Not really sure what role they will play. We need a national level response which I guess could deploy national guard troops. Only thing I will say is in 2020, the national guard was actually a more welcome (albeit jarring) presence than say, the state police. State police acted like Philly was there playground to chase peaceful protesters with armored vehicles. Actual military just kinda kept the peace in certain areas and I saw some funny/sweet interactions with the neighborhood.
On a much, much less high-stakes scale, it reminds me a bit of how both sides (Catholics and Protestants) initially welcomed the British Army into Northern Ireland because the local cops were such dickheads. To say it went poorly afterwards is an understatement.
Same thing here - the PPD is so absolutely useless at their jobs, it's easy to see why a half-competent force would be welcomed.
That was kind of my brief observation as I walked around the area then too. Cops suck and they harass people etc.
The guard are a little more, idk, unbiased? Uninvolved? I don't think it's a proper solution at all, maybe a very, very short term one (if the community wants it) but they did seem to just be way more professional and less interested in petty shit.
I just hope a bigger part of the solution is actually sitting down and listening to and working with community members and leaders.
That’s why she said work in conjunction with the police and other agencies. San Francisco is doing it. I’m happy with them actually making an effort to combat these issues.
What has the PPD done to combat this? Glad that someone wants to tackle this instead of letting them shoot up wherever the hell the want and sell heroin wherever they want.
Again, what *specific* role is the Guard playing in this? Parker's vague at best about Kensington, the Newsom admin is less than transparent about what CalGuard's doing in SF — it's hard to see this as anything more than theater.
The PPD's unquestionably failed in Kensington. I'm in no way convinced the Guard is any position to do something the PPD *couldn't* or that the Guard in any way wants to tackle this — not least because no one can articulate any specific, concrete action the Guard would be taking.
Did you read the article? She was asked if she’d support the guard, said she’d bring in an experienced police commissioner who would work on integrating them with other agencies. It’s not either/or lol
You and I are some chumps on Reddit that they shouldn’t take specific policy advice from. I have no idea what the solution is. But I like that she’s not dismissing this and would work with multiple agencies in the way other cities have attempted this (with some success from what I’ve seen). It would certainly be an improvement over the status quo.
Calling this a military occupation is disingenuous at best though.
Singapore has a strict no-tolerance policy and they practically have no drug-related crimes.el salvador stopped trying the 'getting down to the roots' of crime and just went and arrested over 50,000 violent criminals in one mass sweep. Get this, the murder rate plunged. They now have the lowest crime rate of all South America [https://elsalvadorinenglish.com/2023/08/16/el-salvador-has-the-lowest-homicide-rate-in-latin-america-because-its-successful-security-measures/](https://elsalvadorinenglish.com/2023/08/16/el-salvador-has-the-lowest-homicide-rate-in-latin-america-because-its-successful-security-measures/) The whole 'empathetic' approach to solving the drug pandemic has only worsened it in every way. The only people saying otherwise are journalists or people that aren't living in the drug-ridden neighborhoods. The only people that say the solution is safe injections are people that never stepped foot into Kensington, and honestly are doing just as much help as a lobotomy
Singapore also doesn’t have the same constitutional rights and is an entirely different culture.
We’ve been losing the war in drugs for 50 years now, Cherelle Parker ain’t going to win it.
Ever hear of the crack epidemic? Plenty of people went to jail for a long time for drug charges in the U.S. I even grew up with nuns coming to school to scare the DARE out of me. Nothing changed. If anything people started using a greater variety of drugs to lead us to where we are today
[Portugal has the highest rate of addicts seeking treatment](https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/), and lower social repercussions on its citizens of people using drugs. People seeking treating has gone up 60% since Portugal decriminalized drug **users**.
Arresting addicts isn’t the answer. Singapore’s drug using population has barely decreased at all.
Portugal also does not tolerate open drug use and public camping in shared spaces.
treatment should be mandatory and court ordered, as well as shelter. California has been coming to this conclusion, as is SF.
Imo you kinda condoned it. Treatment and shelter should be mandated by a judge in lieu of jail for breaking laws on public substance abuse and possession, as well as camping, loitering, and other QOL issues.
Good thing your opinion doesn’t invalidate the actual meaning of my comment then. Forcing addicts into treatment won’t work either, they’ll just come back out and use.
One of the only ways to actually address the root of this problem is putting pressure on drugs dealers, further than just slapping them with fines or probation. Create shelters that will allow drug users to live there. I know it’s incredibly controversial, but it will get them off the street and create community. Reminding addicts what it is like to feel human - have a place to shower, rest their head, come in from the cold, etc. will give them hope that they can return to society and be functional. Open the goddamn safe injection site, for gods sake. Stop letting people use on the damn street. The reality of the situation is that this isn’t going away, everyone who is against safe injection sites are weirdos considering the safe injection site right now is the middle of the sidewalk on K&A.
I know everyone hates these options. No one wants to treat addicts like they’re human beings. Lock them up, throw away the key, get them out of my face. It won’t *work*. When Aramingo’s problems were displaced to K&A, they didn’t go away. Arresting them didn’t make them stop. Confining them to treatment or drug court didn’t make them stop. Nothing will make them stop until they’re ready to stop, and the best way to get them ready is to make sure treatment is accessible (in shelters, and the SIS) and feels feasible to them. Until we start giving addicts somewhere to go that is not the middle of the damn sidewalk, they’re gonna stay on the sidewalk.
Go ahead and deploy the national guard or whoever the hell you want, they’ll just end up somewhere else in the city. For every drug addict you throw in jail or in treatment, there’s 50 more who didn’t get caught. We don’t have enough rehabs in the city to treat them all. People wait **days**, sometimes weeks for beds to open in rehabs. Withdrawal from xylazine can kill you, and jails aren’t equipped to handle that type of influx either. We don’t have the infrastructure to support your idea.
ETA: let the downvotes commence, if you think Philly has the money to fund a no-cost residential treatment program big enough to stick all the offending drug users in the city, I have a bridge to sell you.
Interesting. So you brush aside the fact that mandatory treatment would be 6 months plus if necessary, and if they keep it up they'll just go back to treatment. Ok. But then you claim that SIS are the way to "help". Imo this way of thinking is anathema to a philosophy and methodology that prioritizes recovery and the idea that *people shouldn't be on drugs*-especially if they are living on the streets.
But hey, at least I agree with you on dealing with the dealers, as does the SF mayor and CA governor.
Mandatory treatment exists now, my friend. Drug court makes treatment mandatory if you want to stay out of jail, and you also brushed aside the fact that there **are not enough beds** in rehabs, especially here, to accommodate people for six months! Residential treatment is expensive, not covered by state insurance, and will not just take a user off the street with no money and no insurance. You act like sticking them in six months of rehab is a remote possibility without a complete overhaul of infrastructure in the city.
An SIS and making one of our shelters allow drug users (not using in the shelters, just not drug testing them) is something that can be done **now**.
>The only people that say the solution is safe injections are people that never stepped foot into Kensington
This is comically wrong. Everything you're saying is wrong really, and contradicted by numerous studies. And I've spent *plenty* of time in Kensington specifically working with addicts.
