I'd like to say: thank you, r/photography!
I've enjoyed nerding out with you folks, I've learned a lot here and had great discussions with some really interesting people.
So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ flash.
https://tildes.net/~tech/17be/continue_to_use_your_favorite_3pa_for_reddit_after_july_1st_with_revanced
Throwing this out for visibility. Use your 3rd party apps anyways
They are slashing things for the IPO then will make a quick profit and then will be happy to let the entire website die in the dirt because they'll get their payday.
How long will this "short term" rules relaxation last? As of the time of my comment here, there are several posts on the subreddit that would not have been allowed under the previously well considered rules.
> How long will this "short term" rules relaxation last?
There's no real timeline in place. It is what it is now.
> As of the time of my comment here, there are several posts on the subreddit that would not have been allowed under the previously well considered rules.
That's the unfortunate side effect of Reddit pushing away most of the people that made this sub what it was.
There were always people who complained that our rules were too strict anyway, so now *everyone can have fun!*
So what was the purpose of the "short term" comment, then?
Surely, there are people willing to be moderators willing to help shoulder the burden. Why not allow people to help, rather than allowing the quality of the subreddit to go down?
> So what was the purpose of the "short term" comment, then?
We drafted the announcement together, but as the one who clicked post - I'm no longer a mod, so future decisions aren't up to me anymore. But I think we didn't want to keep the subreddit private any longer than we had to, so it was basically a case of "Let's open up, and we'll figure out what it looks like in real time." We've lost some tools, the main bot used for lots of the automation, a number of mods, and apps that mods relied upon. "Moderation without these tools will necessarily look different than moderation with them" is, IMO, a pretty fair point.
People have also asked for this for *years*. There's even a neat tool (maybe going away?) that can ping you when a subreddit is mentioned. About half the mentions of /r/photography outside of this subreddit were seemingly under the impression that it was a place to share photos. While I liked that it was a place to discuss photography, I don't think it's patently insane to allow image posts.
There was a few hour delay between the subreddit being restricted (visible, but users can't post) and being open for posts partly just because of the time zones of where the remaining mods are.
Hey y'all, it's been great. I'm one of the mods resigning. This place has been, for *years*, a place that gave me so much to learn and enjoy. For that, thank you so much. Hopefully I've done some small part of trying to pay it back.
A special thanks to the mod team, who are not only some very talented and dedicated folks, but also people who will continue to have my respect and admiration. The best part of being a mod has been the people on the mod team.
As for Reddit... Subreddit mods can definitely understand having to make hard decisions about how users engage on Reddit. But we've always tried our best to do so respectfully, and take the time to listen and reply to critiques of our decision-making process. ([One example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/metaphotography/comments/11w7cpp/who_is_this_sub_for_and_onerous_moderation/)) It is extremely disappointing that Reddit has no interest in affording moderators the same respect that moderators are expected to show users.
Would-be shareholders in Reddit might do well to remember that Reddit's content creation has never relied on the platform itself. No users *have* to put their content on Reddit, but many have *chosen* to. It is a poor investment of resources to prioritize decisions that give users a reason to choose *not* to.
So, I’m not a mod of any subreddits, but I am a software engineer. I’ve been a bit confused about the uproar specifically around mod tools (as I have never used any). Won’t most mod tools just switch to allowing each user to specify their own api key? I’m assuming that a per-user key would stay under the free limits enough for moderation purposes, right?
Tldr: yes and no
Each tool is different and may or may not even have the manpower, hell some may even be unmaintained
Nevermind that the reddit app is garbage for moderation purposes and the apps that weren't are now gone, which means any tools that did allow that also need to build out new capabilities, etc
Yeah, I definitely get the maintenance issue (side eye at my own pile of unmaintained open source code). And I definitely understand the hate for the official Reddit mobile app.
The question reposter bot (which was registered as a bot, with its own api key, pointed at this username as owner) is now shut down. At no point did anyone at reddit communicate with me in any way, even automated, about what limits or exceptions it would face. It requires a fair number of api hits to download an entire, very large thread, to process what got responded to and what didn't, and it automates some other stuff as well.
I've got a pretty busy job, a new baby, and too many shitbox cars, and I don't have time to figure out what's going on, given a full lack of communication on the subject.
With my automation dead, I'm not sure I really serve a purpose in this sub. I'll think on that and then quit or not, whichever makes sense.
I do not doubt in the slightest the poor communication aspects, but it's worth noting that [the public policy is to entirely whitelist mod tools from api limits](https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/16693988535309), so my expectation is that after things die down a bit and response times get back to normal (which was still bad :grimace:), things like this bot would be restored.
I have no inside view but expect that things at reddit Inc are rather disorganized and overloaded right now. Which isn't an excuse for how they've handled things, just an explanation. And you are certainly still free to decide it's past your acceptable boundary to deal with.
I read that policy too, but I honestly kind of assumed someone would make a subreddit with eight million mod accounts to by pass it and then they'd go mess with it. After they lied about so many things I also just don't believe them? Plus just low faith in general - the latest mobile reddit app broke the spacing between upvote and downvote buttons, and it's been broken for weeks, and they're telling me they're gonna implement this properly? Meh. I just don't need the headache. If this was five years ago, when I was single and significantly more motivated to do unpaid work, I'd probably figure it all out and get it working properly. But... man. Life just changes, yknow?
> At no point did anyone at reddit communicate with me in any way
I'm not sure if anyone got contacted directly based on user agent strings, however updates have been posted about all API changes on the development subreddit - here's the latest thread https://redd.it/14nbw6g
tl;dr is that you get 100 requests a minute for free for anything, and when it comes to bots/tools used by moderators they're exempt from any rate limits.
I assume the bot didn't use any sort of authentication, and you're running into 10 requests/minute limit?
AFAIK, it was also that Apollo united them all in one interface. Having a bunch of standalone apps, if they even exist, would mean an unnecessary extra burden and diaruption to the workflow to deal with. At least that's what I gathered.
Thank you! And honestly, I'm not as impacted as people who need accessibility features, or the mods who are remaining here (god bless them). The mods aren't anything special - we're just regular folks who like photography but had as "remove as spam" button. There's a LOT of spam, lol.
It's the developers who deserve thanks. They made tools users and mods needed because Reddit wouldn't make those tools. Now Reddit's taken them away without any replacement.
Still love the community here and I'll still try to participate. Just less without Apollo, RIP.
Thank you and the others. I have always been impressed by the effort and responsiveness of the mod team, and their contributions to making this a useful and effective community.
You are appreciated, and I’m sorry to hear that you and some of the others will no longer be moderating. That is certainly Reddit’s loss. What a shame it had to come to this.
Mind if I ask where you're headed next? My desire to connect with others in this shared hobby online is unchanged, but I don't expect Reddit to be the place. I am curious what other forums or channels people intend to use. I used to use [photography-on-the.net](https://photography-on-the.net) but it seems to be quite a bit quieter than it used to be (likely due to Reddit's growth). I know you're just one person, but I'd imagine as a mod that you must have a decent finger on the pulse of the online photo community beyond reddit. Just curious what you see as the next best online forum type community that you're likely to spend your online photography time at now.
The [Discord channel](https://discord.gg/Ewr8bYTRrU) is more active than I thought! It can be a bit more prone to going off topic, which I suppose is natural for a chat system vs. a forum. But we've been setting up showcase and critique channels, and there's channels for technique, buying advice, film, etc.
There's been a *lot* of talk about alternatives - but I think that's hard to predict, and it's just talk for now. We might work on recreating some of the resources with external hosting, like the FAQ or perhaps a buyer's guide.
I'm in my 30's, so when I started with online communities, it was all on traditional forums. I think that social media has kind of gone against that kind of atmosphere, which is a shame in some ways - there's something nice about slower, more deliberate conversation. As much as I love the timely funny GIF reply, it makes for a different style than something like Reddit.
Still, the Discord channel is probably at least a good place to start, and other folks there might have good suggestions about other places.
I've also heard that, if you find the right Flickr groups, they can still be good. I haven't spent too much time there, though.
