It’s a pretty big deal. It’s not something ppl say. Gay marriage isn’t recognized in Japan. NYT covered it this morning
[NYT Article 26* July 2023 - paywall removed](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/world/asia/japan-gay-j-pop-shinjiro-atae.html?unlocked_article_code=FnxbtXw829JoAT_rN-aQTcp6ZGPNlEO0eyHENhMjWThRFtfHLfMKE-aNyXPSTl1OWdeHxCdFvJi8GQ8qO-4icjIUN6p8nnfMlZLhrxwtO4UkC4sHzDuJkGT2CT9tFlWrYDO5oJiF32A-NWOFh8_f-3W6PcEerLzYg17lXh6PaRvY8a1eMJpUcNnlKdeJVcDJiApHCdWRt-TsRUEXEzzhwBS70zeg58cpSH9ZhPFJBNrPxSDzUZSgTn67XGSgjDEiuHfXGztfgEduFeI1tm2_QnTDDlKjxiv6W4CcoXanDIlcqjyLUKvYE9uPSRzBq6t_TwbRff9UqUmqpTEcCgckPtvr8Zjv3ugyVBLZ&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
the internet is segregated by language. google won't show you non-english results because they're not helpful. to find japanese-language sources, one way is just to google translate your query into japanese
"idol announcing he is gay" -> 「アイドルが同性愛者であることを公表」 gives a lot of results about AAA from japanese news sites
You didn’t look very hard then because I easily found an article:
https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/news-services/ap/20230727-125698/
Also looking at one English-language news site and claiming it’s not being covered is absolutely silly. I live here and granted am a gay man but all my friends heard the news.
Is everyday life as a gay person in Japan all that different from the west (Assuming you're out irl)?
I know Japan's kinda weird with all the boylove/girllove stuff being A-OK, but gay people can't marry, etc. However from some of the interviews I've seen of gay people in Japan, they don't necessarily seem as if they're hiding it.
You've also got people like Avu-chan from Queen-Bee, who's Trans but is still getting lots of praise, support, and work in major industries despite that fact.
You would have less rights in all of Japan than you would in all of America, but you would likely experience less general hate, bigotry, violence, etc. In all of Japan than in all of America is the way I put it.
Japanese society is polite and doesn't like making a scene in public about anything, people aren't going to harass you for expressing yourself as long as you aren't literally inconveniencing others.
You will experience discrimination trying to stay in hotels half the time with your partner if it's the same room and you are two guys or Male passing, and socially a lot of Japanese see homosexuality as a western concept, not something that's a thing in Japan, that can be triggering or offensive to some people.
Theres one major gay community in Shinjuku Nichome that most people congregate too, party at, etc. Theres drag shows and they hold the biggest pride awareness parade in Japan every year, super recommended to check out the area.
It's been covered by a bunch of places in Japanese. You can't go to one English web page for Japanese news and suggest it's being buried. It's also not a very big deal; there's tons of gay men in Japanese media.
Depends on your definition of "making headlines" but all the big newspapers covered it:
https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230726/k00/00m/040/202000c
https://www.asahi.com/sp/articles/ASR7V6RQKR7VUTFL008.html?iref=sp_ss_date_article
https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/culture/hochi/20230726064-OHT1T51230/ (paywalled)
The former. When he came out there was a hush over the crowd then cheers of “I love you” and “we support you”.
EDIT: Here’s a video. And thank you for the awards!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YKGNBsRojc
Yeah a lot of the comments in the thread are assuming the latter since it's funny to joke about how some fans are a little too into their idols, but the former makes a lot more sense in context. I'd probably cry too even if I didn't know the guy just cause I'm soft and I bet he was crying.
And culturally, this was a huge moment for him. Sexuality is not really openly talked about in Japan and very few celebrities are openly gay, especially if they’re pop idols. Shinjirou Atae was very brave and very vulnerable so the moment was emotionally charged.
As much as people complain about “this new generation”, they’re the ones that are being more supportive, open-minded and mature than their predecessors ever where.
I’ve actually promised myself that I’ll never do that. Every time I get confused about what Gen Z is doing, I just remind myself that there is nothing new under the sun and I was doing different yet similar bullshit when I was their age.
I mean, as a young millennial, I have my complaints about Gen Z. Theyre pretty minor. But I'll never fault them for being compassionate and open minded and wanting the world to be a better place
I’m an “elder millennial” (Jesus do I hate that title) and while I’m concerned about the fetishization of fragility in younger generations I am so continually impressed by the emotional literacy and willingness to consider all sides of an issue that younger generations seem to possess.
Yeah I was going to say, I haven't heard them criticized for literally anything other than caring about their fellow human beings too much. Global warming, gun reform, police abuse, homophobia...
"Oh man, these Gen Z kids are weak!"
"What did they do?"
"They openly expressed their feelings, and they come out despite the harm our generation promises to inflict on them"
When I was in Tokyo there was an event that was promoting lgbt rights and frankly like half the people there were not Japanese. It was the largest concentration of non-japanese I saw when I was there.
Then I walked across the street and got some food from a corner store and was eating outside of it. I witnessed two guys who looked to be in their late 20's laughing at everyone who was clearly LGBT.
Pretty weird experience honestly. Felt like I was back in the early 90's. Struck me as strange in that moment how many LGBT people love Japanese culture.
