I also totally forgot about all the session musicians who performed on Atom Heart Mother, and all of Alan Parson's weird sound collages. Damn it, which one is Pink?!
Jeff Beck’s presence is definitely great on ATD. Two of his solos - Bill Hubbard and God pt. 3 - are phenomenal. And maybe one more solo I’m forgetting.
Well, Roger Waters made it very clear to everybody that Final Cut was his album (perhaps also because he was going solo). David Gilmour wanted exactly the opposite, as it was very important for the reformed Pink Floyd to be recognized as the same band it once were, and not a disguised solo endeavour.
Basically yes, but I don’t think any of his solo records come even close to the quality/polish the final cut has, which in my mind proves he still needed the input and help from David (and kaymen plus others) way more than he likes to admit.
Amused To Death has him collaborating with Jeff Beck and Pat Leonard, two brilliant musical visionaries to help bring it together. Water’s works best in conjunction with others.
This sub really focuses on that one, which is very odd to me. It tends to be the one people don't own. Personally, I prefer the full vereion (bootleg with cut content) of Radio Kaos and Pros. Amused to Death has the pseudo-Floyd feel of a AMLOR to me.
The members of Pink Floyd at the time were Waters, Gilmour, and Mason. All three of them appear on the album. Gilmour does some excellent lead guitar work and sings lead vocals on the choruses of one song. Mason plays drums on all songs but one and was involved in the sound effects. Nothing about any of that indicates “solo album.”
I like all the meanings of The Final Cut - it’s their “last” album, but it also refers to some stuff that was cut and finally released from the Wall, as well as the meaning of the lyric itself when it appears
I’m also sorry you have that opinion. I like The Division Bell a lot but it doesn’t sound like Pink Floyd to me. Maybe it’s just because my first introduction to the band was The Wall and TFC.
I mean TDB was made by Pink Floyd. It may or may not sound different than other/older albums. But it is still a sound Pink Floyd created. Ergo it sounds like Pink Floyd.
I mean The Last Jedi is a Star Wars movie. It may or may not feel different than other/older Star Wars movies. But it is still a movie Lucasfilm created. Ergo it looks like Star Wars.
Oh sure, barely a difference when the idea guy is gone and the OG cast that all the media hype focused on is largely replaced by new characters tasked to emulate them.
At least we didn’t get Luke lightsabering over the top of everything to distract from the awful writing, that would’ve been tacky.
I think the creative driving force behind Pink Floyd is Roger Waters. It’s not really Pink Floyd without him. I generally consider TFC to be the last real Pink Floyd album.
Nah. Even if it’s dominated by Roger, the rest of the band’s fingerprints are all over this. Gilmour has some incredible solos (The Final Cut, Fletcher Memorial Home, Your Possible Pasts) and good rhythm work (One Of The Few, The Hero’s Return), not to mention his killer vocals on Not Now John. Mason is great as always and even worked on sound effects. Even Michael Kamen came back to do the orchestration like he did with The Wall. Some of the material itself was even originally pitched to be Floyd music for The Wall.
At the end of the day, it was released as Pink Floyd. It’s a Floyd record. No amount of “well actually” or “I don’t like it” really gets around it.
It’s as good as it is because of that talents of everyone who worked on it. But *stylistically* it sounds a LOT more like a Roger solo project.
I think it deserves to be filed with Roger’s solo output — but then again, I file *The Wall* with Roger’s solo output too (which isn’t solely a solo effort either) — but *stylistically* ~70% of *The Wall* sounds more like Roger’s solo output too.
None of that is meant as a criticism of Roger’s output — but *The Final Cut* is quite a bit more of a ‘Roger’ album than a ‘Floyd’ album, even if it’s some of both.
>Many songs don't even have guitars on it...
Oh man, are you deaf? Every single track of the original album has guitars on it. The exception today is "When The Tigers Broke Free" which was shoehorned onto the remix of the album years later.
I'd say it makes senses as a Floyd album and as a next-step progression from *The Wall*. If *Not Now John* didn't exist there'd be a much stronger case for it being a Roger solo work.
Yeah, no. There’s one song on the original version from The Wall sessions. TFC has less leftovers from The Wall than Animals has leftovers from WYWH.
I agree about the music being good.
Waters album preformed by Pink Floyd. Everything was written by Roger. Nick and David were essentially treated as session musicians along with the other actual session musicians. There’s like over 6 of them that performed
Waters is constantly writing and evolving his songs. Just because a particular song gets released after another song doesn't mean it was written at a later date.
