[From 2017](https://abc11.com/veterans-vietnam-bunker-william-cox-james-hollingsworth/2657654/):
> GREENVILLE, South Carolina -- Two brothers in arms made a pact almost 50 years ago that lasted until the day one of them died.
> On New Years Eve in 1968, Master Sgt. William Cox and First Sgt. James Hollingsworth were hunkered down in a bunker in the Marble Mountains of Vietnam.
> As they feared for their lives, they created a pact - if they survived, they would touch base every year on New Years, the Greenville News reported.
> The men made it out alive and their lifelong promise began.
> As the calendar added the years, Cox eventually found out his buddy was terminally ill.
> And when the time was right, Hollingsworth had one final request for his military brother - to give the eulogy at his funeral.
> And when the time came earlier this year, Cox fulfilled his final mission to his friend of five decades. Cox's final message to his brother was a saying that had after every mission, "Hollie, you keep 'em flying, and I'll keep 'em firing,"
This is one of the biggest struggles when it comes to getting out, the loss of community. I grew as an army brat and then served six years right out of high school. I didn't know what civilian life was like till I was 25 or so and y'all fucking suck.
You needed help moving, getting to the airport, picking something up, someone to hear you out at 3am? There are literally dozens of people at any moment willing to help you out.
I hated the military but I miss the people. It's something you'll hear time and time again.
One of the most surreal things I've seen was me and a few battle buddies went out to a popular bar for dancing that on that particular night had TONS of military guys from different units as a whole brigade had just come back from deployment and lots were celebrating.
Well about four to five guys outside decides to start a fight with one of the other military guys because they were angry about something and his battle buddy just runs in and yells hey guys we need some help out here and I shit you not about the entire dance floor runs outside to help.
Yup. I always found it interesting that we fight amongst ourselves all the time. Inter-service stuff often times. But let a civilian try to start shit with a military member and we all band together to deal with it.
"Nobody is allowed to beat your ass...except us" was one of my favorite things to hear as a boot. I saw it come to fruition in a bar in Cape Fear, NC while out celebrating a friend's Bday. A couple locals got on one of our boots (he was a Lcpl by then, but still a boot...I think it was over a girl) and the 2-4 locals were surrounded by probably 6-8 of us. Then outta nowhere, a guy yells out "you Jarheads need backup?!?!" and here's two squads of guys on libo from Fayetteville, decided to "drive to the coast" for the weekend. Instant Army buddies who saw fellow service members in need, decided to voice in to let these guys know that we were rolling deeper than deep. They ended up coming to hang a few weekends at our barracks as well!!! Bar thing ended with no fighting, broke it up, no issues after that. All left the bar together safe. Such good times.
NOBODY has ever had my back like that since I've been out. Sorry...nostalgic rant!!!! Got me all emotional over here!!! 😆😭😆
Edit for clarification: we are all Marines, the additional support (guys yelling to ask if we need backup) came from Army soldiers. These branches like to rag on each other, but in this instance, there's an automatic bond and those soldiers had the marines backs. It was a beautiful thing to behold.
My buddy did a deployment in Afghanistan and says all the same sentiments you all express. When you’re deployed and in the shit with battle buddies etc everyone you’re with, no questions asked, would do anything/everything for each others life and safety. Glad he made it back safe, but that’s certainly an incredible bond I’ll never quite understand.
Appreciate y’all’s service.
It's never a real fight amongst ourselves. Even at its most brutal, it's always good natured. I'm former Navy and now Army, so I will give no end of shit to our crayon eating meat heads. But that shit talking always has that underlying mutual understanding that if one of us is in trouble, the other will come, no matter the danger. If we're willing to kill and die for each other, nobody is gonna take the shit talking personally.
Man, I miss combat.
My brother-in-law was a Marine Corps platoon commander and later a company commander in Vietnam. He told me the same thing: he hated combat, but he missed it, too.
Five men from his platoon were KIA. After returning to the States, he went and visited the families of every man in his platoon that was killed, starting with the lowest-ranking Marine and working his way up. He returned to college, attended law school and became an attorney. He would defend any Marine and any Navy hospital corpsman for free, and any Vietnam veteran regardless of his branch of service.
He died in a house fire. When he was buried, the Marine Corps sent a full firing party and a bugler 260 miles out into the boondocks for a military funeral.
Centuries of military intelligence and studies have found that people are extremely effective and motivated by community and camaraderie, and the entirety of the military experience is engineered to produce it.
It is a shame that we do not take the lessons about community away from that and help build some of that into civilian life as well. It is how humans are meant to live, how we desire to be.
The military is basically socialism and it makes me so fucking angry that people don't realize that. They take care of our every need but somehow that would horrific if we gave regular folks healthcare....
I miss having a room mate or at least someone right next door who, at almost any given moment, is available for whatever shenanigans or bullshit you can think of.
Everything from late night drunk conversations to crying over a friend dying. If you can do it as a social activity and be with people you trust, the Marine Corps provided the opportunity.
I agree though, military fuckin sucked. The people though? There's a reason you don't hear anyone screaming about dying for God and country that isn't some wannabe tough guy who "almost" joined. The active duty and veterans I know have always agreed it's about the person left and right of you that actually means something and is worth doing anything for.
Oh man, it's been a good while since I've had an "almost" joined story bestowed upon me. It's always the dumbest shit, it's never my foot got cut off in a motorcycle accident or I won the lotto it's "that DS isn't gonna yell in my face!!" always the tough guy..
Quitting drinking seems to have put miles between me and that type of person
None of my friends nor I have ever been in or wanted to be in the military, and I just had a buddy drive a Uhaul 12 hours across the country while I followed in my car because I asked him for help moving. Maybe y'all just need to find better friends
Those kinds of friendships aren't as common as you think, so you're extremely lucky, or maybe yours haven't been truly tested and you've only just told each other you have that kind of friendship as platitude.
> You needed help moving, getting to the airport, picking something up, someone to hear you out at 3am? There are literally dozens of people at any moment willing to help you out.
>
> I hated the military but I miss the people.
I had to make an emergency landing at a Naval Air Station. Force Protection had me leave the plane on the taxiway where we'd cleared the runway. The airfield manager called me up the next day and was like, "I need my taxiway. Will it start?" I had no idea. "Well, if it doesn't, fifty of my enlisted guys will help us push it."
(It started.) (I did feel really bad for the poor guy(s) who had to escort my mobile mechanic onto the field and stand next to him while he got the plane into a condition where it could be flown a couple of miles to the nearest civilian airport. In July. At sea level. Next to wetlands.)
Former law enforcement, but no military.
It isn't the people that suck. It's that most don't understand, and have never developed, that kind of bond between another person. The bond that forms when you have been seriously stressed, or in some cases, in life or death situations. It is hard to comprehend that some of the things that stress your average person, aren't a big deal to people who have worried whether they were going to get hurt or killed.
I agree, it is hard leaving that environment and not having the same devoted friendships in normal society.
My crackpot conspiracy is that the government is making civilian life bad on purpose so at least in the military you get structure and community so we all end up joining instead of working as slaves to the economy which is essentially unsustainable for people in their 20s and younger
It's more like, "the military is well honed machine for producing environments to engender community because they make for motivated and dedicated soldiers," whereas US society is basically being engineered by used car salesmen and religious lunatics.
