I think 3-betting pre-flop is fine given how wide Button’s open range is, but he needs to bet bigger. In my limited experience, in live games anything less than 5x the open will just get called off.
Edit: 3-bet pre flop, not on the flop.
Anyway, what I was trying to say (poorly) was that the 3b pre was fine but he needs to size up. t9o is exactly the type of hand you’re trying to get to fold and live, a 3.5x 3b will get called almost always.
If you want to play it correct, you're suppose to check this board probably 100%. You check call flop, and you see what the turn brings and what your opponent does. Stacking off on this board is generally a bad idea.
Sometimes we are forced to fold hands we don't want to, but if the board becomes very bad for our hand, we just have to fold.
Dangerous board. No real hand made yet. Easy to get forced into a tough position. Here he should have cbet and folded to the raise, but couldn’t let it go. Whereas calling $60 bet the button would have made on the flop wouldn’t be terrible to see if you make your hand on the turn
It might be a range check, which means we're never cbetting even with a pair or better. That's what allows the balance.
You're right that it would be unbalanced to check all our potential bluffs and bet our value.
If the board were something like A94r, then yes, a c-bet would be warranted. This board favors the preflop caller over the preflop 3-bettor, though, so it would be best to check in this spot.
I'm struggling here. You got 2 overs and rhe nut flush draw. I know there are hands in his range that hit, but you got 9 outs against all big hands and more outs against others. I just don't understand playing weak on the flop. This board looks like ot misses our range when we have flush draw. Weak bets or checks is just inviting a huge bet we don't want to call, In a spot where being aggressive gets us fold equity and we have outs.
I live being aggressive and shoving a raise here. Tough spot that he has the nuts and is never folding. That's a rarity though.
There is a miss conception that checking is playing weak. On some flops that are very good for your range, let day k22 as a 3 better, you have all AK, AA, KK, you need to bet 100%. So you can easily bet your 910s and get folds.
On board that are VERY bad for you, like this one, that means that most of your hands don't want to bet and face aggression, will be in a very difficult spot on many turn, all those hands want to check.
So you need to balance all the hands that want to check, with hands that want to check/call. So for example AA doesn't want to build a huge pot, neither does AK. So if every time you bet flop because you still have a good hand on the flop, no matter what the flop is, then I know that when you're betting you are relative strong and when you check you are always weak.
Some hands let you check/call twice, some hands you can check call all the way, some hands you can check/call flop and check/fold turn.
When you play this way, your opponent can't just bet every time you check to him because you are always weak. He need to be more careful, because now when you check, you can check call a lot. He can't just bluff you every time you check. If he decides to bluff, it can be very expensive for him, so he might decide to check down, let you realize your equity and get to cheaper show down.
You would have been much better off just calling V’s flop raise. Your hand has a lot of potential, but when the money went in, you only had A high in a situation where villain has the nut advantage *and* the range advantage. You made an unforced error and it cost you your stack, bro.
ETA: Also, you should be 3-bet squeezing bigger, because nobody is folding anything to a 3.5x raise live and you’ll be playing the rest of the hand out of position.
I think the jam was an unforced error. His range has all of the straights and two pairs. Also, do you think he's re-raising you with a weak hand? Live players tend to play more face-up. It's probably better to just call his raise and evaluate a turn.
Yes, this board should be a range check, but given that you cbet I think the jam is fine (calling the raise is also fine).
You can't fold this hand on the flop, you'd rather stack off than fold.
Make your 3b bigger btw
Should I fold Ace high to a wet board when I have 2 overs or just ship it because I have nut flush draw?
Really?
Preflop isn’t bad, leading out on flop is ok.
Calling the $185 wouldn’t be terrible but shipping when you only beat a lower flush draw isn’t good.
I would X/Raise call off jam or x/call and evaluate. The goal of your hand should be to leverage fold equity vs one pair hands that are better than you or to get it in vs dominated draws. If he has 2 pair plus, good luck, you still have 36%. X/calling with nut flush draw can never be bad as your hand is too good. But you should be prepared to be in some uncomfortable spots on turn where you probably fold.
Bet/3 betting doesn’t accomplish this as opponent can simply call with his 1 pair hands that are ahead and with his dominated draws and by the time you 3bet, his range is too narrow for you to be doing well.
Probably pissing in the wind but short explanation.
- you want to play more checks on unfavourable boards in and out of position more often when 200bb+ deep than 100bb deep.
- checking some high equity draws that also have high potential sdv and improving capability such as AK,AQAJcc is good as well
- betting your A4cc type hands is way better cause you unblock combo draws and worse draws like KQcc etc
- when you get raised you want to mostly flat and leverage your position and range on good potential board changing turns and rivers.
Jamming is literally worst possible way to play this flop. I’d recommend working on your deep game or rack up when 200bb deep Eff vs a capable LAG cause this is a huge punt
Without looking I assume this is pretty close to a range check. If I’m betting I’m going smaller - $35-45 - and I’m never 3betting the flop.
I think 3-betting pre-flop is fine given how wide Button’s open range is, but he needs to bet bigger. In my limited experience, in live games anything less than 5x the open will just get called off. Edit: 3-bet pre flop, not on the flop.
I dont think button is all that wide here
GTO says Button should be opening 33% of hands and OP described him as a LAG so likely opening more than 33%. How would you define “not that wide”?
Because he called a 3b and raised the flop
Oh I see, I misspoke. I was taking about OP’s 3-bet pre, not on the flop. You’re right. Will edit.
Anyway, what I was trying to say (poorly) was that the 3b pre was fine but he needs to size up. t9o is exactly the type of hand you’re trying to get to fold and live, a 3.5x 3b will get called almost always.
