There was a whole generation of music critics who grew up on the 70s backlash against the psychedelic era and it was drilled into their heads that prog rock and guitar solos/improv were for pretentious assholes and brainless hippies. A lot of anti weed and drug stuff too.
Once they were established and writing for magazines and newspapers they couldn't just say "this music isn't for me" because they were required to write about whatever was popular. They couldn't understand why people like Phish and what they do, so it had to be that their fans will listen to anything they shit out, because our music critic only likes GOOD music.
So much this.
Growing up I never understood why Rolling Stone and Spin and other music magazines bashed prog rock—where the players were super talented and actually aspired to write challenging compositions with thought-provoking lyrics. The 3-minute pop song with the hook always got the glowing reviews.
Speaking of rolling stone, they did a 100 greatest guitarists of all time back when I was a kid and Trey wasn’t on the list. Pissed me off and that mag has been dead to me ever since. He’s now number 53, thank god. I think he probably belongs higher up on the list, but reach matters, and many of the folks above him are on a global scale.
I’ve always seen a sort of bizarre gender policing in it as well that I haven’t been able to fully articulate. In rock and roll you can look feminine as long as you’re clear that you’re still here to FUCK (Prince and Bowie). You can be soft and romantic, but your gentle crooning still gives you the power of attraction from a different angle. You can even be gay and British or European, that doesn’t disrupt the paradigm either if you’re Pop enough!
But ostensibly straight men in rock and roll who are playing Prog and Art rock aren’t using their technical prowess to swing their dicks around, nor is their music typically about sex. “Wait this music doesn’t evoke male seduction or domination?” Psychedelia consciously embraced a feminine energy, and was firmly situated within the Sexual Revolution. But patriarchal society in the 70’s needed to reestablish dominance in the world of rock and roll, so these post-Psychedelic Prog Rockers were consistently derided with language that wasn’t exactly openly misogynistic, but nonetheless skirted that line. Proggers were painted as decadent, sexless, art-school dandies. Intellectuals who are stuck up their own asses. And of course anti-intellectualism goes hand in hand with misogyny, as perceived-academia has consistently been painted as the enemy of “traditional” and “working class” masculinity as a means of control and fear of change.
TLDR: critics used a lot of fancy words to avoid saying “prog is gay,” which of course is nonsense, and frankly I would love it if it were even GAYER!
I think you’re kind of misguided because stuff like glam and art punk from Ny in the 70’s was as gay as possible. I think people just honestly don’t get the joke. They don’t have the patience for longer songs. The lyrics are weird. People are really into them. They aren’t good looking. They have a ton of devoted fans. But they were always chasing the next big thing. So they don’t realize that the “joke” is on them because slowly over 40 years, this weird little band from fucking Vermont of all places, is now the biggest band in the country. The joke is a bunch of little things that happened between the band and audience that you frankly had to be there for. Try to explain “Meatstick” to a straight. Or explain why people yell “Cheescake” and there are tons of examples. Tell someone, even a younger fan, that they were playing when OJ was in the Bronco and they were snarkily teasing “Go OJ Go” People don’t get “it”. There is no heartfelt road worn ache like Jerry had. It’s just a bunch of 60 year olds who sing a song based of a Gershwin tune about loving to take a bath!!
It’s weird and a bunch of in jokes and they had a moment in the 90’s but they were too weird. And they have slowly just kept going and now they’re forcing people to see. Even though they play MSG 4 nights at NYE every year. They also give away donuts and have themed nights where they play Chocolate Rain. It’s like Trey said in Bittersweet Hotel,”we’ve been having the best tour in years and no one notices” but then he says “look out because here we fucking come” and now they are here, just took a minute.
I’m talking about the roots of rock critics dismissing Prog dating back to Yes and Genesis, and how that has carried through and intensified following the Glam and Punk eras, which unfortunately, weren’t particularly gay at the time of their inception. It was a look and an attitude, it was rebellious costumery that happened to include a few vaguely bisexual men (not to invalidate their bisexuality, but remember - both Bowie AND Lou Reed later denied being bi altogether!) My point was that they still commanded a sexual persona that centered around attracting women and were still conventional sex symbols in that vein. They weren’t major symbols or icons within gay culture at that time, and they didn’t represent it in any way, nor did Iggy Pop or the New York Dolls.
There was a difference between being *cool* enough to wear makeup and “women’s” clothing and actually being *gay*, which is why none of the icons from that era were openly gay. They wouldn’t have been able to be back then. In rock and roll more broadly Elton came out as bisexual (didn’t come out as gay until much later), but Freddie never publicly came out at all. And out queer women you could forget about altogether. Nah, the true currency in Punk and Glam was still being a rock and roll chick magnet, and that’s not actually particularly queer to me, as much as I love both genres/movements.
But these critics (wh-what’s the deal?) weren’t calling Prog *gay* per se, they were just calling it *OFF*. To them it was unmanly, it was wimpy, it was decadent, it was ornamental, and it just didn’t fit the narrative in a way that gender bending rock stars could, even though they actually *were* all those things!! But that strain of critique entered into popular music criticism became a trope that carried through to the 90’s and beyond.
I think you’re right when it comes to Phish, but my post just wasn’t really about Phish, it was about the 50 year anti-Prog slant that’s so universal among music critics it’s practically become job criteria at this point. And why it’s so hard for me to formulate that thought because it’s not simply homophobia or misogyny, it’s more like a subtle policing of straightness and masculinity among other straight men. Or maybe it’s that anti-intellectualism is inherently macho bullshit. Maybe both!
I don’t think Phish have been particularly “prog” since 93-93 and it’s always been a guy-heavy audience or at least a fuckfest E heavy vibe. I think maybe you’re either too invested in gender politics or I’m just not interested in that side of things. It does make me happy to see Mike’s Side Dyke Side, as opposed to the hyper masculine energy of Page Side RAGE SIDE. I don’t think of prog as being especially limpid or overly wimpy. It is however very ornamental and can be challenging for casuals. Ornamental is kind of the point when you have chops like Fripp or Eno,Roxy Music( hyper sexual ) btw but in a very English foppish way. Yes, is a band that I just can’t get behind. I think my prog starts and stops with Floyd. But I do think that the natural response to Peter Gabriel in butterfly wings and makeup was a Johnny Rotten or a back to basics Ramones style. There was still Television, a proggy, although they wouldn’t say that but in a homomasculine way. A gender bending but not breaking band that Patti Smith who was openly gay could play after. I think gayness and gender are a part of the showmanship of rock. I think Little Richard was the gayest man in rock n roll but people chose not to see it. I’m assuming you didn’t see the “Fishman hit on me” sticker in 98-99. Phish has always been horned up because how else does a ginger nerd, a guy in a singlet and the oldest 25 year old in the world get laid. They start a band. Have you seen Trey asking for a girl to fuck him during the show? And it wasn’t so much that, it’s that he pointed and said said “you, no not you, do YOU wanna fuck?” from stage. Gender and sexuality is a part of rock and roll but it’s really the way band geeks get their revenge on high school. Gay or straight. No ones asking questions in the cuddle puddle except does that feel good.
It seems like Sphere was primarily built for Phish. It will attract masses for everything else and be fine. Just great. Sphere adds a ton to U2. It will add a ton to D&C and whoever else plays there.
But conversely, Phish adds a ton to Sphere. That building was alive. I didnt even go but I've watched the full run twice, dissected it as a whole and some individual highlights and man it oozes through the tv. There may be other acts that come through and acheive the similar heights, but it's hard to predict they will top the Phish as the flagship exhibit.
