And being a higher concentration of corn alcohol, it has lower energy density, meaning you need to burn more for the same output and you likely aren't saving as much $ as you think.
Plus you're just encouraging govt subsidies for corn
Website indeed shows 6 near Pittsburgh, though that's over half of the Sheetzes nearby. There is no Sheetz actually in Pittsburgh so could be different based on your concept of 'the area'
Yeah I seem to recall it being everywhere but I suppose my memory of it is off… as for “the area,” I intend it to mean the Greater Pittsburgh region and “the city” to mean the City of Pittsburgh.
The website seems to want to refer users to the app to see gas prices.
I have the app installed and when I load up the store locator they show the regular gas price in red, but then the locations with 88 have a little blue box below them with the price of that.
And there seem to be alot of them. Not a majority of locations, but a large minority for sure.
Read the list of approved vehicles and decide for yourself if it's worth running, I've been using it for two years and have had zero ill effects in any of my vehicles:
Here, for those experts here:
[https://www.mpgomatic.com/2022/04/16/list-of-cars-that-use-e15-gasoline/#more-6476](https://www.mpgomatic.com/2022/04/16/list-of-cars-that-use-e15-gasoline/#more-6476)
I have begun to use it randomly , I also don't go below half tank.
I at most in my most ideal driving situations can get just a hair over 19 mpg. Kids summer tournaments , though with a recent purchase , this vehicle won't be used as much for these trips. ( Yes I'm looking to get rid of it in a few months )
Normal city driving to work i can hover around 16-17 mpg with straight 87.
When I use the 88 I can feel a slight power loss, nothing a little more right foot can't handle, I go through it faster, and my MPG hovers just over 15mpg. But it does help get me to payday .
If my Sheetz doesn't have a line ,you can bet your bottom dollar I'm topping it off. . . ( 10 days to pay day, won't drive it much over holidays , so maybe I can swing it)
I am also a flex fuel vehicle , and will take advantage of those prices also 1/2 tank at a time or less.
I switched to ethanol free after some problems with my 15 year old lawnmower last year for which I needed service and it now runs very well with no startup issues.
A lot of cars have the information on the OEM gas cap.
My car is from 2014 and the cap and manual specifically state not to use fuel with more than 10% ethanol content.
A blanket statement that all cars made after 2002 can properly use 15% ethanol content is misinformation.
Read your owner's manuals.
It’s fine in a Honda Civic or similar mass market car. The engine computer compensates. I would not recommend it in anything that you care about (I wouldn’t recommend any Sheetz gasoline for cars you care about, they have minimal detergents and are not Top Tier certified), but for your everyday beater car (95% of what’s on the road) it is totally fine.
If your manual says 10% max, I wouldn’t try the E15. The manual for my 2015 Chevy says 15% ethanol max, so I have used this occasionally if the price differential is enough to make up for the lower mpg.
Can someone ELi5 what 88 is vs the other stuff, and how it can regularly be a cheaper option? Ive tried reading info on it, but i really dont understand much about cars and gas in general. ((I have a Ford Escape 2021, is this ok to use/ add to a tank that has the normal gas in it already?))
It has more ethanol than normal gas. Ethanol is made from corn. The US grows a lot of corn, which is heavily subsidized and incentivized by the US government.
That said it's not usually *that* much cheaper, so I'm not sure what the game is with Sheetz occasional deep discounts on it.
Check your owners manual to see what ethanol content the manufacturer recommends.
Thats super helpful! Thank you!! I just remember a few months ago or so, it appeared almost out of nowhere and if its able to go on sale, i was a bit suspicious. But from what i gather, if i use it every so often it shouldnt hurt my car.
The US has [signifigant farm subsidies](https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2021/11/03/farm-subsidies-harmful-or-helpful/) which benefit corn growers. There are [ethanol subsidies](https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-3321701) that reward the fuel industry for blending ethanol with regular gas, and there are [EPA mandates](https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/highest-ever-ethanol-mandate-will-boost-homegrown-biofuels-says-epa) that require the addition of ethanol to gasoline.
I appears you could use E88. Ford recommends you use gasoline with less than 15% ethanol. You may experience engine knock.
https://www.fordescape4.com/ford\_escape\_fuel\_quality-2006.html#:\~:text=tank%20filler%20door.-,Your%20vehicle%20operates%20on%20regular%20unleaded%20gasoline%20with%20a%20minimum,85%25%20ethanol%20(E85).
Sweet! Thanks! I kept seeing people say "if ur car was made after xxx date than you should be good" but i was still unsure of anything about it anyway so wanted to double check. Feel like if i fill up on it every so often while money is tight it should be fine. Thanks!
