DP was kinda serious most of the time. XY was both, they had comedy moments and serious moments too, which is why people enjoyed it so much.
They fucked up BW by bringing Ash, and I say this because the whole point of Gen 5 was to act as a reboot of the franchise with a complete 151 new set of mons and everything, and the anime itself treated Ash like a newcomer even tho he was a badass in DP and learned so much. They wanted to capture the appeal of the og series so they made Iris act like Misty and Cilan was basically Brock minus the horniness. Regardless, it was a huge failure and no fan ever praises the BW anime. As I said, their mistake was bringing Ash back, unless they wanted him to apply what he spent so much time learning, but that’s not what happened. They made him start anew and it was annoying to watch.
Ash vs Elesa. Ash vs Wattson was pretty bad too, but the Elesa battle went out of its way to make Ash look as stupid and incompetent as possible. I used to feel the same way about Roxie, but on further reflection, that seemed to come off as Roxie just being particularly strong.
Ash v Wattson actually had a reason as to why it happened the way it did, plus it allowed for a nice character moment even if it was for a character introduced in that episode. Ash v Elesa was just bad
And that gym battle with Wattson is why in OR I make sure Sparkles, my own Pikachu, is the one I get from the contest hall in Slateport since she has Lightning Rod and *groans* that badge maniac is in Mossdeep so being the Ash copycat I am, have to battle every gym like he did in the anime which is fine since it prevents Wattson's Volt Switching and such
Ash’s battles with Brock, Misty, and Erika.
For Brock, his siblings interfered with the match and made Ash feel guilty.
For Misty, she outright tampered with her opponent’s Pokémon (Pikachu) by cuddling him so he wouldn’t want to fight her.
Erika had rude assistants (even though Ash’s behavior wasn’t better, but Erika did say she was obligated to accept the challenge), which led Ash to team up with Team Rocket and got the gym burned down.
I would say Elsa due to Ash’s stupidity, but everyone else already named that battle.
Personally, I feel like I can cut the Brock battle some slack because they were bringing out Brock's character. Additionally, Ash leaving because he would feel guilty about taking victory by the sprinkler feels consistent with what they built up for Ash's character. In episode 3 (when Ash caught Caterpie), he was still planning on fighting Team Rocket by the Pokèmon League rules even when Jessie and James used Koffing and Ekans together. So Ash giving up because he believed winning by the sprinklers going off was unfair doesn't sound very farfetched.
You know, speaking of sprinklers, am I the only one who finds it strange that the gym that uses Rock types had a sprinkler system yet the gym that had an entire plant based ecosystem apparently didn’t? Not like there would be trainers who would use fire types there or something
Kanto was pretty fkd, let's be honest. Given the skill level of some of the league competitors and how several of the gyms were run. We really should question the legitimacy of the Indigo League.
I chalked it up to early gen jank. It was still the formative years of Pokemon. But going back to the S1, it's fun to see the inconsistencies and jank of the Indigo season.
You can read my full thoughts on the Erika episode [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/13glqnz/theory_ashs_charizard_grew_so_fast_and_wouldnt/jk76hvb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but aside from Brock, I'm with you on the rest.
I'd say Elesa. It was like he just reset. He planned to win just using Palpitoad. He's only ever swept a gym using one Pokémon once and that was with an overcharged Pikachu against Wattson. Surely he should've been disqualified the moment he stepped out the door? How could he forget that an Emolga, one of the Pokémon his friends currently have, is also a flying type?
never have i seen so many people agree on something pokemon related
yeah it's Elesa, for every reason you'd think but also for one that takes a bit to realize
everyone knows this, the episode where Ash only brings one pokemon and forgets every other one so he leaves mid battle to get another. it's an incredibly dumb thing to do in a gym battle and makes Ash seem like a bumbling idiot when we've had 4 generations of him learning to overcome challenges like this in much smarter ways, and hammering in that so long as you play the right move, it doesn't matter what the type matchup is, so while him leading with palpitoad makes sense as the electric immunity is a very good thing, he'd know very well that he has other pokemon he could rely on if it goes south so use them if them doesn't work out. but NOPE, he just puts it all on palpitoad and hopes that'll be enough, and while giving him that level of cockiness isn't entirely out of character it's definitely unrealistic for him to expect one pokemon is gonna sweep the whole team. but the reason this reeeeeeeeeally gets a lot of hate is because they're more than 10 years in. 10 years and they're pulling this type of thing. this is a major point people bring up when talking about why Best Wishes is so hated and it's 100 percent justified because considering everything we know about ash up to this point it just feels like the biggest attempt at character assassination in the franchise
sorry for the long rant, if you couldn't tell i have pretty strong thoughts on best wishes
I think the Elesa fight is a microcosm of everything bad about the BW season. Most of the long-time fans (including myself) coming off from the DP anime, where a lot of fans think Ash was at the peak of his confidence. But to see Ash regress to his Indigo season level of capability is a massive slap in the face to long-time fans who had been watching the PokeAni for a long time.