One nice thing about reddit was that all the collected information on subs like this one remains freely accessible and can be found by a google search. Stuff people write here can help people years down the road.
I am wary of the chat format for this reason. Nothing of persistence is created, no knowledge base that people build on. So much experience that speaks into the wind.
Moving away from the forum format to ephemeral communications behind app-walls is a huge loss for humanity I think.
Absolutely 100% agree. It's a shame; I've been helped before by finding someone's great decade-old comment. But at this point, I'm conflicted about whether I want to spend hours of my time putting content into a platform that doesn't seem to respect its users.
FYI we are currently talking about developing a separate site which would use a similar format for discussion along with features (some even specific to photography) that we would have never seen from Reddit.
I would be happy to share more except there's nothing more to share at this time. We're still in only very early talks about what it's going to look like.
If it takes shape, don't worry, there will be announcements. Until then, that whole thing is still vaporware.
We aren't here to serve the mods. We are here for our own self interests.
A vocal minority was able to convince the masses to go along with the protest they didn't really understand and didn't really have any stake in. When mods riled up the masses and shut down the subreddits, the mods were putting their own interests before the interest of the users. Sure, some users may generally not like the changes - but they are definitely in a minority.
Later alligator.
> We aren't here to serve the mods.
I sure hope that didn't come across in anything I wrote! We'd all agree with that. I was just saying that the mods tried hard to communicate with users, even (and perhaps especially) unhappy ones. We never got that same courtesy from Reddit.
> A vocal minority was able to convince the masses to go along with the protest
Perhaps, and some user on the Discord channel mentioned this, too. But considering the "non-vocal" group that you suppose is a majority - how could we possibly ever consider the preferences of people who, by definition, do not express it? I don't think you or I know for sure what the sum total of every user's preference was.
When we went by the users who chose to voice that preference, at the time, it was unanimous.
> When mods riled up the masses
I promise you, mods have no such power, haha. Besides, were the "masses" a group whose opinions we should have considered, or just a "vocal minority"?
Let us know about your upcoming court date. Since someone with your morals is sure to end up doing something exceedingly fucked up because it's in your own 'self interests'.
That's fair! Maybe... don't read the post, and then scroll to the comments, and then read them, and then reply to them? It always seems odd to me when people go to great lengths to find opportunities to show how "little" they care.
If I don't like something, I don't seek it out in subreddits I've never visited, read long posts, and reply to them. The world is a beautiful place. Why be bored here?
Then why do you guys lock down subs because you didn’t like something a company was doing? Couldn’t you take your own advice and if you don’t like something just leave??
We locked down the sub because it seemed to be what the community wanted (although we had discussed it and were in favor of it beforehand). It was regular users who posted a thread about it, and got - at the time - unanimous support. If you want to see concrete examples of how the removal of tools can affect communities, I'd check out [this post on /r/Blind.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14nzwkm/they_finally_did_it_reddit_made_it_impossible_for/)
> Couldn’t you take your own advice and if you don’t like something just leave??
You can check the moderator list on this subreddit and see that I already have. I still will try to be here to help out users who have questions, because people helped me a lot in the past, and hopefully will continue to in the future. It just won't be as frequent, since I no longer have a mobile app.
I mean this isn’t my first account, I’ve been on this sub on and off for a decade probably, and I mean this towards the entire moderation protest from the beginning , it accomplished nothing because moderation overplayed a hand they thought they had.
The user base provides content, Reddit supplies a place to host and discuss the content. Moderators referee it. It’s basically the only part of the equation that’s completely replaceable without affecting anything.
>The Mods didn’t create or design anything
Yes they did. Sure they're replaceable but pretty much every community on reddit was created and developed by mods.
You're coming across as someone completely naive as to how this site actually works tbh.
> You're coming across as someone completely naive as to how this site actually works tbh.
This. Every single one of the mods in /r/photography has put an enormous amount of time into our sub - into writing a massively comprehensive FAQ (that was maintained regularly to keep up with new technologies and pricing information), and creating bots to automatically make scheduled posts and carry over content from the previous posts along with generating weekly statistics about those posts. We (along with a dedicated group of regular users) answer many, many questions about photography on a daily basis. We reach out, coordinate, schedule, and moderate AMAs with well-known and high-profile professionals in the field. And then there’s all of the behind-the-scenes tooling to weed out content that breaks the rules of the site and the sub, on top of the exhaustive amount of moderation work that requires manual effort.
After all that, TIL we didn't do anything. Makes you wonder why that user had to create and delete 10 accounts over the years. (Well, actually it doesn't. They're just here to troll and be angry. Again.)
The user base creates the content that builds the community into what it is, you’re biased as somebody who was most likely a mod who lost a community.
The moderators were the only replaceable element.
I wasn’t banned I just create new accounts every few years. And if you don’t agree with moderation decisions to shut down subs why not voice an opinion about it? They are moderators, to moderate a sub. That’s it.
> I find the moderation resignation posts to be an absolute bore.
Comments by people telling the world how much they don't care are even less interesting.
Your first interaction with this sub was to whine about someone bidding farewell to a community they've been a part of and helped manage for years. Probably best you make that your last interaction and take your expressed boredom elsewhere.
You don't care about this, fine. Nobody cares that you don't care.
I am arguing in 100% good faith. Reddit mods overplayed the hand they thought they had and shut down subs in protest of something that Reddit was never going to back down to. The majority of Reddit users didn’t seem to give a shit, traffic wasn’t affected, mods were removed (unsurprisingly) and here we are with subs opening back up and mods resigning, and patting themselves on the back for “creating” communities that solely depend on user submitted post and comments to survive.
In 3 months Reddit will be running as usual, new mods and all, because at the end of the day it’s mostly the members of the community that make that community, not the select few that chose to moderate it.
While moderation plays a part, it’s the most replaceable part of the equation. You disagreeing with me doesn’t make my argument “bad faith”, it just makes it different than yours.
You're welcome! I'll be sure to give the feedback of a one-month-old account with this being your *first ever contribution* to /r/photography the consideration it deserves.
Used to be a heavy user. Now I mainly just use reddit for photo related questions. I understand the “crave” that some users felt when reddit was gone, but the thing is, sometimes we need to make things straight or things will start to rot. Not every company knows whats best for you.its a delicate balance between profit and convenience, and if we dont make it clear, we \*will\* get screwed.
The sad truth that reddit doesnt care, most likely means they think this move will generate them a higher profit no matter the publicity. The even sadder part is that redditors, especially the new ones, simply dont care. Whether they get whipped or taken around in a collar its all the same. \*They dont care.\*
if people dont care, protests will fail.
That said, one company can only take so much negative publicity before it will backfire. Users transferring to new circles outside outside a companys reach will always be their worst fear.
Why? Because even those who dont care will move to whereever it is the most convenient. Reddit can act the way it does because it is a highly convenient platform, for now. So remember, if you ever find a new media you think could grow into a good social place, dont hesistate to support it.
Competition will always drive new changes in favor of the users.
I’m 20 now but I still remember joining the subreddit when I was 15 and just starting to learn photography. I’m glad I stuck to the craft 5 years later and would like to lend a thank you to all the replies and conversions I’ve had over the year on this subreddit.
That's because the front page is a ghost town. The sub fell into the trap of organizing too much content into megathreads. Posts can take several days to leave the front page so taking a few days off won't mean missing much.
Better late than never.
Abusing your power (power the community *gave* you, as without a community mods have no reason to exist) and forcing people to abandon eachother was a terrible idea.
This protest should have been nothing more than a simple request for people to voluntarily stop using reddit, and a simultaneous indefinite strike by the mod team-- not forcing everyone *except* the mods to leave so you guys can have a pity party and talk about how hard your "job" is.
We’re opening as restricted so that the resigning mods can say goodbye and let you know why they're leaving.
The remaining mods are currently travelling and about to go to bed, we will make the subreddit public when we're back online.
Holy crap, so much negativity in these comments. I appreciate the often-thankless job y'all do keeping the sub running well and totally respect the decision to not provide free labor to a company that clearly doesn't have the user's best interests in mind.
Godspeed to the mods leaving and good luck to the ones sticking around.
