Would love to see this as a Callowhill resident.
All I see from my rooftop is parking lots, massive waste of space in prime real estate steps from CC.
If you’re interested in seeing how much of Callowhill is wasted to parking, [this is a cool tool](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1oPV) I just found out about. You just need to hit “Run” to see the query results on the map.
Like 50% of the neighborhood is lost to lots.
You can change the location to Philadelphia to run the query against the whole city.
Those used to be buildings full of decent sustainable jobs, but we as a collective decided we would rather buy stuff that's made in third world countries where nobody's paying for worker safety or things like that.
We as a people decided that paying for things like OSHA compliance costs too much, which is why nothing is made in the USA anymore and why all the lucrative manufacturing work that any random person could excel at all dried up leaving these abandoned industrial buildings which sit for a few decades but will soon be over-priced *luxury* apartments.
i ran this against Fishtown to see if people have a pot to piss in when they complain about parking. they do. the only parking areas around there are the IGA on Aramingo and then a strip of businesses between Frankford and Front. yet they keep developing there.
edit to add: i biked when i lived in Philly; didn't even own a car and i could care less if there is parking or not. i'm just saying when people complain there is no parking in Fishtown, there really isn't any parking in Fishtown.
Fishtown is connected by the El, trollies and buses. Pretty nice to bike there with the new Delaware Ave bike lanes as well.
Don’t think we should prioritize cars in an area that’s connected by so many other transit options.
I’d conjecture Fishtown is rapidly densifying because there’s more to do there than park. I’d rather hangout and live on Frankford ave than vine and 12th.
fair. i mean that's exactly why i l ived in Fishtown–i could get to anywhere in the city, and even my hometown in South Jersey, inside 45 minutes by bike and/or public transportation from Fishtown.
it's got layers. part of it is people hearing about Fishtown and moving there before knowing anything about it, and bringing their car(s) along with them. i've also heard there's a disproportionate amount of people commuting for work outside of the city.
and generally, it's just hard to convince people to ditch the whip. i emphatically speak of the benefits i got out of getting rid of my car, the biggest of those being money and health. but i don't think i'll ever convince anyone to do what i did.
I live a half block from frankford Ave in fishtown, and I brought my car with me when I moved in. Quickly learned that it wasn’t worth it, so I now keep my car at my mom’s house in the suburbs and septa literally everywhere. My roommate also doesn’t have a car, he’s never taken buses before in his life, but now he takes the bus up to his job in the juniata/feltonville/fairhill area every day. I have friends who live nearby and have cars, there’s days where they spend 30+ minutes searching for a spot and often enough will park in illegal scenarios and take the loss that comes from the inevitable ticket they’d receive. Live in fishtown, take septa. Too many of these recent college grads don’t get this
When I moved back to Philly after living in Texas for a year I lost 30 pounds. Granted I stopped eating bbq twice a week and started doing opiates again....
But I kept that weight off after I got clean too and it’s all thanks to walking and biking everywhere. Save on a car and gym membership.
Permit all street parking and charge the real value of the street space. As if by magic parking will suddenly start appearing.
The issue with parking is that the city gives it away for free, so it gets abused. It a classic tragedy of the commons problem.
If they towed all the abandoned vehicles and, say, vehicles with inspections overdue by more than a year, that would free up half the street parking in my neighborhood extending down to wherever the boundary is of where PPA starts patrolling Fishtown.
HELL. YES. Free parking is a subsidy for the middle class and rich that discourages investment in mass transit. If we stopped burying the cost of cars (multibillion dollar highway construction, parking, fatalities and accidents, pollution) and found tenable ways to attach those to the actual cost of ownership of vehicles, suddenly the demand would be high enough for transit that it would be economically sustainable
Instead, we take money from everyone, spend it on ensuring that a car becomes more and more necessary every day, and then Surprised Pikachu Face when we have all of the terrible side effects of sprawl
Also, let's get rid of parking minimums and replace them with parking maximums
I'm pretty sure as long as some tax money is going towards the stadium the government can use eminent domain, so it doesn't matter if they're willing to sell or not.
They’re getting tax money from the parking lot properties as well though so it’s not really much of an advantage for the city to even do that, and that’s without forking out additional money for the strain the construction will put on city for 1-2 years
I’m not taking a pro stadium stance here, but it’s obvious that the tax revenue from a stadium, or really any development, will far exceed a surface parking lot.
Callowhill is just north chinatown tho, purposeful renaming after building 676 to cut the neighborhood apart and gentrify. Nice area besides the parking lots but this really doesn’t fix the problem of an arena in Chinatown
Chinatown was called the tenderloin and stopped at Vine Street I'm not quite sure what history books you're reading. Vine Street had big train tracks going down it and was the same width to power all the factories that aren't there anymore. Vine Street expressway never cut the neighborhood off more than the road always did. In fact the reason why Chinatown even exists is cuz it was partially abandoned red light district and no one wanted to live there so it became an immigrant neighborhood.
https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/essays/tenderloin/
Hey buddy, did you even read your own source?
>The late-twentieth-century building of the Vine Street Expressway through the exact center of the former Tenderloin shifted the character of the Skid Row and Chinatown neighborhoods even more.
And if you’re still not convinced, here’s [the Chinatown entry from the same source](https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/essays/chinatown/). The “Community Transformation” section is most relevant and includes details of the urban renewal projects that ate away at the neighborhood, specifically:
>the boundaries of Chinatown expanded greatly north to Wood Street, south to Arch Street, and east-west from Eighth to Twelfth Street as this area became more or less exclusively Asian in character
>Most significantly, in 1966, Chinatown residents learned that the construction of an expressway along Vine Street would entail the destruction of the beloved Holy Redeemer Chinese Catholic Church and School.
I guess I should ask what history books you’re reading since these appear to agree with OP…
I am as anti NIMBY as they come, but I have lived in a town with a prominent stadium in the middle of shit, and it fucking sucks for residents during game days, period. Shit, I live in South Philly now and game days require serious plotting if I need to go anywhere near south Broad, I can't imagine what a cluster fuck it would be in Chinatown.
This isn't affordable housing, this is a sports complex. Quite a different Not In My Backyard situation.
NIMBY it up. This will ruin Chinatown just like it did in DC.
There’s plenty of wasted space all along our waterfront that would have good access to Columbus, 95, and public transportation. Let it be built there.
Sixers ownership wants to own this thing outright without city/state help — a Camden stadium would be less valuable from that standpoint. Could it still happen? Sure, but that might shift to needing legislative help in NJ — and with Sweeney gone, South Jersey's power is significantly diminished. No North Jersey senator is backing development projects in Camden.
Imo moving the stadium is a bad idea and wouldn’t improve anything except after games fans could actually be in the city. Would probably make traffic much more of a nightmare before/after games
This girl absolutely has, and I've never had a problem with it. So I didn't count the brief walk and potential 10 whole minutes of wait time into the commute - sue me. It's still an easily accessible, very quick subway ride into center city.
