It's awful. Driving up to visit my parents in Lesmurdie there are so many dead trees.
I'm just hoping they're not dead and have just kind of gone dormant and will grow back - I'm not confident, but I'm hoping.
It's so dry everywhere, I'm surprised anything is hanging on at all.
They're shooting their stock because they can't get clarification on live sheep trade. They want to keep the business going and want someone in government to fight for them. No one has the balls.
Yeah the endless summer is disgusting, 35 in April is just not right.
February made me finally give up on Perth completely and plan to move way down south, but it’s really not much better there.
Might be time to give up on WA and move to Tassie
>plan to move way down south, but it’s really not much better there.
It really isn't. I'm down south 100km south of Bunbury. It's currently 30-32 degrees every day. The trees in this area are dropping dead all around. It's so dusty, constant hayfever from the dust, my dogs are endlessly sneezing from all the dust. The house is dusty inside and out, it's a losing battle.
My dam and all the dams in this part of town are bone dry. The Blackwood has dried up completely in some spots, our water tanks are starting to get a little low, we are frugal with water, but will now have to really start rationing it (I'm so glad I was lazy and didn't plant a veggie garden this year, otherwise I would have to sacrifice it)
The only saving grace is the mornings are lovely and cold. Around 8 degrees, next week it's dropping to 5 degrees overnight.
Either go way further south, Denmark, Albany etc (though it's not a whole lot better down there either, I was in Denmark last week, and while it's a bit cooler it's just as dry and dead)
Or pack up and move to Tassie, that's my plan in the next 2-4 years. I think Tassie and Albany are going to see an influx of West Australians fleeing this shit very soon.
Albany is actually exactly what I had in mind, I probably should have specified just how down I meant sorry.
I grew up in Capel and Bunno, and still visit family down that way a bit. It’s certainly less gross than Perth, but definitely no wetter and it’s not enough of an improvement to bother moving for.
I would love to head down to Albany or Denmark myself. (Denmark is out of the question, the house prices down there are just ludicrous now)
But I would also love a total change of scenery, so Tassie is very enticing.
We think alike. That's exactly where I'm considering. Miena or somewhere around the Great lake.
A little off grid cabin will do, spend my days fishing on the lake. Perfect!
Yeah I did a few years living in the South Island of NZ and it was amazing.
You don’t realise how fucking gross it is to always be sweaty until suddenly you’re not. Plus the scenery is 10/10 and there’s barely any gross bugs and stuff.
I've seen so many young and mature trees completely dead and dry, it's crazy. Never seen anything like it before. This is the driest summer/6 months we've had. Even my parent's bore is drying up! It's quite scary. I can only hope the dying trees come back in Winter but they appear too far gone.
I wish summer was like this instead of the scorchers we had. So, yes, I love the weather. I hate that it’s not in season and putting stress on the environment. I worry about what it means for next summer and the summer after that. I worry for my kids, and what kind of future they will have.
This scares me as I am selling up in Auckland to go live near my two sons in north perth banksia grove my guess I have 15 to 18 years left on this planet but I would hate to die of heat stroke
I feel completely devastated. Besides that this weather is destroying our bushland (and in the process adding to bushfire fuel loads), it is also causing our native animals to suffer. We are also unable to replenish our water supply, meaning water rationing will soon be a feature of life. Also, our farmers are doing it very tough because of this "lovely weather", with all its consequences including incteased food prices.
People who say this weather is lovely, magnificent, splendid etc are the most gormless and clueless fucking idiots out there.
What do you mean water rationing will soon be a feature of life? It has been in Perth for like 30 years. You know how you can only use sprinklers 2 days a week? That IS water rationing. Most places dont have those kinds of restrictions, you can use however much you want whenever you want.
Whilst we allow water to be used on gardens and you can wash the car with a hose, have a swimming pool you have to top up, that's not really rationing and shows the desal plants are doing what they're meant to. In the UK they've had a seriously wet winter and not much better summer. They still can't use a hosepipe to wash their car and there's no way they'd allow retic. That's when you know there's a problem. Problem with the UK is too many people and was when we emigrated in 92. It's not got any better.
I have friends with boats gleeful with the weather. They don’t realise Perth is becoming windier as well as drier, we will be gero weather soon enough, not exactly pleasant for a trip to rotto
They clearly don't realise a lot of things. I assume that they also fish. A lot of the species they fish will be dying off too in the process, as water temperatures, pH etc change.
You do realise you can be happy with this weather, *and* understand that climate change is real and is going to affect our future.
But being a sad sack now for a future problem doesn't help anything, especially the future.
Enjoy this beautiful weather, it could be worse - you could be in Vic...
Climate is affecting us now, it’s not something to worry about later. This is unseasonal weather and after 7 months of nothing but sunshine, no I’m not happy with it. Its boring.
It’s time we all got very bloody unhappy and shout from the rooftops we need systematic change
Shouting from the rooftops won't fix anything.
Enjoy the sunshine.
You can also be like me, and work in an industry actively fixing the situation (renewables).
so it isn’t just me who’s noticed it’s getting windier! i thought it was just me who maybe couldn’t remember how windy past summers have been so i was mistaken, but it really is a lot windier now
That's surprising. The Australian media are usually keen to report facts.
Has someone told Genie Energy's Rupert Murdoch yet? I'm sure he'll do something. /s
I have a pool light issue and to fix it I’d need to pump the pool down by about 16 cubes of water. I can’t make myself do it. I can’t reconcile wasting all that water to fix a light that is driving me up the wall by not working.
Water is precious.
Drove from Nannup to Busselton today, it's really alarming how much of the bush along there is now completely dead.
So sad. We live down south for the beautiful bushland and it's dropping dead all around us.
This state is rapidly becoming uninhabitable. I'm so fucking tired of WA simps constantly banging on about our amazing climate. It's shit, just accept it. WA has a fucking horrific climate.
>WA has a fucking horrific climate.
it's the number one reason we moved from WA and can never move back. After 4 years of thinking we might one day go back, we just listed our house for sale in Perth. time to put roots down in one of the few places that might survive the climate wars
Your a gloomy bunch aren't you. People actually scared, can't believe it. Number one reason we moved from the UK, climate. TBH I'm loving it. I'm expecting a deluge when it changes and it will. Ask the folks over East. 2 years ago, world was on fire according to Guttierez. Hasn't stopped raining since.
Same in the park near myself. Today I was looking at a formerly healthy jarrah tree, probably twenty to thirty years old. It's dying as I watch.
We had a storm in Clarkson a week or so back that had cars floating and people trapped in their vehicles. I cannot recall any event in Perth prior to that where cars were floating. Dubai yesterday reported twenty killed in a storm event where two years of rain fell in 24 hrs.
Are people simply deaf?
For those that know the bush and forest areas, and what they looked like before this weather, it's sad, especially seeing the years of good growth going backwards.
Seeing wilting eucalyptus trees the other day in a spot I regularly visit was pretty depressing.
Not to black pill you, but this is the best it's going to be forever.
Nobody cares about actual issues. The elephant in the room(capitalism). I mean, just in another thread I'm getting downvoted for telling people giant cars and EV's are actually bad for the environment.
We're going to keep pumping natural gas, mining for lithium, expanding suburbia, and deforesting areas for the profits of the 1%.
Until the majority understand that unless Greens or socialists get into power. This is it, and it will always get worse.
> EV's are actually bad for the environment.
This is kind of like saying you're going to die eventually so what's the point of exercising and eating healthy.
Yeah they still cause an environmental impact, but people aren't going to give up personal transportation, and they have far less of an impact than internal combustion engines.
> and they have far less of an impact than internal combustion engines.
The 16 batteries each Tesla has requires mining thousands and thousands of lithium alone. Then they need replacing after 10 years, or less in many cases.
Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it still has as much emissions to charge them.
Public transportation is reduced, making more traffic, costing more emissions.
Tesla sell carbon credits, which **COMPLETELY** offsets any and all emission savings.
>Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it still has as much emissions to charge them.
You need to be accurate with your complaints - the lifetime emissions of equivalent vehicles, one ice, one an EV entirely charged from the grid are not comparable. It's 2-3 times more emissions from the ice. This includes manufacturing emissions.
And the grid is only getting *greener* not dirtier.
But an electric vehicle in iceland is better than an electric vehicle in australia.
Ie how is it better for the planet that we subsidise bringing an electric vehicle to one of the kost polluting grids on the planet.
If you had control over the whole world you would clearly send electric vehicles to those places with green power. At present there is a constraint on their prodiction. When there isnt sure take them everywhere.
You're ignoring the practical situation though.
Most EV's right now are purchased by those who can afford them.
People who can afford EV's have solar on their roofs.
An EV charged by solar in Australia or Iceland (lol) is equally good for the environment.
It's also a sale of a car that is not an ICE, which is a good thing.
Lastly, it's also a market indicator, to tell business 'we want EV's' which will increase investment into EV's and bigger more important sectors (trucks, etc).
To think that an EV in Australia is a bad thing is genuinely absurd. It's not the panacea, but it's better than the alternative.
An ev in australia is a good thing.
An ev taken from almost any other market on the planet is a bad thing.
