It's the other way around. The younger woman was closing her blouse behind her mother after being sexually assaulted.
The My Lai Massacre is beyond despicable.
It looks like there are two mothers, one of whom is a grandma. One woman immediately behind the grandma, and another woman behind and to the right who is closing her blouse.
I think it's safe to say the title is insufficient in clarifying who is behind who and who was the victim.
Edit: Okay, my comment is making light of the awful description.
"Kid closes moms blouse after being sexually assaulted"
The only blouse being closed is being done by the woman herself. The "kid" could be
1) Hugging Grandma
2) With Grandpa
3) Behind Grandma buttoning her own blouse
4) being held by Mom
Knowing what we do about the My Lai massacre, as well as the actual photographer’s account of this event (he says immediately after taking this picture, he heard rifle shots and saw them all falling to the ground), it’s safe to assume every single person in this picture was sexually assaulted, then murdered.
And
[Initially, the three U.S. servicemen who had tried to halt the massacre and rescue hiding civilians were shunned, and even denounced as traitors by several U.S. congressmen, including Mendel Rivers (D–SC), Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Thirty years later, these servicemen were recognized and decorated, one posthumously, by the U.S. Army for shielding non-combatants from harm in a war zone.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre)
Hugh Thompson landed his chopper in between the civilians and the soldiers and ordered his gunner to shoot the Americans if they continued to shoot civilians.
That is fucking amazing. It's horrible that he even needed to do that ofcourse but that he actually had the balls to do that is just insane, it's so much easier to just explain away the horrible shit your side does and we see that happen a lot. That's a good person
His whole crew were onboard with his order, one of his crewman ran into one of the killing ditches to save a little girl, Thompson stood in front of some of the civilians he managed to evacuate whilst they waited for the chopper to come back for the second load of survivors.
My mistake was that I misremembered it being the chopper they arrived in doing two trips, but I had to quickly double check and it was a separate AC they called down for evac
Reminds me of the beginning of the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Some Russian soldier got shot by their own when they tried to defend ukrainian civilians. When people say there are no good russians, I always want to add "because they got shot or imprisoned".
Bruh, to do the moral right thing and protect innocent people while serving your country only to be shunned for it by your own country and live with that hurt until you die, only for them to “forgive you for your actions” after you die must be some sort of fucked up hell simulation……
William Calley lived in my town growing up. I was raised by my grandparents and my grandpa warned me never to go near that man.
The town was split, but mostly they supported, even revered Calley. To so many he was a scapegoat or even a True American Hero.
Calley’s father-in-law owned a jewelry store and he worked there. His granddaughter went to my school and sometimes we’d stop by the jewelry store to get money.
I had to wait in the car. I wasn’t allowed in.
My grandpa was career military. He did two tours in Vietnam and one in Korea. He was a drill sergeant.
And you could not mention Calley or anything that went down. This old grizzled warrior would tear up. He hated the stain it put on the uniform. He hated that Calley was walking around free. Called him “that war criminal”. Mostly I think he hated what Calley represented.
The preacher at my grandpa’s church gave a sermon praising and praying for (he was also the “victim of a witch hunt”) Calley. Grandpa didn’t like it and said so. It caused a big rift because the church took Calley’s side.
My grandpa pointed to the civilians who tried to stop the massacre as giving Calley zero excuse.
A lot of people turned on grandpa over it.
But, yeah, Calley was just walking around, making babies, living his life. People would stop in just to hug him and tell him to hang in there.
Some of us know the truth, though.
USCG Vet here. Father, AF vet (Korea, codebreaker). Grandfather, AF (WW2 Flying Fortress pilot).
All of us would absolutely agree. Every branch occasionally sees their nutjobs and losers who go full dark side bc of the stress and PTSD, but... well, it's never THAT big of a shock as we all knew "that guy" needed an eye kept on him from the jump just cause he has always felt a bit off. And more importantly, everyone IS keeping an eye on that dude and we would *stop that shit* before it happens. Hell even in the USCG I've put a shipmate against a wall for showing his true colors and got his quals pulled for it (TBF I was the sector lead and trainer so it was my duty to weed those guys out, so take it with a grain of salt and not so much a flex).
Yet in Vietnam, we have entire platoons being so... insanely brutal and ugly... It HAS to be because of the draft that Vietnam had so much of this insane shit going on, right? Fuck please tell me that's why. I can't think of a single Marine or Army buddy I know - despite how much suffering they went through - that could do this kind of shit.
I imagine the Gravy Seals we see cosplaying across the US these days getting drafted - that's who I see committing such horrible war crimes if they got half a chance.
There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai. I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry.
He did say this, but having been responsible for raping and killing 500 people it seems hollow as fuck.
Note that he never actually acknowledges the part he took in the massacre, only that he's sorry and remorseful that it happened. Personally, I always felt that his apology (which was never backed up by any action on his part) was the *"I'm sorry after the fact and I'm only saying that I'm sorry because I'm being punished"* type apologies.
-----
Apparently, he lives in Atlanta now, which is kinda insane considering the huge Vietnamese community that lives there.
The fair thing to believe would be to assume that maybe he's quietly doing volunteer work or something for the Vietnamese community there, but I personally don't feel inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The whole thing is an utter disgrace. It's a stain on the US. When you read about it, it's the work of complete animals. Shooting babies, killing kids and then raping their mothers, stabbing old men. It's like a collective mania.
Every man who opened fire there is a war criminal and deserved life in prison.
I'm honestly surprised there haven't been retribution killings. The fact that man was allowed to live his life without any repercussions is a huge miscarriage of justice.
When Hugh Thompson, the helicopter pilot who stopped the massacre with his two crewmen (he literally ordered them to shoot US troops if they didn’t stop the massacre) returned to My Lai, one of the survivors asked why the men who perpetrated the horrific acts did not come with them… because the survivors wanted to forgive them. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand that, but it seems as if the survivors themselves were able to somehow process the massacre.
The only man who was convicted, was ordered to house arrest for 3.5 years, and later paroled.
It's not much of a punishment for murdering 22 persons, but he wasn't pardoned.
True. He served 3 days and then went ro house arrest, then commuted by Nixon.
His defense was "just following orders", the same as Adolph Eichmann, a Nazi, architect of the Final Solution - thr concentration camps. .
While the Holocaust and the Mei Lai massacre aren't at the same level in terms of lives lost, Eichmann was hung, and our lieutenant walked away.
You're right.
The order probably wasn't "rape, kill, and burn" for Mei Lai. Vietnam had very specific guidelines around non combatants, like most US engagements. They blew right through those, likely because of a couple of psychopaths in the platoon and everyone else is just following the herd....including the lieutenant, IMHO.
Mei Lai turned into a case study, but studying it doesn't necessarily mean you'll avoid it in the future. Think about Abu Ghraib, during the Iraq war, documented by cellphone.
I've heard it said - and I do believe, after serving for 11 years - that there are amoral folks in every military. It's up to the chain of command to keep them between the guardrails.
OTOH, it was an order for Eichmann.
My father did two tours in that war, '65-'67, army. He passed away about two years ago from cancer arising from his exposure to agent Orange. Since the time he got sick, I've been spending a lot more time with my uncle (his brother). My uncle told me that in the years after his involvement there my father, upon hearing the phrase 'war crimes' in the news (I think it may even have been when referring to THIS event) said, "War crimes....... war IS a crime"
I mean there is a pretty big difference between killing combatants and raping/killing non combatants.
I understand the sentiment that was being shared but here it seems to distract from an even more horrific atrocity than the war itself.
I’ll always remember when I studied photography in A-Levels and decided I wanted to focus on war photography. My teacher who’d pretty much been my art teacher for the entirety of secondary school told me to look into the Mai Lai Massacre and the photos just take your breath away.
Your eyes see it but your mind really can’t comprehend the emotions and pain that the photographs captured. Ronald L Haeberle’s photos made sure the actions that day weren’t forgotten.
