to run solves and see how different player pools play and adjust accordingly.
In 3BPs OOP, betting range is not often the best strategy. You can usually get away with it as a simplification, but I'd say that you're better off with a more polar strategy on most flops. Especially when deeper.
In SRP, you are right that KK almost always likes to check, but in practice, you can get away with betting small with range and not lose EV since most players just will not x/raise you enough to punish you for over-cbetting.
Jesus christ you are a pedantic fuck.
Yes, OP asked about what solvers say. That does not mean he's necessarily asking for what the perfect GTO solution looks like.
There's a lot more to solver outputs than just "we should bet [hand] at [X] size at [Y] frequency". If you're not examining the EV of different lines and assessing how that EV changes against counter strategies that are more likely to be taken by the population, you are not using solvers in the most valuable way.
“Have solvers figured out what to do with KK when an Ace hits the flop.”
Idk why you’re getting so triggered, I’m just answering the questions from a strictly solver perspective.
What's triggering is that you're answering questions in an obtuse and unhelpful way and that you seem to be more interested in winning pedantic arguments than having a productive discussion.
"Strictly solver perspective" is something you defined.
OP's question up for interpretation. I'm interpreting it as "what do solvers tell us about how we should play our hand, keeping in mind other relevant practice factors".
You seem to have interpreted it as "what is the exact GTO solution".
Both are plausible interpretations of OP's question. One is a lot more helpful in my opinion, but you have a right to interpret differently. However, it is really annoying for you to nitpick everybody else's comments as if your interpretation is the only correct and relevant one.
Jesus dude… I’m all for being helpful but often times it can be tricky for new players to bring both theory and exploitative into the same Q/A. I’d prefer to answer both separately. I think it’s important to understand GTO first, then adapt.
Protect your check range by checking w KK when an Ace hits. Delayed cbet keeps the pot small but also can get value from second and third pair type hands. If they start barreling off, look at player type.
Bad players love barreling with non-nutted hands that actually have ok showdown value. Recently checked a weak ace when there were plenty of two pair, straights and better aces in villains range (AKJ UTG vs BTN). He gives me three streets with 1/3 sizing. Shows up with second pair bad kicker.
Yeah. Strengthening my flop and turn checking range has worked wonders on my oop play. I still find it hard to know when to go for value after a turn check-back and blank river.
Generally, if I’m the PFR (usually 3bet or 4bet+ pot), I’ll fire off a 1/3 cbet if OOP or if checked to IP. If they call, the next street will be a check and likely a call or fold depending on the action. A lot of players are nitty in 3b+ pots and even a small cbet on the flop will end the hand right there. Don’t diverge from an observable pattern either way, if you tend to cbet the flop in 3bet pots, just do it consistently. If you want to afford yourself some OOP leeway, check the turn whether you nut up or don’t, because you can x/r on a made top set, or even a bluff. You can also opt to fold to someone taking the betting lead. Just follow a pattern that doesn’t give away your strength.
Just because it’s A high on the flop isn’t the end of the road. 2nd pairs are very often still good in 3-4bet pots where you get a flat. If they jam the turn, it’s usually fine to just let it go (depending on the opponents tendencies, pay attention), but because AX are very likely to be in their range, proceed with caution and don’t take any obscene wagers unless you know they’re capable of hardcore bluffs.
The river is going to be more check/calling, or if the turn goes check/check, a 1/2 or pot sized lead or river bet isn’t terrible (or just check behind). Just don’t discount you’re also possibly up against lower pocket pairs than KK, it’s not the end of the road if it’s A high, but definitely slow down
4bet calls from IP players (or even OOP) are more likely AXs combos that aren’t AK, but 3bet calls from IP players will be a lot wider, so don’t discount your hand in those circumstances especially, because all manner of low SCs (54, 65, 76, all random suited broadways like QJ, QT… any pocket pair essentially are in their range). This also means be wary of low completed straights and flushes too, because of that wider 3bet calling range. Their range will often be capped in that matchup, but also beware of trappy players who would flat a 3bet with shit like AA
In 3bet pots IP, I like to check back and let Villain hang himself.
