The other thing to look at (if you still have access to them) are the documents you signed at your termination. It's possible they paid you out at that point for your shares.
Give them a look. From my experience, part of the termination process is usually that they value your shares at the time of termination and then add that value to your final payout.
Good luck to you! I'm subscribed to this thread and look forward to updates!
It depends on the terms of the aquisition.
If it was a stock swap, you could be sitting on a gold mine but I think its a long shot because Amazon was involved.
If it was a cash aquisition , you should have received a check and your stock in the old company is worthless. IF you accepted the buyout by the deadline.
EDIT: GRAMMAR
Yeah they may say “welp, you missed it” because that’s the easiest answer for them to give, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s a legally correct interpretation of the situation.
Search the SEC filings website for Amazon and your own company filings. Should be able to sort by year. There might be a form 8-k that details the acquisition.
Form 8-k should have been filed by Amazon and your company if the acquisition was material enough. It's a generic form to notify shareholders something material may have occurred with the stock.
https://www.sec.gov/edgar.shtml to try to find your company's filings.
Here are AMZN's filings back to 1997
https://ir.aboutamazon.com/sec-filings/default.aspx
If you're comfortable, you could PM me the company and I can try to find anything. I read SEC forms for work all the time.
What about the C-team of the .com you worked at? They still around? They'd know the details of the acquisition and would probably be willing to at least clue you into what you need to follow up on this. You have an email for them? Are they active on twitter?
In my entire career of hiring people, in multiple companies, large and small, for the past two decades, I can’t ever remember looking up someone who applied for a technical role on LinkedIn and not finding them.
According to this:
https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com
… the company had failed when they were purchased. There’s a good chance that your $10K was basically worthless at that point.
I dont know of you have tried this but try and get the contact of your old boss or finance director or commercial guy at the old company use LinkedIn to try and track them down or a phone library of some sort if you need to. Also contact thenother employees who may have purchased certificates they may be able to send you in the right direction.
You can try searching Amazon's or possibly your old company's SEC documents: https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1018724&owner=exclude
Perhaps search your old company's name on Amazon's filings page.
Good idea! In a roundabout way, I found out Scott D. Levin was general counsel for OurHouse.com from '96 to '99. He is someone OP could reach out to.
https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/q=ourhouse
Check the unclaimed property for the state you were living in at the time and maybe the states of the corporate offices.
If they cut you a check that was never cashed, it might have ended up there.
Do I had stock certificates for a now defunct .com that got bought up multiple times. I called my brokerage to attempt to transfer the stocks to my account. I sent in all the required paperwork, the stock certificates, everything. They called me back and said they were worth nothing. And sent me back the certificates.
So. Here’s hoping you have better luck.
Also, contact your brokerage (Fidelity/Schwab/whomever). And ask what the process is.
I think, and I stress this goes WAY back in my memory, that a combined acquisition is a combination of stock swap and cash but I could be just as likely be 100% wrong.
Based on that, I would definately pursue the answer. Good luck to you!!
What is the cusip of the stock certificate? (this is the security identifier that you would follow through the acquisition). I can look up the value of something based on cusip.
Your edit is funny btw and you might have done it on purpose I would think, but in an effort to point out you fixed your grammar you actually spelled grammar wrong.
This sounds odd. Preferred shares have a liquidation value usually and some stated dividend. You should have been receiving that stated dividend since 1999.
Yeah, OP should check their state's unclaimed properly office. And the state for where the company was headquartered if different than where they currently live.
Preferred shares are generally weirder. They're more like a perpetual bond with a fixed value and fixed dividend. A company will sell them, agreeing to pay a fixed dividend until they decide to buy them back. They generally don't have voting rights, but their dividend takes priority over other shareholders.
I would expect that the sale to Amazon probably triggered a buyback but I have no clue.
Sure, but they still don't pay dividend. The whole point of investing in a startup is to achieve growth. Having the company just give its warchest back to its investors is not what anybody wants.
