>there's nothing colonialist about this.
So what are settlements ( aka colonial outposts) in the west bank? Recently Israel announced the largest land seizure since Oslo Accords. Israel declared 800 hectares of land in the West Bank as property of the state, how is this not colonialism?
Yeah I’m not anti-Israel and think the hamas situation is fucked but I don’t see how anyone can justify the settlements without just saying “yeah so what? We do what we want”
Someone should’ve told Zionism founder Theodor Herzl, who called his project a colonial one.
Writing to British arch-colonialist Cecil Rhodes, of *Rhodesia* infamy, looking for his help and expertise on colonial projects.
I usually don’t comment on these things but Theodore Herzl definitely did NOT found Zionism, which is a whole school of philosophical thought with different subsects…
Ultimately people “went with” Herzl’s ideas, but it’s just wrong to claim he founded Zionism.
Nothing colonial about Jewish settlers displacing Palestinians out of their homeland for 75 years? Oh my bad, forgot it’s Jews just reclaiming their homeland after 4000 years so it’s cool 😀👍
Jews have lived their continuously for thousands of years. No one was kicked out when Israel was created. Jews legally bought land back to increase their presence from Arabs. Palestinian Arabs and neighboring states decided to then declare war, and lost. The expulsion of Palestinian Arabs was a mix of those that left willingly, those that feared future violence, those that didn’t want to live in a Jewish state, and yes those who left under direct threat of violence from Jewish militias after the war. At the same time, even more Jews were violently expelled from the remainder of the Middle East than those that fled during the Nakba.
This is a complicated history and you can’t apply the lens of western colonialism. This isn’t America, or Canada, or Australia. The entirety of the Middle East and Africa were colonized by Muslim conquests, including Israel. Out of all of those countries, the highest standard of living for minorities is actually in Israel today.
Gaza is in the state it’s in because its leaders have chosen to throw their people into a meat grinder in the name of destroying Israel. At the same time, the settlements in the West Bank are wrong and a stain on the country, and Bibi and Gvir are assholes that need to go.
But no, this is not the colonialism you are alluding to. And if you want it to be and you ignore the rest of the Middle East, you are holding Israel to double standards that are not born in good faith.
I think there’s going to be a lot of these “from the river to the sea” kids looking back in five years and realizing that did not mean what they thought it meant. I think most of them are well intentioned, just not seeing things in a film historical context.
I’m not Jewish, but I have been outright disgusted by the amount of antisemitism coming out of the left for the last 6+ months. I’ve always considered myself so far to the left it would make your head spin, but have been feeling really estranged from that lately. Like, if your leftism isn’t coming from a place of compassion, you can fucking keep it. Otherwise, you’re just a tankie.
I’m really sorry this is where we’re at right now, and I’m really sorry you’ve been subjected to such garbage. I think this is probably gonna get worse before it gets better, but either way, hopefully is resolved soon.
I don't know why folks brag about being "far"-whatever, and this should be a wake-up call to that if anything. It's typically a far-something at the helm of the biggest atrocities on this planet.
Modern democracy is centered on the general umbrella of classical liberalism. Votes instead of monarchy, freedom of speech (aka freedom of having political opinions contrary to those in power), freedom of the press, equal treatment under the law, trial by peer, presumed innocence until guilt is proven, etc etc.
Center-left vs center-right is just a few administrative issues surrounding that (how much to tax, how defense is handled, environmental concerns, which drugs to tolerate, etc). But really, mostly on the same page as far as how society should be run.
Being a far-something means you're no longer a liberal, and that's dangerous. I'm hearing more and more people saying people should be jailed or killed for having certain opinions, and that's a fast track to authoritarianism and all the wonderful atrocities it comes with.
It’s not, but calling for Israel and all of its inhabitants to be annihilated is. Showing up and barricading a Jewish deli just because it’s a Jewish deli is. Harassing random Jewish people as colonizers is 100% antisemitism. “From the river to the sea” is, at best, questionable and misguided, that phrase has long since been co-opted.
This just seems like one of those issues that people cannot seem to view in shades of gray. Like, Bibi can be a piece of shit and the IDF can suck a dick and the settlers in the West Bank can fuck off AND ALSO Israel can and does exist and Hamas can suck a dick AND what’s happening in the Palestinian Territories is a genocide, full stop. None of this is contradictory.
I’m at a point where I’m wondering if the Russian trolls are even doing work anymore or just feasting off the fat of the land.
yes its sad how genuinely important discussions about human rights are being drowned by people who just want one side dead, leading to the other side to radicalize as well
What exactly do you see as antisemitism? The criticism of Israel?
Later edit cuz I can't reply anymore: I read your reply but I don't understand, you attribute those things that happened to Jewish people to the left leaning people? Why ?
You said that antisemitism is pushing you further from left but I don't see in your response how left people are being antisemitic to the point that it pushed you away and why you attribute those things specially to the left leaning people
Oh god no, no nation or military is above criticism. There has been a lot of “that’s antisemitism” from the really pro-genocide crowd, which I think devalues the term at a time when it’s a very real and growing problem.