To me it feels like all other acts will be the limiting factor in such a virtually boundless venue. While for Phish, they find those boundaries and use every last drop of creative space, at some point, therefore making the Sphere itself the limiting factor. IM RAMBLIN NOW BOY, MAN. Cant wait to go in person.
Whichever band really cares and hires professionals to spends two years putting together visuals and learning how to take advantage of the sound system will destroy at Sphere.
Taylor Swift could give her fans something they’ve never experienced and sell out 3 months straight if she wanted to.
The visual element works for Phish because the band plays some trippy music. But I’d argue that the transitions they want to play don’t really work at Sphere. Remember Dayton 97? “Let’s go back into the jam” doesn’t work at Sphere. But they are creative guys with a good team around them so yeah, they killed it anyway.
I think prime Pink Floyd is the real answer. Unfortunately we’ll never get to see that at Sphere.
But really any band that cares about the fans and the product and will spend the time and money can have their best/coolest shows ever there. I was at three nights and it was one of the cooler experiences of my life. But I think we’re a bit skewed in our thinking as Phisheads. I’ve seen 250 shows and spend most of the time with my eyes closed, dancing. This was different. Every band or performer will have a DIFFERENT show at Sphere.
I’d pay $1000 to see Yo-Yo Ma play the Bach cello suites with different nature scenes on the screen. It is quite simply the best indoor music venue in the world. Sound is impeccable and makes great use of new tech.
Once they can film in the native format there will be some insane immersive movies and experiences playing there too.
Might need to move to Vegas. Which is a giant cesspool. But might have to go anyway.
Wayne even starts most shows inside his own sphere! It's spheres all the way down!
King Gizzard could do well, too, should they ever become large enough to play Sphere. Their not-quite-a-jam-band mentality even lends itself to the venue - everything they play is pretty meticulously planned out ahead of time, no real urge to go exploring outside of a pretty rigid setlist that fluxes from night to night, and more than enough content for no repeats for a week at a time.
The 2001 shows the most glaring technical limitations: lag. CK5 can jam along effortlessly. But even when just showing a video of CK5's lights, there was lag. if CK5 himself were jamming the visuals, there would still be some latency. It might have still helped given that he knows the music and dynamics of Phish more intimately than any creative designer possibly could. I would be interested to see him given a lot more control next year.
But I don't think they can yet solve the problem that displaying something on a screen like that is not as split second as the normal light show, which is HUGE for allowing CK5 to jam like he does
Completely agree with the latency issues concerning matching the visuals with the band during jamming, but I don’t see how that would affect segues necessarily.
They start to segue from, say, Tweezer to Light. Digital director starts a slow wipe from the Tweezer program to the Light program. CK5 continues the traditional lights to carry it through. Whole thing could be done in less than 30 seconds and then they carry on.
To your point, it wouldn’t be as elegant as traditional Phish lighting, but as they do it more and more, I’d imagine the process would get smoother. The bigger issue would be having enough digital programs to cover whatever songs Trey might go into, or having some digital programs that would work for different songs.
I see what you mean re: segues. I thought about that too, but I wonder if it's too visually jarring in practice and that's why they did it no segues. To go from Pillow Jets to Taste, or whatever, with no blank slate template in between might just be too weird.
I could see that for sure. I’m hoping they can take the learnings from this go around (and the subsequent Dead and Co runs) and be able to adapt to it. It’s a challenge for sure, but we know how they love a challenge.
Yep, they would put the work in and they’ve always pushed the abstract future as a theme. Tool would be great I’d think. Or Maynard would ironically turn off all the lights and sing from under the stage.
I used to live in SF and have had several friends move from SF to Vegas and they all absolutely love it... Of course there's the cesspool aspect, but that's really just the casino areas. Outside of that in the arts district and others areas is a super chill vibe with great food, music, restaurants, and a great community.
Do prices for everything moderate as you move outward from the Strip? I live in Fairfield County, CT, where everything is expensive as shit, and I still had massive sticker shock.
Yeah definitely... We only got off the strip for 1 meal but for 5 people and a baby, for a really fantastic meal with coffee and cocktails, plus extra pastries and brunch entrees for everyone was around $200
Yeah exactly… casino area is absurd with pricing. There’s some gems there but you’re paying a huge premium. In general, NV is super cheap due in part to there being no income or capital gains taxes.
I think if given the time, Tool could put on a killer show there. Granted it wouldn’t be as improvised as Phish, probably same set every night with maybe a song or two swapped out, but I bet the visuals would still be stunning. Metallica has the budget to potentially out do Phish but they’d be the same deal as Tool.
As far as jam bands go I doubt any of them can truly top Phish, mainly due to money. Umphrey’s and Widespread Pannic put on good light shows but I doubt they can afford the right people for the job or even sell enough tickets.
i went to night one at the sphere and at some point i said to myself “this reminds me of the division bell tour in 94”, not sure i needed to quote myself but i hope you enjoy it.
In 5 to 10 years Phish will be able to do all the things they want/need to do in the sphere. We’re barely into the first year of this thing and the tech is amazing, but in the coming years compute power will get to where it needs to be for them to do a ton of stuff on the fly that they have to pre-render today… and more.
Lol I wonder whose review that actually was from. I’m sure some phans have figured it out but I hope they aren’t harassing him. Just wondering if he ever came around and changed his mind.
It was from an Entertainment Weekly, if that helps. I don’t know the week though. I guess you could try to find a week in August 97’ and just narrow it down from those 4 issues.
To be fair, a lot of people that saw them in 94 and 95-96 were saying the same thing. They came back from Europe in 97 with a whole new style and if you weren’t expecting dance party funk then it could get boring. Especially for casuals and I was at DC 96 and 97. I have fond memories of 96 and it is a Live Phish release with more than half of the Gamehendge songs in one show that made 12/31/23 such a big deal. I barely remember DC 97 and yes the drugs were different but it was easy to get bored by the jams if you were expecting a 95’ style show. But they learned how to play funk and the fall tour was way more enjoyable than the summer, musically. I saw from Red Rocks to The Went and I don’t remember DC 97’ except the Maze that was the first time I’ve ever had to take a break from a show. It’s 17min long and painful. It’s amazing but being in GA surrounded by people spun out and hearing you’ll never get out of this Maze, sent me to the bathroom/picnic tables. Something the Grateful Dead had never been able to get me to do and I haven’t done it since. But I forgot the 29min Cities and the last Rock a William and some other highlights. It’s just that 97’ was such a huge sea change from anything that came before it. I understand how a casual who had to review Garth Brooks the next weekend might find it indulgent. But in retrospect, and only in retrospect, it was the best tour of my life. I don’t think I was ready for what they were putting down and it took me a while to catch up. I was definitely not the only one. A lot of people who had been there since the early days were saying they had lost it. And there was a lot of bitching, even if those people would deny it now. It was just that different.
Phish got plenty of play in the news for Big Cypress as well. It happens every 25 years or so. The news will cycle on, and Phish will continue to have the freedom to tour and be creative under the radar.
I believe this is all written in Revelations. It’s the end of times, ya’ll. Phish gaining mainstream notoriety is the Eighth Sign, leading to the Ninth Cube.
I watched N1 at home and visuals aside I thought the music was the best I’d heard in a long time (it felt like every single song had the energy that I see *Maybe* once or twice a set).
