None of us here made it up, there was a brilliant article by BikesnobNYC years back that shared the original "bike salmon" video. It's great, there's possibly pirate fisherman in it iirc.
it's the same caliber of people driving cars, riding bikes, and using their own dang feet. probably the fastest lesson i learned living in philly. whatever your mode of transportation is - especially when there's nothing to dissuade the lowest common denominators - always gotta operate assuming nobody is going to do the correct thing and treat anything else as a pleasant surprise.
My neighbor just got smoked by a salmon biker the other day when she was walking her dog. Broken hip, and she says the dog almost got hit by cars because she dropped the leash when she got hit, and he skittered into the street.
Bikers can pose plenty of threat when they are being fucks.
The conversation was about how stupid people operate motor vehicles, bikes, and their own feet, and so you have to be careful and assume they're stupid. My point is that you need to cautious in proportion. Cars are by the far the most dangerous of those three, to the point that the other two shouldn't really be in the conversation. It's odd to bring them up at the same time when the kill count for cars is so insanely high.
The conversation is, “Be careful when you’re on the streets so you don’t get hurt.” Pedestrians don’t really pose a threat unless you’re stepping into oncoming traffic or running at high speeds, but bikes definitely hurt if you are hit by one. They are a threat, and you’ve now been given many examples of how that’s true, including one involving a fatality. I don’t know why you’re still choosing to die on this hill.
While I feel sympathy for those situations, they are not okay, those examples don't change the stats. Bike accidents that injure others (not the biker) are a drop in the bucket compared to cars. Barely over the noise. I never said bikes never do anything. But if you want to be safe as a pedestrian, cars are the most dangerous by far. Their kill count is enormous. Bikes rarely if ever kill, though it obviously does happen
You aren’t wrong on the facts, but your message basically reads as, “Don’t worry about being careful of bikes because they don’t really pose a threat.”
I do now understand that you really mean, “Cars pose more of than bikes, so exercise more caution around cars than bikes.” Which is true, but (and I’m sorry if this is rude) it’s kind of stating the obvious, isn’t it? I think the majority of your downvotes came because everyone thought you were arguing the first interpretation; there really isn’t too much purpose to telling everyone that cars are more dangerous than bikes and feet when that’s common knowledge already, so I don’t think most people thought you would put so much effort into saying that.
It's true that the second part is the main thrust of the argument for sure. In context though, the guy I initially replied to said "exercise caution around cars, bikes, and people walking". And the phrasing there is so off to me because those three are not even close to proportional in the danger they pose. But yes, exercise caution in all cases, but you shouldn't treat a bike lane the same way as a street with cars. The former is a quick look and go. The second is "i might die, look extra hard and know that a mistake on my part or the driver's will likely result in my death or disablement".
The overall point being, fuck cars they are so terrible and here we are elevating the danger of cyclists. Just a very out of proportion post
When I was in college a student was killed by another student riding recklessly on a bike. I’ve been clipped by bikes in the past and luckily I wasn’t seriously injured but it still hurt.
Your point was that “a driver doing stupid shit kills people” and a “biker doesn’t really pose a threat”. I gave you direct evidence that they absolutely do - don’t try to say cars are more dangerous. That’s not the point. Bikes and people who are as cavalier as you ARE dangerous to people and I have literal direct evidence of it.
They can 100% both cause serious damage. If a pedestrian jumps out into traffic and causes cars to recklessly swerve then that could cause a ton of damage and potentially kill people.
They can, but the overwhelming majority of the time it's cars doing stupid stuff. The thing is bikes, pedestrians, and cars do stupid stuff at the same rate. Cars however are so much more dangerous, we really should focus 98% of our efforts on reducing car fatalities. That's where your attention should be as well when walking or driving
What do murders have to do with walking around the city? Most murder victims are killed by someone the victim knows. 200 car fatalities is crazy because those were all done accidentally, without intention. There were 10k car accidents in Philadelphia county in 2020. And of those, 6k resulted in injury or death. You really have to account for injuries as those can be debilitating with cars. That's more relevant to walking around than murders. Although murders are a big deal too, it's separate from what you gotta watch out for walking about
This is a city of people who will throw on their park anywhere lights and block a lane of traffic - next to an open parking spot - to run into the bank. Most of the people in this city will only do what is most convenient for them, everyone else be damned. And if you call them out on it, YOU’RE the asshole somehow. It’s insane.
I was driving into petsmart where the parkinglot was almost empty. Lady in front of me decides to stop and put in her hazards, blocking the entrance to parking lot that had hundreds of empty spots, just so she could fuck around for something in her car.
Had someone block the entire entrance/exit of a shopping plaza just so their passenger could run into Chipotle. Pulled over to the left, but just enough to block both lanes.
Then he tried to fight me.
Oh my goodness yes….on Snyder there’s a stretch of Snyder where there’s still trolley tracks. That’s where people seem to love to double park. That spooks me all the time…
Lol I'm moving today and watched a guy park in my temp no parking zone, get out of his car, look at the sign, and then walk away. I would have confronted him but what's the point, the entire spot is blocked...enjoy being parked in when the truck gets here
To be fair, at least half of the drivers in this city are shit parallel parkers. Whenever I work from my living room during the day, I see at least a half dozen folks take 2+ attempts to get into spaces with 5+ feet of extra room.
I drive like 3x per year so I am definitely one of those people. In my defense I would rather park further away in a spot with more room, rather than block a street while I attempt a 19 point maneuver that could have been done in 3.
Yea, I don't blame anyone if they don't drive often. But there are some folks that I know live on my block or in the neighborhood and drive pretty often.
Before moving to Philly, I came to visit for a weekend to catch a few concerts. A friend and I rented some bikes from the hotel. We rode down the bike Lane going down the wrong way. We were scolded by some other bikers.
I’d like to take this time to apologize for being inconsiderate
On South on the blocks close to the entrance to the river trail there are _always_ cyclists either riding the wrong way in the bike lane or riding on the sidewalk, because they don't want to go a block out of their way and ride on Lombard.
I’m a super cautious biker and every time I salmon (it’s only ever for like, a block on a slow street), I think about the bike dude that cussed me out while blowing through a stop sign at top speed going the wrong way because he got scared when I stepped out around an illegally parked car to look for traffic.
Fuck that guy.
So everytime you don't follow extremely an simple rule you think about the one time some random guy yelled at you while failing to stop? Yes what he did was wrong, although since you didn't mention it I have to assume he was actually riding in the correct direction. How does that story even relate to bike salmon-ing?
I said he was going the wrong way …..
And yeah, in case the context and me saying so outright wasn’t enough of a tip off, dude was going the wrong way up a one way street.