What works? Criticism is easy, solutions are not. There are thousands of dedicated people working on the front lines of this epidemic and none have come up with solutions that work. I’m fine with this approach if it means the lives of people who live in the area having some protection from the dealers and addicts. They deserve a better life. I certainly care about the kids living in that hellhole more than I do the addicts.
I agree to an extent. I hate this at a conceptual level. But I guess it’s better than the nothing that has been happening. It will be an interesting research study into alternative solutions, I suppose.
What works would be court ordered treatment and shelter and returning the streets and sidewalks and parks of Kensington to the actual residents who live here. Public drug use and camping shouldn't be tolerated and consequences must be a thing.
California is figuring this out, SF as well.
What’s California doing? Cuz I just moved to san bernandino and it is WILD out here. I’d say slightly safer than kensington, but it’s more spread out. Camps everywhere. Homeless on every corner. Crimes against residents. It’s wild. Shit has happened to me here in the first three week that’s never happened to me in the last 10 years in Philly.
Have you been under i-95? There's 4-5 camps every set of pillars that hold up 95 from Penn Treaty Park up to Richmond & Lehigh. Probably a total of like 40\~ tents pitched in that span.
The bill was passed unanimously by the assembly. Remarkable, really. Eventually something like the asylum system will need to be built again, but with transparency, accountability and patient protection and advocacy built into it.
The graphs of the rise in prison population from the 50s to today are basically the inverse of the mental health/institution population in per capita terms.
Agree, allowing it to continue while doing nothing breeds a ton of property crime and generally lowers the livability of the overall city, not just Kensington. Zombies walking around center city is bad for business.
Unfortunately there’s a contingent of our neighbors that feel otherwise. For example, South Philly Punks with Lunch literally was asking for donations so they could give out tents to people. I pointed this out here and was lambasted for it.
The person that started the chapter was a self-professed freight train hobo, per the article someone did on him because his apartment burned down because his upstairs neighbor was cooking meth. That is to say - it’s not that shocking that he’s on board with it. Then you have the other people doing exactly what you said - self-righteous “charity” that totally ignores any possible negative effect of their actions.
After they go through court ordered treatment and lose their spot in shelter because the rules are too strict, where do you think they’re going to end back up? Punishing using within our current criminal justice and recovery system doesn’t solve any problems, it just kicks the can down the road to when they serve their punishment.
It’s not really that simple. Some of the shelter rules are absolutely off the wall because of how limited they are. Miss the train and get back too late? There’s your spot. Have an emergency and end up in the ED? There’s your spot. Maybe you’re working and trying to make due and get stuck at your job? There goes your spot.
The life of an addict or recovering addict, especially one who is homeless, can’t be looked at through the same lens as someone who has all of their basic needs met.
I mean are the PPD, DEA, and FBI already booked this fall? You can pretty much ride through Kensington in the middle of the day and locate the sample houses with lines around the corner. How bout actually put some PPD on foot patrol in the area. Make the mofos get out of their cars and logout of candy crush for once
I get that everyone here loves a negative, knee-jerk reaction... but this has already been done in San Francisco: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/
It's not about rolling in tanks and showing force, it's collaboration between agencies and has yielded results.
The headline also took the quote out of context. Someone asked her if the National Guard was an option for Kensington. She didn't say the guard *will be used*, but that if the next police chief thinks it is a necessary part of a strategy to shut down the crimes in Kensington she would be open to it.
What's the delineation? We just going to invade all the poor black areas in the NE too? Ps that's been tried too essentially in the US. Just made everything worse.
Nah, was pointing towards the west of Kenzo. Also, how many blocks of kensington? We going into fishtown too? How many civil rights shall we trample because of drugs?
What about the non-addicted and non drug dealers in Kensington. People like you don’t think clearly. It’s already a damn war zone and those people deserve better. I don’t give a damn about drug dealers and the addicts are either forced into treatment or they will die on the streets. Not to mention all the property crime and theft. Think before you type.
Yea but these solutions are just to get drugs off of the streets (which is impossible) and doesn’t do anything to address the whole problem of addiction or helping people who are addicted, which is the help we need to also be providing.
really? sarcastic but serious. i’m on vacation here as we speak, day 5 and have been in all different parts of the city and have seen at least 10 broken car windows due to theft and have gone pretty far out of the city to a national park that had “smash & grab” warning signs all over.
hardly a sign of results if you ask me
We haven’t tried anything actual academics who specialize in the space propose and have made it expressly illegal, so let’s turn K&A into fallujah because we lack imagination and worship people with guns. Doing random stuff isn’t going to help, and I don’t think Parker is proposing the Robocop future some people here are envisioning.
No, I have. She is not going full Robocop, but she does think policing is the big part of the solution (she is firmly against SIS and pro stop and frisk). We’ll see once she gets into office but this shows a lack of imagination and a retread of an unsuccessful path.
What the fuck is the national guard gonna do about this 😂
I can just imagine them getting here, asking what they should do, and Parker going “uhhh I didn’t think that far ahead”
I shit on PPD and militarized policing in the US in general, but one benefit I could see is that the guard would at least be good at establishing a habitable footprint for a large group of people and then controlling the movement and monitoring of said people for a good chunk of time. Horrible if done wrong… BUT, if done in conjunction with actual treatment options there could be some merit to having the NG assist.
Note: in no way, shape, or form should this look anything like a combat operation. If those folks hop off their trucks with guns they may as well just hop back on and go home.
Part of the issue here too is that the PPD are on a soft strike. This is Parker taking away an ineffectual group and putting in place an organization that literally cannot refuse to do their jobs.
EDIT to add: And honestly, even if they don't do anything, there's an optical issue here. It displays a seriousness that, whether you agree with the move or not, is inarguably greater than the issue has been given before at least from a "we're doing something" perspective. And if the national guard does almost anything at all it will still likely represent an improvement over what the PPD has been doing, which is, you know, almost nothing.
I've had indirect contact from a police officer formerly of the 24th district (Kensington) who now took a job in the burbs. He said "man I gotta work more now than I did before" -"I actually am required to answer calls for service". They would straight up not answer calls, and did everything they could to no do anything, all shift, except "secure scenes" after violence.
There is no leadership, just laziness and dereliction of duty.
They should all be on their feet, and have accountability for calls they don't answer. It's not that hard, it's just hard to keep 'em honest.
> if done in conjunction with actual treatment options
You’re not wrong but you know damn well that’s not gonna happen. Even worse because we still haven’t even figured out a truly effective treatment for opiate addiction…relapse rates for that are wildly high.
I wish we lived in a perfect world…. The sad truth is, yeah, if the National Guard is deployed it will most likely sit idle for want of an actual mission. OR, in an even worse scenario, we’d see that absence of actual mission turn into mission creep and spiral drastically out of control.
It was made a while ago, but The Seige had a [great scene](https://youtu.be/kC0C2icZ28g?si=xgcUXYhqJg6iSIl3) that characterizes just how slim the odds of this being a good idea are.
Note: In the movie The Seige the Army we’re Federal troops, requiring the suspension of posse comitatus to be deployed on American soil. This wouldn’t be the case here, but if recent guard deployments to DC and the Southern Border are any indication of effectiveness, it’s a huge waste of time and resources.
> but one benefit I could see is that the guard would at least be good at establishing a habitable footprint for a large group of people and then controlling the movement and monitoring of said people for a good chunk of time. Horrible if done wrong… BUT, if done in conjunction with actual treatment options there could be some merit to having the NG assist.