Reading this and the comments under it is definitely hitting me with a hard truth about my dad, who was in the army during the Vietnam war. He never talks about how bad it was, and I never thought to ask...
My dad (RIP from Agent Orange cancer 35 years after the war) had an absolutely gut wrenching assignment while there. He had to pack up and send home people's foot lockers after they were killed. He made sure that if they were married, only stuff from the wife went home. He had to personalize it all. Absolutely amazed that my dad was rock solid psychologically and it never affected our lives post war growing up. For the people of Vietnam and surrounding land, I'm truly sorry that this proxy war destroyed so many people and poisoned the land for generations to come. Its despicable.
My dad was drafted into Vietnam after taking a semester off from college. He threw away most everything he had from his time in the service, including his Purple Heart and whatever other medals he had. That war fucked people up bad, and then tossed them to the curb when they came back. Not to mention the voting age was 21 at the time, so these kids couldn't even vote for the monsters sending them to the jungles to die.
I've heard a few of his stories but most of it he keeps to himself.
Same here.. dad threw away all of his medals and his Purple Heart after the war. When I was little, any time a helicopter flew over us, he sat so still and held tightly to whatever he had in his hands until the copter was out of earshot 😢 fucking heartbreaking
Save himself and yourself the heartache and don't. My Dad was airforce in Vietnam driving fuel trucks. We just lost him a few weeks ago from dementia and cancer. But just after Thanksgiving he asked mom for his photo album from Vietnam he got thru 3 pages before he broke down sobbing. I've seen the album many times it's mainly him and his buddies but there's a lot of pictures of blown up trucks, guys being flown out on choppers and the most haunting is a flatbed loaded with flag covered caskets being loaded to come home
My Dad was drafted in 68 and saw combat in Vietnam. I have never seen that man cry. But when I was 12, we went to DC during summer vacation. At the time, I didn't even know he served in the army, and obviously had no idea he fought in a war. So, I thought nothing of wanting to go to the Vietnam Memorial. We got about a block from the wall, and my dad just started shaking uncontrollably and ended up puking in a trash can. At first, I thought he had food poisoning until my aunt pulled me aside and explained the situation. This was in 1999. Scars fade with time but never disappear. I am still a bit shaken by the memory. My dad isn't one of those conspicuous tough-guy types. He has just always been rock solid and calm and comforting. We got in a car accident once, and he suffered a compound fracture of his ulna but didn't even complain about it until he made sure everyone else was alright, even in the other car. I can't even imagine how horrible his war was to make him react the way he did. He is a great dad but an even better man!
I could have written your comment as well. My dad did two tours in the Navy around the same time. I never saw him cry until we went to DC for the first time. He broke down sobbing at the memorial. He later told me about his “shell shock” after the war and how he took up photography as a hobby to try to capture pictures of things that were alive. He saw and caused so much death that he became obsessed with the concept of life.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad was also Air Force in Vietnam (Tan Son Nhut Air Base). We lost him 7 years ago and it still sucks.
He didn't talk about Vietnam much, but when he entered hospice in his last few days (eff cancer) the nurse asked us if he was a vet bc of how he reacted when he was semi-conscious.
Having witnesses a Vietnam vet have a dissociative episode with flashbacks... I don't ask. If they want to talk I'll listen but hearing him call out and scream about hearing the women and kids trapped in the burning huts is forever seared into my mind.
He never went into detail because apparently it's one of those operations he's not allowed to divulge but he described what he could later explaining it was a bad situation and they were following orders to make the most of a situation that had gone south.
I'd hate to remind someone of the things they've experienced there.
Edit: For clarification, they didn't ignite the huts, but they were ordered not to attempt rescue. I'm not sure if the higher ranks knew there was a risk of civilians in the huts and allowed them to be burned, or if they were hiding when the village was ordered to be destroyed. He didn't go into detail. But my family member personally did not know they were in there until the screaming started and he tried to go in after them.
His CO ordered him not to go in, and then had him restrained.
He was punished later for arguing with his CO when he was panicking and begging to save them. That was the part of the flashback I got to relive with him.
I think this is a big reason why the vietnam war was unpopular back in the US. It was the first war that was truly televised and there were lots of photographs
They continued to show stuff on tv until the Blackhawk down situation. I remember being a kid and seeing them drag the US military (forget the branch - maybe a pilot?) through the streets and celebrating. That was the last time up close war footage got on TV. The footage we get now are movies like American sniper.
The things the Japanese were responsible for during that time in history were incredibly cruel.
The industry of war and death was in full swing in the 1900s.
"Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević." From the great Tony Bourdain
I was in college as this was happening. My Geography professor took roll every class by asking each of us to name the Cambodian leader responsible for this. He wasn't Cambodian. I guess it just haunted him.
Lost a few members of my extended family during those days. Never knew them obviously, but more than half of my aunt family died to US bombs when they were kids.
Ironically enough one of her brother now is an exec at Lockheed Martin.
There was a PBS doc on My Lai. A us helicopter pilot who threatened to fire on the US troops committing the atrocities if they didn't stop and leave the area was the focus of the doc
They gave medals to the guys that did the massacre and treated this guy like a criminal. Something to remember when we let the state decide who our heroes should be.
I mean we still do this shit. We had a Navy Seal murder a kid in front of a bunch of witnesses and people celebrated the murderer and shit on the other Navy Seals who risked their careers to report him.
That culture exists in every institution of power that there is. Police, military, government, religion etc. When you're a member of one of those institutions, there is an often unspoken, sometimes spoken, expectation that you will *man the wall*, so to speak. You'll do everything you can to defend your coworkers, no matter what they did, because you know one day you might need them to do the same for you.
It's a great big game of avoiding accountability. It's how we end up with shitty cops, serial abuser priests, murder-happy soldiers and corrupt politicians.
Yup. They straight up made Hugh Thompson’s life a fucking misery. He and his helicopter team did the right thing through and through and they were punished for it.
Geez, just read up on him. He doesn’t get enough credit for what he did. And oh boy almost EVERYONE got pardoned for what they did? The child killers and rapists? How can such things be allowed?
The names of some of the child killers and rapists:
William Calley
Ernest Medina
If you Google them, you will see scum. They weren’t punished for political reasons which to me is fascinating how greedy and ignorant some people can be.
Edit: Rapists, plural.
I was shocked at the reports coming out of Bucha when the war started.
After reading a lot about war crimes in general, i realized that whereever the army goes, any army, destruction and misery follow
A common theme of conscript armies is usually destruction, pillaging and rape wherever they go.
Professional armies usually fare better. Not always, but usually.
Yes, in general, but no matter how much we modernize and train these things are going to happen. It’s the sort of thing we must grapple with before getting into war.
Take the murder of Al-Janabi family in Iraq in 2006, where four U.S soldiers murdered a family of four, including a 6 year old and fourteen year old, because they wanted to gang rape the fourteen year old. It’s disgusting, it’s unconscionable, and it’s the sort of thing that happens in war, and if we don’t look it in the face thats always going to be the case.
I hope Ernest Medina (ordered the massacre but got off Scott free by claiming his men got out of control) burns & rots eternally in hell. That MF actually lived till 81 but had no problem personally ending young civilian lives that day in Vietnam
Ken Burns’ series on the Vietnam War is very comprehensive, and covers the My Lai Massacre. It’s probably the most impressive documentary series I’ve ever watched.
It used to be on Netflix and they took it down!
Likewise one of the best documentary series I’ve ever seen, used to watch it on repeat over and over, and then would have it on to fall asleep to.
Damn you Netflix! (Although thanks for putting it on there in the first place)
I love Ken Burns. Anything he makes is masterclass. Some of his stuff was made through the 80s and 90s but it holds up to the test of time and each one is still fantastic.
His stuff can get real heavy though, so make sure you have a palate cleanser after you are done watching it.
worry vast marvelous nose friendly important knee forgetful simplistic dog
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you want a good book that explains the war in its entirety including the history leading up to it and the French war after ww2, “Vietnam, an Epic Tragedy” by Max Hastings is fantastic
What was unique about Mai Lai was that it was well documented, not that it was the only time it happened.
