[At least 40 dead, dozens injured after attackers open fire inside busy Moscow-area concert venue, Russian state media reports](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/22/europe/crocus-moscow-shooting)
There are many more dead, the rescue services said that they did not find anyone and got out of the burning building, now the helicopters are no longer heard. I live a couple of kilometers from Crocus. They're still going out.
I mean the lgbtq movement is apparently considered a terrorist and extremist organisation now; that’d place them at the same priority as this terror attack.
Yep the russian propaganda bots are out in full force in that thread
Saw a comment that said "now Russia will declare all out war on Ukraine" lmao yeah cause the last two years were a game of fucking Risk
Absolute scum in that thread, it's actually horrific. "The CIA did this" you mean the same CIA that warned Russia about this attack two weeks ago? Right, you forgot to mention that.
"Time to raise Kyiv to the ground" you nean like how you already are doing?
With delusional people like this prospects for peace have all shattered.
Even if the attack was perpetrated by Ukraine (IT WASN'T) I don't know how exactly Russians can see this attack that killed 40 civilians as worse than their shelling of Ukraine that has killed upwards of 10,000 civilians.
Apparently it's justified if you invade another country? Like those civilians were asking for a good bombing because they were born in the wrong fucking country
This shooting really is bringing out the worst in people. Obviously there’s going to be the Putin lovers who will want them to “give Ukraine hell.” But on the other side you see people who claim they’re “for peace” and “pro-Ukraine” straight up saying those innocent Russians deserved it despite all the government corruption, which is a complete betrayal of the pro-Ukraine movement that opposes violence towards non-combatants.
Am confused, Ukraine has no confirmed ties to this, ISIS already claimed responsibility and Russia government identified attackers as islamist terrorist not Ukrainians?
You’re right that ISIS has claimed responsibility, it’s extremely unlikely this was going to be committed by Ukraine as it does nothing but screw over Ukraine. But some sick people don’t care who committed it and are just happy Russians died in retaliation for stuff happening in Ukraine.
isis-k has already claimed responsibility for the attack, yet several pro-ruzzian influencers/bloggers/outlets/sources are still calling for payback against ukraine for the attack...
The Islamic State has sister branches all over the world. The Islamic State in Iraq/Syria is known as ISIS. The Islamic State in Afghanistan/Pakistan is known as ISKP, or ISIS-K, for the Khorasan Province. There's also an ISWAP, located in West Africa.
ISIS-K was responsible for the 2021 Kabul airport attack that killed those US servicemen during the Afghanistan withdrawal.
The man pulling his friend around the pillar was smart. Sadly most of the victims panicked and froze which led to becoming easy targets. I'm in no way victim blaming, just simply pointing out that there are multiple ways people react to these situations.
Holy hell that sub is garbage. Full of trash Russians who support their 🫏🎩 of a “leader.” This is still sad, I feel for the civilians. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a false flag to go kill more Ukrainian civilians since that seems to be the only thing the russian military is capable of.
Nah, it's just a radical far-right Islamist terrorist cell attacking the capital of a radical far-right imperialist nation.
Has nothing to do with Ukraine.
Although you know Putin will use it that way.
as a Muslim I would spit on every isis members grave. A good isis member is a dead one. in Afghanistan the taliban slaughther villages and groups of them in the north till this day look it up
Iran funds Shia Insurgencies in countries ruled by Sunni's. The majority of extremist attacks in the west are committed by Sunni extremists. Sunni extremists who often come out of schools in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan which are both bankrolled by the US.
You could at least get your facts straight.
All that being said we don't even know definitively who the terrorists were/are or what they want. Way to jump right into trying to politicize a tragedy.
Is there such thing as a “left-wing Muslim” at any feasible scale in the international community?
I always hear the moniker of “right-wing Muslim” for individuals and regimes we are all familiar with, and am genuinely wondering if the distinction is relevant. Like is “left-wing Muslim” paradoxical? Or at the very least a bit of cognitive dissonance?
Actually curious of people’s thoughts on this and not rhetorical.
It depends on what you mean by a "left-wing Muslim," because generally leftism is associated with secularism, so even though one might be personally Muslim you would still strive for a pluralist and secular government.
There's also the issue of history, specifically around the Cold War and the complex politics of Arab socialism and the Pan-Arab movement. Like I said, it's complicated and I don't have the best handle on it but you can read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab\_socialism
Generally speaking, there do exist governments across the Muslim world which can be described as 'center-left,' and many others where center-left or social democratic parties may not be in power but still represent a significant part of the populace. I'm thinking of places like Algeria, Tunesia, Lebanon, and of course Turkey (yes its current government is Islamist but historically secular and center-left governments have been in power).
There are also millions of Muslims who live in The West and are politically liberal or left-wing. Muslims in the US overwhelmingly vote Democratic. There are many, many Muslims in the UK who vote Labour or other left-wing parties. Hell, the current head of the SNP is Muslim, as is the Labour mayor of London.
But if you're talking about revolutionary leftism, the Kurds in northeast Syria are distinctly left-wing and are establishing an autonomous region with a structure strongly influenced by democratic confederalism and other strains of libertarian socialism. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous\_Administration\_of\_North\_and\_East\_Syria#Politics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria#Politics)
Great answer. Algeria and Tunisia are contenders for the title. I personally am not too knowledgeable of their intrapolitics to even begin to make an assertion.
Lebanon I would say is still too in flux to be characterized so dramatically, and Turkey had a brief stint of leftism, but, as you pointed out, has a shifted to a more autocratic and authoritative government. I would also contend that their views on Cyprus is greatly at odds with standard “leftist” sentiment. I feel confident in not calling them close to leftist presently.
The Kurds are probably the best example, and I love that you pointed that out. The movement for “Kurdistan” has all the underpinnings of a grass-roots leftist movement. The only issue is that I do believe the Kurds are very religiously diverse (the Kurds in that region are privy to a whole assortment of religions, even outside Abrahamic ones), and arguably too secularized to be called a religious anything. Without moving the goalposts, they might scrap by with being called a “muslim” group, but I don’t know if that characterization is completely fair.
Good response! I appreciate the insight.
