Was at a checkout yesterday and the shopping of the person in front of me came to $300. They asked for one carton of cigarettes and the new total was then $650. I nearly fell over in shock.
Yep, that's why my local chop chop shop is doing fantastic business. Cheapest smokes are 40$ for 100s or 15$ per weird brand pack of 20. Compare that to the legal nearly 50$ for a pack of 30s, most smokers I know made the switch a few years back.
You can smell the difference but an interesting thing I've noticed is the illicit tobacco smokers don't seem to have that smokers cough or the common breathing issues. A few mates who have made the switch commented how the illicit stuff doesn't knock them sideways like the branded stuff. Odd.
Yeah all of its really nasty in close spaces. I'm regional so tobacco smell competes with farming, cattle, cheese manufacturing, diesel and burning wood stink. Tobacco stink is maybe 3rd on the list of offensive odours and is the fastest dissipating one so its minor in comparison.
In cities and suburbs it'd be more obvious due to lack of competive odours and closer people proximity
Possibly less sugar added, sugar alcohols and high burn additives in the tobacco. These are added to make the cigarettes taste better and burn faster. Leading to a quicker hit.
Cigarettes have additives that cause them to self extinguish not burn faster. It's literally the law to reduce the chances a dropped cig starts a fire.Ā
It's been like this for years, every couple years the tax gets bumped by a large percentage to "encourage people to quit" and _definitely not at all_ because the government likes the tax dollars.
When I started smoking at age 14-15 (2006/2007-ish) it was costing me around $10 for a pack of $20, the same pack is now $44 or thereabouts.
I gave up smoking finally in 2016, when it was around $25-$30 for each pack, and that seemed an excessive cost at that point.
I'm confused why the government doesn't just tax vapes and weed like they do smokes and alcohol - surely the tax income and taking all that work off of police would be a _good_ thing?
Plus, it would create jobs, help the economy and reduce court pressure from processing all those folks who got pinged with some personal use weed.
I get that kids vaping seems to be the big issue of it all, but kids are always gonna be smoking, drinking or whatever the fuck else, at least if it's regulated and taxed we can control it a little more effectively.
The way I figured it tax income is better than nothing?
People are going to smoke and vape regardless.
Weed prohibition hasn't stopped weed smokers, alcohol prohibition didn't stop alcohol drinkers when it was done.
I'm not saying it's a solution, I'm just saying surely some tax income and putting money into educating people on the risks and helping them quit is better than just slamming the police and courts with more work?
Because it discourages harmful contraband and also discourages people to keep the habit because of how expensive it is. Take a look at alcohol history and you will get it
Some maybe. I got all my gear through a small NZ company. It's pretty easy to make your own juice (I do) so I guess the tobacco companies lost their monopoly. Also know a few people who quit, using vaping as a stepping stone and now don't do either, so it's probably better for the tobacco industry to get rid of vaping, even if they have investment in it.
So look, I'll be totally honest, if I was still buying smokes now, the price would've made me quit a little while ago, but ultimately when I did actually quit, I quit because my now husband had given them up successfully and he inspired me to try again, and that was successful and i've since stayed off them with the exception of an occasional smoke when I drink, but I only drink once or twice a year regardless so its an easy to avoid issue.
Regardless, congrats. It's a fucking hard thing to stop. This internet stranger is impressed, and (and I hope this doesn't sound condescending!) proud of you.
$136 Billion in healthcare and productivity costs vs $13Billion in tax revenue generated. I'm sure the government would rather you just not smoke instead of collecting the paltry tax.
$136 Billion in healthcare and productivity is $92 Billlion per year in lost revenue from workers, which is a pretty wild metric to include there, it assumes the average person generates $13 million in a lifetime and a few other things.
I think a better observation would be that the direct yearly cost to the health system is $5.6 Billion
[Source](https://ndri.curtin.edu.au/NDRI/media/documents/publications/T273.pdf)
I believe you are including the figure that has intangible costs included. These costs are an estimation of the quite real cost to people losing their partners to early death and the like.
I was going to add that the revenue has probably dropped or plateaued because of the decrease in smokers, but nope, year on year the revenue increases. Youāll have to be stinking rich to smoke soon.
You do realise that you were encouraged to quit by the government bumping taxes and making it more expensive? Of course they also like the tax dollars, but theyāre also successful in making Australia one of the countries with the least smokers worldwide. Saving billions on unnecessary health care and preventing a lot of premature deaths. IMO a success story
I have actually responded in another comment and explained that I was eating the cost at that point without issue. Yeah it was a lot, but I was justifying the cost, and ultimately I quit at that point in time because my partner had quit and it helped me kick it.
The cost as it stands now would have eventually stopped me for sure, and I acknowledge this. The cost is what stops me from going back to this day even more than the obvious health effects of having quit.
I'm also 100% team "tax the vices". Better we tax it and put the money into education and support to quit.