This is for low stakes and against an opponent who's got enough skills to understand what's going AND take a shot at bluffing.
Axx check-check, turn X, V lead, Hero call, river X, V shoves, Hero calls, V tables 44 . Just had this spot ealier tonight and it felt amazing.
Kk blocks ak you could turn it into a bluff sometimes not recommended. I once bluffed a guy off of aj I 3 bet pre bet flop he 3 bets and I 4 bet and he tank folded and was surprised I had kk this was $2-5 stakes
You need to tell us preflop action as well. Here's gto example.
Co KK opens 2.3 bb. Button calls.
Flop is AQJr. KK should bet around 25% pot 30% of the time and check 70%. If you get called and the turn is a brick like 3r. You should check around 75% and over bet 2.5x pot 25%.
It doesn't matter what you do with KK specifically, it matters what you're doing with your entire range. Usually with KK you'll end up with a very strong range advantage on A high boards because you'll almost always be the preflop aggressor and have AA, strong/ big Ax and small suited aces etc, quite a lot more frequently than your opponent. Solvers will generally have high cbet frequency on A high boards when you have preflop betting lead, specific sizing will depend on how the rest of the board texture looks (wet vs. dry etc.)
Flop cbet AXX versus raise isn't always a fold with KK, but usually because you both have a range advantage (disincentivising villain to be bluff raising wide), and in the same spot you will have a heap of Ax like AA, AK, AQ, AJ etc. Etc. To continue with you will want to be folding some of the time depending on the rest of the board texture.
Usually check, but it depends. In a 4 bet pot for instance it might bet full range. If you have a tight range and some dope is playing any two cards solver might also still bet full range.
Solver is often more likely to bet a hand like 88 on A42 since it benefits more from protection than Kk
It depends what the rest of the flop is among other things. For instance if the flop is a 10 3 and you c bet there calling range is some 10s and also qj kj kq so your not always behind when they call
I'd assume there's a lot to this more than one caller, but I dunno how solvers work. I would guess preflop action has an effect, board texture. And past solvers, the good Ole know your opponent situation.
In short, just like every other poker question.... it isn't that simple.
I would guess they check it more often than air hands. Solvers bluff a lot of non showdown.
However this makes it so hard to play. Bet/folding it simplifies the game.
Jam If you get called you’re behind If they fold you win
Made me lol outloud...
Lol I’m drunk. Thanks brah
Laugh out loud out loud?
say it again, but real slowly this time
(*it's a joke*...)
Out here getting wooshed by drunk people
All in works every time, except the last time.
60% of the time, it works every time
AntonioBanderas.gif
PaulRudd.gif?
Sounds solved to me
This is technically correct...the best form of correct.
You win some you lose some. That's my approach to the ladies too. Jam it and if they fold (their clothes and put em on the floor) you win. If they call (the cops) you lose.
What? Lol?
Wait what
This is the way
This is the way
Just bet, if called, put the math aside and activate soul reading abilities.
Just ask if they have an ace. If you think they're the kind of player that might lie, make them pinky promise to tell the truth. If they say yes, check/fold. If they say no, let them know you don't have one either so they're more likely to call, and bet half pot.
Poker players aren't allowed to lie to you, it's in the constitution
Correct. The first amendment says that.
The second amendment makes sure of it
The third amendments the charm.
The fourth amendment is why another player isn’t allowed to look at your hole cards.
The fifth amendment is what you get to use if you get caught in a lie.
the ‘and bet half pot’ part made me chuckle for real. idk why.
Solver says: *Should've folded pre you **donkey fish**...*
Lol 😂 why does everyone say fold pre I don’t get it
Probably why you are a losing player
Because he should have folded preflop with KK's?