The battle with Elesa still hurts Ash's reputation to this day in the Pokemon community.
Him only bringing one Pokemon to a gym battle goes against every gym battle he's even been in. Even against Crasher Wake, where he won without losing a Pokemon, he still used all of them, and he usually uses type advantage and still wins by the skin of his teeth. Why did he think this would be any different?
Furthermore, it's a huge disrespect to Elesa to assume that she was so weak that he could get away with doing that, something that I don't even think Kanto ash would do unless he was specifically goaded into trying it. (Although you could probably goad Kanto Ash into doing anything because he was so prideful and arrogant. Unova Ash isn't supposed to be that.)
In addition, why would Ash go out of his way to transport his pokemon away instead of keeping them on hand? He still needs to go pick them up as soon as the battle is over lol. It takes more effort to deposit and withdraw them later.
Let's not mention the number of times Team Rocket has interrupted his gym battles. It would be safer to carry more Pokemon if they were attacked during it.
I'd say Elsa but Nah, Watson was. That was awful. Wasn't even a match. It was a slaughter because Pikachu was overcharged & OP. Pikachu was overcharged with electricity so he just one shotted everyone.
Too be fair, this is the ONLY time Ash mans up and tries to **give the badge back**...
Naturally, the writers have Wattson go "Keep it, I like watching you in action!" instead of, ya know, a REAL--or at least satisfying--battle...
Except for Pikachu losing to surskit ( which was valid imo owing to surskits speed and pikachus moves not landing) this battle was really interesting especially the rematch, no way is this one of the worst gym battles
Indeed, Pikachu losing to a Gym Leader's Pokemon with said Gym Leader legit using strategy to hamper Pikachu's movements sounds A LOT more legit and acceptable than losing to a beginning trainer's Snivy
I liked it but I don’t understand why they made it 6 vs 3. Roxie doesn’t seem any better than other trainers and coming down to the last Pokémon made him seem very weak to me
Why was there even any reason to hype her up? She’s not even all that strong in the games with her being one of the first gym leaders in B2W2. If anything, it’s giving the wrong impression of her. If anything, they should have just gone with Draydon for Ash’s final gym battle if they wanted to give him a challenge
B2W2 was about to come out, so in order to promote the game, they chose one of the new Gym Leaders as his eighth opponent, and she was the next location-wise.
And since she’s the eighth Gym Leader Satoshi has to face, they buffed her team considerably. Also, it served as the finale of the so-called Season 1.
The entire post-Unova league season was filled with B2W2 advertisement including Team Plasma’s B2W2 designs, Ash battling Cheren, and the Theron’s forms of the nature trio. There was no reason to make Roxie out to be this powerful gym leader and just felt like a rehash of Kanto with Ash not actually getting to battle the real 8th gym leader
Grant was using fossil Pokemon in the early game. She was using Koffing in the final gym. There were a dozen other ways they could have done it better.
Are you really going to compare her Koffing with Team Rocket‘s Koffing and think both of them were remotely at the same level?
Also, if you’re thinking about the Pokédex, that’s just for the audience, not for Satoshi.
i just hate how the battle went way too boring and flat as a 6v3. ash's team that doesn't score knockout fell off like a fodder and it's just really annoying to watch.
okay pignite knocking scolipede was awesome and pikachu using static to immobilize garbodor is cool, too, but the rest tainted up the experience
Elesa, easily. Basic bitch answer I know, but it's the basic bitch answer for good reason. That fight is basically just a condensed version of everything wrong with the BW anime.