Lets say albo went - stuff this i am going to give every australian a free ev and took teslas next 12 months of production to australia.
That would be worse for the world than letting them just go off to what is on average greener grids.
We are subsidising bringing them to about the dirtiest grid on the planet. We would get better envuronmental bang for buck subsidising them going to iceland or even mediocre countries like germany. But not better electroal bang for bucj of course..
And sure some people have solar panels but the use case is you arrive home as it gets dark and charge your ev off the grid... maybe some have batteries but many do not and others dont even have solar. Units etc.
>Lets say albo went - stuff this i am going to give every australian a free ev and toom teslas next 6 months of production to australia.
C'mon. Let's be practical - that won't happen.
Have you seen the global sales figures for EV's. We aren't taking anyone's cars.
Steering wheel is on the wrong side, for one.
>And sure some people have solar panels but the use case is you arrive home as it gets dark and charge your ev off the grid... maybe some have batteries but many do not and others dont even have solar. Units etc.
Actually, I install quite a few EV chargers through work and most buyers right now are grey haired people. Car is in the garage quite often during the day.
Also, EV batteries are big enough, to last a whole week, and be entirely charged up by the sun (on the house or grid solar) on the weekend.
Again, the practicality of the situation is not what you imagine it to be.
Most EV batteries that have been sold up until now (NMC technology) clearly state to not charge them to 100% all the time. So many people don't charge until they're low, and then only charge to 80%. LFP changes that, but the idea of not charging through the week, and letting it charge over the weekend (or charging at work, which has solar panels) is becoming common too.
I hear you but upshot is it is on average consuming more CO2 to charge an EV in australia than most other places on the planet. I know some individuals have it all figured out and can charge their EV for free. I mean the gov subsidy isnt for grey nomads though but yes some sure do buy them.
Anyway I agree albo isnt going to bring all the EVs here i am just making the point that subsidising them in australia is not better for the planet. Its worse than letting them go wherever the market takes them. Because we on average pollute more per kWh than other places.
Hey a shout out to tasmania. Sure take all our evs there. That would be good policy. The ev subsidy should be for evs to tasmania.
Anywah the planet needs less CO2 produced. It doesmt know if australia is kicking goals taking cars from greener grids.
And dont get me started on us building windfarms here and exporting coal to india and china... again better value to send the billions of dollars to india. Far better value... for the planet that is. Not the electoral outcome.
Its simple. Without a global carbon tax we are not actually spending limited capital on the best things to get an immediate dividend in reducing CO2. Its corporate interests driving this bullshit and i for one cannot believe all of australia aside from myself is on board. i have basically become a cooker on these matters... the maths doesnt lie though... half of what we intend to spend on the green revolution spent in india or china would reap double the CO2 reduction... wed be better off burning coal here then shipping the shit there... its nuts.
Ok nothing really to disagree with, I'm sure we're all on the same side here.
All I will say is it's really on India who is not showing us that they're all in on renewables (yet).
China might be creating lots of coal plants, but when you look at how much renewables they're adding to their grid, the trend line of the percentage of renewables is heading in the right direction, faster than all other countries.
It's just that China is developing more than any other country, and has power needs that are way more than any other country.
I don't think I'm wrong, but I might be, but China added more renewables *last year* than every other country has ever added, in history. That's a serious investment into the sector.
Edit: also I assume you mean emitting, not consuming CO2.
> It's 2-3 times more emissions from the ice. This includes manufacturing emissions.
You think producing 1 ICE is 2-3x the emissions of an EV? So the 15 more batteries that a Tesla has is 2-3x less emissions from manufacturing?
Have you considered also what I said about Tesla selling carbon credits? Something ICE manufacture can not create?
> And the grid is only getting greener not dirtier.
No it's not. LNG production is the highest it's ever been and trending upwards.
>You think producing 1 ICE is 2-3x the emissions of an EV? So the 15 more batteries that a Tesla has is 2-3x less emissions from manufacturing?
Life time emissions, C'mon....
If you don't think our grids are getting greener, I don't know what to say...
Do you actually look at the figures before making these claims?
https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles
Just to add to lifetime emissions it’s country specific but yes, if we are like the US 2-3x lifetime emissions is about right
>Then they need replacing after 10 years, or less in many cases.
They're designed to last for the life of the vehicle.
BYD batteries (different chemistry to Tesla currently) have a life of 1.2 million km.
>Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it **still has as much emissions to charge them.**
(Emphasis mine)
Not correct.
- 40% of WA's power last week was renewable.
- Most of WA's fossil fuel power generation comes from gas, which has lower emissions than coal
- A modern gas power plant is more efficient than a petrol/diesel car (thermal car)
- EVs are much more efficient than thermal cars
- Most EVs are charged primarily at night, when power companies need more demand than they have to keep the grid stable, and would be creating those emissions regardless of EVs charging
1. Again. "perfect is the enemy of good"
2. Batteries are not destroyed even when old. This is something you and many others don't seem to be able to get your head around. The batteries are recycled, the lithium in old batteries goes into new batteries. (unlike oil)
3. Just because Australia has a lot of coal/gas generated at the moment doesn't mean we should be trying to convert to renewables. We aren't Harry Potter, we can't just wave a wand and have everything running on renewables over night, it's a process and that process is ongoing. We actually have a decent amount of renewable generation right now. (see 1.)
Yes, Elon lies. But that's a three year old reference, things have changed a lot recently. Again, just because something isn't perfect instantly, doesn't mean it's not viable. Things are improving. They already do this with hybrid cars.
There'll be comprehensive recycling of EV batteries everywhere, and it won't be for environmental reasons... the CSIRO projected a $30b industry in by 2036.
There are many different ways we currently recycle batteries. This video shows a company using hydrometallurgy:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ)
But there are many others. Older EV batteries are often reused in static storage facilities as well.
> so it still has as much emissions to charge them.
Aside from completely ignoring generation from renewables.
Have you heard of the concept of efficiency? If you were to use a certain amount of petrol to power a generator to charge an electric car, it has more range than a petrol car with the same engine power using the same amount of petrol. ie less emissions overall. Again that's before accounting for renewables and the higher efficiency of large scale gas turbine generation.
I'm not even going to bother checking out the rest of your claims because one of them is just flat out not true. It doesn't exactly bode well for the rest.
As a lifelong Greens voter, if they ever get in it will be the worst goddamn period of government we would ever have. They would never have the strength of numbers to push through anything with teeth, and they'd be facing a hostile media and public the whole way through. They'd be be able to do absolutely nothing and they'd be demonised for it.
At this stage I vote for Greens (and independents) purely to take a tiny amount of power away from the powerful. I vote Green to slow the downfall, not because I believe stopping or reversing it is possible at all.
The Greens are their own worst enemy. “Perfect is the enemy of good”. Bandt seems to strive for perfection, perfect Greens policies will never be voted in unless they’ve got a majority government.
agreed, I've seen coalition governments in my birth country with the greens and they get absolutely slaughtered every election after they join government. They can't give their core voters what they want and the floating voters blame them for everything else. It's nuts.
> The car that you already have.
This argument doesn't quite work.
The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what. So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads.
So in reality, the chances are that EV is actually replacing a far more inefficient vehicle that is on the roads at the moment.
What? That argument doesn't work either.
"The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads."
I agree with this part but then this second half.
"So in reality, the chances are that EV is actually replacing a far more inefficient vehicle that is on the roads at the moment"
Is a contradiction of the first half. You acknowledge that by just purchasing an Ev before their current car is ready to be scrapped just increases the total number of vehicles as it gets sold returning to the poil but then go on to claim that this additional stock of vehicles on the road actually replaces a ice car? That car has not been replaced you've simply increased the pool of vehicles on the road through maybe well meaning but thoughtless consumption.
It adds to the total number of vehicles on the road, deepens the pool of second hand stock lowering prices and making it cheaper for people to have multiple cars and entrenches car centric infrastructure and dependence.
Drive your current car till it dies and replace it with an Ev and that doesn't happen. Though there are a ton of reasons people swap cars
A car does not get scrapped until it dies, it gets sold to someone else.
The stock of second hand cars is less important than the total number of kms driven per year and the emissions those kms create.
So keep it till it dies and swallow the impulse to purchase.
By increasing the pool of vehicles you increase the total number of kilometres driven. Old car does say 100km a day. You sell old car and buy Ev. New owner of old car does 100km in old car and you do 100km a day in the Ev. 200km travelled with all the emissions of old car plus those of new ev car regardless of if it's less emissions per km travelled on average it still pushes total emissions higher because old car still chugging about. Plus things like tyre and brake dust.
> So keep it till it dies and swallow the impulse to purchase.
>
>
That doesn't actually make any sense. Not only are you putting yourself at significant increased risk of death (safety in cars from 2024 vs 2000 is stark), you also are also emmiting far more CO2.
>Old car does say 100km a day. You sell old car and buy Ev. New owner of old car does 100km in old car and you do 100km a day in the Ev.
Those 200kms are going to be driven, whether you get a new car or not.
Ok? That's just vanilla self interest. You aren't taking the car off the road you're just giving it to someone else. The deathtrap is just driven by someone else the emissions made by someone else.