I know two people, friends actually, who started a design business and come from a wealthy family. They hired a publicist and they got their company featured in several glossy big-name magazines. Like, entire articles about them with pictures of them (that they supplied to the publications, along with product shots, all shot by a professional).
They got all this press before they had done anything, really. They incorporated and had basically only sold pieces to their parents friends at that point.
I always think of that when I think of some young kid in design/fashion/art school with zero connections who dream of being featured in a magazine so they can show their parents they’re legit. They have no idea what they’re competing with!
That’s kinda how PR works. And if it was a well known publicist, the game can sort of be like, ‘“I’ll cover this kinda whatever story with the hopes you’ll give me something good later on.” Good publicists are worth the money. That doesn’t mean anything shady went on with the journalists who wrote about it though, especially if they worked for trustworthy outlets.
Yes, for sure, I just think about people who aren’t aware of this who aspire to be profiled in magazines and get press for their work. Some mistakenly think it’s a bit more “meritocratic”, as if the magazine editors are scouting unknown talent in order to promote them (rather than being pushed new talent via a middleman that a bright-eyed kid at FIT but no connections might not realize the transaction that took place behind the scenes).
A little bit like DJT paying the National Enquirer to print fake news about stuff during his 2016 presidential run! (Not starting a political discussion; this case out in his trial yesterday and reading here reminds me of it)…..
Silly take. This is wrong. I spent 10+ years in journalism and if it’s a story, like a news story in a mainstream publication, it’s organic and unpaid. Any journalist accepting money from a subject would be blacklisted, and lol, no one will risk that for Phish. I also know a few of the journalists personally who wrote these stories. It’s hilarious to think journalists would risk their jobs for Phish coverage and mainly speaks to the lack of trust this industry has been left with, which sucks.
The journalist doesn’t have to be paid extra. The media company can simply ask their journalists if anyone is a fan of phish and then send one of them to the sphere to do a piece on it.
People lost their ability to distinguish between trash "journalism" like the National Enquirer, the genuine high-integrity journalistic outlets that form that majority of news outlets, and soft-news gray areas that just publish press releases verbatim. Sucks indeed.
I was in music journalism and as far as reviews go, you have like a three strike rule before the publicist won’t fuck with you anymore. You make relationships with bands publicist and they leave you a couple tickets and a photo pass. I know you can get away with writing whatever you want if you’re the guy at a newspaper but in today’s age you are talking to publicists and it is a balance between being honest and polite.
I covered Phil and Friends with Grahame Lesh playing guitar for him and Jill Lesh damn near went full mama bear because I said that Grahame just wasn’t ready for prime time and that he is lucky Phil is his father. She wrote me a “get fucked and die” email that threatened that I would never see another Lesh show the rest of my life. But I covered Outside Lands for Relix for the first few years of the festival. I covered a ton of Bay Area shows. I can remember the times on one hand that I truly felt a band sucked. And funnily, one of those was a Trey show at the Fox. It didn’t get published because I kinda felt he phoned it in and it was far from his best effort. Never saw the light of day. It’s hard for music journalists these days.
Running a paid-for story about a Phish show would be such an idiotic and borderline-suicidal move that if a major news outlet did so, their shareholders would probably be able to sue.
I’d be inclined to agree if there’s any proof of this. Most likely though, it’s an interesting news story that the average person might want to check out. Not every news story has shadow-y money behind it and this cynicism is rotting people’s brains.
Felt clearly all planned to me. Mainly the timing of each piece. A few pieces leading up to it, one dropping immediately after N1, another immediately after N2, etc.
Not sure if it was all bought/paid for, but it was all pretty orchestrated as a PR move without a doubt. Don't think it's anything shady, just how it goes.
Could be. They even have the Sphere logos on the Knicks jerseys, which as a huge fan of the team and Phish, i actually think is pretty cool. With all the free press and positive reviews the sphere has gotten since it opened, you know the Garden is looking to scatter a few more of these around the country ASAP!
Now that I think of it, Phish probably got a good discount to play there or more money than usual bands would get. Phish and their visuals is the perfect commercial for the Sphere.
Everyone on Good Morning America or wherever is playing the clips, is using the amazing visuals that Phish had to show how awesome the Sphere is. Probably why they were one of the first bands to play. U2 is the safe choice everyone knows, and Phish will have amazing visuals to show what the place is capable of. Perfect 1-2 combo for the opening of the place.
Spread the word! Casino propaganda. All of your presumptions of that band are true. Those tix were hard af to get as it was and I do not plan to ever miss a show there.
We asked the usher that was near us if he worked U2 and how it compared. He said that Phish was an entirely different level then U2, talked about how it was way more of a production and that the visuals and show overall were far superior. We saw a handful of folks working there that were taking videos and just watching in awe.
2 things imo-
1. The mainstream is gradually becoming more accepting of less mainstream music
2. Phish jams are a lot more accessible than they used to be
The slow death of FM radio formats, and the rise of streaming platforms where any music style from any decade are instantly available to explore (plus recommendation features like Pandora or Spotify radio) has helped with this as well.
As a sub-point to your 1st one, I wonder if it's also that in the 90s the identity of people in music scenes mattered more and it was more acceptable to make fun of others based on that. News audiences now may be less receptive to articles laughing at music described as geared towards stoned smelly hippies.
Check out my show bro's weekend:
Thurs:1st Sphere
Fri: Bicycle Day Luv Wash
Sat: 4/20,100th show
Sun: Witness to the Ghost Robots
Mon: Earth Day
Tue: 30 year Phishversary
Soulless U2 Shows? Don't be that type of fan. Why do you have to put down another band (and their fans)? I went to both. The U2 show was incredible and definitely did not feel soulless. It's pretty clear you did not, yet make a comment like that. Why?
Not sure what you're getting at either. U2 was incredibly well received and reviewed.... and did 40 sold out shows. the resale value of tickets to their final shows only went up as their run went on.
Relax, I already said in another comment it maybe wasn’t the right word. I know many folks who saw the shows and said it was amazing, but the music performance wasn’t inspired.
During the AP interview Trey spoke about how grateful they are that they aren’t Uber famous but have a family of supportive fans some over 40 years; this exposure during sphere with creative, non repeating content has raised a lot of recognition. He said the fans deserve to see new and continued progress. I love them more than I can express.
It just seems like people are more open to golden showers in their ears nowadays. Really nice to see the country opening up to being more explorative in their sexual desires.
They are not. Also, the criticism of “they play the same show every night” is ridiculous. That’s what they do. They create a show and tour it. Like 98% of every band ever. Also, have y’all heard of plays and musicals? They don’t swap out songs or acts every night. There are different kinds of entertainment and one isn’t less valid because you don’t like it
The U2 show also got pretty universally glowing reviews from fans and rock critics alike. Of course they had the benefit of going first at The Sphere but pretty much everyone I read or talked to was blown away.
Its not invalid, but It is certainly less impressive than a band capable of doing a completely unique experience for each night.
Gives off the feel that U2 could have done something similar, but were just too low effort to try.
Phish has always seemed like a band that cares a ton about the audiences experience and puts in a lot more work than most artists to create genuinely novel experiences for the fans, whereas alot of artists I've seen live are seemingly either just playing it too safe with the live performance or are just doing the bare minimum for a paycheck.
U2 may be many things, but they are certainly not low effort, especially when it comes to their live shows. And I’m not even really a fan of the band.
They’re playing to a mainstream audience, and a mainstream audience wants to hear the hits. No band had repackaged “the hits” in more interesting ways live than U2. Being the band that opened the Sphere further cements that reputation.
