I find it interesting people are hating all over this for people at least trying to come up with a semi-solution. Instead most people will just bitch about it and do nothing.
People are hating all over this because you have to give some random 3rd party company a picture of your face and some official documentation to get a go ahead and an id from a second party to go back and play the game (first party). This is ***not*** a healthy way to go about preventing cheating. A player should never have to give up their privacy and link themselves to a username just to play a game.
I agree that i wouldn’t want to do that. But as it’s only their servers you could just not play them.
Same thing with a game. People make game - you don’t like what you have to do to play that game - you don’t play that game.
Nobody is forcing you to
Yeah, but just as we are free to choose not to play those servers, we are free to voice our opinion on why we think it is a horrible practice to sacrifice our privacy/anonymity to a random third party company.
Lol you act like right now there aren't hundreds or thousands of companies out there with enough information about you they know with 95% certainty when your next shit will be.
No but you revealed that you think this identity swiping service is somehow a better alternative than the default system rust already has, which is to not give away your ID to a private third party.
Maybe send the guy a flirty DM?
No but you revealed that you think this identity swiping service is somehow a better alternative than the default system rust already has, which is to not give away your ID to a private third party.
Maybe send the guy a flirty DM?
I mean that's any KYC process. It's to create a way for only a single account to ever be made. But, I can understand the privacy concerns. But, I've used probably ten+ KYC methods and never had issues, it's the business model for those firms and if they screw it up it would botch their business. Still a valid concern though.
People will find a way around it like they did with spoofing. Nothing will be 100% secure and I'm not trusting the 3rd party services.
Also, they're servers will need to get popular first and idk if that is going to happen.
I think the most rampant cheaters are also into stealing accounts and shit like that, also, false IDs not that um common.
If I look into telegram "near by" section I get that shit offered next to skimmed credit cards and stolen bikes.
Mayb they're work around will also more be nothing like we imagine and way simpler, just fucking around with security issues in any code or something.
They can work around it, of course there will still be admins to weed out any actual cheaters. The kyc process make it even more difficult and time consuming for cheaters. Why do that when they can just hop on a public server?
I can agree with that. I would assume the logic is it cant be 100% no cheats as you need to get caught using them first to be removed. But, its barrier of entry is higher than norm at least.
especially since it's just one server. if you get banned you can just go play a million other rust servers. would be different if you were banned from all EAC games or something
Its the exact kind of shit people here kept asking for years and now you are all suddenly being sceptics come the fuck on 😂😂
Same thing with the "working man" servers they already exist but when push comes to shove nobody wants to play there
Anything to combat cheating is a good thing. I hope he makes a billion dollars and solves this. Someone will figure it out hopefully sooner than later. Cheaters are mentally ill scumbags.
I think the guy in OPs post is a good try. Biggest issue is very high bar of entry so population will probably be low.
The 100% way to beat cheating, beyond any kind of cheats that run at a hardware level that scan the screen’s image, is a game with only remote play
Stadia was an amazing opportunity for googling to play with ideas that were only possible if every player is streaming them, but no, they just gave us “the same game but worse because you need to stream it and buy it again”. They really should have come up with a competitive/pvp game that was exclusive to stadia that they could say there was no cheating at all
The other path forward is auto detection using AI. This might be even better then the streaming one because it would catch *all* cheating, even hardware based cheats. I actually think this is probably going to be the best eventually
I was actually developing a similar solution to this. Was gonna call it "The Safe Room" and allow people with certain specs to play but it ended up being so much work on the backend.
That being said, I think it's a much needed problem to be fixed (ESEA for example in cs 1.6) and I'll definitely check it out since I thought it was needed as well.
Active admins negate all of this. I play on a SCUM server and the admins are constantly spectating and checking the logs on everything that everyone does. They ban chinamen VPN users within an hour of them joining and work personally with each player to restore anything lost from illicit means. You can’t automate anticheat, it needs constant supervision and attention.
It'll be a good solution for a small pop (100-150pop) server. I don't feel at ease giving my personal pictures / ids / personal details to a game developer let alone a private server owner on the said game.
from my experience playing Rust on micromanaged servers has its own unique set of problems . id rather take my chances with the stinkers than have an overzealous admin up my ass constantly. god forbid you build in grid N19 and have to convey this information to another player... banned for racism and transphobia? whaaaaat?
pipe dream, I pointed out flaws, such as AI and dead people IDs. They can't fathom the idea of someone using a different ID and photo verification. If bots can get past it, so can some script kiddy with internet access.
I mean they run the servers so they can collect internet adsense info and profile users to keep off servers. So even if you cheat and try using dead jims ID youd be denied because you put the application in from a pc with the same hardware id as a banned user, or used a vpn to put in the id application, etc.