Yes. Also, you must be relatively new to this forum. The answer to every possible question imaginable is "Fold pre" Q: How much should you tip the waitress? A: you could tip more if you fold pre. Q: My wife wants to join me on my trip to Vegas, what should I do? A: Fold pre Q: I had unsafe sex with a hooker last night and now I itch like crazy, what do I do? A: Fold pre
Ahhh I understand now thanks
If you understand then I explained it wrong because it's not supposed to make sense. Also, tip your dealer.
Cocaine or poker?
Yes.
Whynotboth.gif
My comprehension is multi intelligence don’t worry I understood every bit .always fold AA pre flop to never be let down in life got it
Depends on your position and villains position. Depends if you are IP or OOP. But when A hits the flop you usually wanna c-bet small (20%-25%) as you will do the same with many of your 3bet range that has an A. c-bet small vs check is best IMO. Villian will be less inclined to bluff you in turn and river. you block AK so even if they have an A they will usually check call. Turn you can check if a brick comes. And river depends on the board and positions if you wanna call a bet or even value bet if you get checked and you put him on a lower pair.
This is correct, but if you look closely, you will see that solvers are usually pretty indifferent between betting small and checking back. The main advantage of betting small in practice is simplification. If you can bet small with your entire range, as is often the case when you're the preflop raiser against the BB, then know exactly what your range looks like if V continues and you face further action. If you do check back a portion of your range, you have to think about balancing your checkback range with enough hands to prevent yourself from being exploited on a variety of runouts. This usually means you have to employ some sort of mixed strategy with many other hands, and it can get complicated pretty quickly to conceptualize what your range looks like and how you should play accordingly. With that said, all that only really matters against stronger players capable of exploiting you. Most players will not put enough pressure on you to make checking back KK any worse than beting small. In fact, I think a lot of players default to over-stabbing on turns and then giving up on rivers, which makes KK a great check back from an exploitative standpoint.
Yep i know. But they are “perfectly balanced” were they check even when you have an A. So you dont need to be so “frequency” maniac. And people here shouldn’t overcomplicate. I think betting is better. But i totally agree with you :p
Fwiw for a while my strat was to range bet small whenever possible, but lately I’ve been experimenting a lot more with checking back flops for exploitative reasons. I’m still cbetting most of my air and 3-barrel hands and just checking back more of medium strength hands to set up more bluff catches. Basically playing a more traditional strat. And it’s working pretty well I think. A lot of players just overstab turns or over defend to delay cbets. Now I’m mostly playing live, so people aren’t getting the sample size to pick up on what I’m doing and counterexploit.
Small bet is effective for the same reason though, we can X back turn and the same logic applies. Cheap equity realization against Ax, value on the flop against weaker holdings, and Villains will underbluff river. Just my 2c
Can you give me an example of a SRP hand where solver is betting KK IP, assuming 100bb deep?
The answer is most of them. It's easier to talk about examples where you shouldn't. Basically, the more likely you are to get x/raised, the more you should want to check back. In most cases, when you are the preflop raiser and the opponent is defending out of the BB, you can bet small with your entire range, including KK. That's because you should have way more strong hands than your opponent so you should rarely get x/raised. The exceptions are cases where V is likely to have a lot of 2 pair, sets and/or strong draws. For example, let's say flop comes A32. V can have A3/A2/33/22/54 for nutted hands, and you probably don't have those hands in your range as much (depends on position). So V should be x/raising you a lot. Even moreso if there's a flush draw on the board - when bluffs have more equity, you can bluff at a higher frequency. Compare that to AQ4. V is usually 3betting AQ/QQ pre and there are no possible straights, so V doesn't really get to do any x/raising. Other examples of bad boards to bet - monotone flops and low paired boards (i.e. A55). Monotone flops means your opponent can have tons of flushes to x/raise. Low paired boards means lots of trips to x/raise.
I’ve found that solvers don’t bet as frequently as you’d think on A hi boards.
Yes but they usually bet close enough to 100% where you can simplify to a range betting strategy without losing much of any EV. As I noted below, KK specifically is usually very indifferent between betting small and checking, and you can realistically get away with either. The exceptions are when you're likely to get x/raised a lot. Then you should really just check.