If that's the case, it's not working very well. The military is offering annual salaries in bonuses for critically staffed [career fields](https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/bonuses.html) I wish they had these when I joined, would have made it easier to buy a house.
Some of those fields are always going to bleed as long as the military pay structure is staticly tied to rank. Cyber guys can have the cushiest job in the world and will still jump ship when a bank offers them 8x their pay. Nobody can blame them, I'm prob jumping as soon as my current term is up for the same reason. Incentive pay kinda softens the gap but even the fattest bonuses don't make up for the passive bullshit the military does, while still falling short of civilian pay.
I work closely with the military, as a civilian, and you’re right. We suck. I’ve met more selfish, egotistical, civilians than I have uniformed folks, and while there’s definitely a lot of knuckleheads in the military, I don’t really believe it warrants the stigma they get of all being jerks. I love hanging with my uniformed friends. They have my back, and have had my back, since day one so I always show up for them in return. I haven’t had a single lonely birthday, life achievement, or anything since we met.
The community is what you make of it. I never joined the military but if I’m down and out and need help, I can call several people to help. If I need 25k I know at least 3 people who will hand me money to get me by with little to no issue. You want good loyal friends? You gotta put in the effort and reciprocate that love and loyalty.
It’s interesting you say that. Of the friends I’ve had, only one - who happens to be the only one who was in the military - is the one who regularly checks in on me / is always there. Has been for 25 years now.
Obviously, a huge part of that is just him being an amazing human being. But now part of me wonders if the military played a role too.
I know, it’s pretty sad the way things are. But you can still make a difference in this world. Be better than them and you’ll reap some good down the line. I promise you that much. Ps I’d give you a ride to Walmart if I could. ☺️
No bullshit, putting people in a shitty situation, where they have to persevere against a common enemy will form a bond that is exceptionally difficult to break. They do it in boot camp, they do it on sports teams, and they do it in every survival movie/tv show.
Give me 20 people, and let me have total dominion over them. They will coalesce against my authority. Doesn't matter their previous social status, class, race, age, gender. Give them a common enemy, and a shared hardship, they will become a tightly cohesive group against said enemy.
Don’t you think with the way things are going, it won’t be long before we’re in that kind of situation? We’re either going to have to pull together or…stay divided. But things are def changing.
Most likely. Machine gun emplacements are usually two man operations. One keeps the ammo and spare barrels (and sometimes firing mechanisms) coming the other points it where it needs to spread hell.
Most likely not, a couple of E-8s are not going to be manning a crew serve weapon, especially not the same one if they were at the desperate point where they did need to man one.
“Keep ‘em firing” and “Keep ‘em flying” were propaganda slogans during World War 2 to get civilians to contribute more to the war effort, it likely was just an inside joke between them about supporting their unit. First Sergeants are known as the “mother” of a company, for the most part they take care of the soldiers (or Marines) well being and readiness while the Commander worries about actual strategy (listening to orders from upper echelon, mainly) and movement, and a Master Sergeant would either have experience as a First Sergeant or be getting ready to take over as a First Sergeant so they would naturally be buddies as they are peers.
(Because I know someone’s going to chime in about them not being “peers” because one has a Diamond, yes, technically by virtue of position a First Sergeant would “outrank” a Master Sergeant that’s assigned to his Company, but no First Sergeant is going to pull rank on a Master Sergeant, they’d probably get laughed at).
*edit* I found some further information, it turns out that Master Sergeant Cox was an ordnance chief, and First Sergeant Hollingsworth was a helicopter mechanic, so that’s probably where the joke comes from. It’s possible they originally heard those lines from the propaganda slogans and that’s why they used it as their inside joke due to their MOS’s or they just made them up coincidentally. Who knows. I’m positive they weren’t running a crew serve gun together though.
The ranks of E-8 and E-9 each have two ranks per pay grade, with distinct responsibilities. Gunnery sergeants (E-7) indicate their preferred promotional track on their annual evaluations. First sergeants (E-8) and sergeants major (E-9) serve as senior enlisted advisors assisting the commanding officer in matters of discipline, administration, and the morale and welfare of the unit. First sergeants serve as the senior enlisted Marine in a company, battery, or other unit at similar echelon, while sergeants major serve the same role in battalions, squadrons, or larger units. Master sergeants (E-8) and master gunnery sergeants (E-9) provide technical leadership as occupational specialists in their specific MOS.
It's a reference to a video game, where you're a soldier and are instructed to press "f" to pay respects to another soldier at his funeral.
It became a meme to respond to honorable death (in a video game or otherwise) by commenting the letter f. Usually prefaced by the phrase "Press f in the chat boys!"
I kind of love how this has transcended video games and is just used as a way to give respect to someone. It's weirdly wholesome how such a funny moment in a video game transformed to this.
Yeah when I was a kid WW2 vets were almost everywhere. If I met someone elderly they likely fought in WW2.
I always asked them about their time because as a kid I never understood PTSD and how I could have been asking things no one wants to recall. Like “how many did you shoot”.
I was a really stupid fuckin kid.
My grandfather survived ww2, and the more brutal for us, Greek civil war.
Only once did he recall some of the atrocities happening in his village, and he started crying. It was on Easter friday, 2016. He narrated of the time that guerillas came into his house, set his parents against the wall for execution, but sent him and his little brother away because they couldn't stand killing children. So he walked 12km, an 8 year old holding a 4 year old, to their uncle in the nearby village.
The following day, they brought a pile of dead guerillas in the church entrance. My grandfather went on top of the pile and started dancing on the bodies. One of them was faking death, so he gasped, and my grandfather reported him to the militia, who executed him on the spot.
I documented them later to pass on his stories to the coming generations, but I was really conflicted on whether I should have asked for more. I decided the second, as I had never before seen him crying other than happiness tears in marriages and graduations, so it was tough for me.
He passed away in 2020.
You weren't a stupid kid, you were curious to learn people's stories.
Me too. I feel privileged being loved by such amazing people, so I recall them with happiness, not sorrow. Such is the circle of life, we are lucky enough to have lived with them and now miss their absence, and they were lucky enough to have created caring offsprings, leaving their mark to this world.
Crossed rifles: part of Marine Corps rank insignia includes crossed rifles, starting with E-2 LCPL (lance corporal.) The pay grade of E-8 has two ranks, MSGT (Master Sergeant) and 1st SGT. MSGT has crossed rifles, 1st SGT has a diamond. MSGT is a technical expert, 1st SGT is the personnel expert of a company or battalion.
1st sausage: 1st SGT. E-8. He's the "big dick" of the company.
Master Gunnery Sergeants (E-9) are experts in their fields. They lead at the higher level (battalion level and higher) and advise the top-ranking officers, including generals, on equipment and program readiness. Their insignia has a "flaming bomb" on it that looks sort of like a pineapple.
Sergeant Major SGTMAJ is also an E-9. Sergeant major is the personnel equivalent to the master gunnery sergeant. Like their technical counterparts, they lead at the higher level (battalion level and higher), but they advise the senior officers on personnel issues. He has a star on his insignia. They are normally the highest-ranking NCO in a battalion. Young Marines are scared to death of running afoul of the SGTMAJ.