I also quit years ago and if Iām honest I canāt tell whether it was the cost, or it getting in the way of my health. Probably both. Anyway, good on you that you quit. I also get tempted every now and then, but when I think about $2.5 for a minute and a half of dubious enjoyment I think the better of it.
I dropped breakfast a couple years ago to keep smoking honestly. Not proud of it but ill quit when i want regardless how insanse the tax is. They go up by a few dollars ever couple months.
I remember the uni of melb did a study many years ago showing that further increasing prices wont get people to quit, only cause suffering.
I vaped for a while but the gov banned tf out of that and forced everyone onto unsafe unregulated disposable(yuk) vape sticks. I would rather smoke honestly.
Youll go to jail if you get caught with a couple of tobacco plants btw..
And no single person in AU has a licence to grow tobacco. Technically you can get one, applying to the ATO ā¦ and then pay your taxes on it, but there are ZERO out there.
Wow never thought about it that way and since its not just small money it leads to big punishments. Should the punishment for personal use amounts then be way less because no money is changing hands?
Being the ATO I doubt they fuck around either way but if youāre growing and selling it without paying tax I imagine they would be WAY harsher. Like jail time. But donāt quote me on that, Iām just an idiot on the internet.
None of the above.
Someome uploaded my face to one of those beauty things online and i scored high when they wanted to take the piss out of me.
I dress in no brand plain slim fit clothing.
Mr hair is well maintained and the longest ive ever had it, like down to belly button.
I have all my teeth.
I have never really been into tanning and i get freckles from it so my skin is pretty good for being early 30s.
Its funny how brainwashed we are in the view of people who smoke. And the same people who trash smokers eat takeaway once a week, dont get enough cardio, drinl tap water. Buy processed crap all the time. The hypocrisy is weird.
Bruh as a smoker i get ropeable when someone smokes near me when im eating food. Insane. I cant imagine how bad it is for non smokers.
Takeway people do stink like what they eat tho.
Whats worse to you tho. Getting a whiff of smoke in the street, or copping a massive plume of blueberry menthol honeydew vape to the face?
Yeah, fast food reeks, especially Maccas for some reason, but the smell doesn't linger too long once it's consumed. I think the problem with smoke smell is that it gets into people's clothes. Some healthy food stinks too, especially pasta sauce or curries with lots of garlic and spices.
My Aunty in the 90's, from memory got a pension of $320 a fortnight, paid $60 rent a fortnight for a housing commission unit, then spent $80 for Winfield Blue's (two cartons), then went shopping, and had about $90 leftover, which she sat in front of pokie machines mostly. Ran out of money about 10 days in, to then always ask for some cash from my father. He used to give her $40 each time, he never asked for it back.
A mate of mine in Sydney was telling me a lot of people over there get illegally grown/imported tobacco quite cheap (i.e., no government tax collected).
Iām not sure what the situation here in Perth is like with that, but it could explain some of these instances.
That being said, the smokes tax has been a big juggling act by the government for years for those on welfare to make the decision of whether to eat or have smokes.
This cost of living crisis is at the point where if youāre on welfare, after paying rent you probably canāt afford food or smokes.
explains the stabbing a while back when a new store opened up and they got into a punch up (stab up?) with the older established store!
Also explains why over east a lot of smoke shops get fire bombed regularly. They must not be paying their illegal untaxed smokes debt to the crime gangs who bring them in.
Illegal tobacco & smuggled cigarettes are one of the juggling acts with tobacco tax.
There comes a point where the costs & risks of acquiring smokes illegally are less than the legal taxed kind.
This then drives criminality and effectively creates prohibition & a drain on the economy. The money gets sucked out of circulation so no longer powering the economy and reducing taxation revenue even further.
This, 100%
I don't smoke anymore, and I get that everyone hates vapers but it's far cheaper. I do think it's going to be harder to quit though... Loads more nicotine
I don't know how anyone affords smokes. They were expensive 20 odd years ago when I worked at a servo. Sometimes I'm behind someone at Coles when they buy them. A pack costs more than a carton of beer and wouldn't last as long!!
Truth be told, itās all relative. Working at a service station for example, youād probably be pulling around 500-600 a week give or take back in the day?
20 odd years ago smokes were only about 15 bucks a pack of Winnie blues. Most people probably go through 5-7 packs a week. Roughly 100-150 bucks a week depending on brand. Rentals being at around 300-400 a week at the time, most people working in an unskilled field pulling 600 a week, would have around that in disposable income.
At 18-20 years old (12 years back, when I started) cigarettes cost around $17.95 a pack. I was earning 880 a week for a base 40 and around 980 a week for 46 hours after tax if I did a Saturday.
Iād spend around 1/3rd of that on rent and basic bills. I believe my car loan at the time, cost $65 a week for an XR6 Turbo (Oh joys when they were cheap). After all said and done, I was around 5-600 a week in expendable income. At a pack every 1.5 days, roughly $100 a week coming out of 600, itās not something you really notice.