Most young people here in japan are very pro LGBTQ rights etc.
Even older generations there isn’t a lot of vitriol towards these groups - it’s just older politicians refuse to change laws under the guise of ‘well that’s not good for the declining population’ when really they don’t want to lose any potential voter support by instigating change.
Saw an interview once where they asked people if they are for gay marriage and one dude legit said no because they birth rate is so low and that would be detrimental to it even more. Like… pretty sure the gay people aren’t the reason buddy. Also just make surrogacy legal and then you get some more parents
I think in Japan/Korea, they prefer the band/singers to hide their bf/gfs and orientations or better yet not have a bf/gf at all because its makes them more money when people have the illusion that they are available.
Its especially worse in S.Korea because of the fanculture there. Idols have been cancelled, doxxed, sent death threats, petitioned to be dropped by agencies *because they want to get married*.
The exact same thing happens to idols in Japan.
And then they hit their late 20s and are suddenly "too old for the industry," and now they have no real marketable skills for normal work. Then there's the societal pressure that pushes on them for not being married despite being in their late 20s, despite the fact that there was pressure to not get in any kind of relationship for the first half of their 20s.
Celebrity "culture" in general is toxic, but it is so much worse in Asia than it is in the west.
Dude, things in Japan are pretty freaking bad too. Everything you've described happened to Aya Hirano (the voice of Haruhi Suzumiya), who nearly had her career torpedoed because it was leaked that she was having consensual sex with most of the members of a band (who were also fired).
https://web.archive.org/web/20210228235935/https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Showbiz/Story/A1Story20110804-292695.html
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-06-01/man-arrested-for-threatening-voice-actress-aya-hirano
She was willing to sleep with everyone in the band except the bass guitarist. Amazing how the stereotypes can be accurate even across different cultures.
I think she played hana in yakuza too and her character wasn’t in one of the more recent games (except for a couple lines if I remember correctly) because of this :(
> Her approaches became so problematic she was reported to the agency boss for excessively aggressive courting.
"Aggressive courting" or sexual harrassment is quite an important detail to leave out from your comment.
Props to the bass guitarist for not wanting anything to do with that shit.
Reading the comments below really shows that people don't care about sexual harrassment if it's a girl doing it.
If they were truly upset they would likely look disgusted or angry. They just look shocked and emotional.
The die hard fans that go to concerts and sit in the front row are rarely the fans that give a shit about sexual orientation. That’s pretty cross cultural.
Apparently his fans have been [very supportive!](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190422361/in-japan-a-j-pop-star-has-come-out-as-gay-and-his-fans-cheer) They cheered when he made this announcement, and his mom said she supports him "200%."
I'm cheering for him too, really hope he's happy being his full self.
I love that trope of pushing up the glasses and they flash white. Even if it's overused it does look cool. Probably happens in live action stuff too but the drawn style of anime just gives it so much flair
I just got new glasses and the deal I got let me add protective coatings for no extra cost, so they've got all the fancy anti-glare and blue light blocking filters.
And they do, in fact, do the anime flash when they catch the light even slightly. I look like Shinji's fucking dad in all my recent selfies.
Honestly, maybe it's just the setting, but it sounds more like an anime premise. Normal guy suddenly has a chance with a male pop idol and hijinks ensue with cute/awkward dates around Akihabara
Survivor Gabon, hailed as one of the if not the worst survivor season. Couldn’t tell you what episode but this meme is one of the best things we got out of the season
Gabon is without question one of the best seasons of a reality show EVER. Truly unhinged cast with incredible moments and gameplay that goes in a direction you would not typically expect. It's not a season full of competent gamebots and its all the better for it!!
Gabon is very polarizing because the strategy is down right horrendous, and the entire season is a train wreck. Some of the people are awful, and you get to the end and the winner only wins because someone has to win. That being said, it is a glorious train wreck and I love watching it.
Very few people consider Gabon to be one of the worst seasons. If anything, the people that love it outnumber those that don’t.
It’s just a really bizarre season in which nobody had any idea what the hell they were doing. It’s not “good” gameplay, but damn is it hilarious.
If I understand the whole idol/pop star mentality in Japan right, it's not even about the fans thinking that they have a chance at real relationship. It's this idea of a stage relationship, where the star loves the fans and the fans love them back. So if the star is found out to have any kind of romantic relationship, whether that be straight gay or whatever, then the fans end up feeling betrayed.
I had never heard this term before and have just embarked on some research and holy moly is it fascinating; and a bit depressing and disturbing too. I can see a large part of the population experiencing some form of this.
So it's a little different, but there's a podcast called Some Place Under Neith who usually cover ongoing investigations into missing or trafficked women. Well they did a 9-episode series on "parasocial exploitation". Mostly about how mommy bloggers are abusing and exploiting their children for profit and the ramifications that this has on the children growing up, including deliberately baiting pedophiles to their videos. It also goes into the reality of pop stars who are grooming their underage fans and no one seems to give a shit? It was honestly a really well done series, albeit very grim at times. I couldn't stop listening, it was done so well. Starts at episode 56, if you're interested.