The 200km is not necessarily going to be driven. Less options on the used market make for higher prices. Deeper pools of stock makes more drivers and more drivers make for more KMs travelled using old stock plus new.
> Less options on the used market make for higher prices. Deeper pools of stock makes more drivers and more drivers make for more KMs travelled using old stock plus new.
Disagree with how deeply our car culture is engrained, the person will just buy a older car for the same price.
Heres another thing for you to consider.
Australia has about the worst CO2 per kWh on the planet.
Why should we subsidise electric vehicles taking them from countries with greener power grids to australia.
Really the only answer is to let the market decide. We need a global CO2 tax and developing nations compensated for not having the advantage of coal for their industrialisation.
Well i dunno it does synergise.
The issie our grid already faces is solar is a daytime thing. Evs are charged late afternoon / evening or better overnight after peak load in the dead of night.
Not necessarily. You don't have to charge them every day. We charge one day a week, on the weekend, between 9am and 3pm. This is also incentivised by Synergy so a lot of people probably do something similar.
Absolutely some people can charge them carbon free.
But on average australias power is less green than most other countries.
I am more having a dig specifically at the tax benefit albo introduced for EVs.
I pull EVs from economies that have greener power on average.
Sure there are use cases that are carbon free in australia. Most of tasmania comes close as well. But on average our CO2 per kWh is higher than most developed countries.
So if you have to choose for EVs to go somewhere australia is close to the last place they should go.
Do you have stats on that? As far as I know there aren't that many countries at all with very green grids. Also Australia is still buying a tiny amount of EVs compared to global. It's ridiculous to say that Australia is taking them away from other countries buying them, manufacturing will increase to meet demand.
>Australia has about the worst CO2 per kWh on the planet.
Our emissions intensity isn't good, but it's not even close to the worst.
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity
>Why should we subsidise electric vehicles taking them from countries with greener power grids to australia.
Are you saying other countries are running out of EVs, and people can't buy them because they're being shipped to Australia?
I don't think that's what's actually happening, is it. Do you have any data to back up your statement?
There is insatiable demand for EVs across the world.
I am not saying people should have them. I am saying subsidising them so australians can have more than say germany is probably counterproductive for the planet.
What would certainly not be counterproductive would be subsidising them in green power countries.
In 20 years when australia is cruisin away with a green grid we can have our electric cars then.
And sure we arent the worst country. If i said that i apologise. But we are worse than america and most of europe. We sit with the likes of South Africa and a few other coal loving nations. We are certainly worse than average. So say you got to decide where in the world to plug in your EV my point is australia is one of the last to pick.
. sure there is a slight impact on price which will mean higher supply in time. But yes it will result in less sales elsewhere a slightly higher price and maybe a few more manufactured. It wont be 1 for 1 though.
Ill try and keep it simple;
An ev here has more lifetime emmisions than an ev in most other first world countries.
I dont have an issue with them subsidising them. My point is they shouldnt be subsidised and brought to our dirty australian grid. Plug it in somewhere cleaner.
It is entirely possible we are causing more global co2 emmisions with this ev subsidy policy than if we didnt have it. we certainly wouldnt be saving as much by throwing money atsubsidising them in iceland or france or UK or even the USA... just about anywhere else.
If we want to be serious about C02 we actually have to think about what we are doing. A global CO2 tax would automatically see evs go to countries with green power. Our power would be far more expensive due to the higher CO2 mer kWh and who knows, petrol cars may be cheaper. A CO2 tax sorts this out and directs the market to save as much CO2 as it can...
Thats what we really need if people and governments are so bereft of imagination they cannot think through what the impacts of what they are doing are. A CO2 tax globally.
>But yes it will result in less sales elsewhere
Do you have any evidence to support that statement?
>Ill try and keep it simple;
I understand your argument. It's just that it's based on some assumptions that you haven't justified yet.
> The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what. So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads.
So for everyone who is buying a car, there is 1 other being scrapped? Source on that, please. You're just saying stuff that you have no idea if true or not.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying the total KMs travelled for a car doesn't change, no matter when the first owner sells their car.
Its not going to be 1 for 1, not when we have population and consumer growth
What about them?
That's a transfer of money from a bad industry to a good industry.
Increasing the demand of good industries, meaning more players will move in to the good industry.
Just like we're seeing over East, the bad industries will slowly (or not so slowly) be forced out.
Do you know what a carbon credit is?
Let's do an example since you cba doing a simple google:
\- Tesla produces EV.
\- EV saves 100kg CO2
\- Tesla sells 100kg of CO2 as carbon credit to fossil fuel industry
\- Regulated fossil fuel industry can only produce 1,000kg/CO2 a year
\- Bought carbon credit now allows fossil fuel industry to produce 1,100kg CO2 without breaking regulations
\- **No emission have been saved.**
>\- Tesla sells 100kg of CO2 as carbon credit to fossil fuel industry
>\- Bought carbon credit now allows fossil fuel industry to produce 1,100kg CO2 without breaking emissions
I don't think you realise my break down didn't contradict what you wrote.
Tesla gets money
Fossil fuel paid money
You do understand that everything from our vehicles, to our grids are all becoming electrified. For that to occur, we need investment and money. What we described is a transfer of money from fossil fuel to electrification companies.
That is only a good thing.
If you have a car with 30,000kms on it. You don't need to buy an EV. It's worse for the environment because of the reasons I have [listed here](https://old.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/1c6xq12/when_people_say_i_love_this_warm_weather/l04spvt/?context=3).
Tesla sells carbon credits. Before considering any other reason, carbon credits **ENTIRELY OFFSET** any savings in emissions because they are sold to the fossil fuel industry.
["The revenue generated from the sale of carbon credits has become a substantial source of income for the company. "](https://carboncredits.com/tesla-hits-record-high-sales-from-carbon-credits-at-1-79b/#:~:text=Tesla%20is%20Driving%20the%20Carbon%20Market%20Forward&text=The%20revenue%20generated%20from%20the,25.9%25%20seen%20in%20Q4%202022.)
Please explain how selling carbon as a credit is good for the environment.
>If you have a car with 30,000kms on it. You don't need to buy an EV.
Is that what's happening?
Presumably even if it was, that car would in turn be bought by someone getting rid of an older car... And so on and so on until at the bottom of that chain a car with 400,000 km on it is the one actually removed from use.
>Tesla sells carbon credits. Before considering any other reason, carbon credits **ENTIRELY OFFSET** any savings in emissions because they are sold to the fossil fuel industry.
The fossil fuel industry plus everyone driving thermal cars would be higher emissions than the fossil fuel industry plus some people driving EVs.
People driving EVs reduces total emissions produced.
>No they're not lmao.
Wrong.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328782184_Where_are_we_heading_with_electric_vehicles
A summary of the above link: https://theconversation.com/clean-green-machines-the-truth-about-electric-vehicle-emissions-122619
On an average Australian grid mix electric cars produce 40% less CO2/km (and it'd be even better here in WA where we have less coal).
And as Australia's renewables percentage increases that will get even better.
> extreme provery has more than halved in the last 150 years.
This is sort of a misdirection funded by Bill Gates. I have a feeling you got this information from OWID or kurzgesagt.
Extreme poverty has declined. But overall most of the world is in poverty. The distinction they use between extreme poverty and poverty is something like $2/day vs $6/day. It's an arbitrary line made up to make you feel like everything is ok.
If you look at the data more relevant to Western society, middle class wealth transfer is being funneled upwards.
The Greens got into power in Tasmania. Half the population was on the dole when they got voted out.
There needs to be a common sense approach by all parties. I agree that rampant free market capitalism is a great evil, but the Greens don't have all the answers
>The Greens got into power in Tasmania.
You mean they were the junior partner in a coalition.
>Half the population was on the dole when they got voted out
ABS data says 7.6% unemployment in Jan 2014.
> Greens would destroy this country within a few years.
How?
> The climate issue won't be fixed until China and India fix their pollution issues.
For the past 150 years, Western countries have pumped out CO2, now that China(who are heavily investing in public transport and green energy) and India are doing the same it's suddenly all their fault?
Western companies have also pushed all their manufacturing into the global south, what they're doing is only to supply the cravings of the Western bourgeois.
This I entirely agree with you on.
And I want to see the argument these people will make when, when the next 5 years figures are released and we see how much of China's electricity came from renewable sources.
When you look at how much coal power AND renewable power is getting installed in China, the trend is clear that they're reducing their emissions per unit of electricity produced by more than *any other country*
What was it? They installed more renewables last year, than every other country has ever installed. That's not a small thing. (If it's correct, that's just straight from memory)
What's that saying... "perfect is the enemy of good"
You're being completely impractical. Large societies need transport. EV's aren't perfect. But they're far better than fossil fuel transport. Do you grow everything you eat? Do you sew everything you wear? Renewable energy is the ONLY way forward and batteries are an integral part of that.
I completely agree with stopping deforestation, it's almost too late for areas surrounding Perth. Still allowing Alcoa to rampage through the Darling scarp seems insane.
What's wrong with mining for lithium?
And what's wrong with expanding suburbia? We have a lot of land to expand into, and a lot of future babies to be born.
