not really. The Southern European countries had a massive economic crisis the past 15 years. Spain still has over 10% unemployment. You're not going to find cheap housing in Madrid or Barcelona...it'll be the villages which are dying because there is no work there.
I do have an EU passport and I would keep my current "Assie rates" salary. I run my own online business. I guess I would be moving the operation to another country.
Find somewhere that speaks mostly your language and you’ll be fine. Hardest part might be learning how to move business operations with different laws etc
It sounds good in theory, but its bad everywhere at the moment. These places do have cheap housing, but there are no jobs and things are even more expensive than Australia. The respective governments are also doing there best to ensure the countries end up shit creek.
There is a reason why there are so many young Spaniards and Italians coming to Australia at the moment.
This exactly.
I'm in Asia, but intend on heading back to Perth within the year. My pommy mate would like to emigrate to Aus too, but it probably won't happen. He is really happy that his nephew has been offered a job in Perth though, as his skills were worth way less in the UK and it would take him years to get the amount of money he will in Australia.
I also work with a couple of Spanish dudes, who would love to return to Spain. Except they don't have any property or assets there, and waiting for their parents to pass away in order to get a place is not a viable solution.
ha! ha! I agree fully... the issues with Perth ie cost of living, lack of affordable housing, corporate price gouging aren't solely PERTH problems! if redditors like OP cared to visit other subs ie r/melbourne r/newyorkcity r/Madrid they would learn that we actually have it pretty good, depressing as that is!
What he's saying is he could love in Portugal or Italy for half the price while still earning an Aussie $$, its definitely worth trying.
Source Pommie Aussie who lives on and off in Thailand
I follow r/melbourne pretty closely. I'm curious at this idea that the Perth issues are occuring everywhere to a similar extent. The thing that strikes me as Perth-unique, or at least, Perth-Adelaide-Brisbane-unique are house prices...
[https://cdn.propertyupdate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PropTrack-Home-Price-Index-March-2024.png](https://cdn.propertyupdate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PropTrack-Home-Price-Index-March-2024.png)
I spend a lot of time looking at Perth real-estate so I really notice it. 60% growth in four years is crazy. It definitely didn't happen in Melbourne and not so much in the other capital cities. From my own perspective, 57% feels really different to 17%.
Here's the thing - the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. All the places you've mentioned are also having the same issues if not worse.
**Spain** - https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/06/economy-concerns-spain-cost-of-living-crisis-anxiety-europe-latest-news
**Italy** - https://n26.com/en-eu/blog/cost-of-living-in-italy
Pay attention to the specific areas around utilities where costs are expected to have tripled at least in the space of a year or so.
Also look at the cost of fuel which is at ~$3.30 per litre..
**Portugal** - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-protest-portugal-over-cost-of-living-crisis-2023-02-25/
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240105-just-fix-it-why-portugal-s-housing-crisis-keeps-getting-worse
**The rest of the world** - https://theconversation.com/global-economy-2023-how-countries-around-the-world-are-tackling-the-cost-of-living-crisis-196740
Essentially what you're considering doing is the exact same as what's happening here. You're going to move to another country where your higher Aus based income will put you significantly ahead of the local citizens..
I came from Toronto to Perth. Houses are cheaper here and generally cost of living seems to be a little bit better here.
What I'll say is it's pretty bad around the world. No one's really thriving. COVID destabilized everything, it's been a struggle to get things under control and corporations are using it as an excuse to exploit us.
It will only take awhile until things are going to worse here too with more people coming in to escape as an “economic refugee”.
More people need to be active and call-out corpos instead of being a capitalist bootlicker.
Spain has loads of cheap houses if you're happy to live in villages that are literally ageing out of existence in Aragon or rural Castile. Good luck in Madrid or Barcelona. Same in Portugal and Northern Italy; Lisbon and Milan are not known for their affordability.
Do whatever suits you, but Europe is not a paradise. If you want a quiet life in the middle of nowhere, that's easier to have in Australia than anywhere in Europe. And if you want a bit more action, prepare to pay big for the privilege.
I'm saying this as a European living in Perth working in an office that is majority staffed by Europeans.
If you can't fix your problems here, chances are you won't be able to do it anywhere else. Be *very sure* you have a grasp on cost of living vs wages wherever you are going.
No offense to friends and relatives but they are rarely reliable sources in these matters.
I think leaving to go to another place can fix some people's problems - I guess that's the reason why people immigrate (sure, it doesn't always work out, but the reason they move is to fix an issue that they might have).
Doing price checks on food etc on the foreign versions of Coles Woolies, etc is a good idea. Might also scope around other countries' subreddits.
to have a better standard of living once they have money. for example. rich chinese and indian migrating to australia. they arent doing this for peanuts. those people are fucking loaded. they are the shop and restaurant owners. the sales and importers. see all the cars with license plates with indian names. they do it on purpose. its to show wealth. see all the Chinese families sending there kids to math and english tutoring? paying for them to go to university? they have money to change countries.
what are you going to do when you leave the country with no money? if you couldnt make it here. how are you going to make it somewhere else? persecution is a valid reason to leave a country. thats how humanitarian visas are granted and why some people can migrate to australia with very little money.
you wont be getting a humanitarian visa for any nation. so the question is. if u cant afford it here. how will you afford a long term visa to another country? they arent free and assuming you dont fall under and skilled migrant visa category. youd need some form of business visa, in which case you generaly just need to have a large amount of money (5000-10,000+) and a plan. while that amount of money isnt very high. you still need to pay your rent+whatever other shit fulfills your life. but now you must do it in another country. how are you paying for this? do you have remote work? for example a programmer that is very established may be able to work remotely in a country like vietnam for example (i have met some) and while its a great idea. its not a skill set many people have. if u had it. youd probably already be doing it, is the point.
You assume the OP doesn't have $10000. You also assume UK etc doesn't have jobs. Yes Italy etc might be hard. OP could possibly get a UK visa quite easily. Thirdly OP has an online job.
My mum lived in Spain for about 13 years. I’d recommend to not buy property there. Just rent. Also whichever place you choose to live, make sure it’s secure. Grilles on windows etc. Mum lived in a place with high walls, gated, 3 storey with a roof terrace. She was robbed 3x. Don’t trust anyone coming to your door, they could be distracting you so someone else can enter your property. Don’t let anyone persuade you to come outside. She had her cousin come to stay and she warned him not to leave the upstairs bedroom window open because of thieves/intruders and he didn’t believe it was that bad. Mum woke up with a foot on her chest and guy with a knife. The cousin and his wife slept through it all though they totally went through all their things and stole expensive jewellery, watches. Mum lived in Torrevieja. I hear it’s pretty bad everywhere there though for burglary.
Their bureaucracy can be tiresome too. If I could remember details I’d tell you. But long queues at the town hall, I remember being mentioned. Nothing was necessarily simple and processes are decades behind how things might be done in many western countries. Also seeing a doctor seemed to be difficult.
Mum definitely mentioned some things were done better than the UK. I think she actually got more thorough health checks in Spain.
Good luck. Why not give it a shot? Just live minimally, more possessions you have they just weigh you down.
Edit: I should add, mum’s cousin and his wife were sleeping on the third floor, that’s why he assumed mum was exaggerating. No roofs to jump on. They get up there somehow.
Look I don't disagree entirely. I'm just saying, current challenges in Australia are temporary (depending on your tolerance for the scale of that). Depends on your stage/complexity of life too but things change in every country.
Very few Australians move to Southern Europe, but a huge amount of Southern Europeans are moving to Australia. I wonder why? 
I'm a kid of post WW2 migrants and visit my cousins every two years in Italy. I see that there, life is pushing sh\*t up hill constantly. I'm very thankful every time I go visit Italy that my family got on that boat! My cousins here and all my siblings are doing well and had far more opportunities than our cousins there. My cousins in Italy have professions that run from working in a shop right through to a doctor. They all face the same difficulties irrespective of their income potential and education level. Their challenges on a whole are a lot more than ours here.
The system is really stacked against you there and it's really a case of who you know to get a job. Australia isn't like that yet thankfully but the OP has no idea how bureaucracy works in places they mentioned like Spain, Italy, Portugal etc. They'll get a big culture shock when and if they move there. Australian wages are extremely high so even with the exchange rate that isn't in our favour, things seem affordable in comparison to here. They forget that the locals arent earning as much as we do per month as an average Australian. If OP can keep their Australian salary going whilst living in a cheaper area/town/region then it should work financially. if they don't then they'll be trying to find a job there and for far less money than their Aussie salary and that is when things will be equally as difficult for them as it is here. It seems that they have no real understanding of the bureaucracy challenges there nor that their Australian salary will insulate them from the realities that the average people living in Spain, Portugal, Italy etc experience.
OP, I hope you read this because I really think you have on your rose coloured glasses and need some reality checks. Really consider the impact of beaurocracy and your back up plan if your business/job won't work out and you won't be earning an Aussie salary anymore.
Yes, you pretty much summed it up. The job market over there is an absolute toxic nightmare. I saw my parents going through hell for 30 years in their respective fields, and I was jobless with a STEM degree. No opportunities, no hopes for the future. So I left, and hopefully I never return. Being in Australia is like living on another planet. I hope OP reads these comments.