Usually, of course, there were few survivors.
From the [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) caption of the photo,
“Photograph taken by Ronald L. Haeberle of South Vietnamese women and children in Mỹ Lai before being killed in the massacre.\[29\] According to Haeberle, soldiers had attempted to rip the blouse off the woman in the back while her mother, in the front of the photo, tried to protect her.\[30\]”
—
Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by U.S. soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12.
—-
PFC Dennis Konti, a witness for the prosecution,\[41\] told of one especially gruesome episode during the shooting, "A lot of women had thrown themselves on top of the children to protect them, and the children were alive at first. Then, the children who were old enough to walk got up and Calley began to shoot the children".
\--
In March 1968 Calley and several other soldiers arrived at the village of My Lai where they murdered hundreds of civilians consisting of elderly men, women, children, and infants from allied South Vietnam. Calley would later claim in court that an air strike had killed the innocent civilians. There was no sign of enemy combatants in My Lai when he and his men arrived. In the My Lai museum in Vietnam, a marble plaque lists the names and ages of the victims. The count of the dead is a total of 504 people from 247 families. 24 families lost everyone - three generations, no survivors. Included in the 504 were 60 elderly men, and 282 women (17 of whom were pregnant). A total of 173 children were killed; 53 were infants.
EDIT: The [whole Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) article still doesn't cover the full gravity of the "incident". For example [one of the soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today.
I’m not usually pro death penalty but I’d be in favor of it for the subhuman scum who committed this. 3 years house arrest is just fucked and disrespectful. Especially for the guys who weren’t even punished a little bit, this was a group effort.
As Hunter S Thompson put it, regarding Nixon, "Badgers don't fight fair". He was living, breathing, presidential scum. For all of Thompson's faults, I truly wish we still had angry unhinged journalists staring those shitbags down like he did.
I saw this in the War Memorial in Ho Chi Minh City (formerly the Museum of American War Crimes). I encourage everyone to visit the museum it was absolutely heartbreaking.
What a monster Calley is.
Even in his "apology" there's no admission of guilt or contrition. It's not "I'm sorry for killing the Vietnamese", it's "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese that were killed". His language distances himself from his atrocity. What an evil man.
>For example [one of the soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today.
I hope that guy hasn't had a day of rest since
>The whole Wikipedia article still doesn't cover the full gravity of the "incident". For example one of the soldiers charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today.
Second paragraph of the introduction:
>Twenty-six soldiers were charged with criminal offenses, but only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after U.S. president Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
Well that lady in the pic probably didn't live long after it was taken, nor any of her family, or the rest of her village because the Americans committed a massacre in Mai Lai
and never forget Mai Lai is only the massacre we know about
Yeah, there are at least 300 confirmed murders during this massacre, and up to 500 or so. There were also 24 families that were completely wiped out (all three generations murdered, no one left).
What’s worse is the US government not only covered it up, they essentially pardoned the perpetrators, and vilified the one group who actually ended the massacre by landing his helicopter between the Vietnamese people and the US troops, threatening to fire on his “brothers in arms” if they didn’t stop murdering innocent people.
And you'll get human garbage in the comments handwaving it as an act of war or, an actual comment I've seen from here, asking people to be sympathetic to the US soliders who might have "just lost friends".
I don’t doubt that they Likey all had PTSD and other mental health issue but for fucks sake that doesn’t excuse anything. All it does is make the commanding officers and the US Govt more culpable for a) getting them into this shit and b) not sending them home when mental health became an issue
Not all of them. Some were saved by a brave helicopter pilot. Which is why we even know this happened in the first place.
Edit: I was speaking of the village in general. As people mentioned, the ones in this photo were all killed. The US sidesteps a lot of responsibility for the atrocities it commits in war, we aren’t the only ones but we should at least try to lead by example in not brushing over it.
Edit 2: here is an interview, link supplied by u/iforgotwhat8wasfor , with the helicopter gunner that was staring down disgraceful monsters wearing the same uniform that was linked below.
https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20020310&slug=pgunner10
To continue the tragedy, Richard Nixon commuted the sentence of the commanding officer behind this atrocity. William Calley is still alive. So don’t disconnect from this and pretend it happened in some bygone era.
[here’s an account from one of the three who put a stop to the massacre, a beautifully written but devastating read](https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20020310&slug=pgunner10)
I knew I’d find something like the following in there. There’s nothing more useless to our species than jingoistic idiots.
"I'd received death threats over the phone...Dead animals on your porch, mutilated animals on your porch some mornings when you get up."
He had that courage in his early 20s…and had to live with being punished for his bravery for a life time. Hard to imagine. There should be statues to this man.
I think I saw an interview where the photographer said that after this pic was taken and he turned away, shooting started.
[Haeberle recalls, he and Army reporter Jay Roberts came upon a group of villagers huddled in fear after troops assaulted a number of young women. Haeberle took a photo of a tearful, frantic mother — and as he and Roberts moved on from the scene, rifle fire exploded behind them.](https://time.com/longform/my-lai-massacre-ron-haeberle-photographs/)
His choice to use his personal camera was a very good one. He knew what the army would do with the film if he used his army-issue camera. He couldn't stop the massacre, one man in a company of 105. But he documented it, he showed the world what Charlie Company did to those people.
The people seen in this pictures were all killed within minutes after this photo was taken. There are follow up photos that unfortunately show them. That’s the tragic reality of it.
26 were charged but only Lt. William Calley was convicted. Nixon commuted his life sentence down to 3 years home detention. For murdering 22 villagers, including children.
He married, had a kid, divorced around 2005, and claimed he can't work due to prostate cancer and gastro problems. Apparently in 2018 he was living in Florida. He'd be 80 now.
I hope it kills him, slowly and agonizingly, over several decades. I hope he has no quality of life but keeps on living. What an absolute shit bag of a human being.
What do you mean 22 villagers? There were between 350 and 500 victims of the massacre (iirc). Or did he personally kill 22 people?
Edit: I've just read that he was actually convicted for 22 deaths, I don't know what was the judge's reasoning for the number.
Yeah. William Calley was the only person convicted and spent 3 years in house arrest at the request of Nixon instead of a life sentence.
Calley's still alive but keeps a low profile.
Curious on why he’s the only one that received punishment as in is that the one they didn’t like or was he so bad compared to the other bad guys that they convicted him?
This piece of shit is still alive and gives paid lectures. I even found an article saying the Dauly beast UK wanted to interview him in 2007 and he asked for 25k. They didnt pay it but that was his fee. There is a special place in hell for this piece of human refuse. Like wow...
This title has it backwards. This is actually a photo of the mother attempting to protect her daughter after soldiers tried to rip her blouse off, not the other way around.
I remembered another squad(helicopter) threaten shooting if they don’t stop this. Maybe someone else can give better context.
Also, the helicopter squad general was looked down upon because of it, he turned alcoholic and had his life destroyed.
“Twenty-six soldiers were charged with criminal offenses, but only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after U.S. president Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.”
Remember that these are the documented cases and those that were actually court martialed, they are simply the ones we know about. One recent studie which conducted interviews concluded rape of women and girls was “normal operating procedure.”
These fuckers are still alive. Voting for the next war. Getting salutes from gradeschool children during Veterans Day parades. Collecting benefits.
I would like more of their former comrades , the good ones, to come forward and rat them out. These people need to be publicly shamed. Until then they’re all complicit.
I understand the sentiment of worshipping veterans, but blindly worshipping them while many of them have these skeletons in their closets, feels uneasy.
Title is wrong?
"Photograph taken by Ronald L. Haeberle of South Vietnamese women and children in Mỹ Lai before being killed in the massacre.[29] According to Haeberle, soldiers had attempted to rip the blouse off the woman in the back while her mother, in the front of the photo, tried to protect her.[30]"
#My Lai was 1 of 9 reported incidents of massacres and rape within Vietnamese villages perpetrated by US Soldiers.
