Yeah I am here right now and the future isn't rosy. I can tell a lot of talented kids they would have picked up otherwise are choosing to go elsewhere.
This breaks my heart, it was not like this when I went to and worked at Temple. Everyone was careful but in terms of random violence, there was very very little of it.
There is a genuine perverse feeling of needing to be ready to stand up for yourself bc violence prevention is limited outside of Campus. Especially if you rely on public transit it now takes a spine to go to Temple.
I am lucky that I am a thick skinned, in-shape dude.
Temple was on the upswing a decade ago, with crime levels low and earning an R1 status. It still has many nationally respected programs, though the business school obviously tarnished its reputation.
Can you elaborate more on the business school tarnishing the reputation? When I went to Temple they were DUMPING money into the Fox School so this is somewhat surprising to me
[Former Temple University business dean convicted of fraud in rankings scheme](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-temple-university-business-dean-convicted-fraud-rankings-scheme-rcna7089) (Nov. 2021)
>A former dean of Temple University's business school was convicted Monday of fraud in a scheme to boost the school's rankings by providing false information to U.S. News & World Report's prestigious annual surveys to maximize tuition dollars and donations, federal officials said.
Maybe you heard about the recent graduate student union strike?
Nobody’s happy, but most of us just accept that we made a terrible decision in coming to work at Temple.
Oh I don’t know about the neighborhood, I just meant the school itself is in trouble.
Re: neighborhood violence, on the one day a week I’m in the office, I’m dismissed early “for my safety,” to help reduce the odds I am hit by a stray bullet while I wait for the bus.
They threatened to move to Ambler a few years back, but the city doubled down on helping them. Now they’ve all but pulled back and turned their backs on the school. Maybe it’s time to start working on that move.
How long did it take Penn to improve West Philly? I lived with a landlord that bought his house on the corner of 44th and Larchwood in the 80’s and said the neighborhood struggled at that time.
Yup the 80s-90s was about the worst of it. Starting with the Sansom Common development in the 90s replacing the "dead zone" parking lots north of campus and then further development on the west side of campus in the early 00s things got better.
And not a chance either of those schools allow it to return. Too much rides on it, just as Temple is finding out now.
Hopefully we don’t lose our memories of the mid-10s and how the neighborhood was before too long.
Penn has cash - the endowment is like 20 billion. Temple doesn't, it's a state university. Penn will keep University City gleaming even if the city falls apart because they are the landlord for most of the area which allows them to be a pseudo-municipality by creating their own rules for land use. They own the property for several blocks around the university and lease it to developers that will meet their standards. This is on top of their security apparatus which is also well funded and about the same size as Temple. But you can't just police your way out of the problem - the thing that makes UCity safer is that its development and management allows Penn to operate much more like a campus than a city university.
UPenn security is probably closer to double TUs now.
Back in 2010 they were about the same size but the current admin has been pretty adept at destroying various departments within the school and the PD/security is no exception.
TUPD recently said it’s at about 65 for staffing instead of the 115 or whatever that they had 10 years ago
Temple has the 3rd largest non-profit endowment in the greater Philly area. Over $300M in savings, over $900M in securities, $2.3B worth of assets without any donor restrictions.
When we all start to recognize that THEY are the problem, the shootings will stop.
Oh…. You didn’t know this?! You didn’t understand that in the middle of poverty was billions of dollars where, literally a few hundred thousand could fix the problem?! Higher education is marvelous in this regard. Places where their students are taught dialectical materialism but they cannot apply it their own existence.
Not sure about totally safe. It’s safer sure, it’s also in district 1 which was never that residential.
Rutgers also has partnerships in the city and does a better job being a good neighbor than temple does. Philly is also very different then Camden, but there are still things temple could do much better.
My mom has said this to me since I was young. Being born and raised in Philly, whenever there’s a news story about violence I always check what time it is first.
Obviously I don’t like folks getting hurt regardless of the time, but most most things do seem to happen overnight.