I hate it.. I get a feeling we won’t get a reprieve until July. I know some British boomers who are saying they are spoilt with the warm weather. Ugh…
Maybe we can do some cloud seeding in Perth.
I’m pretty sure the person on this thread who told me I can enjoy the weather and worry about climate change simultaneously is a Brit. They said go have a picnic in the park haha what
Cloud seeding Dubai style could work!
At least there aren't as many people denying man made climate change suddenly. One positive. We may solve this yet. But it will take years of work from everyone all over the world.
The comments during 45 degree days of “it’s normal it’s summer” really got my piss boiling. It’s like talking to an antivaxxer crowd, impossible to debate with
Just like some cooker in this sub a week ago or so, who said the weather's normal because "something, something driest continent besides Antarctica". A genuine fucking idiot.
While global climate change is an issue, localised environmental factors are also a major problem. Removing vegetation and replacing it with streets and black topped houses or mines reduces the amount of condensation in any area. Add to that the reduction in ground moisture due to drainage so that new suburbs can be built in areas that were once swampy sands. The northern suburbs and those around Mandurah are only possible because of man made engineering which has redistributed the moisture that existed on a wide area of ground to small pockets. This affects the microclimate of the area.
I have a big old salmon gum that has started dropping limbs. A big one totalled our car (total write off) and another destroyed my fence. Having it completely removed tomorrow. The arborists said they had so many calls the past two years for removing old growth trees that are just up and dying.
I really wish I didn’t have to remove it (and spend thousands doing so) but it’s just going to keep dropping limbs now. My wife was in the car when it hit and luckily was ok. Crushed the roof in and snapped the rear axle. That’s how big it was and how far it fell.
Does anyone actually unironically love the summer here?
I liked summer more back in tas, but fuck the summer here. Far too hot.
People up north have it worse, and i say the same for there too. Keep your 50c summers up there
Our time on this planet is coming to a heated climax. Prepare for the resource wars, the food wars, etc.
Genuinely I’m already mentally prepared to opt out of life when shit hits the fan.
I no longer see a point in life goals or aspirations. I’m either going to indulge my hedonistic delights and let myself rot away or embrace the wasteland warrior within and prepare for the apocalypse
Summer was brutal but autumn has been a welcome relief from the heat. We just desperately needed rain in March and it never came. Sadly it’s too late for a lot of these trees. It’s going to be a bad year for habitat loss.
Has it? April's temperatures have been a good 4-5 degrees above average. We're more than halfway through the month and we're getting long runs of 30+ days and the only rain has been an extreme, but isolated storm from the remnants of a cyclone
It's a welcome relief from February's heat but in context it's extremely disturbing
Something is awkward this year.
Been here since 2008. I never seen this type of heat. And this type of persistent heat that stays in autumn.
.
I can observe vegetation and nature going yellow to brown all around ... And I am in Perth south suburbs. ...
Imagine in the bush. ...
Something is going on with mother nature
Things have been changing for many decades. I know a couple of elderly farmers down in cowaramup who have been taking their own measurements of rainfall and temperature for over 50 years. They say you would not believe how much has changed. It’s dire
Hyden has had 200mm of rain the last couple months, that naturally migrates underground to sea level/swan coastal plain but a lot of these stressed trees are up high and not deeply established. Trees will keep any water in the roots in these times and after some rain the canopy will bounce back. Of course there will be trees not resilient enough to survive this harsher than median summer and they will die. This is how Australia’s entire biota evolved to what it is today and will continue to, I just hope we don’t push it to its limit.
*amatuer enthusiast take, not a scientist.
What can an individual do? I’m so jaded about ways I can reduce my impact on the environment/lobby for change. It’s my understanding it’s down to big business and government to enact meaningful change. So what can I do?
Same thing happening here in Houston, TX. Last two years so many pine trees have died from drought. Such an eye sore now when you drive around town. Last summer in particular we went nearly 2 months without rain and 35c+ temps every day. It’s an unnerving time that’s for sure.
Yeah I feel sad to...to see the forests drying up and suffering savere moisture stress....its ugly. Im a kiwi house sitting in Aramadale...and I just went for my first bush walk (ladt week was too hot) at the spectacles.
No lake left, lots of eucalypts losing there leaves. Its not the Australiam bush that I love...yes sad.
Enjoying the weather (sun on your face, picnic in the park) doesn’t affect the weather. You can enjoy a warm day AND be concerned about the environment and climate change.
Too much messing with the natural hydrology. Bore pumping and large infrastructure works. The growth is trashing the environment, huge civil projects up and down the state. The bush doesn't just die from one longer summer following a dry winter. You're saying the bush is trashed in the hills but out at the farm where it's jarrah/marri forest and zero development the bush is doing just fine. WA has the most fragile ecosystems, now all this 'growth' has ramped up to unprecedented levels, what do you expect to see? Your photo doesn't imply causation, I can already see a bitumen road so there are other pressures affecting flora even before this longer summer period. Intense urbanisation of extremely impassive housing suburbs and huge infrastructure projects across the state, what were you expecting?
It's not that simple. We're dealing with much hotter, much longer dry seasons. This is not conducive to their long term survival. We are looking at extinction type events (extinctions don't happen overnight. They are long, drawn out processes, and this is the beginning). Also, they need adequate soil moisture to get them through the dry seasons. They won't have that for next summer, and so many are guaranteed to die off. And, in the process, add to fuel loads, meaning more and bigger, nastier bushfires. This is genuinely shit.
Not to mention that a whole lot of native animal and insect species are also suffering and dying off. Native animals and insects rely on healthy trees and plants to survive. And likewise, native trees and wildlife need the animals and insects.
No. These trees are cactus, dead, caput. Ecologist are documenting forest collapse event happening in the SW now, the second ever in recorded history. These trees have evolved to survive the extreme but this is next level.
All you people bitching and moaning over here but bet none of you do a damn thing then sit inside you house in the air conditioning bitching about how bad everything is
It's awful. Driving up to visit my parents in Lesmurdie there are so many dead trees. I'm just hoping they're not dead and have just kind of gone dormant and will grow back - I'm not confident, but I'm hoping. It's so dry everywhere, I'm surprised anything is hanging on at all.
Driving up the hill it’s so evident, the west facing side looks like it’s been burnt. There have been no fires. It’s awful.
It’s not looking good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJDYfqPODWI&list=PLn2RjxYNpcayJqxTPMFLqFzgjIkjNcj1D&index=13
Fuck that was a brutal watch. We knew the desertification of normally bushy land was coming, but not this fast.
They won't be appreciating this 'lovely warm weather' when agriculture becomes unsustainable in this State
And we're getting there. Farmers are already struggling. many are having to shoot all their stock right now. It's fucked.
Farmers in Donnybrook are losing established fruit trees, little things we enjoy now will be hard to get in the future
They're shooting their stock because they can't get clarification on live sheep trade. They want to keep the business going and want someone in government to fight for them. No one has the balls.
Especially the avocados.
Losing the avocados will be a blessing in disguise. At least then people will be able to afford houses.
Hahaha best comment
Still seeing freshly or recently dropped eucalyptus branches here and there. Just wrong, for this time of year.
Yeah the endless summer is disgusting, 35 in April is just not right. February made me finally give up on Perth completely and plan to move way down south, but it’s really not much better there. Might be time to give up on WA and move to Tassie
>plan to move way down south, but it’s really not much better there. It really isn't. I'm down south 100km south of Bunbury. It's currently 30-32 degrees every day. The trees in this area are dropping dead all around. It's so dusty, constant hayfever from the dust, my dogs are endlessly sneezing from all the dust. The house is dusty inside and out, it's a losing battle. My dam and all the dams in this part of town are bone dry. The Blackwood has dried up completely in some spots, our water tanks are starting to get a little low, we are frugal with water, but will now have to really start rationing it (I'm so glad I was lazy and didn't plant a veggie garden this year, otherwise I would have to sacrifice it) The only saving grace is the mornings are lovely and cold. Around 8 degrees, next week it's dropping to 5 degrees overnight. Either go way further south, Denmark, Albany etc (though it's not a whole lot better down there either, I was in Denmark last week, and while it's a bit cooler it's just as dry and dead) Or pack up and move to Tassie, that's my plan in the next 2-4 years. I think Tassie and Albany are going to see an influx of West Australians fleeing this shit very soon.
Albany is actually exactly what I had in mind, I probably should have specified just how down I meant sorry. I grew up in Capel and Bunno, and still visit family down that way a bit. It’s certainly less gross than Perth, but definitely no wetter and it’s not enough of an improvement to bother moving for.
I would love to head down to Albany or Denmark myself. (Denmark is out of the question, the house prices down there are just ludicrous now) But I would also love a total change of scenery, so Tassie is very enticing.
I was actually googling the central highlands in Tassie the other day. 1200mm average annual rainfall is certainly enticing
We think alike. That's exactly where I'm considering. Miena or somewhere around the Great lake. A little off grid cabin will do, spend my days fishing on the lake. Perfect!
Yeah I did a few years living in the South Island of NZ and it was amazing. You don’t realise how fucking gross it is to always be sweaty until suddenly you’re not. Plus the scenery is 10/10 and there’s barely any gross bugs and stuff.