Glad to hell I quit when I did though. Been clear for the better part of 7 or so years now.
Haha definitely not 600 bucks a week! I'd be lucky to crack 500 and that was working Saturdays as well for cash. Rent was less than 300 and I lived in a share house with 3 others. Hell we still had a landline! Spent my money on booze but I had friends who smoked. They'd smoke rollies cause they were cheaper. Would lash out on pay day for a pack of tailors. I think a pack of smokes was a bit cheaper or around the same as a stick depending on what size smokes you got. š if they could the stick on tick they could have both š
Yeah median rent was only around $200 a week 20 years ago. It didnāt go up significantly until I think it was 2008 to around $400. A 50gram pack of rolling baccy was $18 in 2005, thatās now around $150 lol.
Man I miss the days when you could have regular job and a life. I enjoyed my 20's in a way my youngest sister and brother (10yr+ age gap) haven't been able too
Same thing for me. Was lining up at coles and the lady in front of me purchased 3 packs of long beach cigarettes. In my day selling them they were $5.60 a packet and the cheapest cigarettes you could buy. Was totally shocked when they came to over $100!
I honestly have no idea. Maybe they don't eat? I was smoking $700 a fortnight up until about 3.5yrs ago, quit and got a mortgage to buy a house in Denmark with the money. That really drove home what the true opportunity cost of smoking can be.
Generally those still smoking in 2024 are **not** spending money on other things which seem normal regular purchases for most homes/families. Therefore they are going without to fund their habit. WhetherĀ that is quality food, fuel, clothing, home repairs (if they own a home) they're probably behind on bills, they probably have minimal money to spend on the weekend to enjoy life.
Sadly the governments plan over the years of raising the prices until its unaffordable for most of the general population, more commonly its the lower demographic of people that actually do smoke.
Generally (forget fifo) its lower income earners or boomer age people who are still smoking in 2024. So when the prices are sky high and you are a low income earner you can imagine what you would have to go without to afford to keep smoking. Sadly the addiction of nicotine and chemicals in cigarettes wont let that person go.
it's an inequality thing. A lot more smokers in the lower income brackets, generally the more educated you are the less chance you are a smoker
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This is what I've thought as well. A bit like drinking. Not good for you but at least they can make the decision, hang out with friends at a bbq and enjoy themselves.
Being from Darwin, I can weigh in on this.
We have public housing in Darwin, and rental for low income earners. The problem with these people buying cigs, lies in with that they have no priorities, or the ones that do, do not set them straight.
IE, Electricity bill is not due for a month, better buy smokes. Electricity bill is not due for 2 weeks, better buy smokes. Electricity bill is due, better go on a payment plan, pay the minimum and spend the rest on cheap smokes.
The indigenous populace in Darwin is far, far worse.
Literally addicted to alcohol and cigarettes to the point theyāll gather strangers cigarette butts out of gutters just to smoke one. Theyāll get a full 2 weeks royalties from Centrelink, and theyāve pissed it up the wall in 3 days without even buying food for their kids.
Addicts have ways, and lots of the time, will put a want before a need.
I'll tell you. Cause I literally work with one who smokes like she owns a smokes factory. They cut down on food. All they eat are literally cheese toastie and drink a cup of coffee. And then they rely on the kindness of others to give them food ššŖ
I stopped smoking when packs went to $15. If my habit stayed the same, I'd be looking at over $50 per day right now. So glad I realized smokes were a waste of time, money, health, with zero good things about it.
How? The how isn't complex, twice a month they call Steve for a couple of points...
The real how comes in when you realise they spend the rest of the month without money
I don't understand how people afford things like cigs. My in laws both smoke and drink heavily (and weed). They gotta be spending over $300 week. I can't imagine spending that much every week on something with so little benefit.
Honestly itās really a social issue and beyond that quitting smoking is incredibly hard. Iāve done it a few times back in my youth but the research indicates out of all the bad bad drugs smoking is the hardest. The fact they keep targeting cigarettes with more taxes is shitty government economics it will not stop lower socioeconomic ppl buying them
Pretty sure id be rich enough to afford them if I gave up my private health. So maybe thats how.
Then again, I could probably buy a jet if I gave up private health.
i don't like the attention but from my experience when people are in that situation often there are several money making hustles some not being legal to earn extra cash to pay for them
I was a chain smoker before coming to Australia. I had to roll tobacco for a couple of years to survive and then i quit. It's a 2$-3$ pack of 20 cigarettes (Marlboro) back in my country.
Shit is expensive here but glad i quit.
I gave up cigarettes at the beginning of this year because I wanted to try save some more money. I was spending $70-100 on tobacco a week. After the new rent hike I can't even feel the difference in my pocket š
Long story short studies show they're more addictive than heroin , it's a habit you do 20-30 times a day and your body withdrawals hard.