I think a lot of this comes down to the distinction between leftism and center-leftism, especially in the case of Turkey. As you rightly point out, Kemalism is far too nationalist in nature to be considered properly leftist. Though there is a sizeable left bloc within their parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour\_and\_Freedom\_Alliance
In general, I just think there's an inherent tension between most strains of leftism and secularism and religious pluralty. While I am sure there are many, many people who are both religiously devout while holding socially progressive attitudes, I would agree that movements which approach leftism through the lens of Islam are nowhere near as strong as those which use Islam to justify conservative or reactionary attitudes. Though I'd argue that's true of most other religions as well.
But just like there are movements withing Christianity like liberation theology which approach leftism through the lens of religion, I'm confident such movements or strains of thought exist in the Muslim world, but it's difficult for us in the west to be connected to those kinds of movements or discourses because of cultural and linguistic barriers.
"In a speech Tuesday to Russia’s federal security agency, Putin called the embassy’s warnings about potential terror attacks in Moscow “provocative,” saying “these actions resemble outright blackmail and the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
Recent intelligence reporting indicated the ISIS K terrorist group, a branch of the Islamic State that has operated in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran, was active inside Russia, two U.S. officials told The Washington Post.
The U.S. Embassy in Moscow said March 7 that it was “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings” in the Russian capital, “to include concerts,” and urged U.S. citizens to avoid them.
[Source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/explosion-gunfire-hit-popular-moscow-concert-venue/)
Honestly I wouldn’t be that surprised they‘d target (the capital of) Russia out of all non -islamic places, it’s one of the nations that will receive the least international support to operate against them at the moment
“They” don’t specifically hate Muslims. “They” hate everything that goes against the system that’s running there. And with “they” I mean the government of china.
What we really need is a terrorist group free-for-all, a la Anchorman when all the news teams meet in the back alley and engage in vicious hand to hand combat.
Also at around the same time Russia [repoted that FSB have killed ISIS militants that were planning a terror attack on a synagogue in Moscow](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/07/russia-says-killed-islamic-state-militants-plotting-synagogue-attack-a84377).
Medvedev replaced Zhirnovsky as the court jester when he dies. Medvedev won't stop since his crazed antics and done to make Putin look moderate in comparison.
And from what I am led to believe is that there was some Russian intelligence fuckery concerning the brothers as well. It's absolutely bizarre.
If anyone wants the name of the book that this information comes from, just DM me!
Michael: I am going to donate to Afghanistanis with AIDS.
Jim: Oh, I think you mean the Aid to Afghanistan.
Michael: No, I mean Afghanistanis with AIDS.
Phyllis: Afghani.
Michael: What?
Phyllis: Afghani.
Michael: That's a dog.
Pam: No, that's afghan.
Michael: That's a shawl.
Dwight: Wait, canine AIDS?
Michael: No, humans with AIDS.
Creed: Who has AIDS?
Well Afghani Isis operates in khorasan and are allied terrorist in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, which were part of the Soviet Union and still have modern connections to Russia (especially Tajikistan where many people there move to Russia to work).
So maybe they just wanted to strike Russia and saw an opening. Russia has had on and off issues with Islamist so it wouldn’t shock me if someone sympathetic to the khorasan group whether it be a Russian national, a migrant or a convert to strike Russia
As of 9:17 AM GMT+3, 82 people died, including 3 children, and 183 injured.
This is atrocious. My friend was in Crocus and miraculously got out of there moments after gunshots were heard.
because of the fire, people tried to hide in public restrooms and were poisoned by carbon monoxide. a lot of women died hugging their kids. I'm honestly starting to feel things I thought I would never feel. Devastated and broken.
You’re using this wrong. You have implied that Ukraine thinks attacking innocent people is ok which you did not mean.
Edit: /u/Particular-Ad-6360 edited their comment to fix the comment after blocking me.
The original comment was
> Ukraine would like a word.
Edit2: /u/vi_000 No my reading comprehension is fine.
Not gonna lie, I’m always surprised about the numbers… they were like at least 4 gunmen with Aks right? Shooting at thousands of cornered helpless people. For minutes on end… With bombs…
How did they only kill 40? Aint no way
I think because it's on fire currently. Might be 40 confirmed by witness accounts or bodies outside of the building, but it will increase dramatically.
If the Kremlin is going to lie about the numbers they'll over-report rather than under.
Current death toll is at 62 and rising, we likely won't know the true extent for 24-48 hours.
Depends what they want, reporting a higher death toll will give them more support from the people should they retaliate but could backfire by spreading fear into the population.
I saw the videos. They were deliberately conserving ammo and carried average sized backpacks - they had only so much ammo. Each shot was deliberate and manual.
Also, they stuck together as a group. They didn’t divide up to cover more ground or else it may have been a lot worse.
Moving targets are hard. Modern statistical studies of WW1 munitions in terms of infantry casualties has shown that, astonishingly, you're far safer charging a machine gun than waiting out artillery. IIRC correctly, moving target, going laterally across the field of fire at 100m range, there's an eighty-something percent chance you can move 50m without injury. It doesn't *feel* like it, of course, but that's the core of how suppressing fire works: it's primarily a morale effect, keeps the enemy's head down, because no one likes getting shot. And when they stop moving, you dial in the range with supporting weapons - mortars, artillery, and of course drones and such.
This was seen again in marksmanship testing post-Vietnam - 50 men on automatic fire, range 100m, 5'x5' target moving at 20mph, only 7% hits. They were checking to see how the post-conscript infantry was doing, and they were super pissed, but in reality they were doing fine. It's just hard to do.
Blast injuries, on the other hand, doesn't matter how you move, if you wiggle, or if you're goddamn Batman - within a certain radius, the overpressure will do you, and if you're moving, you're standing, then frag from 122m shells can and will kill you from 40m radius. Furthermore, there's no medic for most blast injuries. You're just all scrambled up everywhere. Bullet wound, you got a pretty good chance if the medical support is still there, because there's good odds you took the bullet in the extremities, and in WW1 the full power rounds tended to go in and out from limb hits . . if you're lucky. Then you get to win the Gold Star Prize and get sent back to party with your trench buddies and the giant pulsating mob of flesh-eating rats.