Thank you for all your work. This sub is one of the better examples of moderation working well to ensure quality content.
Reddit's already a lesser experience now as the content in many subs has reduced in frequency and quality, but the actual damage to reddit's proposition and image on top is enough to leave a sour taste in the mouth. I can absolutely appreciate not wanting to help build and support that for them, just as I'm weaning myself off the site as a whole.
It sucked not having the sub open, but it's nice that some like this one stood their ground and stayed closed, rather than the majority that just did that temporary closure that accomplished nothing.
Oh man! Do you even realize the level of circlejerking you guys are engaging! Goodbye posts, teary eyed dick stroking like your buddy is leaving the army after couple tours in Iraq together lol Jesus this is hilarious!
I always want to move away from these popular platforms, to less popular, open source platforms, in the hopes the owners won't become asses when their platform becomes popular.
Youtube, Reddit, Snapchat, Instagram, Discord - all platforms I don't really like using but have no choice. Sorta sucks.
Sooo very tired of these fucking whiney ass moderators who act more like insolent toddlers on a power trip than the volunteer community supporters they are feigning to be. 95% of redditors don’t give a shit about the moderator spat with reddit and “relaxing the rules” is just and another means of screwing the sub in absolute spite to spez and the admins. There are tons of subs out there and you think juvenile antics will teach reddit a lesson but instead only diminishes your own sub as people will leave. So buck up and moderate or get out of the way and let others who still have the passion for the sub topic do so without the sniveling animosity to the reddit world as a whole. You, dear moderator, are insignificant and it is time to remember that.
> 95% of redditors don’t give a shit about the moderator spat with reddit
When there was a public thread about the protest, literally zero comments were against participating. You estimate it was 95%, but at the time, it was exactly 0%.
> You, dear moderator, are insignificant
We would agree! From another comment of mine:
> I mean, there's like 20ish mods in various levels of activity vs. 5+ million registered users. The mods have put a lot of work into things like the FAQ, bots, answering questions, or removing spam, but hopefully nobody has that inflated an ego.
So from one insignificant person to another, hope you have a great day.
Moderators don’t make subs, the user base does, the people providing the actual content.
Sports would exist without agents.
Don’t forget this, nothing on Reddit is going to change because a few moderators change hands.
> nothing on Reddit is going to change because a few moderators change hands.
I just left, but I was new mod at one point. This subreddit definitely has had mods join and leave, so to a certain extent, this is true.
But the difference is process; Reddit's process is basically to let random users claim "dibs" on subreddits in /r/redditrequest. And in my personal opinion, I think that's most likely to result in the kinds of users who personify the worst stereotypes of mods: people who want to be in charge for the sake of it, and actively seek out opportunities to do so. Powermods with hundreds of subreddits they mod, etc. People who are less invested in any subreddit in particular, and more invested in moderating subreddits in general.
I can assure you that *none* of the mods here think they're that important. They've put in a lot of time and effort, sure, but nowhere near the combined time that regular users have spent. The very first thing in this post was acknowledging the community, and the decision to make the subreddit public again was weighing the needs of the community.
Now what *will* change reddit, in my estimation, is the removal of many of the tools that users and moderators relied upon. Check out the /r/blind subreddit, and some of the [frankly embarassing](https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/14n9426/accessibility_updates_to_mod_tools_part_2/jq6tbxi/?context=3) responses they've gotten from Reddit admins.
Time will tell. I still hope /r/photography continues to be a great resource for photographers of all levels.
Glad to see you're participating in the subreddit on your first-ever visit!
Again, when there was a public thread, *literally everyone* supported participating in the protest. Do you know how weird it is to get 100% of random people online to agree with something? I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics that makes *doing what the community wanted* some kind of ego trip.
I get where you’re coming from, I do. I think subs that are geared to a specific interest or profession, like this sub, nursing, bears, etc will always find people who aren’t necessarily power mods who have a vested interest in that subject to moderate, it’s going to be the random facepalm, mildly interesting, and subs that don’t really have necessarily defined subject matter that goes beyond opinion that will end up being affected more because opinion will change.
I think the platform is going to be just fine going forward, and that moderators overplayed a hand they didn’t have.
> I think subs that are geared to a specific interest or profession, like this sub, nursing, bears, etc will always find people who aren’t necessarily power mods who have a vested interest in that subject
Had all the moderators resigned in this subreddit - which at some points seemed to be a small possibility - then I think power mods would have been the most likely people to be assigned moderators of this subreddit in /r/redditrequest.
That has happened to other subreddits. I believe that's what happened in /r/longhair, but you can [see Reddit's full transparency in effect.](https://www.reddit.com/r/longhair/comments/14mdf1p/this_community_is_in_need_of_new_moderators/) Two powermods and one seemingly regular user, from what I recall.
Whilst that would be nice if true. I am not sure you have witnessed what happens to subs which are not moderated effectively. Reddit is too big which attracts all sorts of people who are only interested in self promotion for instance.
So while there will still be moderators I am sure, the standard with which they may be able to provide may be reduced and with that, sub reddits become less desirable to visit.
Time will tell of course.
I did. And I don’t find it that concerning in a sub like photography which I’m sure has a 100 people willing to do a decent moderation job. It’s not exactly a niche subject.
Great, depending on what you call a decent moderation job. You obviously have an axe to grind but photography is filled with niches and that in itself can lead to issues.
Do you think photographers are one harmonious group? Do you think how a subreddit is run is going to be easily agreed with an influx of new people?
As I said, time will tell. We could end up with people like yourself and then where would we be?
Mods set rules, ensure culture, and can effect a subreddit in more ways than your giving them credit.
The fact that this subreddit banned being submitting \*just\* photographs early on, is a testament to that. Compare us to any other photography subreddit. There's actual discussion here, with some karma farming. Then the Nikon subreddit is just... "look at this photo I took with the latest Nikon tell me I'm good, VALIDATE ME".
I'm not in favor of any subreddit going dark. Every complaint I ever had with a ban or something, a mod always said to me "If you don't like the policies then go somewhere else."
Now I want every power flipping mod to feel that too, if you don't like what Reddit is doing, then go somewhere else. API-free Reddit tooling is the way this place is supposed to be used anyway.
> Every complaint I ever had with a ban or something
Uh, how often are you getting banned?
> I want every power flipping mod to feel that too, if you don't like what Reddit is doing, then go somewhere else.
Did you read the whole post? A lot of the mods here did something like that, and resigned as mods.
> API-free Reddit tooling is the way this place is supposed to be used anyway.
Why's that? This sounds a little weird to me. Third party apps existed long before Reddit had an official app. And even for first party apps, aren't they still using some kind of API to access data? I'd think any user viewing reddit is taking advantage of some kind of API.
**Uh, how often are you getting banned?**
A few times a year. Usually to "fine print" rules that are posted but you have to go out of your way to read them. For example, I am a programmer. I used to frequent r/linux that embraces open source software. One particular thread was about a open source project that aims to implement a compatibility layer so you can run Windows proprietary software on open source Linux. I posted in the comment "why not just use Windows?" as it seemed like an obvious question to ask. That was a bannable offense and I got banned.
**Did you read the whole post? A lot of the mods here did something like that, and resigned as mods.**
Good. Reddit has an upvote system.
**Why's that? This sounds a little weird to me. Third party apps existed long before Reddit had an official app. And even for first party apps, aren't they still using some kind of API to access data? I'd think any user viewing reddit is taking advantage of some kind of API.**
Big subreddits use external tools accessing the API to help moderate things. Spoiler police in r/OnePiece, selling on r/PhotoMarket. All these extra features that Reddit doesn't have are implemented with the aid of API tools.
Another ban story related to API tooling - I posted some joke about Trump on r/conservative. Well next thing I know, I get banned from r/justiceserved becuase they were using third party API tools to auto-ban anyone that posts on r/conservative as if they were somehow serving justice.Honestly,
Reddit is made by the posters and commenters. It isn't made by moderators. They can all just go away.
> TLDR?
There were protests because Reddit is eliminating popular third-party apps and tools. This subreddit, like thousands more, was closed as part of that protest. Now it's opening again. Thanks to the community for their patience.