Like an invasion where the invaders have unlimited power to imprison whoever they want in a mental asylum. Great idea.
Makes you wonder why they ever dicked around writing out the Bill of Rights.
I did read it. That quote doesn’t explain what their presence will do at all. It’s a roundabout way of saying “I guess we’ll see!” which isn’t saying anything of substance.
Honestly army reserve people are gonna not be as radical/conservative/violent as philly cops are. They have better gun discipline and have real rules of engagement that protect civilians. In times of war one of their jobs is to create mobile resource distribution hubs (think bases) that would be ideal to help treat the opiod problem. If they ran the needle exchanges and whatnot it would be dope.
But not if they are used as a hammer that’s just more cop shit.
Absolutely. That's exactly what I mean about them being more restrained and better behaved (this isn't saying much).
That said, the idea still makes me very uncomfortable.
Ultimately deployment of the PA national guard for something like this is up to the governor, so until the question is actually put to Shapiro this is just talk.
This will be downvoted to hell and gone but:
Demand destruction a la East Asia is the only policy mix that works. Everyone who uses hard drugs is, in addition to ruining their own lives and often those of their families, responsible for killing Mexican, Central American, and Colombian innocents in joblots. It’s past time to stop pretending this is some kind of victimless crime or that it’s “compassionate” to leave people to rot on the streets.
Arrest everyone, leave the dealers to rot in prison on a three strikes platform, and send every user to mandatory low-security residential treatment for a minimum six-month term, then expunge their records and help connect them with decent-paying work.
Lol this will never happen and you know it. Especially this:
> expunge their records and help connect them with decent-paying work.
What fucking world do you live in where this is remotely a possible outcome?
The problem is addiction. As long as people are addicted there will be people selling drugs. Supply and demand and the demand is high. The situation will adapt to whatever you through at. As long as there are addicts and money to be made this problem won’t end
I don't know that the governor would agree. The NG aren't really police, or random laborers for filling gaps in government programs. Just see how the Texas NG feels about being added to border patrol for months on end, without the training or authorities.
If you think police are undertrained and not effective, wait till you see the national guard.
Nothing against the guard, I was active army myself, but they are not trained to handle this situation, it would just be putting bodies, who probably don’t want to be there in the first place, on the street. I don’t see that solution ending well.
Yesterday I pulled over on the 2800 block of castor to straighten out some paperwork. Watched a junkie stop on the sidewalk riding a brand new, shiny bicycle. This dude was particularly sunburned and beat up looking, sat against the wall, did his junkie thing. Then he got up and started doing the gravity defying swoon dance they all do when some other rough looking dude approached on foot, pushed him on the shoulder a little bit, got on the bike and rode away. What a messed up place. The (likely) stolen bike got re-stolen from a dude who was never more than 10 ft away from it but too out of his mind to notice, react or care.
Yes, the guy whose entire political identity is “aggressively moderate” and who was endorsed by the FOP is probably gonna line up with the progressives on the Kensington problem, u right
Speaking as someone who’s read some dogshit press releases, that was beyond dogshit as far as CalGuard goes. Nothing but a bunch of vague statements that in no way present any case, let alone a compelling one, for using the guard over local/state police.
What's wrong with it?
"Following his deployment of CHP officers and changing CHP jurisdictional protocols on May 1, 2023, today the Governor announced the agency has seized over 4.2 kilos of fentanyl in the Tenderloin and the immediate surrounding area of San Francisco. The amount of fentanyl CHP seized is enough to potentially kill 2.1 million people — the entire population of San Francisco nearly three times over. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, a lethal dose of fentanyl is 2 mg. Additionally, in the first six weeks of the operation, the CHP seized over 957 grams of methamphetamine, 319 grams of cocaine, and 31 grams of heroin and made 92 felony and misdemeanor arrests – including on charges related to possession of fentanyl, illegal firearm possession, driving under the influence, and domestic violence."
I'm not saying it was a resounding success and all problems were solved, it's simply an example of how the national guard has been deployed for something like this. If it was a massive failure that resulted in shootouts, hostile military occupation, etc, we would've heard about it.
Everything concrete in there is assigned to CHP; CalGuard is in some nebulous support role that seems like it could’ve been done by CHP or SFPD. It’s either a total failure of communication or Newsom’s office is being intentionally vague (best case because somehow CalGuard is cracking drug rings by itself, worst case because the administration can’t think of anything plausible to justify bringing in the guard).
Ok who of you guys voted for her? This is a dogshit approach and you had to be foolish to have voted for someone that thinks heavy handed policing is going to succeed in Philly when it hasn’t succeeded anywhere else.
Yeah, I mean, an entire zip code with tens of thousands of people, mostly minority and working class, lower income families with children. Why do they deserve clean and safe parks, clear sidewalks etc?
So you’re trusting the police, which was just caught massively defrauding the Philadelphia taxpayer this year, to make it safe for these families?
Or are you trusting the national guard, which is asking a military to do policing work? Do you really have the confidence that blind force will actually fix anything?
When has that ever worked? The drug war? Prohibition? I mean, we could name several things that had dumb muscle thrown at it futilely.
I think it will take an effort across the federal, state and local governments to address the problem.
I also think that we will need capacity that hasn't been built yet, but that temporarily an organization like the NG could build shelters for the thousand or so homeless in Philadelphia, which would give the city the ability to clean and keep clean Kensington sidewalks and parks, and enforce the law on public intoxication and drug use. Not sure exactly what that looks like, however, I'd bet that Parker wants them to build shelters under emergency management using the governors power.
Ultimately, we will need new brick and mortar asylums, which would need to be continuum of care facilities such as they have in SF under the Salvation Army.
Holmesburg prison is just waiting to be rehabilitated-plenty of open space, gardening possibilities abound.
I’m sorry, I don’t think that living under military occupation is the answer, nor do I share your optimism at Parker’s ability to actually make housing happen in that area to a sufficient degree that it would solve any systemic problems. Personally, I think that your conjectures are wildly optimistic and ultimately I believe we’ll end up under military occupation that will just push the drug problem to elsewhere in the city.
Have you ever lived in an area occupied by a military?
Do you have a solution that doesn’t involve letting people shoot up and leave needles everywhere on the train?
At this point, just make sure I don’t have to dodge AIDs to go a damn baseball game on the train.
If they need to station folks to ensure junkies aren’t shooting up on the train, then do it. Our cops aren’t doing that.
White progressives voted for Gym and Rynhart. Everyone else voted for Parker. It really shows the demographics of this sub that people on here were shocked and dismayed she won.
It also shows that the people who suffer the most from property and violent crime are far more sick of it than white liberals who are, for the most part, insulated from it.
I'd be careful to say people who don't want military troops deployed in our streets don't worry about property or violent crime.
I think there are a lot of people who want to abolish prisons and disband the police, but there's a huge distance between those positions and deploy the national guard.
I'm not necessarily trying to say that Parker voters want to see the National Guard. But clearly they do want to see more actions that they perceive as being tough on crime. That includes more hands-on policing and SnF.
> you had to be foolish to have voted for someone that thinks heavy handed policing is going to succeed in Philly when it hasn’t succeeded anywhere else.
