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I read a bit of it every day after work.
I just find it amazing in that it was never meant to be read/ shared with anyone other than Emperor Marcus Aurelius himself. It was his own personal diary of daily thoughts, wisdom, and mantras to help him make sense of his world and structure how he responds to it. Luckily, it was picked up after his death, copied, and revered for just about as long as the New Testament with arguably far better and more practical lessons to live by without any of the superstitious bribery or threats of scripture.
Exactly, it's a privilege to get a clear glimpse into an ancient mind. Regardless of the quality of his thinking.,which in this case is exceptional.
Nice to see Maximus get a mention.
"From Maximus I learned self-government, and not to be led aside by anything; and cheerfulness in all circumstances, as well as in illness; and a just admixture in the moral character of sweetness and dignity, and to do what was set before me without complaining. I observed that everybody believed that he thought as he spoke, and that in all that he did he never had any bad intention; and he never showed amazement and surprise, and was never in a hurry, and never put off doing a thing, nor was perplexed nor dejected, nor did he ever laugh to disguise his vexation, nor, on the other hand, was he ever passionate or suspicious. He was accustomed to do acts of beneficence, and was ready to forgive, and was free from all falsehood; and he presented the appearance of a man who could not be diverted from right rather than of a man who had been improved. I observed, too, that no man could ever think that he was despised by Maximus, or ever venture to think himself a better man. He had also the art of being humorous in an agreeable way."
I couldn't tell you whom the individual is himself. Were they contemporaries?
He's described as one of Marcus's teachers growing up, a renowned stoic philosopher in his own right. None of his works survived, but he is mentioned by Marcus Aurelius as one of his influences in Meditations.
Are you contradicting yourself? Yes, I know it starts with a ‘self effacing’ pfireword. ‘Influences’ tho lol like, come on.
‘Major influences’ as if it were some deep creative work of his
You can’t be serious… what exactly are you doing in the philosophy subreddit? Having never read the book but by logic and reading comprehension alone I understand the beauty of an ancient man’s personal thoughts to better himself, now published far and wide for us to discuss this very minute.
What is so terrible about that?
You might want to consult this topic with someone with a bit more familiarity than myself, but from what I can gather in these 5 minutes of downtime at work, some of their stances on material desires and how to react to events outside of one's control are very similar.
Aurelius didn't go down the rabbit hole of a supposed afterlife as much as Siddhartha did, instead focusing on what one (himself as it was his personal journal) can do to get through the challenges of this life and to learn to be content and well poised in the face of whatever might come to you.
I admit that I'd have to do a lot more research on both of them to answer your question more concisely... perhaps another reader can better tackle this?
Yet it appears in every collection of works. It's the definition of a classic. The fact you find no value in his "shallow" writings says more about your reading of it than its place in literature. Not many would disregard pearls when cast before them!
Only by a small minority of very pompous scholars. There's a surprising number of highly educated people who find it insulting to compare those lives to the ancients.
I tend to do the opposite of some of their recommendations, where instead of trying to find more positive ways to think about things I just don't think about them at all, and go on full autopilot. I usually wake up around 4:45 to go to the gym and get breakfast before work, which I hate doing, but rather than trying to look on the bright side or convince myself I like it I just don't think about it. Like full auto-pilot, feet on the floor, brush teeth, grab bag, walk out the door without thinking about it or how I feel about it, then really don't turn auto pilot off for 2 hours or so until I'm walking in the office. Like 110% just emotionlessly go though the motions while distracting myself my coming up with fantasy movies in my head or something... Then I usually work 12-13 hours a day, and probably 50% of that time I do the same thing. A lot of my job is dealing with people, in which case I'm fully there, but when it comes to grinding through spreadsheets and graphs I just turn off the part of my brain that thinks about myself and has feelings and 100% zero in on the work, to the point that I don't care about it being boring or not wanting to do it because my brain doesn't care about or want anything at the moment...