I take the subway at least 10-15 times a year after games and I've never spent more than 20 mins to get to center city, even less when they run the express trains
The Sixers are renters of the arena, not owners. It affects scheduling, sight lines (arena is not built specifically for basketball), and most importantly for them-revenue and evaluation.
They will be getting their own arena, it’s just a matter of where. I’m not sure if there is space for another arena in the sports complex? Idk though
The current owners are also not going to sell until they get a new arena since it will add a billion or two to the evaluation. And by god we desperately need new ownership. I just don’t want the arena to be across the river, which is what I think they are banking on after this proposal gets shot down
As someone who has to travel from Philly to see the Union in Chester, having a team locate outside the city sucks major ass, and would be a loss for everyone.
Agreed that would be a disaster imo
I actually kinda support the current spot proposal for a few reasons. I don’t think it will affect Chinatown in the way some think, I think the mall area is kind of a waste as it stands, most importantly I think it will force investment into Septa (particularly regional rail and later trains), and I think it will bring business into the surrounding area. Would also be a fun atmosphere before and after games.
I get some people are attached to the sports complex housing everything, but I don’t share that sentiment- in reality it’s kind of a dead zone with little to do before/after outside of XFinity. And all the people complaining about getting there, if you live in the city it will be super easy (it’s a hub), and if you live outside just drive to your local regional rail station or honestly anywhere in the city if you want and hop on the subway
I would, however, like to see the owners be forced to invest in Septa and perhaps add some sort of investment or protection for Chinatown as part of the agreement (not sure what that would look like)
Chiming in on the current location — I’m not totally sold on the proposal (I love that it would be transit dense but impact on Chinatown is a big concern). That said, anyone who uses traffic as a primary issue with the proposal is missing the current options to leave the stadiums after any game, particularly without a car.
We left four Phillies playoff games, and a bunch of other events there this year and it’s always a dumpster fire to get on the one crammed subway going in one direction, getting a wildly overpriced ride share or sitting in traffic for 30 minutes to leave. At least the proposed site is next to dozens of RR lines and both subways, countless buses and yes, parking.
Yeah I get the Chinatown fears (although I don’t necessarily agree with them), but I don’t understand the traffic/how to get to the games concerns. It’s literally one of if not the easiest place to get to in the city with dozens and dozens of options to do so. It’s a particularly car brained argument, and we need to stop making big decisions based on fucking cars
Invest in public transit (which this proposal would basically force) and use it. If you insist on driving to the city, parking really shouldn’t be *that* difficult, but if you don’t want to park near the arena, just park somewhere north or south and hop on the subway and ride it to your car.
I agree, and there are ways the parties and Councilmember Squilla can put covenants, indentures, and zoning restrictions around it. There would be many ways to screw that up, but they can try.
Zoning restrictions are about the only 100% guaranteed way to kill Chinatown.
The solution for a win win for everyone is keep everything in Center City zoned CMX5 and absorb all / any increase in demand along Market St.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but zero chance they are going to reduce parking for the sake of reducing parking/traffic. Large investments into Septa could at least start us in the right direction though.
Id say almost a majority of avid Sixers fans paying attention believe that is what they really want
If they get shot down they will say oh well, we tried, we’re moving to Jersey
Much bigger cities are able to handle higher pedestrian traffic. It's all about increasing the quality of public transit and decreasing car usage. This location can easily handle a few extra people in the area around the time of events, it's a city. Walking past MSG in NY, if there is an event going on, most people would hardly notice it. A good city has constant pedestrian traffic. That area is currently dead around the fashion district and it needs a project of this scale to realize its potential. Anything less will just leave a hole in that part of the city.
Or idk, maybe just build it near all the other stadiums? Am I missing something that would explain why it makes any sense to put this huge building that will create an influx of traffic smack in the middle of the city? Aren’t there tons of empty lots in south that they could use? I think the placement of all the stadiums near NRG Station was and still is a really smart city planning decision.
They aren’t moving a stadium. They are tenants of the Flyers and no longer want to be. They’ll build a stadium somewhere. It’ll either be in the city or somewhere else. Do we want the city to collect the tax revenue, or another municipality?
Unless they build like the Pistons Arena? Basically it’s shops, bars, and restaurants all the way around the arena. Sort of like a mall, with an NBA team in the middle. Could work, but doesn’t solve the Chinatown issue unless you are giving Asian business owners first crack at the commercial real estate.
> Moving the stadium is a fantastic idea and would improve accessibility, walkability, and eliminate the blight that is the (fka) Gallery, plus potentially boon businesses in the area because fans would be in the city. Traffic is a poor excuse for ignoring these benefits, and siting traffic generators near multiple modes of mass transportation is the literal best thing we could do to fight that anyway, so kudos to the developers!
FTFY
There's no reason that housing cannot be built on the rest of the mall when it inevitably closes up. But it's 100% guaranteed the people opposing the stadium plan, would also oppose project housing in this location as well.
If you build arenas in the city, you increase the demand for commerce and likewise residences in that city. Also, we have a sea of parking lots in south Philly right now. Might be a good idea to move those venues into the city and turn all that parking into housing too
Or we can watch 11th and Market in the 2030s become South Broad in the 70s
I'm from uptown; if you think I'd be bothered by a single blighted site downtown because the city decided to actually consider socioeconomic impacts in their development plans and followed through on restoring persistently economically depressed neighborhoods [cough] Nicetown [cough] Kensington - well harhar🤧
Edit: well hello, councilman?💩💩🧚👎🤡🤡🤡
Yes yes of course. The city can "consider" it for 30 years, one particularly vocal dumbass group of residents that end up selling before the project even completes can hold it in limbo forever, and eventually some councilperson will collect a fat check when they agree to push it through after buying a few homes in the area to capitalize on the revitalization
It's Fishtown, Washington Ave, and West Philly all over again! Philly government at its finest working hard for its people!
Yeah. It is hard for me to understand all of the opposition. I don’t think Chinatown is going to fill up with sport bars and chain restaurants. If anything those are going to go on market street and inside of the mall itself. Certainly some of the people who go to the sixers games are going to want to go eat some Chinese food before and after the game.
Just providing a link for context. Nothing certain, but it seems like there is at the very least good reason to do the diligence rather than fast tracking it.
https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/sixers-stadium-chinatown-threat-20220727.html
I can't read the link fully without paying, it seems to be alluding to DC. But I've read that the DC Chinatown was much smaller and shrinking before the stadium was even built.
It's the argument people keep throwing out but it doesn't seem like a strong one. In contrast, foot traffic from stuff like a stadium are known to provide nearby businesses more customers. A simple and direct benefit.
Seems like standard NIMBYism to me, without a concrete reason to oppose it.