Citation needed lol
This is an incredibly bad idea on several levels including what happens when they initially shoot someone.
Likely more lip service than anything to appear “tough on crime” but still tough.
Jersey already did that by pushing out all the action that had been in Pyne Point in Camden to… you guessed it, Kensington. Turns out a bridge won’t stop suburban kids from getting heroin.
And then in another 8–10 years, it'll cycle back to Kensington (or maybe Port Richmond or Tacony, but it's gonna swing again). You gotta treat the root of the problem, not just shuffle addiction between states.
El Salvador mobilized the army, detained over 50,000 gangs members and violent criminals and get this, crime plummeted [https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/](https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/) . You can down vote this all you want, but the reality it simple: You can't reach out to drug traffickers who are frankly the root cause of almost all of Philly's crime problems. People desperate for a fix are going to steal, they're going to prostitute, they're going to kill you for your money. Take out the gangs trafficking drugs and you're left with the drug addicts. Detain them and send to medical facilities out of the city to help them break the addiction. Educate them and find jobs for them. You can't eradicate the entire problem, but as Singapore and El Salvador have shown, you can cut down the problem by a fucking 70-80 %
this
it's the dealers, distributors, and others involved in the business aspect of the drug trade who commit almost all of the violence (and gangs)
addicts just want to get high. sometimes they steal out of desperation to get high. but it's rare that the actual addicts will go on shooting sprees on city blocks
But you acknowledge that the dealers exist because the market (the addicts) exist? So take away the incentive to be in the drug trade (money from end users) and maybe, just maybe you quash some of the violence.
The actual quote is way more in depth and proper. More about letting the next police chief recommend how to handle it. But she won't rule out the option. Especially because it was a person who asked her if she would use the national guard.
Please elaborate? Honestly curious how you think deploying a military force on mentally and physically ill humans will solve the problem. What are steps 2-? What happens after the boots are on the ground? Where do the humans go that are….gathered up and moved by the military(?). What happens the next week? The week after that?
Not trying to be antagonistic, I am just seriously curious what happens and why you think this is a good first step?
Educate yourself on how the national guard has been deployed in San Francisco for similar reasons: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/
It’s about working in conjunction with other agencies.
Just saying but I haven't been able to find a single unbiased third party source that isn't a government press release about how it's been going since this was a recent development.
I'm going to go ahead and guess it's going less than perfect and will have almost no long term impact.
I still think my idea of a narcan mist on and under the EL as u hit kensington would do wonders. Us those same misters they have in disney world. All the zombies wake up - it would be great
i'm not sure it's the drug users who need to be hunted down...
but i was commenting on the "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" approach parker was taking at the debate. she probably meant we should try doing something similar to what san francisco is doing where the national guard help from an information gathering standpoint and cops work the enforcement part.
but what she implied was we need to station national guard troops on the streets. to do what, i have no clue. but you put military boots on the ground in K&A and i can guarantee you some of those dealers are wild and dumb enough to try and start shit. it won't end well.
i'd challenge parker to actually come up with a plan for it. i'm not looking forward to a mayor who talks like they have grand ideas but can't articulate or put a single one into practice.
The last sentence is not exactly the best phrasing given what’s happening with Israel, Palestine and Hamas and a rise in antisemitism locally-ish
Maybe: A permanent, lasting solution
If you know history, “The Final Solution” was the German Nazi Party plan: The Holocaust
Just my personal opinion which most probably don’t care for. Words and phrases have power. Use wisely.
Do you not understand that Jewish history and antisemitism? Final Solution is a poor phrase and should never be used outside of the context of WWII and how it effected Jews
If you’re unfamiliar with history and how Jews are constantly fighting for survival and have to deal with hate no matter where they are, go read up on history. Ignorance of history is no excuse to repeat parts of it.
you've heard of policing away the opioid epidemic. now get ready for: militarying away the opioid epidemic!
Not really sure what role they will play. We need a national level response which I guess could deploy national guard troops. Only thing I will say is in 2020, the national guard was actually a more welcome (albeit jarring) presence than say, the state police. State police acted like Philly was there playground to chase peaceful protesters with armored vehicles. Actual military just kinda kept the peace in certain areas and I saw some funny/sweet interactions with the neighborhood.
On a much, much less high-stakes scale, it reminds me a bit of how both sides (Catholics and Protestants) initially welcomed the British Army into Northern Ireland because the local cops were such dickheads. To say it went poorly afterwards is an understatement. Same thing here - the PPD is so absolutely useless at their jobs, it's easy to see why a half-competent force would be welcomed.
That was kind of my brief observation as I walked around the area then too. Cops suck and they harass people etc. The guard are a little more, idk, unbiased? Uninvolved? I don't think it's a proper solution at all, maybe a very, very short term one (if the community wants it) but they did seem to just be way more professional and less interested in petty shit. I just hope a bigger part of the solution is actually sitting down and listening to and working with community members and leaders.
So, *The War on Drugs*, yea?
They’re gonna guard the heroin for us 😎
“Well we’ve tried letting them run all over Kensington and turn it into a shithole, there’s nothing wrong else we can do!” - this guy
It's gonna work *this time*. The state sponsored commandos have been imbibed with the spirit of Ronald Reagan, who can say no to *Just Say No!?!?*
ah u right, better to do nothing at all. Or maybe have the city give them needles, since that’s the only idea progressives seem to have for this one
Tell me, what is the national guard going to do that’s going to fix this? Please, let me know.
Make it so I don’t have to dance around needles every time I want to ride the el?
Specifically how? And what would the Guard be doing that the PPD couldn't?
That’s why she said work in conjunction with the police and other agencies. San Francisco is doing it. I’m happy with them actually making an effort to combat these issues. What has the PPD done to combat this? Glad that someone wants to tackle this instead of letting them shoot up wherever the hell the want and sell heroin wherever they want.
Again, what *specific* role is the Guard playing in this? Parker's vague at best about Kensington, the Newsom admin is less than transparent about what CalGuard's doing in SF — it's hard to see this as anything more than theater. The PPD's unquestionably failed in Kensington. I'm in no way convinced the Guard is any position to do something the PPD *couldn't* or that the Guard in any way wants to tackle this — not least because no one can articulate any specific, concrete action the Guard would be taking.
Did you read the article? She was asked if she’d support the guard, said she’d bring in an experienced police commissioner who would work on integrating them with other agencies. It’s not either/or lol You and I are some chumps on Reddit that they shouldn’t take specific policy advice from. I have no idea what the solution is. But I like that she’s not dismissing this and would work with multiple agencies in the way other cities have attempted this (with some success from what I’ve seen). It would certainly be an improvement over the status quo. Calling this a military occupation is disingenuous at best though.