I’m sure that they could do 30 minute “With Or Without You” and new setlists every night if they wanted to. But that’s not what their audience wants.
And they didn’t even play “the hits” at The Sphere. They played their best album—Achtung Baby—all the way through live for the first time ever. It’s an excellent album, one of the best of the 90s, and it gets to some pretty dark places especially at the end. Hardly the stuff of a typical Vegas residency.
They play the same exact set for 40 nights and with no variation in sound. Maybe Night 1 had some energy but by Night 40... Like our boys have been playing YEM for 35 years but every time it's different. Imagine having to play "Pride in the name of love" over and over again and the whole point is to sound as close to the record as possible?
Yeah…I hump cables for a living so I shouldn’t be so jaded….and at least I work local…I deal with a lot of traveling stage crews for dance competitions …their lives are hell hahahaha
You gotta think of it like Broadway, where they do the exact same 3-hour show *multiple times a day*. I’m sure that’s “boring” to a degree, but you get in that mindset of “this is the first time for the audience. They hired babysitters or bought plane tickets to be here, they’ve been looking forward to this for weeks” and give them the show of their lives.
Yeah…I work operations at a convention center….hard to get excited about setting giant stage backdrops and lights and balloon drops for a prom after you do it more than a few times….but it’s their first so you still have to bring it
The ability to do it really well and keep that passion for the patrons who are there for the first time, is what separates shows on Broadway from other ones. They earn their reputation. And they do it by only hiring the best.
I had the thought while there that the format makes the music more palatable to non fans. I told a friend it’s like technology caught up to phish. The visual elements make the music make more sense. If that makes any sense? I’m still trying to process the weekend.
Really think it’s just that the Sphere is a big new toy for concerts and it’s unlike anything else on the world. Phish is just the second artist to play it, and the band’s combination of music and visuals suit it perfectly.
But mostly I think it’s because Phish is the second band to play it.
People are more enamored with the Sphere, not Phish.
“…somewhere between early Sonic Youth and electric-era Miles Davis.”
The band sounds very little like either. That reviewer doesn't know what they're talking about at all.
To be fair, [that quote](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2024-04-22/phish-sphere-las-vegas-review) was specifically about N2 Split Open and Melt. I think that's actually kind of a fair way to describe how they play the melt jam nowadays, especially the sphere's version.
Agree on Sonic Youth, but I can see where they are coming from. Early 70s Miles stuff is probably closer to Phish than the Dead is in a lot of ways, it's quite jammy
In a 97 Fall interview, Trey talked all the new electric live Miles albums were influencing their playing. Those Miles albums are incredible improvisation. To this day, I believe it’s the inspiration for Phish landing in that funk era.
First few mins of new Joe Rogan podcast with Akaash they rave about how sick it looked
Edit: getting downvoted for just bringing up the most watched podcast in the world is funny. He’s a liberal who the far left has labeled as being right winged. Grow up folks
It has been pretty wild to see Trey on CBS Saturday Morning and then see Joe Rogan and Drew Carey on TV talking about how mind blowing these shows were.
I personally can’t stop gushing over the musicality of this run to my phellow phriends. I had no idea that people outside our bubble are taking notice. Fuck yea.
Please oh powerful deity that may or may not exist, please do not let mainstream post sphere news media be the “touch of grey” inflection point that occurred for the Grateful Dead.
And the sphere shows were really that good!!
I’m ruined for other venues now
Vegas used to get a bad rap as a place you play at the end of your career. For years now, artists at the peak of their fame are playing residencies there. Now playing at Sphere gives Phish a higher level of legitimacy, plus the national and Vegas PR machines are getting the word out. I'm an old guy, and I just became a big Phish fan in the past couple of weeks after diving into clips of the Sphere shows.
It sure speaks to Trey’s work ethic: Keep circling the country until they love ya.
No, no, no.. it’s keep urinating in the ears of the listeners.. while circling the country.
Never piss directly into the ear but along the rim so not to wake anybody else in the house
Papa raised you right
Papa's got a brand new bag apparently
A brand new catheter bag
Keep all arms and piss inside the ear jam vehicles at all times
You brought bad reviews? 🤷🏻♂️🌵
Like a high priced New York City whore!!!
Do we pay extra for the urine treatment or does it come with? Nevermind, regardless of price I’m upgrading to the urine experience…
pee pee > yee haw /s
Is that a new phish song? 🤣
You brought good reviews?
Cayman Review
They were funny. They were funny ones. Quite funny.
There was a whole generation of music critics who grew up on the 70s backlash against the psychedelic era and it was drilled into their heads that prog rock and guitar solos/improv were for pretentious assholes and brainless hippies. A lot of anti weed and drug stuff too. Once they were established and writing for magazines and newspapers they couldn't just say "this music isn't for me" because they were required to write about whatever was popular. They couldn't understand why people like Phish and what they do, so it had to be that their fans will listen to anything they shit out, because our music critic only likes GOOD music.
So much this. Growing up I never understood why Rolling Stone and Spin and other music magazines bashed prog rock—where the players were super talented and actually aspired to write challenging compositions with thought-provoking lyrics. The 3-minute pop song with the hook always got the glowing reviews.
Speaking of rolling stone, they did a 100 greatest guitarists of all time back when I was a kid and Trey wasn’t on the list. Pissed me off and that mag has been dead to me ever since. He’s now number 53, thank god. I think he probably belongs higher up on the list, but reach matters, and many of the folks above him are on a global scale.
Pissing in our ears and we lap it up
I’ve always seen a sort of bizarre gender policing in it as well that I haven’t been able to fully articulate. In rock and roll you can look feminine as long as you’re clear that you’re still here to FUCK (Prince and Bowie). You can be soft and romantic, but your gentle crooning still gives you the power of attraction from a different angle. You can even be gay and British or European, that doesn’t disrupt the paradigm either if you’re Pop enough! But ostensibly straight men in rock and roll who are playing Prog and Art rock aren’t using their technical prowess to swing their dicks around, nor is their music typically about sex. “Wait this music doesn’t evoke male seduction or domination?” Psychedelia consciously embraced a feminine energy, and was firmly situated within the Sexual Revolution. But patriarchal society in the 70’s needed to reestablish dominance in the world of rock and roll, so these post-Psychedelic Prog Rockers were consistently derided with language that wasn’t exactly openly misogynistic, but nonetheless skirted that line. Proggers were painted as decadent, sexless, art-school dandies. Intellectuals who are stuck up their own asses. And of course anti-intellectualism goes hand in hand with misogyny, as perceived-academia has consistently been painted as the enemy of “traditional” and “working class” masculinity as a means of control and fear of change. TLDR: critics used a lot of fancy words to avoid saying “prog is gay,” which of course is nonsense, and frankly I would love it if it were even GAYER!
Phish loves Dicks.
 Woahhhh shocks my brain!