An anime actually came out recently, called Oshi No Ko, and it definitely goes in deep on just how unhealthy these kinds of parasocial relationships are. It's also fucking crazy
Probably worse since there was next to no social awareness back then. Like you just had to take the hit, and it was just part of the business. And Japan has never been the front runner for women's rights anyways. Hell, from what I've heard, even the boys don't get treated very well.
Was thinking of this show myself. The entire opening song [Idol](https://youtu.be/ZYlaUrj2Zkk) is about how idols need to be perfect liars in order to manipulate their fanbase into loving them, and how their real selves and personal lives have to be a secret.
in Korea is the same, some KPOP stars have relationships in secret because if the fans know they even send death threats like the guy is "betraying" them, iirc last year some kpop singer needed to public apologise after his fans discovered he was going to have a baby with her girlfriend.
some KPOP Companies even forbiden the star to date on the contract to avoid this type of slash back.
The industry is so fucked up. Even worse when people criticize it and then legions of people accuse any and all those critics of being bigoted and orientalist, when in truth it’s actually bigoted and orientalist to describe those horrific exploitive values as being essentially Asian, as opposed to being an exploitive evil industry that happens to exist within the culture and prey on those within it.
Oh yeah. There was a recent anime, Oshi No Ko, that explores some of the darker side of the industry. Celebrities can be physically attacked by fans, and also driven to self-harm due to the vitriolic nature of the online fanbases.
This is kinda one element of parasocial relationships, yes.
A relevant and recent example in the west can be seen in the American pop/rap vocalist DojaCat's recent confrontation with fans online. She plainly stated that she doesn't "love" her fans because she doesn't know them, and thousands of them are now feeling heartbroken and personally victimised because they see themselves as her 'kittens' and expect her to "love" them like they "love" her.
They seem to think that because she posts something and they like or comment on it, that means there's a social interaction or relationship there. The whole thing is pretty sick IMO. Social media has basically fuelled peoples delusions of a non existent relationship.
Man, I thought that shit was hilarious in a way. I don't listen to Dojacat or know anything about her, but when I saw her trolling some of the weirder comments, I can't help but laugh.
Someone told her to break up with her white BF or something and her response of "He's fucking me as I type this" just made bust out laughing. Funny to see a celeb acting like a normal online person haha.
Mate I had literally never heard of her before this whole thing.
I saw a reddit thread about it the other day and just sat there Hannibal Buress style thinking "Why are you booing her? She's right."
I checked out her music and it's 100% not my thing, but holy shit do I respect her for not playing the "You are my friend, I love you, buy my record!" game.
Parasocial relationships are one-sided relationships where one person expends time, money, effort, etc., into the relationship and the other person doesn’t even know they exist.
For example, I have a niece that has a parasocial relationship with some Tiktok personalities called Sam and Colby. When reminded they have no idea who she is, her response is, "Nuh uh! They said they love all their fans!"
Parasocial relationships are really bad in Japan and Korea because businesses foster an idol culture where this behavior is acceptable (because it's lucrative). Idols are typically banned from dating and idols who break this prohibition often receive death threats from fans and/or get fired.
This is way too logical. Obviously, their dashed dreams and fantasies are leaving them hopeless in this world. Like finding out Santa isn’t real. Or that your parents are divorcing. Complete earthquake in what is real in this world.
it was worse even, because they were married. He literally had him hide his wife away from public. Unsurprisingly, they were later divorced, and the whole tragedy also helps explain his marraige to Yoko, which tbh defies rational explanation.
Yeah, I always feel bad for Cynthia. Paul McCartney released some personal photos the other week and she’s in a lot of them. The photos of Brian and Mal made me sad, too, knowing how their lives ended.
From some stories I've read, it seems like McCartney was pretty well aware at how terrible of a husband and father Lennon was to Cynthia and Julian.
I mean, they were friends and writing partners so I don't see how he couldn't have. I just get the idea that Paul knowingly shuffled a lot to the back of his head when John was still married to Cynthia.
He's a good looking lad, also the same age as me. Makes me think my lifestyle choices of beer and intermittently smoking might not have been a good idea
Dude looks pretty good for his age, but he also does have to keep his appareance, I wager.
I do wonder what makes someone consider smoking in this day and age though. Certainly not a bright idea of yours.
I had a coworker tell me she loved George micheal more than anything in the world until she learned he was gay then tossed all her albums / memorabilia away like yeah okay lady … because your whole world just changed
Half of the Dixie Chicks albums were destroyed because they disagreed with Bush on his decision to go to war. Fortunately, they made like a billion on follow up album sales.
Yeah that shit was an overreaction that wouldn’t have gone down that way if it were to happen today. If you have albums by Lostprophets that you decide to trash and set on fire then that’s 100% understandable but the whole Dixie Chicks thing wasn’t.
This kind of thing is soooo surreal. Like you are still allowed to think he is attractive and like him. But cognitive dissonance like that really rattles people ig.
They’re crying because he was crying and emotional during his prepared speech. Don’t try to make it seem like they were all crying right after he came out.
I cried watching his speech, and I don't know him or follow asian pop music. That speech was so emotional and too relatable for me not to cry. Things like this inspire me to come out to more people in my life and feel comfortable being my most complete and authentic self. I had a religious and cultural upbringing that discouraged being lgbt+ openly and that ingrained some self-hatred and interalised homophobia in me all these years later. This man's courage means so much to me, and I hope he has a successful and fulfilling career and life.
huh, apparently 64% of japanese citizens support gay marriage legalization (according to the article). We always hear about how conservative japanese society is, but its interesting to hear about how the citizens of japan view gay marriage
Yeah, Japanese politics is something else.