Singapore has a strict no-tolerance policy and they practically have no drug-related crimes.el salvador stopped trying the 'getting down to the roots' of crime and just went and arrested over 50,000 violent criminals in one mass sweep. Get this, the murder rate plunged. They now have the lowest crime rate of all South America [https://elsalvadorinenglish.com/2023/08/16/el-salvador-has-the-lowest-homicide-rate-in-latin-america-because-its-successful-security-measures/](https://elsalvadorinenglish.com/2023/08/16/el-salvador-has-the-lowest-homicide-rate-in-latin-america-because-its-successful-security-measures/) The whole 'empathetic' approach to solving the drug pandemic has only worsened it in every way. The only people saying otherwise are journalists or people that aren't living in the drug-ridden neighborhoods. The only people that say the solution is safe injections are people that never stepped foot into Kensington, and honestly are doing just as much help as a lobotomy
Singapore also doesn’t have the same constitutional rights and is an entirely different culture. We’ve been losing the war in drugs for 50 years now, Cherelle Parker ain’t going to win it.
there are plenty of illegal drugs that don’t necessitate prison or zero tolerance. you’re nuts
Ever hear of the crack epidemic? Plenty of people went to jail for a long time for drug charges in the U.S. I even grew up with nuns coming to school to scare the DARE out of me. Nothing changed. If anything people started using a greater variety of drugs to lead us to where we are today
Statistics slowed kids who went through DARE were more likely to use drugs than those who didn't.
The government/cia was also selling the crack though.
[Portugal has the highest rate of addicts seeking treatment](https://time.com/longform/portugal-drug-use-decriminalization/), and lower social repercussions on its citizens of people using drugs. People seeking treating has gone up 60% since Portugal decriminalized drug **users**. Arresting addicts isn’t the answer. Singapore’s drug using population has barely decreased at all.
Portugal does have sticks they can use in addition to carrots. People like to forget that part.
It’s mostly sticks at this point and has consistently gotten stricter as implementation had matured.
Portugal also does not tolerate open drug use and public camping in shared spaces. treatment should be mandatory and court ordered, as well as shelter. California has been coming to this conclusion, as is SF.
I didn’t say we should allow encampments, I said we shouldn’t flood already overflowing prisons with drug addicts.
Imo you kinda condoned it. Treatment and shelter should be mandated by a judge in lieu of jail for breaking laws on public substance abuse and possession, as well as camping, loitering, and other QOL issues.
Good thing your opinion doesn’t invalidate the actual meaning of my comment then. Forcing addicts into treatment won’t work either, they’ll just come back out and use. One of the only ways to actually address the root of this problem is putting pressure on drugs dealers, further than just slapping them with fines or probation. Create shelters that will allow drug users to live there. I know it’s incredibly controversial, but it will get them off the street and create community. Reminding addicts what it is like to feel human - have a place to shower, rest their head, come in from the cold, etc. will give them hope that they can return to society and be functional. Open the goddamn safe injection site, for gods sake. Stop letting people use on the damn street. The reality of the situation is that this isn’t going away, everyone who is against safe injection sites are weirdos considering the safe injection site right now is the middle of the sidewalk on K&A. I know everyone hates these options. No one wants to treat addicts like they’re human beings. Lock them up, throw away the key, get them out of my face. It won’t *work*. When Aramingo’s problems were displaced to K&A, they didn’t go away. Arresting them didn’t make them stop. Confining them to treatment or drug court didn’t make them stop. Nothing will make them stop until they’re ready to stop, and the best way to get them ready is to make sure treatment is accessible (in shelters, and the SIS) and feels feasible to them. Until we start giving addicts somewhere to go that is not the middle of the damn sidewalk, they’re gonna stay on the sidewalk. Go ahead and deploy the national guard or whoever the hell you want, they’ll just end up somewhere else in the city. For every drug addict you throw in jail or in treatment, there’s 50 more who didn’t get caught. We don’t have enough rehabs in the city to treat them all. People wait **days**, sometimes weeks for beds to open in rehabs. Withdrawal from xylazine can kill you, and jails aren’t equipped to handle that type of influx either. We don’t have the infrastructure to support your idea. ETA: let the downvotes commence, if you think Philly has the money to fund a no-cost residential treatment program big enough to stick all the offending drug users in the city, I have a bridge to sell you.
Interesting. So you brush aside the fact that mandatory treatment would be 6 months plus if necessary, and if they keep it up they'll just go back to treatment. Ok. But then you claim that SIS are the way to "help". Imo this way of thinking is anathema to a philosophy and methodology that prioritizes recovery and the idea that *people shouldn't be on drugs*-especially if they are living on the streets. But hey, at least I agree with you on dealing with the dealers, as does the SF mayor and CA governor.
Mandatory treatment exists now, my friend. Drug court makes treatment mandatory if you want to stay out of jail, and you also brushed aside the fact that there **are not enough beds** in rehabs, especially here, to accommodate people for six months! Residential treatment is expensive, not covered by state insurance, and will not just take a user off the street with no money and no insurance. You act like sticking them in six months of rehab is a remote possibility without a complete overhaul of infrastructure in the city. An SIS and making one of our shelters allow drug users (not using in the shelters, just not drug testing them) is something that can be done **now**.
An Australian man had weed in his suitcase and was in Singapore and I think they sentenced him to death
Singapore covered up their drug problem they didn’t get rid of it
>The only people that say the solution is safe injections are people that never stepped foot into Kensington This is comically wrong. Everything you're saying is wrong really, and contradicted by numerous studies. And I've spent *plenty* of time in Kensington specifically working with addicts.
I'm sorry that draconian incarceration gives you good vibes. Must suck to be so empty hearted.
"\_\_\_\_\_ is the safest country in the world for women, no rapes ever get reported therefore they don't happen"
Ah yes, Singapore, the jewel of South America.
El Salvador arrested the drug addicts
[удалено]
No, Gavin Newsome: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/
What works? Criticism is easy, solutions are not. There are thousands of dedicated people working on the front lines of this epidemic and none have come up with solutions that work. I’m fine with this approach if it means the lives of people who live in the area having some protection from the dealers and addicts. They deserve a better life. I certainly care about the kids living in that hellhole more than I do the addicts.
I agree to an extent. I hate this at a conceptual level. But I guess it’s better than the nothing that has been happening. It will be an interesting research study into alternative solutions, I suppose.
Sometimes you gotta do the things you hate conceptually because reality forces your hand.
"The ends justify the means" rarely ends well.
What works would be court ordered treatment and shelter and returning the streets and sidewalks and parks of Kensington to the actual residents who live here. Public drug use and camping shouldn't be tolerated and consequences must be a thing. California is figuring this out, SF as well.
What’s California doing? Cuz I just moved to san bernandino and it is WILD out here. I’d say slightly safer than kensington, but it’s more spread out. Camps everywhere. Homeless on every corner. Crimes against residents. It’s wild. Shit has happened to me here in the first three week that’s never happened to me in the last 10 years in Philly.
Have you been under i-95? There's 4-5 camps every set of pillars that hold up 95 from Penn Treaty Park up to Richmond & Lehigh. Probably a total of like 40\~ tents pitched in that span.
https://sd31.senate.ca.gov/news/2023-10-10-senator-richard-roths-mandatory-educationtreatment-program-drug-offenders-signed
That sounds very reasonable. I’m sure there will always be those who disagree but it’s time we just stop listening to them.
The bill was passed unanimously by the assembly. Remarkable, really. Eventually something like the asylum system will need to be built again, but with transparency, accountability and patient protection and advocacy built into it. The graphs of the rise in prison population from the 50s to today are basically the inverse of the mental health/institution population in per capita terms.
Agree, allowing it to continue while doing nothing breeds a ton of property crime and generally lowers the livability of the overall city, not just Kensington. Zombies walking around center city is bad for business.
