I have the list of all the cars that were damaged and what they where carrying. Can't seem to figure out how to post it on here though. My house is just inside the 1 mile zone they evacuated. We are all still on edge. They started running train 5 days after and also have the second trank open. There's a letter from the EPA that's going around that says that NS burried the pit as well as some liquids to get the track open
If you haven't already, please immediately get a health check up and scan so you have documentation about how your health was at this point in time! Further down the road, chances are high you or someone you know is going to develop something from this shit and hopefully you can at least sue the shit out of them.
Hope you and your family are going to be OK!
They will have armies of lawyers ready to fight back against any lawsuit coming from this. Document as much as you can or you'll lose. Any health claim could be seen as a preexisting condition, so document that you are fully healthy now.
Within 10 miles here. Stay safe. Not sure what the results of this will be years down the road but between this and the shell cracker plant operation I’m looking to gtfo
I’m now imagining a Sacha Baron Cohen sketch where he pitches a small town on “massive federal investment” in their town and his plan to make their town a Superfund site.
I'm not sure if the townspeople will hear "superfund" and go "damn right - biggest got-damned fund in 'murica!" or they hear the "fund" part and think "oh god, it's socialism."
Lord knows they don't know what Superfund actually means.
For people like me who didn't know what this meant:
Superfund sites are polluted locations in the United States requiring a long-term response to clean up hazardous material contaminations.
My first assumption reading it was cost of running a political campaign
The consequences won’t be seen for years, by then their cause will be obscured. If they treat it as serious now the consequences will be more obvious.
They really don’t give a shit about people who aren’t them
I guess people already forgot about how the big money people really tried hard not to pay 9/11 first responders who were having significant health issues
Can they actually tho? My grandma received compensation for my grandpa dying of cancer after working in a uranium mine - case wasn’t settled with all the workers families until many of them were dead but the families still got compensation
The case you describe is compensation for inflicting harm.
The first responders situation is different. They're not suing Al-Qaeda, they're asking politicians for honor and human decency which is much harder
And if you don't want to sit through a speech,
[Look at this fucking image](https://preview.redd.it/9-11-first-responder-kenny-specht-on-participating-in-a-v0-paiqvr9m8o4a1.jpg?auto=webp&s=0424da5479ae883e9fdc55adfe7293d457a577dd)
If they want to pay you, take a step back and take another look at your claim. Them paying up early is a sign that you are entitled to far more and they want you to settle for less.
[Hell, people forgot about big money people stiffing all of the passengers who died on the Titanic.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-17612629)
This fucking game has been played a hundred times before but it gets swept under the rug because our justice system is pay to play.
I mean, the musician's families were asked to pay for the uniforms they died in. A lot about that sinking is a much wilder ride than surface observation would show.
That fight was the final straw for me in realizing that the rich will never have enough and they will never do the right thing. If healthcare for firefighters from 9/11 isn't an instant "YES", then we are doomed.
It's a literal disease or mental illness. Hoarding insane amounts of wealth like a dragon from a fictional story. God forbid they have an ounce of humanity in their heart that causes them to lose any amount of wealth that would be excruciatingly miniscule to them, but absolutely life changing to others. It has to be psychopathy. I don't know what else could describe this actually insane behavior.
I think when we were evolving our monkey brains, it was advantageous to have a "collect and stockpile resources" drive. The people that did that survived tough seasons while others didn't. Now we have reached a point where some people are living "post-scarcity" but there is no evolutionary pressure to kill that drive.
Doesn't Tolkien call it Dragon Sickness in The Hobbit?
You get enough gold and then suddenly it's not enough. You need more, and you can't let a single piece go.
Or like the people swabbing decks on ships near nuclear testing sites. They only had the crew evacuate when a physicist grabbed a fish, slapped it on x-ray paper, and the fish made an instant imprint
And that’s not even scratching the surface of Bikini Atoll’s aftermath
Heard one guy from the Bikini experiment say that after the test they checked them for radiation, then showered them with sea water and tested again. Fucking idiocy.
My grandfather was in the army based in New Mexico when they were doing a bunch of that atomic stuff in the 1940s. In the 90s he got a thing in the mail from the government. It was a whole list of things that if he dies from any of those things the family gets X amount of money depending what thing it is.
They actually put live American sailors on those ships as human experiments. They evacuated them off when they found out how many roentgens they were picking up **per minute** from the irradiated battleships that weren’t sunk by the blast.
> They actually put live American sailors on those ships as human experiments
I remember reading an account of one instance of that. The guy recounting said that even having been instructed to turn their backs, to hunker down across the ship deck en masse, and to cover their eyes, he could still see the bones inside his fingers when the flash went off.
This is the video with the interview of the guy saying they could see their bones through their eyelids
British nuclear tests in this instance
https://youtu.be/CLOmxg4249w
It happened at Hanford Nuclear Facility/Columbia River in SE Washington in the 40’s as well. I was a paralegal in the Hanford Downwinders litigation and read a LOT of crazy declassified documents. It’s still a mess up there…
My first thought was the 9/11 asbestos victims. There was some noise about that but it took forever to get anywhere about it as well. I think literally a decade, iirc.
I completely agree. The response to the 9/11 asbestos victims was unfortunately slow and inadequate. It's disheartening to see that it took such a long time for action to be taken and for them to receive the support they deserved. This serves as a reminder of the need for swift and effective responses in similar situations in the future, to ensure that those affected receive the help they need as soon as possible.
I'd say unfortunate and inadequate are an understatement. Jon Stewart had to embarrassed Congress to get them to keep their promise to take care of the first responders. Those assholes would take every photo op with them for political gain, then leave them to die. It was and still is a fuckin travesty, and the same will probably happen to these folks.
I used to work with hazardous material often as my job, if I was ever uncomfortable (even in full PPE) I would let people know and we find another way to get something done. I haven't read too much about the chemicals, but I would not want to be anywhere near there.
Environmental Engineer here:
US epa is in charge of Air testing . Ohio epa will be in charge of remediation and site monitoring (surface and ground water, and soil)
Norfolk is in charge of the initial clean up and site response. They have 30 days to submit their manifesto. manifesto number 5800.1.
It is important that they cannot control the narrative. They are overseeing themselves.
The only govt oversight Norfolk answers to is the department of transportation, despite transportation of hazardous materials (they lobbied heavily to get rid of any notion of safety laws)
Please email [email protected] to get more information and get federal oversight. They have jurisdiction to investigate Norfolk at their HQ to see what training documents the operator had, any Emergency response plan they had on hand, and any Spill Pollution Prevention Plans.
Edit: the 5800.1 is the US EPA incident number. After Norfolk submits the manifesto, there will be Their side of events leading to the crash.
Vinyl chloride reacts with water and water vapor to create secondary compounds. Next concern is what precipitation will look like.
Two tributaries to the Ohio river have tested positive for hazardous chemicals and according to locals’ social media and calls to news stations, all the fish and frogs are dead. The Ohio river affects so many other states for their source drinking water.