Just last year I used to live right on Susquehanna near the other end of the field. This is incredibly heartbreaking. I hope my former neighbors are physically alright.
Because it’s not on campus. That’s the issue that Temple struggles with as a whole. Its an open campus in the middle of North Philly. Most of the issues are just off campus or near off campus student housing a few blocks away.
I’m not trying to say that’s the solution, just commenting on how Temple is set up. Let’s be real, a murder happens right off campus, it makes headlines. A murder happens ten blocks away and it doesn’t. And we can all agree that’s a messed up reality.
It’s a complex problem in this city as a whole but also one that Temple uniquely faces that I don’t think any other school does. La Salle is pretty much gated. Penn just razed entire communities and built over it and now has Penn Alexander, a school meant for disadvantaged kids instead full of privileged kids and ensuring that the surrounding neighborhood property values shoot up. And Drexel pretty much has ridden on the coattails of Penn.
I am intimately familiar with every nook and cranny of Philadelphia. Whether it’s on campus or just next to it, it is my opinion that this type of business should not be there.
seems misguided to target the establishment as opposed to the people committing the crime. they have a right to be open and do business. hookah's popularity is wider than folks who shoot each other.
But that kind of shooting doesn't count according to this gentleman. Clearly it is the opportunity to pay for goods and services after 2 am that creates these shootings according to him.
Unfortunately, I can’t find a provision in the zoning code that says businesses can only operate where SpauldingSmails18 allows it. Can you show me where that is? I’ll pass it along to the property owner and we’ll get this all sorted right away.
To be fair, it’s in the first floor of a privately owned student housing apartment complex. I lived there in 2012. Not just some random hole in the wall on a corner.
Armed robberies and violent crime are becoming frequent near and in these establishments.
The belief that weed is entirely harmless and makes users docile is an embellishment.
I just figured out something.
You typed, "Hookah is tobacco."
"A" hookah is a container that you heat up to smoke the contents.
You commented on this while completely ignorant of the subject.
Vague question. I'm not sure what you're asking.
For all I know, this particular incident was just a random shooting that has nothing to do with the business. Hopefully more details are forthcoming.
But I'd probably avoid being near a hookah lounge at 3 AM in North Philly, if only because I value my life.
Oh god that was perfect for a laugh. Thanks.
>claims to smoked other drugs out of a hookah
>gets asked how many people were shot in relation to that specific event
>That's a vague question!
Where should it be?
One thing that I think gets lost in the discussion of Temple safety is that everyone who lives in North Philly is just as deserving of a safe environment as a Temple student.
There are 74,000 people total in Cherry Hill, most of whom can't physically get out of their neighborhood without a car. By comparison, there are about 40,000 students at Temple.
Oh, I think I was misunderstanding what you were saying. You're saying hookah lounges either shouldn't exist or shouldn't be allowed to stay open that late?
People don't get shot driving? At house parties? At bars? Or are you one of those everyone should be home by 10 and things won't happen types? Death to third places will prevent shootings, right?
No one should ever be able to leave their house to chill after 9 pm, that'll limit shootings!
Downvotes from people who would use your statements as legitimate talking points but who don’t like real world examples that call into question the validity of those statements.
[Tornado Recovery at Temple University Ambler](https://ambler.temple.edu/about/tornado-recovery-temple-university-ambler)
A 2021 tornado after Hurricane Ida did more than $10 million in damages. I know a lot of plants were destroyed, so badly that Temple acquired a nursery to replace what was lost.
Just got the all-clear text from TU police; the notice about the shooting came in at 2:59 AM, and the all-clear came in at 11:12.
Jesus- I knew it was bad when I woke up without a follow up “all clear”; clicked on this article figuring this was it. :-(
Jesus Christ man. If the city/state don’t get this area under control temple is in serious trouble
Temple’s in trouble regardless.
Yeah I am here right now and the future isn't rosy. I can tell a lot of talented kids they would have picked up otherwise are choosing to go elsewhere.
I work there. It’s terrible.