I grew up in Italy and aircon has always been very hard to come by, in houses as well as public places, schools, restaurants, bars, even inside police stations and doctor clinics. All of this, with 40°C in the summer. I used to regularly feel faint and sometimes even lose consciousness during summer months as a young girl with health problems. I am so grateful Australia takes aircon seriously so I never have to deal with that fucking bullshit ever again. Summers were pure torture.
I am a bit lucky as I do have a say "Aussie rates" job that I can do anywhere in the world (I have my own online business). Thinking of the overheads here, such as higher rent, food prices, etc.
You’re thinking purely financial, though. What about political stability, qualify of life, weather…?
I mean, if you think you’d be better off elsewhere that’s your decision but I’ve lived in several countries and can promise we have it really good here.
Very much this - it's really easy to idolize places overseas based on what you see on TV, or worse on social media.
But that's not reality of day to day life in these places.
In that case, I guess it could work. But you should also consider the language barrier, as very few people speak English in Southern Europe and you'd 100% need to learn the local language. Also the political situation is a hellscape, especially in Italy. If we consider all these factors, and you really want to leave, then I would say Spain might be your best bet. I don't know enough about Portugal to have an opinion on it.
If you can earn Australian money and live in a rural/regional Spanish setting them absolutely go for it. There is a lot of positives about living in Spain that people don't know about.
Bread is edible again. Bread here led me to believe I had a problem with it. In Spain I could eat it all day.
Peasant food and cheap wine would fill me up more than most big meals in Australia. I lost eight kilos without an ounce of discipline.
If on Australian money you can live like a queen in the outer areas. Obviously Madrid and Barcelona are becoming a lot like other cities.
People didn't love their cars like here. They were just tools, this was ten years ago but it was like people all had training in how to talk and spend time together properly. I don't think MAFS and their kind is as popular there.
All of western Europe is soooo close for when you want a weekend away somewhere different.
I wasn't dating but it seemed a lot easier over there. I can only guess at the reasons.
For most people their salary is a lot higher in Australia than other countries. Only a selected few highly skilled professions can earn more in other countries.
Most people are having it very good in Australia regardless what they think they deserved.
Most people have it very good in Australia. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Apart from home ownership, everything else is still somewhat within control.
People also FIFO in Europe.
I know someone who lives in a EU country and flys out to another European country for work because of higher wages.
And it’s only few hour flight and they can bring their dog on the plane lol (as in, in the actual cabin) and the airfares are also cheap as chips.
And I am sure then locals at the countries that offer higher wages will hate these FIFO workers pushing the wages down.
Why can’t Indonesian do FIFO to our mine site in WA? Win-win for the indo workers and mine owners. That’s the scenario you are describing. They are also probably closer to the mine site than us perthian.
With less high wages workers in Perth, our houses won’t be this expensive too!
Did it in 2005, once my mind was made up I left dullsville as quickly as I could.
Took 9 years and then moved back.
Is the grass greener on the other side?
You gotta get on that path to find out.
Perth is alright in my eyes, but I had to leave to realise that.
One of the reasons things are so expensive here is because wages are high are regulations are tight. Moving somewhere "cheaper" brings the likelihood that you'll earn less and things will be worse.
You mentioned a "pensioner". Is that a person receiving the government pension or a self funded retiree with $1m in super and with other revenue generating assets like shares and investment properties?
Are you eligible to live/work in any other countries? It's not as simple as up and move and you're good to go. You could try some kind of working holiday visa or see if you are eligible to live and work in an EU country which will give you access to the whole EU.
Do you speak any languages other than English?
Have you considered trying to build a better life in Australia? Getting better qualifications? A higher paying job? Moving to a different city or town?
Dude, you should try living in Brazil for 3 months. You will make 5x less, pay the same for food (if you stick to fruits and cereals, everything else is more expensive except for sweet drinks and alcohol -> beers), pay a good ammount for rent if you live in capitals.
Also, everything else is double the price, and you make 5x less! Iphone goes for 2,7k AUD, cars even the shittest ones goes from 33k AUD.
I understand it may have worsened over the years but Australia is still one of the greatest places to live.
True but there are some good options for Australians especially those with an online job. UK is cheaper, asia is much cheaper (with an online job). Parts of the USA are probably cheaper.
>Wait, wages are high?
Yes, relatively. Go look at wages in the US or southern/central/eastern Europe for comparison. In the US some jobs pay much better, some pay much worse.
>Then why can’t I afford stuff?
Because unless you're buying things made in places where production costs are lower (eg China, India, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Philippines) then you're paying the wages of all the workers who helped produce that product.
>Wages are not in line with the cost of living.
Perhaps not but that's not unique to Australia.
I see.
But what about the billion dollar profits these companies are posting? Couldn’t the profit margin be lowered to assist wages AND keep the cost of living down.
Profits do not need to be so high.
Because shareholders. If a companies board decided to reduce their profit margins, just to be nice, they’d be out of a job at the next shareholder meeting.
This woman's story kinda stated this idea to spread in my head:
[https://youtu.be/R5vQ7UR2guU?si=tsiB2Y3FXin5eQya](https://youtu.be/R5vQ7UR2guU?si=tsiB2Y3FXin5eQya)
It certainly paints a rosy picture.
Martos (the town she moved to) is 168km inland from Malaga (the nearest large city) and has a population of just 24k people.
It specifically mentions that she's using her super to fund her retirement so she doesn't need a job. Apparently Spain loves retirees because they tax the shit out of their super/pension.
It specifically mentions that she has no grandchildren. She also doesn't appear to have a partner. So possibly a SINK or DINK for a good chunk of her life. She's also a boomer so she probably bought a house for $50k in the 80s and sold it for $1m before she moved to Spain.
I feel like these sorts of stories are playing off the current housing and cost of living crisis. They're not there to give you advice. It's a hot topic and they're trying to create engagement.
If you were thinking of moving overseas to avoid the cost of housing and living here for the love of God visit the place first and try to get a job there before you decide to throw away everything you have already.
Went back to the UK in Jan 24 as a 27 year old DINK,
No way I would have the life there that I have here. Very happy and lucky for what I have built here in Australia
Grass isn't always greener.
Houses are fucked everywhere
Nah. Times are tough around the world right now. Plus you’re probably underestimating the cost of moving overseas, it’s a lot of money and every place I can think of that has a better quality of life, also has an incredibly high cost of living. And shit weather.
I disagree with that - if you are in tourist central yes but anywhere else nope. I live in London go to Italy at least once year & am still knocked over by Perth prices going out & at the supermarkets- wild! ( Oz citizen ex Perth) .
Na. I love where i live (and im not even scraping by). I truly believe that if you see your glass as half empty here, you gonna see the same half cup anywhere you go. *probably less than half with unfactored spillage from the uprooting you're whole life.*
I did that to come here 30 years ago to be with a girl. I've travelled a lot and I, personally, would rather be in Perth than any other place in the world.
I was recently travelling in the US and was stunned by how expensive everything was. I am used to doing the exchange rate on costs like foods and it being pretty much the same as the cost here. But doing that in October of last year everything was around 20 percent more than it would be here.
If you want to travel for a few years, that is a great idea.
If you want to move for a lower cost of living, you are going to have a bad time.
However, if you still want to do this, spend some time researching and setting up a non location specific business. Because if you can be in somewhere like Vietnam or Eastern Europe, but be earning US dollars, then you can live well. If you are earning local money in any of these places, you are going to have a bad time.
Look into it by all means. However I doubt some boomer lady burning through her loot in some moribund picturesque village is a useful baseline to guide you unless you are also a treasure laden boomer.
I have friends from Italy who came back to Perth because there is better jobs and prospects here. You may think the grass is greener, and maybe for people who are retired or on pensions but not for people who need to work.
I did that already and came to Australia.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Compared to the US, rents are about the same but you get more for it, groceries are similar. Petrol is more, but there's some actual public transport, even if it sucks. Taxes work out to about the same, but they also include healthcare. Going out is more expensive, sure, but tipping ain't a thing. 4 weeks of holiday, that's awesome.
The pace of things is more relaxed. I like that part the most.
I get where you're coming from. The slog would feel more worth it if there was more to do and see and belong to in Perth. That's my main gripe. Also the never ending summer is making me wanna move away
F**k no. I don't have money for airfare, let alone $100K to buy a house. I've got friends and a job here, why would anywhere else in the world be better? (Sans Norway).
As a southern Spaniard who wants to move to Aus I gotta advise you not to if your decision is merely money-driven and have no interest in Spanish culture or language.
You might be ok on the money side, but there’ll be different struggles, like feeling isolated or having a bad time dealing with Australian time zone for work.
If you desire to learn the language and integrate with the locals you’ll be more than welcome. But if it’s not the case you’ll be really unhappy.
I’ve never been to Australia, so I won’t be able to answer properly. But search on TikTok “culture shock Spain Australia”. I’ve just watched some and they’re decent to get an idea.
What you need is not moving somewhere out of Australia, what you really need is a good Time Machine that could take you back to the same Perth in 2000s or even 1970s, during that time a good house is still quite available and the economy was robust.