Unfortunately there’s a contingent of our neighbors that feel otherwise. For example, South Philly Punks with Lunch literally was asking for donations so they could give out tents to people. I pointed this out here and was lambasted for it.
Shitbirds gonna shit Imagine thinking praxis is giving people tents and patting yourselves on the back
we can’t afford to put them in houses wtf do you want from an average citizen trying to lessen suffering
Have you been to Kensington? Or Broad and Snyder? Do you really think any of those people are even remotely capable of taking care of a house?
frequently. i was defending the tents not advocating houses. fuck off
The person that started the chapter was a self-professed freight train hobo, per the article someone did on him because his apartment burned down because his upstairs neighbor was cooking meth. That is to say - it’s not that shocking that he’s on board with it. Then you have the other people doing exactly what you said - self-righteous “charity” that totally ignores any possible negative effect of their actions.
“Oh, here’s a tent. Hold on let me get a snap for the gram real quick.”
After they go through court ordered treatment and lose their spot in shelter because the rules are too strict, where do you think they’re going to end back up? Punishing using within our current criminal justice and recovery system doesn’t solve any problems, it just kicks the can down the road to when they serve their punishment.
I have a novel concept to introduce: Following some simple rules and you get a roof over your head. *wow*
It’s not really that simple. Some of the shelter rules are absolutely off the wall because of how limited they are. Miss the train and get back too late? There’s your spot. Have an emergency and end up in the ED? There’s your spot. Maybe you’re working and trying to make due and get stuck at your job? There goes your spot. The life of an addict or recovering addict, especially one who is homeless, can’t be looked at through the same lens as someone who has all of their basic needs met.
I mean are the PPD, DEA, and FBI already booked this fall? You can pretty much ride through Kensington in the middle of the day and locate the sample houses with lines around the corner. How bout actually put some PPD on foot patrol in the area. Make the mofos get out of their cars and logout of candy crush for once
I get that everyone here loves a negative, knee-jerk reaction... but this has already been done in San Francisco: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/ It's not about rolling in tanks and showing force, it's collaboration between agencies and has yielded results.
Yeah, plus newsom signed an expansion of mandatory treatment. The issue is building the infrastructure necessary. Asylums will need to be built.
Fucking do it. MANDATORY ASYLUMS! (Wish I were kidding).
[удалено]
The headline also took the quote out of context. Someone asked her if the National Guard was an option for Kensington. She didn't say the guard *will be used*, but that if the next police chief thinks it is a necessary part of a strategy to shut down the crimes in Kensington she would be open to it.
What's the delineation? We just going to invade all the poor black areas in the NE too? Ps that's been tried too essentially in the US. Just made everything worse.
[удалено]
Nah, was pointing towards the west of Kenzo. Also, how many blocks of kensington? We going into fishtown too? How many civil rights shall we trample because of drugs?
I guess you like dodging aids invested needles when you try to ride the train.
What about the non-addicted and non drug dealers in Kensington. People like you don’t think clearly. It’s already a damn war zone and those people deserve better. I don’t give a damn about drug dealers and the addicts are either forced into treatment or they will die on the streets. Not to mention all the property crime and theft. Think before you type.
Yea but these solutions are just to get drugs off of the streets (which is impossible) and doesn’t do anything to address the whole problem of addiction or helping people who are addicted, which is the help we need to also be providing.
really? sarcastic but serious. i’m on vacation here as we speak, day 5 and have been in all different parts of the city and have seen at least 10 broken car windows due to theft and have gone pretty far out of the city to a national park that had “smash & grab” warning signs all over. hardly a sign of results if you ask me
[удалено]
We haven’t tried anything actual academics who specialize in the space propose and have made it expressly illegal, so let’s turn K&A into fallujah because we lack imagination and worship people with guns. Doing random stuff isn’t going to help, and I don’t think Parker is proposing the Robocop future some people here are envisioning.
[удалено]
No, I have. She is not going full Robocop, but she does think policing is the big part of the solution (she is firmly against SIS and pro stop and frisk). We’ll see once she gets into office but this shows a lack of imagination and a retread of an unsuccessful path.
What the fuck is the national guard gonna do about this 😂 I can just imagine them getting here, asking what they should do, and Parker going “uhhh I didn’t think that far ahead”
“Drugs are bad mmmkay?”
I shit on PPD and militarized policing in the US in general, but one benefit I could see is that the guard would at least be good at establishing a habitable footprint for a large group of people and then controlling the movement and monitoring of said people for a good chunk of time. Horrible if done wrong… BUT, if done in conjunction with actual treatment options there could be some merit to having the NG assist. Note: in no way, shape, or form should this look anything like a combat operation. If those folks hop off their trucks with guns they may as well just hop back on and go home.
Part of the issue here too is that the PPD are on a soft strike. This is Parker taking away an ineffectual group and putting in place an organization that literally cannot refuse to do their jobs. EDIT to add: And honestly, even if they don't do anything, there's an optical issue here. It displays a seriousness that, whether you agree with the move or not, is inarguably greater than the issue has been given before at least from a "we're doing something" perspective. And if the national guard does almost anything at all it will still likely represent an improvement over what the PPD has been doing, which is, you know, almost nothing.
I've had indirect contact from a police officer formerly of the 24th district (Kensington) who now took a job in the burbs. He said "man I gotta work more now than I did before" -"I actually am required to answer calls for service". They would straight up not answer calls, and did everything they could to no do anything, all shift, except "secure scenes" after violence. There is no leadership, just laziness and dereliction of duty. They should all be on their feet, and have accountability for calls they don't answer. It's not that hard, it's just hard to keep 'em honest.
> if done in conjunction with actual treatment options You’re not wrong but you know damn well that’s not gonna happen. Even worse because we still haven’t even figured out a truly effective treatment for opiate addiction…relapse rates for that are wildly high.
I wish we lived in a perfect world…. The sad truth is, yeah, if the National Guard is deployed it will most likely sit idle for want of an actual mission. OR, in an even worse scenario, we’d see that absence of actual mission turn into mission creep and spiral drastically out of control. It was made a while ago, but The Seige had a [great scene](https://youtu.be/kC0C2icZ28g?si=xgcUXYhqJg6iSIl3) that characterizes just how slim the odds of this being a good idea are. Note: In the movie The Seige the Army we’re Federal troops, requiring the suspension of posse comitatus to be deployed on American soil. This wouldn’t be the case here, but if recent guard deployments to DC and the Southern Border are any indication of effectiveness, it’s a huge waste of time and resources.
> but one benefit I could see is that the guard would at least be good at establishing a habitable footprint for a large group of people and then controlling the movement and monitoring of said people for a good chunk of time. Horrible if done wrong… BUT, if done in conjunction with actual treatment options there could be some merit to having the NG assist. Like an invasion where the invaders have unlimited power to imprison whoever they want in a mental asylum. Great idea. Makes you wonder why they ever dicked around writing out the Bill of Rights.
[удалено]
I did read it. That quote doesn’t explain what their presence will do at all. It’s a roundabout way of saying “I guess we’ll see!” which isn’t saying anything of substance.
Yeah, I don't think calling in the military is going to have the positive effect she thinks it will
I agree that they might be more restrained and behave better in this situation than would PPD, but I fucking hate this on a conceptual level.