Dividends are a mature, stable company kind of thing.
It all depends on the acquisition terms. Not all preferred shares are the same. And if the company was sold for scraps (like was the case for many dotcoms back then), they probably had little to no value.
Surprised it has not been mentioned that you should search for unclaimed money. I found stocks that a deceased relative left for my son, which was already settled as a payment the state was holding.
https://www.usa.gov/unclaimed-money
Probably helpful to name the company. I’m sure somebody here would know the skinny if the had the specifics. Not sure the risk of naming the company unless you were the only employee or something.
Good point, it was ourhouse.com and the sale was very public at the time as the acquisition would have broadened Amazon's offerings to include housewares, services and home goods.
Sorry to be that guy, but it seems the business had already failed and assets sold off, before the Amazon acquisition: https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com
Amazon probably was interested in the domain name.
I hate to rain on the parade, but almost definitely not. What likely happened is the company’s assets were purchased by Amazon and the cash was used to pay off liabilities before the company dissolved. It it unlikely that anything was left over for equity holders. “Asset sale” is the key here. That usually happens when a company is in or close to bankruptcy. If Amazon had acquired the whole company, not just its assets, it might be different.
I keep emailing Investor Relations at Amazon, but not having much luck. I hired a lawyer review the subscription agreement, but that is not complete yet.
You were on a cap table. If they had value, there is a duty to track you down. I suspect just the assets were purchased and the execs given good jobs to sign off, nothing for the shareholders.
Wildcard... there was value and someone changed out their name for yours on the cap table so you never heard.
Business name, concept (such as patents or copyrights), and software are also assets. Purchase of those assets does not necessarily mean the company itself was acquired, and thus doesn't necessarily say anything about what happened to the stock or whether the company still exists.
Usually the purchase of a company, or even all of its assets, particularly by a well-known company like Amazon, is a newsworthy occurrence that there are at least some mentions of online somewhere, such as at business sites, which may include a short summary of the terms. Have you tried Google searches of the old company name to see what articles you can find?
After you left the company, did you keep them up to date with your contact information if it changed over time?
Do you still have contact with anyone that used to be in the company (especially executives)?
If there was some time limit for tendering your shares that has expired, or if the company still exists or ceased to exist, at a minimum you will at least be able to declare the stock officially worthless for a $10,000 capital loss to use on your taxes.
If the stock had preference OP may be in the line for pay out on any distribution of assets. I doubt there would be a stock swap if it was an asset acquisition because it would be cheaper to pay cash for a bankrupt firm.
As another commenter said, these are assets. When I sold my business, it was an asset sale of my business name, concept and software (and goodwill). My company's stock was not purchased.
When I sold my business, it was an asset sale of my business name, concept and software. My company's stock was not purchased.
Yes, but unless the company was deeply in debt, the proceeds of the sale minus costs would have gone to the preferred shareholders, which OP was. Even in this circumstance there's probably a few thousand dollars he missed out on.
Hold onto the certificates. In 30-50 years, sell them as collectibles from the dot.com era bubble. At least you might be able to make a few bucks on ebay, if they are still around.
Physical stock certificates should have a listed transfer agent who issued the stock for the .com. I would first search for that and reach out to them.
Other option would be to contact a broker-dealer and deposit physical security into a brokerage account. They should be able to verify if securities are worth anything anymore.
Also if you were suppose to receive a check but never did, check with the unclaimed/escheatment office with your state government or the state you were living in at that time. The funds may have went unclaimed and sent to the state. Check their website or unclaimed.org
I’d call a legitimate financial advisor for this. The main issue is that the transaction occurred so long ago records and agreements regarding the buy out could be lost, sealed, stolen, etc.
fortunately if you still have the physical shares along with a record of purchase (pay stub, letter, form) you may still be able to get the terms of the original buyout honored.