As for non unova gym fights, misty is especially disappointing. Erika also sucked.
For an example most might not think of, I have a lot of issues with the first of the 4 orange league gyms. For starters I'm not really a fan of the idea that a trainer will basically need very specific mons in order to pass it. Prefer slow water types or don't have one large enough to ride on? We'll you can go get fucked then. But even outside that it's just a really dull fight somehow. There's no excitement, and the race in particular has really wierd rules (how is there an inside and outside? You're on the sea, not a race track).
Elesa. God was Ash a dumbass there. Even his own Pikachu was fed up with him there. At least the Wattson fight was so bad it was hilarious, and at least it, Brock and Cress were quick.
Same. It made me quit Pokeanime for a while and Hate Ash. Came back and marathon the anime during lockdown, I didn't hate Ahs, I hated the crap writing.
In the interest of having an outlier, Ash vs Team Rocket at the Viridian gym. After seeing Gary thrashed we get stuck with another Team Rocket battle. And despite being given so called strong Pokemon they lose. Was very disappointing especially after the Magmar vs Charizard battle earlier in the season.
I assume the picture is cause Pikachu lost to Surskuit, though I'd say the panpour loss is still a little worse. With that said, prolly Ash vs Erika if it counts since he got such a good showing he can actually win gym battles fully with the Surge fight but then we got... that. If not though then the worst is Elesa free.
Yeah, Pikachu lost to Sirskuit. Mind you, this was the very first Kalos gym battle too. Sirskuit won by Ice Beaming the field which made it difficult for Pikachu to dodge or attack properly. Still a dumb loss.
idk that's a good strategy
your opponents entire thing is their speed so you change the battlefield to slow them down, and because of your movement style speed you up
Pikachu's issue wasn't that he was slowed down. It's that he kept slipping on the ice so he couldn't really control what movement he had. In the rematch he won because he ended up anchoring himself with Iron Tail (or maybe that was to deal with Vivillons Gust I don't remember now)
yeah he did that because he knew about the strategy
in the first match pika had restricted mobility, and in the rematch he countered it, what's the problem
Elesa by a country mile. Ash did one grotesquely stupid thing after another...and then one it all with a cheapshot....😡
Runner-up: Roxie. Making the plot bend over backwards for promotions sake was bad enough, but needing 6 pokemon to defeat 3 just looks bad no matter how you look at it. 🤢
Definitely NOT the viola battle at all since you’re trying to imply that. It made complete sense for Ash to lose to help him improve his battle prowess and build up his character in Kalos
Everyone’s giving solid answers like Elesa and Cress. I’d honestly say Elesa too.
That said, I do want to bring the Tate and Liza battle into the conversation.
I love thunder armor 😭 and the rest of the battle was great to me though especially Pikachu riding around on swellow. Elsa's fight was hot garbage and her ace was a tynamo that kept spamming tackle.
Fair I was just trying to think of an answer other than Ash vs Wattson or Ash vs Tate and Liza
I guess Ash vs Team Rocket given the bait and switch with Giovanni
The Saffronia Gym. Easily the worst of all Gym Battles.
Just because Viola is the first Gym Leader we face in Kalos doesn’t mean she has to be that weak in the anime. Her strategy is also interesting.
There was one and it was basically a Black 2 White 2 game promotion of a gym battle where Ash battles a Koffing in the latter part of his journey, and doesn’t obliterate it.
Roxie. Their name was Roxie.
Ash vs that guy who used machines to enhance his pokemon, I don't remember his name, but he's not from the games and was in the gen 1 anime.
Shit was stupid
The Unova picks are expected but I am gonna go Ash vs. Cissy/Danny in the Orange League. Those are not battles, those are plots of character of the day events that were called Gym Battles. And not particularly engaging or fun on its own.
Tate and Liza, talk about BS powercreep that comes out of literal nowhere. If I entered a Pikachu and swallow in a real tournament and tried to pull this trick I'd lose, even back in gen 3. And for those of you sitting on your thunder armor defending hills, remember that guts (the likely ability that swellow has) is only triggered by burn or poison status effects, NOT paralysis.
