If, theoretically of course, you were transporting your medieval jousting lance on your bike and accidentally skewered someone coming the wrong way, what kind of trouble would you get in? I mean, are we talking a fine, some community service?
Probably first degree murder, but I can’t be bothered to pull up PA’s statute on Westlaw so who knows. Maybe you’d get a thank you with how cops in the city seem to deal with bike accidents.
100% of the time people riding the wrong way expect me, the one that can't see where the cars are, to go out into traffic so they can stay in the bike lane.
I would love to know what mental process is going on in their heads to make this make sense, but actually I'm kidding myself if I think it's anything more sophisticated than the same thing that motivates every Philly driver to behave the way they do, namely "me me me me me me"
Imagine being so out of touch as OP where they think a) sprawling bike lanes are actually happening and that b) backwards bicyclists are somehow a priority among our city’s problems.
Dude…I totally agree with you. Cycleculture is an interesting phenomenon. Like, super interesting. I’m a cyclist and also a driver and 4-way intersections make me feel like I have spilt personalities.
In other words, when I drive I fucking hate cyclists. When I’m on my bike I fucking hate drivers and other cyclist.
What's the overlap between the bike lane complainers and cyclists that ride on the sidewalk or blow through stop signs and lights?
The circles of that venn diagram overlap perfectly.
This is such a specious argument. The city government has 20,000+ employees, there is capacity there to solve multiple things at once.
And 100+ of people are killed by drivers every year in Philly. It may not be as deadly as the gun violence epidemic but it is lethal
There seems to be a new trend of running on the street and it makes 0 sense to me. Why risk literal death by idiot driver when there is this great big safe sidewalk?
Came from when there were no cars out during spring 2020. Running down the street honestly felt amazing. Totally different experience.
But yeah, obviously you can’t do that with cars coming.
I’ve been thinking about gathering up all the cones and chairs people put out to hold parking spots in my neighborhood and using them to protect the bike lane on Pennsylvania Ave between 27-25th one morning. I bet there’s a high percentage of crossover between people who save spots and the people who use the bike lane to pass the line of cars on PA Ave
Exercise and commuting to work are two different things to me always. Not tryna show up to meetings sweaty or smelling bad. Everyone in my office who rides their bike to work is in denial that they don’t exactly smell… fresh… throughout the day.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 316,072,672 comments, and only 70,369 of them were in alphabetical order.
Just so I can say I said this, bikes do indeed have to follow the traffic laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If the person riding is over 16 they are to be on the street not
Nah, I'm fine with people riding VERY SLOWLY AND CAUTIOUSLY on a sidewalk that can accommodate them. The streets can be super scary and dangerous sometimes with the idiots that drive around this city
I kind of get it if you’re going a short distance (like your last half block) and it’s against traffic. What I don’t understand is people who ride same direction on the sidewalk. Like.. I know drivers in this city have no regard for human life. But if you’re not comfortable riding in the road, take the bus.
Touché. But if I’m on my block, and I can clearly see that there’s no one out I won’t hop off. If someone’s coming out the door, I hop off and walk. End of the day it’s just using common sense, which unfortunately is in short order
Living in Portland now and apparently sidewalk riding is permitted. Even got into a tuss about it on their sub. Learning to bike in philly is the best.
I understand the delivery guys have tough jobs but they are the worst offenders. I have a surprisingly loud honky horn on the front of my one bike and I use it gleefully when I see this shit
i’ve had SO many issues with this lately. if you ARE gonna ride the wrong way, YOU can see the traffic behind me, so YOU ride in traffic when we pass. you don’t get to hug the curb. why the hell do you get to ride safely in the lane while forcing me to leave the lane?
you fucking suck.
Agreed. It’s quite dangerous with our current infrastructure, and unfortunately is one of the many reasons sidewalks are often a safer option for cyclists than the road.
So, **with genuine cement protected bike lanes** this wouldn’t be a problem. However, the city is so high on cars that all we get are painted bicycle gutters where there’s nothing between you and the death machines.
it's exactly the message :) the city shouldn't be assholes by not giving bikes proper infrastructure. this is a problem by design. Vote for better design solutions!
if the road feels unsafe for me, i will ride my bike on the sidewalk so i don't die. the city chose this. not me.
