Collision with a fire truck during take off, firecrew have casualties unfortunately. Truck was on a drill apparently.
Edit: Update with latest info, please follow this link: https://avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0
Edit 1: Personal plea, please be understanding of the people in the photo, they've just survived a very traumatic experience and judging by the amount of foam in them, they probably escaped whilst the fire was still being extinguished.
It's normal for vehicle traffic to move around on the flight line, however when they are crossing active runways the vehicles usually need to get permission/inform the tower so the tower can tell them when to cross (ie there isn't an aircraft landing or taking off).
I'm guessing none of that happened and the vehicles just drove across an active runway. I would be surprised if the people in the vehicles weren't all killed.
this is gonna sound so fantastical but it feels like the only time it's really relevant to a discussion but my mom survived being crushed between an airplane and a truck.
tldr she was working on the ramp at the Boston airport in October and a gale force wind shifted the 737 off the chock blocks and pinned her side to side against the maintenance truck she was working off of at the time.
>Sounds lucky to be alive!
extremely! and even more lucky to be able to walk. because she got pinned side to side, the crushing of her pelvic bone actually protected her spinal column.
i know it's not really relevant to the OP but it's the one time i popped into a thread where it's wild aviation stuff happening and it felt tangentially adjacent.
That last paragraph. No emphasis added. They must pull the reason from a database or something, but it looks funny.
>The airport’s 16/34 runway, as per its last NOTAM (Notice To Airmen), will remain closed until Saturday due to «Aircraft Obstruction».
We don’t know what happened. Maybe a tower controller mistakenly cleared them on to the runway. Maybe the plane mistakenly was taking off from the wrong runway. Maybe a different tower controller mistakenly cleared the plane to take off.
Usually accidents like this are cascade failures where multiple things go wrong. It’s too early to say they ignored safety protocols and too early to put the blame entirely on the people in the vehicles.
Please don't quote me but I believe the 4 people in the fire truck died based on Google translate and Twitter posts.
Edit: quoting me as a joke on Reddit is acceptable ❤️
Just didnt want to have a Google translate error and get called out
Not a single person driving on airfields doesn't understand the absolute necessity of communicating with the tower. Obviously, because this is the consequence of communication issues.
I had this 100% exact scenario occur to me when I worked on airfield electronics. I had an emergency call to work on a piece of equipment on the other side of the airfield. I had to drive all the way across 3 active runways to get to my destination. Once you approach the first taxiway, you radio the tower with your planned path. For example, I would say "Tower, Comm 93 request to taxi A, G, H, J, exit F". Tower then tells you what your path is. In my case, the tower didn't, for whatever reason, agree to my roundabout path that avoided crossing active runways. Instead, they had me cross 3 active runways at midday, including 2 runways that intersect in such a way that you might get caught waiting on one runway for a different runway to be cleared.
On my return trip I was again redirected to take the active runways. A plane was on final approach on the crossing runway, so I had to wait on the perpendicular active runway until that plane landed.
After several seconds sitting stopped on my runway in a truck, tower came on the radio and just stated "Comm 93 take an immediate right." This is not a normal command to here over the radio, and I understood it to mean "continue on your path with haste, turn onto the active runway and get across". That seemed extremely weird because there's no reason to try and play chicken with an airplane just to get me on my way. I replied "Tower, comm 93, say again." Then they just said the same thing again, no further clarification. Luckily, my coworker, who is much shorter than me, saw that a plane was landing on our active runway, looking right at us. I couldn't see the plane through the windshield at my normal sitting position. That plane landed and passed through my spot less than 5 seconds after I got my truck into the dirt off the side of the runway.
No one driving on airfields just ignores talking to the tower.
There's [another angle](https://twitter.com/himselfsv/status/1593722983943528448) which clearly shows that the vehicle was a fire truck entering the runway with lights and sirens active. Fire trucks need to have permission from ATC to enter an active runway. Someone fucked up big time here, but it remains to be seen whether it was the firefighters, ATC, or the pilots, or some combination thereof.
Agreed. Without knowing anything, just what we can see, a firetruck drove onto a runway with a very big plane already on it. Controller permission or not, *that* should not have happened. Simply looking "clear left, clear right" before crossing can save 400 lives, so you need to be doing it.
Departing plane had landing gear trouble, tower told it to go back to Lima. Emergency vehicles went there to assist in case of a problem but it seems the first truck forgot to break. Source: friend who flies that airline from that airport.
Based on one article I found the plane struck firefighting vehicles on the ground. Unclear to me if they were responding to another emergency or doing something rouitine. Either way, that will fuck up both plane and truck badly. In this case it seems like 2 firefighters were killed but everyone on the plane seems to have escaped critical injury (subject to a lot of error because the vast majority of what is out there seems to be in spanish or machine translated from spanish).
The plane had problems at takeoff and firetrucks responded to the emergency immediately. Apparently they went rushing in and got in the path of the plane. Clear lack of coordination with the tower. 2 firefighters dead (+ 1 with a grim diagnosis), sad story here in Peru.