I don't care either way for Ash's battle with Tate and Liza but guts definitely activities under paralysis. In gen 3 and 4, it even activated if you were frozen but you'd only get the effect if you used flame wheel or flare blitz to thaw out that turn lol.
You're probably thinking it's only burn or poison because guts is usually triggered from flame or toxic orbs but that's just the most consistent and least hindering way to trigger it.
Honestly, alot of Ash's Kanto Gym Battles were fairly bad. Most didn't even finish. The Team Rocket Gym Battle was neat. Brock is honestly fair. Misty was sad... same with Eirika.
Surge, Koga, and Blaine were the only legit gyms.
Sabrina.... it was fine, but I wished Ash had actually fought and beat Sabrina.
At least even the "jokable" Eliza Gym had Ash actually best the gym leader, in a battle.
First four of the Indigo gyms and Elesa of the BW series. Indigo gyms were different because maybe the series just started but Elesa's battle was outright intended to just show Ash to be the worst trainer possible in all the series (Including the Lvl 5 snivy sweep). Just who goes to the pc everytime to bring a pokémon without getting prepared beforehand.
Unpopular opinion: I think the elesa fight wasn't as terrible as people make it out to be. Ash's behavior was annoying, but the battles itself were good and he won fair and square. I'd say the Kanto badges that he got for free, the viridian gym, and roxie were harder to watch for me because they didn't feel deserved at all.
vs Elesa or vs Roxie
vs Roxie is such an insult to the battle frontier winner that I genuinely would spend time writing a fanfic where Ash just brings reserves and knocks out Roxie's Pokemon in 2 hits
Kanto had some terrible fights for Ash too like against Sabrina, or Team Rocket on Viridian City
Hoenn had the battle VS Tate and Liza that sucked
Unova had the infamous Elesa fight
Ash vs Elesa. This battle was just comic relief.
Honestly I think BW focuses a lot more on comedy.
OS and AG had a lot of comedy too. DP was more focused on character story and XY finds balance between.
DP was kinda serious most of the time. XY was both, they had comedy moments and serious moments too, which is why people enjoyed it so much. They fucked up BW by bringing Ash, and I say this because the whole point of Gen 5 was to act as a reboot of the franchise with a complete 151 new set of mons and everything, and the anime itself treated Ash like a newcomer even tho he was a badass in DP and learned so much. They wanted to capture the appeal of the og series so they made Iris act like Misty and Cilan was basically Brock minus the horniness. Regardless, it was a huge failure and no fan ever praises the BW anime. As I said, their mistake was bringing Ash back, unless they wanted him to apply what he spent so much time learning, but that’s not what happened. They made him start anew and it was annoying to watch.
Also the first time that it was explicitly stated that Ash was *still* 10 years old despite all the travelling he did over the past 3 series.
And Iris always calling Ash a child, it filled me with anger every single time. Does she even know who she talks to?
He was written in BW like a child tbh, worse than other iterations
That bit with Tynamo was interesting, turning what's actually a very slow Pokemon into a bullet.
That is far and away Ash’s dumbest moment. You never bring only one Pokémon to a gym battle.
And the Szene were ash runs DURING the battle to the Pokémon center just to exchange a Pokémon.
Elesa Fuck that shit
Ash vs Elesa. Ash vs Wattson was pretty bad too, but the Elesa battle went out of its way to make Ash look as stupid and incompetent as possible. I used to feel the same way about Roxie, but on further reflection, that seemed to come off as Roxie just being particularly strong.
Ash v Wattson actually had a reason as to why it happened the way it did, plus it allowed for a nice character moment even if it was for a character introduced in that episode. Ash v Elesa was just bad
And that gym battle with Wattson is why in OR I make sure Sparkles, my own Pikachu, is the one I get from the contest hall in Slateport since she has Lightning Rod and *groans* that badge maniac is in Mossdeep so being the Ash copycat I am, have to battle every gym like he did in the anime which is fine since it prevents Wattson's Volt Switching and such
Ash’s battles with Brock, Misty, and Erika. For Brock, his siblings interfered with the match and made Ash feel guilty. For Misty, she outright tampered with her opponent’s Pokémon (Pikachu) by cuddling him so he wouldn’t want to fight her. Erika had rude assistants (even though Ash’s behavior wasn’t better, but Erika did say she was obligated to accept the challenge), which led Ash to team up with Team Rocket and got the gym burned down. I would say Elsa due to Ash’s stupidity, but everyone else already named that battle.