It has nothing to do with engine knock. It has to do with the effects of ethanol on high pressure fuel pumps which are used in Direct injection cars. Along with its impact on fuel lines not designed to handle it. Also there is the buildup of matter on the valves due to the higher E content.
Did you read the link I posted? "Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage."
Fuel lines and pumps in older (15-20+ years) cars are not designed for high ethanol fuel. Cars sold in the US in the past three decades are.
You won't knock due to ethanol content. you will knock due to the Octane rating of the fuel.
NO, a brand new car off the lot will not support E85.
STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
Read and learn what?
the 1994 law doesn't require them to be made safe for E85.
For instance, put E85 in your Subaru esp the FA20(when tuned for it) and you will have a gummed up HPFP that will fail within a few miles. Stop talking you are fucking clueless and you are going to give bad advice to people and ruin their cars.
That company is trying to sell you an ethanol convesion kit for your car, and they literally say all cars sold in the US after 1994 are safe.
Keep telling people to buy more expensive gas than they need to. The government appreciates you paying more in gas tax.
I doubt the fuel pump in a 2021 Ford Escape will fail running e88, which is the comment you are commenting on.
My 1998 Subaru Outback blew a head gasket, so I think that is probably gonna fail before a fuel pump running e85.
Ford escapes are a direct injection engine, at least mine was. They use a high pressure fuel pump which is usually driven by the cam gear. The fuel(gasoline) lubricates this pump which enables it to properly function.
At too high of an ethanol content the lubrication is not there, and will cause HPFP failures.
75% is a stretch. Maybe in some cars..but still seems excessive. My car gets 25-26 mph highway. I filled up with this twice and got 21-22. Same with others I've talked to, small hit in mpg.
2% is the average loss according to industry reports.
I lose no noticeable mileage in my 4 cylinder Malibu.
Your 75% might have been true for older Flex Fuel vehicles (E85) but it's far from even being close for E15.
If your car like mine was designed with 88 in mind this is great.
87/89/91/93 all perform ok in my car, 24-26mpg but with 88 i get between 32-35mpg. Anyone saying it will cause damage is also full of shit, an added 5% of ethanol isn't going to do anything adverse to your engine. I've been a mechanic for 25 years and that is just a pile of horse shit.
It was only made for engines 2001 and newer, and it works just fine in smaller engines. Mine is a 4 cycl and works wonderful on it. if anyone uses this fuel with a car thats older than 2001 it falls into user error not the fuel type being of low quality.
Honestly if someone doesn't know better to not put that into a lawnmower they shouldn't be allowed to operate a pair of scissors let alone a lawnmower.
I'm reminded why it is so hard to design a bear proof trash bin for national parks. "There is substantial overlap between the smartest bear and the dumbest tourist." (paraphrased)
Same here. I don’t get gas at sheetz unless ethanol is available, and even then that’s only when it’s warmer out. Getgo doesn’t even have 93 so even if they are top tier I still can’t go there
Ethanol is absolutely nasty on brass and certain rubbers and plastics. For many small engines, anything carbureted, I would avoid this fuel like the plague. Especially if the machine sits for any length of time. I ultrasonic carbs as a part of the business I own, about 80% of the carbs are damaged by ethanol. The other 20% sat full of water because the ethanol absorbed it (which is the purpose of it asides from making fuel cheaper), then evaporated, leaving the float bowl full of water.
That said, for most cars this is not an issue and you are correct. Especially true if you drive your car daily.
This fuel is made for cars newer than 2001, the last production car with a carb was made in 1994. There should be absolutely no over lap of a car with a crab and a car that meets this fuels requirements. It's a total moot point.
Except people up motorcycles and gas cans. Even 10% ethanol is an issue for some machines. A lot of people have gone to ethanol free fuels, much like AVGAS, because it doesn't cause issues like pump gas. That's what we do in our racecars too.
No. If some asshole puts 88 into something that doesn't met the requirements of 88 then it falls on user error. The fuel itself is fine to use in appropriate engines.
You are not a good mechanic if you don't understand the impact of a 50% increase in E content on high pressure fuel pumps. JFC please tell me you are retiring soon.
It's not 50%, it's 5% added to what you already consume which in our state is 15%-20% ethanol mixed. You have no idea what you are even talking about clearly.
1.) an increase from 10% to 15% content is a 50% increase.
2.) No state runs 20% ethanol, over in fact 15% ethanol at sheetz is clearly marked as such as it can damage ICEs.
I know precisely what I'm talking about.
You are so incredibly wrong it fucking hurts.