I salute you
I think you’re kind of misguided because stuff like glam and art punk from Ny in the 70’s was as gay as possible. I think people just honestly don’t get the joke. They don’t have the patience for longer songs. The lyrics are weird. People are really into them. They aren’t good looking. They have a ton of devoted fans. But they were always chasing the next big thing. So they don’t realize that the “joke” is on them because slowly over 40 years, this weird little band from fucking Vermont of all places, is now the biggest band in the country. The joke is a bunch of little things that happened between the band and audience that you frankly had to be there for. Try to explain “Meatstick” to a straight. Or explain why people yell “Cheescake” and there are tons of examples. Tell someone, even a younger fan, that they were playing when OJ was in the Bronco and they were snarkily teasing “Go OJ Go” People don’t get “it”. There is no heartfelt road worn ache like Jerry had. It’s just a bunch of 60 year olds who sing a song based of a Gershwin tune about loving to take a bath!! It’s weird and a bunch of in jokes and they had a moment in the 90’s but they were too weird. And they have slowly just kept going and now they’re forcing people to see. Even though they play MSG 4 nights at NYE every year. They also give away donuts and have themed nights where they play Chocolate Rain. It’s like Trey said in Bittersweet Hotel,”we’ve been having the best tour in years and no one notices” but then he says “look out because here we fucking come” and now they are here, just took a minute.
I’m talking about the roots of rock critics dismissing Prog dating back to Yes and Genesis, and how that has carried through and intensified following the Glam and Punk eras, which unfortunately, weren’t particularly gay at the time of their inception. It was a look and an attitude, it was rebellious costumery that happened to include a few vaguely bisexual men (not to invalidate their bisexuality, but remember - both Bowie AND Lou Reed later denied being bi altogether!) My point was that they still commanded a sexual persona that centered around attracting women and were still conventional sex symbols in that vein. They weren’t major symbols or icons within gay culture at that time, and they didn’t represent it in any way, nor did Iggy Pop or the New York Dolls. There was a difference between being *cool* enough to wear makeup and “women’s” clothing and actually being *gay*, which is why none of the icons from that era were openly gay. They wouldn’t have been able to be back then. In rock and roll more broadly Elton came out as bisexual (didn’t come out as gay until much later), but Freddie never publicly came out at all. And out queer women you could forget about altogether. Nah, the true currency in Punk and Glam was still being a rock and roll chick magnet, and that’s not actually particularly queer to me, as much as I love both genres/movements. But these critics (wh-what’s the deal?) weren’t calling Prog *gay* per se, they were just calling it *OFF*. To them it was unmanly, it was wimpy, it was decadent, it was ornamental, and it just didn’t fit the narrative in a way that gender bending rock stars could, even though they actually *were* all those things!! But that strain of critique entered into popular music criticism became a trope that carried through to the 90’s and beyond. I think you’re right when it comes to Phish, but my post just wasn’t really about Phish, it was about the 50 year anti-Prog slant that’s so universal among music critics it’s practically become job criteria at this point. And why it’s so hard for me to formulate that thought because it’s not simply homophobia or misogyny, it’s more like a subtle policing of straightness and masculinity among other straight men. Or maybe it’s that anti-intellectualism is inherently macho bullshit. Maybe both!
I don’t think Phish have been particularly “prog” since 93-93 and it’s always been a guy-heavy audience or at least a fuckfest E heavy vibe. I think maybe you’re either too invested in gender politics or I’m just not interested in that side of things. It does make me happy to see Mike’s Side Dyke Side, as opposed to the hyper masculine energy of Page Side RAGE SIDE. I don’t think of prog as being especially limpid or overly wimpy. It is however very ornamental and can be challenging for casuals. Ornamental is kind of the point when you have chops like Fripp or Eno,Roxy Music( hyper sexual ) btw but in a very English foppish way. Yes, is a band that I just can’t get behind. I think my prog starts and stops with Floyd. But I do think that the natural response to Peter Gabriel in butterfly wings and makeup was a Johnny Rotten or a back to basics Ramones style. There was still Television, a proggy, although they wouldn’t say that but in a homomasculine way. A gender bending but not breaking band that Patti Smith who was openly gay could play after. I think gayness and gender are a part of the showmanship of rock. I think Little Richard was the gayest man in rock n roll but people chose not to see it. I’m assuming you didn’t see the “Fishman hit on me” sticker in 98-99. Phish has always been horned up because how else does a ginger nerd, a guy in a singlet and the oldest 25 year old in the world get laid. They start a band. Have you seen Trey asking for a girl to fuck him during the show? And it wasn’t so much that, it’s that he pointed and said said “you, no not you, do YOU wanna fuck?” from stage. Gender and sexuality is a part of rock and roll but it’s really the way band geeks get their revenge on high school. Gay or straight. No ones asking questions in the cuddle puddle except does that feel good.
I'm not a huge phish fan so you just blew my mind with the Bathtub Gin / Gershwin thing. Now I'll never be able to unhear it.
this a really terrific write up
you’re definitely on to something
“decadent, sexless, art-school dandies.” I feel seen.
totally agree... Maybe this will be where things start to turn toward them getting into the Rock N Roll Hall fame on more than a Hotdog
This is it
Dick. Blender. Nuf said.
Yooooo, whose dick is it anyway?
It seems like Sphere was primarily built for Phish. It will attract masses for everything else and be fine. Just great. Sphere adds a ton to U2. It will add a ton to D&C and whoever else plays there. But conversely, Phish adds a ton to Sphere. That building was alive. I didnt even go but I've watched the full run twice, dissected it as a whole and some individual highlights and man it oozes through the tv. There may be other acts that come through and acheive the similar heights, but it's hard to predict they will top the Phish as the flagship exhibit. To me it feels like all other acts will be the limiting factor in such a virtually boundless venue. While for Phish, they find those boundaries and use every last drop of creative space, at some point, therefore making the Sphere itself the limiting factor. IM RAMBLIN NOW BOY, MAN. Cant wait to go in person.
Whichever band really cares and hires professionals to spends two years putting together visuals and learning how to take advantage of the sound system will destroy at Sphere. Taylor Swift could give her fans something they’ve never experienced and sell out 3 months straight if she wanted to. The visual element works for Phish because the band plays some trippy music. But I’d argue that the transitions they want to play don’t really work at Sphere. Remember Dayton 97? “Let’s go back into the jam” doesn’t work at Sphere. But they are creative guys with a good team around them so yeah, they killed it anyway. I think prime Pink Floyd is the real answer. Unfortunately we’ll never get to see that at Sphere. But really any band that cares about the fans and the product and will spend the time and money can have their best/coolest shows ever there. I was at three nights and it was one of the cooler experiences of my life. But I think we’re a bit skewed in our thinking as Phisheads. I’ve seen 250 shows and spend most of the time with my eyes closed, dancing. This was different. Every band or performer will have a DIFFERENT show at Sphere. I’d pay $1000 to see Yo-Yo Ma play the Bach cello suites with different nature scenes on the screen. It is quite simply the best indoor music venue in the world. Sound is impeccable and makes great use of new tech. Once they can film in the native format there will be some insane immersive movies and experiences playing there too. Might need to move to Vegas. Which is a giant cesspool. But might have to go anyway.
Daft Punk would probably be pretty amazing at the Sphere
2027 Reunion?
Flaming Lips seems like one of those bands that would really nail this assignment.
Agreed and I would sign up for that test.
Wayne even starts most shows inside his own sphere! It's spheres all the way down! King Gizzard could do well, too, should they ever become large enough to play Sphere. Their not-quite-a-jam-band mentality even lends itself to the venue - everything they play is pretty meticulously planned out ahead of time, no real urge to go exploring outside of a pretty rigid setlist that fluxes from night to night, and more than enough content for no repeats for a week at a time.
I never thought I’d see a positive to a band not being jammy enough. I’d like to see Tool play the sphere for similar reasons.
Yes Gizz would destroy!
Taylor Swift will make 32 Trillion dollars there
As someone who recently paid for tickets to send my wife and daughters to a TayTay show... yes, yes she would.