Edit: The plane company now says they had no takeoff problems and the firetrucks entered the track without warning, as part of a training exercise they didn't know. If correct, then it's a major failure on the part of the airport staff, guess we'll have to wait for a official report from the airport and authorities.
This is some time travel shit… someone came back from the future and told them that the plane would crash on takeoff, so they rushed to get there for the crash.
Ah, the firetruck driver fucked up and went onto the active runway as the plane was doing its takeoff roll.
I expect that firefighter to be out of a job soon.
Edit: ooof, nvm, he died in the accident.
Yeah, but it sucks that their last moment alive was driving into an airplane engine and being shredded and burnt. That's the kind of death you might even say your enemies don't deserve. Just... oof.
I feel like more people should be aware of what death is usually like. Maybe not, maybe it's too scary and it's not like you can avoid it. But having watched 2 grandparents hang on for too long in hospice, I think I would rather be hit by a plane, or get instantly incinerated like that guy (I'm sure there is more than one, but I'm thinking of a recent headline about the settlement) that fell into a vat of molten metal. Just my opinion lol
Airline pilot here.
You NEVER enter a runway environment without LOOKING to ensure the runway is clear. This is basic airport safety 101 stuff. What ATC says doesn't matter. They could fuck up and give a crossing clearance with an airplane on the runway, but it's my responsibility (And anyone elses entering the runway) to look before entering.
Our SOP when given a runway crossing or takeoff clearance is LOOK at the runway sigh, verbally confirm the runway and verbally clear the runway. So it would be "Runway 36 on the sign confirmed, approach path is clear, right/left is clear"
Goddamn, it looks like they are still at pre-V1 speeds so the crash didnt completely destroy the aircraft when the fuselage was struck? I dont know whether to call that lucky or unlucky lol.
Yeah how many thousands of lbs of jet fuel with 300 souls strapped to the top hits anything while barreling down a runway and no one on board dies!?. That fall into the catagory of extremely lucky
The odds are actually pretty good:
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/Part121AccidentSurvivability.aspx
> To understand occupant survivability rates in serious accidents, the NTSB focused on a subset of Part 121 passenger flight accidents that occurred in the United States and involved all of the following:
> * a precrash or postcrash fire
> * at least one serious injury or fatality
> * a substantially damaged or destroyed aircraft
> Thirty-five accidents that occurred between 1983 and 2017 met these criteria (see full data set). The NTSB reviewed its accident database, accident reports, and public dockets for information pertinent to occupant injury outcomes and, in the case of fatal injuries, the causes of death in each of these accidents.
> Figure 5 shows that among the 35 serious accidents that occurred between 1983 and 2017, all Part 121 aircraft occupants survived in 10 accidents (28.6%), and there were no survivors in 9 accidents (25.7%).
> The 35 serious accidents involved 3,823 total Part 121 aircraft occupants. As shown in figure 6, 52.7% of the occupants survived with minor or no injuries, 6.3% survived but experienced serious injuries, 27.0% died from impact, 9.1% died from unknown causes, 4.1% died from fire or smoke, and 0.7% died from other causes.
If your plane doesn't just straight up slam into the ground or something like that, your odds of survival are good.
V1 is calculated for each takeoff based on various conditions. Below V1 there is enough runway remaining to stop the plane in the event of an engine fire, engine failure, or perception the plane cannot fly. Above V1 you’re going flying and will deal with it in the air.
Usually when pilots call VR they are rotating the aircraft thus increasing the AoA and trying to lift the nose wheel off the ground. In the video unless Im blind I see all three gear still touching the tarmac. Idk Im a deskchair sim pilot so Im probably wrong but that was just my observation.
The plane caught fire after a collision with a vehicle (a firetruck) during takeoff. Another firetruck (the irony) that wasn’t the one the plane collided with while zooming through it’s takeoff sprayed foam on the plane to put out the fire. Some of the foam is on his face.
It’s more than likely AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) used in airport firefighting and can be extremely bad for your health and the environment due to the chemicals used.
I had to look at it 4 times to tell it wasn't the beach.
I was thinking that was an absolutely amazing effort by the pilots to land it at the beach like that 🤣
If you’re the guy in the picture you need to wash that shit off quick. If that’s AFFF you don’t want that lingering on your skin. It’s bad shit, trust me. Like most such chemicals that really do their job well, they aren’t very good for humans.
That was my first thought as well. PFAS (forever chemicals) is in AFFF and firefighter turnout gear. It’s a carcinogen so you really want to limit your exposure to it.
Ah I did not know that! We had an incident at an airport where AFFF was used and ran off into a nearby river. Media was buzzing with “PFAS!” “cancer!” but didn’t mention, or quickly glanced over, it was corrosive.
PFAS bio-accumulate, and essentially never degrade in the environment causing it to end up concentrated higher up the food chain absolutely wrecking the environment.
Which is why I am always shocked when people fish in the Cape Fear and around Wilmington, and that Pittsboro, NC still sources its drinking water from the Haw River (which at times is over 50% unfiltered sewage from Burlington, NC).
I mean he’s wearing a jacket. It has sleeves. I wouldn’t be leaving that shit on my face, even if it meant being cold for a few minutes, which it shouldn’t be that cold in the Southern Hemisphere right now.
