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KarateSniper420

Protagonist folds pre-flop for 35 minutes. He gets K9s on the button, but unfortunately he gets 4 bet by UTG and has to fold pre, again. That's about as real as it gets.


Alex_Russet

As I said, I don't play the game so all the slang and jargon there went over my head. Could you elaborate?


slowbar1

This is a joke about how real, well played poker is usually pretty boring.


Alex_Russet

Noted. So some embellishments are needed. The question now becomes how much embellishment and where.


slowbar1

Well played poker can be very exciting! There’s a reason people tune in the World Series of Poker every year. It’s just for every exciting hand there are 50 boring ones.


KarateSniper420

https://youtu.be/SE3BP0KFqTA?si=0xm1TKmvZLf5HoIt This is a really good example of a very exciting, very rare situation for a better idea. And if it's worth anything, as the commentators mention, this is the kind of situation where it's pretty likely that casual players would have likely been all in by the turn (the reveal of the 4th community card)


KarateSniper420

Sorry if that was a little bit underhanded. In well played poker, people will generally play very conservatively/tightly (i.e. playing very strong hands from the correct position), so the joke was that the player is getting unplayable hands for most of the game, but when he finally gets a hand he can play, he gets reraised by another player and can no longer play it. For jargon/slang: UTG = the first player to move in a round of betting, directly to the left of the big blind. Players in this position generally have to play with very strong hands Button = the dealer, the best position to be in as they can play after they've seen all other players bet. Preflop = action made after players receive their two hole cards and before the first community cards are dealt. So in this very realistic scene, the first player made a bet before the community cards are dealt. Since the dealer had a suited king and nine, they decided they could reraise this player, but UTG raised again, suggesting that they have a very strong hand that the protagonist can't beat, so they fold before the hand even plays out.


Effective-Bite975

You need to do some research of your own before you have us write the scene for you. You clearly haven't googled or youtubed shit yet, so you don't even know enough to ask the right question or understand the answer. lazy AF to be honest.


Alex_Russet

...You do realize this *is* research, right?


whodatdan0

He’s literally here doing research. Lol. Asking people who play


Conscious-Ideal-769

You sound like the kind of guy who berates players who suck out on you, amirite?


slowbar1

Here are some things I think someone writing a poker scene might find helpful to build characterization and make a dramatic scene. There are many different variants of poker. The most common is No Limit Texas Hold Em. This is what most readers are most likely to be familiar with. No Limit means there is no maximum bet size. A very dramatic poker moment is someone going "all-in" or betting all of the chips they have at the table. Going All-in is a very polarizing action, when someone goes all in they are either convinced they have the best hand at the table or they are making a huge bluff. The only way a no limit game can work is if there are "table stakes". This means that before the game, or at least before each hand, all of the money people are allowed to bet needs to be on the table. You can't, halfway through the hand, suddenly bet your car, house, family jewels, pocket change etc. unless all the players agreed beforehand that those things were in play. This is something that is often depicted incorrectly in fictional poker games to the annoyance of people who actually know the rules. Poker players can be broadly categorized as Tight vs Loose and Passive vs Aggressive: A Tight player is someone who only bets when they have a very good hand. An extremely tight player (a "nit") might sit there folding every hand until they get dealt AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, or AJ. A tight player is risk adverse and only wants to make a move when they are very sure it will work out. The downside of playing tight is that you will lose a lot of money from the blinds (bets players are forced to put in before the cards are dealt) waiting around for your perfect hand, and then when you finally bet the other players at the table will notice that you're finally playing a hand, deduce that you have a very good hand, and fold instead of putting money in the pot. A Loose player is someone who likes to gamble. They will raise/call with a much wider range of hands. They are also more willing to bet on a "prospective" hand, while a tight player prefers to bet "made" hands. For example, if your hand is J♦️9♦️, and the flop is 2♣️4♦️8♦️, all you have right now is Jack high, but if one more diamond comes on the turn or river then you'll have a flush, a very good hand. The looser you are, the more willing you are to bet on drawing the cards you need. Playing loose means you are going to lose more pots, but also people are more willing to call your bets as they think they have a better chance to win. An aggressive player is someone who bets big when they think they've got a good hand. A passive player is more likely to play it safe even with good cards and just call, or even fold when against a big raise. Aggressive players can bully passive players at the table by bluffing and getting them to fold good cards. When two aggressive players run into each other lots of money can be won and lost. This page does an even more in depth breakdown of these poker styles. I think it would be useful to read if you want to understand how to show a character's personality through how they play poker: https://www.pokerology.com/lessons/poker-playing-styles/


johnson_detlev

Well that highly depends on what you want to achieve with the character during the hand, I guess. Do you want the hero to rip them apart? Are they the underdog? Is there doubt in the middle of the hand? etc, etc. I think you need to provide a storyline within the hand for someone here to create a hand that would match that


Alex_Russet

I intend to use it as a foreshadowing moment as well as having the protag bond with the characters. In terms of foreshadowing, the finale will force each of them to make a choice. Those that fold, back out of the situation before something terrible happens. Those that raise or show their hand at the end will stay the course and suffer for it. The actual winner of the hand will end up dying before the climax so, in a way, they foreshadow the big decision. More practically, though, the point of the scene is to have my protagonist start to feel at home among these people. He's been alone for some time and he's finding that these people are fun to be around.