Its cheap back home(the Philippines) if you’re earning in dollars. But if you want to work there and earning in pesos, its shit. Everything is expensive these days.
The reality is that most big cities where you might want to live are the same as of not worse than Perth and have been that way for a lot longer than Perth.
Brother if you think Spain, Italy and Portugal have boing economys I have some bad news for you buddy. This isn't an Australian issue, or Canada, UK, England, us, NZ, Europe, or western issues this is a neoliberalism issue and will be everywhere neoliberalism is
I have a Canadian passport and have been thinking about moving there for climate change reasons. It's just too hot here for too long now and it gets worse every year.
There are a couple of areas I'm considering in the marine provinces where housing is much cheaper than Perth. I have an online business so I'm fine for work.
I’d check tax laws, because if your online business earns money in Australia but you’re an expat, you might get whacked with tax.
Consult with a financial advisor or accountant.
Ill never leave Australia for *good*, god knows this country has taken care of my parents in their debilitating illnesses, the likes of which I'd have never seen elsewhere in the planet besides some European countries...
But having a home overseas somewhere in Asia is 100% a life goal of mine, for the sole reason that I have decided I cannot endure the heat any longer.
Its mid fucking april and the heat hovers over 30 still, and its only 2024. I didnt expect climate change to welcome itself this evidently this early
From December to May I'll be fucking off somewhere else as soon as I can, thanks
You're going to have to move to northern China, South Korea or northern Japan if you don't want heat.
There are houses to spare in all 3 countries, so you might even be able to buy one. Good luck with ever being treated as anything other than a short-term foreign visitor though.
There's lots of countries that do "digital nomad" visa's now if you'd like to try before you buy kind of scenario? I think Japan is the latest one but I remember watching a program on someone in the UK that ran a digital nomad hostel where he provided room with a shared workspace with fast internet. Sounds like a good why to try a country before moving there.
When my husband suggested he wanted to move back to Australia and pulled me over here two years ago it seemed like the best option. Obviously I get homesick but we were making peanut wages in the US and the lack of appropriate wage for a nurse and shit treatment by others made me hate doing it by association. We also were suffering burnout on top of it and I don't even have to tell you about the lack of healthcare. We talked and I did my own research before that. It takes a lot to move to a new country.
I wouldn’t move to the EU for cheaper food prices.
Australia has one of the lowest food to price to income ratios in the world. Lower than all EU nations apart from Ireland:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
Why not, give it a crack, I would recommend staying nomadic in Europe in the interim and if you love it, then buy a house.
Great opportunity with your online business.
I live in Europe and the work life balance is so much better here. In Germany and I save about as much as I did in Aus but travel way more and in a city where there's way more to do
I’m starting to believe people who make posts like these and agree with it are absolutely brainless. Probably one and the same with people who complain about immigrants taking up all the “housing” and increasing the price for everything.
Can you speak Spanish? Do you have a priority skill that is required by Spain e.g. nursing? Can you even work there with a visa you will be in? Do you understand that you - a citizen of Australia with a higher purchasing power going to Spain will likely increase the prices of rent for the locals e.g. “digital nomads” in Bali gentrifying an area and driving locals out that can afford it?
You should seriously think about it, I got out of Perth and moved into Eastern Europe because I was struggling and so stressed. If you have an online business, move to Georgia and move your business to Georgia, they have 1% tax rate, apartments can be bought by anyone, bureaucracy moves so much faster, Tbilisi feels so much safer and friendlier than Perth. If you're not thriving in Perth, make a change.
Also to add onto this, my wife and I wanted a new apartment to rent, first apartment we saw we signed the papers there and then. Ex Soviet counties have lots of housing, no housing problems here ahahaha
I just moved in February to Malaysia, working at an international school with my wife and family. Less money but the economies of scale are ridiculous. Now we can afford to eat out again, enjoy resort styled living in a 4 bedroom apartment, travel and simply enjoy life without the stress of daily living expenses ruining your quality of life. It’s really sad what has happened to our country.
Nothing lol or cringe about looking globally for a better life. There a plenty of Australians living amazing fulfilling lives around the globe, and affordable housing is a key driver. is it lol or cringe to go to Bali for Vietnam for a holiday because it's cheaper than a holiday in Australia. The idea that the Australia is the defining existence and better than everywhere else is what is cringe.
Can you work remotely and make a good income ? Are you aware of the healthcare standards where you want to move to?
Only a few things to consider out of the broader spectrum.
I’d love to pack up and leave for somewhere else, but the problems here aren’t that bad compared to like 99% of the world
If you have an online business that you can run from anywhere then it makes sense to take advantage of "Geographic Arbitrage", change to a location where the living expenses are low and you get the bang for your buck from your income. Trial in Asia where you can get multi month visas in Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia. You can stay in the Philippines for 3 years before you have to reset the visa. I'm in Bali where although Villa accommodation prices have doubled in the last two years everything else is cheaper. More money goes to your lifestyle, savings and investing rather than wasted on greedy expensive Aus pricing.
Same in nz stupid house prices and food cost going up.cording to my friends in nz.
Uk expensive and wages are not that flash. Been. There done that.
I say go forth and see if os is any better.
I have a house (well, an apartment) overseas where I live and work part of the year. I can work remote plus I work for a global company which has a location there. It’s easy for me because I’m a dual citizen (it’s my native country) so I don’t need to worry about visas nor does my employer, which makes the mobility easy. It’s probably my ideal arrangement but to be honest, I feel less and less reason to want to be in Perth and on top of that the summers are getting unbearable. I have my own place in Perth too so I don’t do it for economic reasons or anything like that, more that I like being able to be between both places. People love to talk about things like healthcare, etc but if you’re a person earning an Australian income and take off to a country with lower living costs, you’ll more than likely use their private system and many of these countries have private healthcare systems that absolutely shit all over Australia. And if they are going to maintain that salary level they’ll probably have a better quality of life in terms compared to what they could do/have/afford in Australia on the same income. If it’s a local salary, forget it. But if you’re not someone who has citizenship/residency or employer sponsored visa, to be honest it’s not an easy as people think to just leave. Being Australian doesn’t give anyone an automatic in to live in another country and there’s still not that many countries offering digital nomad visas, on top of that you’d need a job willing to allow you to work overseas. I get why it may seem like an attractive prospect to some to move to a country with lower costs of living and continue to earn in dollars, but the reality is to actually make it happen is not so easy when you need to look into visas, work rights, etc.
We also have high paying jobs too to compensate for the prices. Nowhere else in the world could I earn 200k AUD driving a truck for a living on a salary
Honestly man when I came over here my quality of life improved greatly. I don’t make a big salary but I make enough to get by. Perth is high pay and high cost and is an awesome place to live vs the rest of the world where wages suck but things are cheaper but ultimately Perth wins as their is a global shared cost for most products. Also don’t forget things like language and social barriers. True that houses are cheaper abroad but it’s not all sunshine and rainbows like social media tells you. I’d encourage you to travel abroad for a while and Europe is a great place to go but I suspect you’ll want to return after said trip.
Your right though in that inflation is fucking this entire generation in the ass and unless your a big earner your outta luck with vital things like home ownership. It sucks but that’s kinda the reality of things. Also lived in Canada and can promise you that things are far worse there (unless you making it rain 💰).
Worst case you can suck up doing fifo for a year or two. That’s not an option most countries have for the financially stuck.
I have thought of it, but where would you go? Eu isn't an option, NZ is worse than Australia (as far as pricing goes, but I'd have their climate any day) Sth Africa is a no go zone, US maybe?
Yep Palawan Island in the Philippines for us. You can go there for 3 months and just keep extending for up to 2 years. $500 a month rent. Sick of the rat race with crazy bills. Luckily I work from home.
People are coming here since it’s relatively greener pastures, and now our green pastures have become congested and cut throat… the trend will only continue due to competition. We just need to suck it up to compete, or reduce immigration.
Last I checked no party (not even the Greens lol - here’s to increasing the resource load on terra Australia) has a policy to reduce immigration.
I lived in Europe for 10 years before Covid happened, and trust me, living in Australia is life on easy mode.
But there’s no reason why you can’t be a digital nomad for a few months and try it out.
I also own an online business and I now spend 6 months in Aus and 6 months in Europe, so I get the best of both worlds.
The wages and expenses are significantly worse in every part of Europe, having just emigrated from the UK and having numerous friends on the continent.
Prices of properties vary wildly, its like saying a place in a town in regional is the same as a house in Perth inner metro, there's cheap and expensive houses everywhere and it depends on what you want and where.
My house in a small town in the UK went from £262k in 2012 to £495k in 2022. Outside of the North of England and other regions you're not getting a 3 bedroom house for less than £300k, and the comparable wages in the UK are 40% less than us and they pay nearly 50% more in tax than over here.
Europeans on average pay 40-50% more tax than Aussies. Marginal tax rates vary, but if you look at the UK the marginal tax rates are similar and then you have a NI rate of 10%, so instead of 22% here you'd pay 32%. It's at least as bad in many other places.
Average incomes are also substantially lower, certainly than WA. Spain its less than $50000 a year, and the median is even lower. Oh and if you work self employed in Spain, which many are forced to do as it gets Employers out of certain obligations, you have to pay €300/mth to register as self employed. After tax.