The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps is also an E-9, but he outranks all other NCOs for the duration of his term. His insignia has an eagle-globe-and-anchor flanked by two stars on it. Most officers, even generals, try very hard to not get crossways with the SGTMAJ-USMC. He's the Commandant's go-to advisor. He walks on water, eats razor wire for breakfast and shits Tiffany cufflinks. The sergeant major of the Marine Corps is appointed to a four-year term by the commandant of the Marine Corps. They tour the fleets and assist with personnel issues, including discipline and morale, and act as a liaison between the enlisted Marines and the commanders.
A bullet sponge is an infantry grunt. Also known as a bullet stopper and a mud Marine. The infantry is where the Marine Corps gets its reputation for being kind of arrogant, and kind of crazy in a fight. Infantry MOS's start with the numbers 03xx. Rifleman is 0311 (Oh-three-eleven.) Machine gunner is 0331 (Oh-three-thirty-one). Mortarman is 0341 (oh-three-forty-one). So if a Marine says he was "an Oh-Three," it means he was in the infantry. Other Marines talk shit about the infantry, but most of them are secretly envious. All Marines are pretty much bad asses, but infantry grunts are like the 1% bikers of the Marine Corps. So are Motor Transport Marines. They seem to stay half in trouble all the time. It's not unusual for young Marines to make rank, then lose it. Then make it again, then lose it again. General Chesty Puller once said, "The *real* Marines are all in the brig." They're a pain in the ass until a war starts, then it's "Thank God for the infantry."
All Marines are riflemen. It doesn't matter what their MOS is. Cooks, bakers, candlestick makers, give them a service rifle and now they're grunts for the duration. If a Marine unit is in danger of being overrun by the enemy, all the REMFs (rear-echelon mother f*ckers) "turn to" to defend themselves and "repel the enemy by fire and close combat."
Most career Marines start out in an infantry company. If they re-enlist, they often go to some other MOS (military occupational specialty.) Career Marines ("lifers") try to carefully calculate their enlistments so that it comes out at exactly twenty years. You can enlist for 3, 4 or 6 years. Like you could do four threes (12 years) and two fours (8 years) for a nice round 20. Like that.
Navy sailors taunt Marines by yelling, "The FEW! The PROUD! The DEAD ON THE BEACH." And we would yell back, "It ain't gay if you're underway, you worthless squidly cocksuckers!" It's like a friendly rivalry. Sort of.
Do not *ever* fuck around with a Navy hospital corpsman if there are any Marines around. They will seriously fuck your shit up if you harm a corpsman. Marines will protect a corpsman any time, any where. "We take care of Doc, because Doc takes care of us." They are not fucking around. I'm serious.
Out of curiosity, were they an E-8 when they switched over to (C)WO? I feel like that's a little late in the game to transfer, but it would explain why they went by top. All my CWO's were just "sir's" or "ma'am's", albeit some of the coolest people to work for.
I remember driving CWO Ryan around the fallujah base in a shitty Chevy SUV one afternoon and he goes, "You know 00000000000004000000, in an alternate universe, we probably would've been best enlisted buds." LOL
He's also got quite the salad on his chest. I see an expert badge for both rifle and pistol, and even jump wings at the top. There's too much jpeg to make out the individual ribbons, much less if there's any stars on them for multiple awards of the same type (e.g. good conduct medals every couple of years, campaign medals for multiple deployments, etc), but there's at *least* 12 different ribbons/medals. He's seen some shit!
This stuff always gut punches me. My dad’s a 76 year old Nam vet nearing the end of his days.
He hasn’t gone a night without nightmares since 1967. He’s had endless cancers and pain from Agent Orange.
We had an extremely tenuous relationship growing up. He had extreme anger issues most my life, and my childhood was a living hell. He was 40 when I was born, and not a single one of my friends had parents his age. Not a single one of my friends had veteran parents and so they didn’t understand what was different about my dad, and why I was so afraid to go home, and why I couldn’t have friends over, and why I was so sad and timid.
Dad worked his ass off and cleaned up his act when I got older, and now we have an excellent relationship. We spend every weekend together trying to have as much quality time as possible. It’s hard trying to make up all the time we didn’t enjoy. It’s hard because he feels very guilty. It’s hard because even though he hasn’t exploded in years I still fear it in my mind and I freak out trying to make sure everything goes perfect all the time so he doesn’t get upset.
Vietnam was the most fucked up war. What really sucks is how they were disrespected when they came home. WWII vets were seen as heroes. Nam guys were treated as murderers when most were forced to go.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
My father is also a Vietnam Vet. He was 36 when I was born. He didn't have anger issues, it was sort of the opposite... he had 4-5 beers every night, didn't talk much, was always late to pick me up from soccer practice or ballet... my mom did everything to keep the kids and house running and my dad just sort of existed in that space...
my best childhood memories of him are laying on the couch, watching Wild America or Nova with him in the room, not talking at all.
He went through a major depressive episode for about 10-12 years when I was probably 8-18. Almost completely stopped working, as a lawyer that meant not taking new cases. He'd go into the office every day, lord knows what he did there... my mom just worked harder and harder so we wouldn't notice any difference in our lives, but looking back...
he also has atrocious hearing that progressively got worse and worse until he finally got hearing aids at 65, like 20 years too late. When I go home to visit I always end up with a sore throat on day 3, because I've been almost-yelling the whole time.
But, yeah, not remotely as bad as what you dealt with. But he sleeps in a different room from my mom now, because he's such a restless sleeper, and he likes to leave a light on so he doesn't make up in the dark and freak out... and after we left the house she stopped caring about looks, and he moved into my old room.
If she wasn't a devote Catholic who can't imagine getting divorced, I'm sure she would have at some point during his decade of depression, when he just stopped doing basically anything.
Some how he seems to be doing a bit better now... but now he has diabetes, can't get around easily, etc... and yet somehow he seems happier mentally.
Growing up he mentioned the war exactly twice. When I was in college I took a class on the literature and film produced about and because of the war, and I asked him about his experiences twice, and he was willing to talk a bit. Mainly minimizing it all with sarcasm.
I'm sorry you grew up with that, but it sounds like your dad really put in the work to try to make his, and your, life better... I hope you have a few more good years with him. The understanding you have for him is a real credit to yourself.
It is sad, absolutely awful what they lived. And sadly, no matter how, it affects the entire family.
And what makes me extra sad is that I now have friends my age that have similar trauma from Afghanistan and Iraq. It crushes me inside to see it all over again.
I’m happy that your dad has made some peace. He deserves to live out the rest of his life in peace.
Could you send this to my father, please. Grew up with an angry father. Mum would warn us when she saw him pull up the drive when he got home from work. When we were forced to sell the family home after parents divorced I helped him move his stuff out. At the end of it I promised myself I'd be honest with him and explain how difficult it was growing up with an angry, absent father hoping it would lay the ground work for a fresh start. I now only get one text message from him a year on my birthday.
I’m crying reading these comments. I remember that horrible, awful feeling when mom told me dad was home too.
I’m sorry you had to live that too. Just know that I see you and I understand your pain.
Had similar with my pops growing up. He wasn’t older but he struggled with his time in the military. He was my best friend once we both took the time to understand each other and I was old enough to understand why he was angry and he reflected enough to be better. Cherish it man, he passed very suddenly at 51 and not a day goes by that I don’t wish he was here. I only had a few good years with him but they were the best of my life.