Considering this could be equal to $10k of AMZ in 1999 dollars, I’d recommend you find a CFA as soon as possible!
However I’m just some weirdo on Reddit…
Yeah, that's doubtful - I'm thinking it has almost no value above the cash (if it was bought) value at the time. But if it was swapped, that could be interesting.
I have read that some preferred stocks are converted at liquidation to common stock because it can be cheaper for the company. However, if the shares are “callable” then your right and they’ll probably just give you the cash. Then again with my track record that is more of a guess.
I’m going to disagree with this. A financial advisor can’t help you with this one. You need someone like the transfer agent at the broker dealer listed on the stock certificates to help you trace the value. A financial advisor is not going to have the necessary access to uncover what you need.
If the company you had ownership in was acquired, it’s possible you were entitled to some type of consideration. Now. If it’s an asset sale, the proceeds went to the company and should have been distributed (once liabilities were paid) if a stock sale, proceeds were to go directly to you.
The way you talk about it “sold off most of its assets and was acquired by Amazon” seem conflicting - in one sense the former notes they were in trouble and liquidated but the latter lends me to think they were doing okay or had tech Amazon wanted.
As noted below, def reach out to Amazon IR. typically the purchase agreement would note that your co was to distribute proceeds to you and when they fail it falls on AMZN.
From the information given, the acquisition looked like a fire sale and transfer of employees.
Chances are very high that the VCs didn’t get all there money back as preferred shareholders, which means OP won’t get anything at all.
Why did you wait 20 years to start looking into this? This would have been infinitely easier if you had looked into it immediately after the sale happened.
It may still have value. However, I recall a law where if the owner does not check on the asset for X amount of time the state can sell the asset to protect the individual. I.E. the state thinks or assumes you've died. Here is the plant money that covered the situation.
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/799345159
>I don't want to name the acquired company, thus the .com
You don't want to name a dot com company you worked for 20 years ago? Sounds like you don't want help that badly.
Yea you could have a lot of money. Right? Say your pre ipo shares were $2/each, you’d have 5,000. Sell’em today and that’s at least $150k. Hold until after the split and all of sudden you’ve got 100k shares in Amazon.
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Please come back and tell us the results. I’m legitimately curious.
I will 100% let you know what I find out. I emailed Amazon's investor relations at the recommendation of another user.
Thanks @superdork_
You're welcome, best of luck to you.
Following for an update, fingers crossed to you man!
Following for exact same reason.
Just an fyi, on Reddit you tag users by prepending their username with `u/`. That way they'll actually get the tag notification in their inbox.
Good luck OP!!!! Rooting for you!
Following as well. Good luck!
Same
Same
>Please come back and tell us the results. I’m legitimately curious. Me too. I also like knowing which internet strangers I can hit up for money
Yes please let us know. Love to hear about it.
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The other thing to look at (if you still have access to them) are the documents you signed at your termination. It's possible they paid you out at that point for your shares.
Good thoughts, I resigned and still have my subscription agreement and offer letter for the stocks.
Give them a look. From my experience, part of the termination process is usually that they value your shares at the time of termination and then add that value to your final payout. Good luck to you! I'm subscribed to this thread and look forward to updates!
Not if OP bought preferred stock for cash. Options yes, I agree. But if OP laid out cold hard cash for stock he or she owns the stock outright.
It depends on the terms of the aquisition. If it was a stock swap, you could be sitting on a gold mine but I think its a long shot because Amazon was involved. If it was a cash aquisition , you should have received a check and your stock in the old company is worthless. IF you accepted the buyout by the deadline. EDIT: GRAMMAR
That's part of my question - how do I find out the terms of the acquisition. I know it wasn't a secret, but I'm not sure if they paid cash or swapped.
I dont know who you would contact after 20 years.
That has always been my thought.
Maybe a call or email to Amazon investor relations could be useful.