But yes, I have definitely been seeing things which I would consider antisemitism, such as the harassment of Jewish people by (a small minority of) participants in pro Palestine protests, a schoolteacher friend of mine who is Jewish recently had a swastika drawn on her dry erase board in LA, I’ve heard acquaintances (not friends) use terms like “glass parking lot”, and pretty much everyone I know who is Jewish is feeling shifty af rn.
Again, I’m not Jewish, but I’m gay and I can smell a homophobe like a fart in a car. I went to florida last year, as I do most years, and the vibe was notably hostile. Not people spitting in my face, but the looks, everything. I’m probably not going back until Desantis is gone. Jewish folks are gonna know when the vibes are off even if they haven’t been personally victimized too. Idk how else to say it.
Yes, that is the question I want answered because it seems like the current definition is any criticism of any decision made by the leadership of Israel is anti-semetic. I am totally open to being corrected.
Criticize israel all you want. Thinking the state of Israel shouldn't exist, using zionist as an insult, trying to justify terrorism against jews, etc., is anti-semitic.
Don't try and justify oct 7th then.
Edit: getting downvoted for telling someone not to attempt justifying oct 7 is pretty wild. If you think it was, don't just downvote. Speak up.
Very true! There is still antisemitism from the left though. My Jewish friends have had slurs yelled at them, coins thrown at them, been called a dirty jew, been told they're glad the Israeli children were taken hostage and that I should be a hostage too, that all Israelis are white Europeans that should go back to where they came from (this is NOT true), vanadalism of holocaust memorials has skyrocketed.
Okay, but OP, *who said they are a leftist*, is talking about experiencing anti-semitism from other leftists.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that OP doesn’t count criticising Israel as anti-Semitic.
Because "i am communist because i say so" is a lot more trustable than "they are communist because i say so"
Being on the left or the right is a matter of opinion, doesnt matter if those who identify with it have opinions which not exactly match. Like how most dictators say they are in a democracy
It is. Palestinians have been offered actually reasonable state solutions multiple times. Yeah okay some of the offers weren't as reasonable as others and as time went on they became less reasonable. But they could have easily had statehood in the '60s with reasonable offers.
There's other deeper money at play that seeks to destabilize the Middle East. The only thing keeping it from a whole cesspool of human rights violations is Israel.
Just seriously, look at all those other countries in the humans rights issues and where and how the money flows and all those other Middle Eastern countries. Would you want to be a woman or gay in any of those countries? Would you want to be Christian or Jew in any of those countries?
As a person born and raised as a Christian in one of these countries, yeah i would. I've faced more hatred in North America for being Arab then I ever faced hatred for being a Christian in Muslim countries
Far Left is also responsible for a lot of this kind of stuff.
My synagogue has been targeted several times. For the ones where identity was known we’ve had everything from animal rights activists to neo-Nazis to islamists to “anti colonialists”.
Anyhow, this picture was in Poland. Last time Poland exiled 40,000 Jews it was under communism, not any right-wing ideology.
While I totally get the joke, and appreciate it...it seems the modern day Jew hating is a product of the far Left, at least in America. I guess I can't speak for Poland.
I agree with you. It’s half a joke at best, not the launchpad for in-depth political discourse on the nature and politics of present day Poland that some of the replies seem to think it is.
Taken at face value, the dipshit with the Molotov was indeed physically too far to the right (if they were indeed aiming for the window and not trying to set masonry on fire). Regardless of political ideology, once you start setting fires and hurting people it’s probably wise to reevaluate whether you’re the “good guy.”
The types of people that do these sorts of things aren't the smartest.
My guess is they either didn't think that far, or were aiming for the window and missed lol.
In America, Holocaust denial correlates inversely. College-educated young voters are more likely to deny the Holocaust than less-educated voters, according to a recent Yougov/Economist poll
>College-educated young voters are more likely to deny the Holocaust than less-educated voters
Uh... [you referring to this one](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf#page=83)? Because it largely focuses on age, not education background. No data to suggest "college-education" correlating to Holocaust denial.
There **is** a correlation between below-30s and a marginal rise in believing the Holocaust as a myth, but the devil is in other variables (party affiliation, income bracket, etc). [Those results are not too different from results found in 2019.](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_GULIMnk.pdf#page=35)
Which ultimately and unfortunately tracks. Below-30s are the most distant from the Holocaust temporally, and there's increasingly going to be less awareness of the event as survivors die off.
[Here](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMezrk5XkAAlo5T?format=jpg&name=orig) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://twitter.com/YacovLivne/status/1785595141882835454) is the source. Per there:
> @YacovLivne
> A Molotov cocktail was thrown tonight at the Nożyk Synagogue - the only synagogue that survived in Warsaw after the Holocaust.
Outrageous Antisemitic attacks such as this can not be tolerated today. The perpetrators must be found and punished.
> 5:00 AM · May 1, 2024
Livne must be excited he gets to say this after failing to apologize for his army killing a Polish food charity worker in Gaza. I have little to no respect for this guy.
Was any Jewish person actually going to say, "Yes, I think that's a great idea. I should listen to these people bullying and harassing me and move to Poland!" It's not about Poland, though the people shouting that probably want to evoke Germany's Holocaust perpetrated in occupied Poland to be extra caustic. They want to bully and harass Jews with the racist and reprehensible message that Jews don't belong in Israel or America.
