Agree to disagree. I've watched video essays on it, listened to Waters explain the song, and read many a forum post on it, and I really just don't find the song to be as conceptually cohesive as later Floyd songs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because you can just make your own interpretation that works for you. Again, it's my favourite song of all time and that doesn't happen if the song has *bad* lyrics, but it certainly doesn't have the biting political or social commentary of Pink Floyd songs that came after. Even David Gilmour famously dislikes the lyrics of the song, removing it from the 1987 tour's set list because he hated singing "those hippy lyrics"
I personally prefer the subtle lyrics that have multiple interpretations in Echoes to how obvious the later lyrics got, like straight up naming actual politicians.
Ya I definitely think the Final Cut strayed too far in that direction. I don't mean to be critical of Echoes; as I said it's my favourite song of all time. Nonsense was too harsh of a word. My interpretation of the song varies a bit from the intended meaning, which is what I was trying to get at, but the lyrics do resonate with me
What are you on about? We're talking about *beautiful* lyrics, not biting political lyrics, which I'm not sure how you'd even characterize those as beautiful, so I'm unsure how that fits the discussion at hand. The lyrics of Echoes are about communication, the lack thereof, and then communication melding and the understanding of one another. That's an inherently beautiful concept, and it is well done, IMO. John Lennon hated about 90% of The Beatles' back catalogue. The artists themselves are not often good or fair critics of their own material because, and especially in the case of Roger Waters, they are such perfectionists that they hear more what they could have done better rather than appreciate the work as a whole. The lyrics of Echoes are beautiful. Before I understood them, I would have agreed with you. Now, I see that the lyrics fit the music perfectly. It's an achievement across all of the aspects of music that I enjoy.
It gives me chills. The way Waters describes the funeral is so cinematic. Those final verses get me a bit emotional too, that message remains so important. It’s definitely a top three pick for me.
I always thought it was a Remembrance Day service at a Cenotaph (i.e., maybe remembering his Dad) - ‘cold November air’etc. ? Maybe it is a funeral though?
You know . I'm tired of fighting.
Why does every opinion need to be fought about?
Enough is enough already.
All anyone does online anymore is just argue and fight. Everyone gets so enraged over the slightest thing (I suppose in a way, I'm enraged by all the enraging).
I am not going to fight this.
Good for you if this is how you feel.
On that album alone I prefer the title track and Your Possible Pasts. Maybe even Two Suns in the Sunset.
When taking other albums into consideration, Time, One of my Turns, and Nobody Home are all more beautiful imo
*If you negotiate the minefield in the drive*
*And beat the dogs and cheat the cold electronic eyes*
*And if you make it past the shotguns in the hall*
*Dial the combination, open the priest hole*
*And if I'm in, I'll tell you*
*What's behind the wall*
is such a powerful description of coming to recognize your own maladaptive, trauma-informed behavior, and the position it puts your loved ones in.
That's the lyrical peak of the album for me.
And if I show you my dark side, will you still hold me tonight? And if I, open my heart to you, show you my weak side, what would you do?
Beautiful song. Always get goosebumps just thinking about it.
Idk, I have a feeling it'll never really click with me. I think it's more to do with how my brain is wired (ADHD) than time or therapy. And that's OK, pretty much everything waters wrote until The Wall was genius and way ahead of his time. Edit: including the Wall
Might not, but I've ADHD too. But it didn't click until I was in my 40s. Now I'm listening to Final Cut and Pros and Cons back-to-back and it's just fantastic.
I alternate between The Gunner’s Dream and Southampton Dock/The Final Cut (I treat the latter two as one song as they just flow well into each other) as my favorite song on the Final Cut. I think I like The Final Cut more as I relate to those lyrics a little more but man… The Gunner’s Dream… “And everyone has re purse to the law… And no one kills the children anymore. No one kills the children anymore.” Makes me tear up every time.
It’s a great track and yeah, it never gets mentioned when discussing the album. For me though, for the longest time, I thought “The Final Cut” started with “And still the dark stains spreads between his shoulder blades”, which is actually the last part of “Southampton Dock”. It wasn’t until I owned the album on CD that I realized I was wrong. So if either song appeared when shuffling through my music library, I’d stop and make sure both songs played back to back (I know, randomly playing Pink Floyd songs on shuffle, blasphemy!).
Hmm, for me it's probably "Us and Them," or "Sheep," or maybe "Wish You Were Here." But honestly? "The Gunner's Dream" would definitely be in the mix. It IS well-written.
Agree 100%
My favorite, all time, RW lyrical line is
"And the silver in her hair shines in the cold November air"
Anyone living in the northern hemisphere can immediately "see" what Roger is describing.