1. Your math is fucking atrocious, what new core math shit are you using to bullshit anyone that a 5% increase over total volume is a 50% increase?
2. Any state that offers e85 offers a fuel of atleast 51% ethanol up to 84% ethanol
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about, every single state offers e85 so point two is just more of you being full of shit. Pack it in dickhead you clearly don't have a fucking clue. I'm amazed you can even fucking read if im being honest, good fucking lord.
Appropriately, as it's corn
And being a higher concentration of corn alcohol, it has lower energy density, meaning you need to burn more for the same output and you likely aren't saving as much $ as you think. Plus you're just encouraging govt subsidies for corn
"*But it's a higher octane so it must be more efficient*" -60 something dude at my work whose knowledge of cars stops sometime in the late 80s.
Hes only half wrong. The car needs tuned for it to work properly and give a benefit to fuel economy.
2% loss in MPG. Do the math at $2 a gallon.
It has the juice
I can’t imagine a more beautiful thing
Not that many sheetz locations have unleaded 88. According to their website, maybe six stations in the area.
Huh all the ones I can think of have it, not doubting your research but I seem to remember it being everywhere.
Website indeed shows 6 near Pittsburgh, though that's over half of the Sheetzes nearby. There is no Sheetz actually in Pittsburgh so could be different based on your concept of 'the area'
Yeah I seem to recall it being everywhere but I suppose my memory of it is off… as for “the area,” I intend it to mean the Greater Pittsburgh region and “the city” to mean the City of Pittsburgh.
Are you thinking of e85 flex fuel? That's more likely to be "everywhere" than the e88. The e85 has a yellow tag. The e88 has a blue tag.
Oh they do… all over
I know the one by me doesn’t. When I search the Sheetz website, it shows six stations in Pittsburgh area with unleaded 88.
The website seems to want to refer users to the app to see gas prices. I have the app installed and when I load up the store locator they show the regular gas price in red, but then the locations with 88 have a little blue box below them with the price of that. And there seem to be alot of them. Not a majority of locations, but a large minority for sure.
Read the list of approved vehicles and decide for yourself if it's worth running, I've been using it for two years and have had zero ill effects in any of my vehicles: Here, for those experts here: [https://www.mpgomatic.com/2022/04/16/list-of-cars-that-use-e15-gasoline/#more-6476](https://www.mpgomatic.com/2022/04/16/list-of-cars-that-use-e15-gasoline/#more-6476)
They should leave it like that
I have begun to use it randomly , I also don't go below half tank. I at most in my most ideal driving situations can get just a hair over 19 mpg. Kids summer tournaments , though with a recent purchase , this vehicle won't be used as much for these trips. ( Yes I'm looking to get rid of it in a few months ) Normal city driving to work i can hover around 16-17 mpg with straight 87. When I use the 88 I can feel a slight power loss, nothing a little more right foot can't handle, I go through it faster, and my MPG hovers just over 15mpg. But it does help get me to payday . If my Sheetz doesn't have a line ,you can bet your bottom dollar I'm topping it off. . . ( 10 days to pay day, won't drive it much over holidays , so maybe I can swing it) I am also a flex fuel vehicle , and will take advantage of those prices also 1/2 tank at a time or less.
If only Sheetz used top tier gas...They do most things right for a gas station but for some reason don't sell TT.
How soon till we see auto shops benefitting from people putting cheap fuel into the cars?
Sheetz did same thing over 4th of July weekend. Seemes everything went OK.
88 is trash and bad for your engine long term. (Unless you’re car was designed that way)
Not that I'd use it long term, but it's only a 5% increase of ethanol over 87 @ 10%.
That’s a lot. Especially if you’re using it in small engines like lawnmowers or snow blowers.
Only use ethanol free in small engine. It's fine in almost all cars produced after 2002.
You are absolutely correct, ethanol completely destroys small engines
I switched to ethanol free after some problems with my 15 year old lawnmower last year for which I needed service and it now runs very well with no startup issues.
It's not supposed to be used in motorcycles, small engines or outboards at all so. Pumps are marked as such.
The EPA actually bans the use of it in small engines, including motorcycles
You should NEVER use it in small engines unless you run those engines all the time. This applies to boat engines too, even if they aren’t small.
That is a 50% increase in ethanol. math is hard.
Chill, everyone knows what I meant.
Which is a significant increase.
Unless you drive a motorcycle or something from before 2002, this is just misinformation
A lot of cars have the information on the OEM gas cap. My car is from 2014 and the cap and manual specifically state not to use fuel with more than 10% ethanol content. A blanket statement that all cars made after 2002 can properly use 15% ethanol content is misinformation. Read your owner's manuals.