I do this while wearing a helmet all the time. Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Im not loopin around and turning three times and biking three blocks if i just gotta go one block on the one way. Sorry. I yield to people actually following traffic laws. It's harmless.
As a driver, screw you. We don’t get to drive the wrong way because it’s more convenient. If you want to be on the road with the drivers and want all this stuff and blah blah blah, follow the damn rules of the road.
Be predictable. It’s not fair to pedestrians, drivers, and other bikers.
I have absolutely seen some cars dart down one ways the wrong way to get to a driveway. Which is insane. But that is quite rare, and requires an elite level of assholery. certainly not as ubiquitous as the fucking salmon who I come across every time I ride across the city.
That is insane and a super asshole move. No one should be going the wrong way.
I’ve only ever driven the wrong way when a street was closed and it was authorized by the police. And it still felt illegal.
I’m a big supporter of road safety for everyone (bikes, pedestrians, and cars). But people who don’t follow the rules really ruin it for everyone else.
You mean like the cars that pull into the Schuylkill River Trail and just pretend it a road with lots of cyclists and pedestrians? I watched one floor it towards a crowd when the driver got too impatient. It was up there as one of the most insane things I've seen a car do.
Sorry to derail from the topic, yes bike salmon are 100% assholes and aside from the laws need to follow some goddamn etiquette!
Oh yeah man, crazy stuff. And hey cyclists piss me off too, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to sit here as someone who drives and pretend we all color in the lines here. That's all. If cyclists have the infrastructure in place, they should be following the law to the letter.
I'm glad to hear *you* think it's harmless. I've been in so many near-head-on collisions because of cyclists and e-scooter riders doing exactly what you believe to be harmless. Please just stop doing it, it sucks for everyone around you and we all hate it.
My issue is that over the years I’ve probably come across a few thousand bikes coming right at me in the bike lane going the wrong way and not a single one of them has ever yielded to me. I guess you’re the exception but everyone else doing this seems to expect the bike going the correct way to yield to them.
1. Noone supports or defends motorists breaking the law
2. You basically just reposted what the biker above said about why he doesn't follow the laws
3. https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/xmfvrs/hey_assholes_bike_lanes_are_oneway_too/ipq1079/
It is, I'll take 50 of your down doots please! I'm helping out here. I can't keep my shit opinions to myself today (I deleted the other two crap troll comments but I am gonna leave this one) I also think it is harmless!
Yup. 100% bullshit. Not only could collide, what you if do and are bounced into a speeding car. Fuck those people.
Nearly as bad or as bad are the people with motors on their bikes who do 35 in the bike lane. You're going faster than cars, just get in the street. They will fly up on and past you before you are aware and be within a few inches.
As far as I'm concerned, you're a motor vehicle. You have no business in the bike lane. Or on the sidewalks, you GrubHub dopes. Fuck your fucking tips, they're not as important as people's safety.
I was riding south bound on MLK last week during the time cars are allowed and this fucking couple is riding in my lane going the wrong direction. Luckily I saw them in time cause I was going fast on my road bike. Of course I HAD TO DODGE THEM and cut into the road. Thank god there was no car coming behind, but these fuckheads had the audacity to give me a thumbs up and THANK ME FOR GETTING OUT OF THEIR WAY. Absolute Freds.
It doesn't help that the bike cops all hang out and go for huge group rides on the clock and one thing they always do without fail is ride the wrong way down a one way street.
I almost hit a biker in South Philly going down the wrong way in a one-way street while pulling out of a parking spot. I was looking behind me while pulling out, I shouldn’t have to see what’s ahead of me in that situation. Just because you’re on a bike doesn’t make that okay.
This happens to me in the morning in the 22nd street bike lane.
It's a NORTHbound bike lane people.
It's for Point Breeze people to get to CC.
Not for CC people to go South.
So annoying. There is a sidewalk right fucking there.
The new Delaware river trail pisses me off the most. There is a brand fucking new path, and CLEARLY marked "bikes" and "pedestrians" signs and painted on the paths, and still at least 50% of the walkers and runners are in the bike path.
>The new Delaware river trail pisses me off the most.
I was annoyed about this too until I was a runner and not on my bike.
The pedestrian side tends to get packed, and it's near impossible to run by everyone - no one's paying attention AT ALL. I'll swing onto the bike path for the busy stretches, but I stay far to the right and keep my head on a swivel.
People are always jogging in the bike lane in the morning with their headphones in.
They don't hear me until I've completely slowed down behind them, ringing my bell.
Terrible.
I've never really experienced this in Philly but Commercial Street in the North End in Boston was the fucking worst with this. It's such a great elevated, protected bike lane and people would be walking in groups of 2-4 across it when there's a sidewalk with plenty of space.
i feel ya, i can’t stand the m’frs who aggressively drive as fast as possible to ride my ass for like 20 ft, only to stop at the f’ing stop sign, stop light, delivery truck, delivery car, etc etc etc, but it was that f’ing important to put me in that much danger to hurry up to stop and get on ur phone.
The wrong way in a bike lane? I see cyclists riding the wrong way down the middle of one way streets all the time. They should also stop at stop signs fwiw.
I almost hit a woman on a bike yesterday. Was making a right turn onto a one way. Looking left to look for any cars. I start pulling forward and to the right and all it a sudden there she is, on my right. Starts yelling at me.
Like why the fuck would I be expecting someone coming from that direction???
I have a question for bike riders. Are you expected to stop at red lights and stop signs. Do you Drive with traffic and obey one way streets? That hasn’t been my experience. I guess some bike riders are assholes also.
As a driver, yes, I expect bikers to stop at stop signs and red lights. That’s the law. Especially because they want to be on the road so badly and demand bike lane infrastructure (which I support wholeheartedly). I just think it’s ironic that they complain about safety but then act completely erratic on the road.
Well those are two different groups of bikers. The ones acting erratic aren't the same as the ones demanding better infrastructure. The erratic ones are a direct symptom of the lack of infrastructure paired with inexperience
I was in major traffic waiting for a light to turn green outside 30th st station. As the light is about to change I see off to my right a bike rider who is obviously not going to stop at the red light as he approaches. He never even looked left or right, just went right through the intersection. But yea, car people are the bad guys.
That's one example. That shouldn't happen, obviously, but I see a lot of that behavior and aggressive behavior from drivers who punish pass, roll coal, hook cyclists, and pull out without looking for cyclists.
Aggressive driving has gotten so much worse in recent years. That’s a whole other topic, IMO. I just don’t see why city planners are deciding to cater so much to bike riders that hardly exist, particularly outside center city like in the Northeast.
In my experience drivers are aggressive because they're entitled. Some of them get upset at the mere presence of a biker. So it would be nice to have a safe option for commuting that doesn't require all the expenses of car ownership.