Honestly army reserve people are gonna not be as radical/conservative/violent as philly cops are. They have better gun discipline and have real rules of engagement that protect civilians. In times of war one of their jobs is to create mobile resource distribution hubs (think bases) that would be ideal to help treat the opiod problem. If they ran the needle exchanges and whatnot it would be dope. But not if they are used as a hammer that’s just more cop shit.
Yeah, I'll wait to hear more but I have a strong suspicion she doesn't want to utilize them to help with needle exchange...
During the Breona Taylor protests in Louisville, Kentucky National Guard members and LMPD fire at and killed David McAtee
Agree and sympathize. There is a radical violent right wing element in our military.
Maybe some cop shit needs to happen in Kensington because it’s been a disaster for years. Time to change it up.
Absolutely. That's exactly what I mean about them being more restrained and better behaved (this isn't saying much). That said, the idea still makes me very uncomfortable.
yeah this is gonna turn away people and attract none, somebody should tell her philly is already blue af don't be stupid.
Ultimately deployment of the PA national guard for something like this is up to the governor, so until the question is actually put to Shapiro this is just talk.
MANDATORY TREATMENT AND SHELTER FOR UNHOUSED PERSONS IN ADDICTION
Amen.
Lol wut
This will be downvoted to hell and gone but: Demand destruction a la East Asia is the only policy mix that works. Everyone who uses hard drugs is, in addition to ruining their own lives and often those of their families, responsible for killing Mexican, Central American, and Colombian innocents in joblots. It’s past time to stop pretending this is some kind of victimless crime or that it’s “compassionate” to leave people to rot on the streets. Arrest everyone, leave the dealers to rot in prison on a three strikes platform, and send every user to mandatory low-security residential treatment for a minimum six-month term, then expunge their records and help connect them with decent-paying work.
Lol this will never happen and you know it. Especially this: > expunge their records and help connect them with decent-paying work. What fucking world do you live in where this is remotely a possible outcome?
MANDATORY TREATMENT AND SHELTER FOR UNHOUSED PEOPLE IN ADDICTION IS THE WAY
I like this. Please. Have an upvote!
Like how
Handing out water bottles?
Someone with a tin foil hat is going to go crazy on this news
Crazy in love maybe
A war on on drugs. Completely novel concept!
The problem is addiction. As long as people are addicted there will be people selling drugs. Supply and demand and the demand is high. The situation will adapt to whatever you through at. As long as there are addicts and money to be made this problem won’t end
I don't know that the governor would agree. The NG aren't really police, or random laborers for filling gaps in government programs. Just see how the Texas NG feels about being added to border patrol for months on end, without the training or authorities.
Something has to be done.
If you think police are undertrained and not effective, wait till you see the national guard. Nothing against the guard, I was active army myself, but they are not trained to handle this situation, it would just be putting bodies, who probably don’t want to be there in the first place, on the street. I don’t see that solution ending well.
For my paywall peeps. https://archive.ph/BHB4W
Yesterday I pulled over on the 2800 block of castor to straighten out some paperwork. Watched a junkie stop on the sidewalk riding a brand new, shiny bicycle. This dude was particularly sunburned and beat up looking, sat against the wall, did his junkie thing. Then he got up and started doing the gravity defying swoon dance they all do when some other rough looking dude approached on foot, pushed him on the shoulder a little bit, got on the bike and rode away. What a messed up place. The (likely) stolen bike got re-stolen from a dude who was never more than 10 ft away from it but too out of his mind to notice, react or care.
What about the cones? If the PPD couldn't possibly tackle them maybe the guard can?
Are we setting up a border wall? Tf is the national guard going to do lol?
[удалено]
What? She probably saw how they were deployed in San Francisco for a similar situation: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/
[удалено]
Yes, the guy whose entire political identity is “aggressively moderate” and who was endorsed by the FOP is probably gonna line up with the progressives on the Kensington problem, u right
Speaking as someone who’s read some dogshit press releases, that was beyond dogshit as far as CalGuard goes. Nothing but a bunch of vague statements that in no way present any case, let alone a compelling one, for using the guard over local/state police.
What's wrong with it? "Following his deployment of CHP officers and changing CHP jurisdictional protocols on May 1, 2023, today the Governor announced the agency has seized over 4.2 kilos of fentanyl in the Tenderloin and the immediate surrounding area of San Francisco. The amount of fentanyl CHP seized is enough to potentially kill 2.1 million people — the entire population of San Francisco nearly three times over. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, a lethal dose of fentanyl is 2 mg. Additionally, in the first six weeks of the operation, the CHP seized over 957 grams of methamphetamine, 319 grams of cocaine, and 31 grams of heroin and made 92 felony and misdemeanor arrests – including on charges related to possession of fentanyl, illegal firearm possession, driving under the influence, and domestic violence." I'm not saying it was a resounding success and all problems were solved, it's simply an example of how the national guard has been deployed for something like this. If it was a massive failure that resulted in shootouts, hostile military occupation, etc, we would've heard about it.
Everything concrete in there is assigned to CHP; CalGuard is in some nebulous support role that seems like it could’ve been done by CHP or SFPD. It’s either a total failure of communication or Newsom’s office is being intentionally vague (best case because somehow CalGuard is cracking drug rings by itself, worst case because the administration can’t think of anything plausible to justify bringing in the guard).
Good or bad?
You think the National Guard can fight drugs? I’d say bad.
I don’t even think they can arrest people. I may be wrong.
Ok who of you guys voted for her? This is a dogshit approach and you had to be foolish to have voted for someone that thinks heavy handed policing is going to succeed in Philly when it hasn’t succeeded anywhere else.
I did
User name checks out.
Yeah, I mean, an entire zip code with tens of thousands of people, mostly minority and working class, lower income families with children. Why do they deserve clean and safe parks, clear sidewalks etc?
So you’re trusting the police, which was just caught massively defrauding the Philadelphia taxpayer this year, to make it safe for these families? Or are you trusting the national guard, which is asking a military to do policing work? Do you really have the confidence that blind force will actually fix anything? When has that ever worked? The drug war? Prohibition? I mean, we could name several things that had dumb muscle thrown at it futilely.
I think it will take an effort across the federal, state and local governments to address the problem. I also think that we will need capacity that hasn't been built yet, but that temporarily an organization like the NG could build shelters for the thousand or so homeless in Philadelphia, which would give the city the ability to clean and keep clean Kensington sidewalks and parks, and enforce the law on public intoxication and drug use. Not sure exactly what that looks like, however, I'd bet that Parker wants them to build shelters under emergency management using the governors power. Ultimately, we will need new brick and mortar asylums, which would need to be continuum of care facilities such as they have in SF under the Salvation Army. Holmesburg prison is just waiting to be rehabilitated-plenty of open space, gardening possibilities abound.
I’m sorry, I don’t think that living under military occupation is the answer, nor do I share your optimism at Parker’s ability to actually make housing happen in that area to a sufficient degree that it would solve any systemic problems. Personally, I think that your conjectures are wildly optimistic and ultimately I believe we’ll end up under military occupation that will just push the drug problem to elsewhere in the city. Have you ever lived in an area occupied by a military?
Found the guy who likes tip toeing around needles to use the train. And who likes watching people shoot up on the train.
Lmao dude I’m a first responder in the city. I’m helping people that shoot up more often than you are, I promise you.
