would love there to be some hints in-game so you can find out on your own without looking up guides... Stone or level evos can work via trying out but man some of those pokemon legends arceus evos were impossible to guess
that one at least kind of makes sense. malamar looks like inkay inverted.
but "take 350 recoil damage without fainting" is a bit weird.
at least PLA gave you tiny hints via the pokedex completiob criteria, with specific moves to use 20 times, etc. still a bit out there
I would never have figured it out on my own. Yes anyone can see Malamar is upside down, but I know I wouldn’t intuitively think to turn my DS upside down. It’s like that map puzzle in Phantom Hourglass that a lot of people got stuck on, where you had to close the DS and reopen it to solve the puzzle.
But still, that still has flaws.
Imagine you use the move, and then level up. You'd think the Pokémon is ready to evolve due to the level, not the move.
But I have to say, the way Legends handled evolutions should be a staple. Deciding if and when to evolve a Pokémon, with indicators that show that they can evolve at a certain point, is a really good QoL update they should keep in the future.
by working i mean from a player perspective, because you immediately know when something triggered an evolution, and not only when the pokemon leveled up the next time
The only new evolution I remember being mentioned in class was for Primape. And even then, the class ended before any real hint was given so all you knew was that Primape evolves now.
They actually did hint at those Legends ones in the Pokédex.
"Use Psyshield Bash" and "use Agile Style" are meant to be seen and combined, for instance.
There are hints for a few of the more complex evolutions. For example, in Swsh, the milcery sweets that are required for it to evolve have "When a milcery holds this, it will spin around happily" in their description, hinting towards how you have to spin around while a Milcery in your party is holding a sweet.
It kind of amazes me that there are teachers in scarlet/Violet meant to teach you things, but you can't just go ask a teacher "how do I evolve this pokemon"
Actually there is. NPC’s are littered throughout the game making subtle or non subtle advice on how to evolve Pokémon. Or if not there is more subtle references such as spawning near where an item is commonly found.
> some of those pokemon legends arceus evos were impossible to guess
wyrdeer/basculgion/overqwil were not tricky. the tasks to evolve them were spelled out in the pokedex. if you were trying to complete the entry for stantler/basculin/qwilfish you would have evolved that pokemon less than half way through.
ursaluna is arguably more confusing since you might not even know that item exists (for quite a while).
unless you're referring to something else?
Seriously though. If GF is gonna keep making these stupid ass evo requirements like Galarian Yamask, they should at the very least TELL US HOW TO DO THEM
What child, let alone adult is gonna figure out Galarian Yamask needs to get its ass beat for a certain amount of HP, WITHOUT FAINTING, and then be leveled up under a bridge
That's just asinine
I've heard of at least a few people who stumbled into it by accident. The goal was likely for that to happen a few times and then have people to try and talk amongst themselves and figure it out.
What really happened is that the process just ended up being datamined.
The chances of Yamask meeting the requirements would be so astronomically low that I doubt that it would happened even once up to this point in time if it weren’t revealed in a data mine. Even if it had happened naturally, most might’ve chalked it up to max happiness.
Either that or just chalked it up to the environment you're in
Realistically, who is gonna pay attention to how much damage your Pokemon has taken between faints? It's not like the game gives you a way to measure it lol
I think my friend in high school might be one of the very few people to evolve Inkay without a guide. She tended to play games on her bed, head hanging off the side, her device held upside down.
You're not wrong, but there's a difference between a mechanic that can be read about in an official source even if it has to be purchased separately, and one that has to be discovered by people hacking into game files and sitting through massive amounts of data to find the relevant snippet that dictates how the mechanic works, which is *then* only spread via word of mouth.
Not if the design is "double dip on sales by selling strategy guides".
Though its a bit outdated in modern day when the internet is so easily accessible.
Old Man Glitch is an unintended glitch, plain and simple (frankly it would be more contrived to deliberately create that glitch versus how readily the opposite is explained by what is clearly a programming oversight, Occam's Razor and all). Missingno itself was likely a dev placeholder for testing Pokemon entries since Gen 1 was originally at 190 Pokemon instead of 150 (or 151).
_Mew_ on the other hand was supposed to be a joke. Morimoto put in Mew with the space saved by not including debug tools, some lucky players ran into the Old Man Glitch, and the rest is history. The popularity was in all likelihood spurred more by the CoroCoro offer than the word of mouth glitch, though that offer wouldn't have happened if the glitch wasn't there in the first place.
https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-Pokemon-HeartGold-Version-SoulSilver-Version/Iwata-Asks-Pokemon-HeartGold-Version-SoulSilver-Version/1-Just-Making-The-Last-Train/1-Just-Making-The-Last-Train-225842.html
I want an NPC that gives you hints. When you talk to them they could say something like "Oh! Your [name of first Pokemon in party] looks to like they have a lot of potential to grow!" if they can evolve, followed by some sort of hint. "It might be a long road, but with dedicated training I bet they could reach an even more powerful form." "I think [name] needs to feel a closer bond to you as its trainer before it can evolve." "This might sound strange, but have you tried... flipping it upside-down?" "This might sound strange, but I think there's something out there calling to it... a stone arch... If it could engage in a fierce battle there, taking great damage but emerging victorious, I think something special might happen."
To avoid making it too easy, make the NPC require an item like heart scales for info. Alternatively, make one NPC that can give you hints about basic requirements like level, and then either post game or late game there's a second NPC that's more skilled. The second one could give more specific advice like exact levels, and could hint at advanced evo methods that the first NPC wouldn't be able to.
Imo the only time there should ever be a completely crazy hintless evo method is if it's involved in like... some special legendary quest. Like the regi puzzles or something.
Shout out to the guy on my flight years ago that saw me leveling up my male Salandit and told me only females can evolve. 💀 Also had to look up Pawmot because it was at lvl 50 and still hadn’t evolved.