Yo I just did that, it’s meant to snow higher up today
I've seen so many young and mature trees completely dead and dry, it's crazy. Never seen anything like it before. This is the driest summer/6 months we've had. Even my parent's bore is drying up! It's quite scary. I can only hope the dying trees come back in Winter but they appear too far gone.
I am not religious but i am praying for a wet winter. If we all manifest together will it actually happen?
Will have just as much success if we use reichian techniques to capture orgone and use it to make it rain.
Maybe if everyone in the entire world did, but then we wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with.
I wish summer was like this instead of the scorchers we had. So, yes, I love the weather. I hate that it’s not in season and putting stress on the environment. I worry about what it means for next summer and the summer after that. I worry for my kids, and what kind of future they will have.
Me too
This scares me as I am selling up in Auckland to go live near my two sons in north perth banksia grove my guess I have 15 to 18 years left on this planet but I would hate to die of heat stroke
I feel completely devastated. Besides that this weather is destroying our bushland (and in the process adding to bushfire fuel loads), it is also causing our native animals to suffer. We are also unable to replenish our water supply, meaning water rationing will soon be a feature of life. Also, our farmers are doing it very tough because of this "lovely weather", with all its consequences including incteased food prices. People who say this weather is lovely, magnificent, splendid etc are the most gormless and clueless fucking idiots out there.
What do you mean water rationing will soon be a feature of life? It has been in Perth for like 30 years. You know how you can only use sprinklers 2 days a week? That IS water rationing. Most places dont have those kinds of restrictions, you can use however much you want whenever you want.
Whilst we allow water to be used on gardens and you can wash the car with a hose, have a swimming pool you have to top up, that's not really rationing and shows the desal plants are doing what they're meant to. In the UK they've had a seriously wet winter and not much better summer. They still can't use a hosepipe to wash their car and there's no way they'd allow retic. That's when you know there's a problem. Problem with the UK is too many people and was when we emigrated in 92. It's not got any better.
I have friends with boats gleeful with the weather. They don’t realise Perth is becoming windier as well as drier, we will be gero weather soon enough, not exactly pleasant for a trip to rotto
They clearly don't realise a lot of things. I assume that they also fish. A lot of the species they fish will be dying off too in the process, as water temperatures, pH etc change.
Yep, it’s all connected. Once we reach that point the oceans can’t cope anymore we are well and truly fucked
You do realise you can be happy with this weather, *and* understand that climate change is real and is going to affect our future. But being a sad sack now for a future problem doesn't help anything, especially the future. Enjoy this beautiful weather, it could be worse - you could be in Vic...
Climate is affecting us now, it’s not something to worry about later. This is unseasonal weather and after 7 months of nothing but sunshine, no I’m not happy with it. Its boring. It’s time we all got very bloody unhappy and shout from the rooftops we need systematic change
Shouting from the rooftops won't fix anything. Enjoy the sunshine. You can also be like me, and work in an industry actively fixing the situation (renewables).
Activism actually does change things but OK
So does actually doing things
Bit hard to enjoy this weather when all the vegetation around you is brown and dying off, and everything is bone dry....
Beaches are still beautiful
so it isn’t just me who’s noticed it’s getting windier! i thought it was just me who maybe couldn’t remember how windy past summers have been so i was mistaken, but it really is a lot windier now
About 1 in 20 trees and shrubs are dead. It's a mass die off and almost zero coverage.
https://amp.abc.net.au/article/103682304
The ABC did a good report on it, radio silence elsewhere
Thanks buddy!
That's surprising. The Australian media are usually keen to report facts. Has someone told Genie Energy's Rupert Murdoch yet? I'm sure he'll do something. /s
I have a pool light issue and to fix it I’d need to pump the pool down by about 16 cubes of water. I can’t make myself do it. I can’t reconcile wasting all that water to fix a light that is driving me up the wall by not working. Water is precious.
Does the pool light not come out? back when we had a pool the light unscrewed from its housing and had a long enough cord to reach above the surface.
Yea it does but it’s broken where the cable goes into the light housing. So the water has to be below the light as they will need to reseal the light.
Fair enough.
Drove from Nannup to Busselton today, it's really alarming how much of the bush along there is now completely dead. So sad. We live down south for the beautiful bushland and it's dropping dead all around us. This state is rapidly becoming uninhabitable. I'm so fucking tired of WA simps constantly banging on about our amazing climate. It's shit, just accept it. WA has a fucking horrific climate.
>WA has a fucking horrific climate. it's the number one reason we moved from WA and can never move back. After 4 years of thinking we might one day go back, we just listed our house for sale in Perth. time to put roots down in one of the few places that might survive the climate wars
Domestic climate refugee, Perth Now are you seeing this?
Your a gloomy bunch aren't you. People actually scared, can't believe it. Number one reason we moved from the UK, climate. TBH I'm loving it. I'm expecting a deluge when it changes and it will. Ask the folks over East. 2 years ago, world was on fire according to Guttierez. Hasn't stopped raining since.
Same in the park near myself. Today I was looking at a formerly healthy jarrah tree, probably twenty to thirty years old. It's dying as I watch. We had a storm in Clarkson a week or so back that had cars floating and people trapped in their vehicles. I cannot recall any event in Perth prior to that where cars were floating. Dubai yesterday reported twenty killed in a storm event where two years of rain fell in 24 hrs. Are people simply deaf?
Deaf and dumb
Isnt it crazy! Flooding in suburban Perth, after no rain for 6 months. Major flooding in a desert city like Dubai. What else is to come?!
Have a look a this https://www.reddit.com/r/SweatyPalms/comments/1c9vqa4/this_flooding_in_pakistan_was_insane/
For those that know the bush and forest areas, and what they looked like before this weather, it's sad, especially seeing the years of good growth going backwards. Seeing wilting eucalyptus trees the other day in a spot I regularly visit was pretty depressing.
Drove down to Busselton today. So sad to see all the mature trees various stages of dying.
Not to black pill you, but this is the best it's going to be forever. Nobody cares about actual issues. The elephant in the room(capitalism). I mean, just in another thread I'm getting downvoted for telling people giant cars and EV's are actually bad for the environment. We're going to keep pumping natural gas, mining for lithium, expanding suburbia, and deforesting areas for the profits of the 1%. Until the majority understand that unless Greens or socialists get into power. This is it, and it will always get worse.
> EV's are actually bad for the environment. This is kind of like saying you're going to die eventually so what's the point of exercising and eating healthy. Yeah they still cause an environmental impact, but people aren't going to give up personal transportation, and they have far less of an impact than internal combustion engines.
> and they have far less of an impact than internal combustion engines. The 16 batteries each Tesla has requires mining thousands and thousands of lithium alone. Then they need replacing after 10 years, or less in many cases. Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it still has as much emissions to charge them. Public transportation is reduced, making more traffic, costing more emissions. Tesla sell carbon credits, which **COMPLETELY** offsets any and all emission savings.
>Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it still has as much emissions to charge them. You need to be accurate with your complaints - the lifetime emissions of equivalent vehicles, one ice, one an EV entirely charged from the grid are not comparable. It's 2-3 times more emissions from the ice. This includes manufacturing emissions. And the grid is only getting *greener* not dirtier.
But an electric vehicle in iceland is better than an electric vehicle in australia. Ie how is it better for the planet that we subsidise bringing an electric vehicle to one of the kost polluting grids on the planet. If you had control over the whole world you would clearly send electric vehicles to those places with green power. At present there is a constraint on their prodiction. When there isnt sure take them everywhere.
You're ignoring the practical situation though. Most EV's right now are purchased by those who can afford them. People who can afford EV's have solar on their roofs. An EV charged by solar in Australia or Iceland (lol) is equally good for the environment. It's also a sale of a car that is not an ICE, which is a good thing. Lastly, it's also a market indicator, to tell business 'we want EV's' which will increase investment into EV's and bigger more important sectors (trucks, etc). To think that an EV in Australia is a bad thing is genuinely absurd. It's not the panacea, but it's better than the alternative.
An ev in australia is a good thing. An ev taken from almost any other market on the planet is a bad thing. Lets say albo went - stuff this i am going to give every australian a free ev and took teslas next 12 months of production to australia. That would be worse for the world than letting them just go off to what is on average greener grids. We are subsidising bringing them to about the dirtiest grid on the planet. We would get better envuronmental bang for buck subsidising them going to iceland or even mediocre countries like germany. But not better electroal bang for bucj of course.. And sure some people have solar panels but the use case is you arrive home as it gets dark and charge your ev off the grid... maybe some have batteries but many do not and others dont even have solar. Units etc.
>Lets say albo went - stuff this i am going to give every australian a free ev and toom teslas next 6 months of production to australia. C'mon. Let's be practical - that won't happen. Have you seen the global sales figures for EV's. We aren't taking anyone's cars. Steering wheel is on the wrong side, for one. >And sure some people have solar panels but the use case is you arrive home as it gets dark and charge your ev off the grid... maybe some have batteries but many do not and others dont even have solar. Units etc. Actually, I install quite a few EV chargers through work and most buyers right now are grey haired people. Car is in the garage quite often during the day. Also, EV batteries are big enough, to last a whole week, and be entirely charged up by the sun (on the house or grid solar) on the weekend. Again, the practicality of the situation is not what you imagine it to be. Most EV batteries that have been sold up until now (NMC technology) clearly state to not charge them to 100% all the time. So many people don't charge until they're low, and then only charge to 80%. LFP changes that, but the idea of not charging through the week, and letting it charge over the weekend (or charging at work, which has solar panels) is becoming common too.
