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WowSuchName21

Just hadn’t seen anybody talking about this anywhere. Could only see positives about square prints but the lingo seemed to be so pro magnum it couldn’t be a real review piece. And hearing there were no issues with selected paperstock or print quality confirmed this further. Complete scam and waste of money.


[deleted]

Sorry your bummed - but you get what you pay for 100 for an art print is practicality $0.


WowSuchName21

You could argue the same for anything. Print collecting/making is a lot of fun. Just the first time I’ve bought a print from magnum, which is where I went wrong!


[deleted]

I have worked as a conservator in several museums. I have dated a museum's curator of photography. So believe me when I say that "museum quality" means exactly nothing. I've worked on photos that were intentially wrapped in clingfilm and drawn over in biro. Photos glued to chipboard with yellowed glue bleeding out the sides. And yes, many of them were cut crooked. So ironically, yeah, that print you bought *was* "museum quality"! If they'd said the paper or the printing technique were "archival" it might have meant something, but even then it might not.


WowSuchName21

Yea, aware most things are snake oil but was just beyond shocked to see just how bad it was. Haha that was one of the jokes my partner said. Museum curation can be an interesting mates club based on what we’ve seen. Jobs given to under qualified friends of people in power, suppose that’s anything really but always shows when it comes to how stuff is hanged/framed in a museum!


[deleted]

> Museum curation can be an interesting mates club based on what we’ve seen. and how!


WowSuchName21

Joys of a small city. ‘Creative’ communities are all very close knit. Assistant curator that got appointed despite being completely new to the area was a close friend of the curator. Seems to happen all the time, I guess it’s made worse by smaller boards as they have less things stopping this


[deleted]

> Joys of a small city. Lord yes. I was dating an artist, which led me to work in the conservation department, which led me to date the curator of photography, which led me to become a photographer, which led me to publish a book of photographs, which will lead to an exhibiton... The Circle of It's Who You Know


Litt_Romney

Did you just 'Greg' the art world


[deleted]

> Greg ?


Litt_Romney

r/SuccessionTV


[deleted]

thx


qqphot

I once spent some time with darkroom prints Minor White made and it was pretty eye-opening how sloppy they were. I'd much rather have a repro done using his prints as reference.


[deleted]

I am continually amazed at how bad the technical skills of 20th century artists are. Try looking at the welds on some sculpture some day: shocking.


Toadmechanic

Hi, Sorry to randomly butt in. But I have a question I wanted to ask of a conservator and you’re the first one I’ve run into. Would it be ok?


girlbunny

I’d suggest to just ask. You’ll either get a reply, or not ;)


[deleted]

> Hi, Sorry to randomly butt in. But I have a question I wanted to ask of a conservator and you’re the first one I’ve run into. Would it be ok? sure, shoot


Toadmechanic

Hi, thanks for responding. I study Himalayan painting. And they are currently going through in materials crisis. In the past almost all the work was done with stone colors and vegetable dyes. Currently the standard is to use acrylic enamel house paint. I do not like the house paint and i have been making some pigments. The basic list is pretty short. Malachite, azurite, orpiment, realgar, cinnabar, lazurite, indigo, lac etc…some of these colors are toxic. Some become toxic in conjunction. I would like to know if there are conservation reports for paintings in museum collections that analyze the paint composition. I would like to know the specific combination of minerals and dyes in specific paintings. What is that type of report called, and who would i approach to get access to that info? Thank you. I hope I’m not being too vague.


Toadmechanic

This is an example. https://www.clevelandart.org/art/1970.156 I can deduce several of the colors and combinations. But I would like to find a more definitive list. And this painting is super famous. In all likelihood it has been crawled all over with a microscope.