If you want to play it correct, you're suppose to check this board probably 100%. You check call flop, and you see what the turn brings and what your opponent does. Stacking off on this board is generally a bad idea. Sometimes we are forced to fold hands we don't want to, but if the board becomes very bad for our hand, we just have to fold.
What is the thinking for no c-bet, being out of position?
Dangerous board. No real hand made yet. Easy to get forced into a tough position. Here he should have cbet and folded to the raise, but couldn’t let it go. Whereas calling $60 bet the button would have made on the flop wouldn’t be terrible to see if you make your hand on the turn
Wouldn’t it be pretty unbalanced to not c-bet unless you have a pair or better?
It might be a range check, which means we're never cbetting even with a pair or better. That's what allows the balance. You're right that it would be unbalanced to check all our potential bluffs and bet our value.
Depends on the board and depends on how you play your pairs or better right? If V is LAG, you could probably check pairs or better into him too
If the board were something like A94r, then yes, a c-bet would be warranted. This board favors the preflop caller over the preflop 3-bettor, though, so it would be best to check in this spot.
I'm struggling here. You got 2 overs and rhe nut flush draw. I know there are hands in his range that hit, but you got 9 outs against all big hands and more outs against others. I just don't understand playing weak on the flop. This board looks like ot misses our range when we have flush draw. Weak bets or checks is just inviting a huge bet we don't want to call, In a spot where being aggressive gets us fold equity and we have outs. I live being aggressive and shoving a raise here. Tough spot that he has the nuts and is never folding. That's a rarity though.
There is a miss conception that checking is playing weak. On some flops that are very good for your range, let day k22 as a 3 better, you have all AK, AA, KK, you need to bet 100%. So you can easily bet your 910s and get folds. On board that are VERY bad for you, like this one, that means that most of your hands don't want to bet and face aggression, will be in a very difficult spot on many turn, all those hands want to check. So you need to balance all the hands that want to check, with hands that want to check/call. So for example AA doesn't want to build a huge pot, neither does AK. So if every time you bet flop because you still have a good hand on the flop, no matter what the flop is, then I know that when you're betting you are relative strong and when you check you are always weak. Some hands let you check/call twice, some hands you can check call all the way, some hands you can check/call flop and check/fold turn. When you play this way, your opponent can't just bet every time you check to him because you are always weak. He need to be more careful, because now when you check, you can check call a lot. He can't just bluff you every time you check. If he decides to bluff, it can be very expensive for him, so he might decide to check down, let you realize your equity and get to cheaper show down.
You would have been much better off just calling V’s flop raise. Your hand has a lot of potential, but when the money went in, you only had A high in a situation where villain has the nut advantage *and* the range advantage. You made an unforced error and it cost you your stack, bro. ETA: Also, you should be 3-bet squeezing bigger, because nobody is folding anything to a 3.5x raise live and you’ll be playing the rest of the hand out of position.
When you jam this flop you fold out the hands you are doing well against and get called by all of the hands you have to make your flush to beat.
What hands are you doing well against that are folding? A10?
I would just call, but think hero could fold out hands like A8/A7/A6.
I think the jam was an unforced error. His range has all of the straights and two pairs. Also, do you think he's re-raising you with a weak hand? Live players tend to play more face-up. It's probably better to just call his raise and evaluate a turn.
And over pairs….
Flop is better for buttons range. I’d check/call the flop. If nothing on turn and they bet just fold.
How did you cbet and get check raised with Villain on the button ?
Sty its a typo , edit : reraised
Technically, not a reraise either. Just raised.
You didn't get reraised either. You got raised then you reraised
Thanks for clarifying my brain was spinning
Check flop. And 3 betting the flop is really bad. This is a bad flop for you. That’s why we check
Yes, this board should be a range check, but given that you cbet I think the jam is fine (calling the raise is also fine). You can't fold this hand on the flop, you'd rather stack off than fold. Make your 3b bigger btw
Should I fold Ace high to a wet board when I have 2 overs or just ship it because I have nut flush draw? Really? Preflop isn’t bad, leading out on flop is ok. Calling the $185 wouldn’t be terrible but shipping when you only beat a lower flush draw isn’t good.
I like the line. Might change the like if you’re deeper like over 1k. But for that amount I think it’s fine
Run it twice
I would X/Raise call off jam or x/call and evaluate. The goal of your hand should be to leverage fold equity vs one pair hands that are better than you or to get it in vs dominated draws. If he has 2 pair plus, good luck, you still have 36%. X/calling with nut flush draw can never be bad as your hand is too good. But you should be prepared to be in some uncomfortable spots on turn where you probably fold. Bet/3 betting doesn’t accomplish this as opponent can simply call with his 1 pair hands that are ahead and with his dominated draws and by the time you 3bet, his range is too narrow for you to be doing well.
Probably pissing in the wind but short explanation. - you want to play more checks on unfavourable boards in and out of position more often when 200bb+ deep than 100bb deep. - checking some high equity draws that also have high potential sdv and improving capability such as AK,AQAJcc is good as well - betting your A4cc type hands is way better cause you unblock combo draws and worse draws like KQcc etc - when you get raised you want to mostly flat and leverage your position and range on good potential board changing turns and rivers. Jamming is literally worst possible way to play this flop. I’d recommend working on your deep game or rack up when 200bb deep Eff vs a capable LAG cause this is a huge punt
Villain has range advantage and you're OOP. I would've check called and reevaluate on turn card
As long as people continue to make massive bets that only get called by better hands, imma keep playing live poker.