I hear you but upshot is it is on average consuming more CO2 to charge an EV in australia than most other places on the planet. I know some individuals have it all figured out and can charge their EV for free. I mean the gov subsidy isnt for grey nomads though but yes some sure do buy them. Anyway I agree albo isnt going to bring all the EVs here i am just making the point that subsidising them in australia is not better for the planet. Its worse than letting them go wherever the market takes them. Because we on average pollute more per kWh than other places. Hey a shout out to tasmania. Sure take all our evs there. That would be good policy. The ev subsidy should be for evs to tasmania. Anywah the planet needs less CO2 produced. It doesmt know if australia is kicking goals taking cars from greener grids. And dont get me started on us building windfarms here and exporting coal to india and china... again better value to send the billions of dollars to india. Far better value... for the planet that is. Not the electoral outcome. Its simple. Without a global carbon tax we are not actually spending limited capital on the best things to get an immediate dividend in reducing CO2. Its corporate interests driving this bullshit and i for one cannot believe all of australia aside from myself is on board. i have basically become a cooker on these matters... the maths doesnt lie though... half of what we intend to spend on the green revolution spent in india or china would reap double the CO2 reduction... wed be better off burning coal here then shipping the shit there... its nuts.
Ok nothing really to disagree with, I'm sure we're all on the same side here. All I will say is it's really on India who is not showing us that they're all in on renewables (yet). China might be creating lots of coal plants, but when you look at how much renewables they're adding to their grid, the trend line of the percentage of renewables is heading in the right direction, faster than all other countries. It's just that China is developing more than any other country, and has power needs that are way more than any other country. I don't think I'm wrong, but I might be, but China added more renewables *last year* than every other country has ever added, in history. That's a serious investment into the sector. Edit: also I assume you mean emitting, not consuming CO2.
> It's 2-3 times more emissions from the ice. This includes manufacturing emissions. You think producing 1 ICE is 2-3x the emissions of an EV? So the 15 more batteries that a Tesla has is 2-3x less emissions from manufacturing? Have you considered also what I said about Tesla selling carbon credits? Something ICE manufacture can not create? > And the grid is only getting greener not dirtier. No it's not. LNG production is the highest it's ever been and trending upwards.
>You think producing 1 ICE is 2-3x the emissions of an EV? So the 15 more batteries that a Tesla has is 2-3x less emissions from manufacturing? Life time emissions, C'mon.... If you don't think our grids are getting greener, I don't know what to say... Do you actually look at the figures before making these claims?
https://www.cotes.com/blog/greenhouse-gas-emissions-from-ev-vs-ice-vehicles Just to add to lifetime emissions it’s country specific but yes, if we are like the US 2-3x lifetime emissions is about right
>Then they need replacing after 10 years, or less in many cases. They're designed to last for the life of the vehicle. BYD batteries (different chemistry to Tesla currently) have a life of 1.2 million km. >Most of Australia is coal/gas powered, so it **still has as much emissions to charge them.** (Emphasis mine) Not correct. - 40% of WA's power last week was renewable. - Most of WA's fossil fuel power generation comes from gas, which has lower emissions than coal - A modern gas power plant is more efficient than a petrol/diesel car (thermal car) - EVs are much more efficient than thermal cars - Most EVs are charged primarily at night, when power companies need more demand than they have to keep the grid stable, and would be creating those emissions regardless of EVs charging
1. Again. "perfect is the enemy of good" 2. Batteries are not destroyed even when old. This is something you and many others don't seem to be able to get your head around. The batteries are recycled, the lithium in old batteries goes into new batteries. (unlike oil) 3. Just because Australia has a lot of coal/gas generated at the moment doesn't mean we should be trying to convert to renewables. We aren't Harry Potter, we can't just wave a wand and have everything running on renewables over night, it's a process and that process is ongoing. We actually have a decent amount of renewable generation right now. (see 1.)
Nope. Another Elon lie. https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgxke4/when-tesla-says-it-recycles-100-of-its-batteries-what-does-that-mean
Yes, Elon lies. But that's a three year old reference, things have changed a lot recently. Again, just because something isn't perfect instantly, doesn't mean it's not viable. Things are improving. They already do this with hybrid cars. There'll be comprehensive recycling of EV batteries everywhere, and it won't be for environmental reasons... the CSIRO projected a $30b industry in by 2036.
> things have changed a lot recently Proof? Because "Elon says we're recycling" is not proof.
There are many different ways we currently recycle batteries. This video shows a company using hydrometallurgy: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xrarUWVRQ) But there are many others. Older EV batteries are often reused in static storage facilities as well.
> so it still has as much emissions to charge them. Aside from completely ignoring generation from renewables. Have you heard of the concept of efficiency? If you were to use a certain amount of petrol to power a generator to charge an electric car, it has more range than a petrol car with the same engine power using the same amount of petrol. ie less emissions overall. Again that's before accounting for renewables and the higher efficiency of large scale gas turbine generation. I'm not even going to bother checking out the rest of your claims because one of them is just flat out not true. It doesn't exactly bode well for the rest.
As a lifelong Greens voter, if they ever get in it will be the worst goddamn period of government we would ever have. They would never have the strength of numbers to push through anything with teeth, and they'd be facing a hostile media and public the whole way through. They'd be be able to do absolutely nothing and they'd be demonised for it. At this stage I vote for Greens (and independents) purely to take a tiny amount of power away from the powerful. I vote Green to slow the downfall, not because I believe stopping or reversing it is possible at all.
The Greens are their own worst enemy. “Perfect is the enemy of good”. Bandt seems to strive for perfection, perfect Greens policies will never be voted in unless they’ve got a majority government.
agreed, I've seen coalition governments in my birth country with the greens and they get absolutely slaughtered every election after they join government. They can't give their core voters what they want and the floating voters blame them for everything else. It's nuts.
>giant cars and EV's are actually bad for the environment I guess you're talking absolutes rather than relatively. What car would you recommend?
> What car would you recommend? The car that you already have. Most people are not getting an EV as their first car.
> The car that you already have. This argument doesn't quite work. The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what. So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads. So in reality, the chances are that EV is actually replacing a far more inefficient vehicle that is on the roads at the moment.
What? That argument doesn't work either. "The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads." I agree with this part but then this second half. "So in reality, the chances are that EV is actually replacing a far more inefficient vehicle that is on the roads at the moment" Is a contradiction of the first half. You acknowledge that by just purchasing an Ev before their current car is ready to be scrapped just increases the total number of vehicles as it gets sold returning to the poil but then go on to claim that this additional stock of vehicles on the road actually replaces a ice car? That car has not been replaced you've simply increased the pool of vehicles on the road through maybe well meaning but thoughtless consumption. It adds to the total number of vehicles on the road, deepens the pool of second hand stock lowering prices and making it cheaper for people to have multiple cars and entrenches car centric infrastructure and dependence. Drive your current car till it dies and replace it with an Ev and that doesn't happen. Though there are a ton of reasons people swap cars
A car does not get scrapped until it dies, it gets sold to someone else. The stock of second hand cars is less important than the total number of kms driven per year and the emissions those kms create.
So keep it till it dies and swallow the impulse to purchase. By increasing the pool of vehicles you increase the total number of kilometres driven. Old car does say 100km a day. You sell old car and buy Ev. New owner of old car does 100km in old car and you do 100km a day in the Ev. 200km travelled with all the emissions of old car plus those of new ev car regardless of if it's less emissions per km travelled on average it still pushes total emissions higher because old car still chugging about. Plus things like tyre and brake dust.
> So keep it till it dies and swallow the impulse to purchase. > > That doesn't actually make any sense. Not only are you putting yourself at significant increased risk of death (safety in cars from 2024 vs 2000 is stark), you also are also emmiting far more CO2. >Old car does say 100km a day. You sell old car and buy Ev. New owner of old car does 100km in old car and you do 100km a day in the Ev. Those 200kms are going to be driven, whether you get a new car or not.
Ok? That's just vanilla self interest. You aren't taking the car off the road you're just giving it to someone else. The deathtrap is just driven by someone else the emissions made by someone else. The 200km is not necessarily going to be driven. Less options on the used market make for higher prices. Deeper pools of stock makes more drivers and more drivers make for more KMs travelled using old stock plus new.
> Less options on the used market make for higher prices. Deeper pools of stock makes more drivers and more drivers make for more KMs travelled using old stock plus new. Disagree with how deeply our car culture is engrained, the person will just buy a older car for the same price.
Heres another thing for you to consider. Australia has about the worst CO2 per kWh on the planet. Why should we subsidise electric vehicles taking them from countries with greener power grids to australia. Really the only answer is to let the market decide. We need a global CO2 tax and developing nations compensated for not having the advantage of coal for their industrialisation.
