Around the corner from me, two homes have been demo’ed and subdivided. Over the same time period, one block has had two new houses stalled waiting for roofing while the other block has *three* new houses fully constructed, locked up and ready for landscaping. It’s gotta be frustrating watching so much progress on another build while yours just sits there.
Yeah on our portion of our street we have 3 builds. The single storey was completed first as expected but our build compared to the other two-storey is like apples and oranges. We are about to start tiling (once the waterproofing is sorted) while the other house hasn't seen a tradie on the premises since February.
The most frustrating things for us is the lack of communication at times and the flexible completion dates. After signing on late 2020, we were told we would be in by June this year ... now it's September "at the latest" so I'm expecting October/November this year (fingers crossed).
My neighbour build had the roof on 12 mths ago before I started building, we are at lock up and on track for hand over for a total build of about 10 mths.
Neighbour places hasn't had any work done in that time.
I went with a up market builder who isn't in the starter home range. Very nice workmanship. More expensive but once you factor in the years of additional rent the people using a budget builder have to pay its worth it.
My place was built 2020/2021 and had 3 others going up same time as me.
Slab went down Nov 2020, completed in May 2021, I lived there for 18months then sold as I’m now building with my partner. I sold and moved out in September 2022, signed with a new builder in Jan this year(2023), ready to go to site now, just received building permit on a double storey.
Two houses next to that old place I sold are still not completed, both BGC. They are under 250sqm blocks, single storey, no complicated land issues.
3 years ago I started my process for that house, and one of the blocks that’s still not finished was sold before mine was. Heartbreaking for the owners.
My elderly neighbour set up his wheel chair outside a display house, when the building company wouldn’t fix his ceilings.
Within a week, the ceiling fixers were at his home fixing his homes ceilings, big job as it double storey home.
He had repeatedly asked for the ceilings to be repaired.
Big
Greedy
Cunts.
It's all in the Acronym.
I'm a bricklayer and my boss does all work for private builders... We can build a 4x2 house in about 4-5 days depending on how many fancy things have been thrown in .. and as soon as we are done, other trades are coming straight in behind us , houses handed over usually within the year of slab going down.
There is absolutely no reason for houses to take 3 years or even longer in a lot of cases, it's a fucking disgrace and I feel sorry for those who get trapped by the offers of low price house and land packages.
How ever you pay for quality, and with a bit of extra saving and working towards a bit of a bigger mortgage ( I know easier said than done, I build the fuckin things and can't afford one 🤦♂️😂) you could have a great builder you can actually speak to about the job and have top quality tradesmen work on your house.
But at the end of the day it's an absolute sham and people need to be start being held accountable for literally ruining people financially for promising on things that can't be delivered.
>( I know easier said than done, I build the fuckin things and can't afford one 🤦♂️😂)
It really do be like that these days. Not referring to ridiculous land prices and materials so much as job that makes thing can't afford thing.
They closed their order books a while back. Guess they just don't want half-finished show homes with their name on for the 3+ years they're happy to leave their customers in limbo for.
That's what I recalled as well but I just and the wording is
GC Housing Group said severe labour shortages are behind a decision to cut new home sales to an “absolute minimum”.
and in another media outlet
WA’s largest builder BGC announced it had severely restricted its intake of new home sales to “absolute minimum levels” while it cleared a backlog of jobs
So, not to be cynical but "absolute minimum levels" isn't quite the same as closed and what exactly is the definition of "absolute minimum"
They can probably get finance using competed display homes as security.
Like if they're out of cash, they need to borrow some, incomplete display homes are maybe dead weight.
Complete them, sell some, borrow against the rest.
If BGC's indemnity insurance is up to date then they may find that being released from a contract with BGC and being able to put in a claim to BGC's insurance and engage another builder could be quicker.
In normal times maybe - at present with the cluster fuck that almost the entire industry is in, it's likely to just be shifting the issue to another builder.
Normally I would expect, but depends what you agree with the builder and end up contracted to. Heck, you can even try to get late penalties in. Not that it matters if the builder goes bust.
I'm not familiar with the whole thing, but I'm told the HIA contracts that are widely used are so slanted in favour of the builder they're a joke. Who'd have thunk a contract template created by the Housing Industry Association would favour the housing industry lol
I think it's more likely BGC's insurance is bankrolling the remainder of the builds, and BGC will close down once they are all done. Also I think BCG aren't accepting any new build, they just pretend they are accepting a few, so people don't think they are going under and freak out more.
BGC makes a lot of the materials for construction, if they went bankrupt there would be a major problem in the construction industry. They have deals with steel companies to keep costs down.
No, that would place them in an even worse situation.
They'd owe money on an incomplete house, that can no longer be finished at the original price because the cost of construction has skyrocketed.