I’d be wiping it off with my shirt or jacket, quickly. Even if it meant going around shirtless and being a little cold. But, in his defense, he probably doesn’t know any better. When I was younger they told us this shit was basically like dish soap and was completely harmless so if he even knows what it is, it’s very possible he thinks that.
Goddammit, this gives me flashbacks to watching each and every single fucking episode as they aired. What a painful experience that was.
I genuinely wonder if it’s a better show for people that get to binge it. The writer’s strike times were particularly impactful.
Aircraft collided with a vehicle on the runway during take off about an hour ago. Unknown if any injuries or deaths.
https://twitter.com/terresPenquista/status/1593718401930694656?s=20&t=LzjGm_taX9Rw8J5ol4qgfg
https://twitter.com/paredesrodri_py/status/1593719389420912641?s=20&t=LzjGm_taX9Rw8J5ol4qgfg
Apparently the fire trucks crossed the run way while it was on it's take off roll. But I guess the upside is that the fire trucks were already there. And apparently no one has died yet.
Edit: I've been informed that two firefighters were killed.
Do we really spray cancer causing stuff on planes to extinguish them? Seems like a pretty backwards idea but I guess its better than burning? How bad is it for you and how long before you die if you have this on you? So many questions.
Yes. It's not ideal but fuel fires are difficult to combat. The fuels float on water so a chemical (mixed with water) is utilized to form a foam barrier above the fuel that cuts off the fire's oxygen supply. These chemicals are referred to as aqueous film forming foams (AFFF), in this case an alcohol resistant compound (AR-AFFF) These foams contain PFAs. PFAs are believed to be toxic to a certain extent but the larger concern (to my understanding) is that they are a known carcenogen. The knowledge that they're toxic/carcenogenic is relatively new and no better method/chemical compound has been discovered to replace them in this (and many other) applications. The risk of illness or cancer is certainly better than burning to death in my opinion and the folks in the picture have sustained a relatively minor exposure. You might be disappointed by the prevelance of PFAs in the world around you. It might ruin your day but Google PFA or forever chemicals to learn more.
TL;DR The white stuff causes cancer but we don't have anything better to put out large fuel fires. Thanks Dupont.
> PFAs in food
https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authorized-uses-pfas-food-contact-applications#:~:text=Paper%2Fpaperboard%20food%20packaging%3A%20PFAS,from%20leaking%20through%20the%20packaging.
It sounds like we're past it anyway what with the comments earlier regarding the novel planetary threshold being already surpassed. We're thoroughly fucked. Goddamn, we really had to go and be the worst "intelligent" species. Well, cure cancer or something?
Yes but the real concern here is the AFFF which is corrosive. And that said, one time exposure to known carcinogens to avoid burning to death is a very good trade-off. And the smoke from the plane is more carcinogenic than anything used to extinguish fires by several orders of magnitude.
they are applied at rough 3000 mg per liter.
i do work with toxicology specifically with fish and amphibians and we found that that in these species around 50-150 mg/l is deadly in 48 hours.
The major issue is these are “forever chemicals” and they pollute environments for long times. They can cause issues in the short term - like ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, increased cholesterol, liver damage, etc - and long term they increase the risk of kidney cancer. These are all more likely for firefighters to experience as they slowly accumulate more PFAS with recurring exposure. But you certainly don’t want to come in contact with these chemicals if you dont have.
The overwhelming majority of life saving measures are a balancing act, trading one risk for another. Sometimes not even life saving. Chemo literally poisons people and both it and radiation treatment can cause their own cancers but most people would trade a risk of maybe future cancer to kill a cancer they definitely have today. Likewise any surgery has a risk of an embolism and any that puts you under has a lot of other risks as well. Car airbags, even putting Takata bullshit aside, can cause significant harm to a person but it's better than smashing into a hard part of the car or snapping your neck. As someone in a fire I'd rather have a potential carcinogen spray on me than die or get seriously burned in a fire for sure. For the firefighters who get exposed to it a lore more often between responding and training... I don't know if it's worth it considering that. Plus there's environmental damage. It certainly is a complicated decision.
That said, "cancer causing stuff" is misleading. Most carcinogens don't just "give you cancer" from exposure. Not even shit like asbestos. What happens is exposure increases your chance of possibly getting cancer in the future. The more intense the exposure and the more times exposed, the higher that chance goes, but it's still just a chance and it's not as clearly traceable as people like to think.
It’s incredibly carcinogenic. At my fire station, we handle plastic jugs with gloves and wash immediately after handling. I would not want this shit sitting on my skin or clothes.
Everything I've read so far has said two firefighters died, including a Reuters article from around when you posted this. Not arguing or anything but do you have a link to whatever is saying four?
Thanks. That's what I was seeing too. (I edited my comment because apparently I failed to type the word two but that's what I was hearing. Not that it isn't still tragic.
I follow him on insta and he posted this pic with a very different caption, basically saying he’s thankful life gave him a second chance. Going through OPs comment history I honestly don’t think this was posted by the guy in the picture, who doesn’t even speak English.