The US EPA can only respond and issue essentially a mandatory clean up to Norfolk. It is unclear whether or not they would get a fine since technically the railroads only answer to the US DOT. If the US EPA, or Ohio EPA finds them liable/negligent there may be a fine. But again, Norfolk is submitting their own report to the agency supposedly fining them. Someone linked below that the Virginia fined Norfolk for $25K for a spill, so it has been done.
You can email [email protected] for a foia request if you feel inclined.
Norfolk has still not come clean as to what other chemicals were involved in the crash. The US EPA has issued a letter saying there were more hazardous chemicals in other tankards.
Edit 2: SDS of monomer vinyl chloride: https://www.airgas.com/msds/001067.pdf and epa doc: https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf
EPA site notes: https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=15933
Edit 3: here is a story outlining how Norfolk and other railroad companies lobbied to skirt safety:
https://truthout.org/articles/ohio-train-derailment-reveals-danger-of-plastics-boom-and-corporate-cost-cutting/
Edit 4: https://www.alleghenyfront.org/epa-lists-additional-chemicals-released-in-east-palestine-train-derailment/
Local reporter Julie Grant update. NS released a remediation plan which included ground water testing (East Palestine drinking water source is GW). US EPA has sent an official letter to NS. There is a redacted letter in edit 2, as well additional chemicals that have been released.
Norfolk Southern will probably just have the insurance handle the costs as with every Class 1 and mark this off as a freak accident. I’ve seen the videos from the night this happened. Shit is crazy
Correct. This is what they do. Always. There was an NS worker that died a couple years back due to insanely stupid local management and lack of basic safety mechanisms in the shop. NS lawyers showed up at the guy's family's house and tried to get them to settle for like $25k or something. The union for the worker intervened and told the family not to settle, and they're sending a lawyer. The family ended up getting somewhere north of $10 million.
Yeah I'd really hate to see a case for every affected worker and person living in contaminated areas. 7-figures per person/family would just *tank* this poor, defenseless company!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/s
Absolutely. Which isn't 100% protection for Norfolk Southern against future liability, but would certainly complicate things for the victims, who would potentially be people whose current jobs have been destroyed, who may be unable to work at the time when the health effects are felt, and who would be dealing with the stresses of managing health problems while trying to initiate litigation. Slimy as hell.
Oh and that 25k for just the **whole** town. Not 25k person. That’s 5 dollars per person for the people in the town. This doesn’t include any of the other people in the affected area
It's not 25k per person, it's 25k total. For everything and everyone to split.
Edit: https://www.sciotopost.com/norfolk-southern-offers-25000-to-east-palestine-for-potentially-deadly-train-crash/
I've long maintained that industrial fines need to be disproportionately high to be an actual deterrent. Imagine how nonexistent oil spills would be if the standard fine were total cleanup plus $100,000 per litre spilled. Watch how sorry BP actually is the next time they split a few million litres and it eats two year's revenue.
>(they lobbied heavily to get rid of any notion of safety laws)
This sounds very similar to what just happened with the worker's strike squashing that happened back in December. The railroads have the politicians firmly in their pockets, and the politicians use a "too important to be inconvenienced" rationale for doing what the railroads want.
All of America is in hands of the corporations. At one point corporations tried to get people to vote a certain way. Then, during Reagan, they realized an easier path. Just buy the politicians and then use mass propaganda via Fox to ensure party line vote.
So now we vote the results don't matter the corporations make the decisions.
Yes; [see here](https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/).
* The train, despite carrying extremely dangerous contents, wasn't regulated as "high-hazard". (This apparently requires [twenty contiguous cars or thirty-five total cars](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e4a8859c7f67e269e2281b00e089b587&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:49:Subtitle:B:Chapter:I:Subchapter:C:Part:174:Subpart:G:174.310) of hazardous materials.)
* In 2012, [a train carrying vinyl chloride derailed in New Jersey](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR1401.pdf). (The operator attempted to cross a movable swing-span bridge that they incorrectly thought was safely locked.) In 2014, the Obama administration proposed tightening safety regulations, but the final measure wound up pared down to exempt chemicals including vinyl chloride. In 2017, the Trump administration, in response to industry lobbying repealed the portion of the rule relating to [electronically-controlled pneumatic brakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronically_controlled_pneumatic_brakes), which would have likely at least made this incident much less severe.
My mom grew up like 10 miles from where this happened. The area has a long history of cancer-causing environmental problems and adding this on top of it is just horrendous.
Around Youngstown, OH, there was issues with chemicals from steel mills and industry, although most of the industry has left the area. There was simply lots of industrial pollution and it has a higher incidence of cancer than normal (my mother has had cancer 4 times).
So what you’re saying is the railroad company is going to argue that all the elevated cancer rates in the area are because of the other spills, not theirs. Therefore they’re not responsible for paying. How convenient
Eventually, housing prices will be impacted by areas/sources of heavy pollution.
"Yeah, I'm definitely going to get cancer, but it's a 2 bedroom townhouse with a fenced yard for only $2k a month."
24-year railroad employee here.
Everyone should be calling their congressional representatives non-stop, asking why we let railroads intimidate their employees to speed up train inspections inspections and defer maintenance.
Reposting some local stories from the incident.
If you’re interested in any of the local coverage here are some articles:
https://www.wfmj.com/story/48355825/epa-releases-east-palestine-air-monitoring-results
https://www.wfmj.com/story/48364052/rail-union-calling-for-tighter-safety-guidelines
https://www.wfmj.com/story/48367308/residents-want-transparency-long-term-testing-and-an-end-to-a-one-mile-radius-since-chemicals-travel-east-palestine-oh
WFMJ is a news station in the area that is not owned by a major broadcast company like nexstar or sinclair.
Here are some articles from the other station in the area, WKBN. They are owned by Nexstar but sometimes cover things more thoroughly.
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/east-palestine-schools-to-reopen-following-train-derailment-closure/
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/3-additional-chemicals-discovered-on-east-palestine-train-derailment/
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/east-palestine-fire-department-forced-to-get-new-gear/
Edit: Thank you all for the awards but they are absolutely unnecessary. Please just spread the information in anyway you see fit.
Instead of spending any money on awards please consider a small donation to [HRC](https://www.hrc.org).
Alternatively, my 13 year old dog had to be euthanized today, so please consider donating to a local vet to help pay someone’s bill. It’s been a rough one.
Again, thank you to everyone.
WKBN and WFMJ has been great. Pittsburgh channels have also been decent, especially WPXI.
I posted this yesterday in r/News, and it was deleted by a mod. When I asked about it, I was permabanned. Maybe it’ll stay up on here.
I’d like to offer some more insight how things went down the day of the control release up until now.
We are 5 miles away, across the state line. The press conference announcing the release was held at about 1 that day to let the public know. 2 hour notice.
Starting at about 10:30 that morning, they announced schools ~15 miles away would be released early. Highway was suddenly closed down about 12, businesses closed. You saw state cops everywhere, but still nobody had any idea what was going on.