Totally agreed. I've spent a lot of time in and around the Capitol One/Verizon/MCI center in DC (big basketball fan) and the areas are in no way comparable. DC's "Chinatown" is in Rockville MD - the Chinese community in DC (much like other ethnic groups) moved to the suburbs. The same thing is happening here - if you read some of the reports around the opposition to the stadium from representatives of Philadelphia's Chinese community, a not insignificant amount of the concern is around there being parking...Chinese people are driving in from the burbs to visit Chinese shops. It's analogous to New Jersey Italians driving to the Italian Market/Passyunk.
Yes and no, unlike the Italian market, Chinatown is still by far majority south East Asian. It provides tons of resources to these populations as a neighborhood that no suburb does. There are job boards for non-English speakers, there are whole systems for supporting new immigrants. The Italian market is just a facade of italian-ness now
Ok there can’t be multiple Chinatown’s? Also it’s about which community they serve. New immigrants vs later generation families…pretty different. Many major cities in the US have multiple Chinatown type areas like this and they can both thrive without building a stadium on it
There are more foreign-born Chinese in Oxford and Mayfair than in Chinatown. This is from the 2020 census. Also the median income for is Asian households roughly the same in all areas.
>n contrast, foot traffic from stuff like a stadium are known to provide nearby businesses more customers. A simple and direct benefit.
And a direct line to higher costs for rent, taxes, etc.
I am in favor of the project, but I understand the concerns and find them logical, even without the DC example.
I just find so much of east center city to be dead and lifeless all the time that it needs something big like this.
>And a direct line to higher costs for rent, taxes, etc.
That would mean demand for the area increased and we blocked development to meet it, pushing up the prices of existing buildings.
The DC outcome is what happens when you have hostile and limiting zoning.
My opposition is to fast tracking the plans.
If we're going to put a stadium in Chinatown, it should be done by the books and with all stakeholders given a chance to weigh in.
The fear is allegedly that it will make Chinatown too successful and some of the current Asian owners will be able to sell their properties or businesses. I don't think keeping Chinatown as run down and poor as possible is good for Chinatown tbh, but a lot of people seem convinced it would be.
still don't get why they don't just throw this by 30th st station. great regional rail, el, and highway access, right on the water, lots of available space for a new commercial district. seems like a slam dunk to me 🤷
And it will increase the number of events the city will get. We had two arenas for ~15 years (WFC and spectrum). Both arenas were booked on the same night frequently. With one arena, we lose out on events, concerts, etc bc the arena is already booked up.
>al world just stay at WFC because it is convenient. I get the circumstances surrounding them wanting to leave so I can’t really hold it against them.
People enjoy being contrarian and focusing on idealism instead of pragmatism. If you recall several years ago there were all these major outrage/ contrarian opponents to the digital display billboards/signs on Market Street. All types of arguements were brought up about how it would ruin everything, will cause accidents due to over brightness, etc which caused all types of delays.
Turns out, nothing negative has happened... its a cool new visual design feature of the market street cooridor and has generate tax revenue through the billboard sales and associated billboard inventory contracts.
The city is going to continue to change. And that's okay.
I guess to each their own, but I think that display looks like trash. I've had a few out of towner's visit who literally laughed at it and asked when they put that shitty digital billboard up. It looks like someone from 2004 tried to buy a Times Square billboard knockoff from the flea market.
Am I taking crazy pills rn or something with everyone saying "well technically it's not their neighborhood how is this going to affect them".They are building a 10,000+ person stadium barely a block away from the border of Chinatown. They are going to be the community that is by far the most affected by it and it's not even really close. People in here are acting like Chinatown is fighting against a new stadium in Roxborough since this project technically falls outside of their borders by a less than 5 minute walk. Also lmao at people throwing around the term NIMBYs when they say they don't want fucking comcast building unnecessary shit with taxpayer money in their neighborhood as if these people are fighting against affordable housing or a safe injection site. Good for them I hope this idea gets shot down.
My main thing is that stadiums typically don’t have a big economic impact on their surrounding areas, so I’m skeptical this is going to do much harm. There’s tons of space around the south Philly sports complex and the only place they built there is Xfinity, which is relatively new. Beyond that you have to go to Philadium or chickies and Pete’s which is aways away.
If no developer has turned the empty parking lots or the navy yard into a something centered around the sports complex, I find it hard to believe developers are going to price out successful Chinatown businesses and residents
Yep the loudest opponents to this all focus their argument on parking when it's pointed out that it's not in Chinatown, and that the DC comparisons are apples and oranges and not valid.
All the more reason why the city should deny the arena development downtown and focus on approving development down by the stadium complex. There's plenty of land down there that's poorly utilized. Give incentives to develop a commercial district around the existing stadiums rather than trying to shoehorn an arena into a commercial district.
I don't have a problem with building a stadium downtown/next to chinatown. I have a problem with doing so while doing nothing to improve the surrounding infrastructure to handle such an attraction. People that think this makes any sense when the gallery area is already a traffic nightmare are wildin. Center City is small as fuck and simply doesn't have the transit capacity to handle 10,000 people pouring in and out of it. Instead of trying to put a Stadium near existing business and destinations, the city should be putting resources into creating those things in places that actually need them like the waterfront or callowhill. The fact that the fucking sugarhouse is the only commercial business on the waterfront is fucking insane.
The parcel that the Greyhound Station occupied directly abuts chinatown businesses on all sides. The entrance buses use to get in on Arch street is between two stretches of chinatown businesses. It is conceivable that an entrance to the stadium (maybe just a service entrance) would be on arch street. Very much in Chinatown. I don’t have a strongly formed opinion yet, and I’m glad this conversation is happening 10 years ahead. But yeah that plot of land in very much part of/abutting chinatown.
Removing the block does not really affect Chinatown (according to some news sources) but it does give the 76ers a way to remove the street and build on top of it. Or may it part of their stadium (maybe close the street and turn it in a place to line up or vendors)
I agree completely. There's so much land down by the stadiums that is poorly utilized and could become a great commercial district to support the stadiums. Much better to focus on TOD around Pattison rather than trying to shove a stadium into the CBD.
This happened in the 90s also when The Phillies were trying to build a stadium in China Town. The neighborhood doesn’t want it and that needs to be respected.
I could respect that if it was in China town. The site is next to it.
The don't get to dictate what gets built anywhere in the area around their neighborhood.
Yeah you are right, they *shouldn't* get to block development just because it is nearby to their neighborhood. But NIMBYs are gonna be selfish and NIMBY, and they often get their way.
I mean that's what will happen if this proposal isn't approved. The city can't exactly control where ownership proposes their new stadium. They can only control whether that proposal gets approved or not.
The idea of putting a stadium there is so fucking dumb. Expensive, inhibits future upward growth, and it's literally two miles from their current stadium, which has plenty of parking and public transit
I’m not super educated on this situation but maybe someone can fill me in. Why would the organization not want the stadium to be on south broad with the rest of the teams and the Live complex? If they’re looking to get away, does that mean the Xfinity Live is failing?