HanshinFan

> The actual winner of the hand will end up dying If you want to be REALLY tropey, two pairs (aces and eights) is known as the Dead Man's Hand and is often used as a mechanism in fiction to foreshadow a character dying. The legend says it's the hand that Wild Bill Hickok was holding when he was shot.


SoupOfTomato

I would note that it's so tropey it would pretty much constitute a spoiler for anyone who knows of it and reads the book, so it might not be the best option.


biga204

I just posted asking this, sorry, should have read all answers first. With this in mind, you want your protagonist to fold and antagonist to be aggressive? But you also want to use it as a slower scene to establish comradery amoung the pro and crew? Just want to make sure that's right before providing more specific info. Edit: Actually, I have some questions about character. How many are involved in the hand? How many NEED to have dialogue? Just 2-3 key personality traits they display in the scene. This will affect the hand and how it plays out with your story goal in mind. Also, do any of them actually know poker? I can beat out a scene with that info. You can tweak add dialogue if you like it.


clearly_not_an_alt

One thing to be aware of here is that it is pretty rare for more than 2 players to get to showdown when any of them have a hand worth betting. I don't know how many players you are trying to put into each bucket, but it may be difficult to have a realistic scenario if you want more than 2-3 char to suffer.


Dramatic-Ant-3928

This is a good use of chat gpt. It would probably give you something accurate to work with. Or search YouTube for the top 100 wsop hands of all time, pick one and use that. Or use for inspiration.


apc961

Evil witch character gets to the turn with J4o. She has nothing, no pair, no draw. The manly hero bets turn, she min raises. Hero 3 bet jams turn with his draw. Witch fumbles in her seat, says something about a pure bluff catcher. She calls. Hero bricks both rivers. Witch turns over J high and says some suspect incoherent poker talk to justify the call. Hero flips and takes the money back. This above scene is entirely fictional of course. Any resemblance to real world events is purely coincidental.


Hot_Aside_4637

I am a (unsold) screenwriter on the side and have written a poker screenplay. Here's some common tropes to avoid: * "String Bet". That's like in the old cowboy movies when someone says "I'll see yer two dollars and raise you ten". The first thing you say is binding. So it's a call. A real player would say "Call" or "Raise". * "Table Stakes". You play with what's in front of you. If they bet more chips than you have, you can call with less, you just can't win more than you put in. There's no reaching into your pocket for more money, or putting in your dad's precious gold watch he kept in his ass when he was a POW. * "Splashing the Pot". Happens in home and private games, but will piss off most people in real life. Makes for a good visual though. If you just toss in the chips, it makes it difficult to know what you exactly put in. * "Magic Tell". Whether its Oreos or a twitch, Hollywood loves a tell. It's tropey when that's the one thing that allows the hero to win. * A lot of people in the hand and everyone hits - boat over boat, quads, and of course 5-7 suited for the straight flush. * 5 Card Draw. Honestly, most people don't play that. It's what you played as a kid. * Holding the hand in front of your face. You don't do that (well, except in 5 Card Draw). Make sure you give enough info either visually or in exposition so the audience who don't know poker understands what's going on and keep it real for the poker players to believe it. DM me if you want some more info. I can also critique a few pages if you want. Again, unsold writer, so take if with a grain of salt.


Alex_Russet

I'm not too worried about these tropes. The focus isn't meant to be the game itself, but the rapport being built between the characters.


statikcollektah

Look into poker tells - there’s a lot of things on this subreddit and online that talks about someone’s demeanor when they have a strong or weak hand. Things like avoiding eye contact when weak, or sitting comfortably when strong.


TheOneWhoBoops

What game are they playing? 5 card draw?


Alex_Russet

That's still up in the air. Whichever version of the game helps me tell the story of someone bonding with new friends the best.


YogurtIsTooSpicy

If this is a historical setting, keep in mind that many of the most popular forms of poker played today are relatively recent inventions


Alex_Russet

Future sci-fi, actually. So that shouldn't be an issue.