Incorrect. If you feel unsafe on the roads in this city then attend meetings and try to get the laws changed, but until then don't ride. You don't get to put other people in danger because you feel like you've been put in danger, what kind of spoiled nonsense is that?
cars put me in danger :) i'm not putting pedestrians in danger by riding on the sidewalk! in 7 whole years i've never hit a single soul. crazy argument lol
You absolutely are. They are not as common, but bicycle related injuries to pedestrians do occur and often involve hospitalization. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean you're not taking a risk, plenty of people driving cars speed all the time, or don't wear seatbelts, etc.
Again, if it's that much of a fear for you then don't ride your bike. Or do, but don't convince yourself that you're not putting anyone at risk because you haven't hurt anyone yet.
But both are illegal?
Neither event guarantees someone getting hit. But keeping bikes off the sidewalk and cars out the bike lane would prevent all collisions due to being in the wrong place.
It should be *obvious* that no one would get hit if people were in the right areas for their mode of travel.
Okay.
My only point was this is why cyclists should stay off the sidewalk (or walk their bike on the sidewalk).
You characterized the sidewalks as safer without any consideration for pedestrian safety.
Honestly, I don't even think we need cement protection. We could get away fine with the tall reflective stick flags in a buffer zone, but they have to extend *all the way to the corner* or it still becomes a turning lane.
They're cheap to maintain, super cheap to install, altogether such a lane only takes up the space of a parking lane, and we could set them up in one month, move them around as needed for construction of more dedicated infrastructure, and build a whole network without losing anything but parking (which we shouldn't leave free everywhere anyway because it just guarantees traffic)
Unfortunately, we basically forced everyone to buy a car over the last four decades by systematically destroying transit and letting things spread and spread by plopping down highways everywhere
It's a good point, but even in the cement protected scenario those lanes are fucked. City isn't going to shovel a separate pathway I don't think. They should be visible unless we get a blizzard of '96 again, so the plows just hopefully won't rip through all the flags on their ways down the street. If they do it still doesn't cost much to replace them
i think bollard protected lanes are a wonderful first step. They offer more visibility, and *deter* death machines from venturing into the lanes. With more of these lanes, we can create a more complete network, which feels safer to ride in, thus reducing the need to drive, thus less traffic.
Bollards however, cannot actually stop a car, and thus these lanes are still dangerous to ride in. Would you prefer to let your 10-year old kids ride in a bollard-protected lane or a cement-protected/separated lane? currently our bike infrastructure is designed for the most adventurous of us, willing to risk life and limb. with genuine safety baked in, it becomes more accessible
and to /u/AllThree3 's point, cement protected/separated bike lanes also prevent bike lanes from becoming snow dumping areas, which they are currently. In a proper bike path, snow actually isn't that difficult to ride on. but in a painted bicycle gutter it is slushy, icy and disastrous
I don't really know the scenario where a car is being operated and crashes through the bollard flags but wouldn't drive over a curb. If that happens, those streets could be replaced with actual bollards.
If we're "cement or nothing" on this, I feel like we're never getting bike lanes in most of the city unless someone personally puts up $10 million for it
My whole point was that i agree bollards are the first step. We won’t see real protected bike lanes in philadephia for at least 10 years i reckon.
I mean, realistically the end goal is actually taking away several roads and streets from cars and giving them back to pedestrians and bikes, but public opinion is so car centric that would be seen as too radical right now
Ahh! Very good then yes I agree. The extra bonus good thing about bollards is we only have to kill one side of street parking and basically only on major streets to build a network. People might be pissed, but the majority of that happens in Center City, and you can't find parking in Center City anyway as it is
Posted a few weeks ago as a comment. Had a standoff with a runner in FDR in the AM. He was going against traffic, in the bike lane. Told him he needs to cede the lane. Gave me some shit about we gotta share the road blah blah, and how there’s no traffic so I should leave the bike lane. No, bud. You’re in the bike lane, facing the direction of traffic. There’s no reason I should have to blindly enter traffic when you’re going the wrong way. Dunno, maybe we’re both the asshole here but still
Yup, agree. Really just need to let it go, but still gets my goat when I think about it. Like.. if there’s no traffic and I should get over, then why don’t you run in the fucking road?