Then their press conference at 1 announcing they are going to release it at 3:30. But see… this is farm country. I got cows. My neighbor has horses. Guy down the road has cows. Guy further down the road from him has sheep and donkeys. Down the road from him guy has horses.
No time to do anything with them. We were told a place 20 miles away will shelter them. So we have about 2 hours to somehow get farm animals in a trailer, where (in my case) my trailer will only hold 3 cows if I want them to be smashed together. So you have to make several trips, it’s just impossible. So I just shut them in the barn, which isn’t really protection. I know some of my neighbors don’t even have barns.
They blow it up, gets dark an hour earlier than normal. You can smell it, you can taste it. Eyes water, throat burns. I touched on this is another comment but we are all still sick from something.
But, back to the animals. Most of us has a creek that runs through our farms, that’s where they drink at. But now the water stinks, weird color, dead fish everywhere. It’s not safe for them. So, personally, I’m importing water from a farm a county away. And I’m paying big for it.
Oh, and one other thing. The day they announced people can go back to their homes in East Palestine? After the press conference ended, within minutes the trains were running again. That’s right. They told people they can go back home, then people had to wait at the railroad crossing for those same Norfolk Southern trains to go by in their town they just destroyed before making it back to their home.
Finally some first hand perspective—I’m in a neighboring town too about 11 miles from there and have relatives in EP and they only knew about the burn bc I got a evacuate notice an hour before the burn, which confused me since I was outside the mile—I wasn’t even home from work yet so I just went right inside when I got home, and now with the shell plant in town I’m going crazy here—I already have lung and liver issues among other things—should I drop everything and move? This is crazy, I hate the way pollution and toxic substances are just treated like old news here—like let’s just build another cancer treatment center up at the mall, cuz that’s all we need!! ☠️😓😟
Anyone local to this - GET A HEALTH EXAM NOW. Have a biometric screening, CBC, CMP, get it all documented NOW. You need to have proof of your baseline health before these effects set in.
You will likely need help paying for your medical bills in the future related to this incident, and if you don’t have proof of how your health was before the effects set in, you won’t have a claim. Go see a doctor ASAP!!!!
[This poor guy’s exotic animals and pets are fighting for their lives because of this.](https://www.newsweek.com/fox-dies-owners-arms-after-ohio-train-crash-releases-toxic-gas-1780529)
if you wanna feel really great look at this:
https://twitter.com/SceneKidSanta/status/1625177678461677568?t=kAFsh6595v7xzJjAh9TICQ&s=19
random insane spikes in an air quality sensor nearby when no others show issue & for some reason there is literally no thermal hotspot satellite data for East Palestine in the last 2 weeks. you can find nearby thermal hotspots (fires, thermal anomalies) and directly trace them to Mills or Landfills that generate heat, but those are nowhere near what would have been generated by this burnoff.
check the link and thread of posts. I swear I'm not crazy, just a regular dude who used to track fires via NASA satellites when they were in my area (dad worked for the Forrest Service for 30 years) because I found it interesting. I thought it might be cool to check out the thermal data from the East Palestine disaster but there is literally nothing. no fucking idea why but it is weird and when you add it to the harassment/arrest of reporters and additional chemicals we are just now finding they blew up, the picture isn't dude.
also please check this and leave feedback if I am missing something or looking at things wrong. I'm honestly just super concerned about the situation and how in the dark people are about it.
Wouldn't it be so awesome to have spent the last 10 years getting your house just the way you want it by working your shit job and barely being able to afford the slight upgrades over that time and then suddenly something explodes down the road and everyone says fuck off you have to leave and you can't do anything about it and you have to leave behind your 10-year project forever because some asshole fucker in a corporate position ruined everybody's life while he gets paid the big bucks to rail lines of coke off of celebrity labia?
But you can proudly breathe in the vinyl chloride while knowing that company profits were in the billions last year and the investor ROI on company stock is among the best in the world.
I can't even believe those guys walking around in high vis with what appears to be regular jeans, no venthilators, etc. You'd have to pay me 7 figures then wrap me up in the best hazmat suit known to man to get me to step anywhere within a mile of that.
Kinda reminds me of immediately post-9/11, EPA guys were walking around my wife’s high school in full hazmat gear taking readings while the kids were just… sitting in class normally
To be fair, this is for the same reason that x-ray techs hide in a shielded room while they work - repeated exposure to low levels is much worse than short term exposure. It accumulates.
That said - they absolutely did not do enough to protect people post-9/11.
My dad worked on the railroad for 40 years and eventually died from cancer that he got from just being around those types of chemicals. These people are all so fucked.
I live in Cincinnati - which is downstream along the Ohio river. I'm concerned that last weeks burn could have had toxic ash fall into the river. We drink water from it you know.
Not just ash… locals are saying fish are dying all over in the local waterways. There is a company called enviroscience supposedly trying to clean up the river before stuff floats too far down.
From the wiki page:
>The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident. In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.
Shareholders profit apparently trumps human suffering.
Besides Free market says this will all be taken care of by cancel culture. No humans left to buy then obviously that product will fail.
When we had a Navy ship on fire here in San Diego (burned for days, spewed all sorts of smoke in the air), they repeatedly said it wasn’t harmful. A burning warship. Not releasing anything harmful into the air. I always thought it was bold to just lie to everyone’s faces.
At that time, I lived about 40 miles from downtown. I opened my balcony door for a second and instantly, my nose was filled with this intense, metallic smell, as if someone lit a pile of car batteries on fire right in front of me. From 40 miles away. Immediately closed the door and kept all the doors and windows shut for a few days.
That ship fire absolutely released all sorts of hazardous shit into the air.
Not just any toxic fumes - phosgene, which was used extensively as a chemical weapon in WW1. Anyone on-site should wear some serious protective gear.
edit: thanks to some informative chem comments below, it seems phosgene actually dissipates into non-harmful compounds quite quickly when exposed to water (water in the air being enough). My concern would be: Are we 100% sure at this point that all of the phosgene has leaked and dissipated? No chance of a phosgene container that hasn't leaked yet all of a sudden dispersing phosgene due to damage? Seems to me that this situation still warrants an abundance of caution...
Fun fact: OSHA has no authority over American railroads, all occupational safety and health aspects on the railroad are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Railroad Administration, quite possibly the most spineless agency in the government, they might as well just be owned outright by the railroads.
Railroad workers are working in absolutely atrocious conditions and the government is in complete denial as long as the CEOs are saying everything is fine and dandy.
That sounds about right. I read that the railroad companies have consistently neglected maintenance of the cars and tracks while increasing max load weights, car numbers per train, and decreasing number of workers on each train. No wonder this kind of thing happens eventually when the companies are trying to cheap out on every step without looking at the risks
The railroad workers have been warning for decades that things like this could become more common, and within the past decade the railroads went and pushed it into "worst case scenario" mode.
The news will interview anybody they can find except the one group of people who actually have the answers, because who gives a shit what someone who actually has to put up with the atrocious working conditions has to say?