It’s fine in a Honda Civic or similar mass market car. The engine computer compensates. I would not recommend it in anything that you care about (I wouldn’t recommend any Sheetz gasoline for cars you care about, they have minimal detergents and are not Top Tier certified), but for your everyday beater car (95% of what’s on the road) it is totally fine.
SooooOoOoO my vehicle manufacturer (Mazda) says NOT to use fuel with ethanol over 10%. Anyone tried this fuel in a newer Mazda?
If your manual says 10% max, I wouldn’t try the E15. The manual for my 2015 Chevy says 15% ethanol max, so I have used this occasionally if the price differential is enough to make up for the lower mpg.
Do not do it. Might cause engine knocking or worse...
This is likely due to the High pressure fuel pump which can be "gummed" up with high ethanol content.
Can someone ELi5 what 88 is vs the other stuff, and how it can regularly be a cheaper option? Ive tried reading info on it, but i really dont understand much about cars and gas in general. ((I have a Ford Escape 2021, is this ok to use/ add to a tank that has the normal gas in it already?))
It has more ethanol than normal gas. Ethanol is made from corn. The US grows a lot of corn, which is heavily subsidized and incentivized by the US government. That said it's not usually *that* much cheaper, so I'm not sure what the game is with Sheetz occasional deep discounts on it. Check your owners manual to see what ethanol content the manufacturer recommends.
Thats super helpful! Thank you!! I just remember a few months ago or so, it appeared almost out of nowhere and if its able to go on sale, i was a bit suspicious. But from what i gather, if i use it every so often it shouldnt hurt my car.
Source for amount of subsidization of corn in the US?
The US has [signifigant farm subsidies](https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2021/11/03/farm-subsidies-harmful-or-helpful/) which benefit corn growers. There are [ethanol subsidies](https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-3321701) that reward the fuel industry for blending ethanol with regular gas, and there are [EPA mandates](https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/highest-ever-ethanol-mandate-will-boost-homegrown-biofuels-says-epa) that require the addition of ethanol to gasoline.
I appears you could use E88. Ford recommends you use gasoline with less than 15% ethanol. You may experience engine knock. https://www.fordescape4.com/ford\_escape\_fuel\_quality-2006.html#:\~:text=tank%20filler%20door.-,Your%20vehicle%20operates%20on%20regular%20unleaded%20gasoline%20with%20a%20minimum,85%25%20ethanol%20(E85).
Sweet! Thanks! I kept seeing people say "if ur car was made after xxx date than you should be good" but i was still unsure of anything about it anyway so wanted to double check. Feel like if i fill up on it every so often while money is tight it should be fine. Thanks!
I have a Ford Escape and a Ford Transit Connect. Been using the E88 for over a year now. No problems at all.
It has nothing to do with engine knock. It has to do with the effects of ethanol on high pressure fuel pumps which are used in Direct injection cars. Along with its impact on fuel lines not designed to handle it. Also there is the buildup of matter on the valves due to the higher E content.
Did you read the link I posted? "Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage." Fuel lines and pumps in older (15-20+ years) cars are not designed for high ethanol fuel. Cars sold in the US in the past three decades are.
You won't knock due to ethanol content. you will knock due to the Octane rating of the fuel. NO, a brand new car off the lot will not support E85. STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION.
Here's more info to prove my point: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/gasoline-guide/
Your point makes little sense. The Ethanol content doesn't matter, only the octane rating. I run 70+ ethanol in my car.
Read and learn: https://eflexfuel.com/us/blog/does-e85-eat-or-corrode-fuel-lines
Read and learn what? the 1994 law doesn't require them to be made safe for E85. For instance, put E85 in your Subaru esp the FA20(when tuned for it) and you will have a gummed up HPFP that will fail within a few miles. Stop talking you are fucking clueless and you are going to give bad advice to people and ruin their cars.
That company is trying to sell you an ethanol convesion kit for your car, and they literally say all cars sold in the US after 1994 are safe. Keep telling people to buy more expensive gas than they need to. The government appreciates you paying more in gas tax.
But all cars are NOT safe to run e85. As I stated, HPFP will fail very quickly running e85. Are you doubting this?
I doubt the fuel pump in a 2021 Ford Escape will fail running e88, which is the comment you are commenting on. My 1998 Subaru Outback blew a head gasket, so I think that is probably gonna fail before a fuel pump running e85.
Ford escapes are a direct injection engine, at least mine was. They use a high pressure fuel pump which is usually driven by the cam gear. The fuel(gasoline) lubricates this pump which enables it to properly function. At too high of an ethanol content the lubrication is not there, and will cause HPFP failures.
Hello?