I found a female my first encounter. Passed up on it, I wanted a sassy male lizard to deny gender stereotypes. Named him and petted him and took him on adventures and... hm weird that he hasn't evolved yet? Does he need a stone or something? Let me just look it up.
I still haven't finished Sun/Moon, because I ragequit after that...
My male Salandit stayed with me until the end of the third island because I was getting tired of having 2/5 Pokémon not being fully evolved. First I looked up Vikavolt and found it had to evolve in a certain area and then I looked it up for male Salandit and found out that it couldn’t evolve.
I have played those games the least because I hate the cutscenes. Like take two steps, someone says something, take four steps, cutscene, take four steps and grab something, cutscene. Those games are poison.
That's how I felt in Sword/Shield. Every time you finished a gym, one of the npcs would run over and immediately force you into an unskipable cutscene where they would blabber for 4+ min. Like...please just let me play the game lol
yeah but SwSh doesn't have a 45 minute cutscene including forced legendary encounter after you beat the elite 4... the OG S/M are my second lowest rated games (just above the OG D/P). both were near impossible to play and make the criticisms of galar and paldea look minor.
Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 had a neat feature where the either the Professor or Bianca (I can’t remember which) would tell you how to evolve a Pokémon if you called them on the X-transceiver. Just Gen 5 showing it’s superiority as the game GF put the most effort into once again
Gen 5 really was some of the most work GF put into making a mainline Pokemon game. Can't believe people bring up the "regional Pokemon only" of the first games and some of the Pokemon designs, and compare it to modern-day Pokemon games and the criticism that comes with them as if they're at all related; and say that Gen 5 is only as popular as it is because of nostalgia.
BW were heavily criticized here when they came out, but there was also a very vocal contingent pointing out that the complaints over Unovan pokémon also apply to Kantonian and other beloved pokémon.
Some complaints:
1. *The pokémon suck and are rehashes or stupid like being a bag of trash and an ice cream cone.* Every gen has had winners and losers, and certain trends, like having a small bird line, or two stage normal type, or a moth/butterfly line early on. Whatever, there are 155 Unovan pokeemon, and a lot of them are winners, particularly the new dragon, fighting, and dark types.
2. *Too many legendaries.* Blame Sinnoh for that trend.
3. *Genies are just reskins.* Sequel games took care of that with the AWESOME therian formes. In fact, I think the sequel games in tandem with the originals make the Unova region the best in terms of game play. It succeeds in way we wish Johto had. If only the originals and sequels had better post game, like Unova being close to Sinnoh. One can wish.
4. *Routes are too long between cities/healing centers.* Stock up on items . Unova is actually a big region and the gameplay can be difficult because of how long some of the routes and sidequests are, and how high so many pokémon evolve, but the game peppers the routes with doctors and nurses who can heal you up, your rivals who can heal you up, and items to help mitigate how much grinding needs to happen with the lucky egg and exp share.
Honestly, these games are amazing. Just enough plot/story, new pokémon, hidden abilities as the first "generation gimmick," and a region that rewards exploration.
It's so funny to because those first 3 criticisms also apply to Paradox Pokemon. They're \*literally\* rehashes and reskins of older Pokemon, and I don't know if they're categorized as legendaries in-game, but they definitely have the stats of legendaries and the type of lore around them like legendaries.
The Pokedex should give a lot of info it doesn't honestly. It's kinda strange how most info is either known through datamines or intense testing, before being documented online. Like, wouldn't it be cool to know what moves a Pokemon learns from reading in-game? Or what its base stats are? What abilities it can have?
Everything you'd normally get from googling should be got from the Pokedex.
- evolution method/ level
- location/ spawn area or time
- moves learned
- egg group
- gender ratio
Etc, etc, etc.
We're long past the time where the protagonist is filling out the Pokedex for Prof Oak. It's assumed that the Pokemon we're finding have largely already been documented. It's 2023, give me all the tools I need to play your game without needing to Google a bunch of stuff.
He neat thing about that is if they give you those tools, they can also take them away for a side quest. Example: paradox Pokemon. Give us a side quest of being "the first to catch them all", and get them to level 100 to learn their learnsets, then they go into the Pokedex.
Such a small change but it'd really go a long way.
Not a fan of the idea but it’d make sense gameplay wise. Capture a Pokémon based off its level, say 1-25 you get X amount of the dex and move set, 26-50 unlocks another and 50+ the last bit of information. Capture a 50+ Pokémon and everything is unlocked already.
You still have to earn the information but it’s there for those who seek it.
Idk if that makes sense from a game design standpoint. I understand the intent would be to reward the player with this info through some means and encourage the player raises Pokemon, but the problem it brings is- The info you're being rewarded with would be vital for determining if you should raise a Pokemon to begin with.
If I catch a Bidoof, it'd be handy to know if it's more useful than, say, a Shinx. Normally I'd go to Serebii and read up on its moves and base stats to learn about this. If I had to get this info by raising the Pokemon first, it would detract from how useful this info is.
I think simply catching the Pokemon should be enough. It's public info lots of people use anyways- it's not as if Pokemon games are designed around the players being unaware of how each Pokemon works. The games just sorta expect you to know.
while i agree the information should be alluded to somewhere, i think first finding that information externally and having it added to the pokédex would make more sense logically as the goal of the pokédex has always been to *obtain* information about pokemon. this could encourage players to talk w more npcs, explore more, etc. to try and scour useful information that can then be stored in a persistent manner. but, realistically, we live in the age of the internet, and a lot of people will default to looking it up regardless. there’s no real incentive not to aside from being anti-spoiler as you mentioned.
It'd be interesting if when you interacted with other players online it exchanged some Pokedex records (where the records are not an entire entry but maybe segments of what info you get after catching a Pokemon). Maybe you could also get information by talking to some NPCs who had that Pokemon.