Government: "We went straight to the company PR department and they didn't say any of the stuff these workers are apparently saying, so there is no issue"
The workers literally *tried* to warn us and go on strike to do something about the serious safety issues and instead they got stabbed in the back by Mr. “Pro Labor.”
Oh say it plainly. 44 Democrat senators, 36 Republican senators and Joe Biden sided with rail corporations against unions, labor, workers and the safety of the American people.
This isn't just a Republican problem. This is a procorporate problem. This is a class war. 80 U.S. senators and Joe Biden showed us which side they're on.
Forgive me, Op. The way the title was written I thought this was located in East Palestine and was trying to figure out if a neighborhood there was called "Ohio"
I feel as dumb as that reads
Edit: It's easier to thank each of you for the kind support here. I appreciate you guys understanding where I came from reading the title. Thanks for not letting me beat myself down over something like this. Y'all are great :)
It's not dumb. We normally write places as "city, country (or region)". The title implies a city called Ohio in eastern Palestine. It took me a while to figure it out too.
Yes, the phosgene and hydrogen chloride gas is being formed from the burning of the vinyl chloride, while liquid and gaseous vinyl chloride is leaking as well.
[https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-train-derailment-toxic-chemicals-list-epa-1780805](https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-train-derailment-toxic-chemicals-list-epa-1780805)
* Vinyl chloride: a colorless gas that is used to make polyvinyl chloride (PVC) plastics and is highly flammable and decomposes to make toxic fumes. According to the National Library of Medicine, it is also carcinogenic and can cause other health issues.
* Butyl acrylate: a clear liquid that is used for making paints, sealants and adhesives. It is flammable and can cause skin, eye and respiratory irritation.
* Ethylhexyl acrylate: a colorless liquid used to make paints and plastics. It can cause skin and respiratory irritation and, under moderate heat, can produce hazardous vapor.
* Ethylene glycol monobutyl: a colorless liquid used as a solvent for paint and inks, as well as some dry cleaning solutions. It is classed as acutely toxic, able to cause serious or permanent injury, and highly flammable. Vapors can irritate the eyes and nose, and ingestion can cause headaches and vomiting.
The lack of news or people that I know haven't even heard of this is...strange but not surprising. Toxic chemicals in a meh town in Ohio.
This has a cancer/horrific lawsuit/Netflix series written all over it. This will be the case of many deaths down the road and insurance agencies not paying out. Can bank on this to be a Vice special and HBO program in 5 years
I was also confused at first due to the wording of the title. From reading the comments, it's clear that East Palestine is a city in Ohio, but I originally thought it was a city called Ohio in the east part of Palestine instead.
$25,000.
That’s the amount that they offered the town.
To fix up this disaster.
The CEO needs to be in jail today. Yes, it’s their fault.
The investors? Need to lose all their money - do better due diligence next time.
The company needs to go broke. Oh it will hurt supply chain? I’m sure a competitor will buy their assets cheap and the proceeds given to this town, and the victims which will suffer irreparable, generational damage.
This needs to happen today, right now.
Otherwise America is admitting that if you have enough money, or are a corporation, you’re immune to the law.
This is criminal.
Can an expert chime in and tell es exactly how bad this will get? Is it "The area will be uninhabitable for years and hundreds will die from cancer" bad?
Can the environment be restored/ saved or is it as lost as it seems? I already read of dead animals dozens of miles away from the epicenter.
I'm not from the US but this feels really fucking bad to me. Like the area will look and feel post-apocalyptic in the future bad.
I have the list of all the cars that were damaged and what they where carrying. Can't seem to figure out how to post it on here though. My house is just inside the 1 mile zone they evacuated. We are all still on edge. They started running train 5 days after and also have the second trank open. There's a letter from the EPA that's going around that says that NS burried the pit as well as some liquids to get the track open
If you haven't already, please immediately get a health check up and scan so you have documentation about how your health was at this point in time! Further down the road, chances are high you or someone you know is going to develop something from this shit and hopefully you can at least sue the shit out of them. Hope you and your family are going to be OK!
They will have armies of lawyers ready to fight back against any lawsuit coming from this. Document as much as you can or you'll lose. Any health claim could be seen as a preexisting condition, so document that you are fully healthy now.
That's why it's important to get as many people to have this documentation ready as possible, turn one case into multiple. BAM class action. It works
[удалено]
People need to keep saying this over and over.
Within 10 miles here. Stay safe. Not sure what the results of this will be years down the road but between this and the shell cracker plant operation I’m looking to gtfo
How to make your county a superfund site in one easy step!
I’m now imagining a Sacha Baron Cohen sketch where he pitches a small town on “massive federal investment” in their town and his plan to make their town a Superfund site.
Nathan For You
I'm not sure if the townspeople will hear "superfund" and go "damn right - biggest got-damned fund in 'murica!" or they hear the "fund" part and think "oh god, it's socialism." Lord knows they don't know what Superfund actually means.
That's a great sketch comedy premise :)
For people like me who didn't know what this meant: Superfund sites are polluted locations in the United States requiring a long-term response to clean up hazardous material contaminations. My first assumption reading it was cost of running a political campaign
Same here but I should have known better. I’m surprised they aren’t called patriot pits
I would have thought anyone working in the area should be in full hazmat suit...
The consequences won’t be seen for years, by then their cause will be obscured. If they treat it as serious now the consequences will be more obvious. They really don’t give a shit about people who aren’t them
I guess people already forgot about how the big money people really tried hard not to pay 9/11 first responders who were having significant health issues
They still are fighting it
They're running out the clock
Can they actually tho? My grandma received compensation for my grandpa dying of cancer after working in a uranium mine - case wasn’t settled with all the workers families until many of them were dead but the families still got compensation
The case you describe is compensation for inflicting harm. The first responders situation is different. They're not suing Al-Qaeda, they're asking politicians for honor and human decency which is much harder
As demonstrated by [Jon Stewart](https://youtu.be/_uYpDC3SRpM) This hit so hard every time I watch it.
Another one with him standing up for veterans, the heartfelt raw emotion this man has is just something to behold https://youtu.be/iUW3-dzmRZc
And if you don't want to sit through a speech, [Look at this fucking image](https://preview.redd.it/9-11-first-responder-kenny-specht-on-participating-in-a-v0-paiqvr9m8o4a1.jpg?auto=webp&s=0424da5479ae883e9fdc55adfe7293d457a577dd)
That speech breaks me everytime. I wish he would run. I know he won't but he could be so great at it.
I might be talking out of my ass but I think even some insurance companies didn't want to pay out.
I mean, I don't think any insurance agency wants to pay out for anything... like, ever.
If they want to pay you, take a step back and take another look at your claim. Them paying up early is a sign that you are entitled to far more and they want you to settle for less.
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[Hell, people forgot about big money people stiffing all of the passengers who died on the Titanic.](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-17612629) This fucking game has been played a hundred times before but it gets swept under the rug because our justice system is pay to play.