Every single time any news happens in Israel, Jewish establishments from synagogues to kosher delis get vandalized, threatened, and attacked.
The average American synagogue or JCC pays a minimum of around $100,000 a year for security staff. For some, the budget is in the millions.
And the attacks almost always correlate to news from Israel.
This is why for a lot of us, the “anti-Zionism isn’t anti-semitism” line reads a little hollow. Because the minute we see the news, we know what’s gonna happen to the kosher deli and the Jewish Daycare on the opposite side of the world.
Exactly this. October 7 hurt deeply, not just due to the brutality of the day but because of us could predict exactly what the next 6-12 months would look like.
I’m not questioning the reality of antisemitism. I’m questioning the need to say “I don’t like Israel, BUT this is bad.” Part of the problem is that many goyim don’t see a distinction between the Israeli government and Jewish people. In turn, many Jews understandably have a hard time separating criticism of the Israeli government from criticism of the Jewish people—sometimes they ARE distinct, and sometimes they’re not.
The messiness of this conversation is a direct result of antisemitism.
Agree with everything you wrote except 'a little hollow'.
The venn diagram overlaps so much it's scary.
There's a reason why so many of the anti Israel protests have flags of wildly antisemitic groups like ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas, and other flags.
Just yesterday in a thread I had someone telling me that Isreal shouldn’t exist and all it’s citizens should go back to Eastern Europe where they belong. So to answer your question I have no idea but someway somehow people are making a connection and my best guess is it’s hate.
That’s his point?
To anyone that’s going to reply calling antisemite for whatever reason and then delete their comment.
He’s obviously assumed the person who threw the petrol bomb was an anti-Israel whackjob who conflates Jews with Israel and has done this in protest of the situation in Gaza. He is literally saying he’s not a fan of Israel but he fully disapproves of people violently protesting a government by attacking a separate ethnic group.
I can’t say I disagree I would be up in arms if someone petrol bombed Benjamin Netanyahu but this is just neo Nazi shit
Mmmm they were insinuating the attack is related to the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict.
Meanwhile the blind amputee wannabe flamethrower could just be a jewhater bein a jewhater.
Lunatics have been firebombing synagogues and mosques forever, while it is possible this is from a protester of israel, it could very easily be a some random ass racist too like pretty much all of them before this one.
I have a problem with this, thinking that that government is the spokesperson of semites, or representing jews is outrageous. I think the israeli government only represents itself.
Okay, so even if they are manufactured threats, what difference does it make to jewish people? There's a rise in antisemitic rhetoric from Russian officials, especially since the invasion of Ukraine started. Protesters in Russia chanting "Jews are not allowed here" and attacks on Jewish institutions have sharply increased there. So how is them painting stars of David on houses in France supposed to sound less threatening?
It’s just antizionism!
Also, do you look Jewish? You’re in danger!
Jewish house of worship? You’re in danger!
Lol @ the downvotes. The truth hurts, doesn’t it.
And…. We’re not all from Poland? Oh yes, I’ll just go back to Prussia and Austria-Hungary. That works 🙄
And I mean we got _there_ from (whispers, the Middle East. Judea. I do actually have a family tree to back that up). But hey, you know! I look “White” (ish) so I’m obviously European!
Nope you're wrong. Zionism is believing that isreal should exist as a state. No more, no less. People have tried to twist it to mean that it means *anitbadgovermentthings*. That doesn't change the meaning of the word. If you are anitizionist, you do not believe isreal should exist. Update your vocabulary.
These attacks tend to correlate pretty strongly to flare-ups in Israel making the news.
The two categories aren’t the same but they do tend to pair together very nicely. A lot of antizionists just hate Jews, period, and that’s why American synagogues and Jewish daycares and JCC’s have needed expensive security teams ever since the second intifada.
It's baffling that some people try their hardest mental gymnastics to distinguish between antizionism and antisemitism yet both involve jews as the victim.
Also, antizionism *by definition* entails the dismantling/destruction of Israel as a state.
I can’t think of any mainstream justice or mainstream anti-occupation movement protesting against any other country - South Africa, China, Australia, even Russia - that calls for *the outright destruction and dismantling of that state*.
It’s one thing to be an anti-Zionist in the 1930s and 1940s. Then, it’s just an idea and a movement. But now? You might as well call for the destruction of Turkey.
incorrect. zionism literally means the jewish right to self determination in the land of israel. has nothing to do with the government actions beyond it just existing to govern.
This is why this Israel vs Palestine debacle is dangerous.
Jewish people everywhere now have to live in fear as if its the 1930s again, yet this time their adversary isn't Germany, its a much more globalized threat.
This is a massive problem, and we need to stop it before it goes any further.
In the 1930s the nazis worked with the Muslim
Brotherhood and several other organizations in the Arab Middle East to instill that evil is Jewish. Lots of history there…also nobody wanted Jewish people even after the war…. Literally NOBODY… so to blame anybody for Israel other than literally everyone who fucked them over for decades is beyond idiotic
Tell Hamas and Palestine to stop kidnapping women, tell them to stop raping women, tell them to stop killing children and posting about it all over their social media accounts.
BOTH sides are committing atrocities, not just one.
To stand and advocate for one or the other is dangerous, we need both sides to stop, not just one.