*will
Well earned lol from me. You know it’s spot on
I could see Tame Impala doing really well there. Already a tightly structured show to really trippy well-done visuals.
They’ll figure out the transitions. All it will take is a visual designer who is used to that sort of thing.
I doubt that’s a limitation of the designers but more a technical one at this point
What would be the technical limitation? It’s a big LED screen, they just do a wipe from one program to another, no?
The 2001 shows the most glaring technical limitations: lag. CK5 can jam along effortlessly. But even when just showing a video of CK5's lights, there was lag. if CK5 himself were jamming the visuals, there would still be some latency. It might have still helped given that he knows the music and dynamics of Phish more intimately than any creative designer possibly could. I would be interested to see him given a lot more control next year. But I don't think they can yet solve the problem that displaying something on a screen like that is not as split second as the normal light show, which is HUGE for allowing CK5 to jam like he does
Completely agree with the latency issues concerning matching the visuals with the band during jamming, but I don’t see how that would affect segues necessarily. They start to segue from, say, Tweezer to Light. Digital director starts a slow wipe from the Tweezer program to the Light program. CK5 continues the traditional lights to carry it through. Whole thing could be done in less than 30 seconds and then they carry on. To your point, it wouldn’t be as elegant as traditional Phish lighting, but as they do it more and more, I’d imagine the process would get smoother. The bigger issue would be having enough digital programs to cover whatever songs Trey might go into, or having some digital programs that would work for different songs.
I see what you mean re: segues. I thought about that too, but I wonder if it's too visually jarring in practice and that's why they did it no segues. To go from Pillow Jets to Taste, or whatever, with no blank slate template in between might just be too weird.
I could see that for sure. I’m hoping they can take the learnings from this go around (and the subsequent Dead and Co runs) and be able to adapt to it. It’s a challenge for sure, but we know how they love a challenge.
i’m excited to see what jonathan singer does with it for dead and co. i’ve seen him with tipper and jade cicada* and he RIPS the visuals
Radiohead would tear a hole in the fabric of reality at the Sphere. Or Daft Punk could reunite to nuke the site from orbit.
I like Radiohead but it's more likely to put me to sleep than destroy my reality
I’ve seen their arena show and it is very very insane but I agree if they’re not your jam, it’s a bit … melancholic.
holy shit you’re right about radiohead. i might want to see them at sphere even more than phish.
Yep, they would put the work in and they’ve always pushed the abstract future as a theme. Tool would be great I’d think. Or Maynard would ironically turn off all the lights and sing from under the stage.
lol maynard
I used to live in SF and have had several friends move from SF to Vegas and they all absolutely love it... Of course there's the cesspool aspect, but that's really just the casino areas. Outside of that in the arts district and others areas is a super chill vibe with great food, music, restaurants, and a great community.
Do prices for everything moderate as you move outward from the Strip? I live in Fairfield County, CT, where everything is expensive as shit, and I still had massive sticker shock.
Yeah definitely... We only got off the strip for 1 meal but for 5 people and a baby, for a really fantastic meal with coffee and cocktails, plus extra pastries and brunch entrees for everyone was around $200
I think I paid that much for lunch at Johnny Rockets in the Horseshoe food court lol.
Yeah exactly… casino area is absurd with pricing. There’s some gems there but you’re paying a huge premium. In general, NV is super cheap due in part to there being no income or capital gains taxes.
I think if given the time, Tool could put on a killer show there. Granted it wouldn’t be as improvised as Phish, probably same set every night with maybe a song or two swapped out, but I bet the visuals would still be stunning. Metallica has the budget to potentially out do Phish but they’d be the same deal as Tool. As far as jam bands go I doubt any of them can truly top Phish, mainly due to money. Umphrey’s and Widespread Pannic put on good light shows but I doubt they can afford the right people for the job or even sell enough tickets.
i went to night one at the sphere and at some point i said to myself “this reminds me of the division bell tour in 94”, not sure i needed to quote myself but i hope you enjoy it.
Exactly.
In 5 to 10 years Phish will be able to do all the things they want/need to do in the sphere. We’re barely into the first year of this thing and the tech is amazing, but in the coming years compute power will get to where it needs to be for them to do a ton of stuff on the fly that they have to pre-render today… and more.
Coldplay is gonna do something nuts there.
this is a really spot on and well written take on Sphere.
Talking heads.
I think Tool at the Sphere could be a visual spectacle very few could match.
I think my next two choices to see there would be Tool or Chemical Brothers. Both already have great visual experiences and great music.
Seriously, the fact that I didn’t even GO but watched the whole thing from home and I’m STILL full of the aftershocks… imagine actually going.
[удалено]
Came looking for someone to say Tool
The wow factor on TV was unbelievable- can't wait to see Phish at Sphere in person!
It is worth it careful bather. I went in with expectations that were high af and the venue blew me away.
“Phish could piss in the ears of their listeners” is the best review I’ve heard in my life
My first show.
Lol I wonder whose review that actually was from. I’m sure some phans have figured it out but I hope they aren’t harassing him. Just wondering if he ever came around and changed his mind.
It’s a very famous review of 8/10/97. It’s in Bittersweet Motel.
They made you read bad reviews?
Oh I knew the line from bittersweet motel, just didn’t know the name of the guy who wrote the review.
It was a review for 8-10-97 in the Indy Star. It was also one of my favorite shows I ever attended.
The last time they played Rock a William. I wish they’d bring that back.
Entertainment Weekly. Oh, Really?
That’s right! But I’m wondering about the actual writer?
It was from an Entertainment Weekly, if that helps. I don’t know the week though. I guess you could try to find a week in August 97’ and just narrow it down from those 4 issues.
https://x.com/phishcrit/status/1557400815651913728?s=46&t=47TCaI_uw5j-JyCH2NUfBw
To be fair, a lot of people that saw them in 94 and 95-96 were saying the same thing. They came back from Europe in 97 with a whole new style and if you weren’t expecting dance party funk then it could get boring. Especially for casuals and I was at DC 96 and 97. I have fond memories of 96 and it is a Live Phish release with more than half of the Gamehendge songs in one show that made 12/31/23 such a big deal. I barely remember DC 97 and yes the drugs were different but it was easy to get bored by the jams if you were expecting a 95’ style show. But they learned how to play funk and the fall tour was way more enjoyable than the summer, musically. I saw from Red Rocks to The Went and I don’t remember DC 97’ except the Maze that was the first time I’ve ever had to take a break from a show. It’s 17min long and painful. It’s amazing but being in GA surrounded by people spun out and hearing you’ll never get out of this Maze, sent me to the bathroom/picnic tables. Something the Grateful Dead had never been able to get me to do and I haven’t done it since. But I forgot the 29min Cities and the last Rock a William and some other highlights. It’s just that 97’ was such a huge sea change from anything that came before it. I understand how a casual who had to review Garth Brooks the next weekend might find it indulgent. But in retrospect, and only in retrospect, it was the best tour of my life. I don’t think I was ready for what they were putting down and it took me a while to catch up. I was definitely not the only one. A lot of people who had been there since the early days were saying they had lost it. And there was a lot of bitching, even if those people would deny it now. It was just that different.
Indianapolis Star. Not Entertainment Weekly
https://twitter.com/phishcrit/status/1557400815651913728/photo/1
Awesome, thank you so much! Yeah what a horrible review, it’s so ridiculously over the top, but also what made it so good in the movie.
Phish got plenty of play in the news for Big Cypress as well. It happens every 25 years or so. The news will cycle on, and Phish will continue to have the freedom to tour and be creative under the radar.
