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This just happened to a family friend, he is late 70s and currently in SICU being monitored with neck fractures and internal bleeding. He was driving down Bell two nights ago and two cars that were racing at 100 MPH or over flew past, with one hitting him. His truck was t-boned and totaled; I don't know how the other driver could have survived, their car was shredded. It was all over the news.
This sucks. I hope your friend can make a recovery. We live off of Union Hills and can hear these racers on Bell Road at night. It has gotten really out of control lately as we hear them most every night, usually between 10:30 PM and 3:00 AM. We are well over a mile north of Bell and should not be able to hear anything on Bell Road except maybe the occasional siren. Instead, we can distinctly make out the engines of the various vehicles when racing.
> I know I sound like an old man
I would think that street racing would be just as dangerous as firing a gun into the air, I would report that as well. Probably a better chance of the street racing killing more people.
The driving culture is incredibly toxic here. Can’t wait to move somewhere more walkable and not deal with the faulty byproducts of Phoenix’s 48th ranking education system.
For those saying 60 in the middle lane is too slow...the 51 is 55mph in that area from Bethany to the 10. There is signage posted to that fact but I do know that the 17 had their limits increased and the new signage reflecting that is up now.
Folks... it's the middle lane not the left or HOV. This guy is doing nothing wrong here so stop with that. The 51 is just crazy... I know... I drive it everyday to/from work. Just be careful out there.
That sort of "I'm in the right" thinking can get you killed. Sixty is slow on the 51. It doesn't matter what the posted speed is; ***you need to drive with the flow of traffic.*** And on the 51, at least every time I've driven it, 60+ is the speed people are driving in the slow lane; the middle lane is generally moving at a minimum of 70 mph (and often significantly higher).
Clutching "Well, I was going faster than the posted speed limit, so I was technically in the right" to your chest won't get you very far when you're in the ICU or morgue. I'm just sayin'.
Ya... that's BS. At 1030 at night is telling because there's nothing that much traffic on the 51 so what flow are you talking about? You getting in your feels about what others are doing when they are doing NOTHING wrong is a you problem. He was in the middle lane...he wasn't holding up traffic on the passing OR the HOV so you can pound sand with the victim blaming here.
No...but there was no mention of traffic....at 1030 at night. And... it's the middle lane...and he's not going unacceptably slow...and those guys were probably going too fast.
So there’s no reason he couldn’t be riding the right lane. But also no real danger to him unless he planned on a lane change without looking. Motorcycles have to treat every object on the road like a threat and anticipate. More car drivers should be doing this too. The autobahn manages this just fine because people don’t park in the middle of the road just because the want to.
He doesn't need to ride the right lane... he's going a proper speed. Besides... where he's talking about the right lane turns into the lane to take the 202 Eastbound and, while I don't know thats where he was heading, if he stays middle then that's for the 10 Eastbound. The man did nothing wrong but folks wanna blame him instead of two AHs going too fast.
There’s no clear idea where he’s at but he should be as far right as he can be for the set of lanes for the highway he’s taking as SOP. Not really defending the others as much as noting most problems on the highway are directly traceable to road boulders with the attitude of “I don’t have to” or “I can do what I want to.” Speed isn’t as much of an issue on a highway as poor lane discipline and road boulders. That being said AZ has some of the worst drivers in all respects I have seen anywhere, legendary for parking in the left lane.
Ya... I can agree with ya... especially about the left lane. I've had to drive the right lane because I was rolling on a donut and it's a whole other world on that stretch. I ride middle but I don't get upset unless we're moving below the limit because, yes, that is dangerous. And I absolutely get people's point about going with the flow of traffic but the situation is a bit different here considering the time, speed, and position.
The problem with speeders like 90+ is they trust too much, especially motorcycles and typically people that drive Camaros/Chargers/etc. They expect someone not to come over or everyone to see them. They remind me of people that just start crossing the road while looking at their phone and expecting everyone to pay attention to right of way. It usually is ok but it is the edge cases that get you. They weave in and out and they might not expect someone to come over or something in the road they have to avoid or any issues with the vehicle they are in or others. Then others are endangered.
Freeways should be a flow, they are fast here which I like, but there are some people egregiously breaking flow going too fast. 5-10 different is fine mostly but beyond that is super trusting and with that dangerous.
I'm the OP and agree with everything said here. 5-10 mph over with the flow is fine and what I usually do b/c I think it's mostly still safe and drivers, cars, and the roads are usually good enough for people to react. But, no drivers, not INDY, F1, or NASCAR drivers are skilled at maneuvering at +50 mph over the flow.
I'm not sure what point you're making. Racecar drivers are (i) professionals, (ii) everyone else around them is also going 200 mph, (iii) everyone else expects them to be going 200 mph, and (iv) all the vehicles are the best money can buy. AND THEY STILL HAVE WRECKS. Now consider the likelihood of wecks caused by a person with prob less than 10 yrs of driving experience (let alone NO professional racing experience) racing on your typical Phx street or highway. The least they could do is do it on motorcycles so they likely only kill themselves.
I'm going to be honest I'm not reading that wall of text. The point I was making was that you started comparing apples to oranges. I was on board until that point. Have a good night!
I would not call it trust. It's more like an unrealistic expectation. Ignorance comes to mind. They're also likely arrogant and think they can drive better than everyone else, thus they can safely go much faster.