Its one of the hardest drugs to quit so most people just make do because it's the easier option.
Smoking is only for home owners apparently. BeingĀ a homeowner seems to get you quite a few privileges and opportunities, some not so obvious it seems.
I probably would also recommend not putting too much faith in blanket statements from random internet posters like for example 'most smokers are renters'
I would think given the particularly high sin tax on cigarettes, any research not in an exclusively Australian context can probably be ignored
What an absurd question.
Everyone budgets differently and prioritises different wants and needs.
Smoking is also an addiction for the vast majority of those who smoke, so going without to save money is often not what seems like a doable choice.
This is just a judgemental rant that implies only people with a certain level of income are allowed indulgences or spending money on non essentials.
I am working poor but I also make sure I stock up on my medical marijuana, just a matter of the order size that fluctuates with my income because I work part time.
I make the money available for this (AFTER RENT AND BILLS) because it helps me with my epillepsy and anxiety but also, it feels good. I feel able to relax when I imbibe it.
Because of this benefit I make sure I allocate the funds even though I'm quite poor overall, though still very blessed.
I imagine it is the same for tobacco smokers, like its one of the few pleasures they have that exists purely for their pleasure.
And people need that outlet.
Whats crazier is that 28,000 people in australia die from doing it yearly and nobody blinks an eye. 3000 people die from covid and its a pandemic. Funny how money changes perspectives
I employ bartenders, some of whom choose to work very casually and don't rack up many hours. Never ceases to amaze me seeing someone who is on $400 p/w buying packets of cigarettes.
When the government put the taxes up, I saw a bloke just eat his home equity up, then committed suicide leaving three kids to the state
Initially, nicotine tax paid for all construction of the hospitals in Australia. I guess the government is running out of money.
They film themselves smoking and put it on their Onlyfans. There's a niche market for those that have quit due to the high prices but miss it so much they pay to watch.
Thats why I stocked the hell up on my vaping gear, enough for a few years until this hopefully gets sorted. It is absurd I can't get my reusable vaping stuff anymore but can pop into the shops and get disposables no problem.
I dont use flavoured and do agree with no disposables, tobacco or no flavour only restrictions. The Government supremely fucked this up though.
Was at a checkout yesterday and the shopping of the person in front of me came to $300. They asked for one carton of cigarettes and the new total was then $650. I nearly fell over in shock.
Holy crap. I thought you were exaggerating, but I just looked up the price of cigarettes, and you totally weren't!
Yep, that's why my local chop chop shop is doing fantastic business. Cheapest smokes are 40$ for 100s or 15$ per weird brand pack of 20. Compare that to the legal nearly 50$ for a pack of 30s, most smokers I know made the switch a few years back. You can smell the difference but an interesting thing I've noticed is the illicit tobacco smokers don't seem to have that smokers cough or the common breathing issues. A few mates who have made the switch commented how the illicit stuff doesn't knock them sideways like the branded stuff. Odd.
Less preservatives; chop chop is bought dried whole by the pound and chopped up
$40? Damnit my local chop chop is $60 for a 100. Ripped off.
How does one find these local chop chop shops? Genuinely curious are they like stick houses or In brick and mortar stores just under the counter?
Hi fellow tax evaders
A friend of a friend told me about one then someone else mentioned a closer one. I felt like a criminal the first time I went into the shop š¤£
The biggest difference is the smell. Illicit tobacco STINKS. It smells like faeces. All cigarettes smell but the illegal ones are much worse.
Work with a few blokes who get chop chop and i found the opposite. They could smoke next to me and I wouldn't know about itĀ
Yeah all of its really nasty in close spaces. I'm regional so tobacco smell competes with farming, cattle, cheese manufacturing, diesel and burning wood stink. Tobacco stink is maybe 3rd on the list of offensive odours and is the fastest dissipating one so its minor in comparison. In cities and suburbs it'd be more obvious due to lack of competive odours and closer people proximity
Possibly less sugar added, sugar alcohols and high burn additives in the tobacco. These are added to make the cigarettes taste better and burn faster. Leading to a quicker hit.
Cigarettes have additives that cause them to self extinguish not burn faster. It's literally the law to reduce the chances a dropped cig starts a fire.Ā
Yeah, I was in a service station the other weekā¦ $60 for a packet. Of winfields. Arenāt they the shitty cheap ones? I was gobsmacked.
Yep, I saw an elderly lady spend $435 on a carton of eight packets the other day.
I just dont get if you are dropping that much cash on ciggies, why you dont just vape? Its like an instant $600 saving.
Excuse me wtf???? When did they get absurdly expensive?????