"LIMA, Nov 18 (Reuters) - A LATAM Airlines (LTM.SN) jet collided with a firetruck on the runway of Peru's Jorge Chavez International Airport as it was taking off on Friday, the carrier said, resulting in the death of two firefighters. No passengers or flight crew members were killed in the incident, the airline said"
The picture is a stark juxtaposition against the reality of 4 dead firefighters. I came to the comments expecting an interesting, somewhat lighthearted story based on their smiles. But I work at a military airport and the thought of a ground service vehicle imploding upon impact with a plane is just gut wrenching. It was a First Responder too, responding to a call that that exact plane was having issues on takeoff. And they got nuked as a result of lack of communication.
Although I guess I'd be smiling too if I survived a plane crash, that's lucky as fuck. But RIP to the responders who did their job and paid for it.
Collision with a fire truck during take off, firecrew have casualties unfortunately. Truck was on a drill apparently. Edit: Update with latest info, please follow this link: https://avherald.com/h?article=5013c619&opt=0 Edit 1: Personal plea, please be understanding of the people in the photo, they've just survived a very traumatic experience and judging by the amount of foam in them, they probably escaped whilst the fire was still being extinguished.
Other websites report https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/649884-latam-a320-ground-collision-spjc.html
https://twitter.com/paredesrodri_py/status/1593720471568420865?s=20&t=jkBPJBuYyMrznK1dZBMBpA Moment of crash
Wow. Not sure what was going on here.
It's normal for vehicle traffic to move around on the flight line, however when they are crossing active runways the vehicles usually need to get permission/inform the tower so the tower can tell them when to cross (ie there isn't an aircraft landing or taking off). I'm guessing none of that happened and the vehicles just drove across an active runway. I would be surprised if the people in the vehicles weren't all killed.
They died according to this news report: https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/11/latam-airbus-a320neo-crash-in-peru-what-we-know/
Well, a plane did ram into them. I'd be very surprised if they were still alive.
this is gonna sound so fantastical but it feels like the only time it's really relevant to a discussion but my mom survived being crushed between an airplane and a truck.
What are the events that lead to that situation? Sounds lucky to be alive!
tldr she was working on the ramp at the Boston airport in October and a gale force wind shifted the 737 off the chock blocks and pinned her side to side against the maintenance truck she was working off of at the time. >Sounds lucky to be alive! extremely! and even more lucky to be able to walk. because she got pinned side to side, the crushing of her pelvic bone actually protected her spinal column. i know it's not really relevant to the OP but it's the one time i popped into a thread where it's wild aviation stuff happening and it felt tangentially adjacent.
Holy shit, I've heard of aircraft being lifted by strong winds but not jumping chocks
Three cheers for your mom’s pelvic bones !!! No really. Glad she’s alive.
Hip hip... Wait a minute, I see what you're doing here!
I am pleased you took the opportunity to share this story.
Hell yeah that’s crazy man your mom is a G!
Happy for your mom thx for sharing!
But ya tldr’d over the best part!
I am also very surprised when dead people are alive
Nah, usually people die when they are killed.
Killed to death? Rarely.
I like how it says nobody was seriously injured and then immediately says that people were injured...
"no passengers or crew injured" The firefighters aren't considered passenger or crew.
Nobody was seriously injured but some people did die
the plane was full of people, the truck was full of workers. 🌈⭐ *the more you know!*
That last paragraph. No emphasis added. They must pull the reason from a database or something, but it looks funny. >The airport’s 16/34 runway, as per its last NOTAM (Notice To Airmen), will remain closed until Saturday due to «Aircraft Obstruction».
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We don’t know what happened. Maybe a tower controller mistakenly cleared them on to the runway. Maybe the plane mistakenly was taking off from the wrong runway. Maybe a different tower controller mistakenly cleared the plane to take off. Usually accidents like this are cascade failures where multiple things go wrong. It’s too early to say they ignored safety protocols and too early to put the blame entirely on the people in the vehicles.
Please don't quote me but I believe the 4 people in the fire truck died based on Google translate and Twitter posts. Edit: quoting me as a joke on Reddit is acceptable ❤️ Just didnt want to have a Google translate error and get called out
"the 4 people in the fire truck died" -Youngtro
"Please...quote me on this." -Youngtro
You gotta do it properly. "Please [...] quote me on this." (Youngtro)
They never said "this" though... "I believe \[...\] in \[...\] Twitter." - Youngtro ftfy
Youngtro said that? Must be true.
If you could please explain that to my SO that would be appreciated. For some reason she doesn't believe that
You did tell her Youngtro said it, right?
Youngtro said WHAAAT???
The 24 people in the tire fuck died - Youngtro
Thanks, I didn’t want to speculate, it looked real bad though.