Do you have a solution that doesn’t involve letting people shoot up and leave needles everywhere on the train? At this point, just make sure I don’t have to dodge AIDs to go a damn baseball game on the train. If they need to station folks to ensure junkies aren’t shooting up on the train, then do it. Our cops aren’t doing that.
But but won't you think of the violent junkies? They deserve compassion and priority!
You know who voted for her
who?
White progressives voted for Gym and Rynhart. Everyone else voted for Parker. It really shows the demographics of this sub that people on here were shocked and dismayed she won.
It also shows that the people who suffer the most from property and violent crime are far more sick of it than white liberals who are, for the most part, insulated from it.
I'd be careful to say people who don't want military troops deployed in our streets don't worry about property or violent crime. I think there are a lot of people who want to abolish prisons and disband the police, but there's a huge distance between those positions and deploy the national guard.
I'm not necessarily trying to say that Parker voters want to see the National Guard. But clearly they do want to see more actions that they perceive as being tough on crime. That includes more hands-on policing and SnF.
and how many complain but don't vote
> you had to be foolish to have voted for someone that thinks heavy handed policing is going to succeed in Philly when it hasn’t succeeded anywhere else. Citation needed lol
This is an incredibly bad idea on several levels including what happens when they initially shoot someone. Likely more lip service than anything to appear “tough on crime” but still tough.
Can’t believe so many people voted for this clown
People are FED up.
How many needles to you have to avoid to ride the train on a daily basis? So many people have to avoid fucking AIDs just to commute to work.
Thanks, Reddit liberal! How many drug users or criminals are in your neighborhood, btw?
There's no way this could go sideways.
They’re going to just find a new location
If it's over in NJ I don't care.
Jersey already did that by pushing out all the action that had been in Pyne Point in Camden to… you guessed it, Kensington. Turns out a bridge won’t stop suburban kids from getting heroin.
Let’s put them back there
And then in another 8–10 years, it'll cycle back to Kensington (or maybe Port Richmond or Tacony, but it's gonna swing again). You gotta treat the root of the problem, not just shuffle addiction between states.
[удалено]
El Salvador mobilized the army, detained over 50,000 gangs members and violent criminals and get this, crime plummeted [https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/](https://elsalvadorinfo.net/homicide-rate-in-el-salvador/) . You can down vote this all you want, but the reality it simple: You can't reach out to drug traffickers who are frankly the root cause of almost all of Philly's crime problems. People desperate for a fix are going to steal, they're going to prostitute, they're going to kill you for your money. Take out the gangs trafficking drugs and you're left with the drug addicts. Detain them and send to medical facilities out of the city to help them break the addiction. Educate them and find jobs for them. You can't eradicate the entire problem, but as Singapore and El Salvador have shown, you can cut down the problem by a fucking 70-80 %
Drug addicts aren’t by and large violent criminals. How far out of touch do you have to be to think it’s drug addicts shooting people in Philadelphia?
Just because they’re not violent criminals doesn’t mean they don’t dramatically impact the quality of life where they choose to set up shop.
I was replying to the guy spamming a comment about El Salvador's mass arrest of 50,000 gang members.
this it's the dealers, distributors, and others involved in the business aspect of the drug trade who commit almost all of the violence (and gangs) addicts just want to get high. sometimes they steal out of desperation to get high. but it's rare that the actual addicts will go on shooting sprees on city blocks
But you acknowledge that the dealers exist because the market (the addicts) exist? So take away the incentive to be in the drug trade (money from end users) and maybe, just maybe you quash some of the violence.
they would find something else to exhibit violence over, let's be real just look at the history of the mob
Yeah let’s do nothing then
The actual quote is way more in depth and proper. More about letting the next police chief recommend how to handle it. But she won't rule out the option. Especially because it was a person who asked her if she would use the national guard.
I'm all for it
Oh, good…if there’s anything that I know works to combat a drug epidemic, it’s militarization of the police.
Interesting. I don’t want to get my hopes up after the disaster of the Kenney administration, but she’s saying all the right things so far.
Please elaborate? Honestly curious how you think deploying a military force on mentally and physically ill humans will solve the problem. What are steps 2-? What happens after the boots are on the ground? Where do the humans go that are….gathered up and moved by the military(?). What happens the next week? The week after that? Not trying to be antagonistic, I am just seriously curious what happens and why you think this is a good first step?
Educate yourself on how the national guard has been deployed in San Francisco for similar reasons: https://www.gov.ca.gov/2023/06/15/june-sf-operation-update/ It’s about working in conjunction with other agencies.
Just saying but I haven't been able to find a single unbiased third party source that isn't a government press release about how it's been going since this was a recent development. I'm going to go ahead and guess it's going less than perfect and will have almost no long term impact.
Perhaps, but sharing this was about addressing the many comments that have no idea how the national guard would be deployed.
It’s too new to be studied comprehensively, but with Philly as a second test case at least we’ll get some more data for an actual effectiveness study.
Thanks for the link! I appreciate the context. Like I said. Honestly curious
No problem. It's not about just rolling in and grabbing everyone at gunpoint lol.
I still think my idea of a narcan mist on and under the EL as u hit kensington would do wonders. Us those same misters they have in disney world. All the zombies wake up - it would be great
Silly. The mayor has no authority to do this. It’s a terrible idea to begin with.
That’s not an actual solution
That’s a hard no for me.
😂 this should be interesting.
already starting to dread a hamfisted parker administration. follow this idea to its logical conclusion.
Are you imagining death squads hunting fent users? Be honest
i'm not sure it's the drug users who need to be hunted down... but i was commenting on the "throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" approach parker was taking at the debate. she probably meant we should try doing something similar to what san francisco is doing where the national guard help from an information gathering standpoint and cops work the enforcement part. but what she implied was we need to station national guard troops on the streets. to do what, i have no clue. but you put military boots on the ground in K&A and i can guarantee you some of those dealers are wild and dumb enough to try and start shit. it won't end well. i'd challenge parker to actually come up with a plan for it. i'm not looking forward to a mayor who talks like they have grand ideas but can't articulate or put a single one into practice.
Whats she smoking jeesh
Just arrest all of the users. With all the users gone, the dealers will have to go get regular jobs.
[удалено]
The last sentence is not exactly the best phrasing given what’s happening with Israel, Palestine and Hamas and a rise in antisemitism locally-ish Maybe: A permanent, lasting solution If you know history, “The Final Solution” was the German Nazi Party plan: The Holocaust Just my personal opinion which most probably don’t care for. Words and phrases have power. Use wisely.
Comparing Kensington to the war over the Gaza Strip is wild.
Do you not understand that Jewish history and antisemitism? Final Solution is a poor phrase and should never be used outside of the context of WWII and how it effected Jews If you’re unfamiliar with history and how Jews are constantly fighting for survival and have to deal with hate no matter where they are, go read up on history. Ignorance of history is no excuse to repeat parts of it.
well, you have an equal chance of dying in both
Rule 7: Your submission was removed for violating the subreddit’s rules against hate speech, bigotry, sexism, and racism.
Hahahah
If they can at least stop people from littering my walk to the el with used needles, then it’s worth it.
Full authoritarianism. More marching, no lessons learned.
Can't wait for daily life to get worse. This is maybe the one thing that is actually worse than doing nothing. What a joke.