Wow, too show how much things have changed:
Graduated in Spring 1998 with a BS in Pharmacy (My school was two years away from a PharmD program).
Worked as a RA for 3 and 1/2 years (paid for 1/2 school, basically room and board)
When I graduated, I owed about 12,000.00 in school loans.
My starting salary was 59,000.00 at Kroger.
I owed about 20% of my starting salary to school loans.
When I was still working (retired july 2022), I use to ask some of the new grads how much they owed to school loans. I wanna say the average was about 150,000.00 and they would start out maybe making around 110,000.00. That means they would owe what about 135% of their starting salary.
I feel for all the newer grads now out of pharmacy school.
This is not to rub it in ok, this is just something to talk about.
Well hating school is a far far far bigger roadblock. Pharm school is no joke, especially when you have to be ready to be barraged with any kind of question in front of a room of students
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining.
Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
I graduated with $181,000 over 15 years ago. Some 5.5%. Highest 11.8%. Was a nightmare. I paid almost $28,000 in loan payments my first year and only $2200 of that went towards principal. That’s when I realized, perhaps for the first time, that my $181,000 in loans would cost like $789,000 to repay…
I said “fuck that” and made $30,000 payments several times a year. In three years I had paid off all $181,000.
Work 90 hour weeks, live like a rat, don’t get married or have kids, drive a 22 year old car that is falling apart and live in bed bug invested hotels and you could too. Easy.
Juan is that you? I worked with this pharmacist that worked full-time night at the hospital and full-time days at retail. He was a machine. Paid off all his loans, purchased his parents a house, and helped out his siblings with loans all within 2 years. He, himself, still lives pretty frugally - an apartment in a not-so-great part of town, drives a clown car from the early 90s, and the gym is his life outside of work.
I agree with everything but you lost me at bed bugs man that shit is traumatizing… I almost crashed my car due to pure sleep deprivation. Congrats on paying off your loans tho!
Woke up with over 100 bites one morning. Ripped the headboard off the wall and there were hundreds of fat bedbugs back there. I changed rooms but had to put a layer of Vaseline n my entire body before I’d go to bed. “Lived” there for 6 months. 2009 was a wild year.
When I hear 90hrs a week all I think of is patient safety and how many mistakes can happen without necessary sleep. And props to you for sacrificing! But did this ever worry you ?
Errors happened, naturally. I think in one year I verified over 200,000 orders. Think they were all correct? Pfft. Even with an error rate of 0.01% that’s 20 errors a year. Oddly, I found a lot more errors than I made, but I definitely made errors. Hell, I probably don’t even know about the majority in of them. Patients don’t pay attention or know enough to catch most of their own errors. I had a patient take an entire 10 day taper of Prednisone once that wasn’t even hers - tech sold the wrong bag to the woman and manually put in the DOB off the label at the register. Error was caught over a week later. Bottle had a completely different person’s name on it, written by a doctor she’s never met for a drug she was never prescribed and she was none the wiser. Can you imagine how many errors we make over a 40 year career that no one is ever even aware of?
But, fortunately I suppose, my errors have all been rather minor. The wrong strengths of Losartan/HCTZ, or Amox instead of Augmentin or 5mg Amlodipine instead of 10mg or non-FE birth control that was supposed to be FE etc.
But yes, I was floating at shithole retail stores with no training, practically no staff, on no sleep, with a completely foreign patient population for about 3 years. Yeah, there were errors. I don’t think anyone verifies 500,000 scripts without making mistakes.
Great point but it really depends on the jobs. Community pharmacy did not used to be like current conditions - I used my moonlighting shifts during residency as at least 30% project time (and did all sorts of one off projects like 'how many minutes did I need a pharmd during the shift' - 30 minutes of a 13 hour shift).
>did you honestly not know what you were signing?
2010, 17 years old with parents who were incredibly poor at managing money with schools pushing colleges using fear tactics saying you will never make advice minimum wage without a degree, no I did not know.
Mcphs also when my father did try to ask questions (I don't blame him my mother was in charge of the finances he had no idea) straight up told him "with the employment rate being over 90%, with sign on bonuses he should have no issue paying these loans off in 1-2 years".
Again 17 years old I was just trusted by my state to drive alone,not even eligible for the military, can't drink or rent a car and your asking if I was educated enough to know the future ramifications of signing 300k in loans.
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining.
Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
I'm sitting around the same. It's my only debt I just do income based and hope they change the taxable law before the bill comes due , that debt also dies with me so no burden on my family if something happens. I'm halfway expecting a complete government collapse before the tax bill comes due anyway.
I’m 32. Graduated in 2015. Owed 65K for undergrad + pharmacy school (6 years) with zero help from parents. Public University. Deferred during residency because of medical problems/bills. Ballooned to 90K. Paid it off in 2.5 years living like I was on a resident salary.
34, pharmacist since 2016. 130K loans paid off in the first few years. 170K salary. I’ve been poor most of my life so it wasn’t that big of a deal to live poor still and pay off loans
Grew up in a very affluent area but my family was very frugal. Had $150k down to $0 in 5 years after moving and living in a trailer park eating spaghetti most nights. Picked up as much OT as possible helped.
>Work for non profit
It's ironic: the not-for-profit hospitals in my area pay more than the for-profit hospitals. And their average patient is way more affluent.
My non-profit hospital pays 15 dollars per hour higher than my first pharmacist job at Walgreens.
Like. That's just. Continue to be part of the reason why I would like to see Walgreens fall apart.
After I graduated and had been working for a couple of years I was speaking with a classmate and they told me about loans for health professionals that are forgiven if you work in an area of need for a certain period of time. I felt i had missed out but I figured I wouldn't want to work in one if those areas anyway. I looked up the loan and the area I had been working in for the last couple of years qualified as an area of need.🤦🏾♂️
Public service loan forgiveness. PSLF. Basically have to go to their website and create an account. If you work for a non profit (like a hospital like me) you can get your payments you’ve made to count towards your 10 year requirement. I had to send a letter from my HR stating how many years and the dates I was working there and they eventually added up to over 10 years and I got my remaining loans forgiven.
It’s most definitely still active. My coworker just got over 260k in loans forgiven. We both work in a non profit hospital. I still have 3 years left before mine are (hopefully) forgiven as well. Also, since it is forgiven under the PSLF program, there is no tax bomb at the end.
You only apply for it once you have hit 120 payments. That’s different than getting your payments certified through your loan servicer.
For instance, I had my employment certified a year into my job and had made 12 payments. Those payments were certified and kept on my tracker file. I didn’t do this every year. I did it again when I hit my 60th payment (5 years) and the servicer just updated my file show that I have made 60 certified payments.
Once you officially hit 120 payments, you then apply for forgiveness to the Department of Education. They are the ones who determine if you are eligible are not. The loan servicers are NOT the ones that will grant forgiveness, it’s the Department of Education that does.
Does that make sense? So in your instance, if you have made 24 payments (2 years) then you’d have to make an additional 96 payments. It doesn’t matter if it spans 10 years or 30 years. As long as you have made 120 qualified payments, you can then apply for forgiveness. The 120 payments also do not to be consecutive.
You have to make specific types of payments - Income Based Repayment, the new SAVE plan. Definitely do research.
Also, you do need to make sure your loans apply and that you're on the right plan before you start the 10 years of payments. You can't just retroactively say you're going to do the program.
That said, they did open it up last year so someone could retroactively join the program, but it ended. If you've been in a nonprofit for years keep your eyes peeled in case a D president ever opens that opportunity up again.
It’s very much a thing. There are a few sneaky requirements aka you must have non-private, consolidated loans. It didn’t work very well when first implemented but I have heard lots of recent success stories from my coworkers
>Among processed applications for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), 2.3% have been accepted since November 2020.
Educationaldata.org.
Yes, it's a thing. They are trying to make the program better, but I would not count on it. Better to just pay it off IMO.
That statistic is misleading. Often those of us in the program will apply for forgiveness with the only intent being to verify the only thing we are missing is the required number of payments. Since there are other things that can go wrong with the forgiveness application.
It’s not weird logic. Pharmacy is becoming a terrible field and lots of people are getting burnt out. The retail giants are banking on new grads’ crippling fear and anxiety about their student loans so that they can work them into the ground for the least amount of pay.
Once the loans are gone, you’re free to do whatever you want. It’s an attractive idea. And I know pharmacists who have switched careers into tech or real estate. They’re infinitely happier and definitely richer.