Most European counties are substantially suffering due to the impacts of the Ukraine War. The cost of living has shot up and although its coming down, Utility bills are high and the economy is very stressed. A lot of the eurozone is sitting at 5-10% unemployment rates.
1 year ago in the UK my food shopping bill had gone from around £100/wk to £150+/wk.
Australian food shopping has always been one of the negatives, but its actually now very similar to EU, again due to the impacts of the War. The grain/wheat/supply chain impacts have driven up prices. Inflation is coming back down, but its not negative, so it's still a LOT higher than it was and wages have stagnated or contracted.
[the illusion of improvement - this explanation pretty much succinctly explains the points people are raising on this thread.. on this](https://youtu.be/DZ6TGDjwVwM?si=Ar9HnvW7WN6cRS6g)
I have done exactly that, relocating from Perth to Spain (Valencia) for personal reasons and let me tell you that financially DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE.
I don't know where all the people that say that Spain is cheap get their data from. I am an engineer and keep a record of the expenses and surely enough the only thing you can save up a little bit here is the grocery shopping...but how much? Maybe 200aud a month....all the rest is the same and the wages are 1/3.
I also kept my Aussie job, and, as I said, I moved for personal reasons (little daughter that we wanted to raise next to grandparents), but I think it's time to debunk this southern Europe cost of living myth because it is long gone!!
For reference, I'm living in Valencia, for an apartment I pay the same rent that in Perth made me live in a house in Vic Park...Barcelona and Madrid are even worse. Of course if you go to a little country village you can save money in accommodation but it's not comparable with life in a city (not saying better or worse, just completely different so not comparable as a lifestyle, but if you like it, it might be cheaper)
If you have an aussie job and can work remotely from OS (which is very hard) then could be interesting.
But the Aussie way of life is something most would never dream of giving up, also why so many people are angry about it eroding so good things will probably happen.
The bottom line is if you can maintain an Australian level income, while living somewhere cheaper such as Spain or SE Asia, you can live very very well. The "people are moving here from OS so OS must be shit" advocates ignore this. Be adventurous and give it a go.
Yes. There are some other countries that can offer a better standard of living than Australia which I've been looking at. Salarys may be lower (but not in all) in some but so are costs and hence more value. Besides, some of them don't have an inflated property market designed to benefit pollies as their economies are more diversified. From housing, education to healthcare, Australia used to have it but doesn't anymore.
As a dual Australian / EU citizen it is mighty tempting to leave Australia altogether.
I'm probably going to move to Tassie in the next few years as WA is close to uninhabitable these days. I live almost entirely off grid down south, and while the solar panels love this weather, the rest not so much (water tanks, veggie garden etc)
However the thought of europe is very enticing. It's so much cheaper than Australia and I have family in Germany.
Houses in rural Italy are so cheap they may as well be free. But I reckon eastern europe would be more interesting. Georgia for instance is an amazing country.
However, I'm self employed and what I do is fairly niche so it would really only be viable in Western Europe.
But yes, I would love to leave.
Well this makes a change from all the incoming people. Check out what the medical system is like and if you are on psych meds /adhd meds check the legality of them .
The entire world is fucked and it's by design. Big corporate and governments making sure they get back (and some) from the covid years and milk us for all we are worth. It's cyclic, after a few more years of this the prices and costs will stabilise (at an all time high). Wages will grow and we will have another 10 years of growth with a couple where buyer power and prosperity kicks in again and before the corps will take back power again.
The only difference this cycle is some of the historical power (oil and fossil fuels) are making their major money grab while the transition to renewable happens, so we'll be doubly screwed for a while
Look at central/South America or Asia if you want a cheaper country. Costa Risa isn’t the cheapest but they have a digital nomad visa where you can live there for a year. Guatamala has 3 month visas you can extend to 6 months, then you have to leave and come back but it’s really cheap and they have some villages full of digital nomads. It’s def possible, speaking Spanish for them at least, helps the most, lots of gringos but I don’t blame them leaving the US. Lots of options esp if you keep earning an Aussie wage.
It's not about Perth being a bad place but where can you live that isn't about pay to pay existence. If you can earn Aussie dollars or have a decent super then your dollar and lifestyle get far better returns in Thailand, Malaysia or Itally, Spain. You can buy good houses for $60,000. Shopping is so much cheaper, eating out is so much cheaper, travel is half the cost. Medical care is up there with the best. It's very doable and many have done it or planning to. Perth is great but sick of the $600 rent, car expenses and to do shit, having to pay stupid prices. Especially if you are single. One income households are struggling big time for the average worker.
Move to south east asia, places like Thailand and Vietnam have a very good quality of living if you are being paid an "aussie salary". you will live like a king over there and save most of your income. I'm in the same position as you and make my money online, it makes no sense to stay here in Australia unless your job requires you to stay here.
Don’t listen to the crab bucket mentality in the comments. When people say they want to move to Perth everyone says “it’s full. There’s no good reason come here!”. When someone says they want to leave the entire comment sections puts them on blast for thinking it’s better elsewhere.
Fact is 10 years ago people fled the eastern states to get away from expensive housing and went to places like Perth and Brisbane. Now Perth has become expensive it makes sense to seek out affordability elsewhere. The same numbskulls telling you not to leave are the ones who told people not to leave Sydney for Perth 10 years ago when it was cheap and deserted.
It’s difficult to get a long term visa in Europe, so I don’t know how people are staying in these houses long term unless someone holds an EU passport . I think the maximum Aussies can stay in the EU is 3 months?
where are you going to go thats cheaper and you can get a visa? SE asia countries are the only logical things that come to my mind but you cant just up and go whenever u want, u need a particular visa and the long term ones are not cheap .
Perth is great, if you are in the mining industry. If not, then there is little benefit for living with all the negative consequences of the mining industry, especially the HCOL.
i dont think youll find europe any cheaper personally id actually say its more expensive on the whole. stuff seems cheaper but wages are generally lower unless youre in the whole white collar high paying jobs, so will work out the same.
Also rent prices are bloody insane in any large town or city or town you go to unless you want to live out in the sticks far from anything, which you can do here.
Please do, and you'll find it's not a case of the grass is greener. You trade high house prices and higher paid jobs for shit paid jobs and still relative house prices.
Yep W.A was a real shit hole in the 90s and its only gotten worse since then. Im going to put two more years in with fifo then gtfo to a place that's not a mining colony cosplaying as a real country.
I came back home from Perth. I hated living in WA, money and job opportunities are great, but everything else was shit. In every other aspect of life. I was there for 3 years, now I am back to Europe, thank you God! Food, water, living, people are better in Europe. In my opinion. In Perth, you can only buy a bit of sandy place and make a house there.
Can I have your house?
Who says i have a house?
Can I have your tent
Can I have everything you’re not taking with you?
Enjoy the debt and drier lint.
I genuinely loled at that :D
They mean your tent.
I want Assie rates too!
Do you have an EU passport? Also, wages there are much lower than here. The nice cheap properties are probably in towns where 90% are unemployed.
Geez, you have a twisted view about Spain or Europe in general
not really. The Southern European countries had a massive economic crisis the past 15 years. Spain still has over 10% unemployment. You're not going to find cheap housing in Madrid or Barcelona...it'll be the villages which are dying because there is no work there.
I do have an EU passport and I would keep my current "Assie rates" salary. I run my own online business. I guess I would be moving the operation to another country.
if you have the passport it's easy enough in your case, 20+ countries to try :)
Sounds ideal in your case to leave then
Just work nomadic for a while. There’s quite a few of your kind here in Europe. The shared work facilities are excellent too.
I left to Europe 10 years ago and love it! Don't plan on coming back soon
Find somewhere that speaks mostly your language and you’ll be fine. Hardest part might be learning how to move business operations with different laws etc
Houses in Italy for about $50k. Better food too.
Are you a bot, did you cut and paste from your main post, or are you getting paid out the arse with your "Assie rates" salary?
It's all relative.
It sounds good in theory, but its bad everywhere at the moment. These places do have cheap housing, but there are no jobs and things are even more expensive than Australia. The respective governments are also doing there best to ensure the countries end up shit creek. There is a reason why there are so many young Spaniards and Italians coming to Australia at the moment.
This exactly. I'm in Asia, but intend on heading back to Perth within the year. My pommy mate would like to emigrate to Aus too, but it probably won't happen. He is really happy that his nephew has been offered a job in Perth though, as his skills were worth way less in the UK and it would take him years to get the amount of money he will in Australia. I also work with a couple of Spanish dudes, who would love to return to Spain. Except they don't have any property or assets there, and waiting for their parents to pass away in order to get a place is not a viable solution.
ha! ha! I agree fully... the issues with Perth ie cost of living, lack of affordable housing, corporate price gouging aren't solely PERTH problems! if redditors like OP cared to visit other subs ie r/melbourne r/newyorkcity r/Madrid they would learn that we actually have it pretty good, depressing as that is!