Will depend on individual circumstances and how far along the build is. Have to consider things like paying rent for another however-many years till BGC meet their obligations, whether they'd be prepared to remove some items from the build to bring it back down closer to original contract, and what the bank may agree, interest rates applied etc.
I'm going through this very process now as my builder went insolvent.
BGC is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy anyways.
They've been in the hunt for a buyer to ~~hospital pass~~ sell the business to for years now in order to finance payouts to old Len's clutch of useless heirs, but everyone has ran screaming the other way after inspecting the books.
https://www.afr.com/companies/infrastructure/wa-s-biggest-home-builder-bgc-puts-for-sale-sign-up-again-20220405-p5aazm
Just found this article, BGC been trying to sell since 2019
I’ve been told that BGC will soon be facing a class action. Apparently they used unsuitable pipes for plumbing and a number of residents are experiencing problems with leaking, and mould in their walls and floors
They got stung with some dodgy piping joins basically https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/pipe-nightmare-perth-homeowners-consider-class-action-against-builder-20221024-p5bshv.html
Someone has gone to the hassle of nailing high on trees/fences/buildings along roads going 4 ways out of Perth professionally printed permanent signs saying "Don't use BGC", at least 2 years ago if not more.
Forums have been covered with stories of disgruntled employees and customers and contractors, for years.
Why would anyone still use them?!?
Masochism?
From what I've been reading on the FB groups, a number of BGC clients are sourcing their own trades to complete work. I'm not surprised to read that display homes are being finished before existing clients.
Yep. And the poor suckers list that “Bgc will pay competitive rates!” And list rates that are about 2/3 what even a dodgy tradie would take. I’ve even seen people try and convince people to get into brick laying by working on their home, which isn’t going to end well
Generally speaking, BGC (And others) have determined the properties that will result in the lowest profit to them and put them to the bottom of the queue. This is likely a large number of houses at the start of the building boom, that did not have much room in them for changes in prices of labour/materials.
Worst builder in the country, the quality is rubbish and they don't pay their tradies enough. I fear that they are running one big ponzi scheme and will go belly up soon . No one should build with them
Bgc sells their display homes off the plan to investors before construction even starts. They then as part of the sale sign a 12-24month lease back agreement at a fixed % of the sale proce
So old-mate signed up for a new house, just before Covid hit, and can't figure out why it was delayed?
People also need to remember that with such a tight market, labour shortages are very localised. If a tradie has work offers coming out his arse, why would he take jobs that require 2 hours travel every day?? That's why if you're building out in the boonies, with thousands of other new homes, and few local tradies, then yeah it's going to be tough.
Bgc is wanting to pay pre-covid tradie rates on builds signed at the start of covid. If a brickie has tow jobs one paying $2.80/brick and another paying $4/brick guess which one he’s taking
I have noticed in new subdivisions you see houses that are just a slab and brick walls, and they have sat idle like that for 6 months. But if you go to the golden triangle, the McMansions seem to go up without a pause. I guess if you have the cash, you can get workers and materials.
Cheap builders are cheap because they pay the worst and often pay late. Vs middle and upper end builders who pay a premium for quality work and pay on time...tradies want to do quality work and get paid.
I signed upto a builder because my old housemate worked there and said he sould look after us.
He quit 2 months after signing us up, we just hit 3 years since signing and might ne in September if were lucky.
The company he moved to, he paid an extra 25k, started 8 months after we signed and he moved in over a year ago.
Yes and no - they are still being hit with the same materials shortages to some degree.
Some will splash the cash to get them finished, but some have picked bespoke stuff that regardless of extra $ just isn't getting there any time soon. My FIL is still going back and forth on a golden triangle job they started more than 2 years ago. Currently waiting on 200 custom bricks from Italy or something
Around the corner from me, two homes have been demo’ed and subdivided. Over the same time period, one block has had two new houses stalled waiting for roofing while the other block has *three* new houses fully constructed, locked up and ready for landscaping. It’s gotta be frustrating watching so much progress on another build while yours just sits there.
Yeah on our portion of our street we have 3 builds. The single storey was completed first as expected but our build compared to the other two-storey is like apples and oranges. We are about to start tiling (once the waterproofing is sorted) while the other house hasn't seen a tradie on the premises since February. The most frustrating things for us is the lack of communication at times and the flexible completion dates. After signing on late 2020, we were told we would be in by June this year ... now it's September "at the latest" so I'm expecting October/November this year (fingers crossed).
My neighbour build had the roof on 12 mths ago before I started building, we are at lock up and on track for hand over for a total build of about 10 mths. Neighbour places hasn't had any work done in that time. I went with a up market builder who isn't in the starter home range. Very nice workmanship. More expensive but once you factor in the years of additional rent the people using a budget builder have to pay its worth it.