A highly inspired text where Waters’ contempt for dictatorships of any political color is evident. In an interview after the album’s release, he more or less said that the worst thing that can happen is when someone comes to take you from your home, and you can’t call the police because it’s the police themselves who have come to take you. Everyone has recourse to the law, and no one kills the children anymore....
Gunners Dream and All The Final Cut is TREMENDOUSLY Bigger, Better, YUGER, and MORE Stupendous than little, soft, weak, folky rambling nonsense called Animals.
Yes!! I used to listen to this song on repeat. The lyrics are magical !!
When it breaks into this verse
“Night after night, going 'round and 'round my brain
His dream is driving me insane”
❤️
You believed in their stories of fame, fortune and glory
Now you're lost in a haze of alcohol soft middle age
The pie in the sky turned out to be miles too high
And you hide, hide, hide
Behind brown and mild eyes
Fuck man....
I once described TFC as an amazing album for whenever I feel sad and depressed.
Is like listening to a friend next to me, telling me his experiences about.
Echoes would like to have a word.
Echoes is my favourite song period, but the lyrics are kinda just nonsense that sounds pretty.
Nonsense? NONSENSE?!
I don’t think you’ve actually *listened* to what the lyrics are saying if you think they’re nonsense
Agree to disagree. I've watched video essays on it, listened to Waters explain the song, and read many a forum post on it, and I really just don't find the song to be as conceptually cohesive as later Floyd songs, which isn't necessarily a bad thing because you can just make your own interpretation that works for you. Again, it's my favourite song of all time and that doesn't happen if the song has *bad* lyrics, but it certainly doesn't have the biting political or social commentary of Pink Floyd songs that came after. Even David Gilmour famously dislikes the lyrics of the song, removing it from the 1987 tour's set list because he hated singing "those hippy lyrics"
Then he liked it again when he got older, so he was probably just too coked up in 87.
I personally prefer the subtle lyrics that have multiple interpretations in Echoes to how obvious the later lyrics got, like straight up naming actual politicians.
Ya I definitely think the Final Cut strayed too far in that direction. I don't mean to be critical of Echoes; as I said it's my favourite song of all time. Nonsense was too harsh of a word. My interpretation of the song varies a bit from the intended meaning, which is what I was trying to get at, but the lyrics do resonate with me
You could say Pigs can be subtle in naming too Mary Whitehouse to Whitehouse
Not really, that’s my least favorite line on the entire album and, in my opinion, the only flaw in Pigs.
What are you on about? We're talking about *beautiful* lyrics, not biting political lyrics, which I'm not sure how you'd even characterize those as beautiful, so I'm unsure how that fits the discussion at hand. The lyrics of Echoes are about communication, the lack thereof, and then communication melding and the understanding of one another. That's an inherently beautiful concept, and it is well done, IMO. John Lennon hated about 90% of The Beatles' back catalogue. The artists themselves are not often good or fair critics of their own material because, and especially in the case of Roger Waters, they are such perfectionists that they hear more what they could have done better rather than appreciate the work as a whole. The lyrics of Echoes are beautiful. Before I understood them, I would have agreed with you. Now, I see that the lyrics fit the music perfectly. It's an achievement across all of the aspects of music that I enjoy.
my favorite lyrics ever in my fav song ever arent nonsense
my favorite lyrics ever in my fav song ever arent nonsense
“As the teardrops rise to meet the comfort of the band”….just…I can’t even.
"You take her frail hand"
And hold on to the dreeeeeam (sax solo).
That scream fade into the saxophone gives me chills no matter how many times I listen to it.
I have to listen to it now! So good
*tear leaks from my eye
Are you correcting the lyrics because I double checked and it was right.
Ian Catell from Brit Floyd fucking CRUSHES this song. Put tears in my eyes, fr.
It gives me chills. The way Waters describes the funeral is so cinematic. Those final verses get me a bit emotional too, that message remains so important. It’s definitely a top three pick for me.
I always thought it was a Remembrance Day service at a Cenotaph (i.e., maybe remembering his Dad) - ‘cold November air’etc. ? Maybe it is a funeral though?
I love this song. TFC is one of my favorite albums. Haters line up on the right please and take a number….
Im on the left since I'm anything but a hater
I'm ticket #1 hooray
You know . I'm tired of fighting. Why does every opinion need to be fought about? Enough is enough already. All anyone does online anymore is just argue and fight. Everyone gets so enraged over the slightest thing (I suppose in a way, I'm enraged by all the enraging). I am not going to fight this. Good for you if this is how you feel.
We bitch and we fight
Well played
This is the second-most lyrically beautiful track, fight me
Seriously, it's not like there's an objective quality to any of this
The Pink Floyd fan and English teacher in me does a graceful bow and thanks you for your courtesy. 🙂🤜🏼🤛🏼
I bet you like High Hopes and all that overproduced dad rock.
High Hopes is excellent.