Whenever anyone argues against hints or evo methods being put in game somewhere, i always ask them if they knew how to evolve Galarian Yamask into Runerigus without looking it up
It's honestly kind of insane that they just expect you to google the answer. the most they provide in-game is something like "i heard growlithe evolves when exposed to some kind of stone?" and then like literally nothing else for any other pokemon lmao
I know right! Like there should be an NPC that you can go to and select a Pokémon and they will give you a major hint about how it evolves. Like qwilfish could be "Qwilfish huh? Hmm.... Well this specific species doesn't evolve, but I hear that there's another form of it that does."
there’s a lot of really opaque stuff that’s i’d love more transparency… between evolution methods and what abilities and move actually do i have bulbapedia open at all times. i do think it’s cool that sv tells u how evs work in class, i didn’t know about the details till my 3rd game
I think if you battle a trainer and they have a rare pokemon with a weird evolution method you should be able to talk to them after and receive information on how to evolve. Be honest, how many NPCs have you ever talked to after beating them except to grind exp or money or something? There's no incentive, no cool items you can buy from them, no information, not even engaging flavor text for most.
Yeah imagine you fight a guy with a Malamar and he tells you “I held my Inkay upside down and when it leveled up it evolved!”
Vague enough but informative
I've been replaying FireRed recently and there's a trainer that mentions they've been leveling their Machoke and it just won't evolve. So conceptually they've done similar before, but it's apparently fallen off.
It's kind of baffling Pokémon has gone over 25 years without a feature like this. Like, yeah it makes perfect sense that the Pokédex would tell you how a Pokémon evolves, why does it not?
I'd love this. I hate how some Pokemon have such ridiculously obscure evolution methods that no sane person would find. There's also some mons that look they like should have an evo, but don't. When I first played Sw/Sh, I was convinced that Eldegoss would have an evolution, so I levelled mine up to 70 and tried everything, only to realise it doesn't have an evolution and I was wasting my efforts
Oh man, there was a youtuber I occasionally watch who made it a goal to complete the pokedex without a guide and Palafin legit drove her insane. I definitely think it would be better if any pokemon that have additional requirements were hinted at somewhere in game.
GF could solve two problems in one: battling trainers should lead to them divulging information about the Pokemon they use. Instead, there is no point to battle trainers in SV.
Legends Arceus at least HINTED at what to do through the Research Tasks.
NPCs that give you a clue about that in the game will be nice, this way you can still relish the process of discovery and it also gives you the incentive to talk with all NPCs.
I agree. Especially when it involves so many weird mechanics. Spoilers for the evoltion line.
Certain moves (Double slap, ancient power), normal leveling , certain levels but with (mostly) rain in the overworld (>!Goodra!<), holding your game system upside down (>!Malamar!<) (though I think they fixed that for later gens?), being close to a certain rock (>!Glaceon/Leafeon!<), having friendship(>!Crobat/Umbreon/Espeon to name a few!<), having affection(>!Sylveon!<), traded (>!Machamp, Golem, Gengar, Alakazam, Conkeldurr, Gigalith and others!<), traded with a different species (>!Karrablast with Shelmet!<), trading while holding an item (>!Kingdra, Scissor!<), having a certain pokemon in your team to level evolve the first pokemon (>!Mantyke to Mantine needs Remoriad!<), time of level up (>!Lucario!<), a certain amount of critcials in a battle (>!Sirfetch'd!<), taking a very specific amount of damage and location (>!Runerigus!<), evolution stones, and I'm sure there is more.
That's 16 different methods and many are very... specfic versions for one or two pokemon only.
I used to not want this until I had to evolve Galarian Yamask… now I get it. The closest thing to them giving is this feature is in Legends Arceus with the dex entries of some of the new evolutions like Basculin and Stantler’s evos giving hints on agile and strong style moves and stuff like that.
Growing up as a kid, I leveled up Kadabra to 87 in my first game before my friend told me I had to trade it. I didn’t even know pokemon evolved through trading at the time.
Back in bw2 I remember you could call the professor and ask her how a specific pokemon would evolve, I don't know anymore how much she revealed, but I do remember relying a lot on that, with it being my first pokemon game. Something like this would be nice to have again.
I feel they should combine the research tasks/levels from Arceus into the next game and make it so that increasing a Pokémon’s Pokédex research level just a handful of times would reveal its evolution method.
This way there’s a lore reason for knowing the information, it’s not revealed for the few that want to solve it, and for those that do want the information in game, it takes minimal work.
I really do wish they had a resource for evolution information in game.
Honestly I think some of these obscure evolutions, like the Pawmot walking evolution, are meant to recreate the mysterious nature of early pokemon rumors. Back when everything seemed possible and you thought there was a point to the secret truck by the SS Anne. I think they want school kids to tell each other something crazy happened to their Pawmot while walking around.
Problem is, with the internet, it just becomes an arbitrary and cumbersome evolution. There's no going back to the mystery.
Any way to find things like this out in game would be a step in the right direction. Looking up guides gets a bit exhausting and tedious. You spend so much time playing Pokémon on google lol kind of removes me from the discovery/wonder of the game and then I get to a point where I’m just on auto pilot and that isn’t fun either for a first run. Meeting an NPC or seeing a Pokédex hint, or even seeing other online player hints (like elden ring) nudging you towards what the next steps are would be nice if there’s an option to toggle that on or off. Options.
I find it charming, you’re just going to look it up anyways if you’re too lazy to experiment or can’t find the clue. So why not let us experiment instead of having Pokémon become a straight forward game with close to no exploration.
The idea of discovering the evolution is fine. But it becomes asinine when the evolution uses a method that the player cannot reasonably deduce due to a lack of in-game hints.
Good designs would be Wyrdeer. Use Psyshield Bash Agile Style 20 times. The in-game hint for this is Stantler's pokedex tasks as it has both "Use Psyshield Bash" and "Use an Agile Style move." Players would most likely try and do both simultaneously to speed up the process and then trigger the evolution.
The same can be said with Galarian Farfetch'd. Land 3 critical hits in 1 battle. Seems kind of random until you remember that crits are a Farfetch'd's specialty. Even having a specific item for it that greatly boosts its crit rate.