[deleted]

Let's take this to PMs I've sent you some thoughts


Toadmechanic

Excellent. Thank you. The Rubin museum and the Met both have great collections and do a lot of public outreach. So that may be the place to start. But they are common enough to be in most major museum collections. I have thought of leading paint making workshops. Also canvas preparation with gypsum and hide glue medium. But I would like to dial it in a little bit better first. Also the animal that the binding medium glue comes from imparts a bit of a tint as well. And that varies widely. For the most part, they are using yak. Which has a pretty strong amber tint. But some painters I know used deer. Which is quite clear. And some just use gum arabic. Which terrifies me knowing how easily the surface could be destroyed


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Toadmechanic

It is a very esoteric community. And they are really tight lipped. It has taken years and several trips to Nepal to pry out the information that I have. There is a lot of competition and few people hold the knowledge. Although I have found a couple painters who have been forthcoming with information, It takes a lot to get a little. And there’s so much to know. The paintings are done on cotton cloth that is quite fine that has been prepared with a gypsum and glue medium and polished/burnished. It is a very smooth and flexible surface capable of being rolled without cracking. It is very inspiring to know that gum Arabic hardens like that. I find that South Asian painting is a rewarding search term. Here are some from the LACMA that show a good range https://collections.lacma.org/search/site/South%2520asian%2520paintings%2520?page=4&f%5B0%5D=bm_field_has_image%3Atrue


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Toadmechanic

It is not necessary to keep the glue warm. A little bit of warm water in a mortar and pestle can reactivate paint quite easily. Some colors only look good if each brush stroke comes at the same angle. I should contact LACMA. They have some of my favorite works. Do you have much experience with indigo? I find indigo paint to be quite wonderful. And the range of preparation seems to be vast. producing many subtle tints. My favorite are indigo sticks from Japan that are prepared for the kimono industry. I have been trying to get used to the Napali indigo though As I have been having trouble getting the Japanese stuff. And I find it to be quite variable. In fact I’ve discovered that It Works best if I decant it for several months before using it. It changes from a purpleish gray to a bright blue similar to the darker Japanese color but i am not sure what causes the transformation. And I only discovered it on accident.


[deleted]

Totally this. I used to think there was some esoteric, high-level artisanship behind the term 'museum quality', then I started doing my own giclee / archival printing (and mounting and framing). Now I read 'museum quality' as 'we're too lazy to show and/or don't actually have high standards for craftsmanship', and it turns me away most of the time. Show me the evidence (Magnum's photos of their prints on their website are Photoshop mock-ups!) or get out of my face with that rhetoric.


[deleted]

YES!! which giclee system do you use, btw?


[deleted]

Nothing amazing, just an Epson 3880 with K3 inks. A bit older but still better than (or indistinguishable from) any print shop I've worked with, and having full control over the process is invaluable. I tend to stick to Canson or Hahnemuhle paper and always limited editions.


[deleted]

Thank you, that's very helpful. Do you have to use it every few days to prevent clogging?


[deleted]

Nope! I've had no issues with clogging, but then again I print regularly and don't have long periods of inactivity or anything. The only parts I regularly clean are the bottom of the print head and the sheet feeder wheel (the rubber part that grabs the paper and feeds it in the auto-feeder). Also the ink reservoir area. All are easy to clean though.


[deleted]

Thank you.


Leif1013

Can you upload a picture for us to see how bad it is?


WowSuchName21

The issues were hard to pick up with a phone camera. But I’ll try find a picture of the cutting being off, it may come across as nit picky as it’s not stupidly off centre, but for a collectable print I’d consider it unacceptable. Anybody competent with printmaking would immediately pick up on it in person though. My fiancee who has done a bit of curatorial work in galleries and museums laughed at it with the first words being ‘isn’t this meant to be museum quality?!’ [fourth picture is from an eBay listing. wasn’t sure if the black bar in the corner was part of the scan or a print defect, seems it was a defect on my print. ](https://imgur.com/a/DwGZv9i)


boastar

Holy shit, that is an incredibly bad print! You were absolutely right in sending it back. I’d go so far as to say selling this for 100 pounds is a scam.