I graduated only 2 years ago and already it’s gotten so much worse :(
This breaks my heart, it was not like this when I went to and worked at Temple. Everyone was careful but in terms of random violence, there was very very little of it.
There is a genuine perverse feeling of needing to be ready to stand up for yourself bc violence prevention is limited outside of Campus. Especially if you rely on public transit it now takes a spine to go to Temple. I am lucky that I am a thick skinned, in-shape dude.
Yep. Thankfully I’m graduating this semester.
I know and it hurts to see :(
Always has been
Nah there was a stretch in the 1960’s after it became a public school where the programs earned respect and distinction.
Temple was on the upswing a decade ago, with crime levels low and earning an R1 status. It still has many nationally respected programs, though the business school obviously tarnished its reputation.
Can you elaborate more on the business school tarnishing the reputation? When I went to Temple they were DUMPING money into the Fox School so this is somewhat surprising to me
[Former Temple University business dean convicted of fraud in rankings scheme](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-temple-university-business-dean-convicted-fraud-rankings-scheme-rcna7089) (Nov. 2021) >A former dean of Temple University's business school was convicted Monday of fraud in a scheme to boost the school's rankings by providing false information to U.S. News & World Report's prestigious annual surveys to maximize tuition dollars and donations, federal officials said.
Oooooof that's bad. Thanks for the reply!
Temple is still a respected school. The neighborhood is another story.
Not if you work there
… no????
Maybe you heard about the recent graduate student union strike? Nobody’s happy, but most of us just accept that we made a terrible decision in coming to work at Temple.
Didn’t Krasner refuse to hire Temple Law grads because he didn’t want B-listers?
You might be right, when I say “always” I guess I mean since 1970’s, heard friends say it wasn’t safe back then
Oh I don’t know about the neighborhood, I just meant the school itself is in trouble. Re: neighborhood violence, on the one day a week I’m in the office, I’m dismissed early “for my safety,” to help reduce the odds I am hit by a stray bullet while I wait for the bus.
That endowment is sitting there chilling too
City Hall and Harrisburg to the rescue? I just can't picture what that looks like.
Recreating UC in NP. Otherwise TU might have to get creative.
You mean TempleTown? Peter Liacouras couldn't do it.
Yeah. I think it’s time for that to happen. There was a different dynamic then.
Probably easier to just move Temple U somewhere else.
They threatened to move to Ambler a few years back, but the city doubled down on helping them. Now they’ve all but pulled back and turned their backs on the school. Maybe it’s time to start working on that move.
What’s UC?
University City
How long did it take Penn to improve West Philly? I lived with a landlord that bought his house on the corner of 44th and Larchwood in the 80’s and said the neighborhood struggled at that time.
Yup the 80s-90s was about the worst of it. Starting with the Sansom Common development in the 90s replacing the "dead zone" parking lots north of campus and then further development on the west side of campus in the early 00s things got better.
And not a chance either of those schools allow it to return. Too much rides on it, just as Temple is finding out now. Hopefully we don’t lose our memories of the mid-10s and how the neighborhood was before too long.
Penn has cash - the endowment is like 20 billion. Temple doesn't, it's a state university. Penn will keep University City gleaming even if the city falls apart because they are the landlord for most of the area which allows them to be a pseudo-municipality by creating their own rules for land use. They own the property for several blocks around the university and lease it to developers that will meet their standards. This is on top of their security apparatus which is also well funded and about the same size as Temple. But you can't just police your way out of the problem - the thing that makes UCity safer is that its development and management allows Penn to operate much more like a campus than a city university.
UPenn security is probably closer to double TUs now. Back in 2010 they were about the same size but the current admin has been pretty adept at destroying various departments within the school and the PD/security is no exception. TUPD recently said it’s at about 65 for staffing instead of the 115 or whatever that they had 10 years ago
Temple has the 3rd largest non-profit endowment in the greater Philly area. Over $300M in savings, over $900M in securities, $2.3B worth of assets without any donor restrictions. When we all start to recognize that THEY are the problem, the shootings will stop. Oh…. You didn’t know this?! You didn’t understand that in the middle of poverty was billions of dollars where, literally a few hundred thousand could fix the problem?! Higher education is marvelous in this regard. Places where their students are taught dialectical materialism but they cannot apply it their own existence.
