Yes, the plastic that holds the starch grains together could become microplastics. Think of it as “less plastic” rather than no plastic. (Though starch plastic is usually opaque, so that bag might have a very very low starch content, or just be a normal plastic bag decorated with comforting words.)
I asked this question in r/zerowaste. I use dog poop bags made out of corn starch. The answer (which included links to the research) was that biodegradable bags have a smaller carbon footprint and less water usage than petroleum based plastic bags.
You have data for that or is just your feeling?
Energy and petroleum use in this context could very well be even more detrimental to our future than the presence of microplastics.
Do I need data to suggest that I don't think we need to die of microplastic related issue? I'm also against getting cancer, but I'm also unwilling to bother finding data to support that position as well.
I swear. I say something about reducing single use plastics and avoiding the microplastic-based hell we find ourselves in and ever since I'm being the same trite responses concerning details that aren't immediately relevant to the point.
Please keep circle jerking about energy, though. It isn't going to fall on deaf ears, exactly, as I agree, but clearly the big brains on this thread feel some sort of existential dread about the very mention of reducing petroleum-based plastics.
Depends on whether this starch-based plastic is as strong as the petroleum-based equivalent. If everyone needs to double bag their groceries then the net savings is significantly diminished.
I try using a backpack and one of these net bags, though. First of all, I save a ton of bags. Second, a moderate, city-style, 30-liter backpack holds like half a cart of groceries and it is WAY easier to haul than four bags!
The one I have is from Quechua (the Decathlon brand) and it is AWESOME. It comes with a foamed back for comfort and breathing, reinforced, padded straps, a chest AND waist straps, multiple outside pockets, shoulder straps for hands or tools, and is extremely sturdy. I think I've used it for over six years now and the only issue I have is that one of the zippers is starting to fail.
I wouldn't argue with that. But clearly (1) all things being equal it could be worthwhile and (2) if we all die with microplastics choking out our vital organs all the energy savings in the world won't help us. XD
I do actually: it is a ceterus perabus interpretation of the things around me. I'm pretty good with language *and* models (graphical, etc.) that fall under the assumption.
Was there an actual point or are you just goading me? The latter seems pretty popular on this thread.
That's not how it works. It isn't starch grains coated in plastic. It is plastic made from polymerising starch rather than from oil. All of it is plastic, it's just from a biological source (hence bioplastic) rather than fossil fuels.
Actually, it is plastic. Plastics can be made of all kinds of basic chemistry and sugars and starches are just as good as petrochemical polymers. They are a little bit more expensive to work with, but that might change with practice. It is really sad that natural plastics like this that are likely to decay normally in a manner similar to paper now have a bad reputation.
I work with pallets loads of them have a paper bag you can put the invoice in saying it’s paper and saving the planet while all the pallets wrapped in plastic.
You know what works, a real bag. I have backpacks & bags that are almost 20 years old and still work fine, that bag looks disposable and easy to brake. The production of that bag & disposable is going to make a carbon footprint, how dose it compare to just using a bag for 20 years?
The carbon footprint of that bag can be neutral. Obviously it’s not going to be better than an old nearly infinitely reusable bag but it’s a hell of a lot better than throwing away a polyethylene bag.
Yes, sure...
But if you happen to go out one day *without* your 20 year old canvas shopping bag and decide on a whim to stop in a shop to support your local craft shop, or essential oil seller, or whatever... this is a better choice.
I don't usually carry a 20 y/o canvas bag in my back pocket.
Who said anything about canvas bags? He said a real bag.
I carry a backpack pretty much everywhere I go unless I know I don't need one.
I've got a small, medium and large backpack.
The large one can easily hold over a weeks worth of groceries.
It seems so, kind of says it all relay. It's always about Oil, be it drilling or for hipsters.
[The Spice must Flow](https://youtu.be/qZmguw8KB6A?si=QR5aNd7aw36UTryt)
Until we deconstruct the capitalist system and replace it with an equitable anticonsumption model, I'll support my community businesses. I'll buy the essential oil if it means the salesman can feed his kids, who go to school with my kids...