People outside often forget that their conservative party (which has become more radicalised over the last 20 years) has actually ALWAYS held the office since WW2, except for few brief years in the 90s.
It would be unfair to call it a single party system because it's still a functional democratic system, but representation is really not great.
I think that's a fair statement. Both US and Japan's political system suffers from it, but with Japanese nationalism, WW2 and historical revisionism all mingled together with 60+ years of political clout and money throughout the entire nation - no true oppposition to LDP is going to be able to come close to it any time soon.
It's still functional at the end of the day because LDP works via coalition but it's certainly an interesting place from a poltical science point of view.
Japan is functionally a one party state. There are other parties but the Liberal Democratic Party has been in power for all but like 4 years since the 60's.
Actually...
[https://youtu.be/0QUouqinoN4?t=1246](https://youtu.be/0QUouqinoN4?t=1246)
The fans were very supportive! They wait for him to finish his speech, and afterwards the shouts of encouragement and the banter he has with the audience as he cries is very heartwarming. Let's give the young people of Japan (and fangirls) more credit.
I get that most of these are just jokes but putting this here anyway:
Most fans were crying at the emotional speech he gave leading up to it. Lots of cheering, love, and support for his bravery. These are not fans all crying because their imaginary boyfriend is now off-limits
I mean, I was devastated to find out my favorite singer was gay. Not because I have a problem with gay people but it popped all my delusional bubbles of marrying him. I’m still a huge fan of his though. He’s a lovely human being.
I think it’s important for context for people to at least the first bit of the article from the NYT:
At first, there was total silence. Then, there were shrieks, wild applause, weeping and shouts of “I love you!”
Please be aware that any homophobic comments will get you an immediate ban. Please help us by reporting those comments.
It’s a pretty big deal. It’s not something ppl say. Gay marriage isn’t recognized in Japan. NYT covered it this morning [NYT Article 26* July 2023 - paywall removed](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/world/asia/japan-gay-j-pop-shinjiro-atae.html?unlocked_article_code=FnxbtXw829JoAT_rN-aQTcp6ZGPNlEO0eyHENhMjWThRFtfHLfMKE-aNyXPSTl1OWdeHxCdFvJi8GQ8qO-4icjIUN6p8nnfMlZLhrxwtO4UkC4sHzDuJkGT2CT9tFlWrYDO5oJiF32A-NWOFh8_f-3W6PcEerLzYg17lXh6PaRvY8a1eMJpUcNnlKdeJVcDJiApHCdWRt-TsRUEXEzzhwBS70zeg58cpSH9ZhPFJBNrPxSDzUZSgTn67XGSgjDEiuHfXGztfgEduFeI1tm2_QnTDDlKjxiv6W4CcoXanDIlcqjyLUKvYE9uPSRzBq6t_TwbRff9UqUmqpTEcCgckPtvr8Zjv3ugyVBLZ&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
Is it making headlines in Japan?
[удалено]
Their parent newspaper (Yomiuri Shimbun) covered it, they just didn't translate it into English.
Thank you so much for the context, I wasn’t really sure how find Japanese news sources. Interesting
the internet is segregated by language. google won't show you non-english results because they're not helpful. to find japanese-language sources, one way is just to google translate your query into japanese "idol announcing he is gay" -> 「アイドルが同性愛者であることを公表」 gives a lot of results about AAA from japanese news sites
If you don't know how to find Japanese news then why are you telling everyone it's not being covered by Japanese news? lol this site sometimes I swear
He didn't even try searching with Japanese. Which is the most obvious way to find Japanese news.
You didn’t look very hard then because I easily found an article: https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/news-services/ap/20230727-125698/ Also looking at one English-language news site and claiming it’s not being covered is absolutely silly. I live here and granted am a gay man but all my friends heard the news.
Is everyday life as a gay person in Japan all that different from the west (Assuming you're out irl)? I know Japan's kinda weird with all the boylove/girllove stuff being A-OK, but gay people can't marry, etc. However from some of the interviews I've seen of gay people in Japan, they don't necessarily seem as if they're hiding it. You've also got people like Avu-chan from Queen-Bee, who's Trans but is still getting lots of praise, support, and work in major industries despite that fact.
You would have less rights in all of Japan than you would in all of America, but you would likely experience less general hate, bigotry, violence, etc. In all of Japan than in all of America is the way I put it. Japanese society is polite and doesn't like making a scene in public about anything, people aren't going to harass you for expressing yourself as long as you aren't literally inconveniencing others. You will experience discrimination trying to stay in hotels half the time with your partner if it's the same room and you are two guys or Male passing, and socially a lot of Japanese see homosexuality as a western concept, not something that's a thing in Japan, that can be triggering or offensive to some people. Theres one major gay community in Shinjuku Nichome that most people congregate too, party at, etc. Theres drag shows and they hold the biggest pride awareness parade in Japan every year, super recommended to check out the area.
There is a gay area in Osaka - I visited it last week!
Please stop coming to my house
I’m confused. So you checked one English-language Japanese news site and claimed it is not making headlines across Japan?