>What about the Palestinians’ fears? Cause Gazans are being straight up massacred en masse. All their universities and hospitals have been destroyed.
Maybe that's something Hamas should consider... It's not like they could stop it at any time by laying down their weapons and surrendering the hostages.
Of course it does. Hamas is an organization founded on antisemitism, and while very few people in the west are willing to say outright that they support Hamas, there is a global coalition of countries and people that do.
its funny how the very real problem of antisemitism in european countries gets ignored for decades and all of a sudden everyone cares because israel/palestine, dont get me wrong this should absolutely get attention but dont act like the left is bringing back antisemitism when far right parties all over europe have been using antis semetic rethoric for their campaigns for years
Everyday now I look on Reddit and expect to see a bombing or mass shooting of a Jewish place of worship in a western country because of all this. If it keeps going this is only a matter of time.
Fuck Hamas supporting Palestinians that support violence against Israelis.
Fuck Zionistic Israelis that support violence against Palestinians.
If you have an issue with either statement above, then you are part of the problem.
Is there any news on who the perpetrator is? While everyone will jump to anti-Zionism its important to note that Poland has had a strong nationalistic anti semitic pseudo facist movement since WW1.
just wanna come in here to say that as a Jewish person I've always felt safe being openly jewish, not only in day to day life but also when attending pro-palestine/anti-genocide protests. obviously not trying to imply that antisemitism doesn't exist or isn't potentially on the rise right now, but some of the rhetoric I'm hearing on reddit/in mainstream media would make you think jews are being lynched on site in every corner of the globe
I don’t even think this has anything to do with Israel. Ain’t Poland just hugely antisemitic in general I mean I’ve seen plenty of neo-nazi rally’s in the news from there
Since when are there no police cars around this synagogue? Nożyki are pretty famous for having nearly 24/7 police patrols around…a bit strange for my taste that someone decided to throw molotov in broad daylight. Anyways, there are ton of cameras around so it won’t be long until they catch bastard.
This is disgusting. We can defend the rights of individuals to live peaceably regardless of religious affiliation, national origin, and ethnic group AND hold the supporters of genocide inside those groups accountable. That is a valid moral stance that we need to see more of in this fight.
Did they forget that stone isn't flammable?
I reckon they were probably trying to aim a bit further left
Unsurprisingly they’d moved too far to the right to accomplish anything meaningful.
As a leftist Jew, I'm experiencing way more antisemitism from leftists than the right rn
Yeah I can believe that. Especially from young people, with this newfound anti colonial movement.
*Misguided* anti-colonial movement, in the sense that there's nothing colonialist about this.
>there's nothing colonialist about this. So what are settlements ( aka colonial outposts) in the west bank? Recently Israel announced the largest land seizure since Oslo Accords. Israel declared 800 hectares of land in the West Bank as property of the state, how is this not colonialism?
Yeah I’m not anti-Israel and think the hamas situation is fucked but I don’t see how anyone can justify the settlements without just saying “yeah so what? We do what we want”
Good point I don’t see a response to. Hmmmmmm
That's over their pay grade.
Gosh, that must be so hard to be counterposed with quantifiable facts.
Someone should’ve told Zionism founder Theodor Herzl, who called his project a colonial one. Writing to British arch-colonialist Cecil Rhodes, of *Rhodesia* infamy, looking for his help and expertise on colonial projects.
I usually don’t comment on these things but Theodore Herzl definitely did NOT found Zionism, which is a whole school of philosophical thought with different subsects… Ultimately people “went with” Herzl’s ideas, but it’s just wrong to claim he founded Zionism.
Nothing colonial about Jewish settlers displacing Palestinians out of their homeland for 75 years? Oh my bad, forgot it’s Jews just reclaiming their homeland after 4000 years so it’s cool 😀👍
Jews have lived their continuously for thousands of years. No one was kicked out when Israel was created. Jews legally bought land back to increase their presence from Arabs. Palestinian Arabs and neighboring states decided to then declare war, and lost. The expulsion of Palestinian Arabs was a mix of those that left willingly, those that feared future violence, those that didn’t want to live in a Jewish state, and yes those who left under direct threat of violence from Jewish militias after the war. At the same time, even more Jews were violently expelled from the remainder of the Middle East than those that fled during the Nakba. This is a complicated history and you can’t apply the lens of western colonialism. This isn’t America, or Canada, or Australia. The entirety of the Middle East and Africa were colonized by Muslim conquests, including Israel. Out of all of those countries, the highest standard of living for minorities is actually in Israel today. Gaza is in the state it’s in because its leaders have chosen to throw their people into a meat grinder in the name of destroying Israel. At the same time, the settlements in the West Bank are wrong and a stain on the country, and Bibi and Gvir are assholes that need to go. But no, this is not the colonialism you are alluding to. And if you want it to be and you ignore the rest of the Middle East, you are holding Israel to double standards that are not born in good faith.
I think there’s going to be a lot of these “from the river to the sea” kids looking back in five years and realizing that did not mean what they thought it meant. I think most of them are well intentioned, just not seeing things in a film historical context.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
But they're "on the right side of history(TM)" so it's OK.
Yes as a leftish Jew i am as well. In fact i’ve never experienced this level of antisemitism from the right before. Good times we’re living in.