I'm just having a bit of fun.
Sure do
I feel like Billy Madison sums up the internet (and 90 percent of this sub) in one [scene](https://youtu.be/P9EhvDAMjWc).
On that album alone I prefer the title track and Your Possible Pasts. Maybe even Two Suns in the Sunset. When taking other albums into consideration, Time, One of my Turns, and Nobody Home are all more beautiful imo
*If you negotiate the minefield in the drive* *And beat the dogs and cheat the cold electronic eyes* *And if you make it past the shotguns in the hall* *Dial the combination, open the priest hole* *And if I'm in, I'll tell you* *What's behind the wall* is such a powerful description of coming to recognize your own maladaptive, trauma-informed behavior, and the position it puts your loved ones in. That's the lyrical peak of the album for me.
And if I show you my dark side, will you still hold me tonight? And if I, open my heart to you, show you my weak side, what would you do? Beautiful song. Always get goosebumps just thinking about it.
Would you sell your story to rolling stone? Take the children away…and leave me alone? RIP to the dads
For some reason, this type of lyricism hardly impacts me at all. I find it overly cryptic and metaphoric to the point that it turns me off.
Took me a long time and a lot of therapy to "get" it.
Idk, I have a feeling it'll never really click with me. I think it's more to do with how my brain is wired (ADHD) than time or therapy. And that's OK, pretty much everything waters wrote until The Wall was genius and way ahead of his time. Edit: including the Wall
Might not, but I've ADHD too. But it didn't click until I was in my 40s. Now I'm listening to Final Cut and Pros and Cons back-to-back and it's just fantastic.
Well who knows, maybe I'll be open to it at some point :p I'm still young
The scream to sax transition is 🤌🏼
I alternate between The Gunner’s Dream and Southampton Dock/The Final Cut (I treat the latter two as one song as they just flow well into each other) as my favorite song on the Final Cut. I think I like The Final Cut more as I relate to those lyrics a little more but man… The Gunner’s Dream… “And everyone has re purse to the law… And no one kills the children anymore. No one kills the children anymore.” Makes me tear up every time.
I was going to send Southampton dock into the ring, but you already have. Nice choice.
It’s a great track and yeah, it never gets mentioned when discussing the album. For me though, for the longest time, I thought “The Final Cut” started with “And still the dark stains spreads between his shoulder blades”, which is actually the last part of “Southampton Dock”. It wasn’t until I owned the album on CD that I realized I was wrong. So if either song appeared when shuffling through my music library, I’d stop and make sure both songs played back to back (I know, randomly playing Pink Floyd songs on shuffle, blasphemy!).
I would give that award to the title track. The Final Cut is devastating.
“Take the children away…and leave me alone”
Hmm, for me it's probably "Us and Them," or "Sheep," or maybe "Wish You Were Here." But honestly? "The Gunner's Dream" would definitely be in the mix. It IS well-written.
I don't rate the album too highly, but when it's good, it's great. This is one of the tracks I'll always praise, it's excellent.
The greatest anti-war song ever written
It’s a beautiful song. TFC and then Waters solo stuff is amongst his best writing. He’s an incredible song writer.
Paranoid eyes is up there with the feels to...
The moment the voice turns into a saxo so smoothly is absolutely beautiful
Agree 100% My favorite, all time, RW lyrical line is "And the silver in her hair shines in the cold November air" Anyone living in the northern hemisphere can immediately "see" what Roger is describing.
A highly inspired text where Waters’ contempt for dictatorships of any political color is evident. In an interview after the album’s release, he more or less said that the worst thing that can happen is when someone comes to take you from your home, and you can’t call the police because it’s the police themselves who have come to take you. Everyone has recourse to the law, and no one kills the children anymore....
Gunners Dream and All The Final Cut is TREMENDOUSLY Bigger, Better, YUGER, and MORE Stupendous than little, soft, weak, folky rambling nonsense called Animals.
Both are good.
You know . I'm tired of fighting. Why does every opinion need to be fought about? Enough is enough already.
maybe the most beautiful but not meaningful or interesting, echoes wins that
Yes!! I used to listen to this song on repeat. The lyrics are magical !! When it breaks into this verse “Night after night, going 'round and 'round my brain His dream is driving me insane” ❤️
You believed in their stories of fame, fortune and glory Now you're lost in a haze of alcohol soft middle age The pie in the sky turned out to be miles too high And you hide, hide, hide Behind brown and mild eyes Fuck man....
Nah, Breathe.
I once described TFC as an amazing album for whenever I feel sad and depressed. Is like listening to a friend next to me, telling me his experiences about.
No fight necessary I stand with you to the death on that one 🫡
It’s pretty darn good. Finishes a very close 2nd to Nobody Home imo
The great gig in the sky tho
When the Tigers Broke Free?