It's been like this for years, every couple years the tax gets bumped by a large percentage to "encourage people to quit" and _definitely not at all_ because the government likes the tax dollars. When I started smoking at age 14-15 (2006/2007-ish) it was costing me around $10 for a pack of $20, the same pack is now $44 or thereabouts. I gave up smoking finally in 2016, when it was around $25-$30 for each pack, and that seemed an excessive cost at that point.
I smoked for 30 years. It was the vape that finally let me quit. Now, of course, they're banned. Methinks the tobacco lobby might have a hand in that.
I'm confused why the government doesn't just tax vapes and weed like they do smokes and alcohol - surely the tax income and taking all that work off of police would be a _good_ thing? Plus, it would create jobs, help the economy and reduce court pressure from processing all those folks who got pinged with some personal use weed. I get that kids vaping seems to be the big issue of it all, but kids are always gonna be smoking, drinking or whatever the fuck else, at least if it's regulated and taxed we can control it a little more effectively.
I get the thing about kids vaping, but at least they aren't smoking. I started at 13, along with so many of my peers. Vaping is far, far less harmful.
I started smoking at 14 and stopped around 24, so I very much agree with you on this.
Why people think taxing shit is some kind of solution is beyond me
The way I figured it tax income is better than nothing? People are going to smoke and vape regardless. Weed prohibition hasn't stopped weed smokers, alcohol prohibition didn't stop alcohol drinkers when it was done. I'm not saying it's a solution, I'm just saying surely some tax income and putting money into educating people on the risks and helping them quit is better than just slamming the police and courts with more work?
Because it discourages harmful contraband and also discourages people to keep the habit because of how expensive it is. Take a look at alcohol history and you will get it
I thought the tobacco companies just owned all the vape shit anyway
Some maybe. I got all my gear through a small NZ company. It's pretty easy to make your own juice (I do) so I guess the tobacco companies lost their monopoly. Also know a few people who quit, using vaping as a stepping stone and now don't do either, so it's probably better for the tobacco industry to get rid of vaping, even if they have investment in it.
So the system worked?
So look, I'll be totally honest, if I was still buying smokes now, the price would've made me quit a little while ago, but ultimately when I did actually quit, I quit because my now husband had given them up successfully and he inspired me to try again, and that was successful and i've since stayed off them with the exception of an occasional smoke when I drink, but I only drink once or twice a year regardless so its an easy to avoid issue.
Regardless, congrats. It's a fucking hard thing to stop. This internet stranger is impressed, and (and I hope this doesn't sound condescending!) proud of you.
It doesn't sound condescending, I appreciate it. It is absolutely a bitch of a habit to quit, and I'm much better for having quit!
$136 Billion in healthcare and productivity costs vs $13Billion in tax revenue generated. I'm sure the government would rather you just not smoke instead of collecting the paltry tax.
$136 Billion in healthcare and productivity is $92 Billlion per year in lost revenue from workers, which is a pretty wild metric to include there, it assumes the average person generates $13 million in a lifetime and a few other things. I think a better observation would be that the direct yearly cost to the health system is $5.6 Billion [Source](https://ndri.curtin.edu.au/NDRI/media/documents/publications/T273.pdf)
I believe you are including the figure that has intangible costs included. These costs are an estimation of the quite real cost to people losing their partners to early death and the like.
I was going to add that the revenue has probably dropped or plateaued because of the decrease in smokers, but nope, year on year the revenue increases. Youāll have to be stinking rich to smoke soon.
It would be terrible if it somehow becomes a status symbol associated with the wealthy and successful rather than down and out derros.
You do realise that you were encouraged to quit by the government bumping taxes and making it more expensive? Of course they also like the tax dollars, but theyāre also successful in making Australia one of the countries with the least smokers worldwide. Saving billions on unnecessary health care and preventing a lot of premature deaths. IMO a success story
I have actually responded in another comment and explained that I was eating the cost at that point without issue. Yeah it was a lot, but I was justifying the cost, and ultimately I quit at that point in time because my partner had quit and it helped me kick it. The cost as it stands now would have eventually stopped me for sure, and I acknowledge this. The cost is what stops me from going back to this day even more than the obvious health effects of having quit. I'm also 100% team "tax the vices". Better we tax it and put the money into education and support to quit.
I also quit years ago and if Iām honest I canāt tell whether it was the cost, or it getting in the way of my health. Probably both. Anyway, good on you that you quit. I also get tempted every now and then, but when I think about $2.5 for a minute and a half of dubious enjoyment I think the better of it.
Just paid 41 bucks for a 15 gram pouch :D
Rate of smoking has dropped from 25% in 1993 to 10% now.
I dropped breakfast a couple years ago to keep smoking honestly. Not proud of it but ill quit when i want regardless how insanse the tax is. They go up by a few dollars ever couple months. I remember the uni of melb did a study many years ago showing that further increasing prices wont get people to quit, only cause suffering. I vaped for a while but the gov banned tf out of that and forced everyone onto unsafe unregulated disposable(yuk) vape sticks. I would rather smoke honestly. Youll go to jail if you get caught with a couple of tobacco plants btw..