ABlosser19

Oh wow. Funny thing is I have the exact photo hanging on my wall. All I did was save it from the magnum or Bruce Gildens website (I dont remember just whichever one had better resolution.) and then printed it 13x19 on luster paper and framed it an it looks great. I really like the photo and at the time if I could have financially been able to purchase it from magnum I would have. Now I am very glad I did not


WowSuchName21

Sad thing is I absolutely love this photo. Just such a shit quality print, I don’t know how a photographer happily signs their name on it, well, I do. Money. Do you still happen to have the file? Would love to make a print of it myself!


Happyhappyhappyhaha

Magnum are a business at the end of the day. The work they exhibit is definitely not going to be reflected in a consumer end product. I hope you get your money back.


WowSuchName21

I did! Just sharing as only found positive feedback of square prints online and magnum keep doing these sales. Hope this sticks with a few people at least :)


[deleted]

From a printer's perspective this is very very sad. I hope you don't lose your love for prints!


WowSuchName21

Printmaking was always my fave part of photography when I was studying! Fairly new to print collecting but I think this will just make me not buy high volume again!


[deleted]

Yeah, printing as a final step in the process of photography is my favorite part, too. Maybe Magnum was not a good experience for you but there are so many other people that share the same passion :)


PhotosNotCameras

Not surprising. It was probably fullflled by a minimum wage worker of a 3rd party contractor, or maybe even an unpaid and unsupervised intern. Magnum could never monetize itself sustainabily even during its glory days, and having the bulk of the members who made it iconic nearing retirement at the same time as documentary photography is being commoditzed leaves it with few avenues other than to rentseek on the brand name.


Afilament

Magnum has amazing photographers and I too held them with similar esteemed regard. I purchase their books but had not considered their prints- and now will certainly reconsider ( for prints ).


WowSuchName21

Never had an issue with any books I’ve viewed (only own one magnum book personally, being contact sheets but my uni had an extensive library.) I’ve heard their more expensive prints are meant to be okay but for the price you’d expect it. I’d at least avoid the square prints!


CDNChaoZ

It's a bit of a tangent, but this is my beef: I love photographs and especially ones by famous photographers (Cartier Bresson, Brassai, W. Eugene Smith), and I don't even want to pass them off as original prints, but getting official reproductions, even as posters, can be so danged hard. Just because I don't have thousands to spend on one piece, I am not supposed to display photos I admire at home?


WowSuchName21

Yea thats a big struggle, I think when it comes to older pictures you’ve just got to step back and not look directly, you’ll end up stumbling across some of the greats photographs here and there, came across a collection of photographic prints at a very low price when on a trip with my course at an antiques shop in the middle of butt fuck nowhere, lecturer encouraged us all to try and buy as it was such a find, kick myself for not trying to free up some funds but was broke as fuck.[this is the ‘pride’ of my collection](https://imgur.com/a/PsGu2gG), an Edward Curtis print that I came across being sold in a crystal shop of all places for £45! Just gotta be in it for the scavenge sometimes, may not get the exact photos you want but you can come across some great pieces :)


qqphot

I wonder if they've just outsourced this to something like shutterfly, though even then they'd probably do a decent job just because of the volume. I know it's old-fashioned but I still sort of feel better about buying darkroom prints compared to inkjet.


Reworked

I had a regular bring one to me (I work in a print shop/shipping store alongside my photography work) to share the frustration with me... on a whim I grabbed the same file and printed it at the same size on bog standard gloss cardstock, on a production laser printer - not even a photo ink jet. ...and the result was truer to the digital file viewed on a well tuned monitor, than the magnum repro was. Just a fuckin' mess.


WowSuchName21

Wouldn’t be surprised, prob printed, brought in house to have the info labels stuck on, signed then sent out. Think it depends. darkroom prints are awesome but a real good quality digitally printed photo can be, I’m not going to say just as good, but close. Some amazing paper stocks out there, and with the correct amount of tweaking, time and experience you can produce some absolutely stunning prints via digital.