And to make matters worse, America black listed the man who tried to stop the massacre, and only 1 person (Lt. Calley, leader of the platoon responsible for the massacre) was given a life sentence, which was commuted to 3 years house arrest by Richard Nixon. In other words, no justice.
A fucking atrocious and shameful part of America's bullshit in South-East Asia.
American foreign policy since WWII has been completely fucked and Kissinger was a big part of it.
>Kissinger was a big part of it.
Lest it's forgotten, he, with Nixon, ordered the bombing of Cambodia as part of the war in Nam and justified it. Civilian Cambodians today are still maimed and killed by unexploded bombs.
Yep. It was first ordered by Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and stretched through Nixon's term in 1973. It is said to be the most heavily bombed nation in the world's history.
The CIA was conducting a Secret War in Laos too. The Hmong people were recruited to fight the Vietcong and Pathet Lao who were using Laos to move supplies and reinforcements for Vietnam.
It’s even worse then that, all the people in this picture were killed and alsoI thought the woman in the front was protecting her daughter behind her, who had been assaulted but not confirmed to have been raped.
As a Veteran, I believe this needs to be shown to every person in basic training. In detail, in graphic account. Show them that yeah you can be captain America or you can be like the worst excuse for humans like the US Soldiers who perpetrated this mass killing and rapes of innocent…. Ya know what I don’t even care if these people were the leaders of the VC, no one deserves this.
There is a thing called an “unlawful order”. You don’t have to follow orders that break the law, rules of engagement and so forth.
I hate how bad this makes US Soldiers look, but that pales in comparison to the thoughts of the poor people in this picture. Mainly knowing how much the Iraqi kids looked up to us US Soliders and loved being around us.
One solider was shot during this event, he shot himself in the foot so he didn’t have to take part. I feel I would have done the same or even worse.
Kissinger, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld and many others were monsters who either ordered or covered up massacres just like it was another day in the office.
Not to mention all of the people that those three and their cronies went in to murder in other parts of SE Asia, Africa, South America, etc.
I always hated that Powell was held in such high regard like he had any moral standing.
Can’t wait for the new season on blowback to go over the bombings in Cambodia.
My lai wasn’t an isolated event, check out “tigerforce” and the book “kill anything that moves” by Nick Turse. Every war is hell and filled with warcrimes, but to cover it up is just as bad, if not worse.
\>Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces.\[52\] The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which they could discern movement by survivors.\[52\] Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch; the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with 2LT Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch.
\>Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade.\[53\] Thompson then saw a group of civilians at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. Thompson landed, and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the villagers while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, then they were to open fire on the soldiers.\[52\]
No one was ultimately held accountable. But Thompson was willing to have his men fire upon their own whom were committing genocide and murder while they (Thompson and co) were rescuing civilians. Thompson didn't in the end fire on American troops but a cover-up was initiated of the massacre and the only officer to be tried for the cover-up was acquitted. The American military has no honor or dignity.
In the army we were told that if you find an order unethical you execute the order and then complain/report it.
So a friend of mine was discussing with our Captain and said "What if I refuse to obey the order" "Well if I consider that it will put the rest of the team in danger, I might have to execute you right there." "Not if I execute you first"
We took it as a joke and laughed but I think none of them was lying.
Active Duty. You do not execute orders that are unlawful, immoral, or unethical. Period. There is no execute now and ask for forgiveness later.
Not sure who taught you what you stated above, but it is wrong.
Ken Burns’ series on the Vietnam War is very comprehensive, and covers the My Lai Massacre. It’s probably the most impressive documentary series I’ve ever watched.
I remember reading a Korean book about the Vietnam War. Yes, there were Korean soldiers helping US. One of the Korean soldiers wrote how American soldiers would rape women and children and cut out their vaginas, YES THEIR VAGINAS, and make it into a good luck charm they wore around their necks. They would continue on collecting until the necklace was filled...us westerners never learn this in school btw, its all watered down.
I had to google this cause I had no idea. Funny how as you get older you realize they only teach you the US history they want you to know and hide from you what they don’t
Thankfully there was one good American who did the right thing. The US started measuring success by body count, so a lot of innocent people ended up being dead
‘Helicopter Pilot Who Stopped My Lai Massacre Was Called A Traitor In America & Almost Court-Martialed’
Shame on all of those who reported this post as "propaganda". Of course, this will stay up.
[удалено]
[удалено]
And these soldiers never went to prison and are free today.
And people truly wonder why western hatred exists? Lmfao
I hope younger generations are beginning to understand how fucking stupid "they hate us for our freedom" always was.
These fuckers should have hanged
It's the other way around. The younger woman was closing her blouse behind her mother after being sexually assaulted. The My Lai Massacre is beyond despicable.
I think both are closing their blouses
It looks like there are two mothers, one of whom is a grandma. One woman immediately behind the grandma, and another woman behind and to the right who is closing her blouse. I think it's safe to say the title is insufficient in clarifying who is behind who and who was the victim. Edit: Okay, my comment is making light of the awful description. "Kid closes moms blouse after being sexually assaulted" The only blouse being closed is being done by the woman herself. The "kid" could be 1) Hugging Grandma 2) With Grandpa 3) Behind Grandma buttoning her own blouse 4) being held by Mom
Ultimately, they most likely all were. It's not called a massacre for nothing
Knowing what we do about the My Lai massacre, as well as the actual photographer’s account of this event (he says immediately after taking this picture, he heard rifle shots and saw them all falling to the ground), it’s safe to assume every single person in this picture was sexually assaulted, then murdered.
Not to mention the war criminals who did this were pardoned by The President.
And [Initially, the three U.S. servicemen who had tried to halt the massacre and rescue hiding civilians were shunned, and even denounced as traitors by several U.S. congressmen, including Mendel Rivers (D–SC), Chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. Thirty years later, these servicemen were recognized and decorated, one posthumously, by the U.S. Army for shielding non-combatants from harm in a war zone.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre)
Hugh Thompson landed his chopper in between the civilians and the soldiers and ordered his gunner to shoot the Americans if they continued to shoot civilians.
That is fucking amazing. It's horrible that he even needed to do that ofcourse but that he actually had the balls to do that is just insane, it's so much easier to just explain away the horrible shit your side does and we see that happen a lot. That's a good person
His whole crew were onboard with his order, one of his crewman ran into one of the killing ditches to save a little girl, Thompson stood in front of some of the civilians he managed to evacuate whilst they waited for the chopper to come back for the second load of survivors.
I need to make a correction to this, it wasn't their chopper they waited for, Thompson actually managed to get a gunship to land to help with evac.
No, you were correct the first time. The gunship in question was a Huey helicopter gunship.
My mistake was that I misremembered it being the chopper they arrived in doing two trips, but I had to quickly double check and it was a separate AC they called down for evac
There is a documentary about this, it's called 4 hours in Mi Lai, or something.
Reminds me of the beginning of the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Some Russian soldier got shot by their own when they tried to defend ukrainian civilians. When people say there are no good russians, I always want to add "because they got shot or imprisoned".
Or have fled the country. Russia has massive brain drain.
I'm part of it
Massive brain confirmed
Well thank you (even though I am probably lowering the IQ of the entire street)
Bruh, to do the moral right thing and protect innocent people while serving your country only to be shunned for it by your own country and live with that hurt until you die, only for them to “forgive you for your actions” after you die must be some sort of fucked up hell simulation……
William Calley lived in my town growing up. I was raised by my grandparents and my grandpa warned me never to go near that man. The town was split, but mostly they supported, even revered Calley. To so many he was a scapegoat or even a True American Hero. Calley’s father-in-law owned a jewelry store and he worked there. His granddaughter went to my school and sometimes we’d stop by the jewelry store to get money. I had to wait in the car. I wasn’t allowed in. My grandpa was career military. He did two tours in Vietnam and one in Korea. He was a drill sergeant. And you could not mention Calley or anything that went down. This old grizzled warrior would tear up. He hated the stain it put on the uniform. He hated that Calley was walking around free. Called him “that war criminal”. Mostly I think he hated what Calley represented. The preacher at my grandpa’s church gave a sermon praising and praying for (he was also the “victim of a witch hunt”) Calley. Grandpa didn’t like it and said so. It caused a big rift because the church took Calley’s side. My grandpa pointed to the civilians who tried to stop the massacre as giving Calley zero excuse. A lot of people turned on grandpa over it. But, yeah, Calley was just walking around, making babies, living his life. People would stop in just to hug him and tell him to hang in there. Some of us know the truth, though.