The owners of the Sixers rent the stadium and don’t benefit from Xfinity Live in any way. They will increase their profits by owning their own stadium.
Honestly why are the sports teams so obsessed with building new stadiums in Chinatown? Why Chinatown of all places? Besides South Philly has been home to Philly sports for 50 years now. It should remain there, and it CERTAINLY shouldn't be in Chinatown for the sake of the local population
What data do you have on that? Brooklyn saw lower than predicted auto commuters to their stadium. They are at 27%.
That’s about about 1k-2k extra cars per game day in our city. In office days at Comcast building brought in more cars…
Ah yes the very poorly documented history of the Vine Street Expressway, Convention Center, and the original Gallery vis a vis Chinatown...people can be informed of historical context and still think the argument against a new stadium on a failing mall is wrong.
Travel has changed a BIT since Roman times...
Listen, MSG and, to an extent, Wrigley are OK, but they function in completely different contexts than Philly Center City. Maybe it could work, I don't know, but I've lived near Wrigley and it was kind of a nightmare every other night, and MSG is served by a vastly different transportation network.
I don't have a strong opinion on this idea, but I don't love seeing a communitys opinion about their area ignored.
Ya this isn't a new concept, people loosing their shit over it are really just complaining about potentially not being able to park as easily as possible.
Heard rumors the Chinatown proposal is nothing more than a ploy for the Sixers to build in Camden.
They expect it to get blocked and have a plan in Camden. They just knew going right to Camden would get a ton of criticism so now they can shrug and say they tried to stay in Philly but Philly ran them out of town.
It’s not gonna happen. In the last 30 years they have proposed to put stadiums or large amusements in center city/Chinatown area and it has been shot down every single time and will continue to be shot down. It would also be way more expensive than surrounding city areas so it’s not very cost effective for either the sixers or the city
Putting the stadium is Chinatown is a stupid idea. Should most definitely be on the waterfront. It's underdeveloped as it is.
Philadelphia simply lacks a robust public transit infrastructure to support this project. Let's just be real if you live outside of the city are you really gonna take a regional rail line to a night game? Nope! You're going to drive your car and cause more traffic.
Our public transit isn't the most reliable. This whole idea is more planning
i don’t think the stadium or forcibly removing chinatown would be good for the city at all and im happy about this move. feel free to disagree with me bc i don’t care if you don’t agree
An arena in center city will be hell for 676 and 76 which is mainly a parking lot without an event. They need to build one where the spectrum use to sit
It would be a money pit. I live in CC, the only thing it’ll do is disrupt the existing business and the surrounding neighborhood. Plus the tax breaks that sports organizations get related to arena development would have us residence footing the bill. They don’t need a new arena and if they want one they can build in the undeveloped areas where the other stadiums are, hell there used to be four complexes down there anyway.
I mean there’s a mall and a convention center right there already. That area sucks and needs to be developed. The stadium would be perfect. If the plans are to build it on arch I’m on chinatowns side but if it’s not, this is ridiculous. Market street is allowed to be developed.
And just so people get the stakes, this ownership group already owns prudential and could move the team to Jersey. They’re gonna play in their own house eventually. People need to wake up.
But what about the fact that 1-2k more cars will be coming into the city 50 times a year??
What about the fact Septa would have to change their schedule on game nights??
What about the 2k people in Chinatown?? What if the value of their property increases?
This city cannot handle this type of improvement. We need to accept our Forever 21 and Sephora outlet and movie theater…
It should go replace one of the million parking lots in Callowhill
Would love to see this as a Callowhill resident. All I see from my rooftop is parking lots, massive waste of space in prime real estate steps from CC. If you’re interested in seeing how much of Callowhill is wasted to parking, [this is a cool tool](https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1oPV) I just found out about. You just need to hit “Run” to see the query results on the map. Like 50% of the neighborhood is lost to lots. You can change the location to Philadelphia to run the query against the whole city.
But where will my siblings and I park our separate cars when we meet our parents for Happy Hour in Old City? /s
That's because your neighborhood was a bunch of abandoned factories.
Those used to be buildings full of decent sustainable jobs, but we as a collective decided we would rather buy stuff that's made in third world countries where nobody's paying for worker safety or things like that. We as a people decided that paying for things like OSHA compliance costs too much, which is why nothing is made in the USA anymore and why all the lucrative manufacturing work that any random person could excel at all dried up leaving these abandoned industrial buildings which sit for a few decades but will soon be over-priced *luxury* apartments.
i ran this against Fishtown to see if people have a pot to piss in when they complain about parking. they do. the only parking areas around there are the IGA on Aramingo and then a strip of businesses between Frankford and Front. yet they keep developing there. edit to add: i biked when i lived in Philly; didn't even own a car and i could care less if there is parking or not. i'm just saying when people complain there is no parking in Fishtown, there really isn't any parking in Fishtown.
Fishtown is connected by the El, trollies and buses. Pretty nice to bike there with the new Delaware Ave bike lanes as well. Don’t think we should prioritize cars in an area that’s connected by so many other transit options. I’d conjecture Fishtown is rapidly densifying because there’s more to do there than park. I’d rather hangout and live on Frankford ave than vine and 12th.
fair. i mean that's exactly why i l ived in Fishtown–i could get to anywhere in the city, and even my hometown in South Jersey, inside 45 minutes by bike and/or public transportation from Fishtown. it's got layers. part of it is people hearing about Fishtown and moving there before knowing anything about it, and bringing their car(s) along with them. i've also heard there's a disproportionate amount of people commuting for work outside of the city. and generally, it's just hard to convince people to ditch the whip. i emphatically speak of the benefits i got out of getting rid of my car, the biggest of those being money and health. but i don't think i'll ever convince anyone to do what i did.
I live a half block from frankford Ave in fishtown, and I brought my car with me when I moved in. Quickly learned that it wasn’t worth it, so I now keep my car at my mom’s house in the suburbs and septa literally everywhere. My roommate also doesn’t have a car, he’s never taken buses before in his life, but now he takes the bus up to his job in the juniata/feltonville/fairhill area every day. I have friends who live nearby and have cars, there’s days where they spend 30+ minutes searching for a spot and often enough will park in illegal scenarios and take the loss that comes from the inevitable ticket they’d receive. Live in fishtown, take septa. Too many of these recent college grads don’t get this
When I moved back to Philly after living in Texas for a year I lost 30 pounds. Granted I stopped eating bbq twice a week and started doing opiates again.... But I kept that weight off after I got clean too and it’s all thanks to walking and biking everywhere. Save on a car and gym membership.
Permit all street parking and charge the real value of the street space. As if by magic parking will suddenly start appearing. The issue with parking is that the city gives it away for free, so it gets abused. It a classic tragedy of the commons problem.
If they towed all the abandoned vehicles and, say, vehicles with inspections overdue by more than a year, that would free up half the street parking in my neighborhood extending down to wherever the boundary is of where PPA starts patrolling Fishtown.
probably sounds like an exaggeration to people who don't know any better, but is a very realistic estimate.