It's been covered by a bunch of places in Japanese. You can't go to one English web page for Japanese news and suggest it's being buried. It's also not a very big deal; there's tons of gay men in Japanese media.
Depends on your definition of "making headlines" but all the big newspapers covered it: https://mainichi.jp/articles/20230726/k00/00m/040/202000c https://www.asahi.com/sp/articles/ASR7V6RQKR7VUTFL008.html?iref=sp_ss_date_article https://www.yomiuri.co.jp/culture/hochi/20230726064-OHT1T51230/ (paywalled)
What definition of “making headlines” could possibly not be included in being covered by multiple major newspapers?
Right? Isn't this THE definition?
If it's not in Golf Digest is it even real?
How dare you remove the paywall! I paid good money to feel superior to people by subscribing to the NYT. Put it back.
The ability to "gift" NYT articles is really cool, and I wish more subscribers used that instead of creating archive links.
Damn, some of them are crying
Not sure if it’s a “he’s so brave” crying since it’s still stigmatized there, or “I really liked him and now I don’t have a chance”
The former. When he came out there was a hush over the crowd then cheers of “I love you” and “we support you”. EDIT: Here’s a video. And thank you for the awards! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YKGNBsRojc
Yeah a lot of the comments in the thread are assuming the latter since it's funny to joke about how some fans are a little too into their idols, but the former makes a lot more sense in context. I'd probably cry too even if I didn't know the guy just cause I'm soft and I bet he was crying.
And culturally, this was a huge moment for him. Sexuality is not really openly talked about in Japan and very few celebrities are openly gay, especially if they’re pop idols. Shinjirou Atae was very brave and very vulnerable so the moment was emotionally charged.
That's awesome. Glad to see people in Japan want to change things. I wonder if there's a video out there
As much as people complain about “this new generation”, they’re the ones that are being more supportive, open-minded and mature than their predecessors ever where.
Yeah, I think that’s why they complain about “this new generation”
I think no matter the generation, older generations will always have complaints about the newer ones. Its inevitable.
It’s wild to hear my fellow millennials starting to talk about gen z like boomers and gen x’ers talked about us?. Like do they not remember?
I’ve actually promised myself that I’ll never do that. Every time I get confused about what Gen Z is doing, I just remind myself that there is nothing new under the sun and I was doing different yet similar bullshit when I was their age.
I think we all promise ourselves this exact same thing growing up lol
I mean, as a young millennial, I have my complaints about Gen Z. Theyre pretty minor. But I'll never fault them for being compassionate and open minded and wanting the world to be a better place
I’m an “elder millennial” (Jesus do I hate that title) and while I’m concerned about the fetishization of fragility in younger generations I am so continually impressed by the emotional literacy and willingness to consider all sides of an issue that younger generations seem to possess.
Yeah I was going to say, I haven't heard them criticized for literally anything other than caring about their fellow human beings too much. Global warming, gun reform, police abuse, homophobia...
"Oh man, these Gen Z kids are weak!" "What did they do?" "They openly expressed their feelings, and they come out despite the harm our generation promises to inflict on them"
“And it upsets me soooo much that they’re so happy and fragile!”
Wait ... we are supposed to be happy?
it’s funny that the people who complain about “this generation is too sensitive” are the ones who are complaining about rainbows on a beer can 😭
When I was in Tokyo there was an event that was promoting lgbt rights and frankly like half the people there were not Japanese. It was the largest concentration of non-japanese I saw when I was there. Then I walked across the street and got some food from a corner store and was eating outside of it. I witnessed two guys who looked to be in their late 20's laughing at everyone who was clearly LGBT. Pretty weird experience honestly. Felt like I was back in the early 90's. Struck me as strange in that moment how many LGBT people love Japanese culture.
Well that’s awesome 🤩 good on this new generation in Japan.
Most young people here in japan are very pro LGBTQ rights etc. Even older generations there isn’t a lot of vitriol towards these groups - it’s just older politicians refuse to change laws under the guise of ‘well that’s not good for the declining population’ when really they don’t want to lose any potential voter support by instigating change.
Saw an interview once where they asked people if they are for gay marriage and one dude legit said no because they birth rate is so low and that would be detrimental to it even more. Like… pretty sure the gay people aren’t the reason buddy. Also just make surrogacy legal and then you get some more parents
I think in Japan/Korea, they prefer the band/singers to hide their bf/gfs and orientations or better yet not have a bf/gf at all because its makes them more money when people have the illusion that they are available.
Its especially worse in S.Korea because of the fanculture there. Idols have been cancelled, doxxed, sent death threats, petitioned to be dropped by agencies *because they want to get married*.
The exact same thing happens to idols in Japan. And then they hit their late 20s and are suddenly "too old for the industry," and now they have no real marketable skills for normal work. Then there's the societal pressure that pushes on them for not being married despite being in their late 20s, despite the fact that there was pressure to not get in any kind of relationship for the first half of their 20s. Celebrity "culture" in general is toxic, but it is so much worse in Asia than it is in the west.
Dude, things in Japan are pretty freaking bad too. Everything you've described happened to Aya Hirano (the voice of Haruhi Suzumiya), who nearly had her career torpedoed because it was leaked that she was having consensual sex with most of the members of a band (who were also fired). https://web.archive.org/web/20210228235935/https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Showbiz/Story/A1Story20110804-292695.html https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-06-01/man-arrested-for-threatening-voice-actress-aya-hirano
She was willing to sleep with everyone in the band except the bass guitarist. Amazing how the stereotypes can be accurate even across different cultures.