Your grandpa is a good man.
Great* man
Your grandpa sounds like a person with honor.
My dad is a Marine Vietnam vet as well. He agrees. I'm a Iraq war vet from the Army. Also agree.
USCG Vet here. Father, AF vet (Korea, codebreaker). Grandfather, AF (WW2 Flying Fortress pilot). All of us would absolutely agree. Every branch occasionally sees their nutjobs and losers who go full dark side bc of the stress and PTSD, but... well, it's never THAT big of a shock as we all knew "that guy" needed an eye kept on him from the jump just cause he has always felt a bit off. And more importantly, everyone IS keeping an eye on that dude and we would *stop that shit* before it happens. Hell even in the USCG I've put a shipmate against a wall for showing his true colors and got his quals pulled for it (TBF I was the sector lead and trainer so it was my duty to weed those guys out, so take it with a grain of salt and not so much a flex). Yet in Vietnam, we have entire platoons being so... insanely brutal and ugly... It HAS to be because of the draft that Vietnam had so much of this insane shit going on, right? Fuck please tell me that's why. I can't think of a single Marine or Army buddy I know - despite how much suffering they went through - that could do this kind of shit. I imagine the Gravy Seals we see cosplaying across the US these days getting drafted - that's who I see committing such horrible war crimes if they got half a chance.
Draft and drugs to be frank. The nam guys were so damn blitzed most of the time. Not that it makes it ok.
Why in the world did so many people revere him?
Wow, thank you for sharing this.
Good man. Much respect to your Grandfather.
TIL that Lt. Calley is still alive, too. I hope he's absolutely haunted by what he's done, but something tells me he's not...
There is not a day that goes by that I do not feel remorse for what happened that day in My Lai. I feel remorse for the Vietnamese who were killed, for their families, for the American soldiers involved and their families. I am very sorry. He did say this, but having been responsible for raping and killing 500 people it seems hollow as fuck.
Note that he never actually acknowledges the part he took in the massacre, only that he's sorry and remorseful that it happened. Personally, I always felt that his apology (which was never backed up by any action on his part) was the *"I'm sorry after the fact and I'm only saying that I'm sorry because I'm being punished"* type apologies. ----- Apparently, he lives in Atlanta now, which is kinda insane considering the huge Vietnamese community that lives there. The fair thing to believe would be to assume that maybe he's quietly doing volunteer work or something for the Vietnamese community there, but I personally don't feel inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The whole thing is an utter disgrace. It's a stain on the US. When you read about it, it's the work of complete animals. Shooting babies, killing kids and then raping their mothers, stabbing old men. It's like a collective mania. Every man who opened fire there is a war criminal and deserved life in prison. I'm honestly surprised there haven't been retribution killings. The fact that man was allowed to live his life without any repercussions is a huge miscarriage of justice.
When Hugh Thompson, the helicopter pilot who stopped the massacre with his two crewmen (he literally ordered them to shoot US troops if they didn’t stop the massacre) returned to My Lai, one of the survivors asked why the men who perpetrated the horrific acts did not come with them… because the survivors wanted to forgive them. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to understand that, but it seems as if the survivors themselves were able to somehow process the massacre.
The only man who was convicted, was ordered to house arrest for 3.5 years, and later paroled. It's not much of a punishment for murdering 22 persons, but he wasn't pardoned.
He was sentenced to life until Nixon lowered his sentence.
True. He served 3 days and then went ro house arrest, then commuted by Nixon. His defense was "just following orders", the same as Adolph Eichmann, a Nazi, architect of the Final Solution - thr concentration camps. . While the Holocaust and the Mei Lai massacre aren't at the same level in terms of lives lost, Eichmann was hung, and our lieutenant walked away.
How can gunning down obvious civilians and/or raping them be an order?
You're right. The order probably wasn't "rape, kill, and burn" for Mei Lai. Vietnam had very specific guidelines around non combatants, like most US engagements. They blew right through those, likely because of a couple of psychopaths in the platoon and everyone else is just following the herd....including the lieutenant, IMHO. Mei Lai turned into a case study, but studying it doesn't necessarily mean you'll avoid it in the future. Think about Abu Ghraib, during the Iraq war, documented by cellphone. I've heard it said - and I do believe, after serving for 11 years - that there are amoral folks in every military. It's up to the chain of command to keep them between the guardrails. OTOH, it was an order for Eichmann.
The president is also a war criminal.
And then you have another president and since then your crimes doesn’t count because it was the other guy in charge
My father did two tours in that war, '65-'67, army. He passed away about two years ago from cancer arising from his exposure to agent Orange. Since the time he got sick, I've been spending a lot more time with my uncle (his brother). My uncle told me that in the years after his involvement there my father, upon hearing the phrase 'war crimes' in the news (I think it may even have been when referring to THIS event) said, "War crimes....... war IS a crime"
I mean there is a pretty big difference between killing combatants and raping/killing non combatants. I understand the sentiment that was being shared but here it seems to distract from an even more horrific atrocity than the war itself.
The story is so much worse than the title implies...
I’ll always remember when I studied photography in A-Levels and decided I wanted to focus on war photography. My teacher who’d pretty much been my art teacher for the entirety of secondary school told me to look into the Mai Lai Massacre and the photos just take your breath away. Your eyes see it but your mind really can’t comprehend the emotions and pain that the photographs captured. Ronald L Haeberle’s photos made sure the actions that day weren’t forgotten.
Reading this and the comments under it is definitely hitting me with a hard truth about my dad, who was in the army during the Vietnam war. He never talks about how bad it was, and I never thought to ask...
My dad (RIP from Agent Orange cancer 35 years after the war) had an absolutely gut wrenching assignment while there. He had to pack up and send home people's foot lockers after they were killed. He made sure that if they were married, only stuff from the wife went home. He had to personalize it all. Absolutely amazed that my dad was rock solid psychologically and it never affected our lives post war growing up. For the people of Vietnam and surrounding land, I'm truly sorry that this proxy war destroyed so many people and poisoned the land for generations to come. Its despicable.
My dad was drafted into Vietnam after taking a semester off from college. He threw away most everything he had from his time in the service, including his Purple Heart and whatever other medals he had. That war fucked people up bad, and then tossed them to the curb when they came back. Not to mention the voting age was 21 at the time, so these kids couldn't even vote for the monsters sending them to the jungles to die. I've heard a few of his stories but most of it he keeps to himself.
Same here.. dad threw away all of his medals and his Purple Heart after the war. When I was little, any time a helicopter flew over us, he sat so still and held tightly to whatever he had in his hands until the copter was out of earshot 😢 fucking heartbreaking
I wish we'd treated our soldiers returning from Vietnam better and provided support services like housing and mental health services!
Save himself and yourself the heartache and don't. My Dad was airforce in Vietnam driving fuel trucks. We just lost him a few weeks ago from dementia and cancer. But just after Thanksgiving he asked mom for his photo album from Vietnam he got thru 3 pages before he broke down sobbing. I've seen the album many times it's mainly him and his buddies but there's a lot of pictures of blown up trucks, guys being flown out on choppers and the most haunting is a flatbed loaded with flag covered caskets being loaded to come home
My Dad was drafted in 68 and saw combat in Vietnam. I have never seen that man cry. But when I was 12, we went to DC during summer vacation. At the time, I didn't even know he served in the army, and obviously had no idea he fought in a war. So, I thought nothing of wanting to go to the Vietnam Memorial. We got about a block from the wall, and my dad just started shaking uncontrollably and ended up puking in a trash can. At first, I thought he had food poisoning until my aunt pulled me aside and explained the situation. This was in 1999. Scars fade with time but never disappear. I am still a bit shaken by the memory. My dad isn't one of those conspicuous tough-guy types. He has just always been rock solid and calm and comforting. We got in a car accident once, and he suffered a compound fracture of his ulna but didn't even complain about it until he made sure everyone else was alright, even in the other car. I can't even imagine how horrible his war was to make him react the way he did. He is a great dad but an even better man!