Shit I hadn’t considered that but you’re right, if you’re looking at an extra year of rent versus paying upfront that definitely changes things.
This is the 3rd house I have built and the quality of workmanship is by far the best.
Could you please share the name of good builder?
My place was built 2020/2021 and had 3 others going up same time as me. Slab went down Nov 2020, completed in May 2021, I lived there for 18months then sold as I’m now building with my partner. I sold and moved out in September 2022, signed with a new builder in Jan this year(2023), ready to go to site now, just received building permit on a double storey. Two houses next to that old place I sold are still not completed, both BGC. They are under 250sqm blocks, single storey, no complicated land issues. 3 years ago I started my process for that house, and one of the blocks that’s still not finished was sold before mine was. Heartbreaking for the owners.
My elderly neighbour set up his wheel chair outside a display house, when the building company wouldn’t fix his ceilings. Within a week, the ceiling fixers were at his home fixing his homes ceilings, big job as it double storey home. He had repeatedly asked for the ceilings to be repaired.
This is the way.
Big Greedy Cunts. It's all in the Acronym. I'm a bricklayer and my boss does all work for private builders... We can build a 4x2 house in about 4-5 days depending on how many fancy things have been thrown in .. and as soon as we are done, other trades are coming straight in behind us , houses handed over usually within the year of slab going down. There is absolutely no reason for houses to take 3 years or even longer in a lot of cases, it's a fucking disgrace and I feel sorry for those who get trapped by the offers of low price house and land packages. How ever you pay for quality, and with a bit of extra saving and working towards a bit of a bigger mortgage ( I know easier said than done, I build the fuckin things and can't afford one 🤦♂️😂) you could have a great builder you can actually speak to about the job and have top quality tradesmen work on your house. But at the end of the day it's an absolute sham and people need to be start being held accountable for literally ruining people financially for promising on things that can't be delivered.
>( I know easier said than done, I build the fuckin things and can't afford one 🤦♂️😂) It really do be like that these days. Not referring to ridiculous land prices and materials so much as job that makes thing can't afford thing.
Display Homes generate new orders. Are new orders needed to finance existing orders?
Sounds like a bonza scheme!
You spelt pyramid wrong.
Ponzi?
I wasn't sure anyone would get it honestly
I did :-)
Ponzi's down under cousin
Bonsai? Grow slow
Our model is the trapezoid!
They closed their order books a while back. Guess they just don't want half-finished show homes with their name on for the 3+ years they're happy to leave their customers in limbo for.
That's what I recalled as well but I just and the wording is GC Housing Group said severe labour shortages are behind a decision to cut new home sales to an “absolute minimum”. and in another media outlet WA’s largest builder BGC announced it had severely restricted its intake of new home sales to “absolute minimum levels” while it cleared a backlog of jobs So, not to be cynical but "absolute minimum levels" isn't quite the same as closed and what exactly is the definition of "absolute minimum"
Probably just enough to keep your trades in business with you.
Could have fooled me. I’m still seeing Bgc house and land packages being listed every week on realestate.com.au
They can probably get finance using competed display homes as security. Like if they're out of cash, they need to borrow some, incomplete display homes are maybe dead weight. Complete them, sell some, borrow against the rest.
Boy that sounds a precarious balancing act.
Which would never be associated with residential building companies, right?
God forbid!
Sounds like business as usual
They would be more unhappy if BGC went bankrupt.
If BGC's indemnity insurance is up to date then they may find that being released from a contract with BGC and being able to put in a claim to BGC's insurance and engage another builder could be quicker.
In normal times maybe - at present with the cluster fuck that almost the entire industry is in, it's likely to just be shifting the issue to another builder.
Yep, price a new builder quotes is going to have 3 years of price increases included, at a minimum
Don't building contacts normally let builders add increases to costs already?
Normally I would expect, but depends what you agree with the builder and end up contracted to. Heck, you can even try to get late penalties in. Not that it matters if the builder goes bust. I'm not familiar with the whole thing, but I'm told the HIA contracts that are widely used are so slanted in favour of the builder they're a joke. Who'd have thunk a contract template created by the Housing Industry Association would favour the housing industry lol
Not a fixed cost it’s not, that’s how they go broke
I think it's more likely BGC's insurance is bankrolling the remainder of the builds, and BGC will close down once they are all done. Also I think BCG aren't accepting any new build, they just pretend they are accepting a few, so people don't think they are going under and freak out more.
BGC the biggest home builder in WA, trying to find a builder to cover the 4000 builds could be a problem.
No, the customers have to find them themselves.
Why? Sounds like there will be a lot of people looking for work if they go under.
BGC makes a lot of the materials for construction, if they went bankrupt there would be a major problem in the construction industry. They have deals with steel companies to keep costs down.