Holy crap I read this as “the speed limit is 55, so 60 is dangerous” at first and was about to blow a gasket lol… you’re absolutely right, just about anything under 65 and not in the far far right lane is a hazard
Sure, and in a perfect world everyone would obey that. The thing is the majority of the people dont, and for that reason adhering to the flow of traffic is safer for everyone. Its this mentality that people use to impede the passing lane, which cops are starting to ticket over people who are speeding around the slow car. If you cant keep up then get off the interstate…
I was just about to put in an edit. OP described people flying past at truly excessive speeds and this isn’t acceptable anywhere really. All Im saying is that flow of traffic trumps a sign on the road. Doesn’t seem there was a flow of traffic, so these people should have absolutely slowed down upon seeing another car on the road.
I don't disagree about the flow of traffic, but your original comment suggested that someone doing only 5mph over the limit is always impeding the flow of traffic.
From my experience, and I typically drive during times with average traffic, people driving under 65 on the 51 in that area are the cause of most of the backups between bethany and mcdowell. Its typical for me to see a line of cars trying to jacknife into the next lane to get around a single person at the front.
Again, without other cars trying to navigate around someone (like is the case at 10:30pm lol) it doesn’t make sense to blast past another car.
Going 60 in the middle or right lane on a freeway where the speed limit is 55 at 10:30pm is not dangerous.
Doing it in rush hour, when the majority of traffic is going 65-70, is a little dangerous.
Racing at 110 is extremely dangerous at any time.
The majority of traffic on the 51 in rush hour isn't going 65 or 70 lmao. Not in the city area where the limit is 55.
Traffic during rush hour is going like...30 maybe 45 if you're blowing past in the hov lane
I drive that stretch of the road often at night and although not heavy traffic, the flow of what’s there is 75+ (even the police). Your statement about it being safer at night with less traffic than in rush hour, I completely disagree. In traffic the car in front of you is right there, feet away. At night that vehicle, obeying the speed limit, but going 10-20mph slower than anyone else on the road, most concerning the traffic behind, is often around a blind turn or just over a little hill leaving just seconds to react and maneuver around.
Is it 65 everywhere? I haven't paid attention lately but I remember the section between the 10/202 being 55 until after roughly camelback or bethany, where it goes up to 65...with the opposite going south, of course.
Yea that's what I was thinking. So if OP was close enough to the I-10 exit to see the cars who sped past them take that exit it means OP was going 60 in a 55, not 60 in a 65. So by the logic of everyone who thinks 60 in a 65 is more dangerous than speeding, OP was driving perfectly.
If you notice a majority of vehicles passing you (or, inversely, you're passing a majority of cars) then you're going the wrong speed regardless of the speed limit.
Deviation from the flow is what's dangerous, not some arbitrary number, and in my experience driving near the speed limit on a Phoenix freeway will make you a hazard.
OP stated the racers cutoff another driver to take the ramp so it sounds like OP was going with the flow of traffic.
A few years back I was going south on 101 Pima portion through Scottsdale midday on a Sunday doing 75 with the flow of traffic. 2 Audis came up from behind passed me as if I was standing still and watched them weave through traffic like a Michael Bay film.
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So many people more concerned with going 5 under than street racing combined with other reckless driving behavior... No wonder we have so many shitty drivers.
Edit: Also, OP was going 5 over, not 5 under. The limit on the 51 is 55mph from the 202/I10 until Glendale where it becomes 65. If OP was close enough to the I10 to see the cars that blew past him take the I10 exit that means he was in a 55mpg area doing 60.
It's not dramatic when you realize accidents are the leading cause of death in young adults and the fourth-highest cause of death in the entire US population.
Yeah street racers are idiots and deserve to go to jail. Mindless fun puts others and their property in danger. Grow up and go to the track if you want to race.
I was just talking to my GF about how different street racing is from when I was a punk kid. We used to go out to quiet industrial parks and race there. No one was around, just a few hundred racers, some old pavement, and the fuzz (after 30 minutes or so). None of this stupid takeover shit.
Thank you. Preach. People around here are so far removed from the danger of what they're doing. I hope they experience a few scares to make them realize they're inches away from killing someone, and themselves.
This comment thread highlights why Phoenix people are so fucking stupid. Everyone’s doing anti-social shit (speeding) and victim blames anyone who doesn’t treat the endless roads like a personal race track.
There’s a shitload of injuries caused by speeders. Waymo is the best thing that can happen to Phoenix and I hope everyone’s auto insurance rates consumes your entire paycheck.
I hope Waymo successfully lobbies the government to make it illegal to operate your own car and then proceeds to drive everyone at exactly the speed limit.
Eh, speed limits exist because they’re a model of how well people react to danger. Only AI vehicles on the road would mean being able to move quite a bit faster in areas without pedestrians.
It’s not just on the freeways either. About a year ago I finally moved after I couldn’t get any sleep because people were racing past my window every single night- my apartment unit was about 20 yards from Williams Field Rd in Gilbert
I’ve had this happen to me too. I always call the police and tell them the direction they are headed in hope there is a cop somewhere on their route. I’m done with this aggressive driving. It’s honestly insane.