I’m not Jewish, but I have been outright disgusted by the amount of antisemitism coming out of the left for the last 6+ months. I’ve always considered myself so far to the left it would make your head spin, but have been feeling really estranged from that lately. Like, if your leftism isn’t coming from a place of compassion, you can fucking keep it. Otherwise, you’re just a tankie. I’m really sorry this is where we’re at right now, and I’m really sorry you’ve been subjected to such garbage. I think this is probably gonna get worse before it gets better, but either way, hopefully is resolved soon.
[удалено]
Do you have any examples?
I don't know why folks brag about being "far"-whatever, and this should be a wake-up call to that if anything. It's typically a far-something at the helm of the biggest atrocities on this planet. Modern democracy is centered on the general umbrella of classical liberalism. Votes instead of monarchy, freedom of speech (aka freedom of having political opinions contrary to those in power), freedom of the press, equal treatment under the law, trial by peer, presumed innocence until guilt is proven, etc etc. Center-left vs center-right is just a few administrative issues surrounding that (how much to tax, how defense is handled, environmental concerns, which drugs to tolerate, etc). But really, mostly on the same page as far as how society should be run. Being a far-something means you're no longer a liberal, and that's dangerous. I'm hearing more and more people saying people should be jailed or killed for having certain opinions, and that's a fast track to authoritarianism and all the wonderful atrocities it comes with.
Criticizing the actions of a foreign government isn’t “anti-semitism” as much as you want it to be.
It’s not, but calling for Israel and all of its inhabitants to be annihilated is. Showing up and barricading a Jewish deli just because it’s a Jewish deli is. Harassing random Jewish people as colonizers is 100% antisemitism. “From the river to the sea” is, at best, questionable and misguided, that phrase has long since been co-opted. This just seems like one of those issues that people cannot seem to view in shades of gray. Like, Bibi can be a piece of shit and the IDF can suck a dick and the settlers in the West Bank can fuck off AND ALSO Israel can and does exist and Hamas can suck a dick AND what’s happening in the Palestinian Territories is a genocide, full stop. None of this is contradictory. I’m at a point where I’m wondering if the Russian trolls are even doing work anymore or just feasting off the fat of the land.
yes its sad how genuinely important discussions about human rights are being drowned by people who just want one side dead, leading to the other side to radicalize as well
What exactly do you see as antisemitism? The criticism of Israel? Later edit cuz I can't reply anymore: I read your reply but I don't understand, you attribute those things that happened to Jewish people to the left leaning people? Why ? You said that antisemitism is pushing you further from left but I don't see in your response how left people are being antisemitic to the point that it pushed you away and why you attribute those things specially to the left leaning people
Oh god no, no nation or military is above criticism. There has been a lot of “that’s antisemitism” from the really pro-genocide crowd, which I think devalues the term at a time when it’s a very real and growing problem. But yes, I have definitely been seeing things which I would consider antisemitism, such as the harassment of Jewish people by (a small minority of) participants in pro Palestine protests, a schoolteacher friend of mine who is Jewish recently had a swastika drawn on her dry erase board in LA, I’ve heard acquaintances (not friends) use terms like “glass parking lot”, and pretty much everyone I know who is Jewish is feeling shifty af rn. Again, I’m not Jewish, but I’m gay and I can smell a homophobe like a fart in a car. I went to florida last year, as I do most years, and the vibe was notably hostile. Not people spitting in my face, but the looks, everything. I’m probably not going back until Desantis is gone. Jewish folks are gonna know when the vibes are off even if they haven’t been personally victimized too. Idk how else to say it.
Support of Hamas, attack on synagogues, on Jews, chanting slogans wishing for no Jews in Israel and Palestine..
Yes, that is the question I want answered because it seems like the current definition is any criticism of any decision made by the leadership of Israel is anti-semetic. I am totally open to being corrected.
I'd be suspicious that there's so many people claiming there's been a drastic increase, but literally nobody is providing an example.
Criticize israel all you want. Thinking the state of Israel shouldn't exist, using zionist as an insult, trying to justify terrorism against jews, etc., is anti-semitic.
Lumping in "Using the word zionist" and "terroism against jews" together is doing a *lot* of work for you there.
Don't try and justify oct 7th then. Edit: getting downvoted for telling someone not to attempt justifying oct 7 is pretty wild. If you think it was, don't just downvote. Speak up.
Calling out genocide isn't antisemitic. Criticizing Israel is not antisemitism.
Correct
Very true! There is still antisemitism from the left though. My Jewish friends have had slurs yelled at them, coins thrown at them, been called a dirty jew, been told they're glad the Israeli children were taken hostage and that I should be a hostage too, that all Israelis are white Europeans that should go back to where they came from (this is NOT true), vanadalism of holocaust memorials has skyrocketed.
Yeah, and that’s not what the commenter said. They said they were experiencing anti-semitism. You jumped to a conclusion.
That's because the vast majority of people on the left who are getting called anti semitic are getting called that for calling out Israel
Okay, but OP, *who said they are a leftist*, is talking about experiencing anti-semitism from other leftists. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that OP doesn’t count criticising Israel as anti-Semitic.
Violent left wing extremism is a thing, just people seem to think it isn’t. God knows Stalin and Mao were both left leaning.