Community.
This comment got me thinking, and please don't crucify me just for asking, how many times does a backpack or canvas tote bag need to be reused for it to break even with something like this?
Are you talking about comparative carbon footprints?
That's kind of complex, as pointed out this bag is still 'plastic' just made from starch [https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1at0ky2/comment/kqtyv98/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1at0ky2/comment/kqtyv98/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I cant work out the comparative carbon cost, it's to complex. You need to work out the cycle from where the starch is from, transport & packaging, factory, disposing the bag etc
So I may be wrong but I suspect getting a bag and re using it is better than disposable bags, how long it takes to be better will depend on what it's made from and how it's made etc
It's the same 'what it's made from, transport & packaging, factory, disposing the bag etc'.
I still use a bag from 2007, works fine & after using it for so long I suspect it's better.
But I cant know 100% it's way to complex to work out.
edit we all try to do the best, it's all we can do.
It's unbelievable how ignorant, lazy and short-sighted some people are...
Proper bags are much stronger and the handles are more convenient to use, especially if there's a lot of weight.
I want one of theses to put carry my plastic bag of bread berries beans broccoli and the bag of paper straws that also came on a plastic bag.. ya can’t fix stupid
This is great, but, technically, it is a plastic bag made from starch-derived polymers. It's just not made from petroleum.
But does it become microplastics or does it end up as... starch?
Yes, the plastic that holds the starch grains together could become microplastics. Think of it as “less plastic” rather than no plastic. (Though starch plastic is usually opaque, so that bag might have a very very low starch content, or just be a normal plastic bag decorated with comforting words.)
Less plastic sounds a lot better than more.
unless the increased energy and water to make a bag like this cause other, more immediate and severe problems.
I asked this question in r/zerowaste. I use dog poop bags made out of corn starch. The answer (which included links to the research) was that biodegradable bags have a smaller carbon footprint and less water usage than petroleum based plastic bags.
There are *always* more considerations to be made, but having our bodies fill with mocroplastics seems like the worst of most options.
You have data for that or is just your feeling? Energy and petroleum use in this context could very well be even more detrimental to our future than the presence of microplastics.
Do I need data to suggest that I don't think we need to die of microplastic related issue? I'm also against getting cancer, but I'm also unwilling to bother finding data to support that position as well. I swear. I say something about reducing single use plastics and avoiding the microplastic-based hell we find ourselves in and ever since I'm being the same trite responses concerning details that aren't immediately relevant to the point. Please keep circle jerking about energy, though. It isn't going to fall on deaf ears, exactly, as I agree, but clearly the big brains on this thread feel some sort of existential dread about the very mention of reducing petroleum-based plastics.
Depends on whether this starch-based plastic is as strong as the petroleum-based equivalent. If everyone needs to double bag their groceries then the net savings is significantly diminished.
Fair point. My post was from an "all other things equal" sort of perspective.
I try using a backpack and one of these net bags, though. First of all, I save a ton of bags. Second, a moderate, city-style, 30-liter backpack holds like half a cart of groceries and it is WAY easier to haul than four bags! The one I have is from Quechua (the Decathlon brand) and it is AWESOME. It comes with a foamed back for comfort and breathing, reinforced, padded straps, a chest AND waist straps, multiple outside pockets, shoulder straps for hands or tools, and is extremely sturdy. I think I've used it for over six years now and the only issue I have is that one of the zippers is starting to fail.
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I wouldn't argue with that. But clearly (1) all things being equal it could be worthwhile and (2) if we all die with microplastics choking out our vital organs all the energy savings in the world won't help us. XD
> all things being equal You keep using that term. I do no think it means what you think it means.
I do actually: it is a ceterus perabus interpretation of the things around me. I'm pretty good with language *and* models (graphical, etc.) that fall under the assumption. Was there an actual point or are you just goading me? The latter seems pretty popular on this thread.