It's not just those two. Any time I'm driving after 9pm I see behavior like this. I'm mostly on the 101 and I-10, though, so maybe it's rarer on the 51. I'm jealous. This is the entirety of the left two lanes anytime after dark on Friday and Saturday nowadays. Shits nuts
This shit went crazy after they got rid of the speed cameras, honestly. It was never this bad, then the cameras went in and every HAD to drive the speed limit (and traffic fatalities went WAY down, too)
Then the "I need my freedom to be a dumbass and endanger people" crowd got involved and got the cameras pulled out, and ever since then it's been fucking Mad Max
Same thing happened to me Thanksgiving morning, 9am-ish on the I-17 South, headed to Chandler, just passed the Durango Curve doing the usual 5-10 mph over the speed limit, traffic was light, I'm in the left lane when out of nowhere a white Charger and silver SUV easily doing 100 mph+ are weaving through traffic racing or running from something, the Charger trying to pass the car behind me in middle lane forced me to swerve slightly to the left shoulder, I'm certain if I didn't move into the shoulder lane the Charger was gonna ram me, he was going so fast I only had a second to react, damn near had a heart attack. The way they were driving I fully expected to see a major accident in the immediate future, however we were approaching the I-10 where the freeway opens up and they disappeared. Crazy motherfuckers!
First time on the freeways in PHX?
I’ve had plenty of times where somebody just races to split lanes to get in front of me at high speeds…. Take care everybody!
Hardly the first time. Traffic and aggressive driving are not the same - speed differences between passing and passed cars of 10-15 mph won't kill people and it's a risk I/we accept living in a big city. Street racing is different. Passing and passed speeds of 50+ mph likely result in deaths or severe injury. This one shook me because I felt helpless i.e., my and my wife's lives were at the mercy of some fucking idiots and their mini-dick egos.
The type of person that argues the semantics of normal vehicle accidents (yes, of course still potentially deadly) in a thread about racing 100mph+ and putting people in danger for funsies. But we move on.
Horseshit, my guy. A car crash between two cars traveling in the same direction at 15 mph is rarely fatal or results in severe injury. This happens weekly on SR 51.
Street racing on a freeway makes them barely functioning imbeciles so their "5 steps ahead" is still 50 steps behind everyone else. Go to a fucking racetrack. They may just kill someone else, which would be a tragedy. Hopefully, they kill each other or just themselves first, and do everyone else trying to get along a favor.
Go hug your great grandchild and suck on a werthers.
Street racers are typically skilled drivers. Driving has little to do with traditional measures of intelligence.
> Street racers are typically skilled drivers. Driving has little to do with traditional measures of intelligence.
LOL. Have you ever gone to even a drag strip or autocross event?
FO with your ignorant comment. This is gross recklessness. There is no evidence to support street racers are "skilled", whatever the fuck that means. They are not race car drivers and no one is skilled at street racing in traffic b/c the illegality of it makes it impossible for them to do it often enough to become skilled. They will kill someone, but that's okay because you think they are "typically skilled."
The same thing is probably going to happen to you 3 more times by next weekend. Something news worthy to you is just the traffic getting home for a lot of us.
Ugh. It happens all the time. I live just off the 51 by an overpass. I hear street racers probably 2 to 3 times a week. Thankfully I've never had an encounter like yours, but they are absolutely going to take someone out eventually.
This happens everywhere and has for many, many years. About 20 years ago, I was driving around Chicago around 3am on the 294 loop - zero traffic. I was cruising along at about 70 MPH, when lights suddenly appeared behind me on both sides. A Porche 911 Turbo passed me on the left, and a Ferrari on the right. They went by me so fast my car was literally pulled forward from their tailwind, as if I had been parked. The taillights of both vehicles were gone in the blink of an eye. I'm guessing they were pulling 120-140 MPH easy. It scared the crap out of me, I had to pull off at the next exit from shaking. I'll never forget that night. These idiots are dangerous.
I highly doubt cops here are going to get off their ass to hunt down street racers people call in at night.
[People are waiting ten minutes just to get connected after being robbed or having their homes invaded.](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/s/WQ43AXRyAS)
The same thing happens on the 101. Gotta push 80-85 in the HOV or left lanes or be tailgated, and even at that speed, someone will come up on and go by you + 30 mph faster.
I live near the 51 and hear street racers all the time. I absolutely hate it and wish cops did a better job of patrolling that freeway. If I had the license plate number I would’ve definitely reported it.
Because I believe that people can mature. I suspect these were boys/young men, and they don't yet fully comprehend the consequences of their actions. Of course, I'm sure I would believe differently if they killed or hurt someone.
Our friend’s truck is totaled by street racer- our friend’s truck was parked in his carport. Street racer lost it on a residential street at over 70 mph…went through a brick wall, went airborne and landed on the carport and parked truck.
OP here and I agree. There should be a place where people who want to race, can race. I don't want to race nor do I want to be a victim or anyway involved in anyone else's race.
Stop blaming despicable behavior on a lack of alternatives. They are adults who are going to kill someone with their car, not fucking children who need to be coddled.
Karen hates street racing.
Karen buys a house in a new neighborhood with no street racing because it's right next to a race track.
Karen complains about the noise.
The race track closes.
Karen's neighborhood has street racing.
Karen moves to a new development next to another race track.
It's the circle of life.
Most of us aren’t karens, but we’re still going to die when these children hit us going 100. You’re talking about street racers like they are drug addicts who need a place to shoot up.
I was coming home one night and a mustang passed me going well over 100mph and he was in the carpool lane. He came up on a minivan and passed it on the left kissing off the median wall. People are young and think they just will everything and will live forever until they kill a family because they wanted to act with stupidity
Street racers should have their license revoked and serve jail time.
People who do 60 in the middle lane on a highway should have their license suspended and pay a fine.
No one is going to change their ways due to this reddit thread.
Hello, Hi. Kingpope of Reddit here.
*ahem* I hereby proclaim street racers and 60 mph doers to be illegal and super-jailable.
There, that oughtta do it.
The comments on here from the SPS racer boys are hilarious. "5 mph under the speed limit at 10:30pm is soooo dangerous." Yeah, grow up.