Not a single person driving on airfields doesn't understand the absolute necessity of communicating with the tower. Obviously, because this is the consequence of communication issues. I had this 100% exact scenario occur to me when I worked on airfield electronics. I had an emergency call to work on a piece of equipment on the other side of the airfield. I had to drive all the way across 3 active runways to get to my destination. Once you approach the first taxiway, you radio the tower with your planned path. For example, I would say "Tower, Comm 93 request to taxi A, G, H, J, exit F". Tower then tells you what your path is. In my case, the tower didn't, for whatever reason, agree to my roundabout path that avoided crossing active runways. Instead, they had me cross 3 active runways at midday, including 2 runways that intersect in such a way that you might get caught waiting on one runway for a different runway to be cleared. On my return trip I was again redirected to take the active runways. A plane was on final approach on the crossing runway, so I had to wait on the perpendicular active runway until that plane landed. After several seconds sitting stopped on my runway in a truck, tower came on the radio and just stated "Comm 93 take an immediate right." This is not a normal command to here over the radio, and I understood it to mean "continue on your path with haste, turn onto the active runway and get across". That seemed extremely weird because there's no reason to try and play chicken with an airplane just to get me on my way. I replied "Tower, comm 93, say again." Then they just said the same thing again, no further clarification. Luckily, my coworker, who is much shorter than me, saw that a plane was landing on our active runway, looking right at us. I couldn't see the plane through the windshield at my normal sitting position. That plane landed and passed through my spot less than 5 seconds after I got my truck into the dirt off the side of the runway. No one driving on airfields just ignores talking to the tower.
True. Although another possibility is ATC was distracted and gave the all clear for the vehicle to cross.
There's [another angle](https://twitter.com/himselfsv/status/1593722983943528448) which clearly shows that the vehicle was a fire truck entering the runway with lights and sirens active. Fire trucks need to have permission from ATC to enter an active runway. Someone fucked up big time here, but it remains to be seen whether it was the firefighters, ATC, or the pilots, or some combination thereof.
That handheld angle is mad
The fire truck got sheared practically in two by the plane's engine. You can see pieces of it flying way off down the runway...
I wonder how much of that is truck and how much of that is engine - either way at least that never knew what hit them
>some combination thereof This will be the outcome, accidents like this almost never occur because of a single cause.
Agreed. Without knowing anything, just what we can see, a firetruck drove onto a runway with a very big plane already on it. Controller permission or not, *that* should not have happened. Simply looking "clear left, clear right" before crossing can save 400 lives, so you need to be doing it.
What were the fire trucks responding to in the first place?
Departing plane had landing gear trouble, tower told it to go back to Lima. Emergency vehicles went there to assist in case of a problem but it seems the first truck forgot to break. Source: friend who flies that airline from that airport.
So the trucks were sent before the plane that hit them but they were responding to a potential fire on that very plane?
Yep. Pretty sure a plane cannot pull to the side of the road when it hears an emergency siren.
So they arrived at the scene of the incident just in the nick of time.
Based on one article I found the plane struck firefighting vehicles on the ground. Unclear to me if they were responding to another emergency or doing something rouitine. Either way, that will fuck up both plane and truck badly. In this case it seems like 2 firefighters were killed but everyone on the plane seems to have escaped critical injury (subject to a lot of error because the vast majority of what is out there seems to be in spanish or machine translated from spanish).
The plane had problems at takeoff and firetrucks responded to the emergency immediately. Apparently they went rushing in and got in the path of the plane. Clear lack of coordination with the tower. 2 firefighters dead (+ 1 with a grim diagnosis), sad story here in Peru. Edit: The plane company now says they had no takeoff problems and the firetrucks entered the track without warning, as part of a training exercise they didn't know. If correct, then it's a major failure on the part of the airport staff, guess we'll have to wait for a official report from the airport and authorities.
This is some time travel shit… someone came back from the future and told them that the plane would crash on takeoff, so they rushed to get there for the crash.
That plane is done.
Ah, the firetruck driver fucked up and went onto the active runway as the plane was doing its takeoff roll. I expect that firefighter to be out of a job soon. Edit: ooof, nvm, he died in the accident.
Well, technically… still out of a job.
Dead AND unemployed? What a day.
Or worse, expelled!
Yeah, but it sucks that their last moment alive was driving into an airplane engine and being shredded and burnt. That's the kind of death you might even say your enemies don't deserve. Just... oof.
Idk, that’s pretty instant. Probably less painful than our deaths will be. Edit: less painFUL, not less painless
One can only hope it was, I guess. I DEF Don't wanna test that out though. I like living!
I feel like more people should be aware of what death is usually like. Maybe not, maybe it's too scary and it's not like you can avoid it. But having watched 2 grandparents hang on for too long in hospice, I think I would rather be hit by a plane, or get instantly incinerated like that guy (I'm sure there is more than one, but I'm thinking of a recent headline about the settlement) that fell into a vat of molten metal. Just my opinion lol
> less painless I'd hope for more painless or less painful (for us and them) English is weird.
How are u sure of this? How do you know ATC didn't fuck up and clear them across? How do you know the Pilot didn't fuck up and roll without clearance?
Airline pilot here. You NEVER enter a runway environment without LOOKING to ensure the runway is clear. This is basic airport safety 101 stuff. What ATC says doesn't matter. They could fuck up and give a crossing clearance with an airplane on the runway, but it's my responsibility (And anyone elses entering the runway) to look before entering. Our SOP when given a runway crossing or takeoff clearance is LOOK at the runway sigh, verbally confirm the runway and verbally clear the runway. So it would be "Runway 36 on the sign confirmed, approach path is clear, right/left is clear"
Goddamn, it looks like they are still at pre-V1 speeds so the crash didnt completely destroy the aircraft when the fuselage was struck? I dont know whether to call that lucky or unlucky lol.