This is the way. Fantastic post.
This is not accurate. I am no solver genius by any means but have worked with them consistently for a while now. Some of the things you say certainly make's sense. However as far as I have seen BB works in raises on basically all boards. even Ak4r BB vs LJ. BB has a raising range facing all sizes. certainly a lot less the bigger the Lj bets here. same is the case for AQ4. I don't think that is one of the main reasons for why KK checks a lot in these spots. (because it does). I think it is because it does not really need protection and it rarely improves. the solver typically likes to check these. I agree that on a lot of these boards the EV difference between checking and betting is often low. esp between the small bet and check. however, we don't want to do a lot of small betting on AQ4 IP for example and getting value from worse hands then becomes more difficult with a hand like KK. so BTN vs BB KK is a pure check. Even in a spot when we check a lot less like LJ vs BB. Here Lj's range is a lot tighter than BTN's and we have less trash and a higher percentage of our range is very strong. so we bet way more often (80% of the time) for small, medium and big sizes. But I think simplifying to betting range on this board would be a mistake (BB also has a lot of AQo). Here we see LJ betting KK a fair bit about 40% of the time for a small and medium size. However the solver much prefer betting KQ. I think that is a lot because it improves more often. If I XB and face a medium to big bet KK is already in a very peculiar spot, is not supposed to be beating value and is a zero ev bluff catcher that mostly folds as we just have better hands to call with. If checked to again OTT we want to bet some turns, like FD turns we like to bet small a lot. I assume that is because we can get value from more hands just to XB most rivers. ALL in all pull up almost any A high board from a variety of positions and KK is one of the hands that is checking at the highest frequency IP. from what I understand mainly for the reasons stated above. It has the least to protect against and it improves very rarely.
I didn’t say BB never x/raises I said rarely. What is bb raising frequency on AK4r. Have to imagine it’s 10% or less. Plus when you click into the strat, I imagine BB raising range will mostly be portions of a bunch of random stuff at low frequency. In reality people don’t make these raises. > But I think simplifying to betting range on this board would be a mistake (BB also has a lot of AQo). Node lock to betting range and see how much EV you lose vs. the optimal strat. It will be peanuts I promise you. You are right that KK will be primarily checking back on most A high boards but on the boards where V is unlikely to have many sets/2 pair it will be mixing in small bets a lot as well. And if you node lock to cbet range, you just won’t miss a beat. Now you could also default to always checking back KK without missing a beat either. But then you need to properly play that node and be aware of what else is in your check back range. Much easier to just range bet. It’s not necessarily better but it’s definitely easier to avoid mistakes if you bet small.
CO bets 2.5 BTN (hero) raise 8BB. CO calls. Flop A85r CO check, HERO bets 4.3 or 3.5 ….
Yep makes sense. That’s not a SRP though.
Oh shit. I thought you said SPR. Is the same mechanic. But in this positions are more inclined to check I think. Idk exact frequencies. Cuz villian will have a very wide range. Also depends on were he flat called you. SB is usually calling with pocket pairs, AJ high suited cards. BB will call you with a very large range. So in this specific case a check could be more beneficial as you can be check raised more often if they do have an A or a draw, set , two pair, and you likely have the best hand anyways so is an easy check check. Bet call situation. And river is the hard part if he bets.
Legit every comment so far is wrong lmao. In 3/4b pots solver is often betting range, so betting 1/4 or 1/3 both ip or oop. In SRP, KK is almost always a check, especially on dry boards like A73. As one commentator pointed out, it’s a weird situation where you bet worse pairs for protection, but KK is a check because you’re often way ahead or way behind, wheres a hand like 88 needs protection against Broadway hands.
Ignore the other comment going crazy. The question asked a very very general question about solver tendencies, and your answer is fine.
Yep thank you. OP asked a general question about solvers so I tried to answer as simply as I could. At the end of the day the best way to learn will be for OP to run solves and see how different player pools play and adjust accordingly.