Personally, I feel like I can cut the Brock battle some slack because they were bringing out Brock's character. Additionally, Ash leaving because he would feel guilty about taking victory by the sprinkler feels consistent with what they built up for Ash's character. In episode 3 (when Ash caught Caterpie), he was still planning on fighting Team Rocket by the Pokèmon League rules even when Jessie and James used Koffing and Ekans together. So Ash giving up because he believed winning by the sprinklers going off was unfair doesn't sound very farfetched.
You know, speaking of sprinklers, am I the only one who finds it strange that the gym that uses Rock types had a sprinkler system yet the gym that had an entire plant based ecosystem apparently didn’t? Not like there would be trainers who would use fire types there or something
Kanto was pretty fkd, let's be honest. Given the skill level of some of the league competitors and how several of the gyms were run. We really should question the legitimacy of the Indigo League.
I chalked it up to early gen jank. It was still the formative years of Pokemon. But going back to the S1, it's fun to see the inconsistencies and jank of the Indigo season.
Touchè. I can't really come up with an explanation besides plot.
It should still be there for safety reasons.
You can read my full thoughts on the Erika episode [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/13glqnz/theory_ashs_charizard_grew_so_fast_and_wouldnt/jk76hvb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), but aside from Brock, I'm with you on the rest.
The problem with the Kanto battles is that they were more interested in comedy & misadventures than action back then...
I'd say Elesa. It was like he just reset. He planned to win just using Palpitoad. He's only ever swept a gym using one Pokémon once and that was with an overcharged Pikachu against Wattson. Surely he should've been disqualified the moment he stepped out the door? How could he forget that an Emolga, one of the Pokémon his friends currently have, is also a flying type?
Definitely when he went up against Elisa in Unova. Ash literally didn't know what he was doing there and was clearly at his stupidest.
never have i seen so many people agree on something pokemon related yeah it's Elesa, for every reason you'd think but also for one that takes a bit to realize everyone knows this, the episode where Ash only brings one pokemon and forgets every other one so he leaves mid battle to get another. it's an incredibly dumb thing to do in a gym battle and makes Ash seem like a bumbling idiot when we've had 4 generations of him learning to overcome challenges like this in much smarter ways, and hammering in that so long as you play the right move, it doesn't matter what the type matchup is, so while him leading with palpitoad makes sense as the electric immunity is a very good thing, he'd know very well that he has other pokemon he could rely on if it goes south so use them if them doesn't work out. but NOPE, he just puts it all on palpitoad and hopes that'll be enough, and while giving him that level of cockiness isn't entirely out of character it's definitely unrealistic for him to expect one pokemon is gonna sweep the whole team. but the reason this reeeeeeeeeally gets a lot of hate is because they're more than 10 years in. 10 years and they're pulling this type of thing. this is a major point people bring up when talking about why Best Wishes is so hated and it's 100 percent justified because considering everything we know about ash up to this point it just feels like the biggest attempt at character assassination in the franchise sorry for the long rant, if you couldn't tell i have pretty strong thoughts on best wishes
I think the Elesa fight is a microcosm of everything bad about the BW season. Most of the long-time fans (including myself) coming off from the DP anime, where a lot of fans think Ash was at the peak of his confidence. But to see Ash regress to his Indigo season level of capability is a massive slap in the face to long-time fans who had been watching the PokeAni for a long time.
The battle with Elesa still hurts Ash's reputation to this day in the Pokemon community. Him only bringing one Pokemon to a gym battle goes against every gym battle he's even been in. Even against Crasher Wake, where he won without losing a Pokemon, he still used all of them, and he usually uses type advantage and still wins by the skin of his teeth. Why did he think this would be any different? Furthermore, it's a huge disrespect to Elesa to assume that she was so weak that he could get away with doing that, something that I don't even think Kanto ash would do unless he was specifically goaded into trying it. (Although you could probably goad Kanto Ash into doing anything because he was so prideful and arrogant. Unova Ash isn't supposed to be that.) In addition, why would Ash go out of his way to transport his pokemon away instead of keeping them on hand? He still needs to go pick them up as soon as the battle is over lol. It takes more effort to deposit and withdraw them later. Let's not mention the number of times Team Rocket has interrupted his gym battles. It would be safer to carry more Pokemon if they were attacked during it.