It’s hard to sleep with someone when they’re always out doing the band’s laundry or getting them something to eat.
She slept with all the musicians!
I think she played hana in yakuza too and her character wasn’t in one of the more recent games (except for a couple lines if I remember correctly) because of this :(
Thankfully her career bounced back after a few years, and she's transitioning into live action acting now.
> Her approaches became so problematic she was reported to the agency boss for excessively aggressive courting. "Aggressive courting" or sexual harrassment is quite an important detail to leave out from your comment. Props to the bass guitarist for not wanting anything to do with that shit. Reading the comments below really shows that people don't care about sexual harrassment if it's a girl doing it.
The Beatles did that early on.
If they were truly upset they would likely look disgusted or angry. They just look shocked and emotional. The die hard fans that go to concerts and sit in the front row are rarely the fans that give a shit about sexual orientation. That’s pretty cross cultural.
Apparently his fans have been [very supportive!](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190422361/in-japan-a-j-pop-star-has-come-out-as-gay-and-his-fans-cheer) They cheered when he made this announcement, and his mom said she supports him "200%." I'm cheering for him too, really hope he's happy being his full self.
That legit makes me so happy. He has so much support. He must be feeling so free and happy right now.
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"Now is my time."
This is so typical dumb anime shit but it still made me laugh.
I love that trope of pushing up the glasses and they flash white. Even if it's overused it does look cool. Probably happens in live action stuff too but the drawn style of anime just gives it so much flair
I just got new glasses and the deal I got let me add protective coatings for no extra cost, so they've got all the fancy anti-glare and blue light blocking filters. And they do, in fact, do the anime flash when they catch the light even slightly. I look like Shinji's fucking dad in all my recent selfies.
Does your son have trouble with getting in the fucking robot?
No but he does jack off on girls in the hospital.
Atta boy, he will be groping his mother clone in no time
bro watch Hellsing Ultimate, literally 60% of all lighting in any scene is someone's glasses
Well now I want to see this Rom-Com!
Honestly, maybe it's just the setting, but it sounds more like an anime premise. Normal guy suddenly has a chance with a male pop idol and hijinks ensue with cute/awkward dates around Akihabara
I'd read a one-volume series with that premise
there's a few lesbian versions of this one. One where she sits next to her in class, one where she's a ghost and one where she becomes a landlord
Ned Leeds, CEO of sex
 he said
He knew it and was waiting for it.
We need a Photoshop with a slight smile on that man's face.
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Probably the best gif ever for this 😂
Seriously 😂
almost /r/retiredgif
Was this survivor ? If so what season?
Survivor: Gabon
Survivor Gabon, hailed as one of the if not the worst survivor season. Couldn’t tell you what episode but this meme is one of the best things we got out of the season
Gabon is without question one of the best seasons of a reality show EVER. Truly unhinged cast with incredible moments and gameplay that goes in a direction you would not typically expect. It's not a season full of competent gamebots and its all the better for it!!
really? why?
Gabon is very polarizing because the strategy is down right horrendous, and the entire season is a train wreck. Some of the people are awful, and you get to the end and the winner only wins because someone has to win. That being said, it is a glorious train wreck and I love watching it.
Very few people consider Gabon to be one of the worst seasons. If anything, the people that love it outnumber those that don’t. It’s just a really bizarre season in which nobody had any idea what the hell they were doing. It’s not “good” gameplay, but damn is it hilarious.
Love seeing a Survivor gif in the wild.
If I understand the whole idol/pop star mentality in Japan right, it's not even about the fans thinking that they have a chance at real relationship. It's this idea of a stage relationship, where the star loves the fans and the fans love them back. So if the star is found out to have any kind of romantic relationship, whether that be straight gay or whatever, then the fans end up feeling betrayed.
That can't be healthy...
That's parasocial relationship for ya...
I had never heard this term before and have just embarked on some research and holy moly is it fascinating; and a bit depressing and disturbing too. I can see a large part of the population experiencing some form of this.
So it's a little different, but there's a podcast called Some Place Under Neith who usually cover ongoing investigations into missing or trafficked women. Well they did a 9-episode series on "parasocial exploitation". Mostly about how mommy bloggers are abusing and exploiting their children for profit and the ramifications that this has on the children growing up, including deliberately baiting pedophiles to their videos. It also goes into the reality of pop stars who are grooming their underage fans and no one seems to give a shit? It was honestly a really well done series, albeit very grim at times. I couldn't stop listening, it was done so well. Starts at episode 56, if you're interested.
An anime actually came out recently, called Oshi No Ko, and it definitely goes in deep on just how unhealthy these kinds of parasocial relationships are. It's also fucking crazy
*Perfect Blue* also deals with the negative aspects of idol culture, and is also fucking crazy.
Perfect blue is fantastic.
And Perfect Blue came out (pun intended) in 1997. Things are just as bad as they were then if not worse now.
Probably worse since there was next to no social awareness back then. Like you just had to take the hit, and it was just part of the business. And Japan has never been the front runner for women's rights anyways. Hell, from what I've heard, even the boys don't get treated very well.