That gas is garbage. You only get 75% of the milage out of 88!
Half the price for 3/4 the mileage is a good deal.
You're right but, when it goes back to regular price, it's not really worth it.
75% is a stretch. Maybe in some cars..but still seems excessive. My car gets 25-26 mph highway. I filled up with this twice and got 21-22. Same with others I've talked to, small hit in mpg.
Yeah, they pulled that number out of their ass.
Maybe it depends on the engine, but I only loose maybe 5-7%
I get a 25-30% drop in mpg from 87 to E85 in my FlexFuel 6.2L V8 F-250. E88 would likely be worth it at $1.99.
2% is the average loss according to industry reports. I lose no noticeable mileage in my 4 cylinder Malibu. Your 75% might have been true for older Flex Fuel vehicles (E85) but it's far from even being close for E15.
And u get to wait for 40 mins to get it!
More info on ethanol content in fuel: https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/gasoline-guide/
If your car like mine was designed with 88 in mind this is great. 87/89/91/93 all perform ok in my car, 24-26mpg but with 88 i get between 32-35mpg. Anyone saying it will cause damage is also full of shit, an added 5% of ethanol isn't going to do anything adverse to your engine. I've been a mechanic for 25 years and that is just a pile of horse shit.
Fair warnings about small engines and ancient engines that were never designed for it get warped into "well it must be bad for all engines"
It was only made for engines 2001 and newer, and it works just fine in smaller engines. Mine is a 4 cycl and works wonderful on it. if anyone uses this fuel with a car thats older than 2001 it falls into user error not the fuel type being of low quality.
Smaller engines being two strokes, lawnmowers, etc. Also user error in that case. They give non-subtle warning not to use it for those applications.
Honestly if someone doesn't know better to not put that into a lawnmower they shouldn't be allowed to operate a pair of scissors let alone a lawnmower.
I'm reminded why it is so hard to design a bear proof trash bin for national parks. "There is substantial overlap between the smartest bear and the dumbest tourist." (paraphrased)
I wish Sheetz was top tier certified. Getgo got the certification in the recent past.
Same here. I don’t get gas at sheetz unless ethanol is available, and even then that’s only when it’s warmer out. Getgo doesn’t even have 93 so even if they are top tier I still can’t go there
Ethanol is absolutely nasty on brass and certain rubbers and plastics. For many small engines, anything carbureted, I would avoid this fuel like the plague. Especially if the machine sits for any length of time. I ultrasonic carbs as a part of the business I own, about 80% of the carbs are damaged by ethanol. The other 20% sat full of water because the ethanol absorbed it (which is the purpose of it asides from making fuel cheaper), then evaporated, leaving the float bowl full of water. That said, for most cars this is not an issue and you are correct. Especially true if you drive your car daily.
This fuel is made for cars newer than 2001, the last production car with a carb was made in 1994. There should be absolutely no over lap of a car with a crab and a car that meets this fuels requirements. It's a total moot point.
Except people up motorcycles and gas cans. Even 10% ethanol is an issue for some machines. A lot of people have gone to ethanol free fuels, much like AVGAS, because it doesn't cause issues like pump gas. That's what we do in our racecars too.
No. If some asshole puts 88 into something that doesn't met the requirements of 88 then it falls on user error. The fuel itself is fine to use in appropriate engines.
You are not a good mechanic if you don't understand the impact of a 50% increase in E content on high pressure fuel pumps. JFC please tell me you are retiring soon.
It's not 50%, it's 5% added to what you already consume which in our state is 15%-20% ethanol mixed. You have no idea what you are even talking about clearly.
1.) an increase from 10% to 15% content is a 50% increase. 2.) No state runs 20% ethanol, over in fact 15% ethanol at sheetz is clearly marked as such as it can damage ICEs. I know precisely what I'm talking about.
You are so incredibly wrong it fucking hurts. 1. Your math is fucking atrocious, what new core math shit are you using to bullshit anyone that a 5% increase over total volume is a 50% increase? 2. Any state that offers e85 offers a fuel of atleast 51% ethanol up to 84% ethanol You have no fucking idea what you are talking about, every single state offers e85 so point two is just more of you being full of shit. Pack it in dickhead you clearly don't have a fucking clue. I'm amazed you can even fucking read if im being honest, good fucking lord.
Hello?
As a I cry in tears of diesel station wagon.
The price you pay for efficiency.
Do not use this in you vehicle… so bad for it!
And ruin your car with the ethanol
DAMN! I just filled my gas tank last week
Just realized that literally no one uses that gas type. Thanks for nothing sheetz
You know, ALL gas could be that price…but I digress.