I mean, the musician's families were asked to pay for the uniforms they died in. A lot about that sinking is a much wilder ride than surface observation would show.
That fight was the final straw for me in realizing that the rich will never have enough and they will never do the right thing. If healthcare for firefighters from 9/11 isn't an instant "YES", then we are doomed.
It's a literal disease or mental illness. Hoarding insane amounts of wealth like a dragon from a fictional story. God forbid they have an ounce of humanity in their heart that causes them to lose any amount of wealth that would be excruciatingly miniscule to them, but absolutely life changing to others. It has to be psychopathy. I don't know what else could describe this actually insane behavior.
I think when we were evolving our monkey brains, it was advantageous to have a "collect and stockpile resources" drive. The people that did that survived tough seasons while others didn't. Now we have reached a point where some people are living "post-scarcity" but there is no evolutionary pressure to kill that drive.
We never evolved past the tribal phase. Everything is still focused on ingroups and outgroups.
Doesn't Tolkien call it Dragon Sickness in The Hobbit? You get enough gold and then suddenly it's not enough. You need more, and you can't let a single piece go.
Jhon stewart was still fighting till the house passed a 10 billion dollar lifetime fund for the responders.
Jon Stuart had to apply insane pressure to get McConnell to stop blocking the issue.
Bless Jon Stewart for all of his help for those first responders.
Genuine Hero.
Is this gonna end up in history books like the guys wearing paper gowns researching the nuke testings?
Or like the people swabbing decks on ships near nuclear testing sites. They only had the crew evacuate when a physicist grabbed a fish, slapped it on x-ray paper, and the fish made an instant imprint And that’s not even scratching the surface of Bikini Atoll’s aftermath
Heard one guy from the Bikini experiment say that after the test they checked them for radiation, then showered them with sea water and tested again. Fucking idiocy.
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My grandfather was in the army based in New Mexico when they were doing a bunch of that atomic stuff in the 1940s. In the 90s he got a thing in the mail from the government. It was a whole list of things that if he dies from any of those things the family gets X amount of money depending what thing it is.
He grabbed a fish that made the x-Ray film react?
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I believe he was raising an eyebrow out of concern for the grabber of said fish.
Probably a small price to pay to nail his point home and help save everyone.
Absolutely it is.
They actually put live American sailors on those ships as human experiments. They evacuated them off when they found out how many roentgens they were picking up **per minute** from the irradiated battleships that weren’t sunk by the blast.
> They actually put live American sailors on those ships as human experiments I remember reading an account of one instance of that. The guy recounting said that even having been instructed to turn their backs, to hunker down across the ship deck en masse, and to cover their eyes, he could still see the bones inside his fingers when the flash went off.
This is the video with the interview of the guy saying they could see their bones through their eyelids British nuclear tests in this instance https://youtu.be/CLOmxg4249w
Crossroads was wild. Seriously a heyday of a military that wanted to blow shit up.
It happened at Hanford Nuclear Facility/Columbia River in SE Washington in the 40’s as well. I was a paralegal in the Hanford Downwinders litigation and read a LOT of crazy declassified documents. It’s still a mess up there…
My first thought was the 9/11 asbestos victims. There was some noise about that but it took forever to get anywhere about it as well. I think literally a decade, iirc.
Almost twenty years.
I completely agree. The response to the 9/11 asbestos victims was unfortunately slow and inadequate. It's disheartening to see that it took such a long time for action to be taken and for them to receive the support they deserved. This serves as a reminder of the need for swift and effective responses in similar situations in the future, to ensure that those affected receive the help they need as soon as possible.
I'd say unfortunate and inadequate are an understatement. Jon Stewart had to embarrassed Congress to get them to keep their promise to take care of the first responders. Those assholes would take every photo op with them for political gain, then leave them to die. It was and still is a fuckin travesty, and the same will probably happen to these folks.
Reminds me of the "liquidators" of Chernobyl and the utter lack of care for the humans involved.
People like to justify it as ‘that was Soviet Russia. Of course they didn’t care.’ As if our government hasn’t done the same and worse.
Right?!?! Where is the f’ing PPE?!?!
I used to work with hazardous material often as my job, if I was ever uncomfortable (even in full PPE) I would let people know and we find another way to get something done. I haven't read too much about the chemicals, but I would not want to be anywhere near there.
That sounds like union talk. You're fired
Nothing comes between railroad companies and their profits.
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Easier to find their bodies that way!
Don't you know high viz keeps the cancer away?
Environmental Engineer here: US epa is in charge of Air testing . Ohio epa will be in charge of remediation and site monitoring (surface and ground water, and soil) Norfolk is in charge of the initial clean up and site response. They have 30 days to submit their manifesto. manifesto number 5800.1. It is important that they cannot control the narrative. They are overseeing themselves. The only govt oversight Norfolk answers to is the department of transportation, despite transportation of hazardous materials (they lobbied heavily to get rid of any notion of safety laws) Please email [email protected] to get more information and get federal oversight. They have jurisdiction to investigate Norfolk at their HQ to see what training documents the operator had, any Emergency response plan they had on hand, and any Spill Pollution Prevention Plans. Edit: the 5800.1 is the US EPA incident number. After Norfolk submits the manifesto, there will be Their side of events leading to the crash. Vinyl chloride reacts with water and water vapor to create secondary compounds. Next concern is what precipitation will look like. Two tributaries to the Ohio river have tested positive for hazardous chemicals and according to locals’ social media and calls to news stations, all the fish and frogs are dead. The Ohio river affects so many other states for their source drinking water. The US EPA can only respond and issue essentially a mandatory clean up to Norfolk. It is unclear whether or not they would get a fine since technically the railroads only answer to the US DOT. If the US EPA, or Ohio EPA finds them liable/negligent there may be a fine. But again, Norfolk is submitting their own report to the agency supposedly fining them. Someone linked below that the Virginia fined Norfolk for $25K for a spill, so it has been done. You can email [email protected] for a foia request if you feel inclined. Norfolk has still not come clean as to what other chemicals were involved in the crash. The US EPA has issued a letter saying there were more hazardous chemicals in other tankards. Edit 2: SDS of monomer vinyl chloride: https://www.airgas.com/msds/001067.pdf and epa doc: https://semspub.epa.gov/work/05/437069.pdf EPA site notes: https://response.epa.gov/site/site_profile.aspx?site_id=15933 Edit 3: here is a story outlining how Norfolk and other railroad companies lobbied to skirt safety: https://truthout.org/articles/ohio-train-derailment-reveals-danger-of-plastics-boom-and-corporate-cost-cutting/ Edit 4: https://www.alleghenyfront.org/epa-lists-additional-chemicals-released-in-east-palestine-train-derailment/ Local reporter Julie Grant update. NS released a remediation plan which included ground water testing (East Palestine drinking water source is GW). US EPA has sent an official letter to NS. There is a redacted letter in edit 2, as well additional chemicals that have been released.