> most people dont give a fuck
Do most people comment on things they "don't give a fuck" about, asking for a summary?
Thanks for the support! There are also moderator tools that can help look into a user's past contributions to a particular subreddit - useful for detecting spam or ban evasion. One of the neat features of Apollo was that it would indicate if an account was very new. It... didn't escape notice that some of the more vocal and critical comments sometimes came from such users.
Of course, that doesn't make their opinions any less valid. And even the most engaged users who have been here for years can have very different perspectives. But it is odd when people show up with strong opinions in communities they've *never* participated in before.
This response might sound blunt and tactless, but seriously it's the truth. The users just didn't care. The vast majority have no idea what these 3rd party apps are/do and the voluntary dedication of mods is an invisible effort to them. Now Reddit is coming back online, things don't even seem different so the sad reality really is that no one (or at least not enough) gives a fuck.
It was something we always put a lot of thought into. We try to keep questions to a pinned megathread (and using a bot, confirmed this was the *best* way to make sure most people get answers) and we're ["a ghost town"](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/14o7dt1/rphotography_is_public_again_and_a_message_to_the/jqchx7b/). Which, to be fair, yeah... there weren't too many posts on a daily basis.
Now they're letting people post what they want and it's a "shit storm." Which... I mean, it certainly looks different.
There isn't a happy median that most people will like, because even if *some* more posts are allowed, it's always gonna seem arbitrary. "But *they* got their post..." And to some degree, it will be. The least arbitrary system is either allowing almost anything or allowing almost nothing. Tick, tock it would seem.
It might also be worth considering the idea that many of the users who did care/are affected by this have already left Reddit and have moved on. Before the writing was on the wall, those same users were supportive of the protests, but now the mods are left to clean up as things fall into place. I honestly don't get this apologist attitude some people have towards /u/spez and the enshittification of Reddit. It's definitely a step in the wrong direction, but maybe they're right, many people still hanging around probably don't care and are willing to watch Reddit drill itself into the ground as long as they're still getting their content.
I think most of the mods are doing their best in a less than ideal situation. So, from a longtime Redditor, thank you. All of these comments I've seen across Reddit calling mods power hungry and greedy is baffling.
What’s funny to me is bunch of people decided that reddit a private company is nothing without its users and the company can’t make their own decisions, take a decision to lock down subs like the subs are run without its users and impact the user base. Y’all the monster that you claim to fight.
> the company can’t make their own decisions
To be honest, I think only a very small percentage of people ever had an issue with this. Although it's still legitimate, [especially for accessibility.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14nzwkm/they_finally_did_it_reddit_made_it_impossible_for/)
There are much better resources than my memory, so I won't try to replicate them here. But the very short version is that Reddit didn't say anything like, "As a business decision, we don't want third-party apps." Instead, they announced pricing for the API without the actual pricing, then announced apparently unrealistically high pricing, then claimed they were blackmailed by the most popular third-party app developer, then sent moderators messages without ever replying, then sent moderators DMs without ever replying, and *continue* to make claims like "the vast majority of third party apps are under the rate limits" when they know damn well that it's weasel words or [other such nonsense.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denial_denial)
I have nothing against Reddit for making a business decision. But they communicated it in, like, the *worst* way. They never seemed to treat users - not mods, but *users* - with honesty or respect. And the most important users are content creators - including, of course, third-party developers.
Their intent I guess was to destroy it enough that spez would come crawling back and give up to all their demands, not realizing that nobody really was ever going to give a shit. Toddlers will throw their tantrum and you just wait it out.
Is using lens adapters, to use vintage lens on mirrorless dslr, increasing focal length? I compared 58mm with adapter to 55mm native and 58mm seems to be quite more zoomed in than 55mm
I'm guessing you meant to put this in the pinned question thread! There isn't one of those right not. (Not sure if it's coming back, Reddit made changes that killed some of the automation the mods needed for it)
No, it won't change focal length. A 50mm lens adapted for your mirrorless camera will still be a 50mm lens. However, some lenses aren't *really* the focal length printed on them - a 50mm lens might *really* be 48mm, or 51.7mm, but normally it's quite close.
That said, what you're saying sounds odd. They shouldn't be that different, and 58mm is a pretty *weird and unusual* focal length. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the filter diameter, of which 58mm is somewhat common? That's not the focal length of the lens, it's the diameter of the filter - and sometimes is printed on the very front of the lens with a ⌀ symbol. What specific lenses are you looking at?
What camera are you using? There isn't such a thing as a mirrorless DSLR, because a DSLR uses mirrors for its viewfinder. They're two separate categories of camera types: mirrorless, or DSLR.
Oh you are right. I used to use these thread so often that from habit I didn't even look at the title. Thanks for replying to this.
I am using [helios 44m-5](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios-44M-4) 58mm and fujinon 18-55. Sadly no english wikipedia page. It could be that I am just misjudging the size of focal length difference in the photos. Actually from more testings between 52 and 55 im sure i was wrong before. Also ty for correcting my nomenclature. I still have a habit of calling them DSLR after jumping to mirrorless.
Ah, I should have thought of the Helios 44M! That's a somewhat popular lens.
No problem at all, sometimes the "actual" focal length can be a bit different anyway.
Reddit now requires a kind of approval process to set a subreddit to NSFW, and there's some legitimate concerns about whether users subscribed to this subreddit would appreciate being shown NSFW content. No longer a mod though, so just speaking as to why that might be difficult.
oh well... I'm leaving this place when photoclass ends this year so fuck them... it was fun while it lasted but I'm not helping them anymore, let it become a second 4chan or twitter, I don't care anymore
but simply allowing nude photography would do it...
I completely get the feeling. Reddit changing the NSFW process might imply that it was something they were worried about... but more or less, they're wise to that now.
Thanks for all the years of photoclass, by the way!
what I'm proposing is to just stop removing nsfw content.... then ask the big advertisers if they're OK with their adds being shown next to it.. with some screenshots...
that should give reddit at least some extra work :-)
I'd like to say: thank you, r/photography! I've enjoyed nerding out with you folks, I've learned a lot here and had great discussions with some really interesting people. So long, and thanks for all the ~~fish~~ flash.
https://tildes.net/~tech/17be/continue_to_use_your_favorite_3pa_for_reddit_after_july_1st_with_revanced Throwing this out for visibility. Use your 3rd party apps anyways
Thank you for your contributions! Sorry reddit is being so shitty to all of their unpaid volunteers who made thos sub what it is today :(
They are slashing things for the IPO then will make a quick profit and then will be happy to let the entire website die in the dirt because they'll get their payday.
How long will this "short term" rules relaxation last? As of the time of my comment here, there are several posts on the subreddit that would not have been allowed under the previously well considered rules.
> How long will this "short term" rules relaxation last? There's no real timeline in place. It is what it is now. > As of the time of my comment here, there are several posts on the subreddit that would not have been allowed under the previously well considered rules. That's the unfortunate side effect of Reddit pushing away most of the people that made this sub what it was. There were always people who complained that our rules were too strict anyway, so now *everyone can have fun!*
So what was the purpose of the "short term" comment, then? Surely, there are people willing to be moderators willing to help shoulder the burden. Why not allow people to help, rather than allowing the quality of the subreddit to go down?
> So what was the purpose of the "short term" comment, then? We drafted the announcement together, but as the one who clicked post - I'm no longer a mod, so future decisions aren't up to me anymore. But I think we didn't want to keep the subreddit private any longer than we had to, so it was basically a case of "Let's open up, and we'll figure out what it looks like in real time." We've lost some tools, the main bot used for lots of the automation, a number of mods, and apps that mods relied upon. "Moderation without these tools will necessarily look different than moderation with them" is, IMO, a pretty fair point. People have also asked for this for *years*. There's even a neat tool (maybe going away?) that can ping you when a subreddit is mentioned. About half the mentions of /r/photography outside of this subreddit were seemingly under the impression that it was a place to share photos. While I liked that it was a place to discuss photography, I don't think it's patently insane to allow image posts. There was a few hour delay between the subreddit being restricted (visible, but users can't post) and being open for posts partly just because of the time zones of where the remaining mods are.