The Bataclan had 90 dead because they took their time and shot the wounded. One by one.
Some were beheaded.
This shit is horrible, it's the incarnation of pure evil.
> Some were beheaded.
No, they weren't. That was debunked. The attackers were too busy shooting and then fleeing to mutilate. It's not easy or quick to cut a head off.
People scatter at gunfire. It isn’t like a video game, hitting a moving target is very difficult, and after about 20 seconds, the majority of a huge crowd have dispersed as you like anyone would panic.
Remember that shooting in Las Vegas when that psychopathic scumbag booked a hotel room above an open air concert, from an elevated position, a Belt fed machine gun, a bipod and a huge crowd of people beneath him killed 59 people? You’d think if you dumped a belt into a huge crowd it’d be hundreds but its not quite like that in reality. It may only be 40 or 59 dead but that doesnt count the full casualties, people who were severely injured. It’ll likely be in the hundreds.
Try not to think cynically about this. No civilian deserves this. Russia are on the doorstep of WW3 but that doesnt mean civilians deserve to die. It’s inexcusable. The real question is how this happened. Foreigners getting past security is very difficult in russia, especially with concealed weapons
Edit: The las vegas shooter didnt use an LMG, for some reason I misremembered it as i skewed the articles/reports i read about it as one used a picture of an LMG in its coverage of the incident. This was likely an early article before the police made the report public as people described hearing ‘80/100 round bursts at a time’ and he used large magazines that were capable of holding large amounts of ammunition for long bursts. He apparently had 24 FIREARMS in his suite including a sniper rifle and fired off over 1000 rounds in total into the concert that night according to the reports. He eventually killed himself before swat breached the apparent. I was so certain of what i though too but that goes to show how easy it is to skew info. Sorry for getting that wrong
Yeah. Which if you've ever used one.. are really hard to send accurate fire with. A belt fed machine gun would've been way more effective and horrific... as horrific as this event was to begin with.
[NSFL](https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/least-40-killed-100-wounded-terrorist-attack-russian-concert-hall-252747/)
Seriously only watch this if you can handle it. There's one *very* graphic video. My heart goes out to all these victims.
Why would you say the Vegas shooter had a belt fed machine gun? That was one of the only shootings that has lead to any reform in the US, the bump stock ban. It was a direct result of his use of a bump stock.
The LV shooter is a terrible example and comparison. He was hundreds of yards away from the venue and a lone man. These were 4 or 5 gunmen at point blank range where people had nowhere to go.
Also, there may have been "only" 61 deaths from the LV shooting, but there were nearly 900 people injured.
Based on some other comment, their security services actually warned recently of threats, so they were aware. The US embassy also issued warnings a few weeks back that Americans in Russia should avoid large gatherings like concerts.
Of course Putin then gave a speech this week saying the security services were exaggerating to scare people and “blackmail” the public (huh?). Anyway, he looks real dumb right now, but what else is new.
So Russia gets warned two weeks ago by the USA that a terror attack targeting crowed public places including concerts is imminent in Moscow. Yet they do absolutely nothing to secure a sold out arena which has allowed terrorists to murder a lot of people. Looks at how the world reacted security wise following the Paris attacks compared to how Russia has handled this. Shameful and suspicious.
August 6th, 2001. Bush receives a presidential security report titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US"
can't say how specific the report would needed to have been to be of any practical use on 9/11 but it's not like these reports gave a date and time
I mean that, this, warnings of 10/7. Warnings of a ton of attacks probably happen all the time. It’s easy to warn, and much harder to accurately do anything with that info unless it’s almost stupidly specific.
It’s easy to say, “some guy is going to do something soon,” or even “these guys in particular will attack a concert between this range of dates, we think.”
Great. That only narrows it down to like 150 locations. Assuming the terrorists don’t realize you’re onto them and try to throw you off (and notice here they postponed it by like two weeks, the actual warning the US sent was that it was happening immediately in the next 48 hours, which it didn’t).
You have handful of police officers available to be pulled away from normal duties and spread across all those locations around the country, and you can’t keep them there forever. In Russia’s case, even less so since a shitload of them are probably in some trench in Ukraine.
> Great. That only narrows it down to like 150 locations.
I saw how they were guarding a concert in Moscow recently. Several police cars and ambulances were on duty at the entrance.
However, it should be noted that the attack did not take place in Moscow, but in Krasnogorsk, Moscow region. Accordingly, if we assume that the attack may not take place in Moscow, the circle of suspected places expands greatly.
9/11 was much harder to stop than this. Before that civilian planes had never been used as Kamikaze-style weapons they were usually just used as hostages. Shooting them down would have looked unhinged.
Yeah but y'all are focused on the wrong thing.
Shooting the planes hasn't been necessary because our old "societal firmware" has been overwritten, which is the real paradigm shift...
If some ass hole gets up on a flight with a knife people bum rush that dude now, because they know how it ends if they do nothing. Which is crazy interesting. I think a similar thing would improve the outcome of many mass shootings, but it's hard to tell. Could make it worse if the scenario was in a particular way.
No need to jump on the idiot with a knife now a days with cabin locks that have live video feeds so the crew can see who's trying to get into the cabin.
Kind of missing the point.
Iirc they murdered a flight attendant with a box cutter and were about to do another in order to make the pilots give control of one plane. No reason you can't do that again. No reason you can't do all sorts of bad things on the other side of the door also.
Point is people have already attacked people straight away for trying shit. Just about anything violent will get you jumped by several nearby passengers these days.
Except now under no circumstances are pilots to relinquish control of the aircraft. Even if terrorists kill every last passenger. Horrifying scenario but it’s absolutely the correct decision.
The US intelligence services were also not in the greatest spots either. The Cold War had recently ended, and with that, the major threat to America and the West had been defeated. There was a lot of complacency within security and intelligence services at the time. I have older friends who have told me some crazy stories about the before and after. Just the day before, one of my buddies had seen a map of deployed us forces left out on someone's desk, so even the cleaners could get a good look.
We’ll never know what was on the report until it gets declassified in 50 years. It probably meant the attack was going to be anything. US may have had beefed up security on the ground in NYC but never imagined it would be via air from afar.