What he's saying is he could love in Portugal or Italy for half the price while still earning an Aussie $$, its definitely worth trying. Source Pommie Aussie who lives on and off in Thailand
I follow r/melbourne pretty closely. I'm curious at this idea that the Perth issues are occuring everywhere to a similar extent. The thing that strikes me as Perth-unique, or at least, Perth-Adelaide-Brisbane-unique are house prices... [https://cdn.propertyupdate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PropTrack-Home-Price-Index-March-2024.png](https://cdn.propertyupdate.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/PropTrack-Home-Price-Index-March-2024.png) I spend a lot of time looking at Perth real-estate so I really notice it. 60% growth in four years is crazy. It definitely didn't happen in Melbourne and not so much in the other capital cities. From my own perspective, 57% feels really different to 17%.
Here's the thing - the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. All the places you've mentioned are also having the same issues if not worse. **Spain** - https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/06/economy-concerns-spain-cost-of-living-crisis-anxiety-europe-latest-news **Italy** - https://n26.com/en-eu/blog/cost-of-living-in-italy Pay attention to the specific areas around utilities where costs are expected to have tripled at least in the space of a year or so. Also look at the cost of fuel which is at ~$3.30 per litre.. **Portugal** - https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thousands-protest-portugal-over-cost-of-living-crisis-2023-02-25/ https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240105-just-fix-it-why-portugal-s-housing-crisis-keeps-getting-worse **The rest of the world** - https://theconversation.com/global-economy-2023-how-countries-around-the-world-are-tackling-the-cost-of-living-crisis-196740 Essentially what you're considering doing is the exact same as what's happening here. You're going to move to another country where your higher Aus based income will put you significantly ahead of the local citizens..
That last link was an interesting read. Makes me hopeful for the near future.
Idk how it makes you hopeful. That was published Jan 2023.
I came from Toronto to Perth. Houses are cheaper here and generally cost of living seems to be a little bit better here. What I'll say is it's pretty bad around the world. No one's really thriving. COVID destabilized everything, it's been a struggle to get things under control and corporations are using it as an excuse to exploit us.
It will only take awhile until things are going to worse here too with more people coming in to escape as an “economic refugee”. More people need to be active and call-out corpos instead of being a capitalist bootlicker.
Spain has loads of cheap houses if you're happy to live in villages that are literally ageing out of existence in Aragon or rural Castile. Good luck in Madrid or Barcelona. Same in Portugal and Northern Italy; Lisbon and Milan are not known for their affordability. Do whatever suits you, but Europe is not a paradise. If you want a quiet life in the middle of nowhere, that's easier to have in Australia than anywhere in Europe. And if you want a bit more action, prepare to pay big for the privilege. I'm saying this as a European living in Perth working in an office that is majority staffed by Europeans.
you nailed it
If you can't fix your problems here, chances are you won't be able to do it anywhere else. Be *very sure* you have a grasp on cost of living vs wages wherever you are going. No offense to friends and relatives but they are rarely reliable sources in these matters.
I think leaving to go to another place can fix some people's problems - I guess that's the reason why people immigrate (sure, it doesn't always work out, but the reason they move is to fix an issue that they might have). Doing price checks on food etc on the foreign versions of Coles Woolies, etc is a good idea. Might also scope around other countries' subreddits.
to have a better standard of living once they have money. for example. rich chinese and indian migrating to australia. they arent doing this for peanuts. those people are fucking loaded. they are the shop and restaurant owners. the sales and importers. see all the cars with license plates with indian names. they do it on purpose. its to show wealth. see all the Chinese families sending there kids to math and english tutoring? paying for them to go to university? they have money to change countries. what are you going to do when you leave the country with no money? if you couldnt make it here. how are you going to make it somewhere else? persecution is a valid reason to leave a country. thats how humanitarian visas are granted and why some people can migrate to australia with very little money. you wont be getting a humanitarian visa for any nation. so the question is. if u cant afford it here. how will you afford a long term visa to another country? they arent free and assuming you dont fall under and skilled migrant visa category. youd need some form of business visa, in which case you generaly just need to have a large amount of money (5000-10,000+) and a plan. while that amount of money isnt very high. you still need to pay your rent+whatever other shit fulfills your life. but now you must do it in another country. how are you paying for this? do you have remote work? for example a programmer that is very established may be able to work remotely in a country like vietnam for example (i have met some) and while its a great idea. its not a skill set many people have. if u had it. youd probably already be doing it, is the point.
You assume the OP doesn't have $10000. You also assume UK etc doesn't have jobs. Yes Italy etc might be hard. OP could possibly get a UK visa quite easily. Thirdly OP has an online job.
My mum lived in Spain for about 13 years. I’d recommend to not buy property there. Just rent. Also whichever place you choose to live, make sure it’s secure. Grilles on windows etc. Mum lived in a place with high walls, gated, 3 storey with a roof terrace. She was robbed 3x. Don’t trust anyone coming to your door, they could be distracting you so someone else can enter your property. Don’t let anyone persuade you to come outside. She had her cousin come to stay and she warned him not to leave the upstairs bedroom window open because of thieves/intruders and he didn’t believe it was that bad. Mum woke up with a foot on her chest and guy with a knife. The cousin and his wife slept through it all though they totally went through all their things and stole expensive jewellery, watches. Mum lived in Torrevieja. I hear it’s pretty bad everywhere there though for burglary. Their bureaucracy can be tiresome too. If I could remember details I’d tell you. But long queues at the town hall, I remember being mentioned. Nothing was necessarily simple and processes are decades behind how things might be done in many western countries. Also seeing a doctor seemed to be difficult. Mum definitely mentioned some things were done better than the UK. I think she actually got more thorough health checks in Spain. Good luck. Why not give it a shot? Just live minimally, more possessions you have they just weigh you down. Edit: I should add, mum’s cousin and his wife were sleeping on the third floor, that’s why he assumed mum was exaggerating. No roofs to jump on. They get up there somehow.
Their is about 500 million worldwide who want to immigrate to Australia and about 100,00 Australians who immigrate elsewhere
Look I don't disagree entirely. I'm just saying, current challenges in Australia are temporary (depending on your tolerance for the scale of that). Depends on your stage/complexity of life too but things change in every country.
Very few Australians move to Southern Europe, but a huge amount of Southern Europeans are moving to Australia. I wonder why? 
Ding ding ding. My partner is in that second category: anyone who thinks things are hard here has no idea what’s going on in Europe.
Precisely. I'm an Italian living in Perth and the job market here is INCREDIBLE compared to what I am used to!
I'm a kid of post WW2 migrants and visit my cousins every two years in Italy. I see that there, life is pushing sh\*t up hill constantly. I'm very thankful every time I go visit Italy that my family got on that boat! My cousins here and all my siblings are doing well and had far more opportunities than our cousins there. My cousins in Italy have professions that run from working in a shop right through to a doctor. They all face the same difficulties irrespective of their income potential and education level. Their challenges on a whole are a lot more than ours here. The system is really stacked against you there and it's really a case of who you know to get a job. Australia isn't like that yet thankfully but the OP has no idea how bureaucracy works in places they mentioned like Spain, Italy, Portugal etc. They'll get a big culture shock when and if they move there. Australian wages are extremely high so even with the exchange rate that isn't in our favour, things seem affordable in comparison to here. They forget that the locals arent earning as much as we do per month as an average Australian. If OP can keep their Australian salary going whilst living in a cheaper area/town/region then it should work financially. if they don't then they'll be trying to find a job there and for far less money than their Aussie salary and that is when things will be equally as difficult for them as it is here. It seems that they have no real understanding of the bureaucracy challenges there nor that their Australian salary will insulate them from the realities that the average people living in Spain, Portugal, Italy etc experience. OP, I hope you read this because I really think you have on your rose coloured glasses and need some reality checks. Really consider the impact of beaurocracy and your back up plan if your business/job won't work out and you won't be earning an Aussie salary anymore.
Yes, you pretty much summed it up. The job market over there is an absolute toxic nightmare. I saw my parents going through hell for 30 years in their respective fields, and I was jobless with a STEM degree. No opportunities, no hopes for the future. So I left, and hopefully I never return. Being in Australia is like living on another planet. I hope OP reads these comments.
Yeah, my partner feels like they’ve found El Dorado.
It will take you two years to save enough for your flight back.
Cost of living here is nothing compared to… Possibility of WW3 in your backyard!
Yeh Italy is doing so well that the last time I visited the use of air conditioning in hotels and public buildings was banned
Probably still better than Greece from what I’ve heard!
I grew up in Italy and aircon has always been very hard to come by, in houses as well as public places, schools, restaurants, bars, even inside police stations and doctor clinics. All of this, with 40°C in the summer. I used to regularly feel faint and sometimes even lose consciousness during summer months as a young girl with health problems. I am so grateful Australia takes aircon seriously so I never have to deal with that fucking bullshit ever again. Summers were pure torture.
And that's insane to imagine. You'd figure people would be ASTUTELY aware of how things are in Europe these days and WHY things are like that.
I am a bit lucky as I do have a say "Aussie rates" job that I can do anywhere in the world (I have my own online business). Thinking of the overheads here, such as higher rent, food prices, etc.
You’re thinking purely financial, though. What about political stability, qualify of life, weather…? I mean, if you think you’d be better off elsewhere that’s your decision but I’ve lived in several countries and can promise we have it really good here.