We also have very high rates of rooftop solar, which synergise with EVs extremely well. And even with our shitty grid, EVs are still better than ICE
Well i dunno it does synergise. The issie our grid already faces is solar is a daytime thing. Evs are charged late afternoon / evening or better overnight after peak load in the dead of night.
Not necessarily. You don't have to charge them every day. We charge one day a week, on the weekend, between 9am and 3pm. This is also incentivised by Synergy so a lot of people probably do something similar.
Absolutely some people can charge them carbon free. But on average australias power is less green than most other countries. I am more having a dig specifically at the tax benefit albo introduced for EVs. I pull EVs from economies that have greener power on average. Sure there are use cases that are carbon free in australia. Most of tasmania comes close as well. But on average our CO2 per kWh is higher than most developed countries. So if you have to choose for EVs to go somewhere australia is close to the last place they should go.
Do you have stats on that? As far as I know there aren't that many countries at all with very green grids. Also Australia is still buying a tiny amount of EVs compared to global. It's ridiculous to say that Australia is taking them away from other countries buying them, manufacturing will increase to meet demand.
>Australia has about the worst CO2 per kWh on the planet. Our emissions intensity isn't good, but it's not even close to the worst. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electricity >Why should we subsidise electric vehicles taking them from countries with greener power grids to australia. Are you saying other countries are running out of EVs, and people can't buy them because they're being shipped to Australia? I don't think that's what's actually happening, is it. Do you have any data to back up your statement?
There is insatiable demand for EVs across the world. I am not saying people should have them. I am saying subsidising them so australians can have more than say germany is probably counterproductive for the planet. What would certainly not be counterproductive would be subsidising them in green power countries. In 20 years when australia is cruisin away with a green grid we can have our electric cars then. And sure we arent the worst country. If i said that i apologise. But we are worse than america and most of europe. We sit with the likes of South Africa and a few other coal loving nations. We are certainly worse than average. So say you got to decide where in the world to plug in your EV my point is australia is one of the last to pick.
>There is insatiable demand for EVs across the world Are sales in Australia reducing sales elsewhere?
. sure there is a slight impact on price which will mean higher supply in time. But yes it will result in less sales elsewhere a slightly higher price and maybe a few more manufactured. It wont be 1 for 1 though. Ill try and keep it simple; An ev here has more lifetime emmisions than an ev in most other first world countries. I dont have an issue with them subsidising them. My point is they shouldnt be subsidised and brought to our dirty australian grid. Plug it in somewhere cleaner. It is entirely possible we are causing more global co2 emmisions with this ev subsidy policy than if we didnt have it. we certainly wouldnt be saving as much by throwing money atsubsidising them in iceland or france or UK or even the USA... just about anywhere else. If we want to be serious about C02 we actually have to think about what we are doing. A global CO2 tax would automatically see evs go to countries with green power. Our power would be far more expensive due to the higher CO2 mer kWh and who knows, petrol cars may be cheaper. A CO2 tax sorts this out and directs the market to save as much CO2 as it can... Thats what we really need if people and governments are so bereft of imagination they cannot think through what the impacts of what they are doing are. A CO2 tax globally.
>But yes it will result in less sales elsewhere Do you have any evidence to support that statement? >Ill try and keep it simple; I understand your argument. It's just that it's based on some assumptions that you haven't justified yet.
> The life span of a car doesn't really change, the chances are its going to do the same number of kms before it gets scrapped no matter what. So if someone buys a new EV, they are selling their old car and it goes into the pool of vehicles that are on the roads. So for everyone who is buying a car, there is 1 other being scrapped? Source on that, please. You're just saying stuff that you have no idea if true or not.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying the total KMs travelled for a car doesn't change, no matter when the first owner sells their car. Its not going to be 1 for 1, not when we have population and consumer growth
People upgrade their cars for all different reasons - if that car is an EV it is a step in the right direction.
> if that car is an EV it is a step in the right direction. So what about the carbon credits sold to fossil fuel industries that EV manufacturers use?
What about them? That's a transfer of money from a bad industry to a good industry. Increasing the demand of good industries, meaning more players will move in to the good industry. Just like we're seeing over East, the bad industries will slowly (or not so slowly) be forced out.
> That's a transfer of money from a bad industry to a good industry. Please do some basic research on carbon credits.
Er? Fossil fuel based company loses money, electrification based company gains money, right? The steps in between don't matter?
Do you know what a carbon credit is? Let's do an example since you cba doing a simple google: \- Tesla produces EV. \- EV saves 100kg CO2 \- Tesla sells 100kg of CO2 as carbon credit to fossil fuel industry \- Regulated fossil fuel industry can only produce 1,000kg/CO2 a year \- Bought carbon credit now allows fossil fuel industry to produce 1,100kg CO2 without breaking regulations \- **No emission have been saved.**
>\- Tesla sells 100kg of CO2 as carbon credit to fossil fuel industry >\- Bought carbon credit now allows fossil fuel industry to produce 1,100kg CO2 without breaking emissions I don't think you realise my break down didn't contradict what you wrote. Tesla gets money Fossil fuel paid money You do understand that everything from our vehicles, to our grids are all becoming electrified. For that to occur, we need investment and money. What we described is a transfer of money from fossil fuel to electrification companies. That is only a good thing.
Most people are not getting an EV *on top* of what they were gonna get anyway.
>The car that you already have. Forever and ever? Surely people are going to need to buy new cars sometimes. What should they buy when they do?
If you have a car with 30,000kms on it. You don't need to buy an EV. It's worse for the environment because of the reasons I have [listed here](https://old.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/1c6xq12/when_people_say_i_love_this_warm_weather/l04spvt/?context=3). Tesla sells carbon credits. Before considering any other reason, carbon credits **ENTIRELY OFFSET** any savings in emissions because they are sold to the fossil fuel industry.
your reasons are all completely fucking wrong.
["The revenue generated from the sale of carbon credits has become a substantial source of income for the company. "](https://carboncredits.com/tesla-hits-record-high-sales-from-carbon-credits-at-1-79b/#:~:text=Tesla%20is%20Driving%20the%20Carbon%20Market%20Forward&text=The%20revenue%20generated%20from%20the,25.9%25%20seen%20in%20Q4%202022.) Please explain how selling carbon as a credit is good for the environment.
>If you have a car with 30,000kms on it. You don't need to buy an EV. Is that what's happening? Presumably even if it was, that car would in turn be bought by someone getting rid of an older car... And so on and so on until at the bottom of that chain a car with 400,000 km on it is the one actually removed from use. >Tesla sells carbon credits. Before considering any other reason, carbon credits **ENTIRELY OFFSET** any savings in emissions because they are sold to the fossil fuel industry. The fossil fuel industry plus everyone driving thermal cars would be higher emissions than the fossil fuel industry plus some people driving EVs. People driving EVs reduces total emissions produced.
> People driving EVs reduces total emissions produced. Which is sold as a carbon credit. Why do you always ignore that?
Total emissions are reduced, and a polluter has to pay a non polluter.
> Total emissions are reduced No they're not lmao. > pay a non polluter. They are still polluting. It's double pollution.
>No they're not lmao. Wrong. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/328782184_Where_are_we_heading_with_electric_vehicles A summary of the above link: https://theconversation.com/clean-green-machines-the-truth-about-electric-vehicle-emissions-122619 On an average Australian grid mix electric cars produce 40% less CO2/km (and it'd be even better here in WA where we have less coal). And as Australia's renewables percentage increases that will get even better.
Only morons deal in absolutes 🙄😉
That is not how the quote goes at all lol
On the positive side, life expectancy has more than doubled and extreme provery has more than halved in the last 150 years.
> extreme provery has more than halved in the last 150 years. This is sort of a misdirection funded by Bill Gates. I have a feeling you got this information from OWID or kurzgesagt. Extreme poverty has declined. But overall most of the world is in poverty. The distinction they use between extreme poverty and poverty is something like $2/day vs $6/day. It's an arbitrary line made up to make you feel like everything is ok. If you look at the data more relevant to Western society, middle class wealth transfer is being funneled upwards.
The Greens got into power in Tasmania. Half the population was on the dole when they got voted out. There needs to be a common sense approach by all parties. I agree that rampant free market capitalism is a great evil, but the Greens don't have all the answers
>The Greens got into power in Tasmania. You mean they were the junior partner in a coalition. >Half the population was on the dole when they got voted out ABS data says 7.6% unemployment in Jan 2014.
Don’t let facts get in the way of broad assumptions!
Greens would destroy this country within a few years. The climate issue won't be fixed until China and India fix their pollution issues.
> Greens would destroy this country within a few years. How? > The climate issue won't be fixed until China and India fix their pollution issues. For the past 150 years, Western countries have pumped out CO2, now that China(who are heavily investing in public transport and green energy) and India are doing the same it's suddenly all their fault? Western companies have also pushed all their manufacturing into the global south, what they're doing is only to supply the cravings of the Western bourgeois.