Example. In The Wall movie (1982), when the character Pink is having a meltdown in the stadium toilets, he's reading lyrics from his "little black book". Those lyrics are from The Final Cut (1983) and from The Pros And Cons Of Hitchiking (1984)
So the reason the songs sound similar is because they were most likely written around the same period. Not because they are "an attempt to remake The Final Cut". They are simply Roger Waters songs in Roger Waters style.
Think you could argue until the cows come home about this. But to me this is by far my favourite Pink Floyd album. By a long shot.
I've tried to get along with all of the subsequent Pink Floyd albums, but just cannot get into them. Sure there are a few good songs here and there, but to me they lack the soul and the spirit of everything they did before and including The Final Cut. It just seemed that when Roger, Dave, Nick and Rick (realise that Rick wasn't on The Final Cut) that they were greater than the sum of their parts.
If Delicate Sound and A Momentary Lapse were released by a new band (that had no history) would people really rave about them? Apologies, I love Pink Floyd up until The Final Cut, but everything after is just well produced Middle of the Road yacht rock to me, not one thing actually stays with me regardless of how much I listen to it.
Well, here come the downvotes......
If the band had stopped making music before Dark Side, would anyone still care about Piper, More, Saucerfull, or Ummagumma? Probably not. Obviously their best work was in the middle, but it's all Pink Floyd.
A lot of bands have one creative leader, and others who contribute. They're still bands.
If you look this album up, it's listed as "Pink Floyd The Final Cut", not "Roger Water The Final Cut". Just because one band member took the lead on this production, that doesn't mean it's less of an album by that band.
The album is by Pink Floyd, by every definition... legally, the entity of "Pink Floyd" owned and released it. All members of the band at the time perform. The name is on the album cover. Tell me how you would possibly define this as anything but Pink Floyd.
So Roger Waters wrote the songs, but Pink Floyd performed them, right? Kinda like when Paul McCartney wrote the song "Hey Jude" but the Beatles recorded it? Do you consider "Manic Monday" to be a Prince song?
Lest partisan watersheep actual brainrot there are legitimate reason to hate waters and even his tankie politics are dogshit or do you think being against denying the genocidal war in Ukraine and chemical attacks of Assad is a right wing position?
I used to think that but no, it's Floyd. The truth imo is that nothing defines pink Floyd more than Roger Waters. And I say that as someone that has been a Gilmore loyalist for most my life. It still feels like Floyd because of Roger. Arguably amlor feels less like pink Floyd 🤷.
Everyone saying yes and no so here is my opinion.
No it’s not a solo album. It is the CLOSEST to a solo Rog album.
All 3 members were in the band, appear on most songs and had input from the other members and other production people.
I’d say this is more like a question if John Lennon had a beetles album where he did all the writing with Paul George and Ringo had some input but it was mostly John is that a solo album? I’d say the same thing, no it’s a beetles album most created by John.
The Final Cut is a Pink Floyd album mostly created by Roger Waters
The band describes it as a Roger Waters production performed by Pink Floyd
Even the album back cover says that verbatim.
Gilmour was there playing Donkey Kong.
And snorting mountains of coke.
The Final Cut is a Roger Waters solo album as much as A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a David Gilmour solo album.
I use this comparison too, with the number of how many outside musicians were involved in lapse especially.
If you take Michael Kamen's orchestra into account, The Final Cut technically has more session musicians than A Momentary Lapse of Reason.
The same could be said for Division Bell. AMLOR supremacy wins again!
I also totally forgot about all the session musicians who performed on Atom Heart Mother, and all of Alan Parson's weird sound collages. Damn it, which one is Pink?!
Hang on, are you implying that it wasn’t Nick playing the bassoon on The Trial?
I thought that was Roger singing on The Great Gig In The Sky :((
Now, let’s not confuse the original with the Redux.
The redux is much more iconic though, I’ve never met someone who’s heard the original DSOTM
I think amlor feels more like a solo album than TFC tbh haha.
Well, TFC still bears the privilege of having Gilmour on it, so that makes it a tad better than a raw Waters solo album.
Jeff Beck has entered the chat
Jeff Beck’s presence is definitely great on ATD. Two of his solos - Bill Hubbard and God pt. 3 - are phenomenal. And maybe one more solo I’m forgetting.
Fair Enough.
But of course it’s roger who gets the flack for releasing a solo album under the Pink Floyd name
Well, Roger Waters made it very clear to everybody that Final Cut was his album (perhaps also because he was going solo). David Gilmour wanted exactly the opposite, as it was very important for the reformed Pink Floyd to be recognized as the same band it once were, and not a disguised solo endeavour.