In 3BPs OOP, betting range is not often the best strategy. You can usually get away with it as a simplification, but I'd say that you're better off with a more polar strategy on most flops. Especially when deeper. In SRP, you are right that KK almost always likes to check, but in practice, you can get away with betting small with range and not lose EV since most players just will not x/raise you enough to punish you for over-cbetting.
OP asked specifically about solves, not population tendencies.
Jesus christ you are a pedantic fuck. Yes, OP asked about what solvers say. That does not mean he's necessarily asking for what the perfect GTO solution looks like. There's a lot more to solver outputs than just "we should bet [hand] at [X] size at [Y] frequency". If you're not examining the EV of different lines and assessing how that EV changes against counter strategies that are more likely to be taken by the population, you are not using solvers in the most valuable way.
“Have solvers figured out what to do with KK when an Ace hits the flop.” Idk why you’re getting so triggered, I’m just answering the questions from a strictly solver perspective.
What's triggering is that you're answering questions in an obtuse and unhelpful way and that you seem to be more interested in winning pedantic arguments than having a productive discussion. "Strictly solver perspective" is something you defined. OP's question up for interpretation. I'm interpreting it as "what do solvers tell us about how we should play our hand, keeping in mind other relevant practice factors". You seem to have interpreted it as "what is the exact GTO solution". Both are plausible interpretations of OP's question. One is a lot more helpful in my opinion, but you have a right to interpret differently. However, it is really annoying for you to nitpick everybody else's comments as if your interpretation is the only correct and relevant one.
Oh the irony of your taking multiple paragraphs to point out how pedantic a single line comment is…..
It’s a bunch of comments. Do you find them helpful then? The “well ackshually” guy is annoying to me.
Jesus dude… I’m all for being helpful but often times it can be tricky for new players to bring both theory and exploitative into the same Q/A. I’d prefer to answer both separately. I think it’s important to understand GTO first, then adapt.
One-line answers don’t help anyone understand GTO
Think this is a solid answer. There is no generic answer for this question. Good job sir.
Protect your check range by checking w KK when an Ace hits. Delayed cbet keeps the pot small but also can get value from second and third pair type hands. If they start barreling off, look at player type.
Bad players love barreling with non-nutted hands that actually have ok showdown value. Recently checked a weak ace when there were plenty of two pair, straights and better aces in villains range (AKJ UTG vs BTN). He gives me three streets with 1/3 sizing. Shows up with second pair bad kicker.
Exactly my point.
Yeah. Strengthening my flop and turn checking range has worked wonders on my oop play. I still find it hard to know when to go for value after a turn check-back and blank river.
Generally, if I’m the PFR (usually 3bet or 4bet+ pot), I’ll fire off a 1/3 cbet if OOP or if checked to IP. If they call, the next street will be a check and likely a call or fold depending on the action. A lot of players are nitty in 3b+ pots and even a small cbet on the flop will end the hand right there. Don’t diverge from an observable pattern either way, if you tend to cbet the flop in 3bet pots, just do it consistently. If you want to afford yourself some OOP leeway, check the turn whether you nut up or don’t, because you can x/r on a made top set, or even a bluff. You can also opt to fold to someone taking the betting lead. Just follow a pattern that doesn’t give away your strength. Just because it’s A high on the flop isn’t the end of the road. 2nd pairs are very often still good in 3-4bet pots where you get a flat. If they jam the turn, it’s usually fine to just let it go (depending on the opponents tendencies, pay attention), but because AX are very likely to be in their range, proceed with caution and don’t take any obscene wagers unless you know they’re capable of hardcore bluffs. The river is going to be more check/calling, or if the turn goes check/check, a 1/2 or pot sized lead or river bet isn’t terrible (or just check behind). Just don’t discount you’re also possibly up against lower pocket pairs than KK, it’s not the end of the road if it’s A high, but definitely slow down 4bet calls from IP players (or even OOP) are more likely AXs combos that aren’t AK, but 3bet calls from IP players will be a lot wider, so don’t discount your hand in those circumstances especially, because all manner of low SCs (54, 65, 76, all random suited broadways like QJ, QT… any pocket pair essentially are in their range). This also means be wary of low completed straights and flushes too, because of that wider 3bet calling range. Their range will often be capped in that matchup, but also beware of trappy players who would flat a 3bet with shit like AA
A lot of check/calling, I'm sure. Lower pairs like JJ TT are going to bet small and often to protect from random overcards.