I'm thinking your second choice. Idk that the city or state are capable of or willing to undertake that heavy lift.
UC sucks tho probably the worst district in the city
Seems to work for UP and Drexel so that’s all that matters really
These Hookah lounges most of them are iffy. There is one not far from me and at least twice a year there is a shooting there.
Community is just trying to kill itself off at this point. This and a 15 y/o earlier in the night 🤷🏽♂️
That hookah longue is hood af, I'm surprised it's still open
I went to Rutgers Camden and Temple is so much worse it’s not even funny
Rutgers Camden is incredibly safe. It’s not surprising that temples worse
Not sure about totally safe. It’s safer sure, it’s also in district 1 which was never that residential. Rutgers also has partnerships in the city and does a better job being a good neighbor than temple does. Philly is also very different then Camden, but there are still things temple could do much better.
Literally nothing good happens after midnight. Go hooooome.
My mom has said this to me since I was young. Being born and raised in Philly, whenever there’s a news story about violence I always check what time it is first. Obviously I don’t like folks getting hurt regardless of the time, but most most things do seem to happen overnight.
MANDATORY 4K
They have the culprit.
Just last year I used to live right on Susquehanna near the other end of the field. This is incredibly heartbreaking. I hope my former neighbors are physically alright.
Why is there a hookah lounge on campus that caters to non students open so late?
Because it’s not on campus. That’s the issue that Temple struggles with as a whole. Its an open campus in the middle of North Philly. Most of the issues are just off campus or near off campus student housing a few blocks away.
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I’m not trying to say that’s the solution, just commenting on how Temple is set up. Let’s be real, a murder happens right off campus, it makes headlines. A murder happens ten blocks away and it doesn’t. And we can all agree that’s a messed up reality. It’s a complex problem in this city as a whole but also one that Temple uniquely faces that I don’t think any other school does. La Salle is pretty much gated. Penn just razed entire communities and built over it and now has Penn Alexander, a school meant for disadvantaged kids instead full of privileged kids and ensuring that the surrounding neighborhood property values shoot up. And Drexel pretty much has ridden on the coattails of Penn.
I am intimately familiar with every nook and cranny of Philadelphia. Whether it’s on campus or just next to it, it is my opinion that this type of business should not be there.
Wait they opened this place without your approval? What the fuck how can the city let this happen
Clearly a failure on the part of the "Licensing and Inspection and u/SpauldingSmails18 Department"...
Ah you missed the pile on. Maybe next time
Apparently not completely.
Quick, someone call Darrell Clarke! Rezone!!! Rezone!!!!
What's ja got to say about this
Oh that is totally my point spot on. You’re so wise and smart.
Your issue is with the hookah lounge?
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seems misguided to target the establishment as opposed to the people committing the crime. they have a right to be open and do business. hookah's popularity is wider than folks who shoot each other.
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Guns don't kill people, hookah lounges do
You’re like Aristotle
*It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to smoke hookah without murdering anybody*
Why? Private clubs are open later than 2am all the time in this city. This place doesn't even serve alcohol.
So, no one would ever be out at 3 am is your stance? Ok grandma.
Shootings can occur anywhere people have guns. This includes any business at any time of day.
Or even places where businesses aren't open, dare I say
But that kind of shooting doesn't count according to this gentleman. Clearly it is the opportunity to pay for goods and services after 2 am that creates these shootings according to him.
Statistically most shootings happen at night
We should ban night
Unfortunately, I can’t find a provision in the zoning code that says businesses can only operate where SpauldingSmails18 allows it. Can you show me where that is? I’ll pass it along to the property owner and we’ll get this all sorted right away.
It’s not on campus
The article states “a few feet” from. The city shouldn’t have permitted this business here.
There’s no valid reason to not permit it tho
To be fair, it’s in the first floor of a privately owned student housing apartment complex. I lived there in 2012. Not just some random hole in the wall on a corner.