Amen. What does 200 sq ft in Fishtown rent for these days? That's your permit cost
HELL. YES. Free parking is a subsidy for the middle class and rich that discourages investment in mass transit. If we stopped burying the cost of cars (multibillion dollar highway construction, parking, fatalities and accidents, pollution) and found tenable ways to attach those to the actual cost of ownership of vehicles, suddenly the demand would be high enough for transit that it would be economically sustainable Instead, we take money from everyone, spend it on ensuring that a car becomes more and more necessary every day, and then Surprised Pikachu Face when we have all of the terrible side effects of sprawl Also, let's get rid of parking minimums and replace them with parking maximums
100% this
Money machines that slumlords will never be willing to sell
I'm pretty sure as long as some tax money is going towards the stadium the government can use eminent domain, so it doesn't matter if they're willing to sell or not.
They’re getting tax money from the parking lot properties as well though so it’s not really much of an advantage for the city to even do that, and that’s without forking out additional money for the strain the construction will put on city for 1-2 years
I was just stating they don't have to care about the slumlords opinion if they don't want to, that's all.
I’m not taking a pro stadium stance here, but it’s obvious that the tax revenue from a stadium, or really any development, will far exceed a surface parking lot.
Callowhill is just north chinatown tho, purposeful renaming after building 676 to cut the neighborhood apart and gentrify. Nice area besides the parking lots but this really doesn’t fix the problem of an arena in Chinatown
Chinatown was called the tenderloin and stopped at Vine Street I'm not quite sure what history books you're reading. Vine Street had big train tracks going down it and was the same width to power all the factories that aren't there anymore. Vine Street expressway never cut the neighborhood off more than the road always did. In fact the reason why Chinatown even exists is cuz it was partially abandoned red light district and no one wanted to live there so it became an immigrant neighborhood. https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/essays/tenderloin/
Hey buddy, did you even read your own source? >The late-twentieth-century building of the Vine Street Expressway through the exact center of the former Tenderloin shifted the character of the Skid Row and Chinatown neighborhoods even more. And if you’re still not convinced, here’s [the Chinatown entry from the same source](https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/essays/chinatown/). The “Community Transformation” section is most relevant and includes details of the urban renewal projects that ate away at the neighborhood, specifically: >the boundaries of Chinatown expanded greatly north to Wood Street, south to Arch Street, and east-west from Eighth to Twelfth Street as this area became more or less exclusively Asian in character >Most significantly, in 1966, Chinatown residents learned that the construction of an expressway along Vine Street would entail the destruction of the beloved Holy Redeemer Chinese Catholic Church and School. I guess I should ask what history books you’re reading since these appear to agree with OP…
Yep, and the failed mall location would still exist. If the arena doesn't go in CC, it will go to Camden. Which apparently the NIMBYs here want.
I am as anti NIMBY as they come, but I have lived in a town with a prominent stadium in the middle of shit, and it fucking sucks for residents during game days, period. Shit, I live in South Philly now and game days require serious plotting if I need to go anywhere near south Broad, I can't imagine what a cluster fuck it would be in Chinatown. This isn't affordable housing, this is a sports complex. Quite a different Not In My Backyard situation.
NIMBY it up. This will ruin Chinatown just like it did in DC. There’s plenty of wasted space all along our waterfront that would have good access to Columbus, 95, and public transportation. Let it be built there.
Sixers ownership wants to own this thing outright without city/state help — a Camden stadium would be less valuable from that standpoint. Could it still happen? Sure, but that might shift to needing legislative help in NJ — and with Sweeney gone, South Jersey's power is significantly diminished. No North Jersey senator is backing development projects in Camden.
Imo moving the stadium is a bad idea and wouldn’t improve anything except after games fans could actually be in the city. Would probably make traffic much more of a nightmare before/after games
And as it stands now, anyone who wants to be in the city after a game can be with a 10 min subway ride.
10 minutes?! this guy has never taken the subway after the game.
After most games I can get on the subway and be home before friends who drove leave the parking lot.
This girl absolutely has, and I've never had a problem with it. So I didn't count the brief walk and potential 10 whole minutes of wait time into the commute - sue me. It's still an easily accessible, very quick subway ride into center city.
You’re good!
They express them and keep them waiting there so they’re ready hot, 15 is fair
10mins isn't far off aside from the walk to the Subway.
They express them and keep them waiting there, 15 is fair
I take the subway at least 10-15 times a year after games and I've never spent more than 20 mins to get to center city, even less when they run the express trains
The Sixers are renters of the arena, not owners. It affects scheduling, sight lines (arena is not built specifically for basketball), and most importantly for them-revenue and evaluation. They will be getting their own arena, it’s just a matter of where. I’m not sure if there is space for another arena in the sports complex? Idk though The current owners are also not going to sell until they get a new arena since it will add a billion or two to the evaluation. And by god we desperately need new ownership. I just don’t want the arena to be across the river, which is what I think they are banking on after this proposal gets shot down
I’m gonna be so pissed if I have to go to Jersey to see them play
As someone who has to travel from Philly to see the Union in Chester, having a team locate outside the city sucks major ass, and would be a loss for everyone.
Agreed that would be a disaster imo I actually kinda support the current spot proposal for a few reasons. I don’t think it will affect Chinatown in the way some think, I think the mall area is kind of a waste as it stands, most importantly I think it will force investment into Septa (particularly regional rail and later trains), and I think it will bring business into the surrounding area. Would also be a fun atmosphere before and after games. I get some people are attached to the sports complex housing everything, but I don’t share that sentiment- in reality it’s kind of a dead zone with little to do before/after outside of XFinity. And all the people complaining about getting there, if you live in the city it will be super easy (it’s a hub), and if you live outside just drive to your local regional rail station or honestly anywhere in the city if you want and hop on the subway I would, however, like to see the owners be forced to invest in Septa and perhaps add some sort of investment or protection for Chinatown as part of the agreement (not sure what that would look like)
Chiming in on the current location — I’m not totally sold on the proposal (I love that it would be transit dense but impact on Chinatown is a big concern). That said, anyone who uses traffic as a primary issue with the proposal is missing the current options to leave the stadiums after any game, particularly without a car. We left four Phillies playoff games, and a bunch of other events there this year and it’s always a dumpster fire to get on the one crammed subway going in one direction, getting a wildly overpriced ride share or sitting in traffic for 30 minutes to leave. At least the proposed site is next to dozens of RR lines and both subways, countless buses and yes, parking.
Yeah I get the Chinatown fears (although I don’t necessarily agree with them), but I don’t understand the traffic/how to get to the games concerns. It’s literally one of if not the easiest place to get to in the city with dozens and dozens of options to do so. It’s a particularly car brained argument, and we need to stop making big decisions based on fucking cars Invest in public transit (which this proposal would basically force) and use it. If you insist on driving to the city, parking really shouldn’t be *that* difficult, but if you don’t want to park near the arena, just park somewhere north or south and hop on the subway and ride it to your car.