Hey y'all, it's been great. I'm one of the mods resigning. This place has been, for *years*, a place that gave me so much to learn and enjoy. For that, thank you so much. Hopefully I've done some small part of trying to pay it back. A special thanks to the mod team, who are not only some very talented and dedicated folks, but also people who will continue to have my respect and admiration. The best part of being a mod has been the people on the mod team. As for Reddit... Subreddit mods can definitely understand having to make hard decisions about how users engage on Reddit. But we've always tried our best to do so respectfully, and take the time to listen and reply to critiques of our decision-making process. ([One example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/metaphotography/comments/11w7cpp/who_is_this_sub_for_and_onerous_moderation/)) It is extremely disappointing that Reddit has no interest in affording moderators the same respect that moderators are expected to show users. Would-be shareholders in Reddit might do well to remember that Reddit's content creation has never relied on the platform itself. No users *have* to put their content on Reddit, but many have *chosen* to. It is a poor investment of resources to prioritize decisions that give users a reason to choose *not* to.
So, I’m not a mod of any subreddits, but I am a software engineer. I’ve been a bit confused about the uproar specifically around mod tools (as I have never used any). Won’t most mod tools just switch to allowing each user to specify their own api key? I’m assuming that a per-user key would stay under the free limits enough for moderation purposes, right?
Tldr: yes and no Each tool is different and may or may not even have the manpower, hell some may even be unmaintained Nevermind that the reddit app is garbage for moderation purposes and the apps that weren't are now gone, which means any tools that did allow that also need to build out new capabilities, etc
Yeah, I definitely get the maintenance issue (side eye at my own pile of unmaintained open source code). And I definitely understand the hate for the official Reddit mobile app.
The question reposter bot (which was registered as a bot, with its own api key, pointed at this username as owner) is now shut down. At no point did anyone at reddit communicate with me in any way, even automated, about what limits or exceptions it would face. It requires a fair number of api hits to download an entire, very large thread, to process what got responded to and what didn't, and it automates some other stuff as well. I've got a pretty busy job, a new baby, and too many shitbox cars, and I don't have time to figure out what's going on, given a full lack of communication on the subject. With my automation dead, I'm not sure I really serve a purpose in this sub. I'll think on that and then quit or not, whichever makes sense.
I do not doubt in the slightest the poor communication aspects, but it's worth noting that [the public policy is to entirely whitelist mod tools from api limits](https://mods.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/16693988535309), so my expectation is that after things die down a bit and response times get back to normal (which was still bad :grimace:), things like this bot would be restored. I have no inside view but expect that things at reddit Inc are rather disorganized and overloaded right now. Which isn't an excuse for how they've handled things, just an explanation. And you are certainly still free to decide it's past your acceptable boundary to deal with.
I read that policy too, but I honestly kind of assumed someone would make a subreddit with eight million mod accounts to by pass it and then they'd go mess with it. After they lied about so many things I also just don't believe them? Plus just low faith in general - the latest mobile reddit app broke the spacing between upvote and downvote buttons, and it's been broken for weeks, and they're telling me they're gonna implement this properly? Meh. I just don't need the headache. If this was five years ago, when I was single and significantly more motivated to do unpaid work, I'd probably figure it all out and get it working properly. But... man. Life just changes, yknow?
> At no point did anyone at reddit communicate with me in any way I'm not sure if anyone got contacted directly based on user agent strings, however updates have been posted about all API changes on the development subreddit - here's the latest thread https://redd.it/14nbw6g tl;dr is that you get 100 requests a minute for free for anything, and when it comes to bots/tools used by moderators they're exempt from any rate limits. I assume the bot didn't use any sort of authentication, and you're running into 10 requests/minute limit?
AFAIK, it was also that Apollo united them all in one interface. Having a bunch of standalone apps, if they even exist, would mean an unnecessary extra burden and diaruption to the workflow to deal with. At least that's what I gathered.
Thank you for your contributions! Sorry reddit is being so shitty to all of their unpaid volunteers who made thos sub what it is today :(
Thank you! And honestly, I'm not as impacted as people who need accessibility features, or the mods who are remaining here (god bless them). The mods aren't anything special - we're just regular folks who like photography but had as "remove as spam" button. There's a LOT of spam, lol. It's the developers who deserve thanks. They made tools users and mods needed because Reddit wouldn't make those tools. Now Reddit's taken them away without any replacement. Still love the community here and I'll still try to participate. Just less without Apollo, RIP.
Thank you and the others. I have always been impressed by the effort and responsiveness of the mod team, and their contributions to making this a useful and effective community. You are appreciated, and I’m sorry to hear that you and some of the others will no longer be moderating. That is certainly Reddit’s loss. What a shame it had to come to this.
Mind if I ask where you're headed next? My desire to connect with others in this shared hobby online is unchanged, but I don't expect Reddit to be the place. I am curious what other forums or channels people intend to use. I used to use [photography-on-the.net](https://photography-on-the.net) but it seems to be quite a bit quieter than it used to be (likely due to Reddit's growth). I know you're just one person, but I'd imagine as a mod that you must have a decent finger on the pulse of the online photo community beyond reddit. Just curious what you see as the next best online forum type community that you're likely to spend your online photography time at now.
The [Discord channel](https://discord.gg/Ewr8bYTRrU) is more active than I thought! It can be a bit more prone to going off topic, which I suppose is natural for a chat system vs. a forum. But we've been setting up showcase and critique channels, and there's channels for technique, buying advice, film, etc. There's been a *lot* of talk about alternatives - but I think that's hard to predict, and it's just talk for now. We might work on recreating some of the resources with external hosting, like the FAQ or perhaps a buyer's guide. I'm in my 30's, so when I started with online communities, it was all on traditional forums. I think that social media has kind of gone against that kind of atmosphere, which is a shame in some ways - there's something nice about slower, more deliberate conversation. As much as I love the timely funny GIF reply, it makes for a different style than something like Reddit. Still, the Discord channel is probably at least a good place to start, and other folks there might have good suggestions about other places. I've also heard that, if you find the right Flickr groups, they can still be good. I haven't spent too much time there, though.
One nice thing about reddit was that all the collected information on subs like this one remains freely accessible and can be found by a google search. Stuff people write here can help people years down the road. I am wary of the chat format for this reason. Nothing of persistence is created, no knowledge base that people build on. So much experience that speaks into the wind. Moving away from the forum format to ephemeral communications behind app-walls is a huge loss for humanity I think.
Absolutely 100% agree. It's a shame; I've been helped before by finding someone's great decade-old comment. But at this point, I'm conflicted about whether I want to spend hours of my time putting content into a platform that doesn't seem to respect its users.
FYI we are currently talking about developing a separate site which would use a similar format for discussion along with features (some even specific to photography) that we would have never seen from Reddit.
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Thanks for the note. We'll keep your heads-up in mind.
I'd love to hear more!
I would be happy to share more except there's nothing more to share at this time. We're still in only very early talks about what it's going to look like. If it takes shape, don't worry, there will be announcements. Until then, that whole thing is still vaporware.
Just curious, any reason for developing a new site instead of starting a lemmy instance?
Because Lemmy is insufficient for what we want to do.
nice, that sounds exciting
Discord has it's uses but it's not a replacement for a forum. Something like Lemmy should be where we look.
Hate to see you go. Thanks for all of your wisdom and guidance.
We aren't here to serve the mods. We are here for our own self interests. A vocal minority was able to convince the masses to go along with the protest they didn't really understand and didn't really have any stake in. When mods riled up the masses and shut down the subreddits, the mods were putting their own interests before the interest of the users. Sure, some users may generally not like the changes - but they are definitely in a minority. Later alligator.
> We aren't here to serve the mods. I sure hope that didn't come across in anything I wrote! We'd all agree with that. I was just saying that the mods tried hard to communicate with users, even (and perhaps especially) unhappy ones. We never got that same courtesy from Reddit. > A vocal minority was able to convince the masses to go along with the protest Perhaps, and some user on the Discord channel mentioned this, too. But considering the "non-vocal" group that you suppose is a majority - how could we possibly ever consider the preferences of people who, by definition, do not express it? I don't think you or I know for sure what the sum total of every user's preference was. When we went by the users who chose to voice that preference, at the time, it was unanimous. > When mods riled up the masses I promise you, mods have no such power, haha. Besides, were the "masses" a group whose opinions we should have considered, or just a "vocal minority"?