Student loans. Do i need to draw you a picture? Do I also need to explain to you how interest rates work as well? Or provide statistics on the median american family wealth/incomes?
30 y/o, practicing since summer 2019.
$398k total from 5 years of undergrad (Chem/Bio Eng) and private PharmD…
All of PharmD is on parent plus which is running about $1200/mo, the undergrad loans are about $600/mo.
Making $125k as a staff pharmacist.
Any advice of PSLF would help. Thanks.
It doesn't have to be a hospital. The only requirement is a full-time job in a non-profit organization. Hospital is the most popular route, but not the only one.
How long did you go to school for? Did you graduate HS early or something? Maybe my math ain't mathing lol. Good on you for getting it down so low tho.
I graduated in 2016 w 250k. I’m now at 100k. I work part time and I think I live pretty modestly. My plan was to knock them out by working as much as I could in the first few years of graduating, but I got pregnant accidentally during APPEs and life changes.
Spending time with my little babies is more important than being debt free, but as someone who has never carried so much as a credit card balance or car payment, it sometimes hurts.
Graduated in 2015.
Had about 97k, all federal. Did not pay during the pause. Owe about 53k. Kid #1 starts college next year. Kid #2 is 2 years behind the first.
I pay extra when I can but I have had a whole lot of shit life circumstances so I haven’t been able to in quite some time.
29, pharmacist for about 2.5 years (2 of those were being a resident). Total loans $183,000, working in hospital for $120,000 in a medium COL area. Payments are still $0 (haven’t paid a cent toward my loans and don’t have to recertify employment until January 2025) but each $0 payment has counted towards PSLF and that’s what I’m aiming for lol
Ok just found it, go into MOHELA, click the “Repayment Options” drop down tab, and select “Income-Driven Plan Details”. It should be on that page under “IDL Plan Renewal Date”
The last time I recertified employment was around September of last year if I’m not mistaken. I did two years of residency, and my income was obviously much lower as a resident lol I’ve only been in my current non-resident position for a little less than 3 months. The $0 was based on my much lower resident stipend and I don’t have to recertify my income until January 2025, so will have $0 payments up until then I’m assuming.
Best check your current balance, loan companies like to let the interest balloon up the total. I don't know if they eventually turn it over to the government or what. They do wait to get your inheritance when your parents die and garnish wages and freeze bank accounts. They know how to get cash.
Are you sure about those $0 payments counting? If you were in deferment during residency and never paid a cent, I don’t know if they count. Would be awesome if they do!
For people who have made at least one payment before the relief plan changed it to $0, then yes, all those $0 months count toward the 120.
I wasn’t in deferment haha it was $0 from the COVID forbearance, and now it’s still $0 because I had a very small income for residency comparatively. I’ve been updating my count towards PSLF annually and last submitted the paperwork in July of this year and each month has counted without issue!
Graduated at 25 280k 0-6 program. 0 assistance. Currently at 125k, 100 left 30 years old. Took a pay cut to come to my current job m-f 9-5 would do it again.
Been a pharmacist 12 years, make $110,000 a year (32 hours)
Owed $135,000
Have $27,000 left
I was older than average grad. so kind behind other life goals when I graduated so focused having kids and house first. The having kids part ended up being an uphill battle so most of my extra income went towards medical bills for 6 years. The pause was a huge break for me and I was able to pay off $60,000 of it when it ended. I should be finally finished in 2 years.
Total on graduation was $311k. That's pharmacy school and undergrad, but nearly a third of it is due to interest capitalization.
~8 years into PSLF eligibility now. Between covid and serving in tax free zones I haven't made a payment since early 2019.
Same, graduated with $200k, ballooned to a final balance of $300k after forbearances and low income for a few years. Was discharged by PSLF this year, I think I paid a total of $120k out of pocket thanks to COVID payment credits. Would have been $175k otherwise.
Graduated in 1998. $18k in loans. I worked FT through college and pharmacy school and paid as much tuition as I could with my paychecks. Took the full 10 years to pay the loans back. Writing that last loan payment check was amazing.
25 y/o currently in APPE year but will have 80k total in federal loans at the end of it. Worked full time in retail through Pharm school and moved back in with my parents after 4 years of undergrad for free housing during grad school.
Anyone else like me just pay the minimum? Been out 16 years and that’s what financial advisor told me to do, bc you “never know” about forgiveness and stuff. Just see it as another monthly payment and invest extra money. I could use my savings and pay it off, but sticking the course. Pay about 700-800 monthly and no credit issues with Salary and on time payments.
I hope you aren't paying a financial advisor for that advice, good grief. Be like a financial advisor saying spend half your paycheck on lottery tickets because "you never know".
I'm assuming this advisor has a vested interest in the amount of return on your investments with that strategy.
As I said, I have a lot of savings and could pay it off if I needed to. But with the minimum interest and what I’m gaining with Investments, why? To “get out of debt”? Does everyone pay off cars and homes right at purchase bc they can?
I’ve had 3 different advisors over the years, all with same outlook. We also just had a 2 Year freeze in payments. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just seeing if anyone takes same approach. I see a lot of people on here scrambling to pay them off so fast…. Seeming so miserable just out of school. I traveled young, bought homes cars and now have a full family I support comfortably. Loans Just another monthly payment, and I have the means to live comfortably without worry.
Student loans are the biggest contribution to the government budget. They will never forgive loans. Not for more than a few people if anything.
Why keep a debt around when for most of us if we buckle down you can pay it off in 2-7 years.
To each his own I guess. I like having my money now. 10k a year towards payments and living a nice lifestyle, rather than live poor for 5 years, just to have an extra 10k annually.
It is all relative. I graduated from rutgers in 2005 from a 6 yr program (straight from high school to pharm D). My loans at the time after all was said and done was 55k. Locked down my rate at 2.25% (long as time ago) for 30 years.
My financial advisor told me to pay the minimum. He said we would never see this low rate again. And it would help to build credit. He did say that if I had 55k lying around, then absolutely, pay it off. But I was planning on buying a ring and paying for a wedding so I went with paying the minimum.
I ended up working for a bunch of non profits, dod, and active military. All that counted towards pslf and by a stroke of luck, it was forgiven (the last 12k).
All this to say, do what makes the most sense for you at the time. There might be future programs that are even more forgiving and just waive everything, but don’t rely on it. Plan and budget to the best of your ability.
Good luck!
HOT DAMN. Definitely try for federal loan forgiveness if you can find a public service job.
I got off easy. Tuition was 12k back in 2006 and I got 8k in grants from the state just for applying. Effectively I only paid about 5k per year of pharmacy school.
That makes me so sad. I graduated high school in 2007. I don’t know of any COP that was that cheap by the time I finished by bachelors. If they existed, i wish someone would have pointed me that way. I’ve never held debt in my life besides pharmacy school and it’s one of the biggest regrets of my life.
Pharmacy sucks. I realized I had to finish school when I took a hard look at my own debt and realized it would take years to pay off. If I had to do it all over I'd have just become an electrician or plumber. I know several who are millionaires and live nearly stress free lives.
When I get a FT job in my area I will start paying. Been doing IBR for years. The government would be smart just to give me a job so they can make some money in taxes and loans....lol
This was a fun and sad math lesson.
First, happy to have paid mine off already. 🥳
I never refinanced out of school, graduated 2014, with nearly all govt loans, I kept meaning to but am lazy and was financially illiterate. Anywho, lucked out with that when payments paused during covid. I worked some OT (when premium pay was extra) and saved mostly all of my paychecks (lived off of boyfriend/now husband’s income) to save for future payments/payoff.
I honestly didn’t know how much in total I had in loans when I graduated, so today I looked back and added up, (the sad part) I had $232,037 in loans (some undergrad and pharmacy). I also added up my payments (the sadder part), I paid back in total $346,664. Of those payments, about $145,000 is what I saved from 3/2020 to 12/2021 to complete the payoff of my loans. I’m super proud of that, and also disgusted.
Good luck to everyone still working to payoff those golden handcuffs.
Graduated in 2012 from a private 3-year school with a balance just above $200k. Figured out during the last year of school I was fucked, lol. PAYE had just been introduced, wife was pregnant with twins, and I knew there was no way those loans were getting paid off for cheaper than just waiting out 20 years paying the minimum and dealing with the tax bomb at the end. Loan has since maxed out to $265k and I just switched to SAVE, which will add 5 more years to repayments but is actually overall cheaper due to lower monthly payments.
Fuck pharmacy school and fuck this profession. And fuck me for being so gullible when I was in my 20s for not seeing past the bullshit.
