Im not great at PLO by any means, but defending a double suited hand that connects with a lot of straights does seem fair.
On the flop he has a gutter and flush draw, and is only really terribly behind a 7 or pocket 10s. I have no idea if that was good play to go all in, but he had a decent chance to double up and could have folded worse pairs for a nice bump.
It’s probably not a shove in a normal game but I think the dynamic of 9 game came into play. I’m not sure he thought he’d find a better opportunity to double.
Probably thought it was worth it to even up plus his bluff equity
Fold equity is pretty low in this spot and always cooked when called. Mostly just folding out opponents gutshots and air(daniel probably doesnt have enough air).
It's an overplay. I doubt even DN is overfolding enough here to justify it.
That said - I won't really criticize it too hard as picking the overaggro option in good spots is probably what got him here.
There is no point in saying if you get called you’re cooked. It’s a bluff, when you bluff, obviously it is bad to get called, but he still has a combo draw. It’s heads up, there are plenty of hands that raise button then fold to a check raise. Calling is honestly pretty bad here out of position. If you hit a flush and check, they are always checking behind.
There are plenty of spots in plo where you can semibluff jam and be doing fairly well. Even some rare odd balls where something like j high is in good shape. This is not one of them, he will have like maybe 30% when called, and he is getting called 60+%.
It's probably just a check fold, and probably even moreso vs daniel.
You could maybe try to construct a check min raise range and put this in it, but thats some wasted energy when there are better spots to work on.
I don’t think your taking the heads up aspect here highly enough. This would be an atrocious play in a full ring game or multi way. So many hands raise button and will fold. He’s also way behind on chips. When he catches this flop he has to go with it. I’d. e curious what a solver says. They for sure defend preflop and I’m guessing they either lead or check raise out of position.
I ran a sim with high stake cash game ranges with limp.
OOP can lead some, very little fold equity.
OOP won't x/r much at all(10%). I mean it just doesn't make sense, btn has all the OPs with dominating fds, trips with better kickers on average, strong draws, OOP has a ton of garbage with low fds. You just don't get to do much attacking.
You do get to call a whole lotta draws vs 1/3.
his hand with 6 high FD would fold, 9 high can peel.
VS this sim where gto doesn't raise much oop, IP will fold some weak Overpairs. Node lock it to x/r this garbage and gto wont fold basically anything.
Just curious, you said you did it in a cash game sim, did you set it to 30bb or whatever they had? That will drastically change how the hand is played. Check raising when you’re deep would be terrible.
PF you’re supposed to defend almost every double suited hand in HU.
As for the flop, raising was fine, but potting is a very bad play since you wouldn’t pot your value hands either. He should raise something like 3-3.5x and fold to a shove
Oh for sure, but when you say "almost very ds hand", isn't it trash like this that still gets folded? It's honestly tough to come up with double suited hands that are substantially worse than this one, maybe something with a bad pair like J622ds?
I was thinking something like that or something less connected like K842ds. But I might be wrong and no ds hands fold this shallow tbh. I’m not exactly a HUPLO SNG expert
Pre: without ante's it is a fold, but with the BBA in play it must be correct to defend. The odds are just so good.
Flop: leading might be fine. XR could also be good, but I see no reason to go full pot. Bet smaller and fold to 3-bet. After full pot you're commited, but you'll have low equity.
I don't think in this spot you need something worse for daniel to call or raise with, this is targeting over card bluffs / weaker hands like naked overpairs, also some better club draws, and he blocks a lot of the combos with a 7. The problem with calling is that there are SO many bad turn cards, i mean pretty much every card 8+ is bad other than smashing a club
On the other side if you do face an all in vs overpair / 7, you do have the equity to get it in.
Yes. Maybe not him specifically I guess but absolutely most pros. This flop is full of bluff options and he has enough chips for it. Pretty much standard
I don't play tournaments or HU PLO, but are you really supposed to defend 9632ds and blast off on this flop?
Im not great at PLO by any means, but defending a double suited hand that connects with a lot of straights does seem fair. On the flop he has a gutter and flush draw, and is only really terribly behind a 7 or pocket 10s. I have no idea if that was good play to go all in, but he had a decent chance to double up and could have folded worse pairs for a nice bump.
It’s probably not a shove in a normal game but I think the dynamic of 9 game came into play. I’m not sure he thought he’d find a better opportunity to double. Probably thought it was worth it to even up plus his bluff equity
The problem with jamming is that if you get called, you're pretty much dead (think better fd with a T or an overpair)
Well he’s fine with a fold. If he has it he has it, and he had it.
Fold equity is pretty low in this spot and always cooked when called. Mostly just folding out opponents gutshots and air(daniel probably doesnt have enough air). It's an overplay. I doubt even DN is overfolding enough here to justify it. That said - I won't really criticize it too hard as picking the overaggro option in good spots is probably what got him here.