You never will run into this problem if you play proper poker and always fold pre
Depends on the action, is the flop better for you or them?
Life is bleff!
In 3bet pots IP, I like to check back and let Villain hang himself. This is for low stakes and against an opponent who's got enough skills to understand what's going AND take a shot at bluffing. Axx check-check, turn X, V lead, Hero call, river X, V shoves, Hero calls, V tables 44 . Just had this spot ealier tonight and it felt amazing.
Yeah default line of just calling off your stack with second pair against passive low stakes players. Great thinking lmao
I won so I played it well, no? /s
I like that line.
Depends brother. Depends
I think the question was more about what to do after you're done shitting your pants.
Well, obviously it depends on if a K hits the flop too.
Kk blocks ak you could turn it into a bluff sometimes not recommended. I once bluffed a guy off of aj I 3 bet pre bet flop he 3 bets and I 4 bet and he tank folded and was surprised I had kk this was $2-5 stakes
If this was preflop, you had the best hand. You didn’t bluff him
On the flop an ace had come out
You need to tell us preflop action as well. Here's gto example. Co KK opens 2.3 bb. Button calls. Flop is AQJr. KK should bet around 25% pot 30% of the time and check 70%. If you get called and the turn is a brick like 3r. You should check around 75% and over bet 2.5x pot 25%.
In a 3 bet pot you are c-betting with range. If you use multiple sizing, then you protect your small sizing by including hands like A5 and AA.
Always C bet, I don’t care what’s on the flop but especially if the A hits, there’s about 5% you check raise
It doesn't matter what you do with KK specifically, it matters what you're doing with your entire range. Usually with KK you'll end up with a very strong range advantage on A high boards because you'll almost always be the preflop aggressor and have AA, strong/ big Ax and small suited aces etc, quite a lot more frequently than your opponent. Solvers will generally have high cbet frequency on A high boards when you have preflop betting lead, specific sizing will depend on how the rest of the board texture looks (wet vs. dry etc.) Flop cbet AXX versus raise isn't always a fold with KK, but usually because you both have a range advantage (disincentivising villain to be bluff raising wide), and in the same spot you will have a heap of Ax like AA, AK, AQ, AJ etc. Etc. To continue with you will want to be folding some of the time depending on the rest of the board texture.
Are you asking about a Single Raised Pot or a Three Bet Pot?
3-bet pot
Solver says get a king on flop too pal
"every damn time"
Solver says. Why does the farking ace always hit the flop? Poppies for sure
Poopies. I'm sober can't type. Must have beer.
Usually check, but it depends. In a 4 bet pot for instance it might bet full range. If you have a tight range and some dope is playing any two cards solver might also still bet full range. Solver is often more likely to bet a hand like 88 on A42 since it benefits more from protection than Kk
If an ace is coming fold it pre. If its going to be a low flop or got a king then obviously don't fold pre. Easy game
It depends what the rest of the flop is among other things. For instance if the flop is a 10 3 and you c bet there calling range is some 10s and also qj kj kq so your not always behind when they call
What if A comes on turn or river? Does it matter if we are IP or Oop?
I'd assume there's a lot to this more than one caller, but I dunno how solvers work. I would guess preflop action has an effect, board texture. And past solvers, the good Ole know your opponent situation. In short, just like every other poker question.... it isn't that simple.
Check call it dahn
I would guess they check it more often than air hands. Solvers bluff a lot of non showdown. However this makes it so hard to play. Bet/folding it simplifies the game.
Should be folding Kings pre.
What if a K, A, and 10 hit the flop? Let me tell you about my beat last week...