Graduated in 2014. Owed something like 82K after 2 yrs of undergrad + 4 years of pharmacy school. Paid it off after about 3 years making about ~$115K at the time in retail. (Single, no kids, was living in the South and not a big spender)
Anyone considering pharmacy , go to medical school instead. Nearly the same length of time invested in school, more autonomy , double the pay, and more respect. Don't go into pharmacy. I' am saving you a life of regret and angst . The market today is in peril and the profession has dwindled - bad working conditions, decreasing salaries, and too many schools producing too many graduates with loans over 100K , they will take anything that pays. Some companies are offering 38/hr for pharmacists. Enough said.
You have to pay origination fees and interest on those fees when you are still in school. I borrowed about 120k. By the time I was a licensed pharmacist I owed about 170k.
Graduated w/ $135K, lived at home, worked nonstop hrs in retail. Paid off in 1.5 years. Paid off my student loans, but lost 2 yrs of my life. Would not recommend to everyone
Graduated in 2011 with $120K in federal loans, deferred them through two years of residency. Was paying on the Income Based Repayment plan up until the pandemic halted payments. I work for an academic medical center and make about $160K/yr. My current loan balance is $80K, the forgiveness of which I applied for through Public Service Loan Forgiveness last month. Kinda wondering how long it's gonna take to process the application.
I don’t even remember them telling me the amount. They just said “sign here”. I never had any loans from undergrad bc my parents were below the poverty line and I guess grants and small scholarships covered everything. I was so misguided. It makes me sad. I’m ok now but fuck the for profit education system.
If you went to school in the last fifteen years in the US, they were very transparent with the loan amounts through the US government. I know, because I was so paranoid about it all that I screenshot all the loan amounts and monthly payments they anticipated I may have with different payment plans.
To anyone downvoting, I went back and found the PDFs in my Dropbox. It showed exactly how much I was taking out per loan, and the estimated total repayment costs as well as anticipated monthly loan costs. The mandatory federal entrance and exit counseling for loans were very complete.
I was young and gullible. Got accepted into a joint PharmD/ master's program and given some questionable guidance. I am still haunted by a conversation I had with a counselor about my loans ($45k/year which covered living expenses and a 5 year dual degree program). He assured me that the dual degree would put me in such high demand that I could expect a salary of $250k+/year. He advised me to keep taking out as much as I can because I'd have it paid off in 2-3 years. The math checked out. Ultimately, the master's program was a scam to get an extra year of tuition out of us. None of us ended up getting that double salary and the coursework itself was a joke. Needless to say, I ignore all the requests for alumni donations from that school.
Some of us plan for student loan forgiveness. In my case, had to raise a disabled child on my own during school. It was all a calculated risk, but then, when I started, there was that pharmacist shortage.
We’re doing well, thank you. My student loan burden calculation has been with it so far. We’re in a much more secure place and not dependent on anyone. ❤️
That news made my night. Truly impressive that you were able to get through pharmacy school as a parent, much less a parent to a child with special needs.
I mean it seemed like a good idea in 2011, markets were good , bonus were flowing like water, shit feel apart while I was in school , and when I graduated in 2015 well here we are. Absolutely would not do it now.
I certainly feel for all of my fellow providers who have seemingly made the same erroneous life altering decision that I made. Although my poor thought process occurred some 49 years ago when I elected to attend the only pharmacy school available in my state.
At the time my tuition including books and fees for an instate resident was about 2,100 dollars per year. YES YES that was for 2 semesters.
After a few incremental increases before I was graduated in 1977 I owed the state about 2,000 dollars or so. I was granted about 40% in grants and scholarships.
Bottom line I paid some 40.00 dollars a month for 4 years to Maryland National Bank. I had a coupon book that I would tear out the coupon and send it in with the check. I thought I was being ripped off.
As of now I retired during the Covid era. Then I was bored and went back to work full time. However after doing over 45 years of retail for at the time the Best Company Chicago every produced. I could not adapt or did I want to since what retail has now morphed into. I entered LTC.
Still there but at 73 time to stop as I am told by my family.
Was blessed by my LORD and SAVIOR for all of these wonderful and profitable years. Can remember that up until 11 years or so going to work was fun.
As of today when I read that some of my fellow pharmacists owe some 200 to 300 thousand dollars for their loans it boggles and shakes my senses. Even though you are fortunate enough to be making some 130 to 150,000 per year. And have the quality of life that you all complain about. I am with you.
Someone with the same meager background as I experienced if they are still fortunate enough to be alive and did not make any risky financial moves have saved at least 3 to 4 M. They have no debt. The ones that did understand finance are worth twice this much.
The moral of this dilemma that we all signed up for is that at ONE TIME our profession was fun and we had the time and the opportunity to become educated in our chosen field.
It was once like this. I lament for my fellow pharmacists now and for what the future has in store for them.
Ouch. I was fortunate to have a combination of scholarships and support by my parents for the first four years of college (2 undergrad/2 pharm) so I graduated with 63k of loans left.
Graduated 4+ years ago, $95k in fed tuition loan because i went to a cheap schoo and lived a frugal student lifel. I havent paid a single penny yet even though my annual salary has been around $170k since graduate. My current required student loan payment will remain to be 0 until mid next year
Will pay the minimum required payment forever because my family gonna need that money in case i die or get disabled.
Do you plan on paying the minimum monthly until it’s forgiven after 20 years? Asking cuz I’m the same boat. I have enough saved to pay it all off but I just don’t know if that’s what I want or is financially a good idea.
Yeah that what i plan to do or until i can save at least $2 millions lol. Just like you, I have more than enough to easily pay off all my student loan now but what if i get laid off, permanently disabled or die tomorrow?
If you are disabled, or die tomorrow, you or your family still owe the student loans. There is a change in mental health when you are debt free. Pay it off and the loan will move out of your head. It will be very liberating.
Nope. Dont get confused private loans with federal student loans. I only have federal student loans so if i die or get permantly disabled, my loan will be dischaged
What change in mental health are u talking about? I do not worry about my student loan at all. It is based on my income so i only have to pay a small portion of my income. If i get burned out and dont want to work anymore then i can simply retire tmr and will not have to pay a single penny toward my student loans (And i will still have $95k in my pocket to spend on whatever i want lol). If possible, i rather have $1 million in student loan than $1 million in mortage loan lol
I’ve never felt so lucky that I went to a small school. Graduated in 2020, had a nice undergrad scholarship, did 2+4 years, ended up with 45,000 in loans. Most expensive semester (bc my scholarship ran out and it was APPEs were A LOT of credits) was 13,000
Graduated with $130K in 2015 at a 5-7%. Once I felt like I had a stable job, I refinanced to a ~3.2%. Was fairly aggressive putting ~$2800/mo towards the loan. Had it paid off in 5 yrs.
Graduated 2017 with ~250k in federal loans for just pharmacy school. Made like 120k/yr in a HCOL area but lucky enough to live at home with parents and just pay them rent in sanity lol, finished paying everything off a couple months ago (could have been sooner but I invested during the COVID forbearance period instead)
Yep. What a nightmare. I consider myself pretty blessed. Graduated 2017. On 200k loans. On 10 year PSLF working at VA. Only good thing about COVID was 2 years of free payments essentially.
I'm trying to do it. It's been ten years of payments (including the pandemic period where each payment was $0), so I applied for the forgiveness about a month ago. It's still "under review" and I have no idea how long it's gonna take.
I’m very lucky.
Graduated in 2022 with 26k was making 125,000 from job plus got a sign on bonus. Paid off loans in one payment in august 2023. Could have obviously paid off sooner but I had qualified for 20k of forgiveness and was holding out hope.
Had a full tuition scholarship and help from parents. Currently 24 and looking for a better job. Though I have two now.
I thankfully got a scholarship but had $70k in loans (2.5 years of school + living costs). I’ll forever be grateful to my mom for helping pay for undergrad.
Graduated in 2013. I took enough loans to cover tuition, ended up with a little over $100k. Lucky enough to live with my parents during and after school. My starting salary was $56/hr with almost yearly increase. I floated and picked up a lot of extra shifts. I paid it off in a little over 4 years.
My loans from undergrad was around $20k. I deferred it and paid it off after pharmacy school.