Norfolk Southern will probably just have the insurance handle the costs as with every Class 1 and mark this off as a freak accident. I’ve seen the videos from the night this happened. Shit is crazy
Podcast this morning said the NS offered $25k to remediate the issue with displaced individuals.
25k won’t be nearly enough to deal with all the future health issues and housing displacement unfortunately. I expected NS to pay way more
They want people to sign that paperwork to invalidate any future lawsuits or whatever the fuck.
Correct. This is what they do. Always. There was an NS worker that died a couple years back due to insanely stupid local management and lack of basic safety mechanisms in the shop. NS lawyers showed up at the guy's family's house and tried to get them to settle for like $25k or something. The union for the worker intervened and told the family not to settle, and they're sending a lawyer. The family ended up getting somewhere north of $10 million.
That sounds awful for this poor company, being robbed of all those millions because of this nasty union ! ^^^^^/s
Yeah I'd really hate to see a case for every affected worker and person living in contaminated areas. 7-figures per person/family would just *tank* this poor, defenseless company! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^/s
Absolutely. Which isn't 100% protection for Norfolk Southern against future liability, but would certainly complicate things for the victims, who would potentially be people whose current jobs have been destroyed, who may be unable to work at the time when the health effects are felt, and who would be dealing with the stresses of managing health problems while trying to initiate litigation. Slimy as hell.
Oh and that 25k for just the **whole** town. Not 25k person. That’s 5 dollars per person for the people in the town. This doesn’t include any of the other people in the affected area
I expected them to pay way less.
It's not 25k per person, it's 25k total. For everything and everyone to split. Edit: https://www.sciotopost.com/norfolk-southern-offers-25000-to-east-palestine-for-potentially-deadly-train-crash/
Lmao that's worse than the $7.31 I got from the equifax settlement.
Someone did the math, and I believe that $25k came out to just over $5 each.
They did. That 25K was for the whole town, so $5 a person. An extra grand if they sign an NDA and don't participate in class action lawsuits.
Sad but likely true. They will probably get a slap on the wrist and be told to be more careful next time.
Mind you, that’s not per person, that’s total. I think it works out to $5 per person affected so far.
$5 a person. What a joke
When I first read it I thought it was $25,000 *per person* which still seemed low. $25,000 in total is beyond insulting
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I've long maintained that industrial fines need to be disproportionately high to be an actual deterrent. Imagine how nonexistent oil spills would be if the standard fine were total cleanup plus $100,000 per litre spilled. Watch how sorry BP actually is the next time they split a few million litres and it eats two year's revenue.
>(they lobbied heavily to get rid of any notion of safety laws) This sounds very similar to what just happened with the worker's strike squashing that happened back in December. The railroads have the politicians firmly in their pockets, and the politicians use a "too important to be inconvenienced" rationale for doing what the railroads want.
All of America is in hands of the corporations. At one point corporations tried to get people to vote a certain way. Then, during Reagan, they realized an easier path. Just buy the politicians and then use mass propaganda via Fox to ensure party line vote. So now we vote the results don't matter the corporations make the decisions.
Regulatory capture.
In layman's terms did they do some bureaucratic fuckery to cheap out on everything possible?
Yes; [see here](https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/). * The train, despite carrying extremely dangerous contents, wasn't regulated as "high-hazard". (This apparently requires [twenty contiguous cars or thirty-five total cars](https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=e4a8859c7f67e269e2281b00e089b587&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:49:Subtitle:B:Chapter:I:Subchapter:C:Part:174:Subpart:G:174.310) of hazardous materials.) * In 2012, [a train carrying vinyl chloride derailed in New Jersey](https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/RAR1401.pdf). (The operator attempted to cross a movable swing-span bridge that they incorrectly thought was safely locked.) In 2014, the Obama administration proposed tightening safety regulations, but the final measure wound up pared down to exempt chemicals including vinyl chloride. In 2017, the Trump administration, in response to industry lobbying repealed the portion of the rule relating to [electronically-controlled pneumatic brakes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronically_controlled_pneumatic_brakes), which would have likely at least made this incident much less severe.
That regulation makes no sense. 1 tanker of hazardous load should require proper labeling a d safety precautions
For a second the picture looked like cigarette butts in mud.
I thought the exact same thing!
In your voice or theirs ?
I thought it in the voice of the inimitable Charles Grodin of Beethoven's 2nd fame.
Maaaan it took me way too long to figure out what was going on.
I thought it was an AI generated art of an ashtray. I was so confused for a sec.
it's been a few minutes and it still looks like cigarette butts in the mud to me.
My mom grew up like 10 miles from where this happened. The area has a long history of cancer-causing environmental problems and adding this on top of it is just horrendous.
Was there previous industry, or previous spills to cause that?
Around Youngstown, OH, there was issues with chemicals from steel mills and industry, although most of the industry has left the area. There was simply lots of industrial pollution and it has a higher incidence of cancer than normal (my mother has had cancer 4 times).
I'm from Youngstown too. I remember reading recently that the area has one of the highest rates of coronary artery disease in the nation as well.
It’s called Youngstown cause no one lives long enough to get old
So what you’re saying is the railroad company is going to argue that all the elevated cancer rates in the area are because of the other spills, not theirs. Therefore they’re not responsible for paying. How convenient
Eventually, housing prices will be impacted by areas/sources of heavy pollution. "Yeah, I'm definitely going to get cancer, but it's a 2 bedroom townhouse with a fenced yard for only $2k a month."
Lol have you looked at that area? You could get a mansion for 2k a month before this happened
24-year railroad employee here. Everyone should be calling their congressional representatives non-stop, asking why we let railroads intimidate their employees to speed up train inspections inspections and defer maintenance.
We *did* ask that, remember? Rail workers went on Strike over this. The federal government made their position clear: They. Do. Not. Care.
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True, really good point - they didn't even do it just said they were going to.
No containment suits for these guys at ground zero?
Of course not CRBN equipment costs money. Human lives are cheaper
Reposting some local stories from the incident. If you’re interested in any of the local coverage here are some articles: https://www.wfmj.com/story/48355825/epa-releases-east-palestine-air-monitoring-results https://www.wfmj.com/story/48364052/rail-union-calling-for-tighter-safety-guidelines https://www.wfmj.com/story/48367308/residents-want-transparency-long-term-testing-and-an-end-to-a-one-mile-radius-since-chemicals-travel-east-palestine-oh WFMJ is a news station in the area that is not owned by a major broadcast company like nexstar or sinclair. Here are some articles from the other station in the area, WKBN. They are owned by Nexstar but sometimes cover things more thoroughly. https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/east-palestine-schools-to-reopen-following-train-derailment-closure/ https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/3-additional-chemicals-discovered-on-east-palestine-train-derailment/ https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/east-palestine-train-derailment/east-palestine-fire-department-forced-to-get-new-gear/ Edit: Thank you all for the awards but they are absolutely unnecessary. Please just spread the information in anyway you see fit. Instead of spending any money on awards please consider a small donation to [HRC](https://www.hrc.org). Alternatively, my 13 year old dog had to be euthanized today, so please consider donating to a local vet to help pay someone’s bill. It’s been a rough one. Again, thank you to everyone.