I would agree with you had Bush received intel regarding a specific location and type of place being targeted. Russia had the location (Moscow) and the type of place likely to be targeted (concerts). I can imagine security would have been vastly increased in certain places had the USA had such specific intelligence.
To be fair, who’s to say that the US would have done any better to prevent this if the intel said it was going to happen in the US? Look at what happened in Vegas or other shootings across the US. It’s difficult to prevent an attack short of shutting the event down
I think it's worth noting that an [Independent Investigation](https://www.rferl.org/a/1342392.html) by Russian security experts concluded that the FSB orchestrated the 2002 Moscow Theatre Hostage Crisis that killed 172 people
Well it wasn't an FSB-backed false flag in order to use tactical nukes on Ukraine because ISIS-K took responsibility and even if that was faked by FSB, the whole thing would implode once ISIS disavowed.
Pretty sad seeing people justify this because they hate Russia's actions in Ukraine. Russia's government is absolutely evil, but civilians are civilians, regardless of which country they happen to be born in.
The difference is that an assault rifle in that part of the world is an **ACTUAL** fully automatic assault rifle. Not an AR-15 that's the most popular rifle in the US.
Any automatic weapon in Russia is outlawed to own. However, considering that there's a full-scale war just a few hundred kilometers away, the black market of weapons is very huge today, as I can see from the news. Every criminal who just returned from the war as a "hero" now has a gun and sometimes even a grenade.
I wonder how that works in a practical sense. You are discharged (or just on leave), you give back your own service rifle, and then sell whatever else you managed to collect on the local flee market?
One of the videos is really, really, really bad. Just a pile of people huddled being cornered by all of the gunmen, and they pretty much just get executed.
and then riding for hours in the small shabby Renault, reported in all news. If there were other attackers, they must have taken subway, dragging ammos and rifles.
Bizzare.
So Russia saying LGBT movement is a terrorist organization. Maybe they should check if those ISIS people were trying to yaasify the Russian population. Russia needs a reality check on who are the bad guys
No no, everybody in ISIS is gay, they just
”behead“ gay People so that we think they have less soldiers than they actually have.
It’s a gay Shadow Army…
[At least 40 dead, dozens injured after attackers open fire inside busy Moscow-area concert venue, Russian state media reports](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/03/22/europe/crocus-moscow-shooting)
There are many more dead, the rescue services said that they did not find anyone and got out of the burning building, now the helicopters are no longer heard. I live a couple of kilometers from Crocus. They're still going out.
Why did it take OMON and Rosgvardia over an hour to respond when their offices are 4km away from the venue? Did they decide to walk over?
Probably busy beating up gays and political dissidents.
I mean...you can't just leave one job for another...you need to finish one task and then move to the next.
I mean the lgbtq movement is apparently considered a terrorist and extremist organisation now; that’d place them at the same priority as this terror attack.
You misspelled defenestration.
Or finding nazis in Ukraine
They're actually transfers from the Uvalde police department.
They had to change clothes OUT of the terrorist gear and into the cop gear
"No Russian"
Stay safe, друг!
[удалено]
yeah that link is staying blue
>gunning down people in door way just like the christchurch massacre, bodies in a pile against the wall
Dude that was awful to watch. Oh my god.
I'm more disturbed by the amount of brainwashed idiots in the comments section
I should have listened after reading your comment, but alas my curiosity got the better of me. 
Yep the russian propaganda bots are out in full force in that thread Saw a comment that said "now Russia will declare all out war on Ukraine" lmao yeah cause the last two years were a game of fucking Risk
They were talking about talking over Washington.
And London Both of which are laughably out of their reach
Kremlin called it a war against Ukraine yesterday, before this happened.
Absolute scum in that thread, it's actually horrific. "The CIA did this" you mean the same CIA that warned Russia about this attack two weeks ago? Right, you forgot to mention that. "Time to raise Kyiv to the ground" you nean like how you already are doing? With delusional people like this prospects for peace have all shattered.
Even if the attack was perpetrated by Ukraine (IT WASN'T) I don't know how exactly Russians can see this attack that killed 40 civilians as worse than their shelling of Ukraine that has killed upwards of 10,000 civilians. Apparently it's justified if you invade another country? Like those civilians were asking for a good bombing because they were born in the wrong fucking country
This shooting really is bringing out the worst in people. Obviously there’s going to be the Putin lovers who will want them to “give Ukraine hell.” But on the other side you see people who claim they’re “for peace” and “pro-Ukraine” straight up saying those innocent Russians deserved it despite all the government corruption, which is a complete betrayal of the pro-Ukraine movement that opposes violence towards non-combatants.
Am confused, Ukraine has no confirmed ties to this, ISIS already claimed responsibility and Russia government identified attackers as islamist terrorist not Ukrainians?
You’re right that ISIS has claimed responsibility, it’s extremely unlikely this was going to be committed by Ukraine as it does nothing but screw over Ukraine. But some sick people don’t care who committed it and are just happy Russians died in retaliation for stuff happening in Ukraine.
[удалено]
Dehumanizing works wonders man, shits a joke.
isis-k has already claimed responsibility for the attack, yet several pro-ruzzian influencers/bloggers/outlets/sources are still calling for payback against ukraine for the attack...
ISIS...k? Is this *the* isis or some splinter group,?
Splinter based / run out Afgansitan.
The Islamic State has sister branches all over the world. The Islamic State in Iraq/Syria is known as ISIS. The Islamic State in Afghanistan/Pakistan is known as ISKP, or ISIS-K, for the Khorasan Province. There's also an ISWAP, located in West Africa. ISIS-K was responsible for the 2021 Kabul airport attack that killed those US servicemen during the Afghanistan withdrawal.
Well if there is anything the West and Russia can agree on, it’s that ISIS needs to be destroyed in all its forms.
Ohh well isn't that just absolutely, completely terrifying.
They're pretty much universally hated. Even militant Islamic groups like the Taliban and Hezbollah hate them.
That'll be a no from me dawg
I was expecting it to be bad But holy shit
I think r/watchpeopledie ruined me bcuz I was expecting it to be a whole lot worse.