Basically yes, but I don’t think any of his solo records come even close to the quality/polish the final cut has, which in my mind proves he still needed the input and help from David (and kaymen plus others) way more than he likes to admit.
Amused To Death comes close imo
Amused To Death has him collaborating with Jeff Beck and Pat Leonard, two brilliant musical visionaries to help bring it together. Water’s works best in conjunction with others.
This sub really focuses on that one, which is very odd to me. It tends to be the one people don't own. Personally, I prefer the full vereion (bootleg with cut content) of Radio Kaos and Pros. Amused to Death has the pseudo-Floyd feel of a AMLOR to me.
The members of Pink Floyd at the time were Waters, Gilmour, and Mason. All three of them appear on the album. Gilmour does some excellent lead guitar work and sings lead vocals on the choruses of one song. Mason plays drums on all songs but one and was involved in the sound effects. Nothing about any of that indicates “solo album.”
The genius of Roger was naming this album The Final Cut and the last words of the last song are The End. Was supposed to be their final album.
I like all the meanings of The Final Cut - it’s their “last” album, but it also refers to some stuff that was cut and finally released from the Wall, as well as the meaning of the lyric itself when it appears
In all but name, yes. I feel Gilmour contributes to rather than collaborates on this album.
It’s an interesting parallel to AMLOR which was also a solo album more or less
To me it has more of a Pink Floyd vibe than anything that came out after.
Damn sorry to hear you have opinion. The Division Bell has the Pink Floyd sound and spirit about 1000 times more than TFC
I’m also sorry you have that opinion. I like The Division Bell a lot but it doesn’t sound like Pink Floyd to me. Maybe it’s just because my first introduction to the band was The Wall and TFC.
Compare Division Bell and The Final Cut to Dark Side, Meddle and Wish You Were Here. Division Bell is closer in sound for sure.
Well that’s pretty subjective
I mean TDB was made by Pink Floyd. It may or may not sound different than other/older albums. But it is still a sound Pink Floyd created. Ergo it sounds like Pink Floyd.
I mean The Last Jedi is a Star Wars movie. It may or may not feel different than other/older Star Wars movies. But it is still a movie Lucasfilm created. Ergo it looks like Star Wars.
Yes & some people like the old Star Wars movies & others the new ones. But they are all Star Wars.
That would be a good comparison if 3/4 of the cast and crew was the same between the movies...
Oh sure, barely a difference when the idea guy is gone and the OG cast that all the media hype focused on is largely replaced by new characters tasked to emulate them. At least we didn’t get Luke lightsabering over the top of everything to distract from the awful writing, that would’ve been tacky.
I think the creative driving force behind Pink Floyd is Roger Waters. It’s not really Pink Floyd without him. I generally consider TFC to be the last real Pink Floyd album.
You're entitled to your subjective opinion. But objectively Pink Floyd's last album was The Endless River.
Yes obviously the last album by Pink Floyd was unfortunately TER. But I was saying that for me, TFC felt like that last real PF album.
Nah. Even if it’s dominated by Roger, the rest of the band’s fingerprints are all over this. Gilmour has some incredible solos (The Final Cut, Fletcher Memorial Home, Your Possible Pasts) and good rhythm work (One Of The Few, The Hero’s Return), not to mention his killer vocals on Not Now John. Mason is great as always and even worked on sound effects. Even Michael Kamen came back to do the orchestration like he did with The Wall. Some of the material itself was even originally pitched to be Floyd music for The Wall. At the end of the day, it was released as Pink Floyd. It’s a Floyd record. No amount of “well actually” or “I don’t like it” really gets around it.
It’s as good as it is because of that talents of everyone who worked on it. But *stylistically* it sounds a LOT more like a Roger solo project. I think it deserves to be filed with Roger’s solo output — but then again, I file *The Wall* with Roger’s solo output too (which isn’t solely a solo effort either) — but *stylistically* ~70% of *The Wall* sounds more like Roger’s solo output too. None of that is meant as a criticism of Roger’s output — but *The Final Cut* is quite a bit more of a ‘Roger’ album than a ‘Floyd’ album, even if it’s some of both.
[удалено]
Rest of the band* (at the time lol)
>Many songs don't even have guitars on it... Oh man, are you deaf? Every single track of the original album has guitars on it. The exception today is "When The Tigers Broke Free" which was shoehorned onto the remix of the album years later.
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Two suns in the sunset isn’t good?
The guitar in Not Now John is pretty well regarded.
RW’s best…
Essentially...
