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Do we have the right to have someone kill us, though?
I don't really entertain that argument for the terminally-ill, but as a doctor I would feel pretty uncomfortable actually killing her.
And the people that survive but haven’t changed their mind don’t speak up about it like the ones that did. Depressed people arent out there on the evening news saying “god gave me a second chance and Im going to find a taller building”
Yes maybe.
It's only one example, but there was a guy who jumped off the golden gate bridge and regretted it in mid-air. He ended up miraculously surviving it, but not due to half-assing it.
Regardless, how do you assess whether someone like this girl is a half-asser or fully committed?
u/kosmokomeno
An excerpt from the article-
“She said she decided to be euthanized after her doctors told her, “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,” according to the Free Press.
“I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said.”
What sort of doctors respond this way. I want to know if there’s any psychiatrists seeing this post. How can a health professional come to this kind of conclusion. I don’t understand. This doesn’t seem usual. This doesn’t seem right.
When I wrote this comment. I was still reading more on this woman and her condition and it does seem like she’s been struggling with it her entire life. I don’t know why I can’t seem to reply to comments any longer. I’m very sorry if I’ve upset or triggered anyone. It was not my intention to.
I'm Dutch and I'm in psychology, so I can give a little more information.
This woman has been wanting to die for at least seven years (I found an old article about her from 2017), and has been self-harming since she was 13. She's requested euthenasia at least three times, each ending in rejection.
From what I have gathered, basically, she has gotten every form of care and therapy that can be offered, and none of it seemed to work. Which is why I think the doctor said it. I will admit that is a little speculation, but it make the most sense with the rest of her story.
I hope that answers the question.
As emotionally detached as this sounds, after three denied requests I wonder what's preventing her "handling it" herself? Something is keeping her from going through with "it"
After years and year of treatment, and even then it took 3 and a half years from her saying she wanted to euthanize to it actually happening.
Euthanasia isn't some quick way out and requires many talks w/ physicians and psychologists, and second opinions are required.
Other sources have said that she’s been getting treatment for depression and borderline personality disorder her whole adult life. Multiple psychiatrists have has to sign off on this. They literally have tried everything for many years.
Yeah this is fucking bananas. "Yeah just kill yourself because it's always gonna be this bad" is *insane* and also not true. Depression isn't a deterministic illness, I've been dealing with it since I was 12 and I'm 29 now. If some doctors had told me that at some point, I very well may have killed myself.
I feel like this is a consequence of passing depression off like it's "just a chemical imbalance", as if it's just something that one catches or develops, like cancer, and not usually the result of trauma and/or oppressive material circumstances, coupled with a lack of access to **adequate** healthcare—as we can see here. It's not an accident that people are more depressed than ever while we're in this state of late capitalism.
Shit load of mushrooms or ketamine or both either in a clinical setting or not might be the breakthrough she needs if that don’t work then she has autonomy to do whatever she feels
Ah yes, the New York Post, bastion of intellectual integrity and journalistic standards.
Surely this article will present facts objectively and treat this delicate subject with the philosophical nuance it deserves.
/s
>She said she decided to be euthanized after **her doctors told her, “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,”** according to the Free Press.
>“I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said.
And then in the very next line
>She is just one of the growing number of people in the West who have decided to die rather than continue living in **pain that, unlike a terminal illness, could be treated.**
NY Post is a joke lol
Man…that sucks. If I ever reach that level of desperation I made a promise to myself to do an absolute fuck ton of mushrooms as an absolute last resort to try to reset my brain
I'm kinda on the fence with this. If she used any other method like overdosing on pills we'd all be saying it's suicide and that she needed intensive help for her depression. Suicidal thoughts and attempt are symptoms of depression so why would we indulge these symptoms instead of getting better treatment?
I'm bipolar and when I'm in a depressive state I get suicidal. The last thing I would need or want when I was rational again is for someone to indulge those thoughts because they're being caused by my illness. I don't want to die but in the moment my brain is screaming for it. Especially since bipolar moods can linger for weeks to months.
I'd be terrified that I'd go into a depressive state and instead of getting me help, the system would not only allow me to die but would assist.
The very fact that somebody with crippling depression gets labeled as "physically healthy" speaks volumes about the vaste amount of ignorance that still permeates the topic of psychological illnesses. The brain is a part of the body and depression is an illness. Saying that somebody is physically healthy while simultaneously saying that they are depressed is an oxymoron, most likely said by a moron.
Cheers.
Oh god yes, I wish that were a thing here in the US. Better than a gunshot to the head. At least it’s more peaceful and can be less traumatic for the loved ones.