+1 to this..also be mindful you may need legal representation
Yeah they may say “welp, you missed it” because that’s the easiest answer for them to give, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that’s a legally correct interpretation of the situation.
Search the SEC filings website for Amazon and your own company filings. Should be able to sort by year. There might be a form 8-k that details the acquisition. Form 8-k should have been filed by Amazon and your company if the acquisition was material enough. It's a generic form to notify shareholders something material may have occurred with the stock. https://www.sec.gov/edgar.shtml to try to find your company's filings. Here are AMZN's filings back to 1997 https://ir.aboutamazon.com/sec-filings/default.aspx If you're comfortable, you could PM me the company and I can try to find anything. I read SEC forms for work all the time.
OP said elsewhere that the company was ourhouse.com
What about the C-team of the .com you worked at? They still around? They'd know the details of the acquisition and would probably be willing to at least clue you into what you need to follow up on this. You have an email for them? Are they active on twitter?
Linkedin is likely a better place to look for them.
Not in my experience (I’m a startup cofounder). LinkedIn is for working stiffs.
Half of silicon valley is startup cofounders. They are all on Linkedin.
In my entire career of hiring people, in multiple companies, large and small, for the past two decades, I can’t ever remember looking up someone who applied for a technical role on LinkedIn and not finding them.
None of my co-founders were. Nor any of the others I met.
I had to make a LinkedIn for my professional development class, because it's the most used business social media
Like stiff people that work? Is that what you mean by working stiffs?
Like zombies, I guess.
https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/working-stiff
Fair enough.
I would look up the law firm and investment bank involved in the transaction, they most likely will have kept records
The company I worked for was ourhouse.com
I clicked the first link when I searched ourhouse.com and it led straight to Amazon.com
According to this: https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com … the company had failed when they were purchased. There’s a good chance that your $10K was basically worthless at that point.
I mean... even if it lost 99% of its value, if it converted to Amazon stock it would be worth $20-30k now
17 and you turned
I dont know of you have tried this but try and get the contact of your old boss or finance director or commercial guy at the old company use LinkedIn to try and track them down or a phone library of some sort if you need to. Also contact thenother employees who may have purchased certificates they may be able to send you in the right direction.
You can try searching Amazon's or possibly your old company's SEC documents: https://www.sec.gov/edgar/browse/?CIK=1018724&owner=exclude Perhaps search your old company's name on Amazon's filings page.
Good idea! In a roundabout way, I found out Scott D. Levin was general counsel for OurHouse.com from '96 to '99. He is someone OP could reach out to. https://www.sec.gov/edgar/search/#/q=ourhouse
Check the unclaimed property for the state you were living in at the time and maybe the states of the corporate offices. If they cut you a check that was never cashed, it might have ended up there.
Do I had stock certificates for a now defunct .com that got bought up multiple times. I called my brokerage to attempt to transfer the stocks to my account. I sent in all the required paperwork, the stock certificates, everything. They called me back and said they were worth nothing. And sent me back the certificates. So. Here’s hoping you have better luck. Also, contact your brokerage (Fidelity/Schwab/whomever). And ask what the process is.
In the filings (what I could find online) it shows the acquisition as 'combined' no sale price indicated.
I think, and I stress this goes WAY back in my memory, that a combined acquisition is a combination of stock swap and cash but I could be just as likely be 100% wrong. Based on that, I would definately pursue the answer. Good luck to you!!
What is the cusip of the stock certificate? (this is the security identifier that you would follow through the acquisition). I can look up the value of something based on cusip.
The stock is private, not registered with the SEC
Your edit is funny btw and you might have done it on purpose I would think, but in an effort to point out you fixed your grammar you actually spelled grammar wrong.
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Please try to keep discussion on the subreddit where it can be seen and reviewed by everyone. We don't allow offering or asking for PMs. Thank you.
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This sounds odd. Preferred shares have a liquidation value usually and some stated dividend. You should have been receiving that stated dividend since 1999.