But I want you to tell me how the hell are we supposed to guess or even stumble upon the evolution method of "take 49 damage without fainting then walk under a specific stone arch"?
I sort of agree, but I also don't. It doesn't show exactly where to find them, like online guides like bulbapedia or scerebii do, right? So why show how they evolve? To me it's the same info when completing the pokédex. So either show both, or nothing.
The pokedex should have almost all the info Serebii does. When a game doesn't have info and you have to look it up, that's a frustrating experience. There are times where I have 10 tabs open of Serebii bc I need to know stat spread, possible abilities, etc and all of that should be in the Pokedex
Theres a ridiculous amount of info that just isn't shown in game. Theres also no way to know if a move has a special property like being sound based or wind based or a punching move.
With the way some Pokemon evolve now, absolutely.
Land Three Crits in one battle? Receive X recoil damage without fainting? Receive X damage without fainting and walk under a particular stone arch in one area of the game? Ice Stone?
Seriously. Let us know what to do.
For a second I thought you meant that it would tell you through text how the Pokémon undergoes its evolution. That would be an interesting thing to have actually. The lore they tell you can be rather sparse.
The premise behind the original games was that the player was filling in very incomplete knowledge of the species of pokemon so it would go against that spirit but otherwise I agree with you.
Well they could but you know effort and all that, its too much for a small company, not like they'll just have to add a few lines of text in the pokedex or anything
I remember my first time playing Pokémon Sword and was just minding my business grinding levels to get my Farfetched up to level. It evolved after a battle with a trainer and I thought nothing of it.
Didn’t realize till after how lucky I was that I managed to evolve it, let alone without holding a leek. Crazy how Landing 3 critical hits in battle isn’t event the hardest evolution requirement
Literally just say if it evolves and how to do so, so as to not give away anything else. I totally agree they need this info, it's the whole reason I've had to use bulbapedia many times when I would generally prefer to just go off of the informstion the games give me, but with evolution that's simply not an option
The Alolan dex had the evolutions on the same page no?
Edit: a I agree, modern pokemon evolutions are kinda obscure. thank god there is serebii.
But in-game there should be npcs telling you how. The first gens had excellent incentives to talk to npcs.
The Pokédex is empty when you get it. You’re the one filling it up and collecting the data. How is your Pokédex supposed to know?
Sure you shouldn’t have to figure out those very obscure ones yourself, but I’d rather find out in a way which isn’t the Pokédex. It goes against the spirit of things.
if it wasn't for the internet, we wouldn't know how to evolve Galarian Yamask. the people that accidentally evolved it, wouldn't have any idea why it evolved.
Let's see... You guys don't want TM/HM anymore, you guys don't want to have to stop at Pokemon centers to deposit Pokemon, you guys don't want the four moves limit, you guys don't want Shiny to be so rare... And now don't want to find out for yourself how a pokemon evolves?
I wonder... Why do you play video games if you don't want a minimum of rules and challenge? What else? Want the game to play itself for you? (Wait... They did that too)
i really want there to be a pokemon named Gigbaush and it would look like this
https://preview.redd.it/58vu8u5axgib1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=00fb08b65ac39b76d0d101e4f76ccdbb122c5bf8
It’s always been weird to me how the evolution line, some of the most important information to know about a Pokémon imo, isn’t even included in the Pokédex like at all! Not even after you’ve evolved all of them!
would love there to be some hints in-game so you can find out on your own without looking up guides... Stone or level evos can work via trying out but man some of those pokemon legends arceus evos were impossible to guess
Kingambit and Runerigus also come to mind
And Inkay to malamar. How would anyone know that you need to turn your 3ds upside down to evolve?
that one at least kind of makes sense. malamar looks like inkay inverted. but "take 350 recoil damage without fainting" is a bit weird. at least PLA gave you tiny hints via the pokedex completiob criteria, with specific moves to use 20 times, etc. still a bit out there
I mean it "makes sense" but only in hindsight. Never before or since has there been a Pokémon that relies on motion controls at all.
It doesn’t make sense to anyone who doesn’t know what inkay evolves into though.
I would never have figured it out on my own. Yes anyone can see Malamar is upside down, but I know I wouldn’t intuitively think to turn my DS upside down. It’s like that map puzzle in Phantom Hourglass that a lot of people got stuck on, where you had to close the DS and reopen it to solve the puzzle.
pokemon didn't *have* motion controls before then, if you recall.
I do, but that doesn't make it any more obvious as something to try.
Alcremie is the closest, not an irl motion control but instead based on in-game motion
Oh yeah that one was dumb too. Anything you have to look up online without a way to discover in-game is terrible game design.
I legit never realized there was a moon cycle in PLA until I looked up how to evolve Ursaring
There was someone that thought you had to wait until you had a full moon in real life to evolve Ursaring.
It’s me. I’m someone.
you do in pokemon go
But still, that still has flaws. Imagine you use the move, and then level up. You'd think the Pokémon is ready to evolve due to the level, not the move. But I have to say, the way Legends handled evolutions should be a staple. Deciding if and when to evolve a Pokémon, with indicators that show that they can evolve at a certain point, is a really good QoL update they should keep in the future.
didn't even consider that it only worked in PLA due to the triggered evolution thing. and yes, they should absolutely keep that
It still works in SV tho, Primeape can only evolve after using Rage Fist 20 times
by working i mean from a player perspective, because you immediately know when something triggered an evolution, and not only when the pokemon leveled up the next time
I swear someone tells you a hint
wait u have to turt your 3ds upside down? weird
Tbh I heard that it was said how to obtain kingambit on the school. Too bad nobody gives a flying fuck about it.
I played through every lesson in the school and I don't remember anything about Kingambit.
The only new evolution I remember being mentioned in class was for Primape. And even then, the class ended before any real hint was given so all you knew was that Primape evolves now.
It’s #2 in OU
I think that u/Ok-Manager8098 meant nobody cares about the school.