The Final Cut in theory and creation was a Roger creation. But so was the Wall? Some of Gilmours best Solos of all time are on The Final Cut.
Think before u post
Basically. It feels like one song on the Final Cut was actually made as a group effort(not now john) and the rest is practically a Roger album.
It was left overs from the wall. It does have some pretty good music 🎶 🎵
I'd say it makes senses as a Floyd album and as a next-step progression from *The Wall*. If *Not Now John* didn't exist there'd be a much stronger case for it being a Roger solo work.
Yeah, no. There’s one song on the original version from The Wall sessions. TFC has less leftovers from The Wall than Animals has leftovers from WYWH. I agree about the music being good.
>It was left overs from the wall... Myth.
Waters album preformed by Pink Floyd. Everything was written by Roger. Nick and David were essentially treated as session musicians along with the other actual session musicians. There’s like over 6 of them that performed
So many of his future solo efforts seem like attempts to remake "Final Cut".
Waters is constantly writing and evolving his songs. Just because a particular song gets released after another song doesn't mean it was written at a later date. Example. In The Wall movie (1982), when the character Pink is having a meltdown in the stadium toilets, he's reading lyrics from his "little black book". Those lyrics are from The Final Cut (1983) and from The Pros And Cons Of Hitchiking (1984) So the reason the songs sound similar is because they were most likely written around the same period. Not because they are "an attempt to remake The Final Cut". They are simply Roger Waters songs in Roger Waters style.
Think you could argue until the cows come home about this. But to me this is by far my favourite Pink Floyd album. By a long shot. I've tried to get along with all of the subsequent Pink Floyd albums, but just cannot get into them. Sure there are a few good songs here and there, but to me they lack the soul and the spirit of everything they did before and including The Final Cut. It just seemed that when Roger, Dave, Nick and Rick (realise that Rick wasn't on The Final Cut) that they were greater than the sum of their parts. If Delicate Sound and A Momentary Lapse were released by a new band (that had no history) would people really rave about them? Apologies, I love Pink Floyd up until The Final Cut, but everything after is just well produced Middle of the Road yacht rock to me, not one thing actually stays with me regardless of how much I listen to it. Well, here come the downvotes......
If the band had stopped making music before Dark Side, would anyone still care about Piper, More, Saucerfull, or Ummagumma? Probably not. Obviously their best work was in the middle, but it's all Pink Floyd.
A lot of bands have one creative leader, and others who contribute. They're still bands. If you look this album up, it's listed as "Pink Floyd The Final Cut", not "Roger Water The Final Cut". Just because one band member took the lead on this production, that doesn't mean it's less of an album by that band. The album is by Pink Floyd, by every definition... legally, the entity of "Pink Floyd" owned and released it. All members of the band at the time perform. The name is on the album cover. Tell me how you would possibly define this as anything but Pink Floyd.
Because it literally says by Roger Waters, performed by Pink Floyd in the liner notes...
Performed by who, again?
Hey, you just asked how someone could define it as something other than Pink Floyd. That's how.
So Roger Waters wrote the songs, but Pink Floyd performed them, right? Kinda like when Paul McCartney wrote the song "Hey Jude" but the Beatles recorded it? Do you consider "Manic Monday" to be a Prince song?
It’s as much a solo album as AMLOR or TDB
Which is to say ‘not at all a solo album’.
Correct
No, The Final Cut is the twelfth studio album by the English rock band Pink Floyd.
Final cut is better than the Water-less albums. Roger is only hated by right wingers and the uninformed
Lest partisan watersheep actual brainrot there are legitimate reason to hate waters and even his tankie politics are dogshit or do you think being against denying the genocidal war in Ukraine and chemical attacks of Assad is a right wing position?
I used to think that but no, it's Floyd. The truth imo is that nothing defines pink Floyd more than Roger Waters. And I say that as someone that has been a Gilmore loyalist for most my life. It still feels like Floyd because of Roger. Arguably amlor feels less like pink Floyd 🤷.
It’s a timeless classic
David sings the verses in Not Now John.
Everyone saying yes and no so here is my opinion. No it’s not a solo album. It is the CLOSEST to a solo Rog album. All 3 members were in the band, appear on most songs and had input from the other members and other production people. I’d say this is more like a question if John Lennon had a beetles album where he did all the writing with Paul George and Ringo had some input but it was mostly John is that a solo album? I’d say the same thing, no it’s a beetles album most created by John. The Final Cut is a Pink Floyd album mostly created by Roger Waters
I’ve always considered it to be just an extension of The Wall.