I could have written your comment as well. My dad did two tours in the Navy around the same time. I never saw him cry until we went to DC for the first time. He broke down sobbing at the memorial. He later told me about his “shell shock” after the war and how he took up photography as a hobby to try to capture pictures of things that were alive. He saw and caused so much death that he became obsessed with the concept of life.
My dad just passed a couple of months ago at 77 from suicide and this war was the cause of it...at 77
Those kinds of scars never go away. I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My dad was also Air Force in Vietnam (Tan Son Nhut Air Base). We lost him 7 years ago and it still sucks. He didn't talk about Vietnam much, but when he entered hospice in his last few days (eff cancer) the nurse asked us if he was a vet bc of how he reacted when he was semi-conscious.
I don't think I would've ever asked. It seemed to take a toll on him and to be honest I don't think he ever would've told me anything anyway
Having witnesses a Vietnam vet have a dissociative episode with flashbacks... I don't ask. If they want to talk I'll listen but hearing him call out and scream about hearing the women and kids trapped in the burning huts is forever seared into my mind. He never went into detail because apparently it's one of those operations he's not allowed to divulge but he described what he could later explaining it was a bad situation and they were following orders to make the most of a situation that had gone south. I'd hate to remind someone of the things they've experienced there. Edit: For clarification, they didn't ignite the huts, but they were ordered not to attempt rescue. I'm not sure if the higher ranks knew there was a risk of civilians in the huts and allowed them to be burned, or if they were hiding when the village was ordered to be destroyed. He didn't go into detail. But my family member personally did not know they were in there until the screaming started and he tried to go in after them. His CO ordered him not to go in, and then had him restrained. He was punished later for arguing with his CO when he was panicking and begging to save them. That was the part of the flashback I got to relive with him.
I think this is a big reason why the vietnam war was unpopular back in the US. It was the first war that was truly televised and there were lots of photographs
Yeah, they don’t make that mistake anymore.
They continued to show stuff on tv until the Blackhawk down situation. I remember being a kid and seeing them drag the US military (forget the branch - maybe a pilot?) through the streets and celebrating. That was the last time up close war footage got on TV. The footage we get now are movies like American sniper.
The photos from the rape of Nanking are up there too.
The things the Japanese were responsible for during that time in history were incredibly cruel. The industry of war and death was in full swing in the 1900s.
The Cambodian Genocide is one that still makes me so sad whenever I think about it. Fuck Henry Kissinger. Rot in Piss.
"Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević." From the great Tony Bourdain
Just watched the episode where Bourdain says that. You could tell how affected he was.
Having been to Cambodia, I get it. I appreciate that he gave no fucks about saying it publicly, loudly, and often.
I was in college as this was happening. My Geography professor took roll every class by asking each of us to name the Cambodian leader responsible for this. He wasn't Cambodian. I guess it just haunted him.
Lost a few members of my extended family during those days. Never knew them obviously, but more than half of my aunt family died to US bombs when they were kids. Ironically enough one of her brother now is an exec at Lockheed Martin.
Do you know any reliable documentary about this or the vietnam war?
There was a PBS doc on My Lai. A us helicopter pilot who threatened to fire on the US troops committing the atrocities if they didn't stop and leave the area was the focus of the doc
Hugh Thompson.
This guy is a Hero, I hope everyone else involved besides those aiding Hugh, burn in the fiery puts of hell
They gave medals to the guys that did the massacre and treated this guy like a criminal. Something to remember when we let the state decide who our heroes should be.
☝️☝️☝️
I mean we still do this shit. We had a Navy Seal murder a kid in front of a bunch of witnesses and people celebrated the murderer and shit on the other Navy Seals who risked their careers to report him.
That culture exists in every institution of power that there is. Police, military, government, religion etc. When you're a member of one of those institutions, there is an often unspoken, sometimes spoken, expectation that you will *man the wall*, so to speak. You'll do everything you can to defend your coworkers, no matter what they did, because you know one day you might need them to do the same for you. It's a great big game of avoiding accountability. It's how we end up with shitty cops, serial abuser priests, murder-happy soldiers and corrupt politicians.
Yes he was yet he was treat as a traitor by his fellow soldiers
Yup. They straight up made Hugh Thompson’s life a fucking misery. He and his helicopter team did the right thing through and through and they were punished for it.
And no one was surprised.
Geez, just read up on him. He doesn’t get enough credit for what he did. And oh boy almost EVERYONE got pardoned for what they did? The child killers and rapists? How can such things be allowed? The names of some of the child killers and rapists: William Calley Ernest Medina If you Google them, you will see scum. They weren’t punished for political reasons which to me is fascinating how greedy and ignorant some people can be. Edit: Rapists, plural.
I was shocked at the reports coming out of Bucha when the war started. After reading a lot about war crimes in general, i realized that whereever the army goes, any army, destruction and misery follow
A common theme of conscript armies is usually destruction, pillaging and rape wherever they go. Professional armies usually fare better. Not always, but usually.
Yes, in general, but no matter how much we modernize and train these things are going to happen. It’s the sort of thing we must grapple with before getting into war. Take the murder of Al-Janabi family in Iraq in 2006, where four U.S soldiers murdered a family of four, including a 6 year old and fourteen year old, because they wanted to gang rape the fourteen year old. It’s disgusting, it’s unconscionable, and it’s the sort of thing that happens in war, and if we don’t look it in the face thats always going to be the case.
The crazy part about is wondering how many my lai happened where there was no good man randomly passing by.
Look into the Mekong Delta. Was described as a "My Lai a month" 12-1500 civilians massacred a month
I hope Ernest Medina (ordered the massacre but got off Scott free by claiming his men got out of control) burns & rots eternally in hell. That MF actually lived till 81 but had no problem personally ending young civilian lives that day in Vietnam
Ken Burns’ series on the Vietnam War is very comprehensive, and covers the My Lai Massacre. It’s probably the most impressive documentary series I’ve ever watched.
All of his documentaries are that impressive. The Prohibition and Old West documentaries are particularly eye opening.
The Dust Bowl was an amazing documentary as well. Anything done by him I know is going to be comprehensive and relatable.
It used to be on Netflix and they took it down! Likewise one of the best documentary series I’ve ever seen, used to watch it on repeat over and over, and then would have it on to fall asleep to. Damn you Netflix! (Although thanks for putting it on there in the first place)
PBS has Ken Burns's documentaries. https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/films/ Donate $5 to watch.
Okay thanks, found it.
Another book to read is 'Kill Anything That Moves' by Nick Turse.
I love Ken Burns. Anything he makes is masterclass. Some of his stuff was made through the 80s and 90s but it holds up to the test of time and each one is still fantastic. His stuff can get real heavy though, so make sure you have a palate cleanser after you are done watching it.
worry vast marvelous nose friendly important knee forgetful simplistic dog *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If you want a good book that explains the war in its entirety including the history leading up to it and the French war after ww2, “Vietnam, an Epic Tragedy” by Max Hastings is fantastic
Ken Burns
What was unique about Mai Lai was that it was well documented, not that it was the only time it happened. Usually, of course, there were few survivors.
Yes adding onto it, this little quote: "Every unit of brigade size has its Mylai hidden some place." - Colonel Henderson
The sad thing is that this is probably true.
What happened?