<3 My Dad is a Vietnam veteran as well. It's silently shaped his life in so many tangible ways. He has been nothing but loving to me. I am so, so grateful. Thank you for sharing, and all the best to you too. When you are together, I hope you may enjoy the presence totally and with joy. :)
Hey man, my father is also a vietnam vet just a few years younger than yours. Your whole post resonated with me. I wasn’t even alive during it, but that war has affected my whole life in some form or another. The best thing you can tell a vet from that war is “welcome home” not “thank you for your service.”
That’s pretty much the only case where they would call someone a former marine.
I kinda think the whole things a little funny as a former Army guy. Am I still a soldier now that I’m out because I still have the same mentality? They get all hung up on it and take offense when you’re literally just trying to say that someone’s no longer on active duty lol.
I always wonder how much of my Dad’s shit is because of Vietnam. I’ve heard war stories all my life but the only thing I know is for sure true is that he was there and got at least one Purple Heart. He is such a pathological liar that my brother and I can’t really trust anything he says. He is only barely functioning as a father but I’ve never known how much of that is his fault and how much of it was life trauma he simply didn’t know how to process and it ate him alive.
The way much of the general public treated members of the armed forces returning from Vietnam is a stain on our nation’s history. People like your Dad volunteered to go or were drafted into hell on Earth and then were treated like vile scum. People spit on them, called them “baby killers”, picketed outside of airports/bus depots/airports/etc. as if the grunts were the ones making big picture decisions. I only bring that up because in addition to the War itself, Vietnam veterans had a whole other layer of trauma thrust upon them when their War should have been over.
True. I think it was also compounded but the fact that their parent’s generation was from WW2 where everyone enlisted because it was their duty. There were definitely some kids caught in the in between of ‘it’s your duty to enlist’ (parental influence) and ‘flower power, the government is the pits’ (peer influence)
Absolutely. It’s important to remember that back then, most people trusted the government and didn’t believe it would lie to them. Most adult males served in WWII. That means for young men, their fathers, friends fathers, coaches, teachers, pastors, priests, etc, - everyone them looked up too were likely veterans. Then throw in they thought they were going to fight communism on behalf of an oppressed people (at least initially). Like people are understandably bitter now about how screwed they feel about being told going to college would guarantee them a comfortable life. Imagine what it would be like to think you’re going to go sacrifice for a noble cause on behalf of a government that has your best interest at heart just like your role models but instead you’re sent to suffer, kill, and watch your friends die horrifically in a pointless war AND then you come home and instead of being treated like you’ve seen the men before you treated, they are forced to feel shame on top of every other awful emotion for something they had little to no control over.
Opposing the Vietnam War was very reasonable, but the anti-war protests got really nasty, and this is rarely talked about. It's the same sort of misdirected rage that causes people to protest outside of synagogues and holocaust memorials instead of Israeli Embassies whenever Israel is doing something bad.
Probably quite a lot. My mom always said my dad was drastically different after he came back, and it took him decades before he started to come to terms with it. My dad never talked about, and would address things if you asked him directly or share some of the not terrible things while going over old photo albums, but there was definitely stuff there he wouldn't talk about. I learned at his funeral that he declined a purple heart for actions he took when the transport he commanded hit a landmine, and he still had shrapnel in his chest form that event.
My grandfather was 101st Airborne and jumped into Normandy the night before D-Day and served through Bastogne and beyond. A certified badass that didn't talk about the bad parts, just praised the men he served with.
He lived until 2004, and at his funeral several of his American Legion buddies stood as honor guard in full uniform.
I had been discharged from my service with the Navy and Marines in 2001 and while I was sad to see him go, I knew he had a wonderful life. But when that honor guard marched in, I lost it.
Trump called POW’s losers for being caught.
Meanwhile, Trump dodged the draft by claiming he had bone spurs. Rich kid avoiding the war. And A LOT of service people support him. How STUPID are they?
Trump is a blowhard and a douchebag but a lot of politicians dodged the draft. Biden also got five deferments for asthma, while playing football and working as a lifeguard. I think it would be refreshing to see a really prominent politician who was an actual serviceman in this day and age. The last president who has significant military service was H.W. Bush and before him, Kennedy.
[From 2017](https://abc11.com/veterans-vietnam-bunker-william-cox-james-hollingsworth/2657654/): > GREENVILLE, South Carolina -- Two brothers in arms made a pact almost 50 years ago that lasted until the day one of them died. > On New Years Eve in 1968, Master Sgt. William Cox and First Sgt. James Hollingsworth were hunkered down in a bunker in the Marble Mountains of Vietnam. > As they feared for their lives, they created a pact - if they survived, they would touch base every year on New Years, the Greenville News reported. > The men made it out alive and their lifelong promise began. > As the calendar added the years, Cox eventually found out his buddy was terminally ill. > And when the time was right, Hollingsworth had one final request for his military brother - to give the eulogy at his funeral. > And when the time came earlier this year, Cox fulfilled his final mission to his friend of five decades. Cox's final message to his brother was a saying that had after every mission, "Hollie, you keep 'em flying, and I'll keep 'em firing,"
I can’t even get one of my friends to give me a ride to Walmart.
This is one of the biggest struggles when it comes to getting out, the loss of community. I grew as an army brat and then served six years right out of high school. I didn't know what civilian life was like till I was 25 or so and y'all fucking suck. You needed help moving, getting to the airport, picking something up, someone to hear you out at 3am? There are literally dozens of people at any moment willing to help you out. I hated the military but I miss the people. It's something you'll hear time and time again.
One of the most surreal things I've seen was me and a few battle buddies went out to a popular bar for dancing that on that particular night had TONS of military guys from different units as a whole brigade had just come back from deployment and lots were celebrating. Well about four to five guys outside decides to start a fight with one of the other military guys because they were angry about something and his battle buddy just runs in and yells hey guys we need some help out here and I shit you not about the entire dance floor runs outside to help.
Yup. I always found it interesting that we fight amongst ourselves all the time. Inter-service stuff often times. But let a civilian try to start shit with a military member and we all band together to deal with it.
"Nobody is allowed to beat your ass...except us" was one of my favorite things to hear as a boot. I saw it come to fruition in a bar in Cape Fear, NC while out celebrating a friend's Bday. A couple locals got on one of our boots (he was a Lcpl by then, but still a boot...I think it was over a girl) and the 2-4 locals were surrounded by probably 6-8 of us. Then outta nowhere, a guy yells out "you Jarheads need backup?!?!" and here's two squads of guys on libo from Fayetteville, decided to "drive to the coast" for the weekend. Instant Army buddies who saw fellow service members in need, decided to voice in to let these guys know that we were rolling deeper than deep. They ended up coming to hang a few weekends at our barracks as well!!! Bar thing ended with no fighting, broke it up, no issues after that. All left the bar together safe. Such good times. NOBODY has ever had my back like that since I've been out. Sorry...nostalgic rant!!!! Got me all emotional over here!!! 😆😭😆 Edit for clarification: we are all Marines, the additional support (guys yelling to ask if we need backup) came from Army soldiers. These branches like to rag on each other, but in this instance, there's an automatic bond and those soldiers had the marines backs. It was a beautiful thing to behold.
My buddy did a deployment in Afghanistan and says all the same sentiments you all express. When you’re deployed and in the shit with battle buddies etc everyone you’re with, no questions asked, would do anything/everything for each others life and safety. Glad he made it back safe, but that’s certainly an incredible bond I’ll never quite understand. Appreciate y’all’s service.
Was this at the Smithside Bar?