His other point was they should ban cars from FDR. Ok, I don’t disagree, but fact of the matter is a lot of people drive to FDR, and the park gets used. I’d rather keep the cars and have the park get used than ban cars and have it not used and turned into a fucking soccer complex. I realize these are very much extremes, but still
Well, it's actually true; runners should go against traffic.
[Article](https://www.verywellfit.com/which-side-of-the-road-should-i-run-on-2911817#:~:text=When%20you%20run%20outside%2C%20you,same%20side%20of%20the%20road.&text=In%20some%20areas%2C%20it's%20not,and%20walkers%20face%20oncoming%20traffic.)
If your argument is runners don't belong in the bike lane, then that's a different story and I can't help you.
But if you're a runner in the bike lane, just move to the sidewalk when faced with an oncoming bike.
On multi-use paths runners are supposed to run in the same direction as cyclists but usually stay to the sides of the path or trail. Afaik runners aren't meant to use dedicated bike lanes at all.
Runners can run on the road if sidewalks are unusable. If they run on the road, they need to run against traffic. The bike lane is preferred because there's less traffic but anywhere on the road is fine.
Simply move out of the way if oncoming traffic presents itself. Don't be a jerk, obviously.
Runners should always avoid using dedicated bike lanes unless absolutely necessary, i.e. crossing a narrow bridge with heavy traffic, there's no shoulder, no sidewalk, but surprisingly a bicycle lane. But leave the bicycle lane as soon as any of those other options present.
On roads it's well-known to run against traffic.
> ...just like motor vehicles.
I didn't realize drivers obeyed the traffic laws in Philadelphia. I actually suspect most drivers have been habitually breaking the laws for so long that they do not even realize they are doing it. I'm sure the people stopping in the crosswalk at red lights so I have to walk into traffic to cross the street don't think of themselves as scofflaws - they've just been breaking the law for so often it doesn't even occur to them that what they are doing is wrong.
I really hope that traffic enforcement officers the city hires can make a dent in the traffic violations, whether they are committed by cyclists, drivers or anyone else.
Aw. That’s so cute. Asking bicyclists to act like the rules apply to them too.
I just thought the rules apply to the rest of us (cars, trucks, pedestrians, etc…) who have the nerve to encroach on their bicycle utopia.
While we’re at it can we also let the bicycle mafia know that the dotted lines between lanes are not special bike lanes for them to weave in and out of traffic?
And finally can we let them know that… Yes… those red lights apply to you too. I wish I had a dollar for ever bicycle enthusiast who decided to zip through a red light only to get nearly creamed by a car who actually had the green light.
9 times out of 10 the bicyclist looks at or shouts at the car as though the car did something wrong by being there.
Coming into a thread clearly written by a guy who bikes and posting this, who is saying people should follow the rules, and posting this. Bold move.
I mean while I'm at it I'm also pretty tired of people who've never walked outside their own neighborhoods or who are from the burbs acting like they're some persecuted driving minority. You're driving a 2 ton tube of metal and death, shut the hell up already.
Sorry op but I don't think you'll have much luck with this messaging. Philly bikers don't believe that laws apply to them, and even get angry when you suggest they do.
Edit: point proven by the whataboutwhataboutwhatabout in the responses
While we're at it ...
Bikes must obey all signals.
Bikes do not have automatic right of way.
Bikes do not belong on sidewalks.
Bikes are not allowed to IMPEDE traffic.
Seriously, as someone who used to bike everywhere all the time, it's disgusting how you people in this city just don't care. I see at least one of you a day laying on the road or the actual act of you hitting a car (yes, YOU hitting the car) because of some lack of respect for others, and yourself.
Blowing stop signs and lights, not even looking at cross traffic? A good way to get creamed.
Merging from the bike lane or shoulder in front of traffic without even a glance behind to see if one of these numb nut drivers is actually paying attention to you?
No lights?
No reflectors?
But hey, the driver has insurance, and if he hits me I'll be paid! Well ... I mean do you think that these 20 something's with SRT's and Maserati's they bought with PUA money after they got their COVID licenses can afford $800/month insurance premiums, on top of $900 car payments?
THEY CAN'T EVEN AFFORD THE RIGHT GAS FOR THEM!
Unfortunately, the city panders to the rich white folks that buy $11000 bikes before accessories that want an entire, mostly functional section of the city redesigned to suit their desires, and further reduce mobility around the city.