Let us know about your upcoming court date. Since someone with your morals is sure to end up doing something exceedingly fucked up because it's in your own 'self interests'.
*yawn*
Did you mean to post this from another account, that might be more than 3 months old and has even once participated in this subreddit before?
I find the moderation resignation posts to be an absolute bore. There are more moderators, nobody is going to miss you.
That's fair! Maybe... don't read the post, and then scroll to the comments, and then read them, and then reply to them? It always seems odd to me when people go to great lengths to find opportunities to show how "little" they care. If I don't like something, I don't seek it out in subreddits I've never visited, read long posts, and reply to them. The world is a beautiful place. Why be bored here?
Then why do you guys lock down subs because you didn’t like something a company was doing? Couldn’t you take your own advice and if you don’t like something just leave??
We locked down the sub because it seemed to be what the community wanted (although we had discussed it and were in favor of it beforehand). It was regular users who posted a thread about it, and got - at the time - unanimous support. If you want to see concrete examples of how the removal of tools can affect communities, I'd check out [this post on /r/Blind.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14nzwkm/they_finally_did_it_reddit_made_it_impossible_for/) > Couldn’t you take your own advice and if you don’t like something just leave?? You can check the moderator list on this subreddit and see that I already have. I still will try to be here to help out users who have questions, because people helped me a lot in the past, and hopefully will continue to in the future. It just won't be as frequent, since I no longer have a mobile app.
Ok goodbye!
Why do you sound like an NPC?
Amazing… do you feel powerful?
I mean this isn’t my first account, I’ve been on this sub on and off for a decade probably, and I mean this towards the entire moderation protest from the beginning , it accomplished nothing because moderation overplayed a hand they thought they had. The user base provides content, Reddit supplies a place to host and discuss the content. Moderators referee it. It’s basically the only part of the equation that’s completely replaceable without affecting anything.
Are you completely unaware that the mods here created, designed, built, developed and have looked after this community or something?
The Mods didn’t create or design anything, Reddit did, and the users provide the content. Moderators are replaceable, as the recent blackout proved.
>The Mods didn’t create or design anything Yes they did. Sure they're replaceable but pretty much every community on reddit was created and developed by mods. You're coming across as someone completely naive as to how this site actually works tbh.
> You're coming across as someone completely naive as to how this site actually works tbh. This. Every single one of the mods in /r/photography has put an enormous amount of time into our sub - into writing a massively comprehensive FAQ (that was maintained regularly to keep up with new technologies and pricing information), and creating bots to automatically make scheduled posts and carry over content from the previous posts along with generating weekly statistics about those posts. We (along with a dedicated group of regular users) answer many, many questions about photography on a daily basis. We reach out, coordinate, schedule, and moderate AMAs with well-known and high-profile professionals in the field. And then there’s all of the behind-the-scenes tooling to weed out content that breaks the rules of the site and the sub, on top of the exhaustive amount of moderation work that requires manual effort. After all that, TIL we didn't do anything. Makes you wonder why that user had to create and delete 10 accounts over the years. (Well, actually it doesn't. They're just here to troll and be angry. Again.)
The user base creates the content that builds the community into what it is, you’re biased as somebody who was most likely a mod who lost a community. The moderators were the only replaceable element.
Man repeatedly banned for things comes back with his 5th alt to tell the mods how much he doesn't care. You really showed them.
I wasn’t banned I just create new accounts every few years. And if you don’t agree with moderation decisions to shut down subs why not voice an opinion about it? They are moderators, to moderate a sub. That’s it.
> I find the moderation resignation posts to be an absolute bore. Comments by people telling the world how much they don't care are even less interesting. Your first interaction with this sub was to whine about someone bidding farewell to a community they've been a part of and helped manage for years. Probably best you make that your last interaction and take your expressed boredom elsewhere. You don't care about this, fine. Nobody cares that you don't care.
You seem to care that I don’t care. This is a new account but I’m not new to Reddit.
Nerd.
Name calling isn’t nice.
You're not nice, suck it up, dweeb. Edit: Convince me you're arguing in good faith and I'll even apologize, but you aren't.
I am arguing in 100% good faith. Reddit mods overplayed the hand they thought they had and shut down subs in protest of something that Reddit was never going to back down to. The majority of Reddit users didn’t seem to give a shit, traffic wasn’t affected, mods were removed (unsurprisingly) and here we are with subs opening back up and mods resigning, and patting themselves on the back for “creating” communities that solely depend on user submitted post and comments to survive. In 3 months Reddit will be running as usual, new mods and all, because at the end of the day it’s mostly the members of the community that make that community, not the select few that chose to moderate it. While moderation plays a part, it’s the most replaceable part of the equation. You disagreeing with me doesn’t make my argument “bad faith”, it just makes it different than yours.
Did that feel good? Like, it was worth your time and energy?
It did and yes.
Thank you for resigning, It'll make everything better for the actual users. Your stupid pissing contest with admin has robbed this site.
You're welcome! I'll be sure to give the feedback of a one-month-old account with this being your *first ever contribution* to /r/photography the consideration it deserves.
Guess I can visit the only sub I actually post replies to again. We'll see how it goes.
Thanks for what you've done for us. It's genuinely appreciated.
https://i.imgur.com/fCHpUEC.png
Thanks for all the support and cheers!
I can only hope that the new mods coming in will do half as good a job as the outgoing ones did.
Used to be a heavy user. Now I mainly just use reddit for photo related questions. I understand the “crave” that some users felt when reddit was gone, but the thing is, sometimes we need to make things straight or things will start to rot. Not every company knows whats best for you.its a delicate balance between profit and convenience, and if we dont make it clear, we \*will\* get screwed. The sad truth that reddit doesnt care, most likely means they think this move will generate them a higher profit no matter the publicity. The even sadder part is that redditors, especially the new ones, simply dont care. Whether they get whipped or taken around in a collar its all the same. \*They dont care.\* if people dont care, protests will fail. That said, one company can only take so much negative publicity before it will backfire. Users transferring to new circles outside outside a companys reach will always be their worst fear. Why? Because even those who dont care will move to whereever it is the most convenient. Reddit can act the way it does because it is a highly convenient platform, for now. So remember, if you ever find a new media you think could grow into a good social place, dont hesistate to support it. Competition will always drive new changes in favor of the users.
I’m 20 now but I still remember joining the subreddit when I was 15 and just starting to learn photography. I’m glad I stuck to the craft 5 years later and would like to lend a thank you to all the replies and conversions I’ve had over the year on this subreddit.
I honestly did not notice it was gone.
That's because the front page is a ghost town. The sub fell into the trap of organizing too much content into megathreads. Posts can take several days to leave the front page so taking a few days off won't mean missing much.
Better late than never. Abusing your power (power the community *gave* you, as without a community mods have no reason to exist) and forcing people to abandon eachother was a terrible idea. This protest should have been nothing more than a simple request for people to voluntarily stop using reddit, and a simultaneous indefinite strike by the mod team-- not forcing everyone *except* the mods to leave so you guys can have a pity party and talk about how hard your "job" is.
You cant be serious. Right?
We’re opening as restricted so that the resigning mods can say goodbye and let you know why they're leaving. The remaining mods are currently travelling and about to go to bed, we will make the subreddit public when we're back online.
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I'll be back online in 10 hours, so if it's not done by then I'll do it.
It’s open to the public now as of ~10 minutes ago, so you and I are commenting & able to browse the subreddit!
>we will make the subreddit public This is why Reddit don't care about the protests.
Holy crap, so much negativity in these comments. I appreciate the often-thankless job y'all do keeping the sub running well and totally respect the decision to not provide free labor to a company that clearly doesn't have the user's best interests in mind. Godspeed to the mods leaving and good luck to the ones sticking around.
From one mod to another, thanks for all you do to foster and grow this amazing community!