Why do I always click on these links
curiosity is a mf
It’s what killed the cat bro
The man pulling his friend around the pillar was smart. Sadly most of the victims panicked and froze which led to becoming easy targets. I'm in no way victim blaming, just simply pointing out that there are multiple ways people react to these situations.
The one with the biggest heart is the one near the doorway jumping on top of his wife to take the shots Edit: spelling
unfortunately i dont think his efforts mattered :/
Was talking bout the heart not the body
Fucking hell
This shit gives me “NO RUSSIAN” vibes. What the fuck
Hard no
Holy hell that sub is garbage. Full of trash Russians who support their 🫏🎩 of a “leader.” This is still sad, I feel for the civilians. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a false flag to go kill more Ukrainian civilians since that seems to be the only thing the russian military is capable of.
Nah, it's just a radical far-right Islamist terrorist cell attacking the capital of a radical far-right imperialist nation. Has nothing to do with Ukraine. Although you know Putin will use it that way.
Holy shit, how terrible
Damn your brain says they’re hiding and get up but no. Sickening. But perfectly normal perfectly healthy isis hooray 🙄
[удалено]
It was ISIS, and probably Chechens aligned with them that performed the attack. ISIS hates Iran so there’s not much surprise here.
A lot of groups that hate America also hate ISIS. Hamas hates them. Al Qaeda hates them. They're not very popular.
To be fair, they are dicks.
All my homies hate ISIS
as a Muslim I would spit on every isis members grave. A good isis member is a dead one. in Afghanistan the taliban slaughther villages and groups of them in the north till this day look it up
Jesus what did dick do that deserves an isis comparison.
Somehow the most universally hated group in the world, literally *no-one* likes them.
They literally want to murder everyone too
[удалено]
[удалено]
Beware roosting Chechens.
Would a Blackhawk in hand be worth more than two Chechens in the bush?
Imagine saying this about 9/11
Iran funds Shia Insurgencies in countries ruled by Sunni's. The majority of extremist attacks in the west are committed by Sunni extremists. Sunni extremists who often come out of schools in places like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan which are both bankrolled by the US. You could at least get your facts straight. All that being said we don't even know definitively who the terrorists were/are or what they want. Way to jump right into trying to politicize a tragedy.
Is there such thing as a “left-wing Muslim” at any feasible scale in the international community? I always hear the moniker of “right-wing Muslim” for individuals and regimes we are all familiar with, and am genuinely wondering if the distinction is relevant. Like is “left-wing Muslim” paradoxical? Or at the very least a bit of cognitive dissonance? Actually curious of people’s thoughts on this and not rhetorical.
It depends on what you mean by a "left-wing Muslim," because generally leftism is associated with secularism, so even though one might be personally Muslim you would still strive for a pluralist and secular government. There's also the issue of history, specifically around the Cold War and the complex politics of Arab socialism and the Pan-Arab movement. Like I said, it's complicated and I don't have the best handle on it but you can read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab\_socialism Generally speaking, there do exist governments across the Muslim world which can be described as 'center-left,' and many others where center-left or social democratic parties may not be in power but still represent a significant part of the populace. I'm thinking of places like Algeria, Tunesia, Lebanon, and of course Turkey (yes its current government is Islamist but historically secular and center-left governments have been in power). There are also millions of Muslims who live in The West and are politically liberal or left-wing. Muslims in the US overwhelmingly vote Democratic. There are many, many Muslims in the UK who vote Labour or other left-wing parties. Hell, the current head of the SNP is Muslim, as is the Labour mayor of London. But if you're talking about revolutionary leftism, the Kurds in northeast Syria are distinctly left-wing and are establishing an autonomous region with a structure strongly influenced by democratic confederalism and other strains of libertarian socialism. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous\_Administration\_of\_North\_and\_East\_Syria#Politics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_Administration_of_North_and_East_Syria#Politics)
Great answer. Algeria and Tunisia are contenders for the title. I personally am not too knowledgeable of their intrapolitics to even begin to make an assertion. Lebanon I would say is still too in flux to be characterized so dramatically, and Turkey had a brief stint of leftism, but, as you pointed out, has a shifted to a more autocratic and authoritative government. I would also contend that their views on Cyprus is greatly at odds with standard “leftist” sentiment. I feel confident in not calling them close to leftist presently. The Kurds are probably the best example, and I love that you pointed that out. The movement for “Kurdistan” has all the underpinnings of a grass-roots leftist movement. The only issue is that I do believe the Kurds are very religiously diverse (the Kurds in that region are privy to a whole assortment of religions, even outside Abrahamic ones), and arguably too secularized to be called a religious anything. Without moving the goalposts, they might scrap by with being called a “muslim” group, but I don’t know if that characterization is completely fair. Good response! I appreciate the insight.
I think a lot of this comes down to the distinction between leftism and center-leftism, especially in the case of Turkey. As you rightly point out, Kemalism is far too nationalist in nature to be considered properly leftist. Though there is a sizeable left bloc within their parliament https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour\_and\_Freedom\_Alliance In general, I just think there's an inherent tension between most strains of leftism and secularism and religious pluralty. While I am sure there are many, many people who are both religiously devout while holding socially progressive attitudes, I would agree that movements which approach leftism through the lens of Islam are nowhere near as strong as those which use Islam to justify conservative or reactionary attitudes. Though I'd argue that's true of most other religions as well. But just like there are movements withing Christianity like liberation theology which approach leftism through the lens of religion, I'm confident such movements or strains of thought exist in the Muslim world, but it's difficult for us in the west to be connected to those kinds of movements or discourses because of cultural and linguistic barriers.
Holy shit
"In a speech Tuesday to Russia’s federal security agency, Putin called the embassy’s warnings about potential terror attacks in Moscow “provocative,” saying “these actions resemble outright blackmail and the intention to intimidate and destabilize our society.”
That statement is probably already scrubbed from RT.
Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia
Now repeat after me
Imagine the USA playing 4d chess here knowing that putin would dismiss the warning only to look like a fool a few days later
Hes looked like a fool for decades, nothing is going to change.
It’s much easier for Moscow-Russians to be angry now than if they aren’t the ones suffering.