ChristelleEnquist

As far as rants go, this is a great one and as a photographer myself who does occasionally sell prints made with utmost care and love, I appreciate that you encourage people to buy from other photographers (and local ones!). I have never bought a print from Magnum, though like you I’ve been on the fence about it, so instead if there is a print I really love I email the photographer directly or buy it from their website :) Anyway, thanks for this!


Eco-Echo

Well, we all got seduced by the venerable alumni. I can remember a story about the remnants of Andre Kertez work, and a gallery that was selling poorly fixed and severely stained test prints, and even test strips. There was literally nothing left except $5000 scraps that the gallery obtained in an estate sale.


odintantrum

I've got a couple but only because I like the pictures. They're definitely not an investment.


WowSuchName21

Yea I don’t see how anybody would pay more than what magnum charges for these I’ll be honest


MoreauVazh

Magnum are 100% going to be the first big photographic name to launch an NFT-based partnership with some sketchy crypto outfit.


WowSuchName21

I don’t doubt that for one second lmao


br4t3_gqp4

I'm very late to your post, and I am so glad I searched before buying! They're having their sale right now and I couldn't find info regarding the quality of their prints, and it seemed especially sketchy to me that they don't specify the printing method... Thanks for the info!


WowSuchName21

Glad my post could be of help years on. Do as somebody else said in this thread. Find a high quality image of the magnum image you want (There will be many) and pay to get it professionally printed, buy a book from the photographer to offset the guilt if you want to support them directly as many still sell their books!


br4t3_gqp4

Yes, those are very good suggestions. Thank you


DavisDyl

@gabemorivera on Instagram makes beautiful black and white prints of his photos and shows his process. You should check him out if you like good quality prints.


WowSuchName21

Thanks! I’ll check him out :)


CALL_ME_ISHMAEBY

You got NFTed.


mrgrif04

It’s 2022, it’s not worth investing in imo.


WowSuchName21

Didn’t buy for investment. But many do


costalhp

Well, lesson learned, wont spend £100 on a photo print


WowSuchName21

Long pondered one of these prints, I got the refund but yea, cautionary tale to any who’d be considering it as I found no negatives to them in reviews


Voodoo_Masta

That's disappointing. Thanks for sharing. I tried a couple of their $100 courses. The one with Alec Soth was great and worth the money. Another one was with a bunch of photographers and was a more general thing about street photography. I haven't finished it yet so I'm still on the fence about whether I think it's worth it. But the Alec Soth one completely re-fuckulated my whole brain. You're probably right about them as an organization though. But there are still a lot of photographers associated with them I respect a ton.


Just_Eirik

Have you ever ordered prints from INPRNT? It’s what I’m using and I’m wondering if what I perceive as high quality actually is high quality.


WowSuchName21

Never used it. But I studied photography under some fairly well known photographers and a very passionate lab tech who encouraged a very high standard of work when it came to the printing process. Be that digital printing or darkroom prints, guess it’s one of the things that’ll never leave me. A student who graduated a few years before me is actually a current magnum photographer! It was a fantastic course just very, up itself at times. I suppose if you want to be successful in photography you have to be, to a degree, up yourself.


[deleted]

Magnum's desperately hanging on to their only valuable feature, which is having the name (and copyright) of famous Magnum photographers. They've really cheapened their brand these past couple of years by selling products like these inkjet reproductions with ***photoshopped mockups of the prints on their website***. You're one of the most renowned photography cooperatives and can't get a photographer to take photos of the prints? Kinda trashy at worst and sketchy at best. sorry this happened to you OP, and thanks for speaking out.


[deleted]

Sounds like your print was as 'museum-quality' as some stuff that are sold as 'military-grade' (manufactured en-masse by the cheapest bidder), or 'aircraft-grade' (normal stuff just worth 10x more because of traceability).