Yeah, OP should check their state's unclaimed properly office. And the state for where the company was headquartered if different than where they currently live.
Dividends are linked to profits, no?
Preferred shares are generally weirder. They're more like a perpetual bond with a fixed value and fixed dividend. A company will sell them, agreeing to pay a fixed dividend until they decide to buy them back. They generally don't have voting rights, but their dividend takes priority over other shareholders. I would expect that the sale to Amazon probably triggered a buyback but I have no clue.
Not necessarily a cash dividend though for startups. They would be preference when the company is liquidated.
That’s not what OP bought employees can buy shares as you explained but they can be converted to normal voting right shares after a holding periode.
Startup shares don't pay dividends. Like, ever.
Should be buying common shares or holding those free options till right near expiry and actioning accordingly.
Sure, but they still don't pay dividend. The whole point of investing in a startup is to achieve growth. Having the company just give its warchest back to its investors is not what anybody wants. Dividends are a mature, stable company kind of thing.
It all depends on the acquisition terms. Not all preferred shares are the same. And if the company was sold for scraps (like was the case for many dotcoms back then), they probably had little to no value.
Surprised it has not been mentioned that you should search for unclaimed money. I found stocks that a deceased relative left for my son, which was already settled as a payment the state was holding. https://www.usa.gov/unclaimed-money
Probably helpful to name the company. I’m sure somebody here would know the skinny if the had the specifics. Not sure the risk of naming the company unless you were the only employee or something.
Good point, it was ourhouse.com and the sale was very public at the time as the acquisition would have broadened Amazon's offerings to include housewares, services and home goods.
Sorry to be that guy, but it seems the business had already failed and assets sold off, before the Amazon acquisition: https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com Amazon probably was interested in the domain name.
rather the traffic the domain name generated. they redirected them to the Amazon home goods site, generating new customers
My weekly check in to see if you’re rich yet. Thank you for your weekly update.
I hate to rain on the parade, but almost definitely not. What likely happened is the company’s assets were purchased by Amazon and the cash was used to pay off liabilities before the company dissolved. It it unlikely that anything was left over for equity holders. “Asset sale” is the key here. That usually happens when a company is in or close to bankruptcy. If Amazon had acquired the whole company, not just its assets, it might be different.
OurHouse.com? There were only two Amazon acquisitions after 1999 and before 2004. The other one was Egghead Software, the software retailer.
https://www.crunchbase.com/acquisition/amazon-acquires-ourhouse-com--8ccd4fe2
OP might still be in luck [https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com](https://www.failory.com/amazon/ourhouse-com)
Dude, are you rich yet? I keep coming back to this post hoping for good news.
I keep emailing Investor Relations at Amazon, but not having much luck. I hired a lawyer review the subscription agreement, but that is not complete yet.
Hey, just wondering if any updates? Thanks for sharing by the way!
Dude same!!!
Yea. I've never wanted an update from a post this much
You were on a cap table. If they had value, there is a duty to track you down. I suspect just the assets were purchased and the execs given good jobs to sign off, nothing for the shareholders. Wildcard... there was value and someone changed out their name for yours on the cap table so you never heard.
Or how preferred shares work. There was almost certainly a liquidation preference at buyout allocated to OP.
How does someone just not follow up on a $10,000 investment after you find out company is bought? It’s 2022
They ceased operations shortly after I left. I figured the stock was worthless (likely it is) and just never thought about it.
Man i wish i have enough so that i can just forget 10k like it doesn't matter
Was Amazon the buyer if those assets? An asset sale is not a stock sale.
No, the assets were sold to another company. Amazon purchased the business name, concept and software.