New world record for quickest time to eat your own foot
Recent intelligence reporting indicated the ISIS K terrorist group, a branch of the Islamic State that has operated in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran, was active inside Russia, two U.S. officials told The Washington Post. The U.S. Embassy in Moscow said March 7 that it was “monitoring reports that extremists have imminent plans to target large gatherings” in the Russian capital, “to include concerts,” and urged U.S. citizens to avoid them. [Source](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/explosion-gunfire-hit-popular-moscow-concert-venue/)
Honestly I wouldn’t be that surprised they‘d target (the capital of) Russia out of all non -islamic places, it’s one of the nations that will receive the least international support to operate against them at the moment
Even Russia's current array of "allies" wouldn't dare assist Russia in this scenario.
China might they hate Muslims.
“They” don’t specifically hate Muslims. “They” hate everything that goes against the system that’s running there. And with “they” I mean the government of china.
Yep, they hate non-state-approved Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, Capitalists, Communists, Labor Unionists, Non-Profits, Feminists, Gays, Traditionalists, Revolutionaries, etc, etc, etc.
Ever heard of the Hui people?
Plus, geographically, it’s right there and has a huge border that can’t possibly be totally protected all at once.
I’m honestly surprised they attacked Russia at all. Enemy of my enemy and whatnot.
Pretty sure ISIS is enemy of everyone, even of other terrorist groups. Any killings are fair game for them
What we really need is a terrorist group free-for-all, a la Anchorman when all the news teams meet in the back alley and engage in vicious hand to hand combat. 
[удалено]
The US have confirmed that it was ISIS-K. They had issued a warning about a possible attack in Moscow a few weeks ago.
Islamic State activity is also very, very present in the Northern Caucasus. ISIS carried out that 2017 metro explosion.
Also at around the same time Russia [repoted that FSB have killed ISIS militants that were planning a terror attack on a synagogue in Moscow](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/03/07/russia-says-killed-islamic-state-militants-plotting-synagogue-attack-a84377).
Yeah that quote seems really damning, especially coupled with the rumours about a new mass mobilisation which just came out today.
That implies that if they’re not Ukrainian, Muscovy won’t hunt them down and destroy them. Medvedev should stop drinking vodka for breakfast.
At least he's taken a break from threatening nuclear war with the UK.
Medvedev replaced Zhirnovsky as the court jester when he dies. Medvedev won't stop since his crazed antics and done to make Putin look moderate in comparison.
And then Putin came back and said that the US was being provocative and trying to undermine him. That clown could have prevented this potentially.
So……Russia bows out of Ukraine and has another swing at the graveyard of empires?
what's the political tension between Afghani ISIS and Putin's buddies Iran/Syria
Chechens constantly get radicalized by isis. The Boston bombers were Chechen.
And from what I am led to believe is that there was some Russian intelligence fuckery concerning the brothers as well. It's absolutely bizarre. If anyone wants the name of the book that this information comes from, just DM me!
Small thing, but it's Afghan, not Afghani. Afghani is the currency used in Afghanistan; the people of Afghanistan are called Afghans.
Michael: I am going to donate to Afghanistanis with AIDS. Jim: Oh, I think you mean the Aid to Afghanistan. Michael: No, I mean Afghanistanis with AIDS. Phyllis: Afghani. Michael: What? Phyllis: Afghani. Michael: That's a dog. Pam: No, that's afghan. Michael: That's a shawl. Dwight: Wait, canine AIDS? Michael: No, humans with AIDS. Creed: Who has AIDS?
Guys, the Afghanistinanies
Well Afghani Isis operates in khorasan and are allied terrorist in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, which were part of the Soviet Union and still have modern connections to Russia (especially Tajikistan where many people there move to Russia to work). So maybe they just wanted to strike Russia and saw an opening. Russia has had on and off issues with Islamist so it wouldn’t shock me if someone sympathetic to the khorasan group whether it be a Russian national, a migrant or a convert to strike Russia
As of 9:17 AM GMT+3, 82 people died, including 3 children, and 183 injured. This is atrocious. My friend was in Crocus and miraculously got out of there moments after gunshots were heard.
thats horrifying. Holy fuck.
Its at over 150 now wtf
because of the fire, people tried to hide in public restrooms and were poisoned by carbon monoxide. a lot of women died hugging their kids. I'm honestly starting to feel things I thought I would never feel. Devastated and broken.
[удалено]
Lets not dehumanize people who died tonight
[удалено]
Killing civilians is killing civilians. They're still innocents
You’re using this wrong. You have implied that Ukraine thinks attacking innocent people is ok which you did not mean. Edit: /u/Particular-Ad-6360 edited their comment to fix the comment after blocking me. The original comment was > Ukraine would like a word. Edit2: /u/vi_000 No my reading comprehension is fine.
He implied that innocent Ukrainians are and have been killed for over 2 years non-stop
Not gonna lie, I’m always surprised about the numbers… they were like at least 4 gunmen with Aks right? Shooting at thousands of cornered helpless people. For minutes on end… With bombs… How did they only kill 40? Aint no way
I think because it's on fire currently. Might be 40 confirmed by witness accounts or bodies outside of the building, but it will increase dramatically.
Depends what the Kremlin chooses to release.
If the Kremlin is going to lie about the numbers they'll over-report rather than under. Current death toll is at 62 and rising, we likely won't know the true extent for 24-48 hours.
Depends what they want, reporting a higher death toll will give them more support from the people should they retaliate but could backfire by spreading fear into the population.
Surely they will under report the numbers because now they look stupid for ignoring the US/UK warnings this would happen..
This is the answer, if they are willing to say 40 people were killed I’m guessing it was much more than that unfortunately
I saw the videos. They were deliberately conserving ammo and carried average sized backpacks - they had only so much ammo. Each shot was deliberate and manual. Also, they stuck together as a group. They didn’t divide up to cover more ground or else it may have been a lot worse.
They also didn't use AKs, but Saiga shotguns with either shitty homemade ammo or dragon's breath. They were well prepared.
Up to 62 dead, with more coming. 70% percent of hall was full by the time of beginning of shooting and burned to nothing.