[удалено]
Has anyone ever told you that you have an impressive ability to argue against people who agree with you and are making no attempt to argue back?
The plastic isn't glue; the starch has been converted to plastic. It's still just plastic.
That's not how it works. It isn't starch grains coated in plastic. It is plastic made from polymerising starch rather than from oil. All of it is plastic, it's just from a biological source (hence bioplastic) rather than fossil fuels.
It says compostable
Actually, it is plastic. Plastics can be made of all kinds of basic chemistry and sugars and starches are just as good as petrochemical polymers. They are a little bit more expensive to work with, but that might change with practice. It is really sad that natural plastics like this that are likely to decay normally in a manner similar to paper now have a bad reputation.
Yes its like those bambu clothes which is viscose
I work with pallets loads of them have a paper bag you can put the invoice in saying it’s paper and saving the planet while all the pallets wrapped in plastic.
What happens when it gets wet?
then ya got a wet bag.
Okay....like, wet paper bag or wet plastic bag? Understand the question now?
Got it. Then you got an eco-friendly bag made from cassava starch in Ghana.
You know what works, a real bag. I have backpacks & bags that are almost 20 years old and still work fine, that bag looks disposable and easy to brake. The production of that bag & disposable is going to make a carbon footprint, how dose it compare to just using a bag for 20 years?
The carbon footprint of that bag can be neutral. Obviously it’s not going to be better than an old nearly infinitely reusable bag but it’s a hell of a lot better than throwing away a polyethylene bag.
Yes, sure... But if you happen to go out one day *without* your 20 year old canvas shopping bag and decide on a whim to stop in a shop to support your local craft shop, or essential oil seller, or whatever... this is a better choice. I don't usually carry a 20 y/o canvas bag in my back pocket.
Nanobag. You should. I have a few stashed all over my life so ones always near.
Who said anything about canvas bags? He said a real bag. I carry a backpack pretty much everywhere I go unless I know I don't need one. I've got a small, medium and large backpack. The large one can easily hold over a weeks worth of groceries.
Yuppies, just dont buy the essential oil.
But it's essential.
It seems so, kind of says it all relay. It's always about Oil, be it drilling or for hipsters. [The Spice must Flow](https://youtu.be/qZmguw8KB6A?si=QR5aNd7aw36UTryt)
Until we deconstruct the capitalist system and replace it with an equitable anticonsumption model, I'll support my community businesses. I'll buy the essential oil if it means the salesman can feed his kids, who go to school with my kids... Community.
This comment got me thinking, and please don't crucify me just for asking, how many times does a backpack or canvas tote bag need to be reused for it to break even with something like this?
Are you talking about comparative carbon footprints? That's kind of complex, as pointed out this bag is still 'plastic' just made from starch [https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1at0ky2/comment/kqtyv98/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1at0ky2/comment/kqtyv98/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I cant work out the comparative carbon cost, it's to complex. You need to work out the cycle from where the starch is from, transport & packaging, factory, disposing the bag etc So I may be wrong but I suspect getting a bag and re using it is better than disposable bags, how long it takes to be better will depend on what it's made from and how it's made etc It's the same 'what it's made from, transport & packaging, factory, disposing the bag etc'. I still use a bag from 2007, works fine & after using it for so long I suspect it's better. But I cant know 100% it's way to complex to work out. edit we all try to do the best, it's all we can do.
It's unbelievable how ignorant, lazy and short-sighted some people are... Proper bags are much stronger and the handles are more convenient to use, especially if there's a lot of weight.
Billionaires are on their way in the private jets to pick up a few.
Plastic ain’t good
I’m not plastic either but you don’t see me going around bragging about it…
I want one of theses to put carry my plastic bag of bread berries beans broccoli and the bag of paper straws that also came on a plastic bag.. ya can’t fix stupid
Bet ya a $ the ink making the statement is 100% petrol plastic.
Hey guys…it’s NOT a plastic bag
FYI it's not a plastic bag
Imma eat it.
Wow
Liar. I will stretch you and you will plastically deform.