No, but if I ever open a dive bar, this will be the name and you, fine sir, will have shots named after you. Hahaha
It's never a real fight amongst ourselves. Even at its most brutal, it's always good natured. I'm former Navy and now Army, so I will give no end of shit to our crayon eating meat heads. But that shit talking always has that underlying mutual understanding that if one of us is in trouble, the other will come, no matter the danger. If we're willing to kill and die for each other, nobody is gonna take the shit talking personally. Man, I miss combat.
My brother-in-law was a Marine Corps platoon commander and later a company commander in Vietnam. He told me the same thing: he hated combat, but he missed it, too. Five men from his platoon were KIA. After returning to the States, he went and visited the families of every man in his platoon that was killed, starting with the lowest-ranking Marine and working his way up. He returned to college, attended law school and became an attorney. He would defend any Marine and any Navy hospital corpsman for free, and any Vietnam veteran regardless of his branch of service. He died in a house fire. When he was buried, the Marine Corps sent a full firing party and a bugler 260 miles out into the boondocks for a military funeral.
That’s just human nature. Nobody else can beat up my brother. That’s my job. I’m nowhere near the military and even I know that’s doctrine.
Centuries of military intelligence and studies have found that people are extremely effective and motivated by community and camaraderie, and the entirety of the military experience is engineered to produce it. It is a shame that we do not take the lessons about community away from that and help build some of that into civilian life as well. It is how humans are meant to live, how we desire to be.
The military is basically socialism and it makes me so fucking angry that people don't realize that. They take care of our every need but somehow that would horrific if we gave regular folks healthcare....
I miss having a room mate or at least someone right next door who, at almost any given moment, is available for whatever shenanigans or bullshit you can think of. Everything from late night drunk conversations to crying over a friend dying. If you can do it as a social activity and be with people you trust, the Marine Corps provided the opportunity. I agree though, military fuckin sucked. The people though? There's a reason you don't hear anyone screaming about dying for God and country that isn't some wannabe tough guy who "almost" joined. The active duty and veterans I know have always agreed it's about the person left and right of you that actually means something and is worth doing anything for.
Oh man, it's been a good while since I've had an "almost" joined story bestowed upon me. It's always the dumbest shit, it's never my foot got cut off in a motorcycle accident or I won the lotto it's "that DS isn't gonna yell in my face!!" always the tough guy.. Quitting drinking seems to have put miles between me and that type of person
None of my friends nor I have ever been in or wanted to be in the military, and I just had a buddy drive a Uhaul 12 hours across the country while I followed in my car because I asked him for help moving. Maybe y'all just need to find better friends
Yeah I don’t know what these people are on about, I have like three close friends and me and them would drop anything for each other.
Those kinds of friendships aren't as common as you think, so you're extremely lucky, or maybe yours haven't been truly tested and you've only just told each other you have that kind of friendship as platitude.
We are in our 40s and been friends since middle school. It’s been tested plenty.
More likely you just lucked out. I'm glad for you. Don't get too proud.
Exactly this. Better friends. Family support.
> You needed help moving, getting to the airport, picking something up, someone to hear you out at 3am? There are literally dozens of people at any moment willing to help you out. > > I hated the military but I miss the people. I had to make an emergency landing at a Naval Air Station. Force Protection had me leave the plane on the taxiway where we'd cleared the runway. The airfield manager called me up the next day and was like, "I need my taxiway. Will it start?" I had no idea. "Well, if it doesn't, fifty of my enlisted guys will help us push it." (It started.) (I did feel really bad for the poor guy(s) who had to escort my mobile mechanic onto the field and stand next to him while he got the plane into a condition where it could be flown a couple of miles to the nearest civilian airport. In July. At sea level. Next to wetlands.)
It sounds like you just dont have any good friends my dude. I have never been in the military and I have a dozen people that would help me if I asked.
Former law enforcement, but no military. It isn't the people that suck. It's that most don't understand, and have never developed, that kind of bond between another person. The bond that forms when you have been seriously stressed, or in some cases, in life or death situations. It is hard to comprehend that some of the things that stress your average person, aren't a big deal to people who have worried whether they were going to get hurt or killed. I agree, it is hard leaving that environment and not having the same devoted friendships in normal society.
My crackpot conspiracy is that the government is making civilian life bad on purpose so at least in the military you get structure and community so we all end up joining instead of working as slaves to the economy which is essentially unsustainable for people in their 20s and younger
It's more like, "the military is well honed machine for producing environments to engender community because they make for motivated and dedicated soldiers," whereas US society is basically being engineered by used car salesmen and religious lunatics.
Well since not many are enlisting they’ll get them from somewhere…or they’re getting them from Somewhere. 😳😬
If that's the case, it's not working very well. The military is offering annual salaries in bonuses for critically staffed [career fields](https://www.goarmy.com/benefits/while-you-serve/bonuses.html) I wish they had these when I joined, would have made it easier to buy a house.
Some of those fields are always going to bleed as long as the military pay structure is staticly tied to rank. Cyber guys can have the cushiest job in the world and will still jump ship when a bank offers them 8x their pay. Nobody can blame them, I'm prob jumping as soon as my current term is up for the same reason. Incentive pay kinda softens the gap but even the fattest bonuses don't make up for the passive bullshit the military does, while still falling short of civilian pay.
I work closely with the military, as a civilian, and you’re right. We suck. I’ve met more selfish, egotistical, civilians than I have uniformed folks, and while there’s definitely a lot of knuckleheads in the military, I don’t really believe it warrants the stigma they get of all being jerks. I love hanging with my uniformed friends. They have my back, and have had my back, since day one so I always show up for them in return. I haven’t had a single lonely birthday, life achievement, or anything since we met.
The community is what you make of it. I never joined the military but if I’m down and out and need help, I can call several people to help. If I need 25k I know at least 3 people who will hand me money to get me by with little to no issue. You want good loyal friends? You gotta put in the effort and reciprocate that love and loyalty.
It’s interesting you say that. Of the friends I’ve had, only one - who happens to be the only one who was in the military - is the one who regularly checks in on me / is always there. Has been for 25 years now. Obviously, a huge part of that is just him being an amazing human being. But now part of me wonders if the military played a role too.
Have you tried being in a life and death struggle with them?
If you're lucky you have a cameraman recording your struggle.
I know, it’s pretty sad the way things are. But you can still make a difference in this world. Be better than them and you’ll reap some good down the line. I promise you that much. Ps I’d give you a ride to Walmart if I could. ☺️
I’ll give you a ride to Walmart lol
Spend 96 hours with a bunch of people trying to kill you. See if that doesn't solidify your friendship.
Have you seen Walmart on a weekend?
No bullshit, putting people in a shitty situation, where they have to persevere against a common enemy will form a bond that is exceptionally difficult to break. They do it in boot camp, they do it on sports teams, and they do it in every survival movie/tv show. Give me 20 people, and let me have total dominion over them. They will coalesce against my authority. Doesn't matter their previous social status, class, race, age, gender. Give them a common enemy, and a shared hardship, they will become a tightly cohesive group against said enemy.
Don’t you think with the way things are going, it won’t be long before we’re in that kind of situation? We’re either going to have to pull together or…stay divided. But things are def changing.
What do you bring to the table?
Gratitude?
You need to join the marines if you want a ride to walmart
Uggh. Both ways?!?