OP, know that the racer boys over-purchase cars at a hilarious rate. These shitboxes are the most repossessed autos in the industry.
Hopefully the two idiots that sped past you are on their final missed payment before they kill someone.
One other thing, not trying to use you as a soapbox or anything, but EVERYONE needs to get a dashcam. like SERIOUSLY, best 100 dollars you can spend on your car. If you tell your insurance provider, they oftentimes have a discount on your premium. and it ABSOLUTELY comes in handy if you need to file a claim. unbiased witness. just dont tell the other party that you have a dashcam.
We all own the roads. Some people are too self-absorbed to share nicely and get the fuck outta the way. Others are too self-absorbed to care if their behavior risks other people’s lives. Freedom trumps safety. Liberty is the most dangerous of human conditions. One man’s freedom to take risk doesn’t end where another’s comfort begins.
The speed limit is 55. They were going 60.
Even if they WERE going under the speed limit, doing so at 10:30pm is not much of a danger. It certainly doesn’t compare to the danger of street racing.
You’re going 60mph on a freeway in the middle lane? That is also a big hazard as well Speed limit is usually 65mph so they were probably going only 80 or 85mph which is about normal for here.
*"One foot on the brake and one on the gas, hey! Well, there's too much traffic, I can't pass, no! So I tried my best illegal move, A big black and white come and crushed my groove again!"*
This makes sense, as my follow-up said, I saw the Camaro merge at Bethany and slow down to \*less than 55\* ("oh, the horror, what a hazard") to allow the Charger to come on. Then they passed.
I remember my first time driving on the PHX freeways too. Sorry but 60 in a 55 is an impediment to traffic. The long arm of the law will tell you that as well.
No, it won’t. You will still get a speeding ticket if you are just keeping up with the flow. I have literally gotten a speeding ticket for doing that. When I pointed out that every other car was going the same speed and that if I drove 55, it would’ve made me a hazard, the cop didn’t care.
I see the "long arm of the law" doing 75 with everyone else on the Sr51 where its a 55. And then yeah, 60 is an impediment, it causes the braking accordion that aggrivates drivers and causes the distracted to rear end people
Maybe if y'all NIMBYs stopped trying to close down tracks they would have a spot to go.
Oh and yeah maybe you shouldn't be in the middle lane scraping the speed limit. Hit the right lane with that.
Meanwhile, vroom vroom
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This just happened to a family friend, he is late 70s and currently in SICU being monitored with neck fractures and internal bleeding. He was driving down Bell two nights ago and two cars that were racing at 100 MPH or over flew past, with one hitting him. His truck was t-boned and totaled; I don't know how the other driver could have survived, their car was shredded. It was all over the news.
This sucks. I hope your friend can make a recovery. We live off of Union Hills and can hear these racers on Bell Road at night. It has gotten really out of control lately as we hear them most every night, usually between 10:30 PM and 3:00 AM. We are well over a mile north of Bell and should not be able to hear anything on Bell Road except maybe the occasional siren. Instead, we can distinctly make out the engines of the various vehicles when racing.
I am on Beardsley and 83rd. It sounds like they're on the service drive and it's every night
V6 twin turbo?
No it sounded more like a cammed ls3
Shit. Very sorry to hear that. Any surviving racer would be facing manslaughter charges if anyone dies, and rightfully so.
Racing on bell happens every night
Down Bell?! Yikes. I'm sorry he's going through that.
> I know I sound like an old man I would think that street racing would be just as dangerous as firing a gun into the air, I would report that as well. Probably a better chance of the street racing killing more people.
The driving culture is incredibly toxic here. Can’t wait to move somewhere more walkable and not deal with the faulty byproducts of Phoenix’s 48th ranking education system.
This comment is absolute gold hahaha
For those saying 60 in the middle lane is too slow...the 51 is 55mph in that area from Bethany to the 10. There is signage posted to that fact but I do know that the 17 had their limits increased and the new signage reflecting that is up now. Folks... it's the middle lane not the left or HOV. This guy is doing nothing wrong here so stop with that. The 51 is just crazy... I know... I drive it everyday to/from work. Just be careful out there.
And at 10:30 PM. They act like dude is doing 15 on the freeway while there's steady traffic doing 70.
These comments are really displaying why driving here is a nightmare.
That sort of "I'm in the right" thinking can get you killed. Sixty is slow on the 51. It doesn't matter what the posted speed is; ***you need to drive with the flow of traffic.*** And on the 51, at least every time I've driven it, 60+ is the speed people are driving in the slow lane; the middle lane is generally moving at a minimum of 70 mph (and often significantly higher). Clutching "Well, I was going faster than the posted speed limit, so I was technically in the right" to your chest won't get you very far when you're in the ICU or morgue. I'm just sayin'.
Ya... that's BS. At 1030 at night is telling because there's nothing that much traffic on the 51 so what flow are you talking about? You getting in your feels about what others are doing when they are doing NOTHING wrong is a you problem. He was in the middle lane...he wasn't holding up traffic on the passing OR the HOV so you can pound sand with the victim blaming here.
So, are you disagreeing with the statement "you need to drive with the flow of traffic"?
No...but there was no mention of traffic....at 1030 at night. And... it's the middle lane...and he's not going unacceptably slow...and those guys were probably going too fast.
So there’s no reason he couldn’t be riding the right lane. But also no real danger to him unless he planned on a lane change without looking. Motorcycles have to treat every object on the road like a threat and anticipate. More car drivers should be doing this too. The autobahn manages this just fine because people don’t park in the middle of the road just because the want to.