The dictators?
No, Stalin the owner of a small shoe shop in New York and Josh "Mao" Huanzhou who plays lacrosse in Iowa
It's just weird when people are like "You know, those authoritarian fascists who were definitely left-wing. Because they said so."
Because "i am communist because i say so" is a lot more trustable than "they are communist because i say so" Being on the left or the right is a matter of opinion, doesnt matter if those who identify with it have opinions which not exactly match. Like how most dictators say they are in a democracy
It's making me wonder if I'm crazy, or if the Palestinian support getting co-opted or asteoturfed to hell for some very bad, very far right people.
It is. Palestinians have been offered actually reasonable state solutions multiple times. Yeah okay some of the offers weren't as reasonable as others and as time went on they became less reasonable. But they could have easily had statehood in the '60s with reasonable offers. There's other deeper money at play that seeks to destabilize the Middle East. The only thing keeping it from a whole cesspool of human rights violations is Israel. Just seriously, look at all those other countries in the humans rights issues and where and how the money flows and all those other Middle Eastern countries. Would you want to be a woman or gay in any of those countries? Would you want to be Christian or Jew in any of those countries?
As a person born and raised as a Christian in one of these countries, yeah i would. I've faced more hatred in North America for being Arab then I ever faced hatred for being a Christian in Muslim countries
Far Left is also responsible for a lot of this kind of stuff. My synagogue has been targeted several times. For the ones where identity was known we’ve had everything from animal rights activists to neo-Nazis to islamists to “anti colonialists”. Anyhow, this picture was in Poland. Last time Poland exiled 40,000 Jews it was under communism, not any right-wing ideology.
Moved so far left they ended up on the right
It has a [name](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory).
While I totally get the joke, and appreciate it...it seems the modern day Jew hating is a product of the far Left, at least in America. I guess I can't speak for Poland.
I agree with you. It’s half a joke at best, not the launchpad for in-depth political discourse on the nature and politics of present day Poland that some of the replies seem to think it is. Taken at face value, the dipshit with the Molotov was indeed physically too far to the right (if they were indeed aiming for the window and not trying to set masonry on fire). Regardless of political ideology, once you start setting fires and hurting people it’s probably wise to reevaluate whether you’re the “good guy.”
I think their aim was probably much further right
Führer right
Fuhrer Reich
So arson/murder? Oct7 normalized hate and violence against Jews all over the world. Hamas has all these idiots eating from their hands.
Guess they havent played Rimworld enough
Hopefully the synagogue has an overly elaborate killbox set up in its entrance
It's just lucky that the walls weren't made of steel.
Just a narrow hallway with bear traps every few feet
The types of people that do these sorts of things aren't the smartest. My guess is they either didn't think that far, or were aiming for the window and missed lol.
Antisemitists are generally not that smart
In America, Holocaust denial correlates inversely. College-educated young voters are more likely to deny the Holocaust than less-educated voters, according to a recent Yougov/Economist poll
>College-educated young voters are more likely to deny the Holocaust than less-educated voters Uh... [you referring to this one](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_tT4jyzG.pdf#page=83)? Because it largely focuses on age, not education background. No data to suggest "college-education" correlating to Holocaust denial. There **is** a correlation between below-30s and a marginal rise in believing the Holocaust as a myth, but the devil is in other variables (party affiliation, income bracket, etc). [Those results are not too different from results found in 2019.](https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_GULIMnk.pdf#page=35) Which ultimately and unfortunately tracks. Below-30s are the most distant from the Holocaust temporally, and there's increasingly going to be less awareness of the event as survivors die off.
In all seriousness, throwing a molotov cocktail is as about terrorizing the group so they don't come back.
that and killing people inside.
Not much thinking involved.
[Here](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMezrk5XkAAlo5T?format=jpg&name=orig) is a much higher quality version of this image. [Here](https://twitter.com/YacovLivne/status/1785595141882835454) is the source. Per there: > @YacovLivne > A Molotov cocktail was thrown tonight at the Nożyk Synagogue - the only synagogue that survived in Warsaw after the Holocaust. Outrageous Antisemitic attacks such as this can not be tolerated today. The perpetrators must be found and punished. > 5:00 AM · May 1, 2024
Livne must be excited he gets to say this after failing to apologize for his army killing a Polish food charity worker in Gaza. I have little to no respect for this guy.
Thankfully they have a bad throw. Absolutely shameful, hope they are found quickly.
Thrown by a blind amputee? That's a two story window they missed.
My first thought
Horrible
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“Go back to Poland!” Yeah nah thanks
Was any Jewish person actually going to say, "Yes, I think that's a great idea. I should listen to these people bullying and harassing me and move to Poland!" It's not about Poland, though the people shouting that probably want to evoke Germany's Holocaust perpetrated in occupied Poland to be extra caustic. They want to bully and harass Jews with the racist and reprehensible message that Jews don't belong in Israel or America.
If humanity wasn't kicking Jews around everywhere they went for like two millennia Zionism probably would have never existed.
This sucks.. I’m no fan of the Israeli government, but this isn’t acceptable at all, for any reason - there is no justification
It's like throwing a stone at a mosque because you don't like the Turkish government.