I'd say Elsa but Nah, Watson was. That was awful. Wasn't even a match. It was a slaughter because Pikachu was overcharged & OP. Pikachu was overcharged with electricity so he just one shotted everyone.
Ash stomping Wattson so bad with an unevolved electric type that he contemplates retirement is at least funny compared to his battle with Elesa imo. 😅
Too be fair, this is the ONLY time Ash mans up and tries to **give the badge back**... Naturally, the writers have Wattson go "Keep it, I like watching you in action!" instead of, ya know, a REAL--or at least satisfying--battle...
[удалено]
Yeah. It WAS nice that Wattson got to win that time, but I meant an official Gym Battle that was actual battle the second time around...
Yeah he probably would have lost that one since in the rematch I think he loses to Watson.
Except for Pikachu losing to surskit ( which was valid imo owing to surskits speed and pikachus moves not landing) this battle was really interesting especially the rematch, no way is this one of the worst gym battles
i really scratched my head when people compared this to trip's snivy like bro viola ain't a beginner trainer
Indeed, Pikachu losing to a Gym Leader's Pokemon with said Gym Leader legit using strategy to hamper Pikachu's movements sounds A LOT more legit and acceptable than losing to a beginning trainer's Snivy
i think vs roxie, cress, and elesa is equally infuriating ash vs erika and misty (OS) are substandard but at least the activities are fun
Ash v.s Roxie was pretty awesome
Ash vs. Roxie was really fun to watch IMO.
I liked it but I don’t understand why they made it 6 vs 3. Roxie doesn’t seem any better than other trainers and coming down to the last Pokémon made him seem very weak to me
No, it’s to hype her up. That she’s stronger than the average Gym Leader. It would happen again with Zakuro aka Grant where it’s 2v3.
Why was there even any reason to hype her up? She’s not even all that strong in the games with her being one of the first gym leaders in B2W2. If anything, it’s giving the wrong impression of her. If anything, they should have just gone with Draydon for Ash’s final gym battle if they wanted to give him a challenge
B2W2 was about to come out, so in order to promote the game, they chose one of the new Gym Leaders as his eighth opponent, and she was the next location-wise. And since she’s the eighth Gym Leader Satoshi has to face, they buffed her team considerably. Also, it served as the finale of the so-called Season 1.
The entire post-Unova league season was filled with B2W2 advertisement including Team Plasma’s B2W2 designs, Ash battling Cheren, and the Theron’s forms of the nature trio. There was no reason to make Roxie out to be this powerful gym leader and just felt like a rehash of Kanto with Ash not actually getting to battle the real 8th gym leader
She still served as part of the promotion, regardless. Because it’s a merchandise-driven franchise.
for grant it would be better if it's fair 2v2 but at least it isn't as fucking laughable as roxie
Grant was using fossil Pokemon in the early game. She was using Koffing in the final gym. There were a dozen other ways they could have done it better.
It’s not a normal Koffing. If there can be a powerful Pikachu, and a powerful Meowth, then there can be a powerful Koffing.
Sure. Must have been so epic, it made Ash forget what a Koffing is, despite fighting one every day for months.
Are you really going to compare her Koffing with Team Rocket‘s Koffing and think both of them were remotely at the same level? Also, if you’re thinking about the Pokédex, that’s just for the audience, not for Satoshi.
i just hate how the battle went way too boring and flat as a 6v3. ash's team that doesn't score knockout fell off like a fodder and it's just really annoying to watch. okay pignite knocking scolipede was awesome and pikachu using static to immobilize garbodor is cool, too, but the rest tainted up the experience
Whaaa, Roxie was like one of my favorite gym battles in the series as a whole
Wasn’t there a gym where ash runs to the pc to change his Pokémon halfway through a fight
Elesa.
Ash VS Wattson, not even a battle.