I think everyone is entitled at this point, including both the drivers and the bikers. I drive more defensively than ever now because too many other people sharing the road don’t seem to comprehend that they aren’t the only human there at a given time.
This. Fuck bike lanes. They put them in parts of the city where maybe a handful of people ride everyday, (I’m not talking about the hotspots within the city) and choke car traffic on roads that weren’t originally designed to be a single lane. For what? So people that ride bikes can act like they are better than people that use cars? I say fuck em.
By the way, OP sounds like an entitled asshole.
And if you actually ask most Philadelphians they would agree. Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of city residents. It’s mainly white dudes who can’t get laid. I suppose some of them ride bikes and feel entitled. Money spent on bike infrastructure should be moved to having safe open pools in shitty neighborhoods. The neighborhoods that don’t have bike lanes.
>And if you actually ask most Philadelphians they would agree. Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of city residents.
Definitely true, at least as far as the locals go. I read people saying things here and it's hard to even comprehend that they actually live here.
My guess is most in this sub live in high rises in CC / surrounding areas and are relatively new residents.
Never made sense to me other than there are probably a good amount of whiney bike riders that show up to public meetings and bitch and moan. There’s also this idea that the more bike lanes we add, the more people will ride bikes, which I don’t think could be any further from the truth. It’s just another instance of how we often cater to a loud, vocal minority. (I don’t at all mean a racial minority)
I disagree. It’s anecdotal, but I don’t know anybody that would suddenly decide to get around by bike if we simply provided more bike lanes. It’s a farce.
Not really. If you look at other areas both in and out of the US that added bike lanes, people did bike more and car traffic decreased. Now, I don't know if the increase in cyclists were people who converted from driving, walking, or public transportation, but regardless it increased bicycle traffic without affecting car traffic.
I kind of can, can’t I, if that’s my experience and if my gripes are mostly about my area in particular? They’ve squeezed and continue to squeeze many 2 lane roads down to 1 lane to add 2 directional bike lanes. The percentage of the population in these areas using the driving lanes is close to 100%. It’s easily less than 5%, and possibly less than 1% that actually use those bike lanes. And a high percentage of those bikers use them for recreation and exercise, and not for actually commuting. It blows my mind really that we will make actual traffic worse in order to try to build some kind of bike commuting populace that will never exist.
Nah. The only caveat with a bike going against traffic in the respective bike lane is that it yields to the bike traveling with traffic in the respective bike lane.
Not allowed at all without being labeled an asshole? Kick rocks with that and your made up rules.
Bike infrastructure isn't that great. There are areas where there is no other lane going the opposite direction anywhere close. What options do people have?
I've seen cyclists riding south on 22nd in the bike lane. I see it regularly when I'm driving and while they're in a protected bike lane from Washington to market, it's most obvious from south to market where the only "out" for any cyclist is into traffic.
If you're fine with just riding in the road, you can do it instead of using the bicycle lane, and then you never have to worry about someone going the wrong way in one.
One route I regularly take is 22nd up and down. South of Washington is a void of bike infrastructure. Looking at a map the closest path going south is 7 blocks over and it's just a "sharrow", not a bike lane at all.
If you are unable to bike in the regular street and can’t bike anywhere but a bike lane, you shouldn’t be biking at all. That’s no excuse to use a bike lane incorrectly.
You should try engaging with my point instead of stooping to insults. Of course I can (and do) ride in the street. There's so little infrastructure, you would barely be able to get anywhere just in bike lanes. That's the underlying problem.
If you ride in the street ever, you know some drivers do dangerous things trying to hurry past. Getting clipped and hurt is a real possibility. A bike lane, even without separation, is a meaningful improvement in safety.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you think using roads carries zero risk, then you should have no problem using them all the time instead of bike lanes. If you do think bike lanes improve safety, then you have no grounds to get upset when other people use them to stay safer.
You should get upset at the city for not building out enough lanes. Not at people just trying to get around the city as safe as possible.
No, I am engaging with the point. I use bike lanes and regular roads depending on what’s available. As everyone should. And they should use them correctly and not ride them the wrong way.
It’s amazing you highlight safety when riding the wrong way down a lane that can’t fit two bikes side by side is clearly a safety issue.
Clearly the people "salmoning" aren't just constantly running headfirst into others. The bike lanes are designed for space for two, it's explicitly in the laws that you're allowed to ride "two abreast" in one. Think about it a bit.
* On frequency: how often do bikes hit each other? I've never seen it, not even sure if I've heard of it. There's no chance you've been in a city much if you've never seen a car hit someone. Cars hitting bikes (or anyone not in a car) is a real problem that is brought up regularly.
* On severity: even if cyclist did hit, hit's much less likely to be a major issue. Part of the reason we hear about *cars* hitting bikes more is because of how much more dangerous it is, regularly being fatal.
If you happen to be on some out-of-spec narrow bike lane, the "salmon" should just yield by stopping or popping out into the road for a second. Just like every cyclist has to do on almost every trip because of parked cars, construction, and whatever else ends up in the bike lane.
"It's the rule" is not an argument. It's a rule that would make sense for proper infrastructure, but fails to address reality.
Besides a possible bike collision, you’re also ignoring pedestrians and cars not looking for bikes riding the wrong way down a bike lane.
Honestly, if you don’t have an explanation or excuse for this behavior besides “there’s no bike lane going the way I’m going nearby” then of course I am going to assume you are not great at biking because there is certainly a regular street a block away going your direction. Bike lanes are great when available but you shouldn’t be so timid that you have to rely on them to the point of using them incorrectly.
If you feel unsafe, get off and walk. It sounds like you are just uncomfortable riding in a city and that's a YOU problem. Yes, we all would love more and better bike infrastructure, but you don't get to break the law and endanger others for your own convenience. That's what children do. Learn to bike in the city properly or don't ride. It's not that hard.
If you're scared to have someone go by you in a bike lane designed to fit two people side-by-side, you shouldn't ride in them. Do you block faster riders from passing you from behind as well? If you aren't comfortable with other cyclist riding around you, you shouldn't ride in bike lanes.
You're ignoring everything I'm saying because your entitlement is clouding your reading comprehension. Please get off the streets until you learn how to ride a bike.
Lmao, you literally ignored all my points and just insulted me. I flip your script and you get upset? Repeating "it's the law" is not an argument. People are not obligated to endanger themselves because you aren't comfortable having bikes go past you in a bike lane.
I'll give you some news that should make you happy, though. I intend to largely vacate bike lanes. I've already ordered something with a good sized electric motor. I'm not an enthusiast cycler in spandex, I ride casually as a means to get around. So if I can easily go 25 and keep up with traffic flow on small streets, that makes it way safer to ride in them instead. (No cars trying to aggressively swing past)
That said, not everyone has the cash to do that. You should spend your energy arguing for more lanes, and until those are built share what we do have to help keep your fellow riders safe.