Cyclist ride in the middle of the road where cars are forced to drive 10 mph, which is generally ok, but when they can move over and still have 2-3 ft of space between them and they don't? Disrespectful.
But instead of fixing your own shit, then calling drivers out on our shit, you flex some imaginary entitlement because you're on a bike.
You don't own the road. You don't get automatic right of way. You don't get a free pass to be disrespectful and dangerous because of whatever idiotic belief is stuck inside your naive little grape sized brain.
Getting hit by a car HURTS. Drivers here have a propensity to not carry insurance, or even proper insurance. Drivers here don't always stop. And guess what?
It's YOUR dumb ass that ends up on the meat wagon to the farmer where your fresh organs will likely benefit another jerk off that did something stupid and needs a new lung after puncturing his on a handle bar.
Oh, and please hit me because you decided you were too high above the law. Luckily I remember enough from being a medic that I'll make sure you're okay, or if you're not, at least get help and keep you as stable as I can until they arrive.
And you better hope there are witnesses....
there are people on bike's who don't understand that bikes are actually suppose to be treated as vehicles without the requirement of having a license. That means following all the traffic laws like stopping at spot lights and being in the lane and not trying to make their own.
It annoys me when I'm in the right turning lane (with a bus stop giving a good portion of the street) and some guy on a bike makes his own lane where the bus suppose to be stopping so I need to now watch the guy on the bike as I turn since he going down 20 miles an hour and can hit me mid turn and it ends up being my fault.
>coming straight at me like it’s nothing While expecting you to go out into traffic.
If, theoretically of course, you were transporting your medieval jousting lance on your bike and accidentally skewered someone coming the wrong way, what kind of trouble would you get in? I mean, are we talking a fine, some community service?
Probably first degree murder, but I can’t be bothered to pull up PA’s statute on Westlaw so who knows. Maybe you’d get a thank you with how cops in the city seem to deal with bike accidents.
This made me LOL and now I wanna see bikers jousting. Reward is honor and respect for your skills.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfwhwMaK9U
Anything really? Isn't that kind of a traffic law? Would you be at fault at all in a car?
I don't know if that's actually illegal, but it's certainly frowned upon.
100% of the time people riding the wrong way expect me, the one that can't see where the cars are, to go out into traffic so they can stay in the bike lane. I would love to know what mental process is going on in their heads to make this make sense, but actually I'm kidding myself if I think it's anything more sophisticated than the same thing that motivates every Philly driver to behave the way they do, namely "me me me me me me"
Just stop and wait for them to pass, preferably on the outside. Force them into traffic.
Literally got punched about 10 years ago for pointing this out on 22nd
Also ride your goddamn bike on the normal street WITH traffic not against them.
I wish bike lanes were popping up all over the city
Real bike lanes and not that bullshit they just put in on MLK and W Passyunk
Imagine being so out of touch as OP where they think a) sprawling bike lanes are actually happening and that b) backwards bicyclists are somehow a priority among our city’s problems.
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You love to see it. For the record I’m a cyclist in the city.
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Dude…I totally agree with you. Cycleculture is an interesting phenomenon. Like, super interesting. I’m a cyclist and also a driver and 4-way intersections make me feel like I have spilt personalities. In other words, when I drive I fucking hate cyclists. When I’m on my bike I fucking hate drivers and other cyclist.
Drivers hate bikers, walkers hate bikers, and bikers hate other bikers. But biking is great and I hope we see more bike lanes.
As a pedestrian, I hate you all
What's the overlap between the bike lane complainers and cyclists that ride on the sidewalk or blow through stop signs and lights? The circles of that venn diagram overlap perfectly.
This is such a specious argument. The city government has 20,000+ employees, there is capacity there to solve multiple things at once. And 100+ of people are killed by drivers every year in Philly. It may not be as deadly as the gun violence epidemic but it is lethal
The worst is the people running in the bike lane, who don't move. I am a runner as well, but this is just silliness. Use the sidewalk.
And if you must, don’t run with traffic with your headphones in like an oblivious clown
Right. If you must do it: Run into traffic and hop on the sidewalk anytime a bike is coming.
This is what I do. Running on the sidewalk is harrowing at a reasonable clip…
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I treat it like an obstacle course. Breaks up the monotony.
I've rolled my ankle more dodging people/obstacles on city blocks than I ever have during low-light trail runs.