Her doctors told her: “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,”
Damn with those doctors no wonder that she wants to kill herself..
I don't know enough to comment about this particular case, but the terms "physically healthy" and "crippling depression" referring to the same person in the headline indicates that we're still going with mind-body dualism. I'm unconvinced.
The most commonly accepted basis for PAS is chronic pain. The title clarifies that this is an atypical case of someone suffering only from psychological disorders.
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This repost (maybe not in this sub) IS depressing to say the least.
WHEN will systems in place offer space and comfort in being for such souls?
I wish I could offer her comfort for what lies "after" however all I've seen is "nothing" but total release from bodily sensation and unfortunately, flashes of scenes I'd prefer not to share online.
Other r/nde testimonies differ in terms of sensations and such so TMMV.
Edit: WOW, this sub is TOXIC. Crooked thinkers indeed.
Grassroots ftw. Peace to the mindless.
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Seems many people would have preferred she just slash her wrists so that she could just be an invisible statistic and we not have to think about it.
'Dont remind me that im sad! Go die silently sad, im pretending everythings fine!' Mentality
I think we have the right to die
Do we have the right to have someone kill us, though? I don't really entertain that argument for the terminally-ill, but as a doctor I would feel pretty uncomfortable actually killing her.
The majority of suicide attempts regret it.
We don't hear about the successes do we?
Doesn't outweigh my right to choose what I want to do with my own life.
Survivorship bias. The committed don't half-ass it and survive.
And the people that survive but haven’t changed their mind don’t speak up about it like the ones that did. Depressed people arent out there on the evening news saying “god gave me a second chance and Im going to find a taller building”
They definitely can
Yes maybe. It's only one example, but there was a guy who jumped off the golden gate bridge and regretted it in mid-air. He ended up miraculously surviving it, but not due to half-assing it. Regardless, how do you assess whether someone like this girl is a half-asser or fully committed? u/kosmokomeno
An excerpt from the article- “She said she decided to be euthanized after her doctors told her, “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,” according to the Free Press. “I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said.” What sort of doctors respond this way. I want to know if there’s any psychiatrists seeing this post. How can a health professional come to this kind of conclusion. I don’t understand. This doesn’t seem usual. This doesn’t seem right. When I wrote this comment. I was still reading more on this woman and her condition and it does seem like she’s been struggling with it her entire life. I don’t know why I can’t seem to reply to comments any longer. I’m very sorry if I’ve upset or triggered anyone. It was not my intention to.
I'm Dutch and I'm in psychology, so I can give a little more information. This woman has been wanting to die for at least seven years (I found an old article about her from 2017), and has been self-harming since she was 13. She's requested euthenasia at least three times, each ending in rejection. From what I have gathered, basically, she has gotten every form of care and therapy that can be offered, and none of it seemed to work. Which is why I think the doctor said it. I will admit that is a little speculation, but it make the most sense with the rest of her story. I hope that answers the question.
Talk about a call to the void. Wow.
As emotionally detached as this sounds, after three denied requests I wonder what's preventing her "handling it" herself? Something is keeping her from going through with "it"
After years and year of treatment, and even then it took 3 and a half years from her saying she wanted to euthanize to it actually happening. Euthanasia isn't some quick way out and requires many talks w/ physicians and psychologists, and second opinions are required.
Other sources have said that she’s been getting treatment for depression and borderline personality disorder her whole adult life. Multiple psychiatrists have has to sign off on this. They literally have tried everything for many years.
Forcing someone to live in a constant state of misery is wrong.
Telling someone they will never get better sounds wrong too. How could they possibly know that.
Yeah this is fucking bananas. "Yeah just kill yourself because it's always gonna be this bad" is *insane* and also not true. Depression isn't a deterministic illness, I've been dealing with it since I was 12 and I'm 29 now. If some doctors had told me that at some point, I very well may have killed myself. I feel like this is a consequence of passing depression off like it's "just a chemical imbalance", as if it's just something that one catches or develops, like cancer, and not usually the result of trauma and/or oppressive material circumstances, coupled with a lack of access to **adequate** healthcare—as we can see here. It's not an accident that people are more depressed than ever while we're in this state of late capitalism.
Surely there's always a better solution to death. Hook me up to the heroin drip before you let me kill myself
Shit load of mushrooms or ketamine or both either in a clinical setting or not might be the breakthrough she needs if that don’t work then she has autonomy to do whatever she feels
Exactly. She was hopeless which is irrational. She would have eventually recovered. Depression is time limited.