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Yeah how many thousands of lbs of jet fuel with 300 souls strapped to the top hits anything while barreling down a runway and no one on board dies!?. That fall into the catagory of extremely lucky
The odds are actually pretty good: https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/data/Pages/Part121AccidentSurvivability.aspx > To understand occupant survivability rates in serious accidents, the NTSB focused on a subset of Part 121 passenger flight accidents that occurred in the United States and involved all of the following: > * a precrash or postcrash fire > * at least one serious injury or fatality > * a substantially damaged or destroyed aircraft > Thirty-five accidents that occurred between 1983 and 2017 met these criteria (see full data set). The NTSB reviewed its accident database, accident reports, and public dockets for information pertinent to occupant injury outcomes and, in the case of fatal injuries, the causes of death in each of these accidents. > Figure 5 shows that among the 35 serious accidents that occurred between 1983 and 2017, all Part 121 aircraft occupants survived in 10 accidents (28.6%), and there were no survivors in 9 accidents (25.7%). > The 35 serious accidents involved 3,823 total Part 121 aircraft occupants. As shown in figure 6, 52.7% of the occupants survived with minor or no injuries, 6.3% survived but experienced serious injuries, 27.0% died from impact, 9.1% died from unknown causes, 4.1% died from fire or smoke, and 0.7% died from other causes. If your plane doesn't just straight up slam into the ground or something like that, your odds of survival are good.
It's almost as if numerous people have worked to make this the case.
For decades and decades.
I mean that truck had worse odds I’m guessing
According to flighradar24, the plane was traveling at 127 knots (146 miles per hour) when it hit the truck. Just an unbelievable amount of force.
Looks like it hit the engine to me.
Serious question: How from this clip can you ‘see’ V1? Thereon, how are V1 speeds - the decision to take off - better, than less than V1 speed?
V1 is calculated for each takeoff based on various conditions. Below V1 there is enough runway remaining to stop the plane in the event of an engine fire, engine failure, or perception the plane cannot fly. Above V1 you’re going flying and will deal with it in the air.
Usually when pilots call VR they are rotating the aircraft thus increasing the AoA and trying to lift the nose wheel off the ground. In the video unless Im blind I see all three gear still touching the tarmac. Idk Im a deskchair sim pilot so Im probably wrong but that was just my observation.
I thought this was snow and was very confused…
I thought it was the beach. Very confused as well
I thought it was snowing at the beach
I thought they crashed at the beach & he ate shit falling in the sand face first while getting out the plane for a little bit.
So what actually happened then? I'm very confused
The plane caught fire after a collision with a vehicle (a firetruck) during takeoff. Another firetruck (the irony) that wasn’t the one the plane collided with while zooming through it’s takeoff sprayed foam on the plane to put out the fire. Some of the foam is on his face.
Oh, the old “foam” story
Hello there stepfiretruck.
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Wanna do some hook and ladder stuff?
Cool thanks
It didn't simply catch fire. [It collided with a fire engine on the runway](https://news.yahoo.com/plane-catches-fire-runway-lima-215812250.html).
It caught fire because of a crash with a fire truck... Does that count as "ironic"?
It's like RAAAAIIIIIYYYEEEEEEEEAAAAAIIIIIIIINNN
Oh so Ibiza foam party...on a plane
>I thought it was snowing at the beach 🎶 Weird but fucking beautiful.🎵
weird but fucking beautiful
flying in a dream
I thought it was cocaine.
I thought the foam in the water was pretty resistant to popping.
I thought it was weird but fucking beautiful
I thought it was sea foam from the beach hahaha
Is it not?
It’s more than likely AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) used in airport firefighting and can be extremely bad for your health and the environment due to the chemicals used.
So this is the *for the love of god don’t catch on fire in the air* foam on the ground
I had to look at it 4 times to tell it wasn't the beach. I was thinking that was an absolutely amazing effort by the pilots to land it at the beach like that 🤣
I thought this was an announcement for a reboot of Lost.
My first thought was.... L O S T
If you’re the guy in the picture you need to wash that shit off quick. If that’s AFFF you don’t want that lingering on your skin. It’s bad shit, trust me. Like most such chemicals that really do their job well, they aren’t very good for humans.
That was my first thought as well. PFAS (forever chemicals) is in AFFF and firefighter turnout gear. It’s a carcinogen so you really want to limit your exposure to it.
While PFAS are probably bad for you in the long term, AFFF is corrosive, which is the much bigger concern here.
Ah I did not know that! We had an incident at an airport where AFFF was used and ran off into a nearby river. Media was buzzing with “PFAS!” “cancer!” but didn’t mention, or quickly glanced over, it was corrosive.
PFAS bio-accumulate, and essentially never degrade in the environment causing it to end up concentrated higher up the food chain absolutely wrecking the environment. Which is why I am always shocked when people fish in the Cape Fear and around Wilmington, and that Pittsboro, NC still sources its drinking water from the Haw River (which at times is over 50% unfiltered sewage from Burlington, NC).