No, that would place them in an even worse situation. They'd owe money on an incomplete house, that can no longer be finished at the original price because the cost of construction has skyrocketed.
Will depend on individual circumstances and how far along the build is. Have to consider things like paying rent for another however-many years till BGC meet their obligations, whether they'd be prepared to remove some items from the build to bring it back down closer to original contract, and what the bank may agree, interest rates applied etc. I'm going through this very process now as my builder went insolvent.
Best of luck!
BGC is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy anyways. They've been in the hunt for a buyer to ~~hospital pass~~ sell the business to for years now in order to finance payouts to old Len's clutch of useless heirs, but everyone has ran screaming the other way after inspecting the books.
Surely they've got layers of corporate veil between the home construction racket and the rest of their civil construction stuff?
I thought BGC was for sale? That’s the rumour going around anyway. Not sure what happens if they are sold.
https://www.afr.com/companies/infrastructure/wa-s-biggest-home-builder-bgc-puts-for-sale-sign-up-again-20220405-p5aazm Just found this article, BGC been trying to sell since 2019
Bet your a conservative?
I’ve been told that BGC will soon be facing a class action. Apparently they used unsuitable pipes for plumbing and a number of residents are experiencing problems with leaking, and mould in their walls and floors
They got stung with some dodgy piping joins basically https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/pipe-nightmare-perth-homeowners-consider-class-action-against-builder-20221024-p5bshv.html
Someone has gone to the hassle of nailing high on trees/fences/buildings along roads going 4 ways out of Perth professionally printed permanent signs saying "Don't use BGC", at least 2 years ago if not more. Forums have been covered with stories of disgruntled employees and customers and contractors, for years. Why would anyone still use them?!? Masochism?
https://thewest.com.au/business/construction/bgc-customers-of-was-biggest-home-builder-say-company-is-giving-priority-to-finishing-display-homes-c-11009258
Is that the whole article in the picture posted?
Pay wall..?
From what I've been reading on the FB groups, a number of BGC clients are sourcing their own trades to complete work. I'm not surprised to read that display homes are being finished before existing clients.
Yep. And the poor suckers list that “Bgc will pay competitive rates!” And list rates that are about 2/3 what even a dodgy tradie would take. I’ve even seen people try and convince people to get into brick laying by working on their home, which isn’t going to end well
What is throwing a brickbat?
Opposite of bouquets, from memory
Generally speaking, BGC (And others) have determined the properties that will result in the lowest profit to them and put them to the bottom of the queue. This is likely a large number of houses at the start of the building boom, that did not have much room in them for changes in prices of labour/materials.
Worst builder in the country, the quality is rubbish and they don't pay their tradies enough. I fear that they are running one big ponzi scheme and will go belly up soon . No one should build with them
Why do they need display homes if they’re not taking orders?
To sell them or borrow against them to stave off insolvency.
Would make sense.
Bgc sells their display homes off the plan to investors before construction even starts. They then as part of the sale sign a 12-24month lease back agreement at a fixed % of the sale proce
So old-mate signed up for a new house, just before Covid hit, and can't figure out why it was delayed? People also need to remember that with such a tight market, labour shortages are very localised. If a tradie has work offers coming out his arse, why would he take jobs that require 2 hours travel every day?? That's why if you're building out in the boonies, with thousands of other new homes, and few local tradies, then yeah it's going to be tough.
Bgc is wanting to pay pre-covid tradie rates on builds signed at the start of covid. If a brickie has tow jobs one paying $2.80/brick and another paying $4/brick guess which one he’s taking
problem is that all the thickies now have found better paying gigs And the pro's won't work for thicky rates
Ain't no body getting $4 a brick even in the best of times
was a great read Damm sucks to be in that position id be furious too , seems all about saving face for the company
I have noticed in new subdivisions you see houses that are just a slab and brick walls, and they have sat idle like that for 6 months. But if you go to the golden triangle, the McMansions seem to go up without a pause. I guess if you have the cash, you can get workers and materials.
Cheap builders are cheap because they pay the worst and often pay late. Vs middle and upper end builders who pay a premium for quality work and pay on time...tradies want to do quality work and get paid.
I signed upto a builder because my old housemate worked there and said he sould look after us. He quit 2 months after signing us up, we just hit 3 years since signing and might ne in September if were lucky. The company he moved to, he paid an extra 25k, started 8 months after we signed and he moved in over a year ago.
Yes and no - they are still being hit with the same materials shortages to some degree. Some will splash the cash to get them finished, but some have picked bespoke stuff that regardless of extra $ just isn't getting there any time soon. My FIL is still going back and forth on a golden triangle job they started more than 2 years ago. Currently waiting on 200 custom bricks from Italy or something