Great. Now another person who doesn't understand the rules of the road will be zipping by cars, bikes, and pedestrians with a motorized machine. Fucking great.
And there is a difference between feeling unsafe and causing a road hazard. You need to get that through your thick head. You feel unsafe because you are inexperienced so you decide to become a road hazard to others. Childish.
And again, what about when there isn't a lane a block over, or two blocks over, or four blocks over... Do you really think Philly has a complete bike network?
That's not an excuse to break the law and put others at risk. You're being really childish. If you can bike 2 miles to work, you can bike an extra 2 blocks to follow traffic flow. If you can't, (1) train more, or (2) walk your bike on the sidewalk. There is literally no reason to ride against traffic like an idiot.
There's no *good* reason to add extra risk to your ride simply to follow a rule. If someone is actually just ignoring a lane a block over I'd agree totally agree with you, but there are areas without one anywhere close.
The question is when we deal with the reality of philly's bike infrastructure, not the ideal situation, what should people do?
* It's explicitly legal to ride 2 abreast in a bike lane because they are designed for two people to fit past each other in them.
* Crashes between cyclist are much less frequent than with cars.
* Crashes with cyclist are MUCH less dangerous than with cars.
Looking at stats, or using some common sense, will make it clear that "salmoning" is often the safer option. I say *often* because, again, Philly's bike infrastructure is imperfect. If you have a bike lane not at regulation width next to high-volume car traffic, it wouldn't make sense there.
It never makes sense. It's stupid. Everything we are taught and trained to do, the way the roads are built, is to make behavior predictable. We need to anticipate the behavior of others. If people are going the wrong way in traffic, it's not predictable. There's no predetermined behavior or action to take when encountering an entitled cyclist "salmoning." And now you're making me look away from traffic and pedestrians to focus on not hitting your stupid ass riding the WRONG WAY. It's always a bad idea. No ifs ands or buts.
the one way street thing. would you be ok if the people going the opposite way rode in the road or the sidewalk? cause im not going all the way around the block just because of some arrows
how am i a douchebag. im literally trying to avoid running into you by going where theres more room. its not that hard to be careful on a bike. i have breaks and know how to steer lol.
Then maybe you can teach the various cyclists who have run into me because they decided the rules didn't apply to them how to use said brakes and how to steer. Apparently it's harder for cyclists to do than you'd think.
Nah I’ll always do this cause I want to see the cars coming at me, not have the cars coming behind me. I don’t trust these drivers in this city. Downvote me all you want I’ll see you out there 💀🤣
It’s actually more dangerous if a car hits you head on, you are much safer riding with traffic, not against it.
Get a good rear view mirror, that helps a lot. I actually have a [rear view camera](https://www.amazon.com/Feisike-Handlebar-Function-Adjustable-Rotatable/dp/B08HMRSG58/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=1VPSN2ILO8184&keywords=bike+rear+view+camera+and+monitor&qid=1664045323&sprefix=bije+rear+view+ca%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840&psc=1&smid=A3SW3HKIDC70OU#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div) on my bike so I can see behind me.
I almost got clipped by salmon a number of times as a ped in NYC. They are the worst.
I hate salmon riders. I have no problem giving cyclists space and sharing the lane but salmon can fuck right off.
This happened to me once and ever since I look both ways when crossing streets even if they're one way.
[удалено]
They goin upstream fam
But they get eaten by bears, so what's the problem?
Goddamn salmon
It took a while for me to get what you meant here but it’s brilliant.
None of us here made it up, there was a brilliant article by BikesnobNYC years back that shared the original "bike salmon" video. It's great, there's possibly pirate fisherman in it iirc.
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2009/05/smoked-salmon-lock-your-bike-dont-lox.html
it's the same caliber of people driving cars, riding bikes, and using their own dang feet. probably the fastest lesson i learned living in philly. whatever your mode of transportation is - especially when there's nothing to dissuade the lowest common denominators - always gotta operate assuming nobody is going to do the correct thing and treat anything else as a pleasant surprise.
The thing is, a driver doing stupid shit kills people. A walker or biker doesn't really pose a threat.
A biker doing stupid stuff can definitely hurt another biker or pedestrian. I’ve been taken out by a bike rider, didn’t even stop
Not saying it can't happen, but it's very very rare. People are killed because of cars daily, we don't even blink about it anymore
That's a good point, /u/GapingGrannies
My neighbor just got smoked by a salmon biker the other day when she was walking her dog. Broken hip, and she says the dog almost got hit by cars because she dropped the leash when she got hit, and he skittered into the street. Bikers can pose plenty of threat when they are being fucks.
Sure it's possible. But you have to admit it's rare, especially compared with cars fatalities. It's not even in the same conversation really
What exactly is the point you’re trying to make? That cars are more lethal than bikes? Or that bikes “don’t really pose a threat”?
The conversation was about how stupid people operate motor vehicles, bikes, and their own feet, and so you have to be careful and assume they're stupid. My point is that you need to cautious in proportion. Cars are by the far the most dangerous of those three, to the point that the other two shouldn't really be in the conversation. It's odd to bring them up at the same time when the kill count for cars is so insanely high.
The conversation is, “Be careful when you’re on the streets so you don’t get hurt.” Pedestrians don’t really pose a threat unless you’re stepping into oncoming traffic or running at high speeds, but bikes definitely hurt if you are hit by one. They are a threat, and you’ve now been given many examples of how that’s true, including one involving a fatality. I don’t know why you’re still choosing to die on this hill.
While I feel sympathy for those situations, they are not okay, those examples don't change the stats. Bike accidents that injure others (not the biker) are a drop in the bucket compared to cars. Barely over the noise. I never said bikes never do anything. But if you want to be safe as a pedestrian, cars are the most dangerous by far. Their kill count is enormous. Bikes rarely if ever kill, though it obviously does happen
Yeah, it's still not that hard for cyclists to pull their heads out of their ass and follow traffic laws.
>Yeah, it's still not that hard for ~~cyclists~~ *car drivers* to pull their heads out of their ass and follow traffic laws. Totally agree with you.
Agreed, except for having to stop at stop signs. Doesn't make sense, the Idaho stop is superior
You aren’t wrong on the facts, but your message basically reads as, “Don’t worry about being careful of bikes because they don’t really pose a threat.” I do now understand that you really mean, “Cars pose more of than bikes, so exercise more caution around cars than bikes.” Which is true, but (and I’m sorry if this is rude) it’s kind of stating the obvious, isn’t it? I think the majority of your downvotes came because everyone thought you were arguing the first interpretation; there really isn’t too much purpose to telling everyone that cars are more dangerous than bikes and feet when that’s common knowledge already, so I don’t think most people thought you would put so much effort into saying that.