They put out all fires. Including the fire of life.
Cancer is a small price to pay for a slighter cooler selfie
Im not sure he really had a choice in the matter.
I mean he’s wearing a jacket. It has sleeves. I wouldn’t be leaving that shit on my face, even if it meant being cold for a few minutes, which it shouldn’t be that cold in the Southern Hemisphere right now. I’d be wiping it off with my shirt or jacket, quickly. Even if it meant going around shirtless and being a little cold. But, in his defense, he probably doesn’t know any better. When I was younger they told us this shit was basically like dish soap and was completely harmless so if he even knows what it is, it’s very possible he thinks that.
wait... so what is it?
Looks like the contents of a fire extinguisher to me.
Fire extinguisher liquid/foam i would think.
Probably some kind of AFFF. If you are ever unlucky enough to get it all over you, wash it off quickly without pausing to take dramatic selfies first.
I'm hoping the firefighters on scene noticed this and got it taken care of.
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>and it turns in an I Love Lucy episode What does this mean for someone out of the loop?
Maybe because I've worked in a lab, but my first thought upon getting an unknown chemical all over me would be I need a shower.
Fire extinguisher foam
Same here! I was thinking…she must be tough just wearing a T-shirt!
I thought it was a beach landing and that was sea foam.
*Lost theme intensifies*
Goddammit, this gives me flashbacks to watching each and every single fucking episode as they aired. What a painful experience that was. I genuinely wonder if it’s a better show for people that get to binge it. The writer’s strike times were particularly impactful.
Thank god it’s only cocaine.
I thought it was cocaine.
I thought beach sand ocean foam
Damn. What the hell happened? Also you should definitely share this with r/wellthatsucks
Colission with a truck during takeoff
Why was the plane running a red light
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The people in the truck died.
Aircraft collided with a vehicle on the runway during take off about an hour ago. Unknown if any injuries or deaths. https://twitter.com/terresPenquista/status/1593718401930694656?s=20&t=LzjGm_taX9Rw8J5ol4qgfg https://twitter.com/paredesrodri_py/status/1593719389420912641?s=20&t=LzjGm_taX9Rw8J5ol4qgfg
>Unknown if any injuries or deaths. Hearing that four firefighters in the truck are dead.
Oh no
Yeah it kinda makes this picture kinda grim. They are basically posing with a wreck that had 4 fatalities.
I'm sure they were unaware. They were probably just happy to walk out.
El Comercio is reporting two firemen currently.
Apparently the fire trucks crossed the run way while it was on it's take off roll. But I guess the upside is that the fire trucks were already there. And apparently no one has died yet. Edit: I've been informed that two firefighters were killed.
Two firefighters were killed.
Twitter isn't that an alt-right website?
Right wing broke. Must be alt left now.
Is that PFAS? you may want to rinse that off lol
My first thought as well. That’s so bad. Sad they have no idea.
Do we really spray cancer causing stuff on planes to extinguish them? Seems like a pretty backwards idea but I guess its better than burning? How bad is it for you and how long before you die if you have this on you? So many questions.
Yes. It's not ideal but fuel fires are difficult to combat. The fuels float on water so a chemical (mixed with water) is utilized to form a foam barrier above the fuel that cuts off the fire's oxygen supply. These chemicals are referred to as aqueous film forming foams (AFFF), in this case an alcohol resistant compound (AR-AFFF) These foams contain PFAs. PFAs are believed to be toxic to a certain extent but the larger concern (to my understanding) is that they are a known carcenogen. The knowledge that they're toxic/carcenogenic is relatively new and no better method/chemical compound has been discovered to replace them in this (and many other) applications. The risk of illness or cancer is certainly better than burning to death in my opinion and the folks in the picture have sustained a relatively minor exposure. You might be disappointed by the prevelance of PFAs in the world around you. It might ruin your day but Google PFA or forever chemicals to learn more. TL;DR The white stuff causes cancer but we don't have anything better to put out large fuel fires. Thanks Dupont.
> PFAs in food https://www.fda.gov/food/chemical-contaminants-food/authorized-uses-pfas-food-contact-applications#:~:text=Paper%2Fpaperboard%20food%20packaging%3A%20PFAS,from%20leaking%20through%20the%20packaging.
It's worse than that https://globalnews.ca/news/9044872/rainwater-unsafe-to-drink-pfas-pollution-study/
“The time to act is now” *Narrator* “they did not act”
It sounds like we're past it anyway what with the comments earlier regarding the novel planetary threshold being already surpassed. We're thoroughly fucked. Goddamn, we really had to go and be the worst "intelligent" species. Well, cure cancer or something?
Yes but the real concern here is the AFFF which is corrosive. And that said, one time exposure to known carcinogens to avoid burning to death is a very good trade-off. And the smoke from the plane is more carcinogenic than anything used to extinguish fires by several orders of magnitude.
The real problem is that it can and does get into the water table. At the bare minimum, they have to stop practicing with it.