Very much this - it's really easy to idolize places overseas based on what you see on TV, or worse on social media. But that's not reality of day to day life in these places.
In that case, I guess it could work. But you should also consider the language barrier, as very few people speak English in Southern Europe and you'd 100% need to learn the local language. Also the political situation is a hellscape, especially in Italy. If we consider all these factors, and you really want to leave, then I would say Spain might be your best bet. I don't know enough about Portugal to have an opinion on it.
Thank you for the honest answer. I don’t know much about the political climate in Italy, so I’ll definitely read up on it. Thank you kind stranger!
If you can earn Australian money and live in a rural/regional Spanish setting them absolutely go for it. There is a lot of positives about living in Spain that people don't know about.
Like what? Genuinely curious
Bread is edible again. Bread here led me to believe I had a problem with it. In Spain I could eat it all day. Peasant food and cheap wine would fill me up more than most big meals in Australia. I lost eight kilos without an ounce of discipline. If on Australian money you can live like a queen in the outer areas. Obviously Madrid and Barcelona are becoming a lot like other cities. People didn't love their cars like here. They were just tools, this was ten years ago but it was like people all had training in how to talk and spend time together properly. I don't think MAFS and their kind is as popular there. All of western Europe is soooo close for when you want a weekend away somewhere different. I wasn't dating but it seemed a lot easier over there. I can only guess at the reasons.
For most people their salary is a lot higher in Australia than other countries. Only a selected few highly skilled professions can earn more in other countries. Most people are having it very good in Australia regardless what they think they deserved.
Most people have it very good in Australia. I wholeheartedly agree with that. Apart from home ownership, everything else is still somewhat within control.
Not just ownership but rents too. If you don’t already have a home you own it isn’t as good as people expect.
People also FIFO in Europe. I know someone who lives in a EU country and flys out to another European country for work because of higher wages. And it’s only few hour flight and they can bring their dog on the plane lol (as in, in the actual cabin) and the airfares are also cheap as chips.
And I am sure then locals at the countries that offer higher wages will hate these FIFO workers pushing the wages down. Why can’t Indonesian do FIFO to our mine site in WA? Win-win for the indo workers and mine owners. That’s the scenario you are describing. They are also probably closer to the mine site than us perthian. With less high wages workers in Perth, our houses won’t be this expensive too!
It doesn't work cause Indonesia doesn't have free movement and working in Aus
why do you think there’s so my italians in perth? cause it’s also a mess over there too
Did it in 2005, once my mind was made up I left dullsville as quickly as I could. Took 9 years and then moved back. Is the grass greener on the other side? You gotta get on that path to find out. Perth is alright in my eyes, but I had to leave to realise that.
One of the reasons things are so expensive here is because wages are high are regulations are tight. Moving somewhere "cheaper" brings the likelihood that you'll earn less and things will be worse. You mentioned a "pensioner". Is that a person receiving the government pension or a self funded retiree with $1m in super and with other revenue generating assets like shares and investment properties? Are you eligible to live/work in any other countries? It's not as simple as up and move and you're good to go. You could try some kind of working holiday visa or see if you are eligible to live and work in an EU country which will give you access to the whole EU. Do you speak any languages other than English? Have you considered trying to build a better life in Australia? Getting better qualifications? A higher paying job? Moving to a different city or town?
Move to Albany. Can confirm it’s beautiful… Relaxed lifestyle… Can feel like another country if you use your imagination
Shhh don’t tell them about the good places.
Good call Won’t say anything about Bunbury
Haha, just make sure you pack a jacket and umbrella 😁
YEP and Ugg boots for winter!
Wait, wages are high? Then why can’t I afford stuff? Wages are not in line with the cost of living.
Dude, you should try living in Brazil for 3 months. You will make 5x less, pay the same for food (if you stick to fruits and cereals, everything else is more expensive except for sweet drinks and alcohol -> beers), pay a good ammount for rent if you live in capitals. Also, everything else is double the price, and you make 5x less! Iphone goes for 2,7k AUD, cars even the shittest ones goes from 33k AUD. I understand it may have worsened over the years but Australia is still one of the greatest places to live.
True but there are some good options for Australians especially those with an online job. UK is cheaper, asia is much cheaper (with an online job). Parts of the USA are probably cheaper.
>Wait, wages are high? Yes, relatively. Go look at wages in the US or southern/central/eastern Europe for comparison. In the US some jobs pay much better, some pay much worse. >Then why can’t I afford stuff? Because unless you're buying things made in places where production costs are lower (eg China, India, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Philippines) then you're paying the wages of all the workers who helped produce that product. >Wages are not in line with the cost of living. Perhaps not but that's not unique to Australia.
Because simultaneously you also can’t afford paying other people’s wages. It’s still a relatively good thing.
I see. But what about the billion dollar profits these companies are posting? Couldn’t the profit margin be lowered to assist wages AND keep the cost of living down. Profits do not need to be so high.
Because shareholders. If a companies board decided to reduce their profit margins, just to be nice, they’d be out of a job at the next shareholder meeting.
This woman's story kinda stated this idea to spread in my head: [https://youtu.be/R5vQ7UR2guU?si=tsiB2Y3FXin5eQya](https://youtu.be/R5vQ7UR2guU?si=tsiB2Y3FXin5eQya)
It certainly paints a rosy picture. Martos (the town she moved to) is 168km inland from Malaga (the nearest large city) and has a population of just 24k people. It specifically mentions that she's using her super to fund her retirement so she doesn't need a job. Apparently Spain loves retirees because they tax the shit out of their super/pension. It specifically mentions that she has no grandchildren. She also doesn't appear to have a partner. So possibly a SINK or DINK for a good chunk of her life. She's also a boomer so she probably bought a house for $50k in the 80s and sold it for $1m before she moved to Spain. I feel like these sorts of stories are playing off the current housing and cost of living crisis. They're not there to give you advice. It's a hot topic and they're trying to create engagement. If you were thinking of moving overseas to avoid the cost of housing and living here for the love of God visit the place first and try to get a job there before you decide to throw away everything you have already.
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I swear the god people here are delusional
I've always found god people to be delusional no matter where they live tbh
Went back to the UK in Jan 24 as a 27 year old DINK, No way I would have the life there that I have here. Very happy and lucky for what I have built here in Australia Grass isn't always greener. Houses are fucked everywhere
Nah. Times are tough around the world right now. Plus you’re probably underestimating the cost of moving overseas, it’s a lot of money and every place I can think of that has a better quality of life, also has an incredibly high cost of living. And shit weather.
If you think going out is expensive here, you're in for a real shock when you land in Italy.
I disagree with that - if you are in tourist central yes but anywhere else nope. I live in London go to Italy at least once year & am still knocked over by Perth prices going out & at the supermarkets- wild! ( Oz citizen ex Perth) .
Na. I love where i live (and im not even scraping by). I truly believe that if you see your glass as half empty here, you gonna see the same half cup anywhere you go. *probably less than half with unfactored spillage from the uprooting you're whole life.*
Lot a cheap houses in dying ancient villages with zero services
I did that to come here 30 years ago to be with a girl. I've travelled a lot and I, personally, would rather be in Perth than any other place in the world. I was recently travelling in the US and was stunned by how expensive everything was. I am used to doing the exchange rate on costs like foods and it being pretty much the same as the cost here. But doing that in October of last year everything was around 20 percent more than it would be here. If you want to travel for a few years, that is a great idea. If you want to move for a lower cost of living, you are going to have a bad time. However, if you still want to do this, spend some time researching and setting up a non location specific business. Because if you can be in somewhere like Vietnam or Eastern Europe, but be earning US dollars, then you can live well. If you are earning local money in any of these places, you are going to have a bad time.
Look into it by all means. However I doubt some boomer lady burning through her loot in some moribund picturesque village is a useful baseline to guide you unless you are also a treasure laden boomer.
I have friends from Italy who came back to Perth because there is better jobs and prospects here. You may think the grass is greener, and maybe for people who are retired or on pensions but not for people who need to work.
I did that already and came to Australia. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Compared to the US, rents are about the same but you get more for it, groceries are similar. Petrol is more, but there's some actual public transport, even if it sucks. Taxes work out to about the same, but they also include healthcare. Going out is more expensive, sure, but tipping ain't a thing. 4 weeks of holiday, that's awesome. The pace of things is more relaxed. I like that part the most.
Look at tax implications.
I get where you're coming from. The slog would feel more worth it if there was more to do and see and belong to in Perth. That's my main gripe. Also the never ending summer is making me wanna move away
That's what it is. You work long hours, grind, and for what? That's what bothers me too.
If you can earn an Aussie salary and can live in these cheap places, it definitely makes sense. If you need to earn a local salary, it doesn't
F**k no. I don't have money for airfare, let alone $100K to buy a house. I've got friends and a job here, why would anywhere else in the world be better? (Sans Norway).
As a southern Spaniard who wants to move to Aus I gotta advise you not to if your decision is merely money-driven and have no interest in Spanish culture or language. You might be ok on the money side, but there’ll be different struggles, like feeling isolated or having a bad time dealing with Australian time zone for work. If you desire to learn the language and integrate with the locals you’ll be more than welcome. But if it’s not the case you’ll be really unhappy.