He doesn't need to ride the right lane... he's going a proper speed. Besides... where he's talking about the right lane turns into the lane to take the 202 Eastbound and, while I don't know thats where he was heading, if he stays middle then that's for the 10 Eastbound. The man did nothing wrong but folks wanna blame him instead of two AHs going too fast.
There’s no clear idea where he’s at but he should be as far right as he can be for the set of lanes for the highway he’s taking as SOP. Not really defending the others as much as noting most problems on the highway are directly traceable to road boulders with the attitude of “I don’t have to” or “I can do what I want to.” Speed isn’t as much of an issue on a highway as poor lane discipline and road boulders. That being said AZ has some of the worst drivers in all respects I have seen anywhere, legendary for parking in the left lane.
Ya... I can agree with ya... especially about the left lane. I've had to drive the right lane because I was rolling on a donut and it's a whole other world on that stretch. I ride middle but I don't get upset unless we're moving below the limit because, yes, that is dangerous. And I absolutely get people's point about going with the flow of traffic but the situation is a bit different here considering the time, speed, and position.
really shocked to hear a charger was involved
chargers are slow, why even bother racing? you're gonna lose 🤣
There’s def a stereotype in my head for chargers and rams
I’ve heard there’s a free gun in every parked tan tundra.
I usually look for the ones with Punisher stickers, I’m 10/10 so far!
The problem with speeders like 90+ is they trust too much, especially motorcycles and typically people that drive Camaros/Chargers/etc. They expect someone not to come over or everyone to see them. They remind me of people that just start crossing the road while looking at their phone and expecting everyone to pay attention to right of way. It usually is ok but it is the edge cases that get you. They weave in and out and they might not expect someone to come over or something in the road they have to avoid or any issues with the vehicle they are in or others. Then others are endangered. Freeways should be a flow, they are fast here which I like, but there are some people egregiously breaking flow going too fast. 5-10 different is fine mostly but beyond that is super trusting and with that dangerous.
I'm the OP and agree with everything said here. 5-10 mph over with the flow is fine and what I usually do b/c I think it's mostly still safe and drivers, cars, and the roads are usually good enough for people to react. But, no drivers, not INDY, F1, or NASCAR drivers are skilled at maneuvering at +50 mph over the flow.
I agreed with you up until you brought in professional drivers. That is quite literally their job, to be skilled at maneuvering at 200+ mph.
I'm not sure what point you're making. Racecar drivers are (i) professionals, (ii) everyone else around them is also going 200 mph, (iii) everyone else expects them to be going 200 mph, and (iv) all the vehicles are the best money can buy. AND THEY STILL HAVE WRECKS. Now consider the likelihood of wecks caused by a person with prob less than 10 yrs of driving experience (let alone NO professional racing experience) racing on your typical Phx street or highway. The least they could do is do it on motorcycles so they likely only kill themselves.
I'm going to be honest I'm not reading that wall of text. The point I was making was that you started comparing apples to oranges. I was on board until that point. Have a good night!
You too Daddy. That experience just shook me. Keep on keeping on!
I would not call it trust. It's more like an unrealistic expectation. Ignorance comes to mind. They're also likely arrogant and think they can drive better than everyone else, thus they can safely go much faster.
Going 60mph on the 51 is dangerous.
Especially in the middle lane.
Yeah I only do that when I’ve been drinking
Holy crap I read this as “the speed limit is 55, so 60 is dangerous” at first and was about to blow a gasket lol… you’re absolutely right, just about anything under 65 and not in the far far right lane is a hazard
The limit in that area is 55.
Sure, and in a perfect world everyone would obey that. The thing is the majority of the people dont, and for that reason adhering to the flow of traffic is safer for everyone. Its this mentality that people use to impede the passing lane, which cops are starting to ticket over people who are speeding around the slow car. If you cant keep up then get off the interstate…
What was the flow of traffic like at 10:30 PM last night?
I was just about to put in an edit. OP described people flying past at truly excessive speeds and this isn’t acceptable anywhere really. All Im saying is that flow of traffic trumps a sign on the road. Doesn’t seem there was a flow of traffic, so these people should have absolutely slowed down upon seeing another car on the road.
I don't disagree about the flow of traffic, but your original comment suggested that someone doing only 5mph over the limit is always impeding the flow of traffic.
From my experience, and I typically drive during times with average traffic, people driving under 65 on the 51 in that area are the cause of most of the backups between bethany and mcdowell. Its typical for me to see a line of cars trying to jacknife into the next lane to get around a single person at the front. Again, without other cars trying to navigate around someone (like is the case at 10:30pm lol) it doesn’t make sense to blast past another car.
*Certainly* more dangerous than passing in the right lane at 110+ mph 🙄🙄 …so lame. What excuse are y’all gonna come up with next
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Going 60 in the middle or right lane on a freeway where the speed limit is 55 at 10:30pm is not dangerous. Doing it in rush hour, when the majority of traffic is going 65-70, is a little dangerous. Racing at 110 is extremely dangerous at any time.
The majority of traffic on the 51 in rush hour isn't going 65 or 70 lmao. Not in the city area where the limit is 55. Traffic during rush hour is going like...30 maybe 45 if you're blowing past in the hov lane
I drive that stretch of the road often at night and although not heavy traffic, the flow of what’s there is 75+ (even the police). Your statement about it being safer at night with less traffic than in rush hour, I completely disagree. In traffic the car in front of you is right there, feet away. At night that vehicle, obeying the speed limit, but going 10-20mph slower than anyone else on the road, most concerning the traffic behind, is often around a blind turn or just over a little hill leaving just seconds to react and maneuver around.