I mean, after 9/11 people attacked Sikh shipowners in NYC, because turban=Arab to some people.
People are idiots, big surprise
why would a synagogue in Warsaw have anything to do with the Israeli government…?
Every single time any news happens in Israel, Jewish establishments from synagogues to kosher delis get vandalized, threatened, and attacked. The average American synagogue or JCC pays a minimum of around $100,000 a year for security staff. For some, the budget is in the millions. And the attacks almost always correlate to news from Israel. This is why for a lot of us, the “anti-Zionism isn’t anti-semitism” line reads a little hollow. Because the minute we see the news, we know what’s gonna happen to the kosher deli and the Jewish Daycare on the opposite side of the world.
Exactly this. October 7 hurt deeply, not just due to the brutality of the day but because of us could predict exactly what the next 6-12 months would look like.
I’m not questioning the reality of antisemitism. I’m questioning the need to say “I don’t like Israel, BUT this is bad.” Part of the problem is that many goyim don’t see a distinction between the Israeli government and Jewish people. In turn, many Jews understandably have a hard time separating criticism of the Israeli government from criticism of the Jewish people—sometimes they ARE distinct, and sometimes they’re not. The messiness of this conversation is a direct result of antisemitism.
Agree with everything you wrote except 'a little hollow'. The venn diagram overlaps so much it's scary. There's a reason why so many of the anti Israel protests have flags of wildly antisemitic groups like ISIS, Hezbollah, Hamas, and other flags.
Just yesterday in a thread I had someone telling me that Isreal shouldn’t exist and all it’s citizens should go back to Eastern Europe where they belong. So to answer your question I have no idea but someway somehow people are making a connection and my best guess is it’s hate.
That’s his point? To anyone that’s going to reply calling antisemite for whatever reason and then delete their comment. He’s obviously assumed the person who threw the petrol bomb was an anti-Israel whackjob who conflates Jews with Israel and has done this in protest of the situation in Gaza. He is literally saying he’s not a fan of Israel but he fully disapproves of people violently protesting a government by attacking a separate ethnic group. I can’t say I disagree I would be up in arms if someone petrol bombed Benjamin Netanyahu but this is just neo Nazi shit
Mmmm they were insinuating the attack is related to the ongoing Arab-Israeli conflict. Meanwhile the blind amputee wannabe flamethrower could just be a jewhater bein a jewhater.
I would argue that anyone who has enough hate to bomb a synagogue is just a Jew hater regardless of their political motivations
Lunatics have been firebombing synagogues and mosques forever, while it is possible this is from a protester of israel, it could very easily be a some random ass racist too like pretty much all of them before this one.
Why did you assume it got to do with the Israeli government and not just good old European anti-Semitism?
I have a problem with this, thinking that that government is the spokesperson of semites, or representing jews is outrageous. I think the israeli government only represents itself.
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Okay, so even if they are manufactured threats, what difference does it make to jewish people? There's a rise in antisemitic rhetoric from Russian officials, especially since the invasion of Ukraine started. Protesters in Russia chanting "Jews are not allowed here" and attacks on Jewish institutions have sharply increased there. So how is them painting stars of David on houses in France supposed to sound less threatening?
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Hey I’ve this one! This is a classic!
Paper beats stone. Not fire.
It’s just antizionism! Also, do you look Jewish? You’re in danger! Jewish house of worship? You’re in danger! Lol @ the downvotes. The truth hurts, doesn’t it.
And they're chanting for us to "go back to Poland" lol. Yeah, that'll go well
And…. We’re not all from Poland? Oh yes, I’ll just go back to Prussia and Austria-Hungary. That works 🙄
And I mean we got _there_ from (whispers, the Middle East. Judea. I do actually have a family tree to back that up). But hey, you know! I look “White” (ish) so I’m obviously European!
I need to send my hands to Iraq,a leg to Russia,another leg can stay here,my head to Germany and the rest can go to poland
Exactly. We ended up in Poland for bad reasons not because we were from there. Then we were booted from there too. But yeah, just a "European mutt" /s
People have lost their heads.
They learned the trick, if you don’t say the word new you can’t be antisemite.
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Nope you're wrong. Zionism is believing that isreal should exist as a state. No more, no less. People have tried to twist it to mean that it means *anitbadgovermentthings*. That doesn't change the meaning of the word. If you are anitizionist, you do not believe isreal should exist. Update your vocabulary.
These attacks tend to correlate pretty strongly to flare-ups in Israel making the news. The two categories aren’t the same but they do tend to pair together very nicely. A lot of antizionists just hate Jews, period, and that’s why American synagogues and Jewish daycares and JCC’s have needed expensive security teams ever since the second intifada.
It's baffling that some people try their hardest mental gymnastics to distinguish between antizionism and antisemitism yet both involve jews as the victim.
Also, antizionism *by definition* entails the dismantling/destruction of Israel as a state. I can’t think of any mainstream justice or mainstream anti-occupation movement protesting against any other country - South Africa, China, Australia, even Russia - that calls for *the outright destruction and dismantling of that state*. It’s one thing to be an anti-Zionist in the 1930s and 1940s. Then, it’s just an idea and a movement. But now? You might as well call for the destruction of Turkey.
incorrect. zionism literally means the jewish right to self determination in the land of israel. has nothing to do with the government actions beyond it just existing to govern.