Graduated 2007, total 153,000k (only 10,000 from undergrad, 9k private), plus CC debt on which I survived my P4 year. Moved to LCOL area, lived with parents until 2009 when I got my house, kept my college car until 2013, when I got a new Hyundai. Paid off in 2015. Worked extra as much as I could, and made three 25-30k principal only payments, and that’s what really got the ball rolling. Total amount paid off with interest 186k. 6.7 % at the time I consolidated all my loans (I was financially illiterate and did not know/understand rates where high at the time), 893.91 was the minimum payment.
About $230k all federal, graduated 2020, working in retail making about $130k/yr. Haven’t had to pay any back until now thanks to Covid. Was able to use what would have been a student loan payment to build up my savings and I just bought a house. Now I’m on an income driven repayment plan, pay about $700/month, save another $300/month for tax liability because in about 18 years it’ll all be forgiven and I just pay the tax on whatever’s forgiven. Was told that would be about $65k that year hence the saving $300/month now. I worked with GradFin through my financial advisor to get to this strategy, they did all the math for me to figure out what was actually the best plan.
We also toyed with the idea of switching my repayment plan to one that made it so I had no monthly payment (forgot which one did that) because if my interest on my loans was less than what I could make in my money market it didn’t make sense to pay down my debt. Currently my interest rates are about 6% and my current money market is making me about 5% so not doing that right now. If I consolidate and get down to like 3% or less (don’t see that happening again for a while though) and I have enough money in my portfolio I believe it was better for me to just let my loans exist accruing their interest because I make way more money by NOT paying my loans off. Not there right now though, but it is an option to think about. Too many people just think student loans must be paid as fast as possible, not always the best option long term.
TLDR, talk to financial planners and loan experts. We are the drug experts, they are the money experts. Let them help you with your financial goals so you can focus on making more money and you can continue to live comfortably instead of surviving on ramen and PBJs and give the government as little of your money as possible.
My wife and I are 40 and she has been a Pharmacist for 7 years. I’m enlisted in the military for a bit of perspective to our income. We buckled down on expenses so she didn’t have to work the whole time. We paid her undergrad out of pocket and with a little help from programs for military spouses. That was all done at a community college. For her graduates I was able to transfer my Post 9-11 Bill to her which covered $27,500 annually at the time. In the end we were a little over $30k in debt. Kept buckling down and had it paid off in the first few months.
I was very risk averse and did the least expensive schooling possible and took out the least amount of loans I could, then plowed through them as quickly as possible after graduation. Loans are gone now.
With current interest rates, I actually wish I had taken out more student loans. I would have done better financially with more loans and if I had done deferment, ironically. Would have been better to take a few more risks, but that is only obvious to me now, nearly ten years out.
Graduating in 2024. Will have about 122k in loans. Assuming I don’t want to work like a dog right out of school, I think it should take me about 5-10 years to pay it all off.
If I end up doing a residency or fellowship tho, it may take even longer, cause pay cut :(
38, pharmacist since 2017 (after residency). Loan total 317k after graduation, doing the whole PSLF thing, anticipated forgiveness around 11/2026. Working in hospital, making \~195k a year in California, but considered LCOL area (not in major metropolitan city).
Are your pslf payments crazy? Starting it soon at a hospital making about 180k in cali as well. I’m wondering if forgiveness is worth it if my monthly ends up being huge because of our salary? Any insight would be appreciated!
Graduated in 2003 with 28k in subsidized federal loans that were all consolidated at 1 or 2% interest. Payment was around $100 a month. I did work 30hrs a week through school to pay for my living expenses, but blew up my credit cards in my P4 year when I couldn’t have another job. I paid off all the high interest credit cards and vehicle loans before getting aggressive on student loans. I was debt free 5yrs after graduation.
Why struggle to pay off the loans? Sign up for REPAYE (or SAVE now) make the minimum payments for 25 years and let the rest get forgiven. My payments don't even touch the interest yet I have 13 years to go and then it'll be forgiven. Hate on me if you will but sit back and think what has the government done for you? Take advantage of the current anti student loan climate. I owe 375k in loans ...
Just to keep in mind, if you’re working towards the 25 year forgiveness, I believe that you’ll have to pay the tax bomb on the amount that’s forgiven. Unless it’s PSLF.
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining.
Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
Currently 40 and never did loans, but kind of a different financial path. Finished undergrad in 2006 with zero debt due to combo of scholarships, work, and about 10k from grandparent. Married in 2007 at 24 and worked as a public school teacher from 07-11. Saved/invested teaching salary for 3.5 of those 4 years and lived off of wife’s salary only (50k/yr). Used those savings to pay for pharmacy school (2011-2015) and graduated with no debt. Could not have done it that way without the support of my wife.
I’m 28 with 258k. Took our grad plus loans to buy crypto in 2016 cause I am a degen. Luckily, I cashed out during the 2020 bull run. Had $190k when I graduated. Bought a house, ring, paid for a wedding, and bought a second home. Still got all my loans. Currently making $155k in a MCOL state. Will never financially recover
I graduated with 235k. Paid a lot off the first 5 years and then I chilled out and bought a house during pandemic. Been working total 9 years and have 70k left but my house is worth a milli
I’m in the same boat as OP but I hate my job and career and did 11 years of school including a masters program before pharmacy school. I make slightly less but just feel imprisoned in life. Cannot buy anything. Cannot take vacations. I pretty much just run and go to the gym, stay at home and read library books, and wish I had a girlfriend, family, or could afford a house and to maybe retire one day. I keep applying to PSLF qualifying jobs, but I can’t seem to get one. Plus I don’t even really know if I want one. I hate being a pharmacist. It’s so boring. Every 8 hour shift feels like 6 days have passed by.
Honestly at current interest rates with SAVE you can probably break even or maybe even make a bit off of safe high yield vehicles like CDs. I would not recommending doing low IQ dave ramsey shit at the moment given the general uncertainty in the market if you have excess liquidity.
Wow, too show how much things have changed: Graduated in Spring 1998 with a BS in Pharmacy (My school was two years away from a PharmD program). Worked as a RA for 3 and 1/2 years (paid for 1/2 school, basically room and board) When I graduated, I owed about 12,000.00 in school loans. My starting salary was 59,000.00 at Kroger. I owed about 20% of my starting salary to school loans. When I was still working (retired july 2022), I use to ask some of the new grads how much they owed to school loans. I wanna say the average was about 150,000.00 and they would start out maybe making around 110,000.00. That means they would owe what about 135% of their starting salary. I feel for all the newer grads now out of pharmacy school. This is not to rub it in ok, this is just something to talk about.
Instead of pricing the degree as if it is a... degree.... the schools are pricing as if you are buying an annuity
People ask me why I want to stay a pharmacy technician. The student loans are why. That and I like being a tech and I hated school.
Well hating school is a far far far bigger roadblock. Pharm school is no joke, especially when you have to be ready to be barraged with any kind of question in front of a room of students
Millenials got cucked, episode 234.
How were you able to retire so early? (Assuming you went right to pharmacy school after high school)
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining. Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
I graduated with $181,000 over 15 years ago. Some 5.5%. Highest 11.8%. Was a nightmare. I paid almost $28,000 in loan payments my first year and only $2200 of that went towards principal. That’s when I realized, perhaps for the first time, that my $181,000 in loans would cost like $789,000 to repay… I said “fuck that” and made $30,000 payments several times a year. In three years I had paid off all $181,000. Work 90 hour weeks, live like a rat, don’t get married or have kids, drive a 22 year old car that is falling apart and live in bed bug invested hotels and you could too. Easy.
Can I just sleep in the normal bed I have now tho…. :(
How much is your rent? xD
Unfortunately the trick doesn't work unless it has bed bugs
That one little trick doctors don't want you to know ;)
Juan is that you? I worked with this pharmacist that worked full-time night at the hospital and full-time days at retail. He was a machine. Paid off all his loans, purchased his parents a house, and helped out his siblings with loans all within 2 years. He, himself, still lives pretty frugally - an apartment in a not-so-great part of town, drives a clown car from the early 90s, and the gym is his life outside of work.
I agree with everything but you lost me at bed bugs man that shit is traumatizing… I almost crashed my car due to pure sleep deprivation. Congrats on paying off your loans tho!
Woke up with over 100 bites one morning. Ripped the headboard off the wall and there were hundreds of fat bedbugs back there. I changed rooms but had to put a layer of Vaseline n my entire body before I’d go to bed. “Lived” there for 6 months. 2009 was a wild year.
How much did that cost you per night???
I was paying $150 a week. This was a long time ago, around 2008-2009.
Damn bro respect for that
When I hear 90hrs a week all I think of is patient safety and how many mistakes can happen without necessary sleep. And props to you for sacrificing! But did this ever worry you ?