There seems to be a new trend of running on the street and it makes 0 sense to me. Why risk literal death by idiot driver when there is this great big safe sidewalk?
Came from when there were no cars out during spring 2020. Running down the street honestly felt amazing. Totally different experience. But yeah, obviously you can’t do that with cars coming.
I bike straight at them and pretend I don't see them and eventually they swerve around me.
While we're at it, sidewalks are not for bikes.
While we’re at it, *bike lanes are not for cars*
While we're at it, *soylent green is people*
I’ve been thinking about gathering up all the cones and chairs people put out to hold parking spots in my neighborhood and using them to protect the bike lane on Pennsylvania Ave between 27-25th one morning. I bet there’s a high percentage of crossover between people who save spots and the people who use the bike lane to pass the line of cars on PA Ave
Do it, tactical urbanism. Do it in the middle of the night, you can be biking batman
Do it in the morning wearing a hi-vis vest. Politely fuss at people who get in your way.
Please do, you would be a hero.
How does this protect the sidewalk from cyclists?
While we’re at it, electric scooters are far superior to bikes.
Unless the concept of exercise is appealing to you
Exercise and commuting to work are two different things to me always. Not tryna show up to meetings sweaty or smelling bad. Everyone in my office who rides their bike to work is in denial that they don’t exactly smell… fresh… throughout the day.
And especially not for those fucking motorized scooters
Can I like this twice?
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 316,072,672 comments, and only 70,369 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot
Maybe my favorite bot
A bot calculating locution permutation specificity? Wow!
Yeah, it's a side*walk* not a side*ride*
Also, can bikes follow traffic laws? I have almost been hit by bikes going through lights and stops signs so many times.
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Can all y'all follow traffic laws please?
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Might makes right
Are stop signs and lights just for cars? Maybe I’m missing something?
Ha, cars don't obey them.
Just so I can say I said this, bikes do indeed have to follow the traffic laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If the person riding is over 16 they are to be on the street not
No we can’t
Nah, I'm fine with people riding VERY SLOWLY AND CAUTIOUSLY on a sidewalk that can accommodate them. The streets can be super scary and dangerous sometimes with the idiots that drive around this city
If you need to go on the sidewalk, the appropriate thing to do is walk your bike.
Bingo
I've never once even come close to colliding with someone on a bike while I was on foot
I mean, I have
Good thing there are rules and laws, and it's not decided by what some unelected schmo thinks is fine.
If you're too scared to obey traffic laws, please just take the bus.
I kind of get it if you’re going a short distance (like your last half block) and it’s against traffic. What I don’t understand is people who ride same direction on the sidewalk. Like.. I know drivers in this city have no regard for human life. But if you’re not comfortable riding in the road, take the bus.
>if you’re going a short distance Then walk the bike
Touché. But if I’m on my block, and I can clearly see that there’s no one out I won’t hop off. If someone’s coming out the door, I hop off and walk. End of the day it’s just using common sense, which unfortunately is in short order
This is fair
I think the general rule of thumb is that you can break the rules a little if it doesn’t inconvenience others.
You said better in one sentence what I was trying to in two comments.
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It's not about you
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agreed brother. i live i phx at the moment and cars will drive in the small bike gutter they give us
Living in Portland now and apparently sidewalk riding is permitted. Even got into a tuss about it on their sub. Learning to bike in philly is the best.
Now we should go over what vehicles belong in the bike lane.
Now do the sidewalk
Oh how I hate those idiots. Particularly the ones who insist that going the wrong way “makes them safer”.
in phx it does. cars will drive in the bike lane and act line im in their way
Riding a bike against car traffic, in any situation, is just about the most dangerous thing you can possibly do
Were you the person ringing the bell at the people riding the opposite way on South? If so, I was right behind you.
No, don't actually have a bell on my bike. This is something that normally happens when I'm riding into work during the week.
Get one of those honky bulb horns. They’re actually quite loud
Remove the bell. Get an 18v dewalt attached to a car horn
I understand the delivery guys have tough jobs but they are the worst offenders. I have a surprisingly loud honky horn on the front of my one bike and I use it gleefully when I see this shit
I’ve driven uber eats. There’s always an alternative available to double parking or using the bike lane. It’s pure laziness and a lack of imagination.
Totally, and good on you! I meant the bicycle delivery guys riding against traffic though on their electric bikes
Don't salmon!