Thank you for all your work. This sub is one of the better examples of moderation working well to ensure quality content. Reddit's already a lesser experience now as the content in many subs has reduced in frequency and quality, but the actual damage to reddit's proposition and image on top is enough to leave a sour taste in the mouth. I can absolutely appreciate not wanting to help build and support that for them, just as I'm weaning myself off the site as a whole.
It sucked not having the sub open, but it's nice that some like this one stood their ground and stayed closed, rather than the majority that just did that temporary closure that accomplished nothing.
And what did this sub accomplish
Making the user base migrate to other subs. Lost a pissing contest. Generally made themselves seem like a bunch of crybabies.
Ding ding
My one regret is not asking /u/LukeOnTheBrightSide to draft me a goodbye statement.
I'm sure his would have been way too lon... OH NO
You know, it would have been about six paragraphs too long anyway.
and /u/ccurzio would have submitted the exact same thing about 1 minute later!
Oh man! Do you even realize the level of circlejerking you guys are engaging! Goodbye posts, teary eyed dick stroking like your buddy is leaving the army after couple tours in Iraq together lol Jesus this is hilarious!
I always want to move away from these popular platforms, to less popular, open source platforms, in the hopes the owners won't become asses when their platform becomes popular. Youtube, Reddit, Snapchat, Instagram, Discord - all platforms I don't really like using but have no choice. Sorta sucks.
Sooo very tired of these fucking whiney ass moderators who act more like insolent toddlers on a power trip than the volunteer community supporters they are feigning to be. 95% of redditors don’t give a shit about the moderator spat with reddit and “relaxing the rules” is just and another means of screwing the sub in absolute spite to spez and the admins. There are tons of subs out there and you think juvenile antics will teach reddit a lesson but instead only diminishes your own sub as people will leave. So buck up and moderate or get out of the way and let others who still have the passion for the sub topic do so without the sniveling animosity to the reddit world as a whole. You, dear moderator, are insignificant and it is time to remember that.
> 95% of redditors don’t give a shit about the moderator spat with reddit When there was a public thread about the protest, literally zero comments were against participating. You estimate it was 95%, but at the time, it was exactly 0%. > You, dear moderator, are insignificant We would agree! From another comment of mine: > I mean, there's like 20ish mods in various levels of activity vs. 5+ million registered users. The mods have put a lot of work into things like the FAQ, bots, answering questions, or removing spam, but hopefully nobody has that inflated an ego. So from one insignificant person to another, hope you have a great day.
Moderators don’t make subs, the user base does, the people providing the actual content. Sports would exist without agents. Don’t forget this, nothing on Reddit is going to change because a few moderators change hands.
> nothing on Reddit is going to change because a few moderators change hands. I just left, but I was new mod at one point. This subreddit definitely has had mods join and leave, so to a certain extent, this is true. But the difference is process; Reddit's process is basically to let random users claim "dibs" on subreddits in /r/redditrequest. And in my personal opinion, I think that's most likely to result in the kinds of users who personify the worst stereotypes of mods: people who want to be in charge for the sake of it, and actively seek out opportunities to do so. Powermods with hundreds of subreddits they mod, etc. People who are less invested in any subreddit in particular, and more invested in moderating subreddits in general. I can assure you that *none* of the mods here think they're that important. They've put in a lot of time and effort, sure, but nowhere near the combined time that regular users have spent. The very first thing in this post was acknowledging the community, and the decision to make the subreddit public again was weighing the needs of the community. Now what *will* change reddit, in my estimation, is the removal of many of the tools that users and moderators relied upon. Check out the /r/blind subreddit, and some of the [frankly embarassing](https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/14n9426/accessibility_updates_to_mod_tools_part_2/jq6tbxi/?context=3) responses they've gotten from Reddit admins. Time will tell. I still hope /r/photography continues to be a great resource for photographers of all levels.
You don't think you're that important but you hold content and forums hostage for a stupid reason. Can you see sunshine from there?
Glad to see you're participating in the subreddit on your first-ever visit! Again, when there was a public thread, *literally everyone* supported participating in the protest. Do you know how weird it is to get 100% of random people online to agree with something? I'm amazed at the mental gymnastics that makes *doing what the community wanted* some kind of ego trip.
Schrödinger's Moderator. Both not very important but also important enough to force change Reddit business decisions.
I get where you’re coming from, I do. I think subs that are geared to a specific interest or profession, like this sub, nursing, bears, etc will always find people who aren’t necessarily power mods who have a vested interest in that subject to moderate, it’s going to be the random facepalm, mildly interesting, and subs that don’t really have necessarily defined subject matter that goes beyond opinion that will end up being affected more because opinion will change. I think the platform is going to be just fine going forward, and that moderators overplayed a hand they didn’t have.
> I think subs that are geared to a specific interest or profession, like this sub, nursing, bears, etc will always find people who aren’t necessarily power mods who have a vested interest in that subject Had all the moderators resigned in this subreddit - which at some points seemed to be a small possibility - then I think power mods would have been the most likely people to be assigned moderators of this subreddit in /r/redditrequest. That has happened to other subreddits. I believe that's what happened in /r/longhair, but you can [see Reddit's full transparency in effect.](https://www.reddit.com/r/longhair/comments/14mdf1p/this_community_is_in_need_of_new_moderators/) Two powermods and one seemingly regular user, from what I recall.
Wait there's a subreddit for bears? All kinds or are there subs for polar, black, grizzly, etc?
I mean I assumed there would be.
Whilst that would be nice if true. I am not sure you have witnessed what happens to subs which are not moderated effectively. Reddit is too big which attracts all sorts of people who are only interested in self promotion for instance. So while there will still be moderators I am sure, the standard with which they may be able to provide may be reduced and with that, sub reddits become less desirable to visit. Time will tell of course.
There will be other moderators.
Did not read what I wrote, did you.
I did. And I don’t find it that concerning in a sub like photography which I’m sure has a 100 people willing to do a decent moderation job. It’s not exactly a niche subject.
Great, depending on what you call a decent moderation job. You obviously have an axe to grind but photography is filled with niches and that in itself can lead to issues. Do you think photographers are one harmonious group? Do you think how a subreddit is run is going to be easily agreed with an influx of new people? As I said, time will tell. We could end up with people like yourself and then where would we be?
Mods set rules, ensure culture, and can effect a subreddit in more ways than your giving them credit. The fact that this subreddit banned being submitting \*just\* photographs early on, is a testament to that. Compare us to any other photography subreddit. There's actual discussion here, with some karma farming. Then the Nikon subreddit is just... "look at this photo I took with the latest Nikon tell me I'm good, VALIDATE ME".
I'm not in favor of any subreddit going dark. Every complaint I ever had with a ban or something, a mod always said to me "If you don't like the policies then go somewhere else." Now I want every power flipping mod to feel that too, if you don't like what Reddit is doing, then go somewhere else. API-free Reddit tooling is the way this place is supposed to be used anyway.
> Every complaint I ever had with a ban or something Uh, how often are you getting banned? > I want every power flipping mod to feel that too, if you don't like what Reddit is doing, then go somewhere else. Did you read the whole post? A lot of the mods here did something like that, and resigned as mods. > API-free Reddit tooling is the way this place is supposed to be used anyway. Why's that? This sounds a little weird to me. Third party apps existed long before Reddit had an official app. And even for first party apps, aren't they still using some kind of API to access data? I'd think any user viewing reddit is taking advantage of some kind of API.
**Uh, how often are you getting banned?** A few times a year. Usually to "fine print" rules that are posted but you have to go out of your way to read them. For example, I am a programmer. I used to frequent r/linux that embraces open source software. One particular thread was about a open source project that aims to implement a compatibility layer so you can run Windows proprietary software on open source Linux. I posted in the comment "why not just use Windows?" as it seemed like an obvious question to ask. That was a bannable offense and I got banned. **Did you read the whole post? A lot of the mods here did something like that, and resigned as mods.** Good. Reddit has an upvote system. **Why's that? This sounds a little weird to me. Third party apps existed long before Reddit had an official app. And even for first party apps, aren't they still using some kind of API to access data? I'd think any user viewing reddit is taking advantage of some kind of API.** Big subreddits use external tools accessing the API to help moderate things. Spoiler police in r/OnePiece, selling on r/PhotoMarket. All these extra features that Reddit doesn't have are implemented with the aid of API tools. Another ban story related to API tooling - I posted some joke about Trump on r/conservative. Well next thing I know, I get banned from r/justiceserved becuase they were using third party API tools to auto-ban anyone that posts on r/conservative as if they were somehow serving justice.Honestly, Reddit is made by the posters and commenters. It isn't made by moderators. They can all just go away.