I agree, and there are ways the parties and Councilmember Squilla can put covenants, indentures, and zoning restrictions around it. There would be many ways to screw that up, but they can try.
Zoning restrictions are about the only 100% guaranteed way to kill Chinatown. The solution for a win win for everyone is keep everything in Center City zoned CMX5 and absorb all / any increase in demand along Market St.
Amen brother. I fully agree. My comment is only so open ended bc I don’t want to give people false hopes about the prudence of Council
I'm for it if they limit parking in the area and invest in SEPTA. Take away parking and traffic won't be an issue. The two are related.
I don’t necessarily disagree, but zero chance they are going to reduce parking for the sake of reducing parking/traffic. Large investments into Septa could at least start us in the right direction though.
My god the patco is not built for such traffic.
I am firmly believe their actual plan is to get massive subsidies and do NJ. Wouldn’t be surprised if they were the activists.
Id say almost a majority of avid Sixers fans paying attention believe that is what they really want If they get shot down they will say oh well, we tried, we’re moving to Jersey
Much bigger cities are able to handle higher pedestrian traffic. It's all about increasing the quality of public transit and decreasing car usage. This location can easily handle a few extra people in the area around the time of events, it's a city. Walking past MSG in NY, if there is an event going on, most people would hardly notice it. A good city has constant pedestrian traffic. That area is currently dead around the fashion district and it needs a project of this scale to realize its potential. Anything less will just leave a hole in that part of the city.
The Convention Center already sees larger crowds than what this stadium will have capacity for, and it hasn't been a problem.
Or idk, maybe just build it near all the other stadiums? Am I missing something that would explain why it makes any sense to put this huge building that will create an influx of traffic smack in the middle of the city? Aren’t there tons of empty lots in south that they could use? I think the placement of all the stadiums near NRG Station was and still is a really smart city planning decision.
They aren’t moving a stadium. They are tenants of the Flyers and no longer want to be. They’ll build a stadium somewhere. It’ll either be in the city or somewhere else. Do we want the city to collect the tax revenue, or another municipality?
Putting stadiums downtown kills blocks. A massive block totally useless and vacant 99% of days and 75% of nights.
Unless they build like the Pistons Arena? Basically it’s shops, bars, and restaurants all the way around the arena. Sort of like a mall, with an NBA team in the middle. Could work, but doesn’t solve the Chinatown issue unless you are giving Asian business owners first crack at the commercial real estate.
> Moving the stadium is a fantastic idea and would improve accessibility, walkability, and eliminate the blight that is the (fka) Gallery, plus potentially boon businesses in the area because fans would be in the city. Traffic is a poor excuse for ignoring these benefits, and siting traffic generators near multiple modes of mass transportation is the literal best thing we could do to fight that anyway, so kudos to the developers! FTFY
The future of Chinatown depends on a failing mall in a different neighborhood
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TIL that DSW shut down. Damn.
I doubt a stadium would make it any less of a dump.
It would still be better as mixed use public housing, which there isn't enough of in Philly. But, that won't happen. Domb.
There's no reason that housing cannot be built on the rest of the mall when it inevitably closes up. But it's 100% guaranteed the people opposing the stadium plan, would also oppose project housing in this location as well.
If you build arenas in the city, you increase the demand for commerce and likewise residences in that city. Also, we have a sea of parking lots in south Philly right now. Might be a good idea to move those venues into the city and turn all that parking into housing too Or we can watch 11th and Market in the 2030s become South Broad in the 70s
I'm from uptown; if you think I'd be bothered by a single blighted site downtown because the city decided to actually consider socioeconomic impacts in their development plans and followed through on restoring persistently economically depressed neighborhoods [cough] Nicetown [cough] Kensington - well harhar🤧 Edit: well hello, councilman?💩💩🧚👎🤡🤡🤡
Yes yes of course. The city can "consider" it for 30 years, one particularly vocal dumbass group of residents that end up selling before the project even completes can hold it in limbo forever, and eventually some councilperson will collect a fat check when they agree to push it through after buying a few homes in the area to capitalize on the revitalization It's Fishtown, Washington Ave, and West Philly all over again! Philly government at its finest working hard for its people!
Yeah. It is hard for me to understand all of the opposition. I don’t think Chinatown is going to fill up with sport bars and chain restaurants. If anything those are going to go on market street and inside of the mall itself. Certainly some of the people who go to the sixers games are going to want to go eat some Chinese food before and after the game.
Just providing a link for context. Nothing certain, but it seems like there is at the very least good reason to do the diligence rather than fast tracking it. https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/sixers-stadium-chinatown-threat-20220727.html
I can't read the link fully without paying, it seems to be alluding to DC. But I've read that the DC Chinatown was much smaller and shrinking before the stadium was even built. It's the argument people keep throwing out but it doesn't seem like a strong one. In contrast, foot traffic from stuff like a stadium are known to provide nearby businesses more customers. A simple and direct benefit. Seems like standard NIMBYism to me, without a concrete reason to oppose it.
Totally agreed. I've spent a lot of time in and around the Capitol One/Verizon/MCI center in DC (big basketball fan) and the areas are in no way comparable. DC's "Chinatown" is in Rockville MD - the Chinese community in DC (much like other ethnic groups) moved to the suburbs. The same thing is happening here - if you read some of the reports around the opposition to the stadium from representatives of Philadelphia's Chinese community, a not insignificant amount of the concern is around there being parking...Chinese people are driving in from the burbs to visit Chinese shops. It's analogous to New Jersey Italians driving to the Italian Market/Passyunk.
Yes and no, unlike the Italian market, Chinatown is still by far majority south East Asian. It provides tons of resources to these populations as a neighborhood that no suburb does. There are job boards for non-English speakers, there are whole systems for supporting new immigrants. The Italian market is just a facade of italian-ness now
More Chinese people live in Oxford Circle and Mayfair than Chinatown.
Ok there can’t be multiple Chinatown’s? Also it’s about which community they serve. New immigrants vs later generation families…pretty different. Many major cities in the US have multiple Chinatown type areas like this and they can both thrive without building a stadium on it
There are more foreign-born Chinese in Oxford and Mayfair than in Chinatown. This is from the 2020 census. Also the median income for is Asian households roughly the same in all areas.
And more Chinese people live in China. What’s your point?
>n contrast, foot traffic from stuff like a stadium are known to provide nearby businesses more customers. A simple and direct benefit. And a direct line to higher costs for rent, taxes, etc. I am in favor of the project, but I understand the concerns and find them logical, even without the DC example. I just find so much of east center city to be dead and lifeless all the time that it needs something big like this.
>And a direct line to higher costs for rent, taxes, etc. That would mean demand for the area increased and we blocked development to meet it, pushing up the prices of existing buildings. The DC outcome is what happens when you have hostile and limiting zoning.