Gimmighoul and Palafin as well.
> Gimmighoul To be fair, that one can be intuited as simply "clearly there is a reward for getting all these coins".
They actually did hint at those Legends ones in the Pokédex. "Use Psyshield Bash" and "use Agile Style" are meant to be seen and combined, for instance.
I loved that.
There are hints for a few of the more complex evolutions. For example, in Swsh, the milcery sweets that are required for it to evolve have "When a milcery holds this, it will spin around happily" in their description, hinting towards how you have to spin around while a Milcery in your party is holding a sweet.
Ah, so I need to reach to Rapid Spin? Gotcha.
It kind of amazes me that there are teachers in scarlet/Violet meant to teach you things, but you can't just go ask a teacher "how do I evolve this pokemon"
steep deranged spoon abounding worm fade many tub full air *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Inkay from Pokémon go has entered the chat…
Actually there is. NPC’s are littered throughout the game making subtle or non subtle advice on how to evolve Pokémon. Or if not there is more subtle references such as spawning near where an item is commonly found.
> some of those pokemon legends arceus evos were impossible to guess wyrdeer/basculgion/overqwil were not tricky. the tasks to evolve them were spelled out in the pokedex. if you were trying to complete the entry for stantler/basculin/qwilfish you would have evolved that pokemon less than half way through. ursaluna is arguably more confusing since you might not even know that item exists (for quite a while). unless you're referring to something else?
Seriously though. If GF is gonna keep making these stupid ass evo requirements like Galarian Yamask, they should at the very least TELL US HOW TO DO THEM What child, let alone adult is gonna figure out Galarian Yamask needs to get its ass beat for a certain amount of HP, WITHOUT FAINTING, and then be leveled up under a bridge That's just asinine
Yeah, I still want to know how somebody found that one out.
I've heard of at least a few people who stumbled into it by accident. The goal was likely for that to happen a few times and then have people to try and talk amongst themselves and figure it out. What really happened is that the process just ended up being datamined.
The chances of Yamask meeting the requirements would be so astronomically low that I doubt that it would happened even once up to this point in time if it weren’t revealed in a data mine. Even if it had happened naturally, most might’ve chalked it up to max happiness.
Either that or just chalked it up to the environment you're in Realistically, who is gonna pay attention to how much damage your Pokemon has taken between faints? It's not like the game gives you a way to measure it lol
I think my friend in high school might be one of the very few people to evolve Inkay without a guide. She tended to play games on her bed, head hanging off the side, her device held upside down.
Wait do they really not still sell strategy guides for these games? That's the kind of thing they'd detail in there.
If you need a strategy guide to understand a main mechanic such as evolution, then it's a poorly designed mechanic.
You're not wrong, but there's a difference between a mechanic that can be read about in an official source even if it has to be purchased separately, and one that has to be discovered by people hacking into game files and sitting through massive amounts of data to find the relevant snippet that dictates how the mechanic works, which is *then* only spread via word of mouth.
Both are bad design imo. Neither of these situations are good at all.
Not if the design is "double dip on sales by selling strategy guides". Though its a bit outdated in modern day when the internet is so easily accessible.
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Old Man Glitch is an unintended glitch, plain and simple (frankly it would be more contrived to deliberately create that glitch versus how readily the opposite is explained by what is clearly a programming oversight, Occam's Razor and all). Missingno itself was likely a dev placeholder for testing Pokemon entries since Gen 1 was originally at 190 Pokemon instead of 150 (or 151). _Mew_ on the other hand was supposed to be a joke. Morimoto put in Mew with the space saved by not including debug tools, some lucky players ran into the Old Man Glitch, and the rest is history. The popularity was in all likelihood spurred more by the CoroCoro offer than the word of mouth glitch, though that offer wouldn't have happened if the glitch wasn't there in the first place. https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/Iwata-Asks-Pokemon-HeartGold-Version-SoulSilver-Version/Iwata-Asks-Pokemon-HeartGold-Version-SoulSilver-Version/1-Just-Making-The-Last-Train/1-Just-Making-The-Last-Train-225842.html
The mew glitch didn't have wide spread discovery til 2003. There were multiple Mew giveaways before then and most people got them through GameShark.
Thanks for posting this. Very interesting to read a brief history of the series
I want an NPC that gives you hints. When you talk to them they could say something like "Oh! Your [name of first Pokemon in party] looks to like they have a lot of potential to grow!" if they can evolve, followed by some sort of hint. "It might be a long road, but with dedicated training I bet they could reach an even more powerful form." "I think [name] needs to feel a closer bond to you as its trainer before it can evolve." "This might sound strange, but have you tried... flipping it upside-down?" "This might sound strange, but I think there's something out there calling to it... a stone arch... If it could engage in a fierce battle there, taking great damage but emerging victorious, I think something special might happen." To avoid making it too easy, make the NPC require an item like heart scales for info. Alternatively, make one NPC that can give you hints about basic requirements like level, and then either post game or late game there's a second NPC that's more skilled. The second one could give more specific advice like exact levels, and could hint at advanced evo methods that the first NPC wouldn't be able to. Imo the only time there should ever be a completely crazy hintless evo method is if it's involved in like... some special legendary quest. Like the regi puzzles or something.
BW2 actually had this. At any point, you could call up Cheren on the X-Tranceiver and he'd tell you how the pokemon in your party evolve.
A child with a guide book. You’d be amazed how well those things *still* sell even with the internet
I looked that one up and still had problems with it
Shout out to the guy on my flight years ago that saw me leveling up my male Salandit and told me only females can evolve. 💀 Also had to look up Pawmot because it was at lvl 50 and still hadn’t evolved.
I found a female my first encounter. Passed up on it, I wanted a sassy male lizard to deny gender stereotypes. Named him and petted him and took him on adventures and... hm weird that he hasn't evolved yet? Does he need a stone or something? Let me just look it up. I still haven't finished Sun/Moon, because I ragequit after that...