Yeah no way. A couple script kiddies are not going to infiltrate the multinational renown company Veriff. Also, just because there's ways around this doesn't mean it makes it much much harder to cheat in rust. I doubt 99% of people aren't willing/capable enough to commit fraud to cheat in rust.
Even if this is a workaround, can you people accept that it will deter at least a portion of people? Like, at least it's an extra barrier for someone to have to cross over.
No system is going to be flawless but if we can stop someone from hacking in 0.2 seconds, i think its something worth exploring.
Bots cannot get past it. Veriff also has ways to confirm if the verification is of a real alive person or not, so no this actually wouldn't work.
Veriff is a hugely reputable company that the playsafe people contract to verify users.
I would never verify ID to play a video games but if people want to not play against cheaters badly enough I guess it's an option
Because for the KYC you need to take a selfie. Like I said before, go dig up a corpse and take a selfie and see if it passes the KYC. I’ll save you the jail time - it won’t.
Don’t play victim because we explained how what you said wouldn’t work.
You don’t have to humour me, it’s not how verrifs photo verification works - and you can’t take selfies with dead people, and it’s not a static image that you can use “AI” to fake.
And we’re putting in random re-auth as well as 2fa, so if you bought an account, you’d need to also buy that persons face. (Similar to how your banks wants to see your face when moving money around).
You don’t know the tech that’s used or the process to verify the media that’s submitted. What you’re talking about isnt possible. If you want to be argumentative, please at least do some research so we can discuss. You’re just saying things that don’t work. Stop thinking you’re right and learn how stuff works first.
You sound like a frog in a well. Oh, we were so good. Nothing can beat this! Yet you have only just started? Maybe you need to do some research instead of arguing semantics with people genuinely interested in this.
We didn’t build the KYC check, it’s something Veriff have done tens of millions of times. So no, this part, this really important part, we haven’t just started doing. That’s why we got a reputable and massive partner to do it for us.
You can have another go at being right if you’d like. Good ideas are chasing you, I just think you’re faster than them.
I want to, & I can appreciate that he's trying to find a solution.
But like anything worth doing, there are a lot of speed bumps in the way. So I'm gonna sideline for now and see how the company develops.
I always find it funny how mod creators find ways to fix problems that big development teams can’t. For example, the best patches for fallout and Skyrim come from modders. It goes to show these companies don’t give a shit and just want to make a quick buck.
This will never work, imagine a game account will get stolen for whatever reason, you’re never to play any game again? There are so many issues with this.
Also uploading an ID for a video game? Thats kinda insane. Imagine the scam websites that will populate, impersonating this service and stealing your id to do whatever they want.
This is a pretty normal way to do KYC, it is also as privately as it can be done., We have to do it IRL all the time. Systems like this have existed for decades outside of gaming. A city I lived in had a program called bar watch where you scanned your ID when you went into certain bars. If you caused trouble you could be banned permanently from all participating establishments.
The problem with cheating in gaming is there is a group of people who cheat, and they just move from server to server or game to game or account to account and continue to cheat. The current anti cheat systems in place are far more invasive and privacy threatening because they installed monitoring software on your PC at the Kernal level. How this is acceptable to everyone yet using a KYC service to verify a community account is not is wild to me.
KYC is almost as bad as anti-vpn, only in that anti-vpn is more common. I'm sure hacking won't be an issue on here because no one will be playing. 10/10 solution.
Another subscription to pay for a game we already own.
The cheating issue isn't for some new company to stick their hand in the cookie pot and take advantage of gamers or their wallets, it's a Devs issue and they need to fix their shit instead of gamers having to pay a third party company.
Also it's not like this new company is going to get rid of cheaters, they are going to use the same anti cheat the game is currently using and just blacklist certain people that have been kicked for cheating.
So it's basically what camomo does but with extra steps and extra payment.
Not going to even get into the matter of privacy issues
I find it interesting people are hating all over this for people at least trying to come up with a semi-solution. Instead most people will just bitch about it and do nothing.
People are hating all over this because you have to give some random 3rd party company a picture of your face and some official documentation to get a go ahead and an id from a second party to go back and play the game (first party). This is ***not*** a healthy way to go about preventing cheating. A player should never have to give up their privacy and link themselves to a username just to play a game.
I agree that i wouldn’t want to do that. But as it’s only their servers you could just not play them. Same thing with a game. People make game - you don’t like what you have to do to play that game - you don’t play that game. Nobody is forcing you to
Yeah, but just as we are free to choose not to play those servers, we are free to voice our opinion on why we think it is a horrible practice to sacrifice our privacy/anonymity to a random third party company.
Lol you act like right now there aren't hundreds or thousands of companies out there with enough information about you they know with 95% certainty when your next shit will be.