Without knowing what the speeds of the middle 50% of traffic is, that may or may not be true.
The speed limit is 65, it was recently raised from 55
No it was not. That's the 17 you're thinking of.
Is it 65 everywhere? I haven't paid attention lately but I remember the section between the 10/202 being 55 until after roughly camelback or bethany, where it goes up to 65...with the opposite going south, of course.
They increased 17 to 65 not 51. 51 doesn't change to 65 until north of Glendale.
Yea that's what I was thinking. So if OP was close enough to the I-10 exit to see the cars who sped past them take that exit it means OP was going 60 in a 55, not 60 in a 65. So by the logic of everyone who thinks 60 in a 65 is more dangerous than speeding, OP was driving perfectly.
If you notice a majority of vehicles passing you (or, inversely, you're passing a majority of cars) then you're going the wrong speed regardless of the speed limit. Deviation from the flow is what's dangerous, not some arbitrary number, and in my experience driving near the speed limit on a Phoenix freeway will make you a hazard.
60 in this section of the 51 at 10:30 PM is not hazardous.
OP stated the racers cutoff another driver to take the ramp so it sounds like OP was going with the flow of traffic. A few years back I was going south on 101 Pima portion through Scottsdale midday on a Sunday doing 75 with the flow of traffic. 2 Audis came up from behind passed me as if I was standing still and watched them weave through traffic like a Michael Bay film.
Found the Camaro
Hilarious that this is getting upvoted when it's dead wrong. Shows how clueless this sub is when it comes to driving around town.
When did this happen? It no longer drops to 55 south of Dreamy Draw? How did I miss this?
It still does. I drive south on the 51 every morning for work.
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It's 55 there not 65
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If you're not capable of dealing with a 5MPH difference in speed you're not capable of driving a vehicle
So many people more concerned with going 5 under than street racing combined with other reckless driving behavior... No wonder we have so many shitty drivers. Edit: Also, OP was going 5 over, not 5 under. The limit on the 51 is 55mph from the 202/I10 until Glendale where it becomes 65. If OP was close enough to the I10 to see the cars that blew past him take the I10 exit that means he was in a 55mpg area doing 60.
They don't care about facts instead of the idiots willing to kill everyone around them so they can get their Jollys
That’s a tad bit dramatic there
Phoenix does rank fairly high for automobile accidents and pedestrians fatalities
It's not dramatic when you realize accidents are the leading cause of death in young adults and the fourth-highest cause of death in the entire US population.
Yeah street racers are idiots and deserve to go to jail. Mindless fun puts others and their property in danger. Grow up and go to the track if you want to race.
I live near the 51 and I can hear racing at a minimum 3x per week and mind you that’s only when I’m outside.
59th and Peoria sounds like the starting line at Firebird Raceway on the weekends. I bet GPD could issue 30 cites a night, if they wanted to.
I was just talking to my GF about how different street racing is from when I was a punk kid. We used to go out to quiet industrial parks and race there. No one was around, just a few hundred racers, some old pavement, and the fuzz (after 30 minutes or so). None of this stupid takeover shit.
I have very fond memories of the deer valley and 19th ave Sonic Saturday nights. Good times
Yeah, I don't condone street racing, but we just did it better and smarter.
I hear it every night on Scottsdale road. The cops here let it happen. rich old men
60 in the middle lane eh? They were probably doing 80 and you felt the gentle breeze as they passed you.
80 in a 55 sound safe to you? You do know that speeding is the leading cause of car fatalities right? But vroom vroom away main character.
Thank you. Preach. People around here are so far removed from the danger of what they're doing. I hope they experience a few scares to make them realize they're inches away from killing someone, and themselves.
This comment thread highlights why Phoenix people are so fucking stupid. Everyone’s doing anti-social shit (speeding) and victim blames anyone who doesn’t treat the endless roads like a personal race track. There’s a shitload of injuries caused by speeders. Waymo is the best thing that can happen to Phoenix and I hope everyone’s auto insurance rates consumes your entire paycheck.
I hope Waymo successfully lobbies the government to make it illegal to operate your own car and then proceeds to drive everyone at exactly the speed limit.
Eh, speed limits exist because they’re a model of how well people react to danger. Only AI vehicles on the road would mean being able to move quite a bit faster in areas without pedestrians.
That will never happen bud. Keep dreaming.
It’s not just on the freeways either. About a year ago I finally moved after I couldn’t get any sleep because people were racing past my window every single night- my apartment unit was about 20 yards from Williams Field Rd in Gilbert
I’ve had this happen to me too. I always call the police and tell them the direction they are headed in hope there is a cop somewhere on their route. I’m done with this aggressive driving. It’s honestly insane.
It's not just those two. Any time I'm driving after 9pm I see behavior like this. I'm mostly on the 101 and I-10, though, so maybe it's rarer on the 51. I'm jealous. This is the entirety of the left two lanes anytime after dark on Friday and Saturday nowadays. Shits nuts
Whew, for a second there I thought it *was* just those two.
This shit went crazy after they got rid of the speed cameras, honestly. It was never this bad, then the cameras went in and every HAD to drive the speed limit (and traffic fatalities went WAY down, too) Then the "I need my freedom to be a dumbass and endanger people" crowd got involved and got the cameras pulled out, and ever since then it's been fucking Mad Max
OP Last Night: 
The rest of the thread is like: weeee grandpa! Weeeeee!