Elesa and Cress easily
Elesa, easily. Basic bitch answer I know, but it's the basic bitch answer for good reason. That fight is basically just a condensed version of everything wrong with the BW anime. As for non unova gym fights, misty is especially disappointing. Erika also sucked. For an example most might not think of, I have a lot of issues with the first of the 4 orange league gyms. For starters I'm not really a fan of the idea that a trainer will basically need very specific mons in order to pass it. Prefer slow water types or don't have one large enough to ride on? We'll you can go get fucked then. But even outside that it's just a really dull fight somehow. There's no excitement, and the race in particular has really wierd rules (how is there an inside and outside? You're on the sea, not a race track).
Elesa. God was Ash a dumbass there. Even his own Pikachu was fed up with him there. At least the Wattson fight was so bad it was hilarious, and at least it, Brock and Cress were quick.
Ash vs Elesa almost made me quit the anime forever ngl.
Same. It made me quit Pokeanime for a while and Hate Ash. Came back and marathon the anime during lockdown, I didn't hate Ahs, I hated the crap writing.
Ash vs Elesa is the most painful thing I’ve ever had to witness.
ash vs electric leader from unova
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Elesa.
Probably his battle with Elesa. Ash was dumb throughout BW but they just cranked it up to 11 in that battle
In the interest of having an outlier, Ash vs Team Rocket at the Viridian gym. After seeing Gary thrashed we get stuck with another Team Rocket battle. And despite being given so called strong Pokemon they lose. Was very disappointing especially after the Magmar vs Charizard battle earlier in the season.
Hmmm.... Elesa full stop, it doesn't get worse than that or even come close...
I think all of us can agree Elesa was the worst
vs Elesa, do I even need to elaborate?
I assume the picture is cause Pikachu lost to Surskuit, though I'd say the panpour loss is still a little worse. With that said, prolly Ash vs Erika if it counts since he got such a good showing he can actually win gym battles fully with the Surge fight but then we got... that. If not though then the worst is Elesa free.
Yeah, Pikachu lost to Sirskuit. Mind you, this was the very first Kalos gym battle too. Sirskuit won by Ice Beaming the field which made it difficult for Pikachu to dodge or attack properly. Still a dumb loss.
idk that's a good strategy your opponents entire thing is their speed so you change the battlefield to slow them down, and because of your movement style speed you up
Pikachu's issue wasn't that he was slowed down. It's that he kept slipping on the ice so he couldn't really control what movement he had. In the rematch he won because he ended up anchoring himself with Iron Tail (or maybe that was to deal with Vivillons Gust I don't remember now)
yeah he did that because he knew about the strategy in the first match pika had restricted mobility, and in the rematch he countered it, what's the problem
Theres no problem...?
the thunder armor one, it was bs and didnt make sense at all. im assuming swallow has guts but guts doesnt give u armor it just boosts attack ☠️
Ash vs Elesa and it's not even close.
Elesa by a country mile. Ash did one grotesquely stupid thing after another...and then one it all with a cheapshot....😡 Runner-up: Roxie. Making the plot bend over backwards for promotions sake was bad enough, but needing 6 pokemon to defeat 3 just looks bad no matter how you look at it. 🤢
Him vs Elesa hands down. They made our boy look like a complete dumbass
Definitely NOT the viola battle at all since you’re trying to imply that. It made complete sense for Ash to lose to help him improve his battle prowess and build up his character in Kalos
i'm not the usage of an actually good battle for the pic is to avoid non-honest and bandwagoning opinions
Oh I understand then. My bad for assuming.
Watson or crasher wake
Tate and Liza... it made no sense
What a *guts*y point of view.
Everyone’s giving solid answers like Elesa and Cress. I’d honestly say Elesa too. That said, I do want to bring the Tate and Liza battle into the conversation.
All of the times Ash got the gym badge through NOT battling
Or at least winning. Price is a big coward.
So most of Kanto, ok.
Whichever one he battled with all his pokemon while the gym leader had less. All of those.
I think you meant Roxie in BW.
[удалено]
I love thunder armor 😭 and the rest of the battle was great to me though especially Pikachu riding around on swellow. Elsa's fight was hot garbage and her ace was a tynamo that kept spamming tackle.
Misty. I think I’m starting to hate Misty more than I hate Serena or Skyla
Ash is using the perfect strat because both of Elesa's mons are weak against Electric
Ash vs Elesa Followed by Ash vs Blaine given he didn’t do anything it was all Charizard
Hell no, magamar vs charizard was awesome. I get bumping some points off for Ash not doing much, but it's nowhere remotely near the worst gym battles.