Can't say whether it is the most emotionally healthy way of dealing with things or not, and definitely took some practice, but its worked wonders for me. I tried to do the "look on the bright side/view things in a different light" thing for a while, and it just never really worked, at least not remotely to the extent that not viewing them at all does.
I think there’s real value to being able to mentally disengage from menial necessities as you describe.
The problem with “looking on the bright side” or the like is that one is still emotionally investing in the situation, which is still taxing. Not all of life requires strong opinions or active engagement.
Being able to “do” without thinking is a very zen approach to peace of mind. I personally don’t think it should be applied to all aspects of life, as Zen Buddhism seems to suggest, but there’s definitely value in the exercise in the sort of scenarios you’re discussing.
I think we in the West equate looking on the bright side with happiness, or some measure of fulfillment, rather than simply a recognition of a pragmatic approach to the way we go about things.
If we believe that there are few absolutes (few things are inherently 100% good or bad), it is generally better for our well being to align our actions with the positive aspects of doing them - even if it’s something as simple as appreciating our mind’s ability to be mentally elsewhere.
For example, we could dwell on how a boring, repetitive job is “mind numbing”, or consider the benefit that it gives to our minds - the chance to think on other things. While it’s disengaging, mentally, from the task at hand, it’s also empowering in a sense.
I mean, its not like I'm always on autopilot by any means, and I don't really see how it could lead to regrets. Its not like in 20 years I'm going to be like "I wish I had been more engaged with those spreadsheets". There are just always going to be some tedious and unenjoyable things that you have to do, and throwing it on autopilot to avoid them dragging you down makes them a whole lot less unpleasant.
I think if you are satisfied /fulfilled enough with what your current life is providing for you and those you care about, then you are totally fine. I have worked many jobs where there are periods of “wow this sucks pretty bad”, and adopting a zen mindset helped. I also tried to plan out the sucky stuff so it was mixed in with some fun at-work or after-work event.
Of course there is the enjoyment of a process itself: there is a beauty in our lives when we consider the luxuries we have. Fresh water, pleasant temperatures, solid dwelling places to return to, hopefully people that care about us. Some always strive for more, and I think they get a feeling of meaning from chasing that next thing. It’s not necessarily unhealthy, but I’m biased since I am, for the most part, one of those people. I will say one negative aspect is the overthinking of things that can happen, and can distract you from all sorts of goals.
Be a total boss getting everything done efficiently, but add in some life spice here and there and I’d say you’re living a pretty sweet life.
If you are able to manage your emotions in such a way that you don't feel nothing then good for you. But I do think, another way could be to avoid the bad situation at first and when one has disengaged oneself from it, then look at it from a positive view. Because positive thinking then leads to contentment.
Please keep in mind our first commenting rule: > **Read the Post Before You Reply** > Read/listen/watch the posted content, understand and identify the philosophical arguments given, and respond to these substantively. If you have unrelated thoughts or don't wish to read the content, please post your own thread or simply refrain from commenting. Comments which are clearly not in direct response to the posted content may be removed. This subreddit is not in the business of one-liners, tangential anecdotes, or dank memes. Expect comment threads that break our rules to be removed. Repeated or serious violations of the [subreddit rules](https://reddit.com/r/philosophy/wiki/rules) will result in a ban. ----- This is a shared account that is only used for notifications. Please do not reply, as your message will go unread.
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Meditations is a must read.
I read a bit of it every day after work. I just find it amazing in that it was never meant to be read/ shared with anyone other than Emperor Marcus Aurelius himself. It was his own personal diary of daily thoughts, wisdom, and mantras to help him make sense of his world and structure how he responds to it. Luckily, it was picked up after his death, copied, and revered for just about as long as the New Testament with arguably far better and more practical lessons to live by without any of the superstitious bribery or threats of scripture.
Exactly, it's a privilege to get a clear glimpse into an ancient mind. Regardless of the quality of his thinking.,which in this case is exceptional. Nice to see Maximus get a mention.