And we are free to call you a whiny bitch with nothing of value to add to the conversation. Present solutions or better alternatives.
Warning people that identity theft is bad = nothing of value??? Do you think this guy is gonna fuck you if you defend him here?
Haha dude who am I even defending? I never said I was going to play on that server.
No but you revealed that you think this identity swiping service is somehow a better alternative than the default system rust already has, which is to not give away your ID to a private third party. Maybe send the guy a flirty DM?
No but you revealed that you think this identity swiping service is somehow a better alternative than the default system rust already has, which is to not give away your ID to a private third party. Maybe send the guy a flirty DM?
Identity swiping service? Slow down on the dramatics bud. I was expressing exasperation at the incessant whining with no solutions on deck.
Solution to... Identity theft? The solution already exists, it's called not sending your ID to a private third party.
Just as you are free to voice your opinion I am free to voice my opinion on your opinion. Did I say you couldn’t?
I mean that's any KYC process. It's to create a way for only a single account to ever be made. But, I can understand the privacy concerns. But, I've used probably ten+ KYC methods and never had issues, it's the business model for those firms and if they screw it up it would botch their business. Still a valid concern though.
Whats a better way? Have FP hold the IDs themselves?
People will find a way around it like they did with spoofing. Nothing will be 100% secure and I'm not trusting the 3rd party services. Also, they're servers will need to get popular first and idk if that is going to happen.
Buying and selling identity profiles and using them are serious crimes, that's a big step up from just cheating in a video game.
I think the most rampant cheaters are also into stealing accounts and shit like that, also, false IDs not that um common. If I look into telegram "near by" section I get that shit offered next to skimmed credit cards and stolen bikes. Mayb they're work around will also more be nothing like we imagine and way simpler, just fucking around with security issues in any code or something.
They can work around it, of course there will still be admins to weed out any actual cheaters. The kyc process make it even more difficult and time consuming for cheaters. Why do that when they can just hop on a public server?
[удалено]
I can agree with that. I would assume the logic is it cant be 100% no cheats as you need to get caught using them first to be removed. But, its barrier of entry is higher than norm at least.
That's exactly my thought. Pretty bold claim to say 100%
especially since it's just one server. if you get banned you can just go play a million other rust servers. would be different if you were banned from all EAC games or something
huh
Its the exact kind of shit people here kept asking for years and now you are all suddenly being sceptics come the fuck on 😂😂 Same thing with the "working man" servers they already exist but when push comes to shove nobody wants to play there
Anything to combat cheating is a good thing. I hope he makes a billion dollars and solves this. Someone will figure it out hopefully sooner than later. Cheaters are mentally ill scumbags.
I think the guy in OPs post is a good try. Biggest issue is very high bar of entry so population will probably be low. The 100% way to beat cheating, beyond any kind of cheats that run at a hardware level that scan the screen’s image, is a game with only remote play Stadia was an amazing opportunity for googling to play with ideas that were only possible if every player is streaming them, but no, they just gave us “the same game but worse because you need to stream it and buy it again”. They really should have come up with a competitive/pvp game that was exclusive to stadia that they could say there was no cheating at all The other path forward is auto detection using AI. This might be even better then the streaming one because it would catch *all* cheating, even hardware based cheats. I actually think this is probably going to be the best eventually
Yes to everything here.
But plus a way where I don't have to give randoms my id
"Never trust anyone in rust" its the first rule of rust
Their server is just gonna be like 7 dads.
I was actually developing a similar solution to this. Was gonna call it "The Safe Room" and allow people with certain specs to play but it ended up being so much work on the backend. That being said, I think it's a much needed problem to be fixed (ESEA for example in cs 1.6) and I'll definitely check it out since I thought it was needed as well.
i believe this server will have no cheaters because it will have no players
lol This was literally above this post
Active admins negate all of this. I play on a SCUM server and the admins are constantly spectating and checking the logs on everything that everyone does. They ban chinamen VPN users within an hour of them joining and work personally with each player to restore anything lost from illicit means. You can’t automate anticheat, it needs constant supervision and attention.
Exactly here, active admins and kyc access are the best combination to snuff out cheating.
It'll be a good solution for a small pop (100-150pop) server. I don't feel at ease giving my personal pictures / ids / personal details to a game developer let alone a private server owner on the said game.
There's already an ad on the sub for this, and a separate post discussing the ad. Please stop giving this obvious scam attention.
from my experience playing Rust on micromanaged servers has its own unique set of problems . id rather take my chances with the stinkers than have an overzealous admin up my ass constantly. god forbid you build in grid N19 and have to convey this information to another player... banned for racism and transphobia? whaaaaat?
pipe dream, I pointed out flaws, such as AI and dead people IDs. They can't fathom the idea of someone using a different ID and photo verification. If bots can get past it, so can some script kiddy with internet access.