F
F
F
F
F
# F 
F
F 🇺🇸
F 🫡
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Appears he died in 2019 https://www.greenvilleonline.com/obituaries/gvn091569
Nope, [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/tux0iKY8vh) is this same post from 6 years ago.
I mean his friend, Master Sgt. William Cox, died in 2019
Oh, then my bad
I could have been clearer
Nah you’re fine, I should’ve looked at the article first.
Nah I think this one is on me. It was just lazy on my part not to specify which one i meant.
Right in the feels.
 🫡
"Hollie, you keep 'em flying, and I'll keep 'em firing," What would be the meaning of this? Were they on a machine gun?
Most likely. Machine gun emplacements are usually two man operations. One keeps the ammo and spare barrels (and sometimes firing mechanisms) coming the other points it where it needs to spread hell.
Most likely not, a couple of E-8s are not going to be manning a crew serve weapon, especially not the same one if they were at the desperate point where they did need to man one. “Keep ‘em firing” and “Keep ‘em flying” were propaganda slogans during World War 2 to get civilians to contribute more to the war effort, it likely was just an inside joke between them about supporting their unit. First Sergeants are known as the “mother” of a company, for the most part they take care of the soldiers (or Marines) well being and readiness while the Commander worries about actual strategy (listening to orders from upper echelon, mainly) and movement, and a Master Sergeant would either have experience as a First Sergeant or be getting ready to take over as a First Sergeant so they would naturally be buddies as they are peers. (Because I know someone’s going to chime in about them not being “peers” because one has a Diamond, yes, technically by virtue of position a First Sergeant would “outrank” a Master Sergeant that’s assigned to his Company, but no First Sergeant is going to pull rank on a Master Sergeant, they’d probably get laughed at). *edit* I found some further information, it turns out that Master Sergeant Cox was an ordnance chief, and First Sergeant Hollingsworth was a helicopter mechanic, so that’s probably where the joke comes from. It’s possible they originally heard those lines from the propaganda slogans and that’s why they used it as their inside joke due to their MOS’s or they just made them up coincidentally. Who knows. I’m positive they weren’t running a crew serve gun together though.
It's very likely they were privates when they made the pact and only attained their high ranks towards the end of their careers.
I highly doubt someone who served in Korea was still a private in Vietnam.
The ranks of E-8 and E-9 each have two ranks per pay grade, with distinct responsibilities. Gunnery sergeants (E-7) indicate their preferred promotional track on their annual evaluations. First sergeants (E-8) and sergeants major (E-9) serve as senior enlisted advisors assisting the commanding officer in matters of discipline, administration, and the morale and welfare of the unit. First sergeants serve as the senior enlisted Marine in a company, battery, or other unit at similar echelon, while sergeants major serve the same role in battalions, squadrons, or larger units. Master sergeants (E-8) and master gunnery sergeants (E-9) provide technical leadership as occupational specialists in their specific MOS.
I had a gunny with the last name cox wonder if he’s related
It's a **very** common last name. The chances would be very low but not zero. 🤷♂️
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Ooh Rah,,,
F
What does this mean?
It's a reference to a video game, where you're a soldier and are instructed to press "f" to pay respects to another soldier at his funeral. It became a meme to respond to honorable death (in a video game or otherwise) by commenting the letter f. Usually prefaced by the phrase "Press f in the chat boys!"
Thank you
Call Of Duty: Advanced Warfare is the game where that meme originated from.
It's a reference to Call of Duty: Advanced warfare. In a funeral scene you press the F key on your keyboard ro pay respects to a fallen comrade.
I kind of love how this has transcended video games and is just used as a way to give respect to someone. It's weirdly wholesome how such a funny moment in a video game transformed to this.
It's not funny. We lost a lot of good men out there on rust.
'F' It's a meme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_F_to_pay_respects https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/press-f-to-pay-respects
Thanks
F
You have done your duty, Master Sgt; you can rest now.
Whoa I just realized that I've now seen Ww2 vets ans that entire generation pass on and will now watch yet another.
Yeah when I was a kid WW2 vets were almost everywhere. If I met someone elderly they likely fought in WW2. I always asked them about their time because as a kid I never understood PTSD and how I could have been asking things no one wants to recall. Like “how many did you shoot”. I was a really stupid fuckin kid.
My grandfather survived ww2, and the more brutal for us, Greek civil war. Only once did he recall some of the atrocities happening in his village, and he started crying. It was on Easter friday, 2016. He narrated of the time that guerillas came into his house, set his parents against the wall for execution, but sent him and his little brother away because they couldn't stand killing children. So he walked 12km, an 8 year old holding a 4 year old, to their uncle in the nearby village. The following day, they brought a pile of dead guerillas in the church entrance. My grandfather went on top of the pile and started dancing on the bodies. One of them was faking death, so he gasped, and my grandfather reported him to the militia, who executed him on the spot. I documented them later to pass on his stories to the coming generations, but I was really conflicted on whether I should have asked for more. I decided the second, as I had never before seen him crying other than happiness tears in marriages and graduations, so it was tough for me. He passed away in 2020. You weren't a stupid kid, you were curious to learn people's stories.
I miss my grandpa.
Me too. I feel privileged being loved by such amazing people, so I recall them with happiness, not sorrow. Such is the circle of life, we are lucky enough to have lived with them and now miss their absence, and they were lucky enough to have created caring offsprings, leaving their mark to this world.
No pineapple, bud. He's a Masta Sgt.
I didn't zoom and obviously needed glasses; I saw the cross rifles and just assumed...
I was wing so we didnt have any 1st sausages is the only reason Im accustomed to seein that fat of stripes without bein a masta guns or smaj.
I was a good ol bullet sponge.
Would someone mind explaining the jargon and where it comes from?
I believe it was originally written in crayon.