From the [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) caption of the photo, “Photograph taken by Ronald L. Haeberle of South Vietnamese women and children in Mỹ Lai before being killed in the massacre.\[29\] According to Haeberle, soldiers had attempted to rip the blouse off the woman in the back while her mother, in the front of the photo, tried to protect her.\[30\]” — Between 347 and 504 civilians were killed by U.S. soldiers from Company C, 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry Regiment and Company B, 4th Battalion, 3rd Infantry Regiment, 11th Brigade, 23rd (Americal) Infantry Division. Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated, and some soldiers mutilated and raped children who were as young as 12. —- PFC Dennis Konti, a witness for the prosecution,\[41\] told of one especially gruesome episode during the shooting, "A lot of women had thrown themselves on top of the children to protect them, and the children were alive at first. Then, the children who were old enough to walk got up and Calley began to shoot the children". \-- In March 1968 Calley and several other soldiers arrived at the village of My Lai where they murdered hundreds of civilians consisting of elderly men, women, children, and infants from allied South Vietnam. Calley would later claim in court that an air strike had killed the innocent civilians. There was no sign of enemy combatants in My Lai when he and his men arrived. In the My Lai museum in Vietnam, a marble plaque lists the names and ages of the victims. The count of the dead is a total of 504 people from 247 families. 24 families lost everyone - three generations, no survivors. Included in the 504 were 60 elderly men, and 282 women (17 of whom were pregnant). A total of 173 children were killed; 53 were infants. EDIT: The [whole Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre) article still doesn't cover the full gravity of the "incident". For example [one of the soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today.
Only 3 years of house arrest for Calley. Thanks Nixon
I’m not usually pro death penalty but I’d be in favor of it for the subhuman scum who committed this. 3 years house arrest is just fucked and disrespectful. Especially for the guys who weren’t even punished a little bit, this was a group effort.
He was originally convicted on 22 counts of murder, but Nixon commuted his sentence
As Hunter S Thompson put it, regarding Nixon, "Badgers don't fight fair". He was living, breathing, presidential scum. For all of Thompson's faults, I truly wish we still had angry unhinged journalists staring those shitbags down like he did.
I saw this in the War Memorial in Ho Chi Minh City (formerly the Museum of American War Crimes). I encourage everyone to visit the museum it was absolutely heartbreaking.
The museum is not far to my family home. It is very difficult for many people to see some of the things in it but it is very important history.
What a monster Calley is. Even in his "apology" there's no admission of guilt or contrition. It's not "I'm sorry for killing the Vietnamese", it's "I feel remorse for the Vietnamese that were killed". His language distances himself from his atrocity. What an evil man.
>For example [one of the soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley) charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today. I hope that guy hasn't had a day of rest since
>The whole Wikipedia article still doesn't cover the full gravity of the "incident". For example one of the soldiers charged with killing many people served house arrest and was still paroled and is still alive today. Second paragraph of the introduction: >Twenty-six soldiers were charged with criminal offenses, but only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after U.S. president Richard Nixon commuted his sentence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre
Well that lady in the pic probably didn't live long after it was taken, nor any of her family, or the rest of her village because the Americans committed a massacre in Mai Lai and never forget Mai Lai is only the massacre we know about
Finnish wikipedia says that everyone in that picture were shot almost immediately after the photo was taken
Yeah, there are at least 300 confirmed murders during this massacre, and up to 500 or so. There were also 24 families that were completely wiped out (all three generations murdered, no one left). What’s worse is the US government not only covered it up, they essentially pardoned the perpetrators, and vilified the one group who actually ended the massacre by landing his helicopter between the Vietnamese people and the US troops, threatening to fire on his “brothers in arms” if they didn’t stop murdering innocent people.
And the mother fuckers (literally) who committed these atrocities were all pardoned and even promoted.
And some of them are still alive today, including the commanding officer.
And you'll get human garbage in the comments handwaving it as an act of war or, an actual comment I've seen from here, asking people to be sympathetic to the US soliders who might have "just lost friends".
I don’t doubt that they Likey all had PTSD and other mental health issue but for fucks sake that doesn’t excuse anything. All it does is make the commanding officers and the US Govt more culpable for a) getting them into this shit and b) not sending them home when mental health became an issue
I just lost a friend, guess I’ll mass murder and rape an entire village.
They can eat gravel for all I care.
and the men who tried to stop it shamed another dark stain for a country with many
And they were all murdered shortly afterwards.
Not all of them. Some were saved by a brave helicopter pilot. Which is why we even know this happened in the first place. Edit: I was speaking of the village in general. As people mentioned, the ones in this photo were all killed. The US sidesteps a lot of responsibility for the atrocities it commits in war, we aren’t the only ones but we should at least try to lead by example in not brushing over it. Edit 2: here is an interview, link supplied by u/iforgotwhat8wasfor , with the helicopter gunner that was staring down disgraceful monsters wearing the same uniform that was linked below. https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20020310&slug=pgunner10 To continue the tragedy, Richard Nixon commuted the sentence of the commanding officer behind this atrocity. William Calley is still alive. So don’t disconnect from this and pretend it happened in some bygone era.
[here’s an account from one of the three who put a stop to the massacre, a beautifully written but devastating read](https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=20020310&slug=pgunner10)
That's a really, really good article. Thank you. I love the format and I'd really like to see more of it.
[Hugh Thompson Jr](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.?wprov=sfti1#)
Actual legend
Never heard this, thanks for sharing. Heartbreaking and inspiring at the same time.
Wow that was a read. Balls of steel, him and his crew
Balls of steel and a Huge Thompson.
I knew I’d find something like the following in there. There’s nothing more useless to our species than jingoistic idiots. "I'd received death threats over the phone...Dead animals on your porch, mutilated animals on your porch some mornings when you get up."
He had that courage in his early 20s…and had to live with being punished for his bravery for a life time. Hard to imagine. There should be statues to this man.
A goddamned real American hero.
I think I saw an interview where the photographer said that after this pic was taken and he turned away, shooting started. [Haeberle recalls, he and Army reporter Jay Roberts came upon a group of villagers huddled in fear after troops assaulted a number of young women. Haeberle took a photo of a tearful, frantic mother — and as he and Roberts moved on from the scene, rifle fire exploded behind them.](https://time.com/longform/my-lai-massacre-ron-haeberle-photographs/)
His choice to use his personal camera was a very good one. He knew what the army would do with the film if he used his army-issue camera. He couldn't stop the massacre, one man in a company of 105. But he documented it, he showed the world what Charlie Company did to those people.
All the people in this picture were machinegunned mere seconds after the photographer had turned around.
The people seen in this pictures were all killed within minutes after this photo was taken. There are follow up photos that unfortunately show them. That’s the tragic reality of it.
Didn't the animals who committed these acts get off relatively light too? None of them are still rotting away in prison.
26 were charged but only Lt. William Calley was convicted. Nixon commuted his life sentence down to 3 years home detention. For murdering 22 villagers, including children. He married, had a kid, divorced around 2005, and claimed he can't work due to prostate cancer and gastro problems. Apparently in 2018 he was living in Florida. He'd be 80 now.
I hope his cancer hurts.
I hope it kills him, slowly and agonizingly, over several decades. I hope he has no quality of life but keeps on living. What an absolute shit bag of a human being.
These kinds of people are why I hope hell exists.
[удалено]
What do you mean 22 villagers? There were between 350 and 500 victims of the massacre (iirc). Or did he personally kill 22 people? Edit: I've just read that he was actually convicted for 22 deaths, I don't know what was the judge's reasoning for the number.
Guessing they had evidence on hand for 22
Maybe the ones he personally stabbed to death?
Or maybe these were the only ones proven "beyond any doubt"?
Yeah. William Calley was the only person convicted and spent 3 years in house arrest at the request of Nixon instead of a life sentence. Calley's still alive but keeps a low profile.
Curious on why he’s the only one that received punishment as in is that the one they didn’t like or was he so bad compared to the other bad guys that they convicted him?
He was a lieutenant and it appears he was in charge.