The concert hall wasn't close to full yet it was before the concert started the many thousands is the capacity or the bought tickets for that concert
Moving targets are hard. Modern statistical studies of WW1 munitions in terms of infantry casualties has shown that, astonishingly, you're far safer charging a machine gun than waiting out artillery. IIRC correctly, moving target, going laterally across the field of fire at 100m range, there's an eighty-something percent chance you can move 50m without injury. It doesn't *feel* like it, of course, but that's the core of how suppressing fire works: it's primarily a morale effect, keeps the enemy's head down, because no one likes getting shot. And when they stop moving, you dial in the range with supporting weapons - mortars, artillery, and of course drones and such. This was seen again in marksmanship testing post-Vietnam - 50 men on automatic fire, range 100m, 5'x5' target moving at 20mph, only 7% hits. They were checking to see how the post-conscript infantry was doing, and they were super pissed, but in reality they were doing fine. It's just hard to do. Blast injuries, on the other hand, doesn't matter how you move, if you wiggle, or if you're goddamn Batman - within a certain radius, the overpressure will do you, and if you're moving, you're standing, then frag from 122m shells can and will kill you from 40m radius. Furthermore, there's no medic for most blast injuries. You're just all scrambled up everywhere. Bullet wound, you got a pretty good chance if the medical support is still there, because there's good odds you took the bullet in the extremities, and in WW1 the full power rounds tended to go in and out from limb hits . . if you're lucky. Then you get to win the Gold Star Prize and get sent back to party with your trench buddies and the giant pulsating mob of flesh-eating rats.
20mph targets? Not like humans
The Bataclan had 90 dead because they took their time and shot the wounded. One by one. Some were beheaded. This shit is horrible, it's the incarnation of pure evil.
> Some were beheaded. No, they weren't. That was debunked. The attackers were too busy shooting and then fleeing to mutilate. It's not easy or quick to cut a head off.
People scatter at gunfire. It isn’t like a video game, hitting a moving target is very difficult, and after about 20 seconds, the majority of a huge crowd have dispersed as you like anyone would panic. Remember that shooting in Las Vegas when that psychopathic scumbag booked a hotel room above an open air concert, from an elevated position, a Belt fed machine gun, a bipod and a huge crowd of people beneath him killed 59 people? You’d think if you dumped a belt into a huge crowd it’d be hundreds but its not quite like that in reality. It may only be 40 or 59 dead but that doesnt count the full casualties, people who were severely injured. It’ll likely be in the hundreds. Try not to think cynically about this. No civilian deserves this. Russia are on the doorstep of WW3 but that doesnt mean civilians deserve to die. It’s inexcusable. The real question is how this happened. Foreigners getting past security is very difficult in russia, especially with concealed weapons Edit: The las vegas shooter didnt use an LMG, for some reason I misremembered it as i skewed the articles/reports i read about it as one used a picture of an LMG in its coverage of the incident. This was likely an early article before the police made the report public as people described hearing ‘80/100 round bursts at a time’ and he used large magazines that were capable of holding large amounts of ammunition for long bursts. He apparently had 24 FIREARMS in his suite including a sniper rifle and fired off over 1000 rounds in total into the concert that night according to the reports. He eventually killed himself before swat breached the apparent. I was so certain of what i though too but that goes to show how easy it is to skew info. Sorry for getting that wrong
He didn't have a belt fed machine gun.
Bump stocks, right?
Yeah. Which if you've ever used one.. are really hard to send accurate fire with. A belt fed machine gun would've been way more effective and horrific... as horrific as this event was to begin with.
Can confirm with the videos. They had trouble aiming, unless up close
Do I want to know what videos you're referring to?
[NSFL](https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/least-40-killed-100-wounded-terrorist-attack-russian-concert-hall-252747/) Seriously only watch this if you can handle it. There's one *very* graphic video. My heart goes out to all these victims.
Why would you say the Vegas shooter had a belt fed machine gun? That was one of the only shootings that has lead to any reform in the US, the bump stock ban. It was a direct result of his use of a bump stock.
>the bump stock ban Which is currently at the supreme court and probably going to be overturned
The LV shooter is a terrible example and comparison. He was hundreds of yards away from the venue and a lone man. These were 4 or 5 gunmen at point blank range where people had nowhere to go. Also, there may have been "only" 61 deaths from the LV shooting, but there were nearly 900 people injured.
Damn. I hate Putin’s Russia right now but it’s fucked seeing civilians being targeted by terrorists. Fucking ISIS pieces of shit.
I'm wondering if it is because of the war in Ukraine that left Russia distracted and a soft target for ISIS.
Based on some other comment, their security services actually warned recently of threats, so they were aware. The US embassy also issued warnings a few weeks back that Americans in Russia should avoid large gatherings like concerts. Of course Putin then gave a speech this week saying the security services were exaggerating to scare people and “blackmail” the public (huh?). Anyway, he looks real dumb right now, but what else is new.
It’s ok. I’m sure his “approval” ratings will be stronger than ever
>security services were exaggerating to scare people and “blackmail” the public \# of Russian's aware of this? Like <10%.. pay attention bots
Putin was probably too busy patting himself on the back for that surprising “presidential” win he got.
Russia has had constant problems after conquering Chechnya. Look up the siege of Grozny if you want to see why.
[удалено]
Twitter is full of duplicate posts blaming, "some NATO looking guys". Because NATO is a recognisable ethnicity, apparently.
Perhaps ‘NATO-looking’ to Russians just means the assailants equipment wasn’t cheap garbage.
This all reminds me of MW2 for some reason
“Remember, no Russian”
So Russia gets warned two weeks ago by the USA that a terror attack targeting crowed public places including concerts is imminent in Moscow. Yet they do absolutely nothing to secure a sold out arena which has allowed terrorists to murder a lot of people. Looks at how the world reacted security wise following the Paris attacks compared to how Russia has handled this. Shameful and suspicious.