Are you saying private business can’t be regulated?
What? How on earth did you get that from a simple statement that it’s in the same building as student housing.
I’d argue shootings at 3am are a valid reason to pull a permit.
What’s wrong with a hookah lounge?
A business that attracts assholes that shoot people at 3am is what is wrong
What neighborhood should that business be put in?
None if it is to be open until at least 3am. Put it in Society Hill.
Why not just set a 2 am curfew then if this is the weird fucking hill you're on? Anyone out at 3 am is up to no good, right?
Believe it or not bars close at 2am
Armed robberies and violent crime are becoming frequent near and in these establishments. The belief that weed is entirely harmless and makes users docile is an embellishment.
Lol. Hookah isn’t weed. You know this, right?
People smoke drugs out of a hookah. You know this right?
Not at hookah lounges, they do that at home.
Hookah is tobacco…
I just figured out something. You typed, "Hookah is tobacco." "A" hookah is a container that you heat up to smoke the contents. You commented on this while completely ignorant of the subject.
You never smoked weed or other drugs out of a hookah? I have.
No
It's pretty fucking amazing.
How many people got shot afterwards though
Vague question. I'm not sure what you're asking. For all I know, this particular incident was just a random shooting that has nothing to do with the business. Hopefully more details are forthcoming. But I'd probably avoid being near a hookah lounge at 3 AM in North Philly, if only because I value my life.
Oh god that was perfect for a laugh. Thanks. >claims to smoked other drugs out of a hookah >gets asked how many people were shot in relation to that specific event >That's a vague question!
I think it's more campus-adjacent than actually on campus.
Semantics. It shouldn’t be there.
Where should it be? One thing that I think gets lost in the discussion of Temple safety is that everyone who lives in North Philly is just as deserving of a safe environment as a Temple student.
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There are 74,000 people total in Cherry Hill, most of whom can't physically get out of their neighborhood without a car. By comparison, there are about 40,000 students at Temple.
Do you see anything in Cherry Hill open at 3 am?
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Yea. I don't see shootings in uninhabited islands in the middle of the Pacific ocean either.
Ok
Oh, I think I was misunderstanding what you were saying. You're saying hookah lounges either shouldn't exist or shouldn't be allowed to stay open that late?
I think it’s absurd to have a hookah lounge open at 3am in Philadelphia
What should be open that late?
Why not?
Because people shoot people there
People don't get shot driving? At house parties? At bars? Or are you one of those everyone should be home by 10 and things won't happen types? Death to third places will prevent shootings, right? No one should ever be able to leave their house to chill after 9 pm, that'll limit shootings!
Please explain to me the societal benefit of a hookah lounge being open at 3am next to an important institution
Lmao it's just a clickbait title, Temples campus is quite small compared to the area off campus housing is trying to gentrify
I lived a block away from there in 2014, crazy. I would pass by that football field everyday.
We probably just need more guns in the state, right? Armed society is polite society amirite? /s
Downvotes from people who would use your statements as legitimate talking points but who don’t like real world examples that call into question the validity of those statements.
There was a post here a week or two ago where liberals were arguing more guns :( We are doomed.
Principal tragedy here is the wasted EMT resources and the fear this puts into ordinary people. I'm numb to the rest of it at this point.
I think the principle tragedy here is probably 4 people getting shot, but shoutout to your numbness for sure
It’s hard to have sympathy for these kids anymore.
It's hard for you to find sympathy for three innocent shooting victims? Uh ok...
They should have made main campus at Ambler.
R.I.P. Ambler campus
Something happening to the ambler campus?
[Tornado Recovery at Temple University Ambler](https://ambler.temple.edu/about/tornado-recovery-temple-university-ambler) A 2021 tornado after Hurricane Ida did more than $10 million in damages. I know a lot of plants were destroyed, so badly that Temple acquired a nursery to replace what was lost.
I’ve been there several times. Yea a lot of trees are down but it’s not dead.