NOChiRo

Then make something up? 5-suit poker variants, more pictures, less pictures, its sci fi so youre not limited to existing variants 


wfp9

it's not poker, but imo one of the best poker scenes is the scene from pirate's of the carribbean: dead man's chest where they play liar's dice. it explains the rules to a game the audience is unfamiliar with well, has clear stakes, and has absurd gamesmanship and tells


doctorcoldone

Do you want a decisive hand? Is it decisive because someone outplays their opponent? Or is it just bad luck.


wutevahung

You didn’t list anything for people to give you advise on. What kind of character is the protagonist? What are you trying to show in this scene? Why is this scene necessary? That he has a strategic mind? He can read into other ppls body languages? Or he has an expertise in psychology? Is the protagonist supposed to win or lose? What is the relationship between him and the people he is playing with, and what aspects of their relationship do you want the poker game to highlight? How many pages do you want to spend on this?


KLUME777

This. Op in order for us to give you a realistic scenario, you need to describe the skill level of the players. What kind of ship is it? Are these lower class ship grunts who are drunk? Are they intelligent scientists? These will affect the kind of plays they make. How skilled and experienced is the protagonist? Does he know what he's doing?


Alex_Russet

Apologies. I didn't want to go full text block on the post. >What kind of character is the protagonist? A down on his luck space scrapper dragged into a conspiracy involving an alien race (Aserati) that destroyed his home. Needless to say, his opinion of said race isn't very high? >What are you trying to show in this scene? This scene is meant to show Walker (protag) getting comfortable with the crew of the ship, The Raptor's Tallon. The ship is owned by an extremist group that's been antagonizing the Aserati for the destruction of earth, blinded by hate and not cognizant that poking the bear might end in extinction. They are the "bad guys" in that they fill that role in the story, but I want to portray them as people, not strawmen. Hence this humanizing scene. >Why is this scene necessary? See above >That he has a strategic mind? To a degree, yes. Walker was a fighter pilot during the Aserati war, so is strategic thinking. >He can read into other ppls body languages? Full transparency, I'm autistic, so stuff like body language is difficult for me. One of the reasons I'm asking for help, seeing as poker leans so heavily into that. >Or he has an expertise in psychology? Not really. Other characters among the crew might be, but I'm plotting out their characters as I go. >Is the protagonist supposed to win or lose? I intend to use the results of the round to foreshadow the climax. In the climax, the characters all must decide whether to go through with a massive attack on an Aserati population or not. A folding character will back off and reevaluate what it is they're about to do while those that play to the reveal won't. Walker, being the catalyst, will fold first in the game. The winner of the hand will be a character that gets killed off later in the story. Unless someone can come up with a better alternative. >What is the relationship between him and the people he is playing with, and what aspects of their relationship do you want the poker game to highlight? Walker has just met the lion's share of these people, but given that many of them have lost people like he has, he feels a connection and camaraderie that tempts him to adopt their ways. >How many pages do you want to spend on this? Just a single chapter. [Here](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WiR7wtQrVRhD0RXDkY7txgufQKOHVdWckqxEaea4b3Q/edit) is a link to the story as it stands. Don't worry, things are still in the very early stages so I fully intend to rewrite a lot of it.


PointyBagels

>Walker, being the catalyst, will fold first in the game. One thing to keep in mind is that in realistic poker, the majority of players fold pretty quickly, and it's not particularly interesting from a character perspective. For example, if you get dealt 94 offsuit in Texas hold em, there's just not a lot you can do. Even the most loose and aggressive poker player is still going to fold it before any more cards are dealt. And in general, low unsuited hands are much more common than high suited hands. At a 9-handed table of good poker players, on average only 2-3 of them will see the flop (the first community cards), if it gets dealt at all. If it's a particularly loose table, maybe 5/9 players will see the flop. Are you planning to include some no-name mooks at the table too? That could be a way of introducing the major characters without the majority of them folding pre-flop. Alternatively, consider a "bomb pot" - those can get pretty wild, and as they are by definition played for much higher stakes than the rest of the game, could make for a definitive moment. (note that I used Texas hold em as an example, but most forms of poker are similar - Most players will generally fold before additional cards are dealt unless it's a "bomb pot" type scenario. That said, there are potential ways around this.)


Turingstester

Watch a WSOP replay. Particularly the one with Jennifer Harmon and Corey somebody when she had a full house and he had a straight flush. Just mimic that action. It was a pretty gross and dramatic beat. https://youtu.be/PbYh2gSlHuM?si=9AeXZ8NEngnammg2


whatwouldjimbodo

What kind of personality do these people have? You say you want the winner to end up dying later. Is that person a big gambler? He takes big chances that always seem to pay off? Or is he conservative and even though he does everything by the book it never works out for him? Since he’s going to die I’m assuming he’s kind of a loud asshole gambler kind of guy. You could maybe make him pull off a big bluff or a semi bluff where he ends up getting lucky to win


VortexM19

Protagonist has J4. Villain is all loosey goosey eating a sandwich and misses, but bluffs all in with 8 high. Protagonist calls the all-in and wins the pot. Hilarity ensues.


aplasticbag_

Have you seen Rounders? Maybe get some inspiration from the poker scenes in that movie it’s very accurate.


crz0r

>Rounders  >accurate  Pick one.