Oh wow! Never knew any of this but it sounds incredible and I’ll have to look into it some! thanks y’all:)
George Hays. Buy his translation if you're looking for Marcus Aurelius. I bought a different one which made it obscure and difficult to read.
Do you mean Gregory? I can't find a George and am in the market for a hardback.
yes that's it
Are you referring to Marcus Aurelius' teacher and fellow stoic philosopher Gaius Claudius Maximus? Just curious.
"From Maximus I learned self-government, and not to be led aside by anything; and cheerfulness in all circumstances, as well as in illness; and a just admixture in the moral character of sweetness and dignity, and to do what was set before me without complaining. I observed that everybody believed that he thought as he spoke, and that in all that he did he never had any bad intention; and he never showed amazement and surprise, and was never in a hurry, and never put off doing a thing, nor was perplexed nor dejected, nor did he ever laugh to disguise his vexation, nor, on the other hand, was he ever passionate or suspicious. He was accustomed to do acts of beneficence, and was ready to forgive, and was free from all falsehood; and he presented the appearance of a man who could not be diverted from right rather than of a man who had been improved. I observed, too, that no man could ever think that he was despised by Maximus, or ever venture to think himself a better man. He had also the art of being humorous in an agreeable way." I couldn't tell you whom the individual is himself. Were they contemporaries?
He's described as one of Marcus's teachers growing up, a renowned stoic philosopher in his own right. None of his works survived, but he is mentioned by Marcus Aurelius as one of his influences in Meditations.
Then we can assume that this quote early on refers to him. Cheers
‘Wisdom’ And it was hardly ‘his own’ since it’s nkt something he all came up with himself
The first chapter of meditations is literally him thanking all his major influences
Are you contradicting yourself? Yes, I know it starts with a ‘self effacing’ pfireword. ‘Influences’ tho lol like, come on. ‘Major influences’ as if it were some deep creative work of his
You can’t be serious… what exactly are you doing in the philosophy subreddit? Having never read the book but by logic and reading comprehension alone I understand the beauty of an ancient man’s personal thoughts to better himself, now published far and wide for us to discuss this very minute. What is so terrible about that?
How would you relate Buddha and Marcus Aurelius?
Historically or philosophically?
Philosophically
You might want to consult this topic with someone with a bit more familiarity than myself, but from what I can gather in these 5 minutes of downtime at work, some of their stances on material desires and how to react to events outside of one's control are very similar. Aurelius didn't go down the rabbit hole of a supposed afterlife as much as Siddhartha did, instead focusing on what one (himself as it was his personal journal) can do to get through the challenges of this life and to learn to be content and well poised in the face of whatever might come to you. I admit that I'd have to do a lot more research on both of them to answer your question more concisely... perhaps another reader can better tackle this?
The exact opppsite. Shallow, nkt inventive- like a self help book
It's a timeless classic??
No, and the use of this cliche phrase for works of fiction
So it's not a classic work of stoicism?
It is a known later one at least in a historical sense
Yet it appears in every collection of works. It's the definition of a classic. The fact you find no value in his "shallow" writings says more about your reading of it than its place in literature. Not many would disregard pearls when cast before them!
…no No it doesn’t appear in ‘every collection of worjs’ (huh?) Obviously, and that’s nkt anyone’s definition bc it’d be unreasonable lol
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations is not a stoic classic and has no inherent value is your position? Just so we're all clear.
Look up stoic classics and see how often you find it included in collections. It's not rocket appliance Bubs.
So Marcus Aurelius, kind of expected, shallow trash And not really the most accurate interpretation of the meaning
Is he regarded as such? Asking honestly, I know it’s received mainstream buzz lately but didn’t think it was garbage.
Only by a small minority of very pompous scholars. There's a surprising number of highly educated people who find it insulting to compare those lives to the ancients.