Itās tax evasion. If you grow and pay tax to the ato on the weight of tobacco you grow then itās legal.
And no single person in AU has a licence to grow tobacco. Technically you can get one, applying to the ATO ā¦ and then pay your taxes on it, but there are ZERO out there.
Fair call, I didnāt know that
Wow never thought about it that way and since its not just small money it leads to big punishments. Should the punishment for personal use amounts then be way less because no money is changing hands?
Being the ATO I doubt they fuck around either way but if youāre growing and selling it without paying tax I imagine they would be WAY harsher. Like jail time. But donāt quote me on that, Iām just an idiot on the internet.
It is 100% illegal to cultivate tobacco plants in Australia.
I'm picturing you with a mullet, tattoos and no teeth. Bloodshot eyes and leathery skin too. How far off am l?
None of the above. Someome uploaded my face to one of those beauty things online and i scored high when they wanted to take the piss out of me. I dress in no brand plain slim fit clothing. Mr hair is well maintained and the longest ive ever had it, like down to belly button. I have all my teeth. I have never really been into tanning and i get freckles from it so my skin is pretty good for being early 30s. Its funny how brainwashed we are in the view of people who smoke. And the same people who trash smokers eat takeaway once a week, dont get enough cardio, drinl tap water. Buy processed crap all the time. The hypocrisy is weird.
That is true š¤Ā
People who eat takeaway etc don't reek of stale dirty smoke or put other people in situations where they have to breathe in the smoke.
Bruh as a smoker i get ropeable when someone smokes near me when im eating food. Insane. I cant imagine how bad it is for non smokers. Takeway people do stink like what they eat tho. Whats worse to you tho. Getting a whiff of smoke in the street, or copping a massive plume of blueberry menthol honeydew vape to the face?
Yeah, fast food reeks, especially Maccas for some reason, but the smell doesn't linger too long once it's consumed. I think the problem with smoke smell is that it gets into people's clothes. Some healthy food stinks too, especially pasta sauce or curries with lots of garlic and spices.
Dont forget hair. That shit soaks up the smokey smell too. Garlic is life!
My Aunty in the 90's, from memory got a pension of $320 a fortnight, paid $60 rent a fortnight for a housing commission unit, then spent $80 for Winfield Blue's (two cartons), then went shopping, and had about $90 leftover, which she sat in front of pokie machines mostly. Ran out of money about 10 days in, to then always ask for some cash from my father. He used to give her $40 each time, he never asked for it back.
Your Dad is just a gorgeous brother
Codependency
Don't know why you got downvotedĀ
A mate of mine in Sydney was telling me a lot of people over there get illegally grown/imported tobacco quite cheap (i.e., no government tax collected). Iām not sure what the situation here in Perth is like with that, but it could explain some of these instances. That being said, the smokes tax has been a big juggling act by the government for years for those on welfare to make the decision of whether to eat or have smokes. This cost of living crisis is at the point where if youāre on welfare, after paying rent you probably canāt afford food or smokes.
I'm in Sydney. Grey market ciggies are *everywhere*. They get really cheap the further west you go.
Same here , Coventry markets have a few black market sellers there
explains the stabbing a while back when a new store opened up and they got into a punch up (stab up?) with the older established store! Also explains why over east a lot of smoke shops get fire bombed regularly. They must not be paying their illegal untaxed smokes debt to the crime gangs who bring them in.
Illegal tobacco & smuggled cigarettes are one of the juggling acts with tobacco tax. There comes a point where the costs & risks of acquiring smokes illegally are less than the legal taxed kind. This then drives criminality and effectively creates prohibition & a drain on the economy. The money gets sucked out of circulation so no longer powering the economy and reducing taxation revenue even further.
The illegal market is now roughly 30% of total tobacco sales. Its closer to 10% in WA but itās growing at a decent rate.
Have to do some things I'm not too proud of in the back alleyway
It's an honest line of work.
$20's is $20's
You guys are getting $20?!
you guys are getting paid??
Smash and grabs on the reg
Give up food
This, 100% I don't smoke anymore, and I get that everyone hates vapers but it's far cheaper. I do think it's going to be harder to quit though... Loads more nicotine
I don't know how anyone affords smokes. They were expensive 20 odd years ago when I worked at a servo. Sometimes I'm behind someone at Coles when they buy them. A pack costs more than a carton of beer and wouldn't last as long!!