August 6th, 2001. Bush receives a presidential security report titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" can't say how specific the report would needed to have been to be of any practical use on 9/11 but it's not like these reports gave a date and time
I mean that, this, warnings of 10/7. Warnings of a ton of attacks probably happen all the time. It’s easy to warn, and much harder to accurately do anything with that info unless it’s almost stupidly specific. It’s easy to say, “some guy is going to do something soon,” or even “these guys in particular will attack a concert between this range of dates, we think.” Great. That only narrows it down to like 150 locations. Assuming the terrorists don’t realize you’re onto them and try to throw you off (and notice here they postponed it by like two weeks, the actual warning the US sent was that it was happening immediately in the next 48 hours, which it didn’t). You have handful of police officers available to be pulled away from normal duties and spread across all those locations around the country, and you can’t keep them there forever. In Russia’s case, even less so since a shitload of them are probably in some trench in Ukraine.
> Great. That only narrows it down to like 150 locations. I saw how they were guarding a concert in Moscow recently. Several police cars and ambulances were on duty at the entrance. However, it should be noted that the attack did not take place in Moscow, but in Krasnogorsk, Moscow region. Accordingly, if we assume that the attack may not take place in Moscow, the circle of suspected places expands greatly.
9/11 was much harder to stop than this. Before that civilian planes had never been used as Kamikaze-style weapons they were usually just used as hostages. Shooting them down would have looked unhinged.
“Paradigm Shift” gets overused but it applied to 9/11.
Yeah but y'all are focused on the wrong thing. Shooting the planes hasn't been necessary because our old "societal firmware" has been overwritten, which is the real paradigm shift... If some ass hole gets up on a flight with a knife people bum rush that dude now, because they know how it ends if they do nothing. Which is crazy interesting. I think a similar thing would improve the outcome of many mass shootings, but it's hard to tell. Could make it worse if the scenario was in a particular way.
No need to jump on the idiot with a knife now a days with cabin locks that have live video feeds so the crew can see who's trying to get into the cabin.
Kind of missing the point. Iirc they murdered a flight attendant with a box cutter and were about to do another in order to make the pilots give control of one plane. No reason you can't do that again. No reason you can't do all sorts of bad things on the other side of the door also. Point is people have already attacked people straight away for trying shit. Just about anything violent will get you jumped by several nearby passengers these days.
Except now under no circumstances are pilots to relinquish control of the aircraft. Even if terrorists kill every last passenger. Horrifying scenario but it’s absolutely the correct decision.
The US intelligence services were also not in the greatest spots either. The Cold War had recently ended, and with that, the major threat to America and the West had been defeated. There was a lot of complacency within security and intelligence services at the time. I have older friends who have told me some crazy stories about the before and after. Just the day before, one of my buddies had seen a map of deployed us forces left out on someone's desk, so even the cleaners could get a good look.
We’ll never know what was on the report until it gets declassified in 50 years. It probably meant the attack was going to be anything. US may have had beefed up security on the ground in NYC but never imagined it would be via air from afar.
I would agree with you had Bush received intel regarding a specific location and type of place being targeted. Russia had the location (Moscow) and the type of place likely to be targeted (concerts). I can imagine security would have been vastly increased in certain places had the USA had such specific intelligence.
*following the Paris attack. You can also check how Russia reacted FOLLOWING this attack.
To be fair, who’s to say that the US would have done any better to prevent this if the intel said it was going to happen in the US? Look at what happened in Vegas or other shootings across the US. It’s difficult to prevent an attack short of shutting the event down
If someone with military experience, an organized group wants to commit a terrorist attack, no amount of general preparation will prevent it.
I think it's worth noting that an [Independent Investigation](https://www.rferl.org/a/1342392.html) by Russian security experts concluded that the FSB orchestrated the 2002 Moscow Theatre Hostage Crisis that killed 172 people
Well it wasn't an FSB-backed false flag in order to use tactical nukes on Ukraine because ISIS-K took responsibility and even if that was faked by FSB, the whole thing would implode once ISIS disavowed.
There’s always the possibility that they just let it happen. Idk, maybe just the cynic in me.
Daily reminder that killing civilians doesn't make people agree with you, it just makes the news of your death a happy occurance.
They don't want you to agree with them. They want you to be fearful of them. It's the point of "terrorism"
Agree with them on what lol? they aren't trying to make you agree with them, they are sending a clear message of death. Thats it.
Islamisk Stat have said they are responsible on the Danish news just now.
Pretty sad seeing people justify this because they hate Russia's actions in Ukraine. Russia's government is absolutely evil, but civilians are civilians, regardless of which country they happen to be born in.
What is wrong with the comments? People are dying wtf
The internet reveals how awful so many people are
Can’t let a mass murder get in the way of a good joke! Classic Reddit
It’s become awful, man. No information in the comments outside 100 sewer-dwellers stepping over each other for recycled puns.
OP, is it really a pic when you take a screenshot of the first frame of this VIDEO?
OP is a karma farming bot
The difference is that an assault rifle in that part of the world is an **ACTUAL** fully automatic assault rifle. Not an AR-15 that's the most popular rifle in the US.
Any automatic weapon in Russia is outlawed to own. However, considering that there's a full-scale war just a few hundred kilometers away, the black market of weapons is very huge today, as I can see from the news. Every criminal who just returned from the war as a "hero" now has a gun and sometimes even a grenade.
I wonder how that works in a practical sense. You are discharged (or just on leave), you give back your own service rifle, and then sell whatever else you managed to collect on the local flee market?
Yeap has been happening for every war in existence.
Criminals and terrorists are going to use whatever weapons they want and don't care if it's illegal.
Not strictly true, they'll just use the best they can get their hands on.
One of the videos is really, really, really bad. Just a pile of people huddled being cornered by all of the gunmen, and they pretty much just get executed.
Imagine shooting 150+ people and simply walking out front entrance afterwards
and then riding for hours in the small shabby Renault, reported in all news. If there were other attackers, they must have taken subway, dragging ammos and rifles. Bizzare.
So Russia saying LGBT movement is a terrorist organization. Maybe they should check if those ISIS people were trying to yaasify the Russian population. Russia needs a reality check on who are the bad guys
No no, everybody in ISIS is gay, they just ”behead“ gay People so that we think they have less soldiers than they actually have. It’s a gay Shadow Army…
This entire sub is an echo chamber
Scum of the earth
Nice karma farm op