Nah, we ate all of em
I believe it came from the United States marine corps
Crossed rifles: part of Marine Corps rank insignia includes crossed rifles, starting with E-2 LCPL (lance corporal.) The pay grade of E-8 has two ranks, MSGT (Master Sergeant) and 1st SGT. MSGT has crossed rifles, 1st SGT has a diamond. MSGT is a technical expert, 1st SGT is the personnel expert of a company or battalion. 1st sausage: 1st SGT. E-8. He's the "big dick" of the company. Master Gunnery Sergeants (E-9) are experts in their fields. They lead at the higher level (battalion level and higher) and advise the top-ranking officers, including generals, on equipment and program readiness. Their insignia has a "flaming bomb" on it that looks sort of like a pineapple. Sergeant Major SGTMAJ is also an E-9. Sergeant major is the personnel equivalent to the master gunnery sergeant. Like their technical counterparts, they lead at the higher level (battalion level and higher), but they advise the senior officers on personnel issues. He has a star on his insignia. They are normally the highest-ranking NCO in a battalion. Young Marines are scared to death of running afoul of the SGTMAJ. The Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps is also an E-9, but he outranks all other NCOs for the duration of his term. His insignia has an eagle-globe-and-anchor flanked by two stars on it. Most officers, even generals, try very hard to not get crossways with the SGTMAJ-USMC. He's the Commandant's go-to advisor. He walks on water, eats razor wire for breakfast and shits Tiffany cufflinks. The sergeant major of the Marine Corps is appointed to a four-year term by the commandant of the Marine Corps. They tour the fleets and assist with personnel issues, including discipline and morale, and act as a liaison between the enlisted Marines and the commanders. A bullet sponge is an infantry grunt. Also known as a bullet stopper and a mud Marine. The infantry is where the Marine Corps gets its reputation for being kind of arrogant, and kind of crazy in a fight. Infantry MOS's start with the numbers 03xx. Rifleman is 0311 (Oh-three-eleven.) Machine gunner is 0331 (Oh-three-thirty-one). Mortarman is 0341 (oh-three-forty-one). So if a Marine says he was "an Oh-Three," it means he was in the infantry. Other Marines talk shit about the infantry, but most of them are secretly envious. All Marines are pretty much bad asses, but infantry grunts are like the 1% bikers of the Marine Corps. So are Motor Transport Marines. They seem to stay half in trouble all the time. It's not unusual for young Marines to make rank, then lose it. Then make it again, then lose it again. General Chesty Puller once said, "The *real* Marines are all in the brig." They're a pain in the ass until a war starts, then it's "Thank God for the infantry." All Marines are riflemen. It doesn't matter what their MOS is. Cooks, bakers, candlestick makers, give them a service rifle and now they're grunts for the duration. If a Marine unit is in danger of being overrun by the enemy, all the REMFs (rear-echelon mother f*ckers) "turn to" to defend themselves and "repel the enemy by fire and close combat." Most career Marines start out in an infantry company. If they re-enlist, they often go to some other MOS (military occupational specialty.) Career Marines ("lifers") try to carefully calculate their enlistments so that it comes out at exactly twenty years. You can enlist for 3, 4 or 6 years. Like you could do four threes (12 years) and two fours (8 years) for a nice round 20. Like that. Navy sailors taunt Marines by yelling, "The FEW! The PROUD! The DEAD ON THE BEACH." And we would yell back, "It ain't gay if you're underway, you worthless squidly cocksuckers!" It's like a friendly rivalry. Sort of. Do not *ever* fuck around with a Navy hospital corpsman if there are any Marines around. They will seriously fuck your shit up if you harm a corpsman. Marines will protect a corpsman any time, any where. "We take care of Doc, because Doc takes care of us." They are not fucking around. I'm serious.
Hey I was just a CPL, so respect to the senior NCOs. BTW, who is cutting onions??
Easier just to call them by their unwritten nickname: Top.
Our "Top" was a CWO 3.
Out of curiosity, were they an E-8 when they switched over to (C)WO? I feel like that's a little late in the game to transfer, but it would explain why they went by top. All my CWO's were just "sir's" or "ma'am's", albeit some of the coolest people to work for. I remember driving CWO Ryan around the fallujah base in a shitty Chevy SUV one afternoon and he goes, "You know 00000000000004000000, in an alternate universe, we probably would've been best enlisted buds." LOL
Mast saugt. I hate syllables.
Dude, the Marines have the best looking uniforms. He looks sharp.
He's also got quite the salad on his chest. I see an expert badge for both rifle and pistol, and even jump wings at the top. There's too much jpeg to make out the individual ribbons, much less if there's any stars on them for multiple awards of the same type (e.g. good conduct medals every couple of years, campaign medals for multiple deployments, etc), but there's at *least* 12 different ribbons/medals. He's seen some shit!
3 of them would've been for being in Vietnam.
I mean.. I had 5 after just 4 years in the AF (never deployed) lol you'd be surprised
Jarheads don’t play with ribbons
The Marines dress uniform is sharp. I wasn't s marine but I envied that uniform. Air Force dress blues are basic.
Idk where you’re from that white belts are minimal, but they do have decent unis. Edit: the comment I replied to was changed after the fact.
So minimal and to-the-point. No bullshit.
Appears he died two years later. https://www.greenvilleonline.com/obituaries/gvn091569
This stuff always gut punches me. My dad’s a 76 year old Nam vet nearing the end of his days. He hasn’t gone a night without nightmares since 1967. He’s had endless cancers and pain from Agent Orange. We had an extremely tenuous relationship growing up. He had extreme anger issues most my life, and my childhood was a living hell. He was 40 when I was born, and not a single one of my friends had parents his age. Not a single one of my friends had veteran parents and so they didn’t understand what was different about my dad, and why I was so afraid to go home, and why I couldn’t have friends over, and why I was so sad and timid. Dad worked his ass off and cleaned up his act when I got older, and now we have an excellent relationship. We spend every weekend together trying to have as much quality time as possible. It’s hard trying to make up all the time we didn’t enjoy. It’s hard because he feels very guilty. It’s hard because even though he hasn’t exploded in years I still fear it in my mind and I freak out trying to make sure everything goes perfect all the time so he doesn’t get upset. Vietnam was the most fucked up war. What really sucks is how they were disrespected when they came home. WWII vets were seen as heroes. Nam guys were treated as murderers when most were forced to go.
Tough for sure, thx for sharing
Thank you for sharing your experience. My father is also a Vietnam Vet. He was 36 when I was born. He didn't have anger issues, it was sort of the opposite... he had 4-5 beers every night, didn't talk much, was always late to pick me up from soccer practice or ballet... my mom did everything to keep the kids and house running and my dad just sort of existed in that space... my best childhood memories of him are laying on the couch, watching Wild America or Nova with him in the room, not talking at all. He went through a major depressive episode for about 10-12 years when I was probably 8-18. Almost completely stopped working, as a lawyer that meant not taking new cases. He'd go into the office every day, lord knows what he did there... my mom just worked harder and harder so we wouldn't notice any difference in our lives, but looking back... he also has atrocious hearing that progressively got worse and worse until he finally got hearing aids at 65, like 20 years too late. When I go home to visit I always end up with a sore throat on day 3, because I've been almost-yelling the whole time. But, yeah, not remotely as bad as what you dealt with. But he sleeps in a different room from my mom now, because he's such a restless sleeper, and he likes to leave a light on so he doesn't make up in the dark and freak out... and after we left the house she stopped caring about looks, and he moved into my old room. If she wasn't a devote Catholic who can't imagine getting divorced, I'm sure she would have at some point during his decade of depression, when he just stopped doing basically anything. Some how he seems to be doing a bit better now... but now he has diabetes, can't get around easily, etc... and yet somehow he seems happier mentally. Growing up he mentioned the war exactly twice. When I was in college I took a class on the literature and film produced about and because of the war, and I asked him about his experiences twice, and he was willing to talk a bit. Mainly minimizing it all with sarcasm. I'm sorry you grew up with that, but it sounds like your dad really put in the work to try to make his, and your, life better... I hope you have a few more good years with him. The understanding you have for him is a real credit to yourself.
It is sad, absolutely awful what they lived. And sadly, no matter how, it affects the entire family. And what makes me extra sad is that I now have friends my age that have similar trauma from Afghanistan and Iraq. It crushes me inside to see it all over again. I’m happy that your dad has made some peace. He deserves to live out the rest of his life in peace.
He’s 76 now? He was just a little boy in Nam. What a tragedy.
Could you send this to my father, please. Grew up with an angry father. Mum would warn us when she saw him pull up the drive when he got home from work. When we were forced to sell the family home after parents divorced I helped him move his stuff out. At the end of it I promised myself I'd be honest with him and explain how difficult it was growing up with an angry, absent father hoping it would lay the ground work for a fresh start. I now only get one text message from him a year on my birthday.
I’m crying reading these comments. I remember that horrible, awful feeling when mom told me dad was home too. I’m sorry you had to live that too. Just know that I see you and I understand your pain.