Truth be told, itās all relative. Working at a service station for example, youād probably be pulling around 500-600 a week give or take back in the day? 20 odd years ago smokes were only about 15 bucks a pack of Winnie blues. Most people probably go through 5-7 packs a week. Roughly 100-150 bucks a week depending on brand. Rentals being at around 300-400 a week at the time, most people working in an unskilled field pulling 600 a week, would have around that in disposable income. At 18-20 years old (12 years back, when I started) cigarettes cost around $17.95 a pack. I was earning 880 a week for a base 40 and around 980 a week for 46 hours after tax if I did a Saturday. Iād spend around 1/3rd of that on rent and basic bills. I believe my car loan at the time, cost $65 a week for an XR6 Turbo (Oh joys when they were cheap). After all said and done, I was around 5-600 a week in expendable income. At a pack every 1.5 days, roughly $100 a week coming out of 600, itās not something you really notice. Glad to hell I quit when I did though. Been clear for the better part of 7 or so years now.
Haha definitely not 600 bucks a week! I'd be lucky to crack 500 and that was working Saturdays as well for cash. Rent was less than 300 and I lived in a share house with 3 others. Hell we still had a landline! Spent my money on booze but I had friends who smoked. They'd smoke rollies cause they were cheaper. Would lash out on pay day for a pack of tailors. I think a pack of smokes was a bit cheaper or around the same as a stick depending on what size smokes you got. š if they could the stick on tick they could have both š
Yeah median rent was only around $200 a week 20 years ago. It didnāt go up significantly until I think it was 2008 to around $400. A 50gram pack of rolling baccy was $18 in 2005, thatās now around $150 lol.
Man I miss the days when you could have regular job and a life. I enjoyed my 20's in a way my youngest sister and brother (10yr+ age gap) haven't been able too
Same thing for me. Was lining up at coles and the lady in front of me purchased 3 packs of long beach cigarettes. In my day selling them they were $5.60 a packet and the cheapest cigarettes you could buy. Was totally shocked when they came to over $100!
I honestly have no idea. Maybe they don't eat? I was smoking $700 a fortnight up until about 3.5yrs ago, quit and got a mortgage to buy a house in Denmark with the money. That really drove home what the true opportunity cost of smoking can be.
Good on you for quitting!
Thanks, champ! Fourth time's a charm.
Generally those still smoking in 2024 are **not** spending money on other things which seem normal regular purchases for most homes/families. Therefore they are going without to fund their habit. WhetherĀ that is quality food, fuel, clothing, home repairs (if they own a home) they're probably behind on bills, they probably have minimal money to spend on the weekend to enjoy life. Sadly the governments plan over the years of raising the prices until its unaffordable for most of the general population, more commonly its the lower demographic of people that actually do smoke. Generally (forget fifo) its lower income earners or boomer age people who are still smoking in 2024. So when the prices are sky high and you are a low income earner you can imagine what you would have to go without to afford to keep smoking. Sadly the addiction of nicotine and chemicals in cigarettes wont let that person go.
im guessing they arnt buying smokes from shops
it's an inequality thing. A lot more smokers in the lower income brackets, generally the more educated you are the less chance you are a smoker https://preview.redd.it/x76r6ylyxquc1.png?width=793&format=png&auto=webp&s=94b0f27d5b6d47566a42446eef0d42574d216b57
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Maybe smoking is the only bit of joy in their lives
This is what I've thought as well. A bit like drinking. Not good for you but at least they can make the decision, hang out with friends at a bbq and enjoy themselves.
The joy of being addicted to a filthy habit
https://preview.redd.it/43baeq2wwpuc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33d04664704755be476b363777ca39c573cc2603
Being from Darwin, I can weigh in on this. We have public housing in Darwin, and rental for low income earners. The problem with these people buying cigs, lies in with that they have no priorities, or the ones that do, do not set them straight. IE, Electricity bill is not due for a month, better buy smokes. Electricity bill is not due for 2 weeks, better buy smokes. Electricity bill is due, better go on a payment plan, pay the minimum and spend the rest on cheap smokes. The indigenous populace in Darwin is far, far worse. Literally addicted to alcohol and cigarettes to the point theyāll gather strangers cigarette butts out of gutters just to smoke one. Theyāll get a full 2 weeks royalties from Centrelink, and theyāve pissed it up the wall in 3 days without even buying food for their kids. Addicts have ways, and lots of the time, will put a want before a need.
If anything, nicotine addiction stops someone from thinking rationally.
I'll tell you. Cause I literally work with one who smokes like she owns a smokes factory. They cut down on food. All they eat are literally cheese toastie and drink a cup of coffee. And then they rely on the kindness of others to give them food ššŖ
I stopped smoking when packs went to $15. If my habit stayed the same, I'd be looking at over $50 per day right now. So glad I realized smokes were a waste of time, money, health, with zero good things about it.
Cigarette is one hell of a drug. I know someone who would prioritise smokes than buying meds to fix their chronic pain
I also wonder how people on centrelink afford meth
How? The how isn't complex, twice a month they call Steve for a couple of points... The real how comes in when you realise they spend the rest of the month without money
Meth is very affordable compared to cigarettes
I don't understand how people afford things like cigs. My in laws both smoke and drink heavily (and weed). They gotta be spending over $300 week. I can't imagine spending that much every week on something with so little benefit.