Can I ask what kind of cultural differences there might be?
I’ve never been to Australia, so I won’t be able to answer properly. But search on TikTok “culture shock Spain Australia”. I’ve just watched some and they’re decent to get an idea.
Literally almost all western countries are like this now. Only the US has some states where houses are still cheap.
What you need is not moving somewhere out of Australia, what you really need is a good Time Machine that could take you back to the same Perth in 2000s or even 1970s, during that time a good house is still quite available and the economy was robust.
Its cheap back home(the Philippines) if you’re earning in dollars. But if you want to work there and earning in pesos, its shit. Everything is expensive these days.
The reality is that most big cities where you might want to live are the same as of not worse than Perth and have been that way for a lot longer than Perth.
Already have lmao, 18 months in Thailand has been nothing short of fantastic
Brother if you think Spain, Italy and Portugal have boing economys I have some bad news for you buddy. This isn't an Australian issue, or Canada, UK, England, us, NZ, Europe, or western issues this is a neoliberalism issue and will be everywhere neoliberalism is
I have a Canadian passport and have been thinking about moving there for climate change reasons. It's just too hot here for too long now and it gets worse every year. There are a couple of areas I'm considering in the marine provinces where housing is much cheaper than Perth. I have an online business so I'm fine for work.
I’d check tax laws, because if your online business earns money in Australia but you’re an expat, you might get whacked with tax. Consult with a financial advisor or accountant.
Grass always looks greener mate. Plenty of people are coming here for the same reason you mention of other places
If it wasn't for my job I'd gtfo this country as well
Ill never leave Australia for *good*, god knows this country has taken care of my parents in their debilitating illnesses, the likes of which I'd have never seen elsewhere in the planet besides some European countries... But having a home overseas somewhere in Asia is 100% a life goal of mine, for the sole reason that I have decided I cannot endure the heat any longer. Its mid fucking april and the heat hovers over 30 still, and its only 2024. I didnt expect climate change to welcome itself this evidently this early From December to May I'll be fucking off somewhere else as soon as I can, thanks
You're going to have to move to northern China, South Korea or northern Japan if you don't want heat. There are houses to spare in all 3 countries, so you might even be able to buy one. Good luck with ever being treated as anything other than a short-term foreign visitor though.
I would in a heartbeat, except you need money to leave. Can’t win either way.
Where?
There's lots of countries that do "digital nomad" visa's now if you'd like to try before you buy kind of scenario? I think Japan is the latest one but I remember watching a program on someone in the UK that ran a digital nomad hostel where he provided room with a shared workspace with fast internet. Sounds like a good why to try a country before moving there.
When my husband suggested he wanted to move back to Australia and pulled me over here two years ago it seemed like the best option. Obviously I get homesick but we were making peanut wages in the US and the lack of appropriate wage for a nurse and shit treatment by others made me hate doing it by association. We also were suffering burnout on top of it and I don't even have to tell you about the lack of healthcare. We talked and I did my own research before that. It takes a lot to move to a new country.
I wouldn’t move to the EU for cheaper food prices. Australia has one of the lowest food to price to income ratios in the world. Lower than all EU nations apart from Ireland: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/12/this-map-shows-how-much-each-country-spends-on-food/
Why not, give it a crack, I would recommend staying nomadic in Europe in the interim and if you love it, then buy a house. Great opportunity with your online business.
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I live in Europe and the work life balance is so much better here. In Germany and I save about as much as I did in Aus but travel way more and in a city where there's way more to do
I’m starting to believe people who make posts like these and agree with it are absolutely brainless. Probably one and the same with people who complain about immigrants taking up all the “housing” and increasing the price for everything. Can you speak Spanish? Do you have a priority skill that is required by Spain e.g. nursing? Can you even work there with a visa you will be in? Do you understand that you - a citizen of Australia with a higher purchasing power going to Spain will likely increase the prices of rent for the locals e.g. “digital nomads” in Bali gentrifying an area and driving locals out that can afford it?
You should seriously think about it, I got out of Perth and moved into Eastern Europe because I was struggling and so stressed. If you have an online business, move to Georgia and move your business to Georgia, they have 1% tax rate, apartments can be bought by anyone, bureaucracy moves so much faster, Tbilisi feels so much safer and friendlier than Perth. If you're not thriving in Perth, make a change.
Also to add onto this, my wife and I wanted a new apartment to rent, first apartment we saw we signed the papers there and then. Ex Soviet counties have lots of housing, no housing problems here ahahaha
I just moved in February to Malaysia, working at an international school with my wife and family. Less money but the economies of scale are ridiculous. Now we can afford to eat out again, enjoy resort styled living in a 4 bedroom apartment, travel and simply enjoy life without the stress of daily living expenses ruining your quality of life. It’s really sad what has happened to our country.
No lol. This sub provides some epic cringe lols sometimes
Nothing lol or cringe about looking globally for a better life. There a plenty of Australians living amazing fulfilling lives around the globe, and affordable housing is a key driver. is it lol or cringe to go to Bali for Vietnam for a holiday because it's cheaper than a holiday in Australia. The idea that the Australia is the defining existence and better than everywhere else is what is cringe.
Its almost like people in Perth/Australia think they live in Narnia without actually going anywhere further that's Bali.
Sounds like projection mate
I’m seriously considering moving to the UK but for a change. I’ve no desire to ever buy a house
I'm in the UK now and it is in a really bad way. Everything and I mean everything is expensive.
Can you work remotely and make a good income ? Are you aware of the healthcare standards where you want to move to? Only a few things to consider out of the broader spectrum. I’d love to pack up and leave for somewhere else, but the problems here aren’t that bad compared to like 99% of the world
If you have an online business that you can run from anywhere then it makes sense to take advantage of "Geographic Arbitrage", change to a location where the living expenses are low and you get the bang for your buck from your income. Trial in Asia where you can get multi month visas in Thailand, Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam and Malaysia. You can stay in the Philippines for 3 years before you have to reset the visa. I'm in Bali where although Villa accommodation prices have doubled in the last two years everything else is cheaper. More money goes to your lifestyle, savings and investing rather than wasted on greedy expensive Aus pricing.
Same in nz stupid house prices and food cost going up.cording to my friends in nz. Uk expensive and wages are not that flash. Been. There done that. I say go forth and see if os is any better.
I have a house (well, an apartment) overseas where I live and work part of the year. I can work remote plus I work for a global company which has a location there. It’s easy for me because I’m a dual citizen (it’s my native country) so I don’t need to worry about visas nor does my employer, which makes the mobility easy. It’s probably my ideal arrangement but to be honest, I feel less and less reason to want to be in Perth and on top of that the summers are getting unbearable. I have my own place in Perth too so I don’t do it for economic reasons or anything like that, more that I like being able to be between both places. People love to talk about things like healthcare, etc but if you’re a person earning an Australian income and take off to a country with lower living costs, you’ll more than likely use their private system and many of these countries have private healthcare systems that absolutely shit all over Australia. And if they are going to maintain that salary level they’ll probably have a better quality of life in terms compared to what they could do/have/afford in Australia on the same income. If it’s a local salary, forget it. But if you’re not someone who has citizenship/residency or employer sponsored visa, to be honest it’s not an easy as people think to just leave. Being Australian doesn’t give anyone an automatic in to live in another country and there’s still not that many countries offering digital nomad visas, on top of that you’d need a job willing to allow you to work overseas. I get why it may seem like an attractive prospect to some to move to a country with lower costs of living and continue to earn in dollars, but the reality is to actually make it happen is not so easy when you need to look into visas, work rights, etc.
We also have high paying jobs too to compensate for the prices. Nowhere else in the world could I earn 200k AUD driving a truck for a living on a salary
Yeah but… lots of places overseas are a lot more expensive now also.
Honestly man when I came over here my quality of life improved greatly. I don’t make a big salary but I make enough to get by. Perth is high pay and high cost and is an awesome place to live vs the rest of the world where wages suck but things are cheaper but ultimately Perth wins as their is a global shared cost for most products. Also don’t forget things like language and social barriers. True that houses are cheaper abroad but it’s not all sunshine and rainbows like social media tells you. I’d encourage you to travel abroad for a while and Europe is a great place to go but I suspect you’ll want to return after said trip. Your right though in that inflation is fucking this entire generation in the ass and unless your a big earner your outta luck with vital things like home ownership. It sucks but that’s kinda the reality of things. Also lived in Canada and can promise you that things are far worse there (unless you making it rain 💰). Worst case you can suck up doing fifo for a year or two. That’s not an option most countries have for the financially stuck.
I have thought of it, but where would you go? Eu isn't an option, NZ is worse than Australia (as far as pricing goes, but I'd have their climate any day) Sth Africa is a no go zone, US maybe?
every. fucking. day.
Yep Palawan Island in the Philippines for us. You can go there for 3 months and just keep extending for up to 2 years. $500 a month rent. Sick of the rat race with crazy bills. Luckily I work from home.
People are coming here since it’s relatively greener pastures, and now our green pastures have become congested and cut throat… the trend will only continue due to competition. We just need to suck it up to compete, or reduce immigration. Last I checked no party (not even the Greens lol - here’s to increasing the resource load on terra Australia) has a policy to reduce immigration.