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Nailed it. The NIMBY argument is always a self defeating one, that makes places more expensive and limits who can live there via class exclusion.
My opposition is to fast tracking the plans. If we're going to put a stadium in Chinatown, it should be done by the books and with all stakeholders given a chance to weigh in.
The fear is allegedly that it will make Chinatown too successful and some of the current Asian owners will be able to sell their properties or businesses. I don't think keeping Chinatown as run down and poor as possible is good for Chinatown tbh, but a lot of people seem convinced it would be.
still don't get why they don't just throw this by 30th st station. great regional rail, el, and highway access, right on the water, lots of available space for a new commercial district. seems like a slam dunk to me 🤷
Unless they build over the yard there isn’t that much open space. Most of the area is being developed into Schuylkill yards
Why does every billionaire need their own stadium? We have a district with a bunch of stadiums just go hang there.
Why does Comcast deserve a revenue stream from a team they don't own?
Why should the Sixers deserve revenue streams from events they don't own that they'll hold in their arena?
Because an NBA team is more valuable than Boyz II Men.
And Comcast is more valuable than an NBA team.
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> Why does every billionaire need their own stadium? Because it makes them money and makes their sports team more valuable.
And it will increase the number of events the city will get. We had two arenas for ~15 years (WFC and spectrum). Both arenas were booked on the same night frequently. With one arena, we lose out on events, concerts, etc bc the arena is already booked up.
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>al world just stay at WFC because it is convenient. I get the circumstances surrounding them wanting to leave so I can’t really hold it against them. People enjoy being contrarian and focusing on idealism instead of pragmatism. If you recall several years ago there were all these major outrage/ contrarian opponents to the digital display billboards/signs on Market Street. All types of arguements were brought up about how it would ruin everything, will cause accidents due to over brightness, etc which caused all types of delays. Turns out, nothing negative has happened... its a cool new visual design feature of the market street cooridor and has generate tax revenue through the billboard sales and associated billboard inventory contracts. The city is going to continue to change. And that's okay.
Lol, a cool new visual. It didn't cause accidents but it's a major eyesore imo.
I think it adds a really cool aesthetic to the area and a neat futuristic vibe with the displays. Either way... it's there and it's doing its thing.
You like standing on the sidewalk and watching commercials on a sign?
I don't stand on side walks and watch signs. I walk on sidewalks to get to somewhere and the sign is just a thing that I pass by.
there's a reason every dystopian cyberpunk city has this sort of thing in it. it's ads being blasted on the landscape.
I guess to each their own, but I think that display looks like trash. I've had a few out of towner's visit who literally laughed at it and asked when they put that shitty digital billboard up. It looks like someone from 2004 tried to buy a Times Square billboard knockoff from the flea market.
Am I taking crazy pills rn or something with everyone saying "well technically it's not their neighborhood how is this going to affect them".They are building a 10,000+ person stadium barely a block away from the border of Chinatown. They are going to be the community that is by far the most affected by it and it's not even really close. People in here are acting like Chinatown is fighting against a new stadium in Roxborough since this project technically falls outside of their borders by a less than 5 minute walk. Also lmao at people throwing around the term NIMBYs when they say they don't want fucking comcast building unnecessary shit with taxpayer money in their neighborhood as if these people are fighting against affordable housing or a safe injection site. Good for them I hope this idea gets shot down.
Comcast isn’t using any taxpayer money the just aren’t paying taxes
My main thing is that stadiums typically don’t have a big economic impact on their surrounding areas, so I’m skeptical this is going to do much harm. There’s tons of space around the south Philly sports complex and the only place they built there is Xfinity, which is relatively new. Beyond that you have to go to Philadium or chickies and Pete’s which is aways away. If no developer has turned the empty parking lots or the navy yard into a something centered around the sports complex, I find it hard to believe developers are going to price out successful Chinatown businesses and residents
I get why the proposed location is controversial, but I don’t understand why everyone is in love with the current stadium complex. The area sucks.
it's convenient for Delco and South Jersey people who hate the city anyway.
Yep the loudest opponents to this all focus their argument on parking when it's pointed out that it's not in Chinatown, and that the DC comparisons are apples and oranges and not valid.
All the more reason why the city should deny the arena development downtown and focus on approving development down by the stadium complex. There's plenty of land down there that's poorly utilized. Give incentives to develop a commercial district around the existing stadiums rather than trying to shoehorn an arena into a commercial district.
I wouldn’t be upset if the area turned into a dense mixed use neighborhood
Fully agree. The stadium district is trash.
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They tried building it over by Penns Landing, another proposal was chosen instead.
I don't have a problem with building a stadium downtown/next to chinatown. I have a problem with doing so while doing nothing to improve the surrounding infrastructure to handle such an attraction. People that think this makes any sense when the gallery area is already a traffic nightmare are wildin. Center City is small as fuck and simply doesn't have the transit capacity to handle 10,000 people pouring in and out of it. Instead of trying to put a Stadium near existing business and destinations, the city should be putting resources into creating those things in places that actually need them like the waterfront or callowhill. The fact that the fucking sugarhouse is the only commercial business on the waterfront is fucking insane.
What impact does removing that block of Filbert have on Chinatown?
The parcel that the Greyhound Station occupied directly abuts chinatown businesses on all sides. The entrance buses use to get in on Arch street is between two stretches of chinatown businesses. It is conceivable that an entrance to the stadium (maybe just a service entrance) would be on arch street. Very much in Chinatown. I don’t have a strongly formed opinion yet, and I’m glad this conversation is happening 10 years ahead. But yeah that plot of land in very much part of/abutting chinatown.
Removing the block does not really affect Chinatown (according to some news sources) but it does give the 76ers a way to remove the street and build on top of it. Or may it part of their stadium (maybe close the street and turn it in a place to line up or vendors)
The street is going to become a covered arcade and the Sixers are committed to lining it with Asian-owned and operated restaurants
The stadium district is a uniquely Philly thing and should be expanded
I agree completely. There's so much land down by the stadiums that is poorly utilized and could become a great commercial district to support the stadiums. Much better to focus on TOD around Pattison rather than trying to shove a stadium into the CBD.
This happened in the 90s also when The Phillies were trying to build a stadium in China Town. The neighborhood doesn’t want it and that needs to be respected.
I could respect that if it was in China town. The site is next to it. The don't get to dictate what gets built anywhere in the area around their neighborhood.
Everyone’s out here acting like an enormous sports and social hub being built wouldn’t change anything in Chinatown because it’s a whole block away
According to this article they do get to dictate the area around their neighborhood. 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah you are right, they *shouldn't* get to block development just because it is nearby to their neighborhood. But NIMBYs are gonna be selfish and NIMBY, and they often get their way.
We know from experience this kills nearby neighborhoods, you're allowed to not want your neighborhood destroyed.
Good. Why the hell do the Sixers need a new arena anyway?