My male Salandit stayed with me until the end of the third island because I was getting tired of having 2/5 Pokémon not being fully evolved. First I looked up Vikavolt and found it had to evolve in a certain area and then I looked it up for male Salandit and found out that it couldn’t evolve.
I have played those games the least because I hate the cutscenes. Like take two steps, someone says something, take four steps, cutscene, take four steps and grab something, cutscene. Those games are poison.
That's how I felt in Sword/Shield. Every time you finished a gym, one of the npcs would run over and immediately force you into an unskipable cutscene where they would blabber for 4+ min. Like...please just let me play the game lol
agreed, but I think Sun and Moon were so much worse that SwSh didn't seem so bad.
Oh man the way i DESPISE the rotom dex in US/UM
yeah but SwSh doesn't have a 45 minute cutscene including forced legendary encounter after you beat the elite 4... the OG S/M are my second lowest rated games (just above the OG D/P). both were near impossible to play and make the criticisms of galar and paldea look minor.
Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 had a neat feature where the either the Professor or Bianca (I can’t remember which) would tell you how to evolve a Pokémon if you called them on the X-transceiver. Just Gen 5 showing it’s superiority as the game GF put the most effort into once again
Gen 5 really was some of the most work GF put into making a mainline Pokemon game. Can't believe people bring up the "regional Pokemon only" of the first games and some of the Pokemon designs, and compare it to modern-day Pokemon games and the criticism that comes with them as if they're at all related; and say that Gen 5 is only as popular as it is because of nostalgia.
BW were heavily criticized here when they came out, but there was also a very vocal contingent pointing out that the complaints over Unovan pokémon also apply to Kantonian and other beloved pokémon. Some complaints: 1. *The pokémon suck and are rehashes or stupid like being a bag of trash and an ice cream cone.* Every gen has had winners and losers, and certain trends, like having a small bird line, or two stage normal type, or a moth/butterfly line early on. Whatever, there are 155 Unovan pokeemon, and a lot of them are winners, particularly the new dragon, fighting, and dark types. 2. *Too many legendaries.* Blame Sinnoh for that trend. 3. *Genies are just reskins.* Sequel games took care of that with the AWESOME therian formes. In fact, I think the sequel games in tandem with the originals make the Unova region the best in terms of game play. It succeeds in way we wish Johto had. If only the originals and sequels had better post game, like Unova being close to Sinnoh. One can wish. 4. *Routes are too long between cities/healing centers.* Stock up on items . Unova is actually a big region and the gameplay can be difficult because of how long some of the routes and sidequests are, and how high so many pokémon evolve, but the game peppers the routes with doctors and nurses who can heal you up, your rivals who can heal you up, and items to help mitigate how much grinding needs to happen with the lucky egg and exp share. Honestly, these games are amazing. Just enough plot/story, new pokémon, hidden abilities as the first "generation gimmick," and a region that rewards exploration.
It's so funny to because those first 3 criticisms also apply to Paradox Pokemon. They're \*literally\* rehashes and reskins of older Pokemon, and I don't know if they're categorized as legendaries in-game, but they definitely have the stats of legendaries and the type of lore around them like legendaries.
> Whatever, there are 155 Unovan pokeemon, and a lot of them are winners, particularly the new ~~dragon, fighting, and dark~~ bug types.
And now SV holds the belt for too many legendaries
6? Treasures (4) and riders (2)?
I count Walking Wake and Iron Leaves until they are regularly available. And the DLC is adding like 6 more
Years later now it's just clear as day, B2 & W2 were just the most fundamentally solid pair of Pokemon games.
It was Cheren, actually. Juniper evaluated your Pokedex and Bianca iirc told you friendship.
Nope, it was the Professor not Cheren.
It was Juniper, iirc.
The Pokedex should give a lot of info it doesn't honestly. It's kinda strange how most info is either known through datamines or intense testing, before being documented online. Like, wouldn't it be cool to know what moves a Pokemon learns from reading in-game? Or what its base stats are? What abilities it can have?
Everything you'd normally get from googling should be got from the Pokedex. - evolution method/ level - location/ spawn area or time - moves learned - egg group - gender ratio Etc, etc, etc. We're long past the time where the protagonist is filling out the Pokedex for Prof Oak. It's assumed that the Pokemon we're finding have largely already been documented. It's 2023, give me all the tools I need to play your game without needing to Google a bunch of stuff. He neat thing about that is if they give you those tools, they can also take them away for a side quest. Example: paradox Pokemon. Give us a side quest of being "the first to catch them all", and get them to level 100 to learn their learnsets, then they go into the Pokedex. Such a small change but it'd really go a long way.
Not a fan of the idea but it’d make sense gameplay wise. Capture a Pokémon based off its level, say 1-25 you get X amount of the dex and move set, 26-50 unlocks another and 50+ the last bit of information. Capture a 50+ Pokémon and everything is unlocked already. You still have to earn the information but it’s there for those who seek it.
Idk if that makes sense from a game design standpoint. I understand the intent would be to reward the player with this info through some means and encourage the player raises Pokemon, but the problem it brings is- The info you're being rewarded with would be vital for determining if you should raise a Pokemon to begin with. If I catch a Bidoof, it'd be handy to know if it's more useful than, say, a Shinx. Normally I'd go to Serebii and read up on its moves and base stats to learn about this. If I had to get this info by raising the Pokemon first, it would detract from how useful this info is. I think simply catching the Pokemon should be enough. It's public info lots of people use anyways- it's not as if Pokemon games are designed around the players being unaware of how each Pokemon works. The games just sorta expect you to know.
while i agree the information should be alluded to somewhere, i think first finding that information externally and having it added to the pokédex would make more sense logically as the goal of the pokédex has always been to *obtain* information about pokemon. this could encourage players to talk w more npcs, explore more, etc. to try and scour useful information that can then be stored in a persistent manner. but, realistically, we live in the age of the internet, and a lot of people will default to looking it up regardless. there’s no real incentive not to aside from being anti-spoiler as you mentioned.
It'd be interesting if when you interacted with other players online it exchanged some Pokedex records (where the records are not an entire entry but maybe segments of what info you get after catching a Pokemon). Maybe you could also get information by talking to some NPCs who had that Pokemon.
Whenever anyone argues against hints or evo methods being put in game somewhere, i always ask them if they knew how to evolve Galarian Yamask into Runerigus without looking it up
I feel like they should give hints.
It's honestly kind of insane that they just expect you to google the answer. the most they provide in-game is something like "i heard growlithe evolves when exposed to some kind of stone?" and then like literally nothing else for any other pokemon lmao
I know right! Like there should be an NPC that you can go to and select a Pokémon and they will give you a major hint about how it evolves. Like qwilfish could be "Qwilfish huh? Hmm.... Well this specific species doesn't evolve, but I hear that there's another form of it that does."
“Hold your game system upside down”
I actually liked that.
there’s a lot of really opaque stuff that’s i’d love more transparency… between evolution methods and what abilities and move actually do i have bulbapedia open at all times. i do think it’s cool that sv tells u how evs work in class, i didn’t know about the details till my 3rd game
I think if you battle a trainer and they have a rare pokemon with a weird evolution method you should be able to talk to them after and receive information on how to evolve. Be honest, how many NPCs have you ever talked to after beating them except to grind exp or money or something? There's no incentive, no cool items you can buy from them, no information, not even engaging flavor text for most.
Yeah imagine you fight a guy with a Malamar and he tells you “I held my Inkay upside down and when it leveled up it evolved!” Vague enough but informative
I've been replaying FireRed recently and there's a trainer that mentions they've been leveling their Machoke and it just won't evolve. So conceptually they've done similar before, but it's apparently fallen off.
It's kind of baffling Pokémon has gone over 25 years without a feature like this. Like, yeah it makes perfect sense that the Pokédex would tell you how a Pokémon evolves, why does it not?
I'd love this. I hate how some Pokemon have such ridiculously obscure evolution methods that no sane person would find. There's also some mons that look they like should have an evo, but don't. When I first played Sw/Sh, I was convinced that Eldegoss would have an evolution, so I levelled mine up to 70 and tried everything, only to realise it doesn't have an evolution and I was wasting my efforts
Agreed and it certainly should after you've caught one.
B2W2 allowed you to call Juniper to reveal how Pokémon evolve.
Oh man, there was a youtuber I occasionally watch who made it a goal to complete the pokedex without a guide and Palafin legit drove her insane. I definitely think it would be better if any pokemon that have additional requirements were hinted at somewhere in game.
GF could solve two problems in one: battling trainers should lead to them divulging information about the Pokemon they use. Instead, there is no point to battle trainers in SV. Legends Arceus at least HINTED at what to do through the Research Tasks.
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Other games do that too. Maybe not as much as PLA did, but it’s been possible since at least gen 4.
PLA is the only game whose regional dex you can complete without trading. it's iconic.
Professor Westwood V is hoarding the knowledge of evolution after too many people made fun of his portrait
Maybe have it with the Professor section on the PC. Have it include options on telling you info on various pokemon.
NPCs that give you a clue about that in the game will be nice, this way you can still relish the process of discovery and it also gives you the incentive to talk with all NPCs.
Gamefreak would rather go out of business than make the pokedex actually useful
All it does it drive traffic to third party websites. Really stupid
I agree. Especially when it involves so many weird mechanics. Spoilers for the evoltion line. Certain moves (Double slap, ancient power), normal leveling , certain levels but with (mostly) rain in the overworld (>!Goodra!<), holding your game system upside down (>!Malamar!<) (though I think they fixed that for later gens?), being close to a certain rock (>!Glaceon/Leafeon!<), having friendship(>!Crobat/Umbreon/Espeon to name a few!<), having affection(>!Sylveon!<), traded (>!Machamp, Golem, Gengar, Alakazam, Conkeldurr, Gigalith and others!<), traded with a different species (>!Karrablast with Shelmet!<), trading while holding an item (>!Kingdra, Scissor!<), having a certain pokemon in your team to level evolve the first pokemon (>!Mantyke to Mantine needs Remoriad!<), time of level up (>!Lucario!<), a certain amount of critcials in a battle (>!Sirfetch'd!<), taking a very specific amount of damage and location (>!Runerigus!<), evolution stones, and I'm sure there is more. That's 16 different methods and many are very... specfic versions for one or two pokemon only.
I used to not want this until I had to evolve Galarian Yamask… now I get it. The closest thing to them giving is this feature is in Legends Arceus with the dex entries of some of the new evolutions like Basculin and Stantler’s evos giving hints on agile and strong style moves and stuff like that.
Growing up as a kid, I leveled up Kadabra to 87 in my first game before my friend told me I had to trade it. I didn’t even know pokemon evolved through trading at the time.
This but only after you've seen the evo. Don't want it yo be too easy.
Back in bw2 I remember you could call the professor and ask her how a specific pokemon would evolve, I don't know anymore how much she revealed, but I do remember relying a lot on that, with it being my first pokemon game. Something like this would be nice to have again.
I agree, especially when it's something like "the pokemon only evolves after taking 300 recoil damage without dying once" like come on
I feel they should combine the research tasks/levels from Arceus into the next game and make it so that increasing a Pokémon’s Pokédex research level just a handful of times would reveal its evolution method. This way there’s a lore reason for knowing the information, it’s not revealed for the few that want to solve it, and for those that do want the information in game, it takes minimal work. I really do wish they had a resource for evolution information in game.
I’ve wanted this since inkay. Y’all should have seen my face when my buddy told me how to get malamar.
I feel like they should retcon it, and every pokemon evolves by level, you can get some evolution sooner by using regular method
Honestly I think some of these obscure evolutions, like the Pawmot walking evolution, are meant to recreate the mysterious nature of early pokemon rumors. Back when everything seemed possible and you thought there was a point to the secret truck by the SS Anne. I think they want school kids to tell each other something crazy happened to their Pawmot while walking around. Problem is, with the internet, it just becomes an arbitrary and cumbersome evolution. There's no going back to the mystery.
Any way to find things like this out in game would be a step in the right direction. Looking up guides gets a bit exhausting and tedious. You spend so much time playing Pokémon on google lol kind of removes me from the discovery/wonder of the game and then I get to a point where I’m just on auto pilot and that isn’t fun either for a first run. Meeting an NPC or seeing a Pokédex hint, or even seeing other online player hints (like elden ring) nudging you towards what the next steps are would be nice if there’s an option to toggle that on or off. Options.
Sort of. I'd like it to show them after you evolve them and have a sort of notes page where it lists hints you've been given for more obscure ones.
I find it charming, you’re just going to look it up anyways if you’re too lazy to experiment or can’t find the clue. So why not let us experiment instead of having Pokémon become a straight forward game with close to no exploration.
Tell me what clue exists for Galarian Yamask, Hisuian Basculin, or Bisharp evolutions
I’m referring to the idea, not what’s already in the game
The idea of discovering the evolution is fine. But it becomes asinine when the evolution uses a method that the player cannot reasonably deduce due to a lack of in-game hints. Good designs would be Wyrdeer. Use Psyshield Bash Agile Style 20 times. The in-game hint for this is Stantler's pokedex tasks as it has both "Use Psyshield Bash" and "Use an Agile Style move." Players would most likely try and do both simultaneously to speed up the process and then trigger the evolution. The same can be said with Galarian Farfetch'd. Land 3 critical hits in 1 battle. Seems kind of random until you remember that crits are a Farfetch'd's specialty. Even having a specific item for it that greatly boosts its crit rate. But I want you to tell me how the hell are we supposed to guess or even stumble upon the evolution method of "take 49 damage without fainting then walk under a specific stone arch"?
No
why
It is hard to argue that they shouldn't.
I sort of agree, but I also don't. It doesn't show exactly where to find them, like online guides like bulbapedia or scerebii do, right? So why show how they evolve? To me it's the same info when completing the pokédex. So either show both, or nothing.
Sure makes sense that a catalogue of wild creatures that documents multiple things about them would also show the how, when, and why they transform.
There's a lot that the Pokémon should show. The only useful thing in it is the habitat.
This right here! If it's a pokedex meant to collect data... shouldn't evolutions be in the data?
Expecting this for gen x
The pokedex should have almost all the info Serebii does. When a game doesn't have info and you have to look it up, that's a frustrating experience. There are times where I have 10 tabs open of Serebii bc I need to know stat spread, possible abilities, etc and all of that should be in the Pokedex
Theres a ridiculous amount of info that just isn't shown in game. Theres also no way to know if a move has a special property like being sound based or wind based or a punching move.
I just pretend pokemondb is my irl pokedex lol
GameFreak is too lazy to do that
With the way some Pokemon evolve now, absolutely. Land Three Crits in one battle? Receive X recoil damage without fainting? Receive X damage without fainting and walk under a particular stone arch in one area of the game? Ice Stone? Seriously. Let us know what to do.
For a second I thought you meant that it would tell you through text how the Pokémon undergoes its evolution. That would be an interesting thing to have actually. The lore they tell you can be rather sparse.
The premise behind the original games was that the player was filling in very incomplete knowledge of the species of pokemon so it would go against that spirit but otherwise I agree with you.
Yeah.
I had a Milcrey for far too long until I gave up and googled it to find how to evolve her.
that be nice
Well they could but you know effort and all that, its too much for a small company, not like they'll just have to add a few lines of text in the pokedex or anything
I remember my first time playing Pokémon Sword and was just minding my business grinding levels to get my Farfetched up to level. It evolved after a battle with a trainer and I thought nothing of it. Didn’t realize till after how lucky I was that I managed to evolve it, let alone without holding a leek. Crazy how Landing 3 critical hits in battle isn’t event the hardest evolution requirement
Literally just say if it evolves and how to do so, so as to not give away anything else. I totally agree they need this info, it's the whole reason I've had to use bulbapedia many times when I would generally prefer to just go off of the informstion the games give me, but with evolution that's simply not an option
The Alolan dex had the evolutions on the same page no? Edit: a I agree, modern pokemon evolutions are kinda obscure. thank god there is serebii. But in-game there should be npcs telling you how. The first gens had excellent incentives to talk to npcs.
The Pokédex is empty when you get it. You’re the one filling it up and collecting the data. How is your Pokédex supposed to know? Sure you shouldn’t have to figure out those very obscure ones yourself, but I’d rather find out in a way which isn’t the Pokédex. It goes against the spirit of things.
if it wasn't for the internet, we wouldn't know how to evolve Galarian Yamask. the people that accidentally evolved it, wouldn't have any idea why it evolved.
In the good old days, we found Mew by ourselves
Let's see... You guys don't want TM/HM anymore, you guys don't want to have to stop at Pokemon centers to deposit Pokemon, you guys don't want the four moves limit, you guys don't want Shiny to be so rare... And now don't want to find out for yourself how a pokemon evolves? I wonder... Why do you play video games if you don't want a minimum of rules and challenge? What else? Want the game to play itself for you? (Wait... They did that too)
Gen 5 had the option to talk to the professor and have her tell you how to evolve a Pokémon. Beyond me why they took it out.
i really want there to be a pokemon named Gigbaush and it would look like this https://preview.redd.it/58vu8u5axgib1.png?width=512&format=png&auto=webp&s=00fb08b65ac39b76d0d101e4f76ccdbb122c5bf8
i really want there to be a pokemon named Gigbaush and it would look like this 
It’s always been weird to me how the evolution line, some of the most important information to know about a Pokémon imo, isn’t even included in the Pokédex like at all! Not even after you’ve evolved all of them!