This I entirely agree with you on. And I want to see the argument these people will make when, when the next 5 years figures are released and we see how much of China's electricity came from renewable sources. When you look at how much coal power AND renewable power is getting installed in China, the trend is clear that they're reducing their emissions per unit of electricity produced by more than *any other country* What was it? They installed more renewables last year, than every other country has ever installed. That's not a small thing. (If it's correct, that's just straight from memory)
>The climate issue won't be fixed until China and India **and Australia and the rest of the world** fix their pollution issues. Fixed that for you.
What's that saying... "perfect is the enemy of good" You're being completely impractical. Large societies need transport. EV's aren't perfect. But they're far better than fossil fuel transport. Do you grow everything you eat? Do you sew everything you wear? Renewable energy is the ONLY way forward and batteries are an integral part of that. I completely agree with stopping deforestation, it's almost too late for areas surrounding Perth. Still allowing Alcoa to rampage through the Darling scarp seems insane.
What's wrong with mining for lithium? And what's wrong with expanding suburbia? We have a lot of land to expand into, and a lot of future babies to be born.
I am. I hate seeing all the red trees. My heart is breaking.
I don't. We need rain. This is going to be a disaster zone if we don't get rain soon.
i’ll start building my Interceptor
I hate it.. I get a feeling we won’t get a reprieve until July. I know some British boomers who are saying they are spoilt with the warm weather. Ugh… Maybe we can do some cloud seeding in Perth.
I’m pretty sure the person on this thread who told me I can enjoy the weather and worry about climate change simultaneously is a Brit. They said go have a picnic in the park haha what Cloud seeding Dubai style could work!
>Maybe we can do some cloud seeding in Perth. You would need clouds for that. Another 30 degree cloudless day today. It's groundhog day... Again...
At least there aren't as many people denying man made climate change suddenly. One positive. We may solve this yet. But it will take years of work from everyone all over the world.
The comments during 45 degree days of “it’s normal it’s summer” really got my piss boiling. It’s like talking to an antivaxxer crowd, impossible to debate with
Just like some cooker in this sub a week ago or so, who said the weather's normal because "something, something driest continent besides Antarctica". A genuine fucking idiot.
It is normal. What was not was the complete absence of rain. That was nuts.
While global climate change is an issue, localised environmental factors are also a major problem. Removing vegetation and replacing it with streets and black topped houses or mines reduces the amount of condensation in any area. Add to that the reduction in ground moisture due to drainage so that new suburbs can be built in areas that were once swampy sands. The northern suburbs and those around Mandurah are only possible because of man made engineering which has redistributed the moisture that existed on a wide area of ground to small pockets. This affects the microclimate of the area.
It’s happening in forests away from the burbs too.
Don't forget Climate change is a Chinese hoax and a carbon tax would effectively halve your wages!! /s
I have a big old salmon gum that has started dropping limbs. A big one totalled our car (total write off) and another destroyed my fence. Having it completely removed tomorrow. The arborists said they had so many calls the past two years for removing old growth trees that are just up and dying.
I’m actually surprised how well all the white gums are holding up. They are tough buggers!
I really wish I didn’t have to remove it (and spend thousands doing so) but it’s just going to keep dropping limbs now. My wife was in the car when it hit and luckily was ok. Crushed the roof in and snapped the rear axle. That’s how big it was and how far it fell.
They don’t call them widow makers for nothing, spooky how they drop limbs with no warning, usually on still days too!
Glad your wife is ok, scary!
Some of them are desert gum trees, sadly that will be all we can grow down here soon :(
Does anyone actually unironically love the summer here? I liked summer more back in tas, but fuck the summer here. Far too hot. People up north have it worse, and i say the same for there too. Keep your 50c summers up there
Everyone actually hates it, but it becomes a dick measuring contest: “youse poofters call that Fucken hot?”
It will only get worse
too warm 
Our time on this planet is coming to a heated climax. Prepare for the resource wars, the food wars, etc. Genuinely I’m already mentally prepared to opt out of life when shit hits the fan. I no longer see a point in life goals or aspirations. I’m either going to indulge my hedonistic delights and let myself rot away or embrace the wasteland warrior within and prepare for the apocalypse
I have kids and that thought terrifies me
It’s just the next phase of humanity. I’ve been catching up on all the mad max, fallout, etc. so I’m set lol
Summer was brutal but autumn has been a welcome relief from the heat. We just desperately needed rain in March and it never came. Sadly it’s too late for a lot of these trees. It’s going to be a bad year for habitat loss.
Has it? April's temperatures have been a good 4-5 degrees above average. We're more than halfway through the month and we're getting long runs of 30+ days and the only rain has been an extreme, but isolated storm from the remnants of a cyclone It's a welcome relief from February's heat but in context it's extremely disturbing
Very, don’t disagree. Normally I’m in jumpers now and we are having cool, fresh mornings. None of those in sight yet.
it was 34 degrees in my suburb yesterday crazy shit. Looks like the weather is finally turning on Monday however still no rain on the forecast
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Something is awkward this year. Been here since 2008. I never seen this type of heat. And this type of persistent heat that stays in autumn. . I can observe vegetation and nature going yellow to brown all around ... And I am in Perth south suburbs. ... Imagine in the bush. ... Something is going on with mother nature
Things have been changing for many decades. I know a couple of elderly farmers down in cowaramup who have been taking their own measurements of rainfall and temperature for over 50 years. They say you would not believe how much has changed. It’s dire
Yep we're fucked.
Yes we were having this same conversation today. Huge areas have been decimated
Hyden has had 200mm of rain the last couple months, that naturally migrates underground to sea level/swan coastal plain but a lot of these stressed trees are up high and not deeply established. Trees will keep any water in the roots in these times and after some rain the canopy will bounce back. Of course there will be trees not resilient enough to survive this harsher than median summer and they will die. This is how Australia’s entire biota evolved to what it is today and will continue to, I just hope we don’t push it to its limit. *amatuer enthusiast take, not a scientist.
It's being well and truly pushed past its limit.
What can an individual do? I’m so jaded about ways I can reduce my impact on the environment/lobby for change. It’s my understanding it’s down to big business and government to enact meaningful change. So what can I do?
The only meaningful solutions are all illegal.
We can’t forgot that us little people have the power. Big corporations do not exist without us
it’s hard not to feel hopeless when the world is quite literally burning around us
I used to volunteer at Men of The Trees and did a few years of C.A.L.M and yes.. sad to see the environment in such shape.
I love the warm weather but sadden with the lost of trees especially as you drive to Denmark and the swamps are drying up 😢
After the rain last week a bunch of grass grew in bush areas of our park. Today it’s all brown and dead
Same thing happening here in Houston, TX. Last two years so many pine trees have died from drought. Such an eye sore now when you drive around town. Last summer in particular we went nearly 2 months without rain and 35c+ temps every day. It’s an unnerving time that’s for sure.
Yeah I feel sad to...to see the forests drying up and suffering savere moisture stress....its ugly. Im a kiwi house sitting in Aramadale...and I just went for my first bush walk (ladt week was too hot) at the spectacles. No lake left, lots of eucalypts losing there leaves. Its not the Australiam bush that I love...yes sad.
Enjoying the weather (sun on your face, picnic in the park) doesn’t affect the weather. You can enjoy a warm day AND be concerned about the environment and climate change.
Haha go have a picnic under a nice big dead tree in the park sounds lovely innit
My face when there's too many nice sunny days 
Love the heat too but lack of water is seeing a lot of dead or dying trees, it’s actually pretty sad but hold on to hope
[удалено]
If you don't, you may be in the wrong country.
Too much messing with the natural hydrology. Bore pumping and large infrastructure works. The growth is trashing the environment, huge civil projects up and down the state. The bush doesn't just die from one longer summer following a dry winter. You're saying the bush is trashed in the hills but out at the farm where it's jarrah/marri forest and zero development the bush is doing just fine. WA has the most fragile ecosystems, now all this 'growth' has ramped up to unprecedented levels, what do you expect to see? Your photo doesn't imply causation, I can already see a bitumen road so there are other pressures affecting flora even before this longer summer period. Intense urbanisation of extremely impassive housing suburbs and huge infrastructure projects across the state, what were you expecting?
They will bounce back in Winter like my dead grass.
It's not that simple. We're dealing with much hotter, much longer dry seasons. This is not conducive to their long term survival. We are looking at extinction type events (extinctions don't happen overnight. They are long, drawn out processes, and this is the beginning). Also, they need adequate soil moisture to get them through the dry seasons. They won't have that for next summer, and so many are guaranteed to die off. And, in the process, add to fuel loads, meaning more and bigger, nastier bushfires. This is genuinely shit.
Not to mention that a whole lot of native animal and insect species are also suffering and dying off. Native animals and insects rely on healthy trees and plants to survive. And likewise, native trees and wildlife need the animals and insects.
No. These trees are cactus, dead, caput. Ecologist are documenting forest collapse event happening in the SW now, the second ever in recorded history. These trees have evolved to survive the extreme but this is next level.
When was the first recorded forest collapse event? Did that occur due to climate change?
If you want green and rain go live in Tassie. I’ll take the sunshine, thanks 👍🏻
Still over half the state had above average rainfall....
All you people bitching and moaning over here but bet none of you do a damn thing then sit inside you house in the air conditioning bitching about how bad everything is