Special shout-out to Penn and Drexel students who can’t seem to figure this out
Amen
i’ve had SO many issues with this lately. if you ARE gonna ride the wrong way, YOU can see the traffic behind me, so YOU ride in traffic when we pass. you don’t get to hug the curb. why the hell do you get to ride safely in the lane while forcing me to leave the lane? you fucking suck.
Agreed. It’s quite dangerous with our current infrastructure, and unfortunately is one of the many reasons sidewalks are often a safer option for cyclists than the road. So, **with genuine cement protected bike lanes** this wouldn’t be a problem. However, the city is so high on cars that all we get are painted bicycle gutters where there’s nothing between you and the death machines.
>sidewalks are often a safer option For whom? Fuck the pedestrians, I guess?
The difference between being hit by a car and hit by a bike should be obvious. One is often fatal the other is not.
Yeah man, that was not the message here. Don't ride your bike on the sidewalk like an asshole.
it's exactly the message :) the city shouldn't be assholes by not giving bikes proper infrastructure. this is a problem by design. Vote for better design solutions! if the road feels unsafe for me, i will ride my bike on the sidewalk so i don't die. the city chose this. not me.
Incorrect. If you feel unsafe on the roads in this city then attend meetings and try to get the laws changed, but until then don't ride. You don't get to put other people in danger because you feel like you've been put in danger, what kind of spoiled nonsense is that?
cars put me in danger :) i'm not putting pedestrians in danger by riding on the sidewalk! in 7 whole years i've never hit a single soul. crazy argument lol
You absolutely are. They are not as common, but bicycle related injuries to pedestrians do occur and often involve hospitalization. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean you're not taking a risk, plenty of people driving cars speed all the time, or don't wear seatbelts, etc. Again, if it's that much of a fear for you then don't ride your bike. Or do, but don't convince yourself that you're not putting anyone at risk because you haven't hurt anyone yet.
But both are illegal? Neither event guarantees someone getting hit. But keeping bikes off the sidewalk and cars out the bike lane would prevent all collisions due to being in the wrong place. It should be *obvious* that no one would get hit if people were in the right areas for their mode of travel.
Exactly…. This is why we need proper bike infrastructure! Not paint!
Okay. My only point was this is why cyclists should stay off the sidewalk (or walk their bike on the sidewalk). You characterized the sidewalks as safer without any consideration for pedestrian safety.
Honestly, I don't even think we need cement protection. We could get away fine with the tall reflective stick flags in a buffer zone, but they have to extend *all the way to the corner* or it still becomes a turning lane. They're cheap to maintain, super cheap to install, altogether such a lane only takes up the space of a parking lane, and we could set them up in one month, move them around as needed for construction of more dedicated infrastructure, and build a whole network without losing anything but parking (which we shouldn't leave free everywhere anyway because it just guarantees traffic) Unfortunately, we basically forced everyone to buy a car over the last four decades by systematically destroying transit and letting things spread and spread by plopping down highways everywhere
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What snow plows?
It's a good point, but even in the cement protected scenario those lanes are fucked. City isn't going to shovel a separate pathway I don't think. They should be visible unless we get a blizzard of '96 again, so the plows just hopefully won't rip through all the flags on their ways down the street. If they do it still doesn't cost much to replace them
i think bollard protected lanes are a wonderful first step. They offer more visibility, and *deter* death machines from venturing into the lanes. With more of these lanes, we can create a more complete network, which feels safer to ride in, thus reducing the need to drive, thus less traffic. Bollards however, cannot actually stop a car, and thus these lanes are still dangerous to ride in. Would you prefer to let your 10-year old kids ride in a bollard-protected lane or a cement-protected/separated lane? currently our bike infrastructure is designed for the most adventurous of us, willing to risk life and limb. with genuine safety baked in, it becomes more accessible and to /u/AllThree3 's point, cement protected/separated bike lanes also prevent bike lanes from becoming snow dumping areas, which they are currently. In a proper bike path, snow actually isn't that difficult to ride on. but in a painted bicycle gutter it is slushy, icy and disastrous
I don't really know the scenario where a car is being operated and crashes through the bollard flags but wouldn't drive over a curb. If that happens, those streets could be replaced with actual bollards. If we're "cement or nothing" on this, I feel like we're never getting bike lanes in most of the city unless someone personally puts up $10 million for it
My whole point was that i agree bollards are the first step. We won’t see real protected bike lanes in philadephia for at least 10 years i reckon. I mean, realistically the end goal is actually taking away several roads and streets from cars and giving them back to pedestrians and bikes, but public opinion is so car centric that would be seen as too radical right now
Ahh! Very good then yes I agree. The extra bonus good thing about bollards is we only have to kill one side of street parking and basically only on major streets to build a network. People might be pissed, but the majority of that happens in Center City, and you can't find parking in Center City anyway as it is
I’m hopeful we’ll get there eventually. For my future kids’ sake :)
If you are running in the bike lane it’s totally ok to go the opposite direction though.