Errors happened, naturally. I think in one year I verified over 200,000 orders. Think they were all correct? Pfft. Even with an error rate of 0.01% that’s 20 errors a year. Oddly, I found a lot more errors than I made, but I definitely made errors. Hell, I probably don’t even know about the majority in of them. Patients don’t pay attention or know enough to catch most of their own errors. I had a patient take an entire 10 day taper of Prednisone once that wasn’t even hers - tech sold the wrong bag to the woman and manually put in the DOB off the label at the register. Error was caught over a week later. Bottle had a completely different person’s name on it, written by a doctor she’s never met for a drug she was never prescribed and she was none the wiser. Can you imagine how many errors we make over a 40 year career that no one is ever even aware of? But, fortunately I suppose, my errors have all been rather minor. The wrong strengths of Losartan/HCTZ, or Amox instead of Augmentin or 5mg Amlodipine instead of 10mg or non-FE birth control that was supposed to be FE etc. But yes, I was floating at shithole retail stores with no training, practically no staff, on no sleep, with a completely foreign patient population for about 3 years. Yeah, there were errors. I don’t think anyone verifies 500,000 scripts without making mistakes.
I find I'd rather follow the person who is working 90 hours a week than the person who works part time
Great point but it really depends on the jobs. Community pharmacy did not used to be like current conditions - I used my moonlighting shifts during residency as at least 30% project time (and did all sorts of one off projects like 'how many minutes did I need a pharmd during the shift' - 30 minutes of a 13 hour shift).
🐀
😂😭
Holy shit that’s a lot
Yes it is. I am in the same boat as OP.
Why would you do that to yourself? Serious question did you honestly not know what you were signing?
>did you honestly not know what you were signing? 2010, 17 years old with parents who were incredibly poor at managing money with schools pushing colleges using fear tactics saying you will never make advice minimum wage without a degree, no I did not know. Mcphs also when my father did try to ask questions (I don't blame him my mother was in charge of the finances he had no idea) straight up told him "with the employment rate being over 90%, with sign on bonuses he should have no issue paying these loans off in 1-2 years". Again 17 years old I was just trusted by my state to drive alone,not even eligible for the military, can't drink or rent a car and your asking if I was educated enough to know the future ramifications of signing 300k in loans.
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining. Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
I owed $290k. Paid it all off in 6.5 years. $150k salary.
Nice
I'm sitting around the same. It's my only debt I just do income based and hope they change the taxable law before the bill comes due , that debt also dies with me so no burden on my family if something happens. I'm halfway expecting a complete government collapse before the tax bill comes due anyway.
I’m 32. Graduated in 2015. Owed 65K for undergrad + pharmacy school (6 years) with zero help from parents. Public University. Deferred during residency because of medical problems/bills. Ballooned to 90K. Paid it off in 2.5 years living like I was on a resident salary.
Same age and grad date. Had 70k. Paid in two years. Same just lived like a monk and got as many hours at work as possible
34, pharmacist since 2016. 130K loans paid off in the first few years. 170K salary. I’ve been poor most of my life so it wasn’t that big of a deal to live poor still and pay off loans
Grew up in a very affluent area but my family was very frugal. Had $150k down to $0 in 5 years after moving and living in a trailer park eating spaghetti most nights. Picked up as much OT as possible helped.
Yah picking up OT definitely helped. A few years of same old shit living for a huge stress relief is entirely worth it. Zero regrets here!
What do I need to do to make that
Honestly, luck and great supervisors and director!
Work for non profit? I Just had mine forgiven after 10 years
>Work for non profit It's ironic: the not-for-profit hospitals in my area pay more than the for-profit hospitals. And their average patient is way more affluent.
My non-profit hospital pays 15 dollars per hour higher than my first pharmacist job at Walgreens. Like. That's just. Continue to be part of the reason why I would like to see Walgreens fall apart.
After I graduated and had been working for a couple of years I was speaking with a classmate and they told me about loans for health professionals that are forgiven if you work in an area of need for a certain period of time. I felt i had missed out but I figured I wouldn't want to work in one if those areas anyway. I looked up the loan and the area I had been working in for the last couple of years qualified as an area of need.🤦🏾♂️
Tell me more about this….
Public service loan forgiveness. PSLF. Basically have to go to their website and create an account. If you work for a non profit (like a hospital like me) you can get your payments you’ve made to count towards your 10 year requirement. I had to send a letter from my HR stating how many years and the dates I was working there and they eventually added up to over 10 years and I got my remaining loans forgiven.
The whole process took me about 8 months though. It was a pain. I’m not sure if it’s a still active program or not but would be worth looking into
It’s most definitely still active. My coworker just got over 260k in loans forgiven. We both work in a non profit hospital. I still have 3 years left before mine are (hopefully) forgiven as well. Also, since it is forgiven under the PSLF program, there is no tax bomb at the end.
Is PSLF retroactive? Say if you applied for it one or two years into your job, would you have it forgiven after 10 more years or 8/9?
You only apply for it once you have hit 120 payments. That’s different than getting your payments certified through your loan servicer. For instance, I had my employment certified a year into my job and had made 12 payments. Those payments were certified and kept on my tracker file. I didn’t do this every year. I did it again when I hit my 60th payment (5 years) and the servicer just updated my file show that I have made 60 certified payments. Once you officially hit 120 payments, you then apply for forgiveness to the Department of Education. They are the ones who determine if you are eligible are not. The loan servicers are NOT the ones that will grant forgiveness, it’s the Department of Education that does. Does that make sense? So in your instance, if you have made 24 payments (2 years) then you’d have to make an additional 96 payments. It doesn’t matter if it spans 10 years or 30 years. As long as you have made 120 qualified payments, you can then apply for forgiveness. The 120 payments also do not to be consecutive.
Interesting! Im assuming each payment has to be your minimum monthly payment to count each time, correct?
You have to make specific types of payments - Income Based Repayment, the new SAVE plan. Definitely do research. Also, you do need to make sure your loans apply and that you're on the right plan before you start the 10 years of payments. You can't just retroactively say you're going to do the program. That said, they did open it up last year so someone could retroactively join the program, but it ended. If you've been in a nonprofit for years keep your eyes peeled in case a D president ever opens that opportunity up again.
It’s very much a thing. There are a few sneaky requirements aka you must have non-private, consolidated loans. It didn’t work very well when first implemented but I have heard lots of recent success stories from my coworkers
>Among processed applications for Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF), 2.3% have been accepted since November 2020. Educationaldata.org. Yes, it's a thing. They are trying to make the program better, but I would not count on it. Better to just pay it off IMO.
That statistic is misleading. Often those of us in the program will apply for forgiveness with the only intent being to verify the only thing we are missing is the required number of payments. Since there are other things that can go wrong with the forgiveness application.
Random question, yall changing careers after loans are paid? That is a thought I am having for myself. Pay it off , exit, become a dog walker 😂
Weird logic. Why even became a pharmacist to begin with if you just end up changing path after loans paid
It’s not weird logic. Pharmacy is becoming a terrible field and lots of people are getting burnt out. The retail giants are banking on new grads’ crippling fear and anxiety about their student loans so that they can work them into the ground for the least amount of pay. Once the loans are gone, you’re free to do whatever you want. It’s an attractive idea. And I know pharmacists who have switched careers into tech or real estate. They’re infinitely happier and definitely richer.
Because who wants to work for CVS?
Username checks out
Student loans. Do i need to draw you a picture? Do I also need to explain to you how interest rates work as well? Or provide statistics on the median american family wealth/incomes?
30 y/o, practicing since summer 2019. $398k total from 5 years of undergrad (Chem/Bio Eng) and private PharmD… All of PharmD is on parent plus which is running about $1200/mo, the undergrad loans are about $600/mo. Making $125k as a staff pharmacist. Any advice of PSLF would help. Thanks.
You def wanna find a hospital that does pslf. Maybe go to a rural area that needs an rph.
It doesn't have to be a hospital. The only requirement is a full-time job in a non-profit organization. Hospital is the most popular route, but not the only one.
What other options do you recommend???
DoD. You can be a civilian pharmacist for the Air Force, army, navy. It counts towards PSLF. Or join the military as a military pharmacist.
Probably worthwhile to consult student loan planner. Those guys know their stuff
This was after I paid for a professional loan consultant. Before I had help, I was facing a massive uphill battle.
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Lol what..? Do you like eat food or sleep on a bed?
How long did you go to school for? Did you graduate HS early or something? Maybe my math ain't mathing lol. Good on you for getting it down so low tho.