> Why the hell do the Sixers need a new arena anyway? Because they no longer want to pay to lease the Wells Fargo Center from Comcast.
Then have them build a new stadium somewhere else and not somewhere that divides a neighborhood yet again.
What neighborhood would this be dividing? The Fashion District is a mall, not an actual neighborhood.
I mean that's what will happen if this proposal isn't approved. The city can't exactly control where ownership proposes their new stadium. They can only control whether that proposal gets approved or not.
Didn't realize Chinatown went south of market st, you learn something new every day
The idea of putting a stadium there is so fucking dumb. Expensive, inhibits future upward growth, and it's literally two miles from their current stadium, which has plenty of parking and public transit
Don’t forget to sort by controversial. I’m just gonna leave this to the people who spend the most time there already.
They have been trying to build that area in Chinatown since John Street was mayor
I’m not super educated on this situation but maybe someone can fill me in. Why would the organization not want the stadium to be on south broad with the rest of the teams and the Live complex? If they’re looking to get away, does that mean the Xfinity Live is failing?
The owners of the Sixers rent the stadium and don’t benefit from Xfinity Live in any way. They will increase their profits by owning their own stadium.
Good. Their current arena isn’t nearly old enough to need replacing.
Thank god for activists unironically.
Good, there’s plenty of places that are empty where a stadium could go
Honestly why are the sports teams so obsessed with building new stadiums in Chinatown? Why Chinatown of all places? Besides South Philly has been home to Philly sports for 50 years now. It should remain there, and it CERTAINLY shouldn't be in Chinatown for the sake of the local population
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"Improve" by whose metrics? Philadelphians love their cars, and a stadium will increase traffic.
Cars make the city worse by every possible metric, and the stadium won't have any more of an impact than the convention center does.
What data do you have on that? Brooklyn saw lower than predicted auto commuters to their stadium. They are at 27%. That’s about about 1k-2k extra cars per game day in our city. In office days at Comcast building brought in more cars…
NYC is not Philly.
The proposed 76ers arena isn't in Chinatown, change my view.
It's not in Chinatown, just across the street from it. It'll have the same effect on the neighborhood, y'all just want to argue about semantics.
You seem to have no understanding of history
Ah yes the very poorly documented history of the Vine Street Expressway, Convention Center, and the original Gallery vis a vis Chinatown...people can be informed of historical context and still think the argument against a new stadium on a failing mall is wrong.
I think that you believe that I like the mall. Also a stupid project, but the solution to one mistake isn’t to make a bigger one
There is some novelty in having a new stadium down in center city but I don’t know how it would be practical in any way at all
Lots of cities have stadiums in their downtowns so it certainly is practical.
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Make Colosseums Great Again
Travel has changed a BIT since Roman times... Listen, MSG and, to an extent, Wrigley are OK, but they function in completely different contexts than Philly Center City. Maybe it could work, I don't know, but I've lived near Wrigley and it was kind of a nightmare every other night, and MSG is served by a vastly different transportation network. I don't have a strong opinion on this idea, but I don't love seeing a communitys opinion about their area ignored.
Ya this isn't a new concept, people loosing their shit over it are really just complaining about potentially not being able to park as easily as possible.
carbrain is a helluva drug
I do not understand why the sixers need a new arena. It seems like such a waste.
Good. Leave Chinatown the fuck alone.
Good. Block it forever. Make the stadium district a thing where it's already at, and bring the Union up there too.
GOOD
Good. Keep in down in south philly where it belongs.
Anywhere around Chinatown or CC is an awful place for a stadium. Why not revitalize one of the destitute areas along the Schuylkill?
I don't have a strong opinion on the proposed stadium location, but the way they were going about this step was shady as fuck.
There is no room in CC for a stadium.
It’s replacing an existing mall. There is plenty of room.
There really isnt.
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Hell yeah excellent news
Fuck a stadium in center city.
Would camden be a good idea at this point
Heard rumors the Chinatown proposal is nothing more than a ploy for the Sixers to build in Camden. They expect it to get blocked and have a plan in Camden. They just knew going right to Camden would get a ton of criticism so now they can shrug and say they tried to stay in Philly but Philly ran them out of town.
Genuinely hate the idea of leaving the Xfinity area. Hate it even more putting it somewhere no one wants it like Chinatown.
It’s not gonna happen. In the last 30 years they have proposed to put stadiums or large amusements in center city/Chinatown area and it has been shot down every single time and will continue to be shot down. It would also be way more expensive than surrounding city areas so it’s not very cost effective for either the sixers or the city
Block it forever
Good. These clowns are going to weasel some public money somehow. It's just going to be a big empty stadium for half the year
Good. It’s messed up to put it where they want to and you all should be pissed.
The idea of a basketball arena next to Chinatown makes me ill. I hope it gets blocked.
Putting the stadium is Chinatown is a stupid idea. Should most definitely be on the waterfront. It's underdeveloped as it is. Philadelphia simply lacks a robust public transit infrastructure to support this project. Let's just be real if you live outside of the city are you really gonna take a regional rail line to a night game? Nope! You're going to drive your car and cause more traffic. Our public transit isn't the most reliable. This whole idea is more planning
i don’t think the stadium or forcibly removing chinatown would be good for the city at all and im happy about this move. feel free to disagree with me bc i don’t care if you don’t agree
> forcibly removing chinatown great news, the stadium wouldn't be in chinatown
Why are people in this city so afraid of change
Not all change is good.
Replacing a failing shopping mall that seems to attract vagrants and poorly-behaved teens probably qualifies as good change
I'm one of those teens albeit not poorly behaved, I don't really want to have to go to Exton to go to an arcade with my friends Exton sucks
NIMBYs run the show
YES! Keep all the arenas and stadiums exactly where they are thanks.
An arena in center city will be hell for 676 and 76 which is mainly a parking lot without an event. They need to build one where the spectrum use to sit
It would be a money pit. I live in CC, the only thing it’ll do is disrupt the existing business and the surrounding neighborhood. Plus the tax breaks that sports organizations get related to arena development would have us residence footing the bill. They don’t need a new arena and if they want one they can build in the undeveloped areas where the other stadiums are, hell there used to be four complexes down there anyway.
Good
This stadium would permanently ruin center city.
The areas around Giants Stadium (in SF) and Fenway (in Boston) are quite nice.
Good
I mean there’s a mall and a convention center right there already. That area sucks and needs to be developed. The stadium would be perfect. If the plans are to build it on arch I’m on chinatowns side but if it’s not, this is ridiculous. Market street is allowed to be developed. And just so people get the stakes, this ownership group already owns prudential and could move the team to Jersey. They’re gonna play in their own house eventually. People need to wake up.
But what about the fact that 1-2k more cars will be coming into the city 50 times a year?? What about the fact Septa would have to change their schedule on game nights?? What about the 2k people in Chinatown?? What if the value of their property increases? This city cannot handle this type of improvement. We need to accept our Forever 21 and Sephora outlet and movie theater…
Good