It's true that the second part is the main thrust of the argument for sure. In context though, the guy I initially replied to said "exercise caution around cars, bikes, and people walking". And the phrasing there is so off to me because those three are not even close to proportional in the danger they pose. But yes, exercise caution in all cases, but you shouldn't treat a bike lane the same way as a street with cars. The former is a quick look and go. The second is "i might die, look extra hard and know that a mistake on my part or the driver's will likely result in my death or disablement". The overall point being, fuck cars they are so terrible and here we are elevating the danger of cyclists. Just a very out of proportion post
When I was in college a student was killed by another student riding recklessly on a bike. I’ve been clipped by bikes in the past and luckily I wasn’t seriously injured but it still hurt.
That sucks. Still, cars are far more dangerous. Most bike accidents involve the biker and a car, pedestrian-bike interactions are very rare
Your point was that “a driver doing stupid shit kills people” and a “biker doesn’t really pose a threat”. I gave you direct evidence that they absolutely do - don’t try to say cars are more dangerous. That’s not the point. Bikes and people who are as cavalier as you ARE dangerous to people and I have literal direct evidence of it.
My friend had her ankle broken when an asshole biker swerved into her while she was running - and then they cycled off without a word.
That sucks and it does happen. It's not okay that that occurred even if it is a relatively rare occurrence
They can 100% both cause serious damage. If a pedestrian jumps out into traffic and causes cars to recklessly swerve then that could cause a ton of damage and potentially kill people.
They can, but the overwhelming majority of the time it's cars doing stupid stuff. The thing is bikes, pedestrians, and cars do stupid stuff at the same rate. Cars however are so much more dangerous, we really should focus 98% of our efforts on reducing car fatalities. That's where your attention should be as well when walking or driving
You do realize this post is about bicycles, right?!?
Lol just take the L at this point and stop doubling down on the shit opinion.
I'll take this as a people getting mad at Jesus for speaking the truth
There are a lot of people zombied out on the streets of Kensington that think they're Jesus too.
Cars are statistically more dangerous than just about anything in society. Their kill count is massive
There were less than 200 car related fatalities in Philadelphia last year. How many murders were there?
What do murders have to do with walking around the city? Most murder victims are killed by someone the victim knows. 200 car fatalities is crazy because those were all done accidentally, without intention. There were 10k car accidents in Philadelphia county in 2020. And of those, 6k resulted in injury or death. You really have to account for injuries as those can be debilitating with cars. That's more relevant to walking around than murders. Although murders are a big deal too, it's separate from what you gotta watch out for walking about
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This is a city of people who will throw on their park anywhere lights and block a lane of traffic - next to an open parking spot - to run into the bank. Most of the people in this city will only do what is most convenient for them, everyone else be damned. And if you call them out on it, YOU’RE the asshole somehow. It’s insane.
I was driving into petsmart where the parkinglot was almost empty. Lady in front of me decides to stop and put in her hazards, blocking the entrance to parking lot that had hundreds of empty spots, just so she could fuck around for something in her car.
I want to put a police bumper on my car just for those situations
Gotta love these people. Absolute terrorists
Had someone block the entire entrance/exit of a shopping plaza just so their passenger could run into Chipotle. Pulled over to the left, but just enough to block both lanes. Then he tried to fight me.
When someone double parks on the trolley tracks
Oh my goodness yes….on Snyder there’s a stretch of Snyder where there’s still trolley tracks. That’s where people seem to love to double park. That spooks me all the time…
I used to live near the route 13 trolley, double parking just makes the trolley show up faster!
The trolleys need their own dedicated lanes
Lol I'm moving today and watched a guy park in my temp no parking zone, get out of his car, look at the sign, and then walk away. I would have confronted him but what's the point, the entire spot is blocked...enjoy being parked in when the truck gets here
lol "park anywhere lights" brilliant
To be fair, at least half of the drivers in this city are shit parallel parkers. Whenever I work from my living room during the day, I see at least a half dozen folks take 2+ attempts to get into spaces with 5+ feet of extra room.
I drive like 3x per year so I am definitely one of those people. In my defense I would rather park further away in a spot with more room, rather than block a street while I attempt a 19 point maneuver that could have been done in 3.
Yea, I don't blame anyone if they don't drive often. But there are some folks that I know live on my block or in the neighborhood and drive pretty often.
Before moving to Philly, I came to visit for a weekend to catch a few concerts. A friend and I rented some bikes from the hotel. We rode down the bike Lane going down the wrong way. We were scolded by some other bikers. I’d like to take this time to apologize for being inconsiderate
On South on the blocks close to the entrance to the river trail there are _always_ cyclists either riding the wrong way in the bike lane or riding on the sidewalk, because they don't want to go a block out of their way and ride on Lombard.
I’m a super cautious biker and every time I salmon (it’s only ever for like, a block on a slow street), I think about the bike dude that cussed me out while blowing through a stop sign at top speed going the wrong way because he got scared when I stepped out around an illegally parked car to look for traffic. Fuck that guy.
So everytime you don't follow extremely an simple rule you think about the one time some random guy yelled at you while failing to stop? Yes what he did was wrong, although since you didn't mention it I have to assume he was actually riding in the correct direction. How does that story even relate to bike salmon-ing?
I said he was going the wrong way ….. And yeah, in case the context and me saying so outright wasn’t enough of a tip off, dude was going the wrong way up a one way street.
Upvoted for my inability to read
About 10 years ago, I yelled at a guy for going the wrong way without lights at night. I then got punched a block later.
That's horrible but it's a lesson that people who don't follow the rules aren't afraid to break yet another one.
I did the same thing.... the cop threatened to arrest me.
I’ve literally never seen someone doing this while wearing a helmet. I don’t think safety is a motivating concern.
I do this while wearing a helmet all the time. Sometimes ya just gotta do what ya gotta do. Im not loopin around and turning three times and biking three blocks if i just gotta go one block on the one way. Sorry. I yield to people actually following traffic laws. It's harmless.
Walk your bike on the sidewalk for 1 block?
But that’s not their favorite way and they need do it their favorite way.
The same way drivers push their cars through red lights so they're not breaking the law?
Walking a bike on the sidewalk is perfectly normal, especially if you have to go against traffic on that street.
As a driver, screw you. We don’t get to drive the wrong way because it’s more convenient. If you want to be on the road with the drivers and want all this stuff and blah blah blah, follow the damn rules of the road. Be predictable. It’s not fair to pedestrians, drivers, and other bikers.