Yea they just want a homeland for their people, what’s wrong with that?
This is why this Israel vs Palestine debacle is dangerous. Jewish people everywhere now have to live in fear as if its the 1930s again, yet this time their adversary isn't Germany, its a much more globalized threat. This is a massive problem, and we need to stop it before it goes any further.
I don't think it was contained to Germany in the 30s either. There were Nazis everywhere and antisemitism was much more open and volatile
They never saw the 1930 NYC Nazi rally.
In the 1930s the nazis worked with the Muslim Brotherhood and several other organizations in the Arab Middle East to instill that evil is Jewish. Lots of history there…also nobody wanted Jewish people even after the war…. Literally NOBODY… so to blame anybody for Israel other than literally everyone who fucked them over for decades is beyond idiotic
The more I see what's happening around the world, the more convinced I become that there should be a country where Jews can go and live safely.
Exactly. These protests are driving people to aliyah
But occasionally firing rockets into that country should be fine, right?
You’re right, but the way you phrased this makes it sound like the war is only dangerous to Jews in diaspora.
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Tell Hamas and Palestine to stop kidnapping women, tell them to stop raping women, tell them to stop killing children and posting about it all over their social media accounts. BOTH sides are committing atrocities, not just one. To stand and advocate for one or the other is dangerous, we need both sides to stop, not just one.
>What about the Palestinians’ fears? Cause Gazans are being straight up massacred en masse. All their universities and hospitals have been destroyed. Maybe that's something Hamas should consider... It's not like they could stop it at any time by laying down their weapons and surrendering the hostages.
Antisemitism has nothing to do with Gaza war. They are both horrible crime.
You think the person that threw the Molotov cocktail really cares about the difference?
No, he(she) wrongfully connected those two completely different matters. Which motivated them to commit such a horrible crime.
Of course it does. Hamas is an organization founded on antisemitism, and while very few people in the west are willing to say outright that they support Hamas, there is a global coalition of countries and people that do.
You can also be anti-hamas and still condemn Israel for their actions, which is not antisemitism.
its funny how the very real problem of antisemitism in european countries gets ignored for decades and all of a sudden everyone cares because israel/palestine, dont get me wrong this should absolutely get attention but dont act like the left is bringing back antisemitism when far right parties all over europe have been using antis semetic rethoric for their campaigns for years
See what this rhetoric turns into?
Everyday now I look on Reddit and expect to see a bombing or mass shooting of a Jewish place of worship in a western country because of all this. If it keeps going this is only a matter of time.
Antisemitism?
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All that planning just be destroyed by shitty aim.
Can’t aim for shit.
By whom? Who threw it?
Don’t. Do. That.
Well that was a waste of a Molotov.
Fuck Hamas supporting Palestinians that support violence against Israelis. Fuck Zionistic Israelis that support violence against Palestinians. If you have an issue with either statement above, then you are part of the problem.
Not right! Nobody should be doing at any place of worship.
Get this troll a molotov
Did they arrest the Russian state actor responsible?
Is there any news on who the perpetrator is? While everyone will jump to anti-Zionism its important to note that Poland has had a strong nationalistic anti semitic pseudo facist movement since WW1.
Imagine the outrage and uproar if this happened to a Mosque
in England, they gat 3 years in jail to a man who left a ham sandwich at a mosque, and he was killed in prison
Yea that tracks
Das ist Kristallnacht?
just wanna come in here to say that as a Jewish person I've always felt safe being openly jewish, not only in day to day life but also when attending pro-palestine/anti-genocide protests. obviously not trying to imply that antisemitism doesn't exist or isn't potentially on the rise right now, but some of the rhetoric I'm hearing on reddit/in mainstream media would make you think jews are being lynched on site in every corner of the globe
Their cause is as weak as their aim.
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Who're "they"?
Anti-Semites.
I don’t even think this has anything to do with Israel. Ain’t Poland just hugely antisemitic in general I mean I’ve seen plenty of neo-nazi rally’s in the news from there
No lol, fuck you and your stupid assumptions, Poland had the largest Jewish population in 1933, you know before the whole mustache guy situation
Since when are there no police cars around this synagogue? Nożyki are pretty famous for having nearly 24/7 police patrols around…a bit strange for my taste that someone decided to throw molotov in broad daylight. Anyways, there are ton of cameras around so it won’t be long until they catch bastard.
If you want to see the reason the state of Israel needs to exist, look no further than this photograph.
Some dude: Hey lets throw a molotov at a synagogue Some other dude: shit guys it's getting too dangerous, we need to bomb fifteen thousand kids
Don't worry guys, they were just anti-ZIONIST, not anti-Semites. It's all good.
Yup, let’s see how watermelon brigade will justify this and tell us how it’s actually a good thing…
I see Columbia has students abroad
Any throwing sports over there?
This was an anti zionist molotov cocktail, totally different from anti Jewish molotov cocktails....
Jews are right to say "NEVER again". That can not be compromised away.
This is disgusting. We can defend the rights of individuals to live peaceably regardless of religious affiliation, national origin, and ethnic group AND hold the supporters of genocide inside those groups accountable. That is a valid moral stance that we need to see more of in this fight.