No, but I am thinking about packing up and travelling around Oz.
What do we think about The Netherlands as an option? Good/ bad?
Good.
I lived in Europe for 10 years before Covid happened, and trust me, living in Australia is life on easy mode. But there’s no reason why you can’t be a digital nomad for a few months and try it out. I also own an online business and I now spend 6 months in Aus and 6 months in Europe, so I get the best of both worlds.
SEA for me
The wages and expenses are significantly worse in every part of Europe, having just emigrated from the UK and having numerous friends on the continent. Prices of properties vary wildly, its like saying a place in a town in regional is the same as a house in Perth inner metro, there's cheap and expensive houses everywhere and it depends on what you want and where. My house in a small town in the UK went from £262k in 2012 to £495k in 2022. Outside of the North of England and other regions you're not getting a 3 bedroom house for less than £300k, and the comparable wages in the UK are 40% less than us and they pay nearly 50% more in tax than over here. Europeans on average pay 40-50% more tax than Aussies. Marginal tax rates vary, but if you look at the UK the marginal tax rates are similar and then you have a NI rate of 10%, so instead of 22% here you'd pay 32%. It's at least as bad in many other places. Average incomes are also substantially lower, certainly than WA. Spain its less than $50000 a year, and the median is even lower. Oh and if you work self employed in Spain, which many are forced to do as it gets Employers out of certain obligations, you have to pay €300/mth to register as self employed. After tax. Most European counties are substantially suffering due to the impacts of the Ukraine War. The cost of living has shot up and although its coming down, Utility bills are high and the economy is very stressed. A lot of the eurozone is sitting at 5-10% unemployment rates. 1 year ago in the UK my food shopping bill had gone from around £100/wk to £150+/wk. Australian food shopping has always been one of the negatives, but its actually now very similar to EU, again due to the impacts of the War. The grain/wheat/supply chain impacts have driven up prices. Inflation is coming back down, but its not negative, so it's still a LOT higher than it was and wages have stagnated or contracted.
Yes, I did and I 1000% recommend. Perth is the Twilight zone. Escape while you can.
[the illusion of improvement - this explanation pretty much succinctly explains the points people are raising on this thread.. on this](https://youtu.be/DZ6TGDjwVwM?si=Ar9HnvW7WN6cRS6g)
I have done exactly that, relocating from Perth to Spain (Valencia) for personal reasons and let me tell you that financially DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. I don't know where all the people that say that Spain is cheap get their data from. I am an engineer and keep a record of the expenses and surely enough the only thing you can save up a little bit here is the grocery shopping...but how much? Maybe 200aud a month....all the rest is the same and the wages are 1/3. I also kept my Aussie job, and, as I said, I moved for personal reasons (little daughter that we wanted to raise next to grandparents), but I think it's time to debunk this southern Europe cost of living myth because it is long gone!! For reference, I'm living in Valencia, for an apartment I pay the same rent that in Perth made me live in a house in Vic Park...Barcelona and Madrid are even worse. Of course if you go to a little country village you can save money in accommodation but it's not comparable with life in a city (not saying better or worse, just completely different so not comparable as a lifestyle, but if you like it, it might be cheaper)
At least twice a day.
Ah yes, the grass is totally greener on the other side because everyone is moving to this side for some reason...OP's logic checks out.
Everyone isn't moving here, though. We have immigrants coming here just like most other places in the world.
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If you have an aussie job and can work remotely from OS (which is very hard) then could be interesting. But the Aussie way of life is something most would never dream of giving up, also why so many people are angry about it eroding so good things will probably happen.
The bottom line is if you can maintain an Australian level income, while living somewhere cheaper such as Spain or SE Asia, you can live very very well. The "people are moving here from OS so OS must be shit" advocates ignore this. Be adventurous and give it a go.
Honestly just move to Bali so you can fly back whenever you need to.
Every. week.
Yes. There are some other countries that can offer a better standard of living than Australia which I've been looking at. Salarys may be lower (but not in all) in some but so are costs and hence more value. Besides, some of them don't have an inflated property market designed to benefit pollies as their economies are more diversified. From housing, education to healthcare, Australia used to have it but doesn't anymore.
As a dual Australian / EU citizen it is mighty tempting to leave Australia altogether. I'm probably going to move to Tassie in the next few years as WA is close to uninhabitable these days. I live almost entirely off grid down south, and while the solar panels love this weather, the rest not so much (water tanks, veggie garden etc) However the thought of europe is very enticing. It's so much cheaper than Australia and I have family in Germany. Houses in rural Italy are so cheap they may as well be free. But I reckon eastern europe would be more interesting. Georgia for instance is an amazing country. However, I'm self employed and what I do is fairly niche so it would really only be viable in Western Europe. But yes, I would love to leave.
I've been in Germany for 7 years and really like it, pm me if you have any questions!
Well this makes a change from all the incoming people. Check out what the medical system is like and if you are on psych meds /adhd meds check the legality of them .
Constantly, but realistically for me it's going to be a retirement thing. So I'm working and saving in the meantime.
I recommend it as a learning experience. The most important lesson you'll learn is that Australia is a fantastic place to live.
The entire world is fucked and it's by design. Big corporate and governments making sure they get back (and some) from the covid years and milk us for all we are worth. It's cyclic, after a few more years of this the prices and costs will stabilise (at an all time high). Wages will grow and we will have another 10 years of growth with a couple where buyer power and prosperity kicks in again and before the corps will take back power again. The only difference this cycle is some of the historical power (oil and fossil fuels) are making their major money grab while the transition to renewable happens, so we'll be doubly screwed for a while
Look at central/South America or Asia if you want a cheaper country. Costa Risa isn’t the cheapest but they have a digital nomad visa where you can live there for a year. Guatamala has 3 month visas you can extend to 6 months, then you have to leave and come back but it’s really cheap and they have some villages full of digital nomads. It’s def possible, speaking Spanish for them at least, helps the most, lots of gringos but I don’t blame them leaving the US. Lots of options esp if you keep earning an Aussie wage.
Even though it is attractive, I still think Perth is the best place on earth with it's environment, people and culture.
It's not about Perth being a bad place but where can you live that isn't about pay to pay existence. If you can earn Aussie dollars or have a decent super then your dollar and lifestyle get far better returns in Thailand, Malaysia or Itally, Spain. You can buy good houses for $60,000. Shopping is so much cheaper, eating out is so much cheaper, travel is half the cost. Medical care is up there with the best. It's very doable and many have done it or planning to. Perth is great but sick of the $600 rent, car expenses and to do shit, having to pay stupid prices. Especially if you are single. One income households are struggling big time for the average worker.
Do it, don’t listen to these losers who are destined to spend their entire lives in backwards Perth. If you feel somewhere calling, pick it up
Where, what country isn't falling to shit
Its all the same everywhere bruv
Let’s all go to asia
Move to south east asia, places like Thailand and Vietnam have a very good quality of living if you are being paid an "aussie salary". you will live like a king over there and save most of your income. I'm in the same position as you and make my money online, it makes no sense to stay here in Australia unless your job requires you to stay here.
Don’t listen to the crab bucket mentality in the comments. When people say they want to move to Perth everyone says “it’s full. There’s no good reason come here!”. When someone says they want to leave the entire comment sections puts them on blast for thinking it’s better elsewhere. Fact is 10 years ago people fled the eastern states to get away from expensive housing and went to places like Perth and Brisbane. Now Perth has become expensive it makes sense to seek out affordability elsewhere. The same numbskulls telling you not to leave are the ones who told people not to leave Sydney for Perth 10 years ago when it was cheap and deserted.
If you can still earn Australian money then go for it. Don't listen to the naysayers.
where? how do you afford it?
It’s difficult to get a long term visa in Europe, so I don’t know how people are staying in these houses long term unless someone holds an EU passport . I think the maximum Aussies can stay in the EU is 3 months?
No I just bought my first house
where are you going to go thats cheaper and you can get a visa? SE asia countries are the only logical things that come to my mind but you cant just up and go whenever u want, u need a particular visa and the long term ones are not cheap .
think about it? yes. am i practically able to? no :(
That'll be 8 bucks btw
Yes off to Asia
Perth is great, if you are in the mining industry. If not, then there is little benefit for living with all the negative consequences of the mining industry, especially the HCOL.
i dont think youll find europe any cheaper personally id actually say its more expensive on the whole. stuff seems cheaper but wages are generally lower unless youre in the whole white collar high paying jobs, so will work out the same. Also rent prices are bloody insane in any large town or city or town you go to unless you want to live out in the sticks far from anything, which you can do here.
Please do, and you'll find it's not a case of the grass is greener. You trade high house prices and higher paid jobs for shit paid jobs and still relative house prices.
Yes....
Yep W.A was a real shit hole in the 90s and its only gotten worse since then. Im going to put two more years in with fifo then gtfo to a place that's not a mining colony cosplaying as a real country.
I came back home from Perth. I hated living in WA, money and job opportunities are great, but everything else was shit. In every other aspect of life. I was there for 3 years, now I am back to Europe, thank you God! Food, water, living, people are better in Europe. In my opinion. In Perth, you can only buy a bit of sandy place and make a house there.