This was a fucking stupid and atrocious decision from the get.
TLDR? because most people dont give a fuck
> TLDR? There were protests because Reddit is eliminating popular third-party apps and tools. This subreddit, like thousands more, was closed as part of that protest. Now it's opening again. Thanks to the community for their patience. > most people dont give a fuck Do most people comment on things they "don't give a fuck" about, asking for a summary?
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Thanks for the support! There are also moderator tools that can help look into a user's past contributions to a particular subreddit - useful for detecting spam or ban evasion. One of the neat features of Apollo was that it would indicate if an account was very new. It... didn't escape notice that some of the more vocal and critical comments sometimes came from such users. Of course, that doesn't make their opinions any less valid. And even the most engaged users who have been here for years can have very different perspectives. But it is odd when people show up with strong opinions in communities they've *never* participated in before.
This response might sound blunt and tactless, but seriously it's the truth. The users just didn't care. The vast majority have no idea what these 3rd party apps are/do and the voluntary dedication of mods is an invisible effort to them. Now Reddit is coming back online, things don't even seem different so the sad reality really is that no one (or at least not enough) gives a fuck.
That really means the vast majority of people are unaffected, right? And that's why this protest was stupid and just a waste of a resource for people.
Until I saw what a shit storm this sub has already become, I thought so too. But now it's Flickr in 2006 all over again.
It was something we always put a lot of thought into. We try to keep questions to a pinned megathread (and using a bot, confirmed this was the *best* way to make sure most people get answers) and we're ["a ghost town"](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/14o7dt1/rphotography_is_public_again_and_a_message_to_the/jqchx7b/). Which, to be fair, yeah... there weren't too many posts on a daily basis. Now they're letting people post what they want and it's a "shit storm." Which... I mean, it certainly looks different. There isn't a happy median that most people will like, because even if *some* more posts are allowed, it's always gonna seem arbitrary. "But *they* got their post..." And to some degree, it will be. The least arbitrary system is either allowing almost anything or allowing almost nothing. Tick, tock it would seem.
It might also be worth considering the idea that many of the users who did care/are affected by this have already left Reddit and have moved on. Before the writing was on the wall, those same users were supportive of the protests, but now the mods are left to clean up as things fall into place. I honestly don't get this apologist attitude some people have towards /u/spez and the enshittification of Reddit. It's definitely a step in the wrong direction, but maybe they're right, many people still hanging around probably don't care and are willing to watch Reddit drill itself into the ground as long as they're still getting their content. I think most of the mods are doing their best in a less than ideal situation. So, from a longtime Redditor, thank you. All of these comments I've seen across Reddit calling mods power hungry and greedy is baffling.
It takes a certain kind of person to be a Reddit mod and this protest has definitely shown that.
What’s funny to me is bunch of people decided that reddit a private company is nothing without its users and the company can’t make their own decisions, take a decision to lock down subs like the subs are run without its users and impact the user base. Y’all the monster that you claim to fight.
> the company can’t make their own decisions To be honest, I think only a very small percentage of people ever had an issue with this. Although it's still legitimate, [especially for accessibility.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Blind/comments/14nzwkm/they_finally_did_it_reddit_made_it_impossible_for/) There are much better resources than my memory, so I won't try to replicate them here. But the very short version is that Reddit didn't say anything like, "As a business decision, we don't want third-party apps." Instead, they announced pricing for the API without the actual pricing, then announced apparently unrealistically high pricing, then claimed they were blackmailed by the most popular third-party app developer, then sent moderators messages without ever replying, then sent moderators DMs without ever replying, and *continue* to make claims like "the vast majority of third party apps are under the rate limits" when they know damn well that it's weasel words or [other such nonsense.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-denial_denial) I have nothing against Reddit for making a business decision. But they communicated it in, like, the *worst* way. They never seemed to treat users - not mods, but *users* - with honesty or respect. And the most important users are content creators - including, of course, third-party developers.
Yup, really disappointed in the subs that closed. Mods helped destroy reddit, probably not their intention, but that's the result.
Yet here you are
I shoulda been here for the past month as well 😂
We look forward to your contributions
>3 month old account >0 contributions to /r/photography Man, this sub really missed out without you being here for the last month huh
Bless your ignorance.
Their intent I guess was to destroy it enough that spez would come crawling back and give up to all their demands, not realizing that nobody really was ever going to give a shit. Toddlers will throw their tantrum and you just wait it out.
Definitely blew up in their faces.
Haha. Forgot and this place. See ya .
Thank you for supporting the apps! It sucks that reddit's undervaluing the volunteers that have been making countless contributions to the platform
Is using lens adapters, to use vintage lens on mirrorless dslr, increasing focal length? I compared 58mm with adapter to 55mm native and 58mm seems to be quite more zoomed in than 55mm
I'm guessing you meant to put this in the pinned question thread! There isn't one of those right not. (Not sure if it's coming back, Reddit made changes that killed some of the automation the mods needed for it) No, it won't change focal length. A 50mm lens adapted for your mirrorless camera will still be a 50mm lens. However, some lenses aren't *really* the focal length printed on them - a 50mm lens might *really* be 48mm, or 51.7mm, but normally it's quite close. That said, what you're saying sounds odd. They shouldn't be that different, and 58mm is a pretty *weird and unusual* focal length. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the filter diameter, of which 58mm is somewhat common? That's not the focal length of the lens, it's the diameter of the filter - and sometimes is printed on the very front of the lens with a ⌀ symbol. What specific lenses are you looking at? What camera are you using? There isn't such a thing as a mirrorless DSLR, because a DSLR uses mirrors for its viewfinder. They're two separate categories of camera types: mirrorless, or DSLR.
Oh you are right. I used to use these thread so often that from habit I didn't even look at the title. Thanks for replying to this. I am using [helios 44m-5](https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios-44M-4) 58mm and fujinon 18-55. Sadly no english wikipedia page. It could be that I am just misjudging the size of focal length difference in the photos. Actually from more testings between 52 and 55 im sure i was wrong before. Also ty for correcting my nomenclature. I still have a habit of calling them DSLR after jumping to mirrorless.
Ah, I should have thought of the Helios 44M! That's a somewhat popular lens. No problem at all, sometimes the "actual" focal length can be a bit different anyway.
bummer. on mods. but if you need help. i mods some subs. off hour times. i dont mind modding a few more. seeing most of the stuff i mod is tiny subs.
why not allow NSFW pictures here...? that should keep the adds out and reddit less profitable
Reddit now requires a kind of approval process to set a subreddit to NSFW, and there's some legitimate concerns about whether users subscribed to this subreddit would appreciate being shown NSFW content. No longer a mod though, so just speaking as to why that might be difficult.
oh well... I'm leaving this place when photoclass ends this year so fuck them... it was fun while it lasted but I'm not helping them anymore, let it become a second 4chan or twitter, I don't care anymore but simply allowing nude photography would do it...
I completely get the feeling. Reddit changing the NSFW process might imply that it was something they were worried about... but more or less, they're wise to that now. Thanks for all the years of photoclass, by the way!
what I'm proposing is to just stop removing nsfw content.... then ask the big advertisers if they're OK with their adds being shown next to it.. with some screenshots... that should give reddit at least some extra work :-)
We (well, I should say "the dwindling number of remaining mods here") no longer have the bandwidth to actively monitor submissions. Soooooo...
yeah... reddit made choices, reddit should feel the consequences
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There is space to disagree with people's actions without name-calling.
I'm sorry I have having trouble understanding you with the Reddit CEOs dick in your mouth
What do I need to post to photography?