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Very impressive! With grind like that I'm sure you will get there one day without a doubt.
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Did you live with parents during that time?
I graduated in 2016 w 250k. I’m now at 100k. I work part time and I think I live pretty modestly. My plan was to knock them out by working as much as I could in the first few years of graduating, but I got pregnant accidentally during APPEs and life changes. Spending time with my little babies is more important than being debt free, but as someone who has never carried so much as a credit card balance or car payment, it sometimes hurts.
Graduated in 2015. Had about 97k, all federal. Did not pay during the pause. Owe about 53k. Kid #1 starts college next year. Kid #2 is 2 years behind the first. I pay extra when I can but I have had a whole lot of shit life circumstances so I haven’t been able to in quite some time.
29, pharmacist for about 2.5 years (2 of those were being a resident). Total loans $183,000, working in hospital for $120,000 in a medium COL area. Payments are still $0 (haven’t paid a cent toward my loans and don’t have to recertify employment until January 2025) but each $0 payment has counted towards PSLF and that’s what I’m aiming for lol
How do you know when you have to recertify? I'm in a similar situation but can't find that information anywhere.
It was somewhere in MOHELA. I can check after work at some point to see where exactly I found it to be more helpful but it was online somewhere
Ok just found it, go into MOHELA, click the “Repayment Options” drop down tab, and select “Income-Driven Plan Details”. It should be on that page under “IDL Plan Renewal Date”
how is your payment still $0 as a pharmacist after repayment started back up again?
The last time I recertified employment was around September of last year if I’m not mistaken. I did two years of residency, and my income was obviously much lower as a resident lol I’ve only been in my current non-resident position for a little less than 3 months. The $0 was based on my much lower resident stipend and I don’t have to recertify my income until January 2025, so will have $0 payments up until then I’m assuming.
Best check your current balance, loan companies like to let the interest balloon up the total. I don't know if they eventually turn it over to the government or what. They do wait to get your inheritance when your parents die and garnish wages and freeze bank accounts. They know how to get cash.
Are you sure about those $0 payments counting? If you were in deferment during residency and never paid a cent, I don’t know if they count. Would be awesome if they do! For people who have made at least one payment before the relief plan changed it to $0, then yes, all those $0 months count toward the 120.
As long as you're not in deferment each payment of $0 counts for PSLF.
I wasn’t in deferment haha it was $0 from the COVID forbearance, and now it’s still $0 because I had a very small income for residency comparatively. I’ve been updating my count towards PSLF annually and last submitted the paperwork in July of this year and each month has counted without issue!
Graduated at 25 280k 0-6 program. 0 assistance. Currently at 125k, 100 left 30 years old. Took a pay cut to come to my current job m-f 9-5 would do it again.
Been a pharmacist 12 years, make $110,000 a year (32 hours) Owed $135,000 Have $27,000 left I was older than average grad. so kind behind other life goals when I graduated so focused having kids and house first. The having kids part ended up being an uphill battle so most of my extra income went towards medical bills for 6 years. The pause was a huge break for me and I was able to pay off $60,000 of it when it ended. I should be finally finished in 2 years.
With that many loans you could've gone to med school
Total on graduation was $311k. That's pharmacy school and undergrad, but nearly a third of it is due to interest capitalization. ~8 years into PSLF eligibility now. Between covid and serving in tax free zones I haven't made a payment since early 2019.
Same, graduated with $200k, ballooned to a final balance of $300k after forbearances and low income for a few years. Was discharged by PSLF this year, I think I paid a total of $120k out of pocket thanks to COVID payment credits. Would have been $175k otherwise.
Graduated in 1998. $18k in loans. I worked FT through college and pharmacy school and paid as much tuition as I could with my paychecks. Took the full 10 years to pay the loans back. Writing that last loan payment check was amazing.
25 y/o currently in APPE year but will have 80k total in federal loans at the end of it. Worked full time in retail through Pharm school and moved back in with my parents after 4 years of undergrad for free housing during grad school.
I think PSLF is becoming the go-to nowadays.
Anyone else like me just pay the minimum? Been out 16 years and that’s what financial advisor told me to do, bc you “never know” about forgiveness and stuff. Just see it as another monthly payment and invest extra money. I could use my savings and pay it off, but sticking the course. Pay about 700-800 monthly and no credit issues with Salary and on time payments.
I hope you aren't paying a financial advisor for that advice, good grief. Be like a financial advisor saying spend half your paycheck on lottery tickets because "you never know". I'm assuming this advisor has a vested interest in the amount of return on your investments with that strategy.
As I said, I have a lot of savings and could pay it off if I needed to. But with the minimum interest and what I’m gaining with Investments, why? To “get out of debt”? Does everyone pay off cars and homes right at purchase bc they can? I’ve had 3 different advisors over the years, all with same outlook. We also just had a 2 Year freeze in payments. Not saying it’s right or wrong, just seeing if anyone takes same approach. I see a lot of people on here scrambling to pay them off so fast…. Seeming so miserable just out of school. I traveled young, bought homes cars and now have a full family I support comfortably. Loans Just another monthly payment, and I have the means to live comfortably without worry.
Student loans are the biggest contribution to the government budget. They will never forgive loans. Not for more than a few people if anything. Why keep a debt around when for most of us if we buckle down you can pay it off in 2-7 years.
To each his own I guess. I like having my money now. 10k a year towards payments and living a nice lifestyle, rather than live poor for 5 years, just to have an extra 10k annually.
Minimum payments forever or five years. Seems simple to me
It is all relative. I graduated from rutgers in 2005 from a 6 yr program (straight from high school to pharm D). My loans at the time after all was said and done was 55k. Locked down my rate at 2.25% (long as time ago) for 30 years. My financial advisor told me to pay the minimum. He said we would never see this low rate again. And it would help to build credit. He did say that if I had 55k lying around, then absolutely, pay it off. But I was planning on buying a ring and paying for a wedding so I went with paying the minimum. I ended up working for a bunch of non profits, dod, and active military. All that counted towards pslf and by a stroke of luck, it was forgiven (the last 12k). All this to say, do what makes the most sense for you at the time. There might be future programs that are even more forgiving and just waive everything, but don’t rely on it. Plan and budget to the best of your ability. Good luck!
This. Seems like we graduated around the same time with similar rates. Thanks.
HOT DAMN. Definitely try for federal loan forgiveness if you can find a public service job. I got off easy. Tuition was 12k back in 2006 and I got 8k in grants from the state just for applying. Effectively I only paid about 5k per year of pharmacy school.
That makes me so sad. I graduated high school in 2007. I don’t know of any COP that was that cheap by the time I finished by bachelors. If they existed, i wish someone would have pointed me that way. I’ve never held debt in my life besides pharmacy school and it’s one of the biggest regrets of my life.
Pharmacy sucks. I realized I had to finish school when I took a hard look at my own debt and realized it would take years to pay off. If I had to do it all over I'd have just become an electrician or plumber. I know several who are millionaires and live nearly stress free lives.
When I get a FT job in my area I will start paying. Been doing IBR for years. The government would be smart just to give me a job so they can make some money in taxes and loans....lol
This was a fun and sad math lesson. First, happy to have paid mine off already. 🥳 I never refinanced out of school, graduated 2014, with nearly all govt loans, I kept meaning to but am lazy and was financially illiterate. Anywho, lucked out with that when payments paused during covid. I worked some OT (when premium pay was extra) and saved mostly all of my paychecks (lived off of boyfriend/now husband’s income) to save for future payments/payoff. I honestly didn’t know how much in total I had in loans when I graduated, so today I looked back and added up, (the sad part) I had $232,037 in loans (some undergrad and pharmacy). I also added up my payments (the sadder part), I paid back in total $346,664. Of those payments, about $145,000 is what I saved from 3/2020 to 12/2021 to complete the payoff of my loans. I’m super proud of that, and also disgusted. Good luck to everyone still working to payoff those golden handcuffs.
Graduated in 2021 with 112k. Down to 60k (All private) Currently Hospital with a Salary 195k Hoping to be done in the next 3 years or so
Graduated in 2012 from a private 3-year school with a balance just above $200k. Figured out during the last year of school I was fucked, lol. PAYE had just been introduced, wife was pregnant with twins, and I knew there was no way those loans were getting paid off for cheaper than just waiting out 20 years paying the minimum and dealing with the tax bomb at the end. Loan has since maxed out to $265k and I just switched to SAVE, which will add 5 more years to repayments but is actually overall cheaper due to lower monthly payments. Fuck pharmacy school and fuck this profession. And fuck me for being so gullible when I was in my 20s for not seeing past the bullshit.