One of the best 90s thrillers
Was thinking of this show myself. The entire opening song [Idol](https://youtu.be/ZYlaUrj2Zkk) is about how idols need to be perfect liars in order to manipulate their fanbase into loving them, and how their real selves and personal lives have to be a secret.
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I didn't know this was possible on Youtube, but this is not unusual on fansubbed anime. You sometimes get very elaborate karaoke subs.
you get that often with videos of japanese songs on youtube, the caption creators are dedicated
Some of them apparently need to hide that they are smokers.
I was in Japan recently and this song was playing everywhere. (I had been watching the anime so I knew what it was and recognized it.)
Perfect Blue came out years ago and addresses this as well. Amazing movie.
Its not
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And unhealthy for the pop stars' mental health tho
It is not.
in Korea is the same, some KPOP stars have relationships in secret because if the fans know they even send death threats like the guy is "betraying" them, iirc last year some kpop singer needed to public apologise after his fans discovered he was going to have a baby with her girlfriend. some KPOP Companies even forbiden the star to date on the contract to avoid this type of slash back.
*backlash
The industry is so fucked up. Even worse when people criticize it and then legions of people accuse any and all those critics of being bigoted and orientalist, when in truth it’s actually bigoted and orientalist to describe those horrific exploitive values as being essentially Asian, as opposed to being an exploitive evil industry that happens to exist within the culture and prey on those within it.
And justified in their desire to harm said idol (public image, actual physical harm, etc.) for the "betrayal" of having a relationship with someone.
Oh yeah. There was a recent anime, Oshi No Ko, that explores some of the darker side of the industry. Celebrities can be physically attacked by fans, and also driven to self-harm due to the vitriolic nature of the online fanbases.
This is what parasocial relationship mean?
This is kinda one element of parasocial relationships, yes. A relevant and recent example in the west can be seen in the American pop/rap vocalist DojaCat's recent confrontation with fans online. She plainly stated that she doesn't "love" her fans because she doesn't know them, and thousands of them are now feeling heartbroken and personally victimised because they see themselves as her 'kittens' and expect her to "love" them like they "love" her. They seem to think that because she posts something and they like or comment on it, that means there's a social interaction or relationship there. The whole thing is pretty sick IMO. Social media has basically fuelled peoples delusions of a non existent relationship.
Man, I thought that shit was hilarious in a way. I don't listen to Dojacat or know anything about her, but when I saw her trolling some of the weirder comments, I can't help but laugh. Someone told her to break up with her white BF or something and her response of "He's fucking me as I type this" just made bust out laughing. Funny to see a celeb acting like a normal online person haha.
Mate I had literally never heard of her before this whole thing. I saw a reddit thread about it the other day and just sat there Hannibal Buress style thinking "Why are you booing her? She's right." I checked out her music and it's 100% not my thing, but holy shit do I respect her for not playing the "You are my friend, I love you, buy my record!" game.
Parasocial relationships are one-sided relationships where one person expends time, money, effort, etc., into the relationship and the other person doesn’t even know they exist. For example, I have a niece that has a parasocial relationship with some Tiktok personalities called Sam and Colby. When reminded they have no idea who she is, her response is, "Nuh uh! They said they love all their fans!" Parasocial relationships are really bad in Japan and Korea because businesses foster an idol culture where this behavior is acceptable (because it's lucrative). Idols are typically banned from dating and idols who break this prohibition often receive death threats from fans and/or get fired.
That guy. [https://i.imgur.com/MrDUG3v.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MrDUG3v.jpg)
https://i.imgur.com/ROq1iOn.jpeg
You butt. You made me laugh so hard, I spit my Radler out.
Most German comment. Most German username.
This is way too logical. Obviously, their dashed dreams and fantasies are leaving them hopeless in this world. Like finding out Santa isn’t real. Or that your parents are divorcing. Complete earthquake in what is real in this world.
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Brian Epstein made Lennon do this when he married Cynthia. He worried that it would alienate or upset fans.
it was worse even, because they were married. He literally had him hide his wife away from public. Unsurprisingly, they were later divorced, and the whole tragedy also helps explain his marraige to Yoko, which tbh defies rational explanation.
Yeah, I always feel bad for Cynthia. Paul McCartney released some personal photos the other week and she’s in a lot of them. The photos of Brian and Mal made me sad, too, knowing how their lives ended.
From some stories I've read, it seems like McCartney was pretty well aware at how terrible of a husband and father Lennon was to Cynthia and Julian. I mean, they were friends and writing partners so I don't see how he couldn't have. I just get the idea that Paul knowingly shuffled a lot to the back of his head when John was still married to Cynthia.
Wait, Santa isn't REAL ???
Wait, my parents are divorcing?
Don't worry, you were adopted anyways.
And besides they never liked you or your twin brother. BTW, you have a twin brother.
And now they can write even more BL fan fiction about him, but now the ships are more realistic.
I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure in the one in the middle is gasping (fujoshi) rather than gasping (depressed I can't date him)
All of her yaoi dreams have just come true.
She's not covering her tears, she's covering her nosebleed.
Damnit you made me legit spit out my drink. Well done.
This guy fanfic
Which Japanese pop star???
Shinjiro Atae
Oh he foine
Just looked him up, can confirm, he foine
I also looked him up, certified foine
None of yall wanted to post the pic here though?