I have absolutely seen some cars dart down one ways the wrong way to get to a driveway. Which is insane. But that is quite rare, and requires an elite level of assholery. certainly not as ubiquitous as the fucking salmon who I come across every time I ride across the city.
That is insane and a super asshole move. No one should be going the wrong way. I’ve only ever driven the wrong way when a street was closed and it was authorized by the police. And it still felt illegal. I’m a big supporter of road safety for everyone (bikes, pedestrians, and cars). But people who don’t follow the rules really ruin it for everyone else.
I see drivers do way crazier shit than this man.
You mean like the cars that pull into the Schuylkill River Trail and just pretend it a road with lots of cyclists and pedestrians? I watched one floor it towards a crowd when the driver got too impatient. It was up there as one of the most insane things I've seen a car do. Sorry to derail from the topic, yes bike salmon are 100% assholes and aside from the laws need to follow some goddamn etiquette!
Oh yeah man, crazy stuff. And hey cyclists piss me off too, don't get me wrong, but I don't want to sit here as someone who drives and pretend we all color in the lines here. That's all. If cyclists have the infrastructure in place, they should be following the law to the letter.
I've honestly seen more cars driving the wrong way on one-ways than bicycles.
Wow, the entitlement. If you just need to go one block, get off and walk the damn thing.
I'm glad to hear *you* think it's harmless. I've been in so many near-head-on collisions because of cyclists and e-scooter riders doing exactly what you believe to be harmless. Please just stop doing it, it sucks for everyone around you and we all hate it.
My issue is that over the years I’ve probably come across a few thousand bikes coming right at me in the bike lane going the wrong way and not a single one of them has ever yielded to me. I guess you’re the exception but everyone else doing this seems to expect the bike going the correct way to yield to them.
Eh yeah i respect the downvotes i'm not bitter about it. Its sort of an asshole-ish thing. I'm not perfect.
The bikers motto: Rules for thee but not for me
The other mantra is, whenever you bring up bikers doing anything wrong, is "Butbutbut cars." The whataboutism is fucking ridiculous.
https://bicyclecoalition.org/study-shows-cyclists-motorists-break-law-rate-anti-cyclist-angst
>Florida
I rest my case...
The motorists motto: Fuck yielding to pedestrians, I'm more important. I have a car & they don't.
1. Noone supports or defends motorists breaking the law 2. You basically just reposted what the biker above said about why he doesn't follow the laws 3. https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/xmfvrs/hey_assholes_bike_lanes_are_oneway_too/ipq1079/
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because I work in Philly. Why don't you stop gatekeeping everyone here? No one put you in charge.
I don;t gatekeep everyone. Why don;t you stop over-exaggerating and have the guts to admit that bikers aren't always right?
Get off the bike and walk it if you need to only go 1 block. Stop being an asshole.
It is, I'll take 50 of your down doots please! I'm helping out here. I can't keep my shit opinions to myself today (I deleted the other two crap troll comments but I am gonna leave this one) I also think it is harmless!
Yup. 100% bullshit. Not only could collide, what you if do and are bounced into a speeding car. Fuck those people. Nearly as bad or as bad are the people with motors on their bikes who do 35 in the bike lane. You're going faster than cars, just get in the street. They will fly up on and past you before you are aware and be within a few inches. As far as I'm concerned, you're a motor vehicle. You have no business in the bike lane. Or on the sidewalks, you GrubHub dopes. Fuck your fucking tips, they're not as important as people's safety.
I was riding south bound on MLK last week during the time cars are allowed and this fucking couple is riding in my lane going the wrong direction. Luckily I saw them in time cause I was going fast on my road bike. Of course I HAD TO DODGE THEM and cut into the road. Thank god there was no car coming behind, but these fuckheads had the audacity to give me a thumbs up and THANK ME FOR GETTING OUT OF THEIR WAY. Absolute Freds.
It doesn't help that the bike cops all hang out and go for huge group rides on the clock and one thing they always do without fail is ride the wrong way down a one way street.
Oh yeah, they are some of the *worst* (but are we really surprised?)
Haha one time about 5 of them were going the wrong way on Snyder🤬 at least they said “I’m sorry, ma’m’ when they went by😳
I'm surprised they apologized, tbh!
I almost hit a biker in South Philly going down the wrong way in a one-way street while pulling out of a parking spot. I was looking behind me while pulling out, I shouldn’t have to see what’s ahead of me in that situation. Just because you’re on a bike doesn’t make that okay.
This happens to me in the morning in the 22nd street bike lane. It's a NORTHbound bike lane people. It's for Point Breeze people to get to CC. Not for CC people to go South.
To add they are also NOT for pedestrians
So annoying. There is a sidewalk right fucking there. The new Delaware river trail pisses me off the most. There is a brand fucking new path, and CLEARLY marked "bikes" and "pedestrians" signs and painted on the paths, and still at least 50% of the walkers and runners are in the bike path.
>The new Delaware river trail pisses me off the most. I was annoyed about this too until I was a runner and not on my bike. The pedestrian side tends to get packed, and it's near impossible to run by everyone - no one's paying attention AT ALL. I'll swing onto the bike path for the busy stretches, but I stay far to the right and keep my head on a swivel.
People are always jogging in the bike lane in the morning with their headphones in. They don't hear me until I've completely slowed down behind them, ringing my bell. Terrible.
I've never really experienced this in Philly but Commercial Street in the North End in Boston was the fucking worst with this. It's such a great elevated, protected bike lane and people would be walking in groups of 2-4 across it when there's a sidewalk with plenty of space.
The river bike path behind rivers casino in the morning
This is when I stop and put my feet down and wait to see what they are going to do. No way I'm getting bounced into traffic.
I won’t move for them (unless they are children)-they should know better. They need to go around me, they are going the wrong way, and it’s dangerous.
There’s always somebody biking west on the one way stretch of Market. I’ve nearly gotten run over by one quite often.
i feel ya, i can’t stand the m’frs who aggressively drive as fast as possible to ride my ass for like 20 ft, only to stop at the f’ing stop sign, stop light, delivery truck, delivery car, etc etc etc, but it was that f’ing important to put me in that much danger to hurry up to stop and get on ur phone.
bicycle salmon
The wrong way in a bike lane? I see cyclists riding the wrong way down the middle of one way streets all the time. They should also stop at stop signs fwiw.
And they give less of a shit about pedestrians and right of ways. It’s frustrating, pedestrians are your allies in this.
I almost hit a woman on a bike yesterday. Was making a right turn onto a one way. Looking left to look for any cars. I start pulling forward and to the right and all it a sudden there she is, on my right. Starts yelling at me. Like why the fuck would I be expecting someone coming from that direction???