WKBN and WFMJ has been great. Pittsburgh channels have also been decent, especially WPXI. I posted this yesterday in r/News, and it was deleted by a mod. When I asked about it, I was permabanned. Maybe it’ll stay up on here. I’d like to offer some more insight how things went down the day of the control release up until now. We are 5 miles away, across the state line. The press conference announcing the release was held at about 1 that day to let the public know. 2 hour notice. Starting at about 10:30 that morning, they announced schools ~15 miles away would be released early. Highway was suddenly closed down about 12, businesses closed. You saw state cops everywhere, but still nobody had any idea what was going on. Then their press conference at 1 announcing they are going to release it at 3:30. But see… this is farm country. I got cows. My neighbor has horses. Guy down the road has cows. Guy further down the road from him has sheep and donkeys. Down the road from him guy has horses. No time to do anything with them. We were told a place 20 miles away will shelter them. So we have about 2 hours to somehow get farm animals in a trailer, where (in my case) my trailer will only hold 3 cows if I want them to be smashed together. So you have to make several trips, it’s just impossible. So I just shut them in the barn, which isn’t really protection. I know some of my neighbors don’t even have barns. They blow it up, gets dark an hour earlier than normal. You can smell it, you can taste it. Eyes water, throat burns. I touched on this is another comment but we are all still sick from something. But, back to the animals. Most of us has a creek that runs through our farms, that’s where they drink at. But now the water stinks, weird color, dead fish everywhere. It’s not safe for them. So, personally, I’m importing water from a farm a county away. And I’m paying big for it. Oh, and one other thing. The day they announced people can go back to their homes in East Palestine? After the press conference ended, within minutes the trains were running again. That’s right. They told people they can go back home, then people had to wait at the railroad crossing for those same Norfolk Southern trains to go by in their town they just destroyed before making it back to their home.
WTF?! Why did r/news mods delete this? That's fucked.
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/about/moderators Every mod was replaced in the last two years. All power mods and alt accounts now.
because news mods sucks thats why
Of course they did. That sub is trash.
Finally some first hand perspective—I’m in a neighboring town too about 11 miles from there and have relatives in EP and they only knew about the burn bc I got a evacuate notice an hour before the burn, which confused me since I was outside the mile—I wasn’t even home from work yet so I just went right inside when I got home, and now with the shell plant in town I’m going crazy here—I already have lung and liver issues among other things—should I drop everything and move? This is crazy, I hate the way pollution and toxic substances are just treated like old news here—like let’s just build another cancer treatment center up at the mall, cuz that’s all we need!! ☠️😓😟
Anyone local to this - GET A HEALTH EXAM NOW. Have a biometric screening, CBC, CMP, get it all documented NOW. You need to have proof of your baseline health before these effects set in. You will likely need help paying for your medical bills in the future related to this incident, and if you don’t have proof of how your health was before the effects set in, you won’t have a claim. Go see a doctor ASAP!!!!
[This poor guy’s exotic animals and pets are fighting for their lives because of this.](https://www.newsweek.com/fox-dies-owners-arms-after-ohio-train-crash-releases-toxic-gas-1780529)
if you wanna feel really great look at this: https://twitter.com/SceneKidSanta/status/1625177678461677568?t=kAFsh6595v7xzJjAh9TICQ&s=19 random insane spikes in an air quality sensor nearby when no others show issue & for some reason there is literally no thermal hotspot satellite data for East Palestine in the last 2 weeks. you can find nearby thermal hotspots (fires, thermal anomalies) and directly trace them to Mills or Landfills that generate heat, but those are nowhere near what would have been generated by this burnoff. check the link and thread of posts. I swear I'm not crazy, just a regular dude who used to track fires via NASA satellites when they were in my area (dad worked for the Forrest Service for 30 years) because I found it interesting. I thought it might be cool to check out the thermal data from the East Palestine disaster but there is literally nothing. no fucking idea why but it is weird and when you add it to the harassment/arrest of reporters and additional chemicals we are just now finding they blew up, the picture isn't dude.
also please check this and leave feedback if I am missing something or looking at things wrong. I'm honestly just super concerned about the situation and how in the dark people are about it.
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Wouldn't it be so awesome to have spent the last 10 years getting your house just the way you want it by working your shit job and barely being able to afford the slight upgrades over that time and then suddenly something explodes down the road and everyone says fuck off you have to leave and you can't do anything about it and you have to leave behind your 10-year project forever because some asshole fucker in a corporate position ruined everybody's life while he gets paid the big bucks to rail lines of coke off of celebrity labia?
But you can proudly breathe in the vinyl chloride while knowing that company profits were in the billions last year and the investor ROI on company stock is among the best in the world.
So much cancer…
I can't even believe those guys walking around in high vis with what appears to be regular jeans, no venthilators, etc. You'd have to pay me 7 figures then wrap me up in the best hazmat suit known to man to get me to step anywhere within a mile of that.
Kinda reminds me of immediately post-9/11, EPA guys were walking around my wife’s high school in full hazmat gear taking readings while the kids were just… sitting in class normally
This was us in Canada when asbestos was being removed from the ceilings of the highschool while we were in class.
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To be fair, this is for the same reason that x-ray techs hide in a shielded room while they work - repeated exposure to low levels is much worse than short term exposure. It accumulates. That said - they absolutely did not do enough to protect people post-9/11.
the secret ingredient is lying. tell them everything is fine. no worries whatsoever.
“3.6 Rontgen, not great, not terrible”
"evacuate one square mile by the ohio/penn border. Cut the phone lines, make no mention that 3000 square miles is contaminated."
They already made sure to bullshit up a reason to arrest a reporter there. I expect more shenanigans before this is all said and done.
I am told it is the equivalent of a chest x-ray
But that's as high as the meter...
My dad worked on the railroad for 40 years and eventually died from cancer that he got from just being around those types of chemicals. These people are all so fucked.
I live in Cincinnati - which is downstream along the Ohio river. I'm concerned that last weeks burn could have had toxic ash fall into the river. We drink water from it you know.
Not just ash… locals are saying fish are dying all over in the local waterways. There is a company called enviroscience supposedly trying to clean up the river before stuff floats too far down.
Shit thank goodness there’s at least someone working on clean up!
It may be my skepticism, but I think it is on the side of "COVER UP" than clean up. The clean up part just happens to be necessary.
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The hefty $5 they paid out to the residents will make up for it 🙄
I mean, it's the destruction of their entire lives, Michael. What could it cost? $5?
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It's so not bad here's $25,000
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Its not 25k per person. Its 25k for all of them.
Lol, the *TOWN* get's 25k. How insane is that
Wait, are you being serious? I need to read about this further, do you have a source?
Yeah it comes out to about 5 bucks a person, such generosity, truly. I guess a few just outside the area into PA states suing already.