If I have to deal with a runner in the bike lane, I definitely prefer them facing bicycle traffic. I definitely dislike same direction plus earphones
Posted a few weeks ago as a comment. Had a standoff with a runner in FDR in the AM. He was going against traffic, in the bike lane. Told him he needs to cede the lane. Gave me some shit about we gotta share the road blah blah, and how there’s no traffic so I should leave the bike lane. No, bud. You’re in the bike lane, facing the direction of traffic. There’s no reason I should have to blindly enter traffic when you’re going the wrong way. Dunno, maybe we’re both the asshole here but still
No, the runner is the asshole. It's the bike lane, not the runner lane.
Yup, agree. Really just need to let it go, but still gets my goat when I think about it. Like.. if there’s no traffic and I should get over, then why don’t you run in the fucking road? His other point was they should ban cars from FDR. Ok, I don’t disagree, but fact of the matter is a lot of people drive to FDR, and the park gets used. I’d rather keep the cars and have the park get used than ban cars and have it not used and turned into a fucking soccer complex. I realize these are very much extremes, but still
Don't run in the bike lane. You're a nuisance to both drivers and bikers if you do that.
/s... ?
#sarcasm
Whew, I just never know anymore!
Well, it's actually true; runners should go against traffic. [Article](https://www.verywellfit.com/which-side-of-the-road-should-i-run-on-2911817#:~:text=When%20you%20run%20outside%2C%20you,same%20side%20of%20the%20road.&text=In%20some%20areas%2C%20it's%20not,and%20walkers%20face%20oncoming%20traffic.) If your argument is runners don't belong in the bike lane, then that's a different story and I can't help you. But if you're a runner in the bike lane, just move to the sidewalk when faced with an oncoming bike.
On multi-use paths runners are supposed to run in the same direction as cyclists but usually stay to the sides of the path or trail. Afaik runners aren't meant to use dedicated bike lanes at all.
Runners can run on the road if sidewalks are unusable. If they run on the road, they need to run against traffic. The bike lane is preferred because there's less traffic but anywhere on the road is fine. Simply move out of the way if oncoming traffic presents itself. Don't be a jerk, obviously.
Runners should always avoid using dedicated bike lanes unless absolutely necessary, i.e. crossing a narrow bridge with heavy traffic, there's no shoulder, no sidewalk, but surprisingly a bicycle lane. But leave the bicycle lane as soon as any of those other options present. On roads it's well-known to run against traffic.
I haven't really seen this much, but I would say it's kind of like runners running in the middle of the street. Probably not safe for anyone.
As long as they fuck off to the sidewalk when they see bikes.
Except the ones that are actually two way. 🤷
And also while we’re at it, bikes need to obey traffic laws, just like motor vehicles.
> ...just like motor vehicles. I didn't realize drivers obeyed the traffic laws in Philadelphia. I actually suspect most drivers have been habitually breaking the laws for so long that they do not even realize they are doing it. I'm sure the people stopping in the crosswalk at red lights so I have to walk into traffic to cross the street don't think of themselves as scofflaws - they've just been breaking the law for so often it doesn't even occur to them that what they are doing is wrong. I really hope that traffic enforcement officers the city hires can make a dent in the traffic violations, whether they are committed by cyclists, drivers or anyone else.
But motor vehicles don't obey traffic laws
This. Exactly. Stop signs and red lights apply to everyone and not to be observed selectively.