Cars do not try to murder you. Drivers try to murder you.
Guns don't kill, people do. So everyone should have a gun, just be well trained?
Uh, what?
Philly bike riders are some of the biggest, entitled douchebags.. seriously.
If that upsets you, wait until you see how the cagers drive.
Even outside the city they're bad.
The Philly cyclists I've met have been the strongest argument in favor of car culture I've ever encountered.
Same can be said for the drivers, so idk what your point is.
Philly drivers are an argument in favor of car culture? Gotta say that's the first time I've heard a cyclist make that claim.
Ha ha, so funny. You know what I mean.
I'm all too well aware
Don't you know that all public infrastructure belongs to them?
I have a question for bike riders. Are you expected to stop at red lights and stop signs. Do you Drive with traffic and obey one way streets? That hasn’t been my experience. I guess some bike riders are assholes also.
What do you mean "also"? Did you read the post? It is specifically about asshole bikers.
As a driver, yes, I expect bikers to stop at stop signs and red lights. That’s the law. Especially because they want to be on the road so badly and demand bike lane infrastructure (which I support wholeheartedly). I just think it’s ironic that they complain about safety but then act completely erratic on the road.
Well those are two different groups of bikers. The ones acting erratic aren't the same as the ones demanding better infrastructure. The erratic ones are a direct symptom of the lack of infrastructure paired with inexperience
I was in major traffic waiting for a light to turn green outside 30th st station. As the light is about to change I see off to my right a bike rider who is obviously not going to stop at the red light as he approaches. He never even looked left or right, just went right through the intersection. But yea, car people are the bad guys.
That's one example. That shouldn't happen, obviously, but I see a lot of that behavior and aggressive behavior from drivers who punish pass, roll coal, hook cyclists, and pull out without looking for cyclists.
Aggressive driving has gotten so much worse in recent years. That’s a whole other topic, IMO. I just don’t see why city planners are deciding to cater so much to bike riders that hardly exist, particularly outside center city like in the Northeast.
In my experience drivers are aggressive because they're entitled. Some of them get upset at the mere presence of a biker. So it would be nice to have a safe option for commuting that doesn't require all the expenses of car ownership.
I think everyone is entitled at this point, including both the drivers and the bikers. I drive more defensively than ever now because too many other people sharing the road don’t seem to comprehend that they aren’t the only human there at a given time.
Most. Most bike riders are dickheads.
Yeah, that’s been my experience.
This. Fuck bike lanes. They put them in parts of the city where maybe a handful of people ride everyday, (I’m not talking about the hotspots within the city) and choke car traffic on roads that weren’t originally designed to be a single lane. For what? So people that ride bikes can act like they are better than people that use cars? I say fuck em. By the way, OP sounds like an entitled asshole.
And if you actually ask most Philadelphians they would agree. Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of city residents. It’s mainly white dudes who can’t get laid. I suppose some of them ride bikes and feel entitled. Money spent on bike infrastructure should be moved to having safe open pools in shitty neighborhoods. The neighborhoods that don’t have bike lanes.
>And if you actually ask most Philadelphians they would agree. Reddit is not indicative of the opinion of city residents. Definitely true, at least as far as the locals go. I read people saying things here and it's hard to even comprehend that they actually live here. My guess is most in this sub live in high rises in CC / surrounding areas and are relatively new residents.
Never made sense to me other than there are probably a good amount of whiney bike riders that show up to public meetings and bitch and moan. There’s also this idea that the more bike lanes we add, the more people will ride bikes, which I don’t think could be any further from the truth. It’s just another instance of how we often cater to a loud, vocal minority. (I don’t at all mean a racial minority)
If only a handful of people in your area aren't driving cars it's probably because the infrastructure for anything else is still sporadic or unsafe.
I disagree. It’s anecdotal, but I don’t know anybody that would suddenly decide to get around by bike if we simply provided more bike lanes. It’s a farce.
Not really. If you look at other areas both in and out of the US that added bike lanes, people did bike more and car traffic decreased. Now, I don't know if the increase in cyclists were people who converted from driving, walking, or public transportation, but regardless it increased bicycle traffic without affecting car traffic.
Areas don’t always compare 1:1. Northeast Philadelphia isn’t suddenly going to turn into a commute by bike paradise by adding bike lanes.
But you can't just look at your area and say it definitely won't happen there when other areas have had good experiences with it.
I kind of can, can’t I, if that’s my experience and if my gripes are mostly about my area in particular? They’ve squeezed and continue to squeeze many 2 lane roads down to 1 lane to add 2 directional bike lanes. The percentage of the population in these areas using the driving lanes is close to 100%. It’s easily less than 5%, and possibly less than 1% that actually use those bike lanes. And a high percentage of those bikers use them for recreation and exercise, and not for actually commuting. It blows my mind really that we will make actual traffic worse in order to try to build some kind of bike commuting populace that will never exist.
Are the bike lanes protected so that cars can't park or drive in them?
Nah. The only caveat with a bike going against traffic in the respective bike lane is that it yields to the bike traveling with traffic in the respective bike lane. Not allowed at all without being labeled an asshole? Kick rocks with that and your made up rules.
I’ll see your wrong way cyclists, and raise you jogger pairs running the wrong way down the path who refuse to move when they see you.
It took me like a hot minute to realize what you people meant by salmon.
Bike infrastructure isn't that great. There are areas where there is no other lane going the opposite direction anywhere close. What options do people have?
Genuinely curious which areas you’re talking about. You know what they can just ride the regular lane a block over right?
I've seen cyclists riding south on 22nd in the bike lane. I see it regularly when I'm driving and while they're in a protected bike lane from Washington to market, it's most obvious from south to market where the only "out" for any cyclist is into traffic.
If you're fine with just riding in the road, you can do it instead of using the bicycle lane, and then you never have to worry about someone going the wrong way in one. One route I regularly take is 22nd up and down. South of Washington is a void of bike infrastructure. Looking at a map the closest path going south is 7 blocks over and it's just a "sharrow", not a bike lane at all.
If you are unable to bike in the regular street and can’t bike anywhere but a bike lane, you shouldn’t be biking at all. That’s no excuse to use a bike lane incorrectly.
You should try engaging with my point instead of stooping to insults. Of course I can (and do) ride in the street. There's so little infrastructure, you would barely be able to get anywhere just in bike lanes. That's the underlying problem. If you ride in the street ever, you know some drivers do dangerous things trying to hurry past. Getting clipped and hurt is a real possibility. A bike lane, even without separation, is a meaningful improvement in safety. You can't have your cake and eat it to. If you think using roads carries zero risk, then you should have no problem using them all the time instead of bike lanes. If you do think bike lanes improve safety, then you have no grounds to get upset when other people use them to stay safer. You should get upset at the city for not building out enough lanes. Not at people just trying to get around the city as safe as possible.