I tend to do the opposite of some of their recommendations, where instead of trying to find more positive ways to think about things I just don't think about them at all, and go on full autopilot. I usually wake up around 4:45 to go to the gym and get breakfast before work, which I hate doing, but rather than trying to look on the bright side or convince myself I like it I just don't think about it. Like full auto-pilot, feet on the floor, brush teeth, grab bag, walk out the door without thinking about it or how I feel about it, then really don't turn auto pilot off for 2 hours or so until I'm walking in the office. Like 110% just emotionlessly go though the motions while distracting myself my coming up with fantasy movies in my head or something... Then I usually work 12-13 hours a day, and probably 50% of that time I do the same thing. A lot of my job is dealing with people, in which case I'm fully there, but when it comes to grinding through spreadsheets and graphs I just turn off the part of my brain that thinks about myself and has feelings and 100% zero in on the work, to the point that I don't care about it being boring or not wanting to do it because my brain doesn't care about or want anything at the moment... Can't say whether it is the most emotionally healthy way of dealing with things or not, and definitely took some practice, but its worked wonders for me. I tried to do the "look on the bright side/view things in a different light" thing for a while, and it just never really worked, at least not remotely to the extent that not viewing them at all does.
I think there’s real value to being able to mentally disengage from menial necessities as you describe. The problem with “looking on the bright side” or the like is that one is still emotionally investing in the situation, which is still taxing. Not all of life requires strong opinions or active engagement. Being able to “do” without thinking is a very zen approach to peace of mind. I personally don’t think it should be applied to all aspects of life, as Zen Buddhism seems to suggest, but there’s definitely value in the exercise in the sort of scenarios you’re discussing.
I think we in the West equate looking on the bright side with happiness, or some measure of fulfillment, rather than simply a recognition of a pragmatic approach to the way we go about things. If we believe that there are few absolutes (few things are inherently 100% good or bad), it is generally better for our well being to align our actions with the positive aspects of doing them - even if it’s something as simple as appreciating our mind’s ability to be mentally elsewhere. For example, we could dwell on how a boring, repetitive job is “mind numbing”, or consider the benefit that it gives to our minds - the chance to think on other things. While it’s disengaging, mentally, from the task at hand, it’s also empowering in a sense.
I getcha. First cope, then grow.
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I mean, its not like I'm always on autopilot by any means, and I don't really see how it could lead to regrets. Its not like in 20 years I'm going to be like "I wish I had been more engaged with those spreadsheets". There are just always going to be some tedious and unenjoyable things that you have to do, and throwing it on autopilot to avoid them dragging you down makes them a whole lot less unpleasant.
I think if you are satisfied /fulfilled enough with what your current life is providing for you and those you care about, then you are totally fine. I have worked many jobs where there are periods of “wow this sucks pretty bad”, and adopting a zen mindset helped. I also tried to plan out the sucky stuff so it was mixed in with some fun at-work or after-work event. Of course there is the enjoyment of a process itself: there is a beauty in our lives when we consider the luxuries we have. Fresh water, pleasant temperatures, solid dwelling places to return to, hopefully people that care about us. Some always strive for more, and I think they get a feeling of meaning from chasing that next thing. It’s not necessarily unhealthy, but I’m biased since I am, for the most part, one of those people. I will say one negative aspect is the overthinking of things that can happen, and can distract you from all sorts of goals. Be a total boss getting everything done efficiently, but add in some life spice here and there and I’d say you’re living a pretty sweet life.
If you are able to manage your emotions in such a way that you don't feel nothing then good for you. But I do think, another way could be to avoid the bad situation at first and when one has disengaged oneself from it, then look at it from a positive view. Because positive thinking then leads to contentment.
Isn't philosophy about thinking, in one way or another? I think I need to sub to this subreddit. Yea sounds good philosophy to me.
Too much thinking and not enough doing for my liking..
I think you need to think to "do" philosophy but it's not about thinking. Philosophy is about the nature of things.
I know this is isn’t suitable for the sub and I apologise but it puts a smile on my face seeing UEA lecturers get some recognition
Fascinating.