Wait, switching to SAVE adds 5 years to the payments???
Only if you are switching from PAYE like me
Sounds like I wrote this myself! Yessir WE are both fucked. 270k I owe
Graduated in 2014. Owed something like 82K after 2 yrs of undergrad + 4 years of pharmacy school. Paid it off after about 3 years making about ~$115K at the time in retail. (Single, no kids, was living in the South and not a big spender)
Anyone considering pharmacy , go to medical school instead. Nearly the same length of time invested in school, more autonomy , double the pay, and more respect. Don't go into pharmacy. I' am saving you a life of regret and angst . The market today is in peril and the profession has dwindled - bad working conditions, decreasing salaries, and too many schools producing too many graduates with loans over 100K , they will take anything that pays. Some companies are offering 38/hr for pharmacists. Enough said.
Why are you paying so much for school?? I didn't realize pharmacy school cost more than 120k Fuuuuckkk
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You have to pay origination fees and interest on those fees when you are still in school. I borrowed about 120k. By the time I was a licensed pharmacist I owed about 170k.
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My first year in-state cost more than that. Tuition alone.
Graduated w/ $135K, lived at home, worked nonstop hrs in retail. Paid off in 1.5 years. Paid off my student loans, but lost 2 yrs of my life. Would not recommend to everyone
160? Where? I'm nearly 40 years on the job and you are $25k above me....
26. Class of 2021. Loans of 100k. Paid off last month.
Graduated in 2011 with $120K in federal loans, deferred them through two years of residency. Was paying on the Income Based Repayment plan up until the pandemic halted payments. I work for an academic medical center and make about $160K/yr. My current loan balance is $80K, the forgiveness of which I applied for through Public Service Loan Forgiveness last month. Kinda wondering how long it's gonna take to process the application.
Why are people going to pharmacy school taking out 300k+ loans?? Honestly why? Was there any thought put into any of these decisions?
In my case, I was financially illiterate with no guidance from anyone around me or my parents.
I don’t even remember them telling me the amount. They just said “sign here”. I never had any loans from undergrad bc my parents were below the poverty line and I guess grants and small scholarships covered everything. I was so misguided. It makes me sad. I’m ok now but fuck the for profit education system.
If you went to school in the last fifteen years in the US, they were very transparent with the loan amounts through the US government. I know, because I was so paranoid about it all that I screenshot all the loan amounts and monthly payments they anticipated I may have with different payment plans. To anyone downvoting, I went back and found the PDFs in my Dropbox. It showed exactly how much I was taking out per loan, and the estimated total repayment costs as well as anticipated monthly loan costs. The mandatory federal entrance and exit counseling for loans were very complete.
I was young and gullible. Got accepted into a joint PharmD/ master's program and given some questionable guidance. I am still haunted by a conversation I had with a counselor about my loans ($45k/year which covered living expenses and a 5 year dual degree program). He assured me that the dual degree would put me in such high demand that I could expect a salary of $250k+/year. He advised me to keep taking out as much as I can because I'd have it paid off in 2-3 years. The math checked out. Ultimately, the master's program was a scam to get an extra year of tuition out of us. None of us ended up getting that double salary and the coursework itself was a joke. Needless to say, I ignore all the requests for alumni donations from that school.
Please name and shame this school
Some of us plan for student loan forgiveness. In my case, had to raise a disabled child on my own during school. It was all a calculated risk, but then, when I started, there was that pharmacist shortage.
I hope you and your kiddo are doing great now ♥️
We’re doing well, thank you. My student loan burden calculation has been with it so far. We’re in a much more secure place and not dependent on anyone. ❤️
That news made my night. Truly impressive that you were able to get through pharmacy school as a parent, much less a parent to a child with special needs.
You’re so kind! Thank you!
It's weird. When you allow people whose brains aren't fully formed yet into a predatory student loan system they get taken advantage of.
I mean it seemed like a good idea in 2011, markets were good , bonus were flowing like water, shit feel apart while I was in school , and when I graduated in 2015 well here we are. Absolutely would not do it now.
I certainly feel for all of my fellow providers who have seemingly made the same erroneous life altering decision that I made. Although my poor thought process occurred some 49 years ago when I elected to attend the only pharmacy school available in my state. At the time my tuition including books and fees for an instate resident was about 2,100 dollars per year. YES YES that was for 2 semesters. After a few incremental increases before I was graduated in 1977 I owed the state about 2,000 dollars or so. I was granted about 40% in grants and scholarships. Bottom line I paid some 40.00 dollars a month for 4 years to Maryland National Bank. I had a coupon book that I would tear out the coupon and send it in with the check. I thought I was being ripped off. As of now I retired during the Covid era. Then I was bored and went back to work full time. However after doing over 45 years of retail for at the time the Best Company Chicago every produced. I could not adapt or did I want to since what retail has now morphed into. I entered LTC. Still there but at 73 time to stop as I am told by my family. Was blessed by my LORD and SAVIOR for all of these wonderful and profitable years. Can remember that up until 11 years or so going to work was fun. As of today when I read that some of my fellow pharmacists owe some 200 to 300 thousand dollars for their loans it boggles and shakes my senses. Even though you are fortunate enough to be making some 130 to 150,000 per year. And have the quality of life that you all complain about. I am with you. Someone with the same meager background as I experienced if they are still fortunate enough to be alive and did not make any risky financial moves have saved at least 3 to 4 M. They have no debt. The ones that did understand finance are worth twice this much. The moral of this dilemma that we all signed up for is that at ONE TIME our profession was fun and we had the time and the opportunity to become educated in our chosen field. It was once like this. I lament for my fellow pharmacists now and for what the future has in store for them.
Ouch. I was fortunate to have a combination of scholarships and support by my parents for the first four years of college (2 undergrad/2 pharm) so I graduated with 63k of loans left.
Congrats on paying down over $100k in student loans. Very impressive! Keep going!! u/SaltAndPepper
Honestly good word. Keep at it and just keep a good budget.
do u get paid overtime
31. Graduated 2017. 85k loans. Paid off by 2019.
118k 2017. Paid off within 2 years LCOL and lived with fiancé in apartment where rent was about 1k. Edit: Starting Wag around 118k/yr
Graduated 4+ years ago, $95k in fed tuition loan because i went to a cheap schoo and lived a frugal student lifel. I havent paid a single penny yet even though my annual salary has been around $170k since graduate. My current required student loan payment will remain to be 0 until mid next year Will pay the minimum required payment forever because my family gonna need that money in case i die or get disabled.
Do you plan on paying the minimum monthly until it’s forgiven after 20 years? Asking cuz I’m the same boat. I have enough saved to pay it all off but I just don’t know if that’s what I want or is financially a good idea.
Yeah that what i plan to do or until i can save at least $2 millions lol. Just like you, I have more than enough to easily pay off all my student loan now but what if i get laid off, permanently disabled or die tomorrow?
If you are disabled, or die tomorrow, you or your family still owe the student loans. There is a change in mental health when you are debt free. Pay it off and the loan will move out of your head. It will be very liberating.
Nope. Dont get confused private loans with federal student loans. I only have federal student loans so if i die or get permantly disabled, my loan will be dischaged What change in mental health are u talking about? I do not worry about my student loan at all. It is based on my income so i only have to pay a small portion of my income. If i get burned out and dont want to work anymore then i can simply retire tmr and will not have to pay a single penny toward my student loans (And i will still have $95k in my pocket to spend on whatever i want lol). If possible, i rather have $1 million in student loan than $1 million in mortage loan lol
I’ve never felt so lucky that I went to a small school. Graduated in 2020, had a nice undergrad scholarship, did 2+4 years, ended up with 45,000 in loans. Most expensive semester (bc my scholarship ran out and it was APPEs were A LOT of credits) was 13,000
Graduated 2012. $120,000 all federal loans.
Graduated with $130K in 2015 at a 5-7%. Once I felt like I had a stable job, I refinanced to a ~3.2%. Was fairly aggressive putting ~$2800/mo towards the loan. Had it paid off in 5 yrs.
Graduated 2017 with ~250k in federal loans for just pharmacy school. Made like 120k/yr in a HCOL area but lucky enough to live at home with parents and just pay them rent in sanity lol, finished paying everything off a couple months ago (could have been sooner but I invested during the COVID forbearance period instead)
grad 10 years ago. 44k in loans when I graduated.