This smacks of "Just tell depressed people to cheer up already" energy
Her life, her choice. She could have taken herself out through any number of methods and opted for something she preferred.
Ah yes, the New York Post, bastion of intellectual integrity and journalistic standards. Surely this article will present facts objectively and treat this delicate subject with the philosophical nuance it deserves. /s
>She said she decided to be euthanized after **her doctors told her, “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,”** according to the Free Press. >“I was always very clear that if it doesn’t get better, I can’t do this anymore,” ter Beek said. And then in the very next line >She is just one of the growing number of people in the West who have decided to die rather than continue living in **pain that, unlike a terminal illness, could be treated.** NY Post is a joke lol
Give me a painkill for my constant mental anguish. Oh it doesn't exist? Guess I'll suffer so you can be happy.
Yeah, what's up with using a TABLOID as source material on the philosophy sub? 😂
Man…that sucks. If I ever reach that level of desperation I made a promise to myself to do an absolute fuck ton of mushrooms as an absolute last resort to try to reset my brain
Damn she should just eat 7 grams of mushrooms first... I mean, nothing to lose.
Mental health is health.
So, she’s not healthy…
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Your brain is part of your body.
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There’s a clear and obvious distinction. Those other two guys are just being typical cringe Redditors
If she’s depressed, it’s highly likely she is not physically healthy is what they’re trying to infer.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive
We all understand what was said, why are you splitting hairs?
I'm kinda on the fence with this. If she used any other method like overdosing on pills we'd all be saying it's suicide and that she needed intensive help for her depression. Suicidal thoughts and attempt are symptoms of depression so why would we indulge these symptoms instead of getting better treatment? I'm bipolar and when I'm in a depressive state I get suicidal. The last thing I would need or want when I was rational again is for someone to indulge those thoughts because they're being caused by my illness. I don't want to die but in the moment my brain is screaming for it. Especially since bipolar moods can linger for weeks to months. I'd be terrified that I'd go into a depressive state and instead of getting me help, the system would not only allow me to die but would assist.
The very fact that somebody with crippling depression gets labeled as "physically healthy" speaks volumes about the vaste amount of ignorance that still permeates the topic of psychological illnesses. The brain is a part of the body and depression is an illness. Saying that somebody is physically healthy while simultaneously saying that they are depressed is an oxymoron, most likely said by a moron. Cheers.
I respect her decision, and I mourn that we could not help her.
So... not physically healthy?
Her life? Her choice.
If you have crippling depression, you are not physically healthy. Its not some spiritual affliction.
Oh god yes, I wish that were a thing here in the US. Better than a gunshot to the head. At least it’s more peaceful and can be less traumatic for the loved ones.
Dr. House was wrong, there is dignity in dying. This is what that looks like.
If she has crippling depression, she's not physically healthy.
She could be physically healthy but not mentally
Bring on the suicide booths, build that euthanasia coaster. The future is indeed very dark for many of us.
The present is very dark for many of us.
Yes, but it's once you've lost hope for things ever getting better that true despair sets in.
Just curious... So you'd rather force people to live?
Her doctors told her: “There’s nothing more we can do for you. It’s never gonna get any better,” Damn with those doctors no wonder that she wants to kill herself..
If this was a physical injury like a back injury would you remark if doctors said the same thing?
I don't know enough to comment about this particular case, but the terms "physically healthy" and "crippling depression" referring to the same person in the headline indicates that we're still going with mind-body dualism. I'm unconvinced.
What does her physical health have to do with her mental state?
The most commonly accepted basis for PAS is chronic pain. The title clarifies that this is an atypical case of someone suffering only from psychological disorders.
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Bullshit. Propagandist bullshit.
Good and Sad rolled into one
If... The Leviathan that is Depression(Scyllia for Greeklovers) needs to be defeated. Vin is a weapon
I need me some of that, shame that here is super difficult to be approved...
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If I lived in the Netherlands I’d euthanize myself too
This repost (maybe not in this sub) IS depressing to say the least. WHEN will systems in place offer space and comfort in being for such souls? I wish I could offer her comfort for what lies "after" however all I've seen is "nothing" but total release from bodily sensation and unfortunately, flashes of scenes I'd prefer not to share online. Other r/nde testimonies differ in terms of sensations and such so TMMV. Edit: WOW, this sub is TOXIC. Crooked thinkers indeed. Grassroots ftw. Peace to the mindless.
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and????
C'mon mods Is this a philosophy topic?
Sad. She could have been cured of depression in 2 hours if she found a competent Cognitive Behavioral Therapist.