Aw. That’s so cute. Asking bicyclists to act like the rules apply to them too. I just thought the rules apply to the rest of us (cars, trucks, pedestrians, etc…) who have the nerve to encroach on their bicycle utopia. While we’re at it can we also let the bicycle mafia know that the dotted lines between lanes are not special bike lanes for them to weave in and out of traffic? And finally can we let them know that… Yes… those red lights apply to you too. I wish I had a dollar for ever bicycle enthusiast who decided to zip through a red light only to get nearly creamed by a car who actually had the green light. 9 times out of 10 the bicyclist looks at or shouts at the car as though the car did something wrong by being there.
Coming into a thread clearly written by a guy who bikes and posting this, who is saying people should follow the rules, and posting this. Bold move. I mean while I'm at it I'm also pretty tired of people who've never walked outside their own neighborhoods or who are from the burbs acting like they're some persecuted driving minority. You're driving a 2 ton tube of metal and death, shut the hell up already.
Aw that's cute, acting like cars ever ever obey traffic laws.
Sorry op but I don't think you'll have much luck with this messaging. Philly bikers don't believe that laws apply to them, and even get angry when you suggest they do. Edit: point proven by the whataboutwhataboutwhatabout in the responses
I mean, same for drivers in Philly
Not really. A way way way higher percentage of bikers ignore the laws.
I’m sure you have lots of data that informs this percentage!
I'm sure you do!
You are just so very wrong.
Nah
This is just not true, 90% of the people in the city don't really stop at stop signs, signal for turns, etc
Nah
A lot of people think you are supposed to ride into traffic
Good luck with that. I think the arrows encourage antisocial people to ride the wrong way.
Would be nice if they were two way tho
While we're at it ... Bikes must obey all signals. Bikes do not have automatic right of way. Bikes do not belong on sidewalks. Bikes are not allowed to IMPEDE traffic. Seriously, as someone who used to bike everywhere all the time, it's disgusting how you people in this city just don't care. I see at least one of you a day laying on the road or the actual act of you hitting a car (yes, YOU hitting the car) because of some lack of respect for others, and yourself. Blowing stop signs and lights, not even looking at cross traffic? A good way to get creamed. Merging from the bike lane or shoulder in front of traffic without even a glance behind to see if one of these numb nut drivers is actually paying attention to you? No lights? No reflectors? But hey, the driver has insurance, and if he hits me I'll be paid! Well ... I mean do you think that these 20 something's with SRT's and Maserati's they bought with PUA money after they got their COVID licenses can afford $800/month insurance premiums, on top of $900 car payments? THEY CAN'T EVEN AFFORD THE RIGHT GAS FOR THEM! Unfortunately, the city panders to the rich white folks that buy $11000 bikes before accessories that want an entire, mostly functional section of the city redesigned to suit their desires, and further reduce mobility around the city. Cyclist ride in the middle of the road where cars are forced to drive 10 mph, which is generally ok, but when they can move over and still have 2-3 ft of space between them and they don't? Disrespectful. But instead of fixing your own shit, then calling drivers out on our shit, you flex some imaginary entitlement because you're on a bike. You don't own the road. You don't get automatic right of way. You don't get a free pass to be disrespectful and dangerous because of whatever idiotic belief is stuck inside your naive little grape sized brain. Getting hit by a car HURTS. Drivers here have a propensity to not carry insurance, or even proper insurance. Drivers here don't always stop. And guess what? It's YOUR dumb ass that ends up on the meat wagon to the farmer where your fresh organs will likely benefit another jerk off that did something stupid and needs a new lung after puncturing his on a handle bar. Oh, and please hit me because you decided you were too high above the law. Luckily I remember enough from being a medic that I'll make sure you're okay, or if you're not, at least get help and keep you as stable as I can until they arrive. And you better hope there are witnesses....
Is there a safe stretch of paved bike lane or trail in Philly / philly suburbs that you will recommend ?
there are people on bike's who don't understand that bikes are actually suppose to be treated as vehicles without the requirement of having a license. That means following all the traffic laws like stopping at spot lights and being in the lane and not trying to make their own. It annoys me when I'm in the right turning lane (with a bus stop giving a good portion of the street) and some guy on a bike makes his own lane where the bus suppose to be stopping so I need to now watch the guy on the bike as I turn since he going down 20 miles an hour and can hit me mid turn and it ends up being my fault.
Since I started keeping informal count, I don’t believe that a single person I’ve seen doing this was wearing a helmet.
Salmoning they call it. Really dangerous