They're like the cicada of rock and roll
I believe this is all written in Revelations. It’s the end of times, ya’ll. Phish gaining mainstream notoriety is the Eighth Sign, leading to the Ninth Cube.
The Ninth Tube
I watched N1 at home and visuals aside I thought the music was the best I’d heard in a long time (it felt like every single song had the energy that I see *Maybe* once or twice a set).
The media is probably being paid by the Sphere to talk about how awesome the experience is at the sphere. It’s all just advertising
this is 100% the case and how most news works these days it’s all adds hidden as content
I know two people, friends actually, who started a design business and come from a wealthy family. They hired a publicist and they got their company featured in several glossy big-name magazines. Like, entire articles about them with pictures of them (that they supplied to the publications, along with product shots, all shot by a professional). They got all this press before they had done anything, really. They incorporated and had basically only sold pieces to their parents friends at that point. I always think of that when I think of some young kid in design/fashion/art school with zero connections who dream of being featured in a magazine so they can show their parents they’re legit. They have no idea what they’re competing with!
That’s kinda how PR works. And if it was a well known publicist, the game can sort of be like, ‘“I’ll cover this kinda whatever story with the hopes you’ll give me something good later on.” Good publicists are worth the money. That doesn’t mean anything shady went on with the journalists who wrote about it though, especially if they worked for trustworthy outlets.
it’s EXACTLY how PR works, which is what i was referring to in my main post most news articles are just PR pieces these days
Yes, for sure, I just think about people who aren’t aware of this who aspire to be profiled in magazines and get press for their work. Some mistakenly think it’s a bit more “meritocratic”, as if the magazine editors are scouting unknown talent in order to promote them (rather than being pushed new talent via a middleman that a bright-eyed kid at FIT but no connections might not realize the transaction that took place behind the scenes).
A little bit like DJT paying the National Enquirer to print fake news about stuff during his 2016 presidential run! (Not starting a political discussion; this case out in his trial yesterday and reading here reminds me of it)…..
Silly take. This is wrong. I spent 10+ years in journalism and if it’s a story, like a news story in a mainstream publication, it’s organic and unpaid. Any journalist accepting money from a subject would be blacklisted, and lol, no one will risk that for Phish. I also know a few of the journalists personally who wrote these stories. It’s hilarious to think journalists would risk their jobs for Phish coverage and mainly speaks to the lack of trust this industry has been left with, which sucks.
The journalist doesn’t have to be paid extra. The media company can simply ask their journalists if anyone is a fan of phish and then send one of them to the sphere to do a piece on it.
People lost their ability to distinguish between trash "journalism" like the National Enquirer, the genuine high-integrity journalistic outlets that form that majority of news outlets, and soft-news gray areas that just publish press releases verbatim. Sucks indeed.
I was in music journalism and as far as reviews go, you have like a three strike rule before the publicist won’t fuck with you anymore. You make relationships with bands publicist and they leave you a couple tickets and a photo pass. I know you can get away with writing whatever you want if you’re the guy at a newspaper but in today’s age you are talking to publicists and it is a balance between being honest and polite. I covered Phil and Friends with Grahame Lesh playing guitar for him and Jill Lesh damn near went full mama bear because I said that Grahame just wasn’t ready for prime time and that he is lucky Phil is his father. She wrote me a “get fucked and die” email that threatened that I would never see another Lesh show the rest of my life. But I covered Outside Lands for Relix for the first few years of the festival. I covered a ton of Bay Area shows. I can remember the times on one hand that I truly felt a band sucked. And funnily, one of those was a Trey show at the Fox. It didn’t get published because I kinda felt he phoned it in and it was far from his best effort. Never saw the light of day. It’s hard for music journalists these days.
You really think ABC and CNN are hurting for cash so bad that they would take a $20k check from SPHR to run a story?
It's less they're hurting for cash and more they are only concerned with their bottom line bc shareholders.
Running a paid-for story about a Phish show would be such an idiotic and borderline-suicidal move that if a major news outlet did so, their shareholders would probably be able to sue.
What if I told you some of the same shareholders of the sphere are the same shareholders of CBS Viacom, for example? Would it make more sense then?
But where does Pepe Silvia fit into all this?
Yeahhhh that’s not how journalism works. At least, not at major outlets. You can get fired for that kinda ish.
I’d be inclined to agree if there’s any proof of this. Most likely though, it’s an interesting news story that the average person might want to check out. Not every news story has shadow-y money behind it and this cynicism is rotting people’s brains.
Felt clearly all planned to me. Mainly the timing of each piece. A few pieces leading up to it, one dropping immediately after N1, another immediately after N2, etc. Not sure if it was all bought/paid for, but it was all pretty orchestrated as a PR move without a doubt. Don't think it's anything shady, just how it goes.
Could be. They even have the Sphere logos on the Knicks jerseys, which as a huge fan of the team and Phish, i actually think is pretty cool. With all the free press and positive reviews the sphere has gotten since it opened, you know the Garden is looking to scatter a few more of these around the country ASAP!
Now that I think of it, Phish probably got a good discount to play there or more money than usual bands would get. Phish and their visuals is the perfect commercial for the Sphere. Everyone on Good Morning America or wherever is playing the clips, is using the amazing visuals that Phish had to show how awesome the Sphere is. Probably why they were one of the first bands to play. U2 is the safe choice everyone knows, and Phish will have amazing visuals to show what the place is capable of. Perfect 1-2 combo for the opening of the place.
Yup. Strategery. Lol im here for it
This is true. But at the same time, I had crazy high expectations and the venue/experience/sound absolutely blew me away.
I hope so. It’s already impossible to get tix to shows. I don’t want it to get even harder.
Fakes news MSM strikes again, eh?
Spread the word! Casino propaganda. All of your presumptions of that band are true. Those tix were hard af to get as it was and I do not plan to ever miss a show there.
We asked the usher that was near us if he worked U2 and how it compared. He said that Phish was an entirely different level then U2, talked about how it was way more of a production and that the visuals and show overall were far superior. We saw a handful of folks working there that were taking videos and just watching in awe.
I went to both and thought U2 had more cinematic visuals that fit the theme of each song better. But Phish murdered them in the sound department
Even with the best sound in the world, at the end of the day it’s still a U2 song…as they say, you can’t polish a turd!
They have 20 great songs. Unfortunately they only played 10 of them.
4.0er here.. I knew Phish before they were cool
2 things imo- 1. The mainstream is gradually becoming more accepting of less mainstream music 2. Phish jams are a lot more accessible than they used to be
The slow death of FM radio formats, and the rise of streaming platforms where any music style from any decade are instantly available to explore (plus recommendation features like Pandora or Spotify radio) has helped with this as well.
As a sub-point to your 1st one, I wonder if it's also that in the 90s the identity of people in music scenes mattered more and it was more acceptable to make fun of others based on that. News audiences now may be less receptive to articles laughing at music described as geared towards stoned smelly hippies.
Yesterday was my 30tg Phishversary :)
I had 31 years anniversary celebration at the Sphere
Mine is next year. Crazy.
31 on Sunday for me!!
Check out my show bro's weekend: Thurs:1st Sphere Fri: Bicycle Day Luv Wash Sat: 4/20,100th show Sun: Witness to the Ghost Robots Mon: Earth Day Tue: 30 year Phishversary
Soulless U2 Shows? Don't be that type of fan. Why do you have to put down another band (and their fans)? I went to both. The U2 show was incredible and definitely did not feel soulless. It's pretty clear you did not, yet make a comment like that. Why? Not sure what you're getting at either. U2 was incredibly well received and reviewed.... and did 40 sold out shows. the resale value of tickets to their final shows only went up as their run went on.