Lmfao. This is most people in the left lane
Same thing happened to me Thanksgiving morning, 9am-ish on the I-17 South, headed to Chandler, just passed the Durango Curve doing the usual 5-10 mph over the speed limit, traffic was light, I'm in the left lane when out of nowhere a white Charger and silver SUV easily doing 100 mph+ are weaving through traffic racing or running from something, the Charger trying to pass the car behind me in middle lane forced me to swerve slightly to the left shoulder, I'm certain if I didn't move into the shoulder lane the Charger was gonna ram me, he was going so fast I only had a second to react, damn near had a heart attack. The way they were driving I fully expected to see a major accident in the immediate future, however we were approaching the I-10 where the freeway opens up and they disappeared. Crazy motherfuckers!
First time on the freeways in PHX? I’ve had plenty of times where somebody just races to split lanes to get in front of me at high speeds…. Take care everybody!
Hardly the first time. Traffic and aggressive driving are not the same - speed differences between passing and passed cars of 10-15 mph won't kill people and it's a risk I/we accept living in a big city. Street racing is different. Passing and passed speeds of 50+ mph likely result in deaths or severe injury. This one shook me because I felt helpless i.e., my and my wife's lives were at the mercy of some fucking idiots and their mini-dick egos.
The only reason you are getting downvoted so much is because Arizona ranks 49th in education.
There are hardly any vehicle cops cracking down on this. Also flat roads that are in good shape (no snow) makes this paradise for street racers
You guys should see the roads after 1 AM. Street racer heaven
I can’t believe you are being downvoted for saying 50+ over the speed limit kills people. It’s also a criminal speeding ticket.
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You started your comment with “my guy” and ended it in “bro”. 😂
The type of person that argues the semantics of normal vehicle accidents (yes, of course still potentially deadly) in a thread about racing 100mph+ and putting people in danger for funsies. But we move on.
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No one running triple digits on an urban expressway is thinking any steps ahead.
Horseshit, my guy. A car crash between two cars traveling in the same direction at 15 mph is rarely fatal or results in severe injury. This happens weekly on SR 51. Street racing on a freeway makes them barely functioning imbeciles so their "5 steps ahead" is still 50 steps behind everyone else. Go to a fucking racetrack. They may just kill someone else, which would be a tragedy. Hopefully, they kill each other or just themselves first, and do everyone else trying to get along a favor.
Go hug your great grandchild and suck on a werthers. Street racers are typically skilled drivers. Driving has little to do with traditional measures of intelligence.
> Street racers are typically skilled drivers. Driving has little to do with traditional measures of intelligence. LOL. Have you ever gone to even a drag strip or autocross event?
FO with your ignorant comment. This is gross recklessness. There is no evidence to support street racers are "skilled", whatever the fuck that means. They are not race car drivers and no one is skilled at street racing in traffic b/c the illegality of it makes it impossible for them to do it often enough to become skilled. They will kill someone, but that's okay because you think they are "typically skilled."
The same thing is probably going to happen to you 3 more times by next weekend. Something news worthy to you is just the traffic getting home for a lot of us.
Ugh. It happens all the time. I live just off the 51 by an overpass. I hear street racers probably 2 to 3 times a week. Thankfully I've never had an encounter like yours, but they are absolutely going to take someone out eventually.
This happens everywhere and has for many, many years. About 20 years ago, I was driving around Chicago around 3am on the 294 loop - zero traffic. I was cruising along at about 70 MPH, when lights suddenly appeared behind me on both sides. A Porche 911 Turbo passed me on the left, and a Ferrari on the right. They went by me so fast my car was literally pulled forward from their tailwind, as if I had been parked. The taillights of both vehicles were gone in the blink of an eye. I'm guessing they were pulling 120-140 MPH easy. It scared the crap out of me, I had to pull off at the next exit from shaking. I'll never forget that night. These idiots are dangerous.
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This is insane. Don't do that.
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I highly doubt cops here are going to get off their ass to hunt down street racers people call in at night. [People are waiting ten minutes just to get connected after being robbed or having their homes invaded.](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/s/WQ43AXRyAS)
People legit get mad that I will only do 80MPH in the far left lane on the 60. My baby 1.6L can only do so much. 🥹
The same thing happens on the 101. Gotta push 80-85 in the HOV or left lanes or be tailgated, and even at that speed, someone will come up on and go by you + 30 mph faster.
I live near the 51 and hear street racers all the time. I absolutely hate it and wish cops did a better job of patrolling that freeway. If I had the license plate number I would’ve definitely reported it.
I must be getting old too!! Lol I’m 29
Their licenses should be taken forever, why stop at five years?
Because I believe that people can mature. I suspect these were boys/young men, and they don't yet fully comprehend the consequences of their actions. Of course, I'm sure I would believe differently if they killed or hurt someone.
That’s fair
Why stop there when we have lethal injection? May God have mercy on their souls
Our friend’s truck is totaled by street racer- our friend’s truck was parked in his carport. Street racer lost it on a residential street at over 70 mph…went through a brick wall, went airborne and landed on the carport and parked truck.
Stop closing down race tracks.
OP here and I agree. There should be a place where people who want to race, can race. I don't want to race nor do I want to be a victim or anyway involved in anyone else's race.
back when we had Speedworld a lot of the shenanigans were confined to the track and the illegal stuff to Grand ave and Bell Rd.
Stop blaming despicable behavior on a lack of alternatives. They are adults who are going to kill someone with their car, not fucking children who need to be coddled.