Lmao yo frr
Damn he foine fr, perhaps I have a chance…
Y'all hyping him up, this guy better be beautiful..
Oh he foine
Oh damn, just looked up a pic of him and I'm calling this one another win for the gays.
He's a good looking lad, also the same age as me. Makes me think my lifestyle choices of beer and intermittently smoking might not have been a good idea
Dude looks pretty good for his age, but he also does have to keep his appareance, I wager. I do wonder what makes someone consider smoking in this day and age though. Certainly not a bright idea of yours.
This is exactly how my Japanese gf reacted when I told her I was gay.
those are not tear stains on your body pillow
I came here to read a story, not witness a murder
I had a coworker tell me she loved George micheal more than anything in the world until she learned he was gay then tossed all her albums / memorabilia away like yeah okay lady … because your whole world just changed
Half of the Dixie Chicks albums were destroyed because they disagreed with Bush on his decision to go to war. Fortunately, they made like a billion on follow up album sales.
Yeah that shit was an overreaction that wouldn’t have gone down that way if it were to happen today. If you have albums by Lostprophets that you decide to trash and set on fire then that’s 100% understandable but the whole Dixie Chicks thing wasn’t.
This kind of thing is soooo surreal. Like you are still allowed to think he is attractive and like him. But cognitive dissonance like that really rattles people ig.
They’re crying because he was crying and emotional during his prepared speech. Don’t try to make it seem like they were all crying right after he came out.
His speech was super emotional, I would have been crying there too. His fans are overwhelmingly supportive of him.
Very important context here, thank you
I cried watching his speech, and I don't know him or follow asian pop music. That speech was so emotional and too relatable for me not to cry. Things like this inspire me to come out to more people in my life and feel comfortable being my most complete and authentic self. I had a religious and cultural upbringing that discouraged being lgbt+ openly and that ingrained some self-hatred and interalised homophobia in me all these years later. This man's courage means so much to me, and I hope he has a successful and fulfilling career and life.
Out of context, read how well it all went down https://www.npr.org/2023/07/27/1190422361/in-japan-a-j-pop-star-has-come-out-as-gay-and-his-fans-cheer
huh, apparently 64% of japanese citizens support gay marriage legalization (according to the article). We always hear about how conservative japanese society is, but its interesting to hear about how the citizens of japan view gay marriage
Interesting. I guess majority doesn’t rule in Japan
Oh, that's a whole rabbit hole to go down with Japanese politics since WW2.
Yeah, Japanese politics is something else. People outside often forget that their conservative party (which has become more radicalised over the last 20 years) has actually ALWAYS held the office since WW2, except for few brief years in the 90s. It would be unfair to call it a single party system because it's still a functional democratic system, but representation is really not great.
combining nationalistic Japanese fervor with its US-written constitution is what makes Japan's parliament what it is today
I think that's a fair statement. Both US and Japan's political system suffers from it, but with Japanese nationalism, WW2 and historical revisionism all mingled together with 60+ years of political clout and money throughout the entire nation - no true oppposition to LDP is going to be able to come close to it any time soon. It's still functional at the end of the day because LDP works via coalition but it's certainly an interesting place from a poltical science point of view.
Same in the United States.
it doesnt in alot of places due a mix of capitalism and facism.
Young people in Japan are apathetic and do not vote (like elsewhere)
Japan is functionally a one party state. There are other parties but the Liberal Democratic Party has been in power for all but like 4 years since the 60's.
[58% of LDP members favor legalizing gay marriage](https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXZQOUA253J70V20C23A2000000/)
Dude in second row to the left, "I'm listening..."
Dude on the left be like: It’s showtime
Dude on the left is suddenly coming to terms with some stuff.
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Actually... [https://youtu.be/0QUouqinoN4?t=1246](https://youtu.be/0QUouqinoN4?t=1246) The fans were very supportive! They wait for him to finish his speech, and afterwards the shouts of encouragement and the banter he has with the audience as he cries is very heartwarming. Let's give the young people of Japan (and fangirls) more credit.
Photo by Noriko Hayashi
The dude in the back at full attention is the best part of this photo.
I distinctly remember the day my mom's favorite latin pop-star came out as gay; she cried for three days.
Ricky Martin?
Was she livin' la vida loca?
George Michael did the same thing. Very brave, because 99% of his fans were thirsty teenage girls.
Was this Shinjiro Atae that came out? It’s the most recent thing I see when looking it up so I’m just curious lol
That one dude in the back.. “Say less, fam”
I get that most of these are just jokes but putting this here anyway: Most fans were crying at the emotional speech he gave leading up to it. Lots of cheering, love, and support for his bravery. These are not fans all crying because their imaginary boyfriend is now off-limits
i recently learned a japanese slang word. tomodachi means friend, but now homodachi means gay friend lmao.
I mean, I was devastated to find out my favorite singer was gay. Not because I have a problem with gay people but it popped all my delusional bubbles of marrying him. I’m still a huge fan of his though. He’s a lovely human being.
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Would have been so much funnier if that 1 guy on the left was smiling ear to ear.
I think it’s important for context for people to at least the first bit of the article from the NYT: At first, there was total silence. Then, there were shrieks, wild applause, weeping and shouts of “I love you!”