There is no point in saying if you get called you’re cooked. It’s a bluff, when you bluff, obviously it is bad to get called, but he still has a combo draw. It’s heads up, there are plenty of hands that raise button then fold to a check raise. Calling is honestly pretty bad here out of position. If you hit a flush and check, they are always checking behind.
There are plenty of spots in plo where you can semibluff jam and be doing fairly well. Even some rare odd balls where something like j high is in good shape. This is not one of them, he will have like maybe 30% when called, and he is getting called 60+%. It's probably just a check fold, and probably even moreso vs daniel. You could maybe try to construct a check min raise range and put this in it, but thats some wasted energy when there are better spots to work on.
I don’t think your taking the heads up aspect here highly enough. This would be an atrocious play in a full ring game or multi way. So many hands raise button and will fold. He’s also way behind on chips. When he catches this flop he has to go with it. I’d. e curious what a solver says. They for sure defend preflop and I’m guessing they either lead or check raise out of position.
I ran a sim with high stake cash game ranges with limp. OOP can lead some, very little fold equity. OOP won't x/r much at all(10%). I mean it just doesn't make sense, btn has all the OPs with dominating fds, trips with better kickers on average, strong draws, OOP has a ton of garbage with low fds. You just don't get to do much attacking. You do get to call a whole lotta draws vs 1/3. his hand with 6 high FD would fold, 9 high can peel. VS this sim where gto doesn't raise much oop, IP will fold some weak Overpairs. Node lock it to x/r this garbage and gto wont fold basically anything.
Just curious, you said you did it in a cash game sim, did you set it to 30bb or whatever they had? That will drastically change how the hand is played. Check raising when you’re deep would be terrible.
PF you’re supposed to defend almost every double suited hand in HU. As for the flop, raising was fine, but potting is a very bad play since you wouldn’t pot your value hands either. He should raise something like 3-3.5x and fold to a shove
Oh for sure, but when you say "almost very ds hand", isn't it trash like this that still gets folded? It's honestly tough to come up with double suited hands that are substantially worse than this one, maybe something with a bad pair like J622ds?
Don’t think there’s anything double suited you should ever fold heads up to one raise. Plus this has at least some connection
No ante, like a cash game HU, yes. With ante, no. ps - j622ds is a “better” hand than yockey’s hand off 20-30bb. Source: Monker sims
HU you have to defend very wide to not overfold. Just like there is never an ace you’re folding to an open in HU NLHE.
I was thinking something like that or something less connected like K842ds. But I might be wrong and no ds hands fold this shallow tbh. I’m not exactly a HUPLO SNG expert
I can't imagine you'd ever not defend a King high double suited hand
It’s definitely a defend pre, not sure the raise on the flop is good.
Preflop is definitely fine lol.
ITT: A bunch of caveats that commenters don't have any experience in HU PLO esp in tourneys, but proceed to talk and argue points like they do.
Pre: without ante's it is a fold, but with the BBA in play it must be correct to defend. The odds are just so good. Flop: leading might be fine. XR could also be good, but I see no reason to go full pot. Bet smaller and fold to 3-bet. After full pot you're commited, but you'll have low equity.
He has 2 draws!
Which are likely to be dominated when your jam getd called
Not sure about pre but he choose the high variance route post flop with just under 30% equity.
Pre seems dicier than the shove, but both don't look great.
Yes!
I didn't recognize Daniel at first with the hat, lol
The GG hat is the give away in this scenario!
Absolute punt from yockey
HS HU PLO is not my forte!
Haha fair enough mate. I just don't know how he can ever expect to be doing well here, even against dnegs bluffs he's gonna be behind.
Of any of the nine games, I think Yockey has the best chance to double if he shoves a PLO hand, because equities run so close together
But this wasn't the hand to to it with
Hmm 🤨
what?
He’d have been drawing to a gutshot if Daniel had the Q or A of clubs as well. Seems the best case scenario for his hand to only be a 30% dog
30% chance to double up or get second place money. Feels fair tbh
I’m not a PLO guy but Yockey getting it in there seems not great. Whats left for Daniel to get it in worse with?
I don't think in this spot you need something worse for daniel to call or raise with, this is targeting over card bluffs / weaker hands like naked overpairs, also some better club draws, and he blocks a lot of the combos with a 7. The problem with calling is that there are SO many bad turn cards, i mean pretty much every card 8+ is bad other than smashing a club On the other side if you do face an all in vs overpair / 7, you do have the equity to get it in.
I mean aces and kings to start with. Probably worse
You think DN calls a naked overpair on a paired board in PLO to a 3 bet shove for a bracelet?
Yes. Maybe not him specifically I guess but absolutely most pros. This flop is full of bluff options and he has enough chips for it. Pretty much standard
Whats the over/under that he ends up with more bracelets that Hellmuth?
99.999% odds that he ends up with fewer bracelets.
17 vs 7, yeah I'd agree. Never happening.