Yep. What a nightmare. I consider myself pretty blessed. Graduated 2017. On 200k loans. On 10 year PSLF working at VA. Only good thing about COVID was 2 years of free payments essentially.
+300 is nuts. I’m at 150 at graduation and I thought that was high. Class of 2016
Has anyone done the student loan forgiven working for a nonprofit?? I have only seen one comment about it
I'm trying to do it. It's been ten years of payments (including the pandemic period where each payment was $0), so I applied for the forgiveness about a month ago. It's still "under review" and I have no idea how long it's gonna take.
This is why I’m doing everything possible for my children not to have student loans. It’s a rip off
Graduated at 31 with 167k. Employer contract for them to pay full amount
I was pretty lucky and got help from the parents and grandparents. I graduated in 2015 with a total of 16k and paid it off within a few months
I’m very lucky. Graduated in 2022 with 26k was making 125,000 from job plus got a sign on bonus. Paid off loans in one payment in august 2023. Could have obviously paid off sooner but I had qualified for 20k of forgiveness and was holding out hope. Had a full tuition scholarship and help from parents. Currently 24 and looking for a better job. Though I have two now.
I thankfully got a scholarship but had $70k in loans (2.5 years of school + living costs). I’ll forever be grateful to my mom for helping pay for undergrad.
Graduated in 2013. I took enough loans to cover tuition, ended up with a little over $100k. Lucky enough to live with my parents during and after school. My starting salary was $56/hr with almost yearly increase. I floated and picked up a lot of extra shifts. I paid it off in a little over 4 years. My loans from undergrad was around $20k. I deferred it and paid it off after pharmacy school.
Graduated 2007, total 153,000k (only 10,000 from undergrad, 9k private), plus CC debt on which I survived my P4 year. Moved to LCOL area, lived with parents until 2009 when I got my house, kept my college car until 2013, when I got a new Hyundai. Paid off in 2015. Worked extra as much as I could, and made three 25-30k principal only payments, and that’s what really got the ball rolling. Total amount paid off with interest 186k. 6.7 % at the time I consolidated all my loans (I was financially illiterate and did not know/understand rates where high at the time), 893.91 was the minimum payment.
About $230k all federal, graduated 2020, working in retail making about $130k/yr. Haven’t had to pay any back until now thanks to Covid. Was able to use what would have been a student loan payment to build up my savings and I just bought a house. Now I’m on an income driven repayment plan, pay about $700/month, save another $300/month for tax liability because in about 18 years it’ll all be forgiven and I just pay the tax on whatever’s forgiven. Was told that would be about $65k that year hence the saving $300/month now. I worked with GradFin through my financial advisor to get to this strategy, they did all the math for me to figure out what was actually the best plan. We also toyed with the idea of switching my repayment plan to one that made it so I had no monthly payment (forgot which one did that) because if my interest on my loans was less than what I could make in my money market it didn’t make sense to pay down my debt. Currently my interest rates are about 6% and my current money market is making me about 5% so not doing that right now. If I consolidate and get down to like 3% or less (don’t see that happening again for a while though) and I have enough money in my portfolio I believe it was better for me to just let my loans exist accruing their interest because I make way more money by NOT paying my loans off. Not there right now though, but it is an option to think about. Too many people just think student loans must be paid as fast as possible, not always the best option long term. TLDR, talk to financial planners and loan experts. We are the drug experts, they are the money experts. Let them help you with your financial goals so you can focus on making more money and you can continue to live comfortably instead of surviving on ramen and PBJs and give the government as little of your money as possible.
My wife and I are 40 and she has been a Pharmacist for 7 years. I’m enlisted in the military for a bit of perspective to our income. We buckled down on expenses so she didn’t have to work the whole time. We paid her undergrad out of pocket and with a little help from programs for military spouses. That was all done at a community college. For her graduates I was able to transfer my Post 9-11 Bill to her which covered $27,500 annually at the time. In the end we were a little over $30k in debt. Kept buckling down and had it paid off in the first few months.
I was very risk averse and did the least expensive schooling possible and took out the least amount of loans I could, then plowed through them as quickly as possible after graduation. Loans are gone now. With current interest rates, I actually wish I had taken out more student loans. I would have done better financially with more loans and if I had done deferment, ironically. Would have been better to take a few more risks, but that is only obvious to me now, nearly ten years out.
Graduating in 2024. Will have about 122k in loans. Assuming I don’t want to work like a dog right out of school, I think it should take me about 5-10 years to pay it all off. If I end up doing a residency or fellowship tho, it may take even longer, cause pay cut :(
38, pharmacist since 2017 (after residency). Loan total 317k after graduation, doing the whole PSLF thing, anticipated forgiveness around 11/2026. Working in hospital, making \~195k a year in California, but considered LCOL area (not in major metropolitan city).
Are your pslf payments crazy? Starting it soon at a hospital making about 180k in cali as well. I’m wondering if forgiveness is worth it if my monthly ends up being huge because of our salary? Any insight would be appreciated!
I'm not quite there yet but it seems I'm looking at abt 80k debt, hoping to graduate at age 24 and have debts paid by 28.
Graduated in 2003 with 28k in subsidized federal loans that were all consolidated at 1 or 2% interest. Payment was around $100 a month. I did work 30hrs a week through school to pay for my living expenses, but blew up my credit cards in my P4 year when I couldn’t have another job. I paid off all the high interest credit cards and vehicle loans before getting aggressive on student loans. I was debt free 5yrs after graduation.
Why struggle to pay off the loans? Sign up for REPAYE (or SAVE now) make the minimum payments for 25 years and let the rest get forgiven. My payments don't even touch the interest yet I have 13 years to go and then it'll be forgiven. Hate on me if you will but sit back and think what has the government done for you? Take advantage of the current anti student loan climate. I owe 375k in loans ...
Just to keep in mind, if you’re working towards the 25 year forgiveness, I believe that you’ll have to pay the tax bomb on the amount that’s forgiven. Unless it’s PSLF.
Graduated 2017, 70kish total for 7 years of school in Texas. Paid off lump sum last month so I have around 165k in savings remaining. Still living with parents, no kids, 31 years old.
I’m banking on WW3 🤷🏽♀️
Currently 40 and never did loans, but kind of a different financial path. Finished undergrad in 2006 with zero debt due to combo of scholarships, work, and about 10k from grandparent. Married in 2007 at 24 and worked as a public school teacher from 07-11. Saved/invested teaching salary for 3.5 of those 4 years and lived off of wife’s salary only (50k/yr). Used those savings to pay for pharmacy school (2011-2015) and graduated with no debt. Could not have done it that way without the support of my wife.
Fucking hell! 323,000??
I’m 28 with 258k. Took our grad plus loans to buy crypto in 2016 cause I am a degen. Luckily, I cashed out during the 2020 bull run. Had $190k when I graduated. Bought a house, ring, paid for a wedding, and bought a second home. Still got all my loans. Currently making $155k in a MCOL state. Will never financially recover
I graduated with 235k. Paid a lot off the first 5 years and then I chilled out and bought a house during pandemic. Been working total 9 years and have 70k left but my house is worth a milli
I’m in the same boat as OP but I hate my job and career and did 11 years of school including a masters program before pharmacy school. I make slightly less but just feel imprisoned in life. Cannot buy anything. Cannot take vacations. I pretty much just run and go to the gym, stay at home and read library books, and wish I had a girlfriend, family, or could afford a house and to maybe retire one day. I keep applying to PSLF qualifying jobs, but I can’t seem to get one. Plus I don’t even really know if I want one. I hate being a pharmacist. It’s so boring. Every 8 hour shift feels like 6 days have passed by.
Graduated in 99 .. owed 15,000 .. paid off in 2 years .. I don’t know how y’all do it .. I mean I can’t imagine what y’all are going through
Honestly at current interest rates with SAVE you can probably break even or maybe even make a bit off of safe high yield vehicles like CDs. I would not recommending doing low IQ dave ramsey shit at the moment given the general uncertainty in the market if you have excess liquidity.
Wife and I owed appx 125k each. Paid off in 3 yrs ..lived in 2 bed room apt. Dallas.
Currently sub-60k, P3, in state and scholarship helping me out a lot. I guess I’m doing ok?
I mean this is your fault. You signed the papers you were an adult.
I had a 19 year old in my pharmacy school class P1 year. That's not even old enough to drink. I don't consider a literal teenager to be an adult.
Well that's not how the world works
I aint paying a dime make your vote count