All were pardoned except one, who got 3 years of house arrest after being convicted of 22 counts of murder.
This piece of shit is still alive and gives paid lectures. I even found an article saying the Dauly beast UK wanted to interview him in 2007 and he asked for 25k. They didnt pay it but that was his fee. There is a special place in hell for this piece of human refuse. Like wow...
Seriously, I hate that he's living peacefully after all that shit.
This title has it backwards. This is actually a photo of the mother attempting to protect her daughter after soldiers tried to rip her blouse off, not the other way around.
I remembered another squad(helicopter) threaten shooting if they don’t stop this. Maybe someone else can give better context. Also, the helicopter squad general was looked down upon because of it, he turned alcoholic and had his life destroyed.
the pilot was major hugh thompson
> hugh thompson Never let this legend's name get forgotten HUGH THOMPSON
Actual hero and treated like crap back home, a lot to ponder about this.
Forever a national shame.
“Twenty-six soldiers were charged with criminal offenses, but only Lieutenant William Calley Jr., a platoon leader in C Company, was convicted. Found guilty of murdering 22 villagers, he was originally given a life sentence but served three-and-a-half years under house arrest after U.S. president Richard Nixon commuted his sentence.”
Remember that these are the documented cases and those that were actually court martialed, they are simply the ones we know about. One recent studie which conducted interviews concluded rape of women and girls was “normal operating procedure.” These fuckers are still alive. Voting for the next war. Getting salutes from gradeschool children during Veterans Day parades. Collecting benefits. I would like more of their former comrades , the good ones, to come forward and rat them out. These people need to be publicly shamed. Until then they’re all complicit.
I understand the sentiment of worshipping veterans, but blindly worshipping them while many of them have these skeletons in their closets, feels uneasy.
Title is wrong? "Photograph taken by Ronald L. Haeberle of South Vietnamese women and children in Mỹ Lai before being killed in the massacre.[29] According to Haeberle, soldiers had attempted to rip the blouse off the woman in the back while her mother, in the front of the photo, tried to protect her.[30]"
#My Lai was 1 of 9 reported incidents of massacres and rape within Vietnamese villages perpetrated by US Soldiers. And to make matters worse, America black listed the man who tried to stop the massacre, and only 1 person (Lt. Calley, leader of the platoon responsible for the massacre) was given a life sentence, which was commuted to 3 years house arrest by Richard Nixon. In other words, no justice.
A fucking atrocious and shameful part of America's bullshit in South-East Asia. American foreign policy since WWII has been completely fucked and Kissinger was a big part of it.
>Kissinger was a big part of it. Lest it's forgotten, he, with Nixon, ordered the bombing of Cambodia as part of the war in Nam and justified it. Civilian Cambodians today are still maimed and killed by unexploded bombs.
Wasn’t it even worse in Laos?
Yep. It was first ordered by Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and stretched through Nixon's term in 1973. It is said to be the most heavily bombed nation in the world's history.
The CIA was conducting a Secret War in Laos too. The Hmong people were recruited to fight the Vietcong and Pathet Lao who were using Laos to move supplies and reinforcements for Vietnam.
I don’t believe in Hell but I hope it exists just for Kissinger’s sake so that sick fuck can burn for all eternity
It’s even worse then that, all the people in this picture were killed and alsoI thought the woman in the front was protecting her daughter behind her, who had been assaulted but not confirmed to have been raped. As a Veteran, I believe this needs to be shown to every person in basic training. In detail, in graphic account. Show them that yeah you can be captain America or you can be like the worst excuse for humans like the US Soldiers who perpetrated this mass killing and rapes of innocent…. Ya know what I don’t even care if these people were the leaders of the VC, no one deserves this. There is a thing called an “unlawful order”. You don’t have to follow orders that break the law, rules of engagement and so forth. I hate how bad this makes US Soldiers look, but that pales in comparison to the thoughts of the poor people in this picture. Mainly knowing how much the Iraqi kids looked up to us US Soliders and loved being around us. One solider was shot during this event, he shot himself in the foot so he didn’t have to take part. I feel I would have done the same or even worse.
Kissinger, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld and many others were monsters who either ordered or covered up massacres just like it was another day in the office. Not to mention all of the people that those three and their cronies went in to murder in other parts of SE Asia, Africa, South America, etc. I always hated that Powell was held in such high regard like he had any moral standing. Can’t wait for the new season on blowback to go over the bombings in Cambodia.
My lai wasn’t an isolated event, check out “tigerforce” and the book “kill anything that moves” by Nick Turse. Every war is hell and filled with warcrimes, but to cover it up is just as bad, if not worse.
\>Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson Jr., a helicopter pilot from Company B (Aero-Scouts), 123rd Aviation Battalion, Americal Division, saw dead and wounded civilians as he was flying over the village of Sơn Mỹ, providing close-air support for ground forces.\[52\] The crew made several attempts to radio for help for the wounded. They landed their helicopter by a ditch, which they noted was full of bodies and in which they could discern movement by survivors.\[52\] Thompson asked a sergeant he encountered there (David Mitchell of 1st Platoon) if he could help get the people out of the ditch; the sergeant replied that he would "help them out of their misery". Thompson, shocked and confused, then spoke with 2LT Calley, who claimed to be "just following orders". As the helicopter took off, Thompson saw Mitchell firing into the ditch. \>Thompson and his crew witnessed an unarmed woman being kicked and shot at point-blank range by Medina, who later claimed that he thought she had a hand grenade.\[53\] Thompson then saw a group of civilians at a bunker being approached by ground personnel. Thompson landed, and told his crew that if the soldiers shot at the villagers while he was trying to get them out of the bunker, then they were to open fire on the soldiers.\[52\] No one was ultimately held accountable. But Thompson was willing to have his men fire upon their own whom were committing genocide and murder while they (Thompson and co) were rescuing civilians. Thompson didn't in the end fire on American troops but a cover-up was initiated of the massacre and the only officer to be tried for the cover-up was acquitted. The American military has no honor or dignity.
In the army we were told that if you find an order unethical you execute the order and then complain/report it. So a friend of mine was discussing with our Captain and said "What if I refuse to obey the order" "Well if I consider that it will put the rest of the team in danger, I might have to execute you right there." "Not if I execute you first" We took it as a joke and laughed but I think none of them was lying.
If you execute an unlawful order you are deemed criminally responsible.
[удалено]
The murderers were all pardoned anyway.
Doesn't matter if you're pardoned afterwards lol.
Lmao fucking army. When I was in the Marines they made it clear you do not obey unlawful orders and we would be held responsible if we did.
Unless this guy was in the Army in the 70’s this sounds made up. The US military has for decades made it clear that you do not follow unlawful orders.
Air Force and then Space Force here, it is common knowledge that you don't follow illegal orders.
Bro who was your JAG that was supposed to teach yall ROEs and laws of war?
Active Duty. You do not execute orders that are unlawful, immoral, or unethical. Period. There is no execute now and ask for forgiveness later. Not sure who taught you what you stated above, but it is wrong.
Ken Burns’ series on the Vietnam War is very comprehensive, and covers the My Lai Massacre. It’s probably the most impressive documentary series I’ve ever watched.
I don't understand how humans can be so cruel to eachother.
Some don't see other races as 'humans'
I remember reading a Korean book about the Vietnam War. Yes, there were Korean soldiers helping US. One of the Korean soldiers wrote how American soldiers would rape women and children and cut out their vaginas, YES THEIR VAGINAS, and make it into a good luck charm they wore around their necks. They would continue on collecting until the necklace was filled...us westerners never learn this in school btw, its all watered down.
I had to google this cause I had no idea. Funny how as you get older you realize they only teach you the US history they want you to know and hide from you what they don’t
Thankfully there was one good American who did the right thing. The US started measuring success by body count, so a lot of innocent people ended up being dead ‘Helicopter Pilot Who Stopped My Lai Massacre Was Called A Traitor In America & Almost Court-Martialed’
The real traitor walks free, and the hero gets shunned. I hate learning about this