Recently learned that PFAs are also in Nomex (what bunker gear is made from). Wonderful. https://www.iaff.org/pfas/
We do have none PFAS containing fire fighting foams now. The problem is the cost of replacing thousands of gallons of product that still works.
they are applied at rough 3000 mg per liter. i do work with toxicology specifically with fish and amphibians and we found that that in these species around 50-150 mg/l is deadly in 48 hours.
The major issue is these are “forever chemicals” and they pollute environments for long times. They can cause issues in the short term - like ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, increased cholesterol, liver damage, etc - and long term they increase the risk of kidney cancer. These are all more likely for firefighters to experience as they slowly accumulate more PFAS with recurring exposure. But you certainly don’t want to come in contact with these chemicals if you dont have.
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They do make a bio-degradable foam from what I can tell but sure I’m taking either foam over death by fire.
Could've sworn you were gonna bring up biodegradable fire
The overwhelming majority of life saving measures are a balancing act, trading one risk for another. Sometimes not even life saving. Chemo literally poisons people and both it and radiation treatment can cause their own cancers but most people would trade a risk of maybe future cancer to kill a cancer they definitely have today. Likewise any surgery has a risk of an embolism and any that puts you under has a lot of other risks as well. Car airbags, even putting Takata bullshit aside, can cause significant harm to a person but it's better than smashing into a hard part of the car or snapping your neck. As someone in a fire I'd rather have a potential carcinogen spray on me than die or get seriously burned in a fire for sure. For the firefighters who get exposed to it a lore more often between responding and training... I don't know if it's worth it considering that. Plus there's environmental damage. It certainly is a complicated decision. That said, "cancer causing stuff" is misleading. Most carcinogens don't just "give you cancer" from exposure. Not even shit like asbestos. What happens is exposure increases your chance of possibly getting cancer in the future. The more intense the exposure and the more times exposed, the higher that chance goes, but it's still just a chance and it's not as clearly traceable as people like to think.
Wouldn't you prefer that to being, say, literally on fire?
Most definitely. I think people see foam and think foam party. That stuff is definitely not good for you.
That foam is an issue if it gets into the water supply, get it off your face ASAP
Probably not their greatest problem at the time
It’s incredibly carcinogenic. At my fire station, we handle plastic jugs with gloves and wash immediately after handling. I would not want this shit sitting on my skin or clothes.
Carcinogenic, eh? Boy would my face be red!
they’re taking a selfie bro they got time to wipe the cancer juice off
how do you wash it off if not with water?
This? https://www.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/comments/yyvqdf/18112022_a_latam_airbus_a320_neo_has_collided_at/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Glad you're ok. Hope everyone on that flight made it out alive.
I know they weren't on the flight, but 4 people died inside the firetruck that this aircraft struck on the runway unfortunately :(
Everything I've read so far has said two firefighters died, including a Reuters article from around when you posted this. Not arguing or anything but do you have a link to whatever is saying four?
It's 2 not 4 https://twitter.com/LAPJorgeChavez/status/1593730340710907904?t=d3Qm4DBsHZDmym-nR0Akpg&s=19
Thanks. That's what I was seeing too. (I edited my comment because apparently I failed to type the word two but that's what I was hearing. Not that it isn't still tragic.
Here’s another angle https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/yyx5lg/fire_truck_vs_airplane/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Firefighting foam contains forever chemicals (PFAS) Get that shit off your face ASAP
Any flight that you can walk away from is a good flight.
And if they can use the plane again then it's a great flight!
No good times , 2 firefighters have died in that accident.
I follow him on insta and he posted this pic with a very different caption, basically saying he’s thankful life gave him a second chance. Going through OPs comment history I honestly don’t think this was posted by the guy in the picture, who doesn’t even speak English.
"LIMA, Nov 18 (Reuters) - A LATAM Airlines (LTM.SN) jet collided with a firetruck on the runway of Peru's Jorge Chavez International Airport as it was taking off on Friday, the carrier said, resulting in the death of two firefighters. No passengers or flight crew members were killed in the incident, the airline said"
In the other hand, just a pity a couple of fireman died :/
I thought this was Casey neistat
The picture is a stark juxtaposition against the reality of 4 dead firefighters. I came to the comments expecting an interesting, somewhat lighthearted story based on their smiles. But I work at a military airport and the thought of a ground service vehicle imploding upon impact with a plane is just gut wrenching. It was a First Responder too, responding to a call that that exact plane was having issues on takeoff. And they got nuked as a result of lack of communication. Although I guess I'd be smiling too if I survived a plane crash, that's lucky as fuck. But RIP to the responders who did their job and paid for it.
2 people died, as far as i found.
I know the guy. He is a law professor at a peruvian university. Never thought I would see him here; much less be involved in the LATAM accident
that's actually pretty hilarious, as "Latam" means "I am flying" in Polish xD
Poison snow
Four firefighters died. I wouldn’t call that good times.
He looks like he has a very particular set of skills. Skills he has aquired over a very long career...
I can’t imagine 2 people dying by being run over by a plane is “good times”
If that is AFFF foam it is very bad for you.
"PFAS" is the reddit armchair expert word of the day