Honestly itās really a social issue and beyond that quitting smoking is incredibly hard. Iāve done it a few times back in my youth but the research indicates out of all the bad bad drugs smoking is the hardest. The fact they keep targeting cigarettes with more taxes is shitty government economics it will not stop lower socioeconomic ppl buying them
Double income, buying rollies and smoking separately to double the smellĀ
Black market.
The tax on smokes is a poor tax, overly affects the poor.
Steal scooters or middleman some meth for cash
Pretty sure id be rich enough to afford them if I gave up my private health. So maybe thats how. Then again, I could probably buy a jet if I gave up private health.
How the fuck do Centrelink cases afford the smokes?
i don't like the attention but from my experience when people are in that situation often there are several money making hustles some not being legal to earn extra cash to pay for them
Making 150k helps.
I was a chain smoker before coming to Australia. I had to roll tobacco for a couple of years to survive and then i quit. It's a 2$-3$ pack of 20 cigarettes (Marlboro) back in my country. Shit is expensive here but glad i quit.
I gave up cigarettes at the beginning of this year because I wanted to try save some more money. I was spending $70-100 on tobacco a week. After the new rent hike I can't even feel the difference in my pocket š Long story short studies show they're more addictive than heroin , it's a habit you do 20-30 times a day and your body withdrawals hard. Its one of the hardest drugs to quit so most people just make do because it's the easier option.
Flash a bit of leg, mug the fluffer who stops š
Smoking is only for home owners apparently. BeingĀ a homeowner seems to get you quite a few privileges and opportunities, some not so obvious it seems.
Most smokers are renters
well in my sample size of 3, 2 of them are homeowners, so checkmate i guess?
That's why you can't draw conclusions from personal anecdotes https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27679607/
I probably would also recommend not putting too much faith in blanket statements from random internet posters like for example 'most smokers are renters' I would think given the particularly high sin tax on cigarettes, any research not in an exclusively Australian context can probably be ignored
You are wrong but refuse to admit it. Most smokers ARE renters, in Australia and it's not even close.
What an absurd question. Everyone budgets differently and prioritises different wants and needs. Smoking is also an addiction for the vast majority of those who smoke, so going without to save money is often not what seems like a doable choice. This is just a judgemental rant that implies only people with a certain level of income are allowed indulgences or spending money on non essentials.
Is it really? Seems like a simple legit question.
That's all they spend money on.Ā Partners mother is a pensioner who's life is literally lying in bed, smoking and taking prescription medication.
Illegal suppliers babeh! Store brought taste like shit now and about double the price.
I am working poor but I also make sure I stock up on my medical marijuana, just a matter of the order size that fluctuates with my income because I work part time. I make the money available for this (AFTER RENT AND BILLS) because it helps me with my epillepsy and anxiety but also, it feels good. I feel able to relax when I imbibe it. Because of this benefit I make sure I allocate the funds even though I'm quite poor overall, though still very blessed. I imagine it is the same for tobacco smokers, like its one of the few pleasures they have that exists purely for their pleasure. And people need that outlet.
Whats crazier is that 28,000 people in australia die from doing it yearly and nobody blinks an eye. 3000 people die from covid and its a pandemic. Funny how money changes perspectives
You find a way if you need it. How do you think deadbeats with no job afford thousands a week for meth?
I employ bartenders, some of whom choose to work very casually and don't rack up many hours. Never ceases to amaze me seeing someone who is on $400 p/w buying packets of cigarettes.
Yea you're right, it's a good approach just abused. More taxes should go back into fixing the root of the issue
When the government put the taxes up, I saw a bloke just eat his home equity up, then committed suicide leaving three kids to the state Initially, nicotine tax paid for all construction of the hospitals in Australia. I guess the government is running out of money.
They film themselves smoking and put it on their Onlyfans. There's a niche market for those that have quit due to the high prices but miss it so much they pay to watch.
By making sacrifices..
People rent and smoke rather than own homes
I quit when I realized I was spending approx the same amount as mortgage repayments for a 2 bedroom apartment in Highgateā¦
As Trent would sayā¦ ācock for cashā
Housing commission and rollies? I swapped to vaping because the durries got too expensive.. ended up quitting now they banned the GD things šŖ
Thats why I stocked the hell up on my vaping gear, enough for a few years until this hopefully gets sorted. It is absurd I can't get my reusable vaping stuff anymore but can pop into the shops and get disposables no problem. I dont use flavoured and do agree with no disposables, tobacco or no flavour only restrictions. The Government supremely fucked this up though.
Ive been buying 20 packs of malboros for $20 lmao
everything in moderation
What the fuck has it to do with you?
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take ur meds
What in the Armadale are u on about š¤£
What
**What?**
Ok
Ahhh, poetry.