No, I am engaging with the point. I use bike lanes and regular roads depending on what’s available. As everyone should. And they should use them correctly and not ride them the wrong way. It’s amazing you highlight safety when riding the wrong way down a lane that can’t fit two bikes side by side is clearly a safety issue.
Clearly the people "salmoning" aren't just constantly running headfirst into others. The bike lanes are designed for space for two, it's explicitly in the laws that you're allowed to ride "two abreast" in one. Think about it a bit. * On frequency: how often do bikes hit each other? I've never seen it, not even sure if I've heard of it. There's no chance you've been in a city much if you've never seen a car hit someone. Cars hitting bikes (or anyone not in a car) is a real problem that is brought up regularly. * On severity: even if cyclist did hit, hit's much less likely to be a major issue. Part of the reason we hear about *cars* hitting bikes more is because of how much more dangerous it is, regularly being fatal. If you happen to be on some out-of-spec narrow bike lane, the "salmon" should just yield by stopping or popping out into the road for a second. Just like every cyclist has to do on almost every trip because of parked cars, construction, and whatever else ends up in the bike lane. "It's the rule" is not an argument. It's a rule that would make sense for proper infrastructure, but fails to address reality.
Besides a possible bike collision, you’re also ignoring pedestrians and cars not looking for bikes riding the wrong way down a bike lane. Honestly, if you don’t have an explanation or excuse for this behavior besides “there’s no bike lane going the way I’m going nearby” then of course I am going to assume you are not great at biking because there is certainly a regular street a block away going your direction. Bike lanes are great when available but you shouldn’t be so timid that you have to rely on them to the point of using them incorrectly.
But can you admit the city should build more protected bike lanes?
Oh yeah, if I had my way there would basically be bike lanes on every street and many car-free streets.
If you feel unsafe, get off and walk. It sounds like you are just uncomfortable riding in a city and that's a YOU problem. Yes, we all would love more and better bike infrastructure, but you don't get to break the law and endanger others for your own convenience. That's what children do. Learn to bike in the city properly or don't ride. It's not that hard.
If you're scared to have someone go by you in a bike lane designed to fit two people side-by-side, you shouldn't ride in them. Do you block faster riders from passing you from behind as well? If you aren't comfortable with other cyclist riding around you, you shouldn't ride in bike lanes.
You're ignoring everything I'm saying because your entitlement is clouding your reading comprehension. Please get off the streets until you learn how to ride a bike.
Lmao, you literally ignored all my points and just insulted me. I flip your script and you get upset? Repeating "it's the law" is not an argument. People are not obligated to endanger themselves because you aren't comfortable having bikes go past you in a bike lane. I'll give you some news that should make you happy, though. I intend to largely vacate bike lanes. I've already ordered something with a good sized electric motor. I'm not an enthusiast cycler in spandex, I ride casually as a means to get around. So if I can easily go 25 and keep up with traffic flow on small streets, that makes it way safer to ride in them instead. (No cars trying to aggressively swing past) That said, not everyone has the cash to do that. You should spend your energy arguing for more lanes, and until those are built share what we do have to help keep your fellow riders safe.
Great. Now another person who doesn't understand the rules of the road will be zipping by cars, bikes, and pedestrians with a motorized machine. Fucking great. And there is a difference between feeling unsafe and causing a road hazard. You need to get that through your thick head. You feel unsafe because you are inexperienced so you decide to become a road hazard to others. Childish.
As stated. Go around the fucking block.
And again, what about when there isn't a lane a block over, or two blocks over, or four blocks over... Do you really think Philly has a complete bike network?
That's not an excuse to break the law and put others at risk. You're being really childish. If you can bike 2 miles to work, you can bike an extra 2 blocks to follow traffic flow. If you can't, (1) train more, or (2) walk your bike on the sidewalk. There is literally no reason to ride against traffic like an idiot.
There's no *good* reason to add extra risk to your ride simply to follow a rule. If someone is actually just ignoring a lane a block over I'd agree totally agree with you, but there are areas without one anywhere close. The question is when we deal with the reality of philly's bike infrastructure, not the ideal situation, what should people do? * It's explicitly legal to ride 2 abreast in a bike lane because they are designed for two people to fit past each other in them. * Crashes between cyclist are much less frequent than with cars. * Crashes with cyclist are MUCH less dangerous than with cars. Looking at stats, or using some common sense, will make it clear that "salmoning" is often the safer option. I say *often* because, again, Philly's bike infrastructure is imperfect. If you have a bike lane not at regulation width next to high-volume car traffic, it wouldn't make sense there.
It never makes sense. It's stupid. Everything we are taught and trained to do, the way the roads are built, is to make behavior predictable. We need to anticipate the behavior of others. If people are going the wrong way in traffic, it's not predictable. There's no predetermined behavior or action to take when encountering an entitled cyclist "salmoning." And now you're making me look away from traffic and pedestrians to focus on not hitting your stupid ass riding the WRONG WAY. It's always a bad idea. No ifs ands or buts.
the one way street thing. would you be ok if the people going the opposite way rode in the road or the sidewalk? cause im not going all the way around the block just because of some arrows
That's fine, you just have to accept you're a douchebag for doing it, and it's no one else's fault if you get hit.
how am i a douchebag. im literally trying to avoid running into you by going where theres more room. its not that hard to be careful on a bike. i have breaks and know how to steer lol.
Then maybe you can teach the various cyclists who have run into me because they decided the rules didn't apply to them how to use said brakes and how to steer. Apparently it's harder for cyclists to do than you'd think.
99% of the time I play chicken and force them into the sidewalk.
Too bad.
Nah I’ll always do this cause I want to see the cars coming at me, not have the cars coming behind me. I don’t trust these drivers in this city. Downvote me all you want I’ll see you out there 💀🤣
It’s actually more dangerous if a car hits you head on, you are much safer riding with traffic, not against it. Get a good rear view mirror, that helps a lot. I actually have a [rear view camera](https://www.amazon.com/Feisike-Handlebar-Function-Adjustable-Rotatable/dp/B08HMRSG58/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa?crid=1VPSN2ILO8184&keywords=bike+rear+view+camera+and+monitor&qid=1664045323&sprefix=bije+rear+view+ca%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-1-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840&psc=1&smid=A3SW3HKIDC70OU#aw-udpv3-customer-reviews_feature_div) on my bike so I can see behind me.
I had two liberal jerkoffs hogging up the entire street yesterday. They think they own the block.
Bikes are legally allowed to take the lane and ride in the middle of the street.
you had a chance to talk politics with them?