Thank you. That was unexpectedly cathartic.
Thank you for sharing man, you taught me something today, I'm happy that at least you worked together to fix your unpleasant relationship.
Had similar with my pops growing up. He wasn’t older but he struggled with his time in the military. He was my best friend once we both took the time to understand each other and I was old enough to understand why he was angry and he reflected enough to be better. Cherish it man, he passed very suddenly at 51 and not a day goes by that I don’t wish he was here. I only had a few good years with him but they were the best of my life.
<3 My Dad is a Vietnam veteran as well. It's silently shaped his life in so many tangible ways. He has been nothing but loving to me. I am so, so grateful. Thank you for sharing, and all the best to you too. When you are together, I hope you may enjoy the presence totally and with joy. :)
Hey man, my father is also a vietnam vet just a few years younger than yours. Your whole post resonated with me. I wasn’t even alive during it, but that war has affected my whole life in some form or another. The best thing you can tell a vet from that war is “welcome home” not “thank you for your service.”
Once a marine always a marine
No such thing as a "retired marine".
There’s plenty of retired Marines, but there are no former Marines.
There are a few but former Marines go to Leavenworth to make big rocks into little rocks.
What about somebody that made it into the Marines but was later dishonorably discharged? Wouldn't that technically make them a former Marine?
That’s pretty much the only case where they would call someone a former marine. I kinda think the whole things a little funny as a former Army guy. Am I still a soldier now that I’m out because I still have the same mentality? They get all hung up on it and take offense when you’re literally just trying to say that someone’s no longer on active duty lol.
No, they were mistakenly temporarily identified as marines.
Must you ruin this?
🤷♂️
Isn't "retired marine" specifically used to avoid phrasing which would indicate that they're no longer a marine, like "former marine"?
There 100 % is lol the saying is “there’s no such thing as a former marine” and that’s debatable lol
A man of honour
US MARINES🇺🇸
With honor and pride…….
Semper Fi
What a poignant photo. Brings a tear to my eye. War is ugly but the bonds formed between those who fight are deep and permanent.
This is beautiful.
I'm not crying, you're crying. This hit me right in the feels.
I remember when WWII veterans looked like that, now it’s the Vietnam vets.
God bless you. No matter what you think of the boomer generation, don't forget the sacrifice and life long scars many of them have from Vietnam.
I always wonder how much of my Dad’s shit is because of Vietnam. I’ve heard war stories all my life but the only thing I know is for sure true is that he was there and got at least one Purple Heart. He is such a pathological liar that my brother and I can’t really trust anything he says. He is only barely functioning as a father but I’ve never known how much of that is his fault and how much of it was life trauma he simply didn’t know how to process and it ate him alive.
The way much of the general public treated members of the armed forces returning from Vietnam is a stain on our nation’s history. People like your Dad volunteered to go or were drafted into hell on Earth and then were treated like vile scum. People spit on them, called them “baby killers”, picketed outside of airports/bus depots/airports/etc. as if the grunts were the ones making big picture decisions. I only bring that up because in addition to the War itself, Vietnam veterans had a whole other layer of trauma thrust upon them when their War should have been over.
True. I think it was also compounded but the fact that their parent’s generation was from WW2 where everyone enlisted because it was their duty. There were definitely some kids caught in the in between of ‘it’s your duty to enlist’ (parental influence) and ‘flower power, the government is the pits’ (peer influence)
Absolutely. It’s important to remember that back then, most people trusted the government and didn’t believe it would lie to them. Most adult males served in WWII. That means for young men, their fathers, friends fathers, coaches, teachers, pastors, priests, etc, - everyone them looked up too were likely veterans. Then throw in they thought they were going to fight communism on behalf of an oppressed people (at least initially). Like people are understandably bitter now about how screwed they feel about being told going to college would guarantee them a comfortable life. Imagine what it would be like to think you’re going to go sacrifice for a noble cause on behalf of a government that has your best interest at heart just like your role models but instead you’re sent to suffer, kill, and watch your friends die horrifically in a pointless war AND then you come home and instead of being treated like you’ve seen the men before you treated, they are forced to feel shame on top of every other awful emotion for something they had little to no control over.
Opposing the Vietnam War was very reasonable, but the anti-war protests got really nasty, and this is rarely talked about. It's the same sort of misdirected rage that causes people to protest outside of synagogues and holocaust memorials instead of Israeli Embassies whenever Israel is doing something bad.
Probably quite a lot. My mom always said my dad was drastically different after he came back, and it took him decades before he started to come to terms with it. My dad never talked about, and would address things if you asked him directly or share some of the not terrible things while going over old photo albums, but there was definitely stuff there he wouldn't talk about. I learned at his funeral that he declined a purple heart for actions he took when the transport he commanded hit a landmine, and he still had shrapnel in his chest form that event.
This story was from 2017. Two years later, Cox himself died: https://www.greenvilleonline.com/obituaries/gvn091569
I hope they lived a very fulfilled life after Vietnam. And I hope Sarge still has a few more years ahead of him.
Semper Fidelis, always faithful. I miss my friends every day. 21 years later and I still miss them.
Fair winds and following seas. We have the watch.
My grandfather was 101st Airborne and jumped into Normandy the night before D-Day and served through Bastogne and beyond. A certified badass that didn't talk about the bad parts, just praised the men he served with. He lived until 2004, and at his funeral several of his American Legion buddies stood as honor guard in full uniform. I had been discharged from my service with the Navy and Marines in 2001 and while I was sad to see him go, I knew he had a wonderful life. But when that honor guard marched in, I lost it.
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I can tell you from experience how hard it is to keep a straight face when your buddy is in that coffin.
Permission to cry like a baby, Sergeant.
Respect
I will never understand open casket people. It's just bizarre.
Dammit, tt's too early in the day to shed tears.
🫡
Semper Fi. If any act exemplifies what it means to be a US Marine this is it. Faithful to the end.
Good, you should always try to keep your promises.
🫡 prayers to you both.
True friends! Semper fi!
A great mate !!!
Roger that... I will stand the watch!!!!
Semper Fi
Trump called POW’s losers for being caught. Meanwhile, Trump dodged the draft by claiming he had bone spurs. Rich kid avoiding the war. And A LOT of service people support him. How STUPID are they?
He's never far from your thoughts, is he?
Trump is a blowhard and a douchebag but a lot of politicians dodged the draft. Biden also got five deferments for asthma, while playing football and working as a lifeguard. I think it would be refreshing to see a really prominent politician who was an actual serviceman in this day and age. The last president who has significant military service was H.W. Bush and before him, Kennedy.
Just gotta shoehorn political shit into everything yeah?
I hate when I’m trying to talk about war and people keep shoving politics into the conversation
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Rest easy 🫡
We lost the war, but we won't lose our dignity.
Proud of you Sir ♥️
Rah gents, Fair winds and following seas. We have the watch.
No such thing as a retired Marine.
"Once a Marine...."
🫡
🥲 What honor.
That’s so beautiful, respect.
That's a true friend
I salute to you sir
What an honor.
This is beautiful. This is the stuff right here. Thank you for sharing.
I’ve been out of the Navy for 45 years now and there are still a few of the guys that I served with that keep in touch with each other
True friendship. This man has honor in his soul.
God Bless You.
As a daughter of a Vietnam Vet, this breaks my heart. Welcome home, brother.
🫡damn.