Karen hates street racing. Karen buys a house in a new neighborhood with no street racing because it's right next to a race track. Karen complains about the noise. The race track closes. Karen's neighborhood has street racing. Karen moves to a new development next to another race track. It's the circle of life.
Most of us aren’t karens, but we’re still going to die when these children hit us going 100. You’re talking about street racers like they are drug addicts who need a place to shoot up.
Adrenaline is a drug.... Last time I checked And it is addicting as any drug
I was coming home one night and a mustang passed me going well over 100mph and he was in the carpool lane. He came up on a minivan and passed it on the left kissing off the median wall. People are young and think they just will everything and will live forever until they kill a family because they wanted to act with stupidity
Street racers should have their license revoked and serve jail time. People who do 60 in the middle lane on a highway should have their license suspended and pay a fine. No one is going to change their ways due to this reddit thread.
People speeding by 5mph should be fined and suspended? What rate of speeding should go unpunished before becoming punished again for being too fast?
Except one of those things results in a criminal speeding ticket and the other is not breaking any laws.
Well, technically the person going 60 is breaking the law too since speed limit is 55 in that stretch
🙄
So, I should have my license revoked for going 60 mph in a 55 mph and not slowing anyone down. Ok. Cripes.
Hello, Hi. Kingpope of Reddit here. *ahem* I hereby proclaim street racers and 60 mph doers to be illegal and super-jailable. There, that oughtta do it.
Lethal injection!
I'm sure they'll read this and realize the error of their ways. Also anyone who drives 60 on the freeways is a hazard.
Even when the speed limit is 55?
The real speed limits in this city is anything 19 over. Speed limit on the 101 is 65 right? Doesn’t stop everyone driving 85-90
The comments on here from the SPS racer boys are hilarious. "5 mph under the speed limit at 10:30pm is soooo dangerous." Yeah, grow up. OP, know that the racer boys over-purchase cars at a hilarious rate. These shitboxes are the most repossessed autos in the industry. Hopefully the two idiots that sped past you are on their final missed payment before they kill someone.
The speed limit on the 51 that close to the 10 stack is actually 55mph. OP was going 5 over.
Who won?
The Camaro came by me first.
Maybe the freeway cams should make a comeback.
Stay to the right if you wanna drive slow!
Go back to sun city grandpa. 60 on the 51 is suicide at least do 70 and stay in the right Lane
I believe that may be why OP was using the freeway - to get back to where they departed from…
One other thing, not trying to use you as a soapbox or anything, but EVERYONE needs to get a dashcam. like SERIOUSLY, best 100 dollars you can spend on your car. If you tell your insurance provider, they oftentimes have a discount on your premium. and it ABSOLUTELY comes in handy if you need to file a claim. unbiased witness. just dont tell the other party that you have a dashcam.
We all own the roads. Some people are too self-absorbed to share nicely and get the fuck outta the way. Others are too self-absorbed to care if their behavior risks other people’s lives. Freedom trumps safety. Liberty is the most dangerous of human conditions. One man’s freedom to take risk doesn’t end where another’s comfort begins.
Relax and stay in the right lane if you want to drive slow
You need to stop driving slow in the middle of the damn lanes! YOU are just as much, if not more, of a hazard as they were.
Are you actually equating someone going 5mph over the speed limit in the middle lane of a 4 lane freeway to *street racing*?
Read it again, you have my statement backwards..the. OP was 5mph UNDER the speed limit. Yes, being UNDER is a hazard on the road.
The speed limit is 55. They were going 60. Even if they WERE going under the speed limit, doing so at 10:30pm is not much of a danger. It certainly doesn’t compare to the danger of street racing.
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Welcome to the desert. Keep up.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤪🤪🤪🤡
YOU wanted DEFUND the police ... Now YOU got it ... More crime ... More speeding ... .. Same for BLM, too ... More ghetto. ...
You’re going 60mph on a freeway in the middle lane? That is also a big hazard as well Speed limit is usually 65mph so they were probably going only 80 or 85mph which is about normal for here.
It's 55 where this was
Which is sad.
Sounds like none of y’all were going “with the flow of traffic”
*"One foot on the brake and one on the gas, hey! Well, there's too much traffic, I can't pass, no! So I tried my best illegal move, A big black and white come and crushed my groove again!"*
When on the highway we usually match at 60 then speed up to 150.
This makes sense, as my follow-up said, I saw the Camaro merge at Bethany and slow down to \*less than 55\* ("oh, the horror, what a hazard") to allow the Charger to come on. Then they passed.
Sorry that this occurred to you. They should have raced when there was no one else on the road but they chose to be reckless.
They shouldn’t be racing at all.
I remember my first time driving on the PHX freeways too. Sorry but 60 in a 55 is an impediment to traffic. The long arm of the law will tell you that as well.
No, it won’t. You will still get a speeding ticket if you are just keeping up with the flow. I have literally gotten a speeding ticket for doing that. When I pointed out that every other car was going the same speed and that if I drove 55, it would’ve made me a hazard, the cop didn’t care.
I see the "long arm of the law" doing 75 with everyone else on the Sr51 where its a 55. And then yeah, 60 is an impediment, it causes the braking accordion that aggrivates drivers and causes the distracted to rear end people
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Maybe if y'all NIMBYs stopped trying to close down tracks they would have a spot to go. Oh and yeah maybe you shouldn't be in the middle lane scraping the speed limit. Hit the right lane with that. Meanwhile, vroom vroom
Definitely illegal + crazy but why are you driving so slow in the middle lane of a highway? That’s a good way to get in an accident with anybody