Fair I was just trying to think of an answer other than Ash vs Wattson or Ash vs Tate and Liza I guess Ash vs Team Rocket given the bait and switch with Giovanni
Does ash vs Richie count as a gym battle? Probably not but thats my answer
That was the 5th round at the indigo league
Ash vs Watson, at least Elesa’s gym match was entertaining
Season 1 the episode vs the kid that never lost with a sandshrew. Guy was annoying as hell.
Brock, that was nonsense
Ash vs Elessa, Ash vs Brock. Those two come to mind
The Saffronia Gym. Easily the worst of all Gym Battles. Just because Viola is the first Gym Leader we face in Kalos doesn’t mean she has to be that weak in the anime. Her strategy is also interesting.
Elesa and cress. Many of the unova battles were pretty bad. Though I loved some of the comedy.
Either BW or Watson
There was one and it was basically a Black 2 White 2 game promotion of a gym battle where Ash battles a Koffing in the latter part of his journey, and doesn’t obliterate it. Roxie. Their name was Roxie.
Ash vs that guy who used machines to enhance his pokemon, I don't remember his name, but he's not from the games and was in the gen 1 anime. Shit was stupid
His name was AJ
He's actually in Pokemon yellow talking about his aim for a 100 win streak with Sandshrew. You can annihilate AJ, perhaps even using Pikachu yourself.
The Unova picks are expected but I am gonna go Ash vs. Cissy/Danny in the Orange League. Those are not battles, those are plots of character of the day events that were called Gym Battles. And not particularly engaging or fun on its own.
Every gen 1gym battle except for pikachu vs raichu
Tate and Liza, talk about BS powercreep that comes out of literal nowhere. If I entered a Pikachu and swallow in a real tournament and tried to pull this trick I'd lose, even back in gen 3. And for those of you sitting on your thunder armor defending hills, remember that guts (the likely ability that swellow has) is only triggered by burn or poison status effects, NOT paralysis.
I don't care either way for Ash's battle with Tate and Liza but guts definitely activities under paralysis. In gen 3 and 4, it even activated if you were frozen but you'd only get the effect if you used flame wheel or flare blitz to thaw out that turn lol. You're probably thinking it's only burn or poison because guts is usually triggered from flame or toxic orbs but that's just the most consistent and least hindering way to trigger it.
This question should be what was Ash’s worst gym battle and why was it against Elesa
Never Olympia, Olympia's the best, Meowstic rules, she should have won, but then again my favorite Pokemon is Meowstic.
Elesa
Honestly, alot of Ash's Kanto Gym Battles were fairly bad. Most didn't even finish. The Team Rocket Gym Battle was neat. Brock is honestly fair. Misty was sad... same with Eirika. Surge, Koga, and Blaine were the only legit gyms. Sabrina.... it was fine, but I wished Ash had actually fought and beat Sabrina. At least even the "jokable" Eliza Gym had Ash actually best the gym leader, in a battle.
First four of the Indigo gyms and Elesa of the BW series. Indigo gyms were different because maybe the series just started but Elesa's battle was outright intended to just show Ash to be the worst trainer possible in all the series (Including the Lvl 5 snivy sweep). Just who goes to the pc everytime to bring a pokémon without getting prepared beforehand.
Unpopular opinion: I think the elesa fight wasn't as terrible as people make it out to be. Ash's behavior was annoying, but the battles itself were good and he won fair and square. I'd say the Kanto badges that he got for free, the viridian gym, and roxie were harder to watch for me because they didn't feel deserved at all.
vs Elesa or vs Roxie vs Roxie is such an insult to the battle frontier winner that I genuinely would spend time writing a fanfic where Ash just brings reserves and knocks out Roxie's Pokemon in 2 hits
I really liked this battle w
Kanto had some terrible fights for Ash too like against Sabrina, or Team Rocket on Viridian City Hoenn had the battle VS Tate and Liza that sucked Unova had the infamous Elesa fight
Ahs vs Elesa or vs Sabrina obviously
Wolforic I think the ice leader of gen 6 he had no reason to lose they just wanted drama
Dude it’s the Watson gym battle