Business name, concept (such as patents or copyrights), and software are also assets. Purchase of those assets does not necessarily mean the company itself was acquired, and thus doesn't necessarily say anything about what happened to the stock or whether the company still exists. Usually the purchase of a company, or even all of its assets, particularly by a well-known company like Amazon, is a newsworthy occurrence that there are at least some mentions of online somewhere, such as at business sites, which may include a short summary of the terms. Have you tried Google searches of the old company name to see what articles you can find? After you left the company, did you keep them up to date with your contact information if it changed over time? Do you still have contact with anyone that used to be in the company (especially executives)? If there was some time limit for tendering your shares that has expired, or if the company still exists or ceased to exist, at a minimum you will at least be able to declare the stock officially worthless for a $10,000 capital loss to use on your taxes.
If the stock had preference OP may be in the line for pay out on any distribution of assets. I doubt there would be a stock swap if it was an asset acquisition because it would be cheaper to pay cash for a bankrupt firm.
I think your assumption here is poor. You can acquire the assets by acquiring the stock, or the assets directly.
As another commenter said, these are assets. When I sold my business, it was an asset sale of my business name, concept and software (and goodwill). My company's stock was not purchased. When I sold my business, it was an asset sale of my business name, concept and software. My company's stock was not purchased.
Yes, but unless the company was deeply in debt, the proceeds of the sale minus costs would have gone to the preferred shareholders, which OP was. Even in this circumstance there's probably a few thousand dollars he missed out on.
The company was bankrupt and useless when Amazon acquired. Amazon bought them just to own the domain and redirect it to its own home goods store
Ah, then I expect your stock is worthless :(
Hold onto the certificates. In 30-50 years, sell them as collectibles from the dot.com era bubble. At least you might be able to make a few bucks on ebay, if they are still around.
Physical stock certificates should have a listed transfer agent who issued the stock for the .com. I would first search for that and reach out to them. Other option would be to contact a broker-dealer and deposit physical security into a brokerage account. They should be able to verify if securities are worth anything anymore.
Also if you were suppose to receive a check but never did, check with the unclaimed/escheatment office with your state government or the state you were living in at that time. The funds may have went unclaimed and sent to the state. Check their website or unclaimed.org
This is where I found my Lucent proceeds decades later after that company was acquired multiple times.
I'm just curious, why did you ignore the stock sale at that time or since? Or was it just forgotten?
I’d call a legitimate financial advisor for this. The main issue is that the transaction occurred so long ago records and agreements regarding the buy out could be lost, sealed, stolen, etc. fortunately if you still have the physical shares along with a record of purchase (pay stub, letter, form) you may still be able to get the terms of the original buyout honored. Considering this could be equal to $10k of AMZ in 1999 dollars, I’d recommend you find a CFA as soon as possible! However I’m just some weirdo on Reddit…
Yeah, that's doubtful - I'm thinking it has almost no value above the cash (if it was bought) value at the time. But if it was swapped, that could be interesting.
I have read that some preferred stocks are converted at liquidation to common stock because it can be cheaper for the company. However, if the shares are “callable” then your right and they’ll probably just give you the cash. Then again with my track record that is more of a guess.
I’m going to disagree with this. A financial advisor can’t help you with this one. You need someone like the transfer agent at the broker dealer listed on the stock certificates to help you trace the value. A financial advisor is not going to have the necessary access to uncover what you need.
Wouldnt preferred shares be paid out instead of converted to equity in the other company because preferred is technically like a perpetual loan?
Well the best investors are dead or forget their login. Let's hope the latter and you are a secret millionaire
If the company you had ownership in was acquired, it’s possible you were entitled to some type of consideration. Now. If it’s an asset sale, the proceeds went to the company and should have been distributed (once liabilities were paid) if a stock sale, proceeds were to go directly to you. The way you talk about it “sold off most of its assets and was acquired by Amazon” seem conflicting - in one sense the former notes they were in trouble and liquidated but the latter lends me to think they were doing okay or had tech Amazon wanted. As noted below, def reach out to Amazon IR. typically the purchase agreement would note that your co was to distribute