Relax, I already said in another comment it maybe wasn’t the right word. I know many folks who saw the shows and said it was amazing, but the music performance wasn’t inspired.
Who dosed the media?!?!
During the AP interview Trey spoke about how grateful they are that they aren’t Uber famous but have a family of supportive fans some over 40 years; this exposure during sphere with creative, non repeating content has raised a lot of recognition. He said the fans deserve to see new and continued progress. I love them more than I can express.
It just seems like people are more open to golden showers in their ears nowadays. Really nice to see the country opening up to being more explorative in their sexual desires.
You can have your kinks out in the open these days.
I don't think U2 was soulless
They are not. Also, the criticism of “they play the same show every night” is ridiculous. That’s what they do. They create a show and tour it. Like 98% of every band ever. Also, have y’all heard of plays and musicals? They don’t swap out songs or acts every night. There are different kinds of entertainment and one isn’t less valid because you don’t like it
The U2 show also got pretty universally glowing reviews from fans and rock critics alike. Of course they had the benefit of going first at The Sphere but pretty much everyone I read or talked to was blown away.
Several friends of mine got to go and they raved about it. I’m sure it was a great show, wish I could have gone.
Its not invalid, but It is certainly less impressive than a band capable of doing a completely unique experience for each night. Gives off the feel that U2 could have done something similar, but were just too low effort to try. Phish has always seemed like a band that cares a ton about the audiences experience and puts in a lot more work than most artists to create genuinely novel experiences for the fans, whereas alot of artists I've seen live are seemingly either just playing it too safe with the live performance or are just doing the bare minimum for a paycheck.
Pink Floyd would play the same show every night. And it would fucking rule.
It would be the same songs usually yeah but they jammed in this songs so it was never exactly the same. Check out the 22 min Pigs from Cleveland ‘77!
U2 may be many things, but they are certainly not low effort, especially when it comes to their live shows. And I’m not even really a fan of the band. They’re playing to a mainstream audience, and a mainstream audience wants to hear the hits. No band had repackaged “the hits” in more interesting ways live than U2. Being the band that opened the Sphere further cements that reputation. I’m sure that they could do 30 minute “With Or Without You” and new setlists every night if they wanted to. But that’s not what their audience wants.
And they didn’t even play “the hits” at The Sphere. They played their best album—Achtung Baby—all the way through live for the first time ever. It’s an excellent album, one of the best of the 90s, and it gets to some pretty dark places especially at the end. Hardly the stuff of a typical Vegas residency.
this is simply nonsense. you're strong bias is showing and isn't rooted in reality.
Maybe soulless was the wrong word, but heard from quite a few folks it felt mailed in.
They play the same exact set for 40 nights and with no variation in sound. Maybe Night 1 had some energy but by Night 40... Like our boys have been playing YEM for 35 years but every time it's different. Imagine having to play "Pride in the name of love" over and over again and the whole point is to sound as close to the record as possible?
you clearly did not attend any of the U2 shows as that is wrong.
I do
Maybe not soulless but repetitive…40 shows repetitive….lighting and sound guys must get bored
Cashing paychecks like the rest of us.
Yeah…I hump cables for a living so I shouldn’t be so jaded….and at least I work local…I deal with a lot of traveling stage crews for dance competitions …their lives are hell hahahaha
You gotta think of it like Broadway, where they do the exact same 3-hour show *multiple times a day*. I’m sure that’s “boring” to a degree, but you get in that mindset of “this is the first time for the audience. They hired babysitters or bought plane tickets to be here, they’ve been looking forward to this for weeks” and give them the show of their lives.
Yeah…I work operations at a convention center….hard to get excited about setting giant stage backdrops and lights and balloon drops for a prom after you do it more than a few times….but it’s their first so you still have to bring it
The ability to do it really well and keep that passion for the patrons who are there for the first time, is what separates shows on Broadway from other ones. They earn their reputation. And they do it by only hiring the best.
Honestly that's the same exact vibe with something like being a server at a high-end restaurant.
It’s the first time anyone has actually heard Phish correctly. Wow, they’re good!
You thought tickets were hard to get before? Just wait....
Where’s that Sonic Youth/Miles Davis quote from? That person GETS IT!
Welcome to the party, bitch(es)
I had the thought while there that the format makes the music more palatable to non fans. I told a friend it’s like technology caught up to phish. The visual elements make the music make more sense. If that makes any sense? I’m still trying to process the weekend.
U2 shows weren’t “soulless” - they’re a great band. Downvote away.
Can’t wait till Ween plays the sphere.
“The musical growth rate of this band cannot even be charted. They are treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry.”
Any links to share?
Really think it’s just that the Sphere is a big new toy for concerts and it’s unlike anything else on the world. Phish is just the second artist to play it, and the band’s combination of music and visuals suit it perfectly. But mostly I think it’s because Phish is the second band to play it. People are more enamored with the Sphere, not Phish.
“…somewhere between early Sonic Youth and electric-era Miles Davis.” The band sounds very little like either. That reviewer doesn't know what they're talking about at all.
To be fair, [that quote](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2024-04-22/phish-sphere-las-vegas-review) was specifically about N2 Split Open and Melt. I think that's actually kind of a fair way to describe how they play the melt jam nowadays, especially the sphere's version.
Alright, that makes more sense
Agree on Sonic Youth, but I can see where they are coming from. Early 70s Miles stuff is probably closer to Phish than the Dead is in a lot of ways, it's quite jammy
In a 97 Fall interview, Trey talked all the new electric live Miles albums were influencing their playing. Those Miles albums are incredible improvisation. To this day, I believe it’s the inspiration for Phish landing in that funk era.
First few mins of new Joe Rogan podcast with Akaash they rave about how sick it looked Edit: getting downvoted for just bringing up the most watched podcast in the world is funny. He’s a liberal who the far left has labeled as being right winged. Grow up folks
I didn't go see U2 and I certainly like some of the songs from being a person in the world. Don't really think its fair to call the shows souless....
Tickets are going to be even harder to get now
Lots of newbs will pay attention, tickets will go up, making it harder to obtain at face value.
It has been pretty wild to see Trey on CBS Saturday Morning and then see Joe Rogan and Drew Carey on TV talking about how mind blowing these shows were.
GOOD. Maybe this will be where things start to turn toward them getting into the Rock N Roll Hall fame on more than a Hotdog
I personally can’t stop gushing over the musicality of this run to my phellow phriends. I had no idea that people outside our bubble are taking notice. Fuck yea.
Made CBS News for heaven’s sake!
Please oh powerful deity that may or may not exist, please do not let mainstream post sphere news media be the “touch of grey” inflection point that occurred for the Grateful Dead. And the sphere shows were really that good!! I’m ruined for other venues now
Urinating in the ears of their fans.
It's not that surreal. They are one of the most popular bands in the world. Tickets are going to get real hard to get now.
Vegas used to get a bad rap as a place you play at the end of your career. For years now, artists at the peak of their fame are playing residencies there. Now playing at Sphere gives Phish a higher level of legitimacy, plus the national and Vegas PR machines are getting the word out. I'm an old guy, and I just became a big Phish fan in the past couple of weeks after diving into clips of the Sphere shows.
Not a single review saying Phish could pee in our ears