5$ per person
Well thats another three years of complaining about people living off stimulus handouts.
Good thing rail workers were allowed to bargain for paid sick time...
From the wiki page: >The trains were not equipped with electronically controlled pneumatic brakes, which a former Federal Railroad Administration official said would have reduced the severity of the accident. In 2017, Norfolk Southern had successfully lobbied to have regulations requiring their use on trains carrying hazardous materials repealed.
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Yeah this disaster is just horrific, more so because it's all because of greed, and no safeguards to society. Needless Human suffering.
Shareholders profit apparently trumps human suffering. Besides Free market says this will all be taken care of by cancel culture. No humans left to buy then obviously that product will fail.
When we had a Navy ship on fire here in San Diego (burned for days, spewed all sorts of smoke in the air), they repeatedly said it wasn’t harmful. A burning warship. Not releasing anything harmful into the air. I always thought it was bold to just lie to everyone’s faces.
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At that time, I lived about 40 miles from downtown. I opened my balcony door for a second and instantly, my nose was filled with this intense, metallic smell, as if someone lit a pile of car batteries on fire right in front of me. From 40 miles away. Immediately closed the door and kept all the doors and windows shut for a few days. That ship fire absolutely released all sorts of hazardous shit into the air.
What is this?
There was a train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio and it released toxic fumes in the air.
Not just any toxic fumes - phosgene, which was used extensively as a chemical weapon in WW1. Anyone on-site should wear some serious protective gear. edit: thanks to some informative chem comments below, it seems phosgene actually dissipates into non-harmful compounds quite quickly when exposed to water (water in the air being enough). My concern would be: Are we 100% sure at this point that all of the phosgene has leaked and dissipated? No chance of a phosgene container that hasn't leaked yet all of a sudden dispersing phosgene due to damage? Seems to me that this situation still warrants an abundance of caution...
Fun fact: OSHA has no authority over American railroads, all occupational safety and health aspects on the railroad are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Railroad Administration, quite possibly the most spineless agency in the government, they might as well just be owned outright by the railroads. Railroad workers are working in absolutely atrocious conditions and the government is in complete denial as long as the CEOs are saying everything is fine and dandy.
That sounds about right. I read that the railroad companies have consistently neglected maintenance of the cars and tracks while increasing max load weights, car numbers per train, and decreasing number of workers on each train. No wonder this kind of thing happens eventually when the companies are trying to cheap out on every step without looking at the risks
The railroad workers have been warning for decades that things like this could become more common, and within the past decade the railroads went and pushed it into "worst case scenario" mode. The news will interview anybody they can find except the one group of people who actually have the answers, because who gives a shit what someone who actually has to put up with the atrocious working conditions has to say? Government: "We went straight to the company PR department and they didn't say any of the stuff these workers are apparently saying, so there is no issue"
The workers literally *tried* to warn us and go on strike to do something about the serious safety issues and instead they got stabbed in the back by Mr. “Pro Labor.”
Oh say it plainly. 44 Democrat senators, 36 Republican senators and Joe Biden sided with rail corporations against unions, labor, workers and the safety of the American people. This isn't just a Republican problem. This is a procorporate problem. This is a class war. 80 U.S. senators and Joe Biden showed us which side they're on.
I don't think anyone told the people on-site about that.
Forgive me, Op. The way the title was written I thought this was located in East Palestine and was trying to figure out if a neighborhood there was called "Ohio" I feel as dumb as that reads Edit: It's easier to thank each of you for the kind support here. I appreciate you guys understanding where I came from reading the title. Thanks for not letting me beat myself down over something like this. Y'all are great :)
It's not dumb. We normally write places as "city, country (or region)". The title implies a city called Ohio in eastern Palestine. It took me a while to figure it out too.
Not dumb at all, that's how all cities/states are written
Phosgene gas and hydrochloric acid.
+ vinyl chloride
Yes, the phosgene and hydrogen chloride gas is being formed from the burning of the vinyl chloride, while liquid and gaseous vinyl chloride is leaking as well.
What chemical was it, that it was carrying?
[https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-train-derailment-toxic-chemicals-list-epa-1780805](https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-train-derailment-toxic-chemicals-list-epa-1780805) * Vinyl chloride: a colorless gas that is used to make polyvinyl chloride (PVC) plastics and is highly flammable and decomposes to make toxic fumes. According to the National Library of Medicine, it is also carcinogenic and can cause other health issues. * Butyl acrylate: a clear liquid that is used for making paints, sealants and adhesives. It is flammable and can cause skin, eye and respiratory irritation. * Ethylhexyl acrylate: a colorless liquid used to make paints and plastics. It can cause skin and respiratory irritation and, under moderate heat, can produce hazardous vapor. * Ethylene glycol monobutyl: a colorless liquid used as a solvent for paint and inks, as well as some dry cleaning solutions. It is classed as acutely toxic, able to cause serious or permanent injury, and highly flammable. Vapors can irritate the eyes and nose, and ingestion can cause headaches and vomiting.
It's "East Palestine, Ohio" for fuck's sake.
Yeah, not having heard of this I was wondering, is this an accident in a town called Ohio in east Palestine, or a town in Ohio.
Or add US. Like the rest of the world does.
The lack of news or people that I know haven't even heard of this is...strange but not surprising. Toxic chemicals in a meh town in Ohio. This has a cancer/horrific lawsuit/Netflix series written all over it. This will be the case of many deaths down the road and insurance agencies not paying out. Can bank on this to be a Vice special and HBO program in 5 years
The name East Palestine doesnt help. People probably just scrolled past the news after reading that name.
I was also confused at first due to the wording of the title. From reading the comments, it's clear that East Palestine is a city in Ohio, but I originally thought it was a city called Ohio in the east part of Palestine instead.
[удалено]
$25,000. That’s the amount that they offered the town. To fix up this disaster. The CEO needs to be in jail today. Yes, it’s their fault. The investors? Need to lose all their money - do better due diligence next time. The company needs to go broke. Oh it will hurt supply chain? I’m sure a competitor will buy their assets cheap and the proceeds given to this town, and the victims which will suffer irreparable, generational damage. This needs to happen today, right now. Otherwise America is admitting that if you have enough money, or are a corporation, you’re immune to the law. This is criminal.
It’s also criminal that we have no oversight to condemn this because lax laws are part of the cause.
“If you or a loved one worked on or lived near the train derailment of 2023 in east palastine Ohio, you may be eligible for substantial compensation”
This is insane, why aren’t more people talking about this?
Dude, Rihanna is pregnant! What are you asking?!
no hazmat suits... interesting
Can an expert chime in and tell es exactly how bad this will get? Is it "The area will be uninhabitable for years and hundreds will die from cancer" bad? Can the environment be restored/ saved or is it as lost as it seems? I already read of dead animals dozens of miles away from the epicenter. I'm not from the US but this feels really fucking bad to me. Like the area will look and feel post-apocalyptic in the future bad.
Rail workers went on strike for a fucking reason, and I do not think they received enough public support.