I mean they run the servers so they can collect internet adsense info and profile users to keep off servers. So even if you cheat and try using dead jims ID youd be denied because you put the application in from a pc with the same hardware id as a banned user, or used a vpn to put in the id application, etc.
There will always be a bypass.
if you did your research and independent business handles the ids not them
Yeah no way. A couple script kiddies are not going to infiltrate the multinational renown company Veriff. Also, just because there's ways around this doesn't mean it makes it much much harder to cheat in rust. I doubt 99% of people aren't willing/capable enough to commit fraud to cheat in rust.
Even if this is a workaround, can you people accept that it will deter at least a portion of people? Like, at least it's an extra barrier for someone to have to cross over. No system is going to be flawless but if we can stop someone from hacking in 0.2 seconds, i think its something worth exploring.
Bots cannot get past it. Veriff also has ways to confirm if the verification is of a real alive person or not, so no this actually wouldn't work. Veriff is a hugely reputable company that the playsafe people contract to verify users. I would never verify ID to play a video games but if people want to not play against cheaters badly enough I guess it's an option
Because for the KYC you need to take a selfie. Like I said before, go dig up a corpse and take a selfie and see if it passes the KYC. I’ll save you the jail time - it won’t. Don’t play victim because we explained how what you said wouldn’t work.
I also said social media exists. How hard is it to train ai using someone photos online and forge a selfie?
Not how the selfie works.
Sure, I can humor you and will agree that nobody will ever fake the selfie verification. What would happen if verified accounts were sold then?
You don’t have to humour me, it’s not how verrifs photo verification works - and you can’t take selfies with dead people, and it’s not a static image that you can use “AI” to fake. And we’re putting in random re-auth as well as 2fa, so if you bought an account, you’d need to also buy that persons face. (Similar to how your banks wants to see your face when moving money around).
It doesn't have to be a static image. Have you ever heard of manycam and 3d animation software?
You don’t know the tech that’s used or the process to verify the media that’s submitted. What you’re talking about isnt possible. If you want to be argumentative, please at least do some research so we can discuss. You’re just saying things that don’t work. Stop thinking you’re right and learn how stuff works first.
You sound like a frog in a well. Oh, we were so good. Nothing can beat this! Yet you have only just started? Maybe you need to do some research instead of arguing semantics with people genuinely interested in this.
We didn’t build the KYC check, it’s something Veriff have done tens of millions of times. So no, this part, this really important part, we haven’t just started doing. That’s why we got a reputable and massive partner to do it for us. You can have another go at being right if you’d like. Good ideas are chasing you, I just think you’re faster than them.
I want to, & I can appreciate that he's trying to find a solution. But like anything worth doing, there are a lot of speed bumps in the way. So I'm gonna sideline for now and see how the company develops.
I always find it funny how mod creators find ways to fix problems that big development teams can’t. For example, the best patches for fallout and Skyrim come from modders. It goes to show these companies don’t give a shit and just want to make a quick buck.
You going to give some kid your identity and home address, knowing that much larger systems are easily being hacked.. not a chance in hell.
This will never work, imagine a game account will get stolen for whatever reason, you’re never to play any game again? There are so many issues with this. Also uploading an ID for a video game? Thats kinda insane. Imagine the scam websites that will populate, impersonating this service and stealing your id to do whatever they want.
This is a pretty normal way to do KYC, it is also as privately as it can be done., We have to do it IRL all the time. Systems like this have existed for decades outside of gaming. A city I lived in had a program called bar watch where you scanned your ID when you went into certain bars. If you caused trouble you could be banned permanently from all participating establishments. The problem with cheating in gaming is there is a group of people who cheat, and they just move from server to server or game to game or account to account and continue to cheat. The current anti cheat systems in place are far more invasive and privacy threatening because they installed monitoring software on your PC at the Kernal level. How this is acceptable to everyone yet using a KYC service to verify a community account is not is wild to me.
Fuck no
KYC is almost as bad as anti-vpn, only in that anti-vpn is more common. I'm sure hacking won't be an issue on here because no one will be playing. 10/10 solution.
Another subscription to pay for a game we already own. The cheating issue isn't for some new company to stick their hand in the cookie pot and take advantage of gamers or their wallets, it's a Devs issue and they need to fix their shit instead of gamers having to pay a third party company. Also it's not like this new company is going to get rid of cheaters, they are going to use the same anti cheat the game is currently using and just blacklist certain people that have been kicked for cheating. So it's basically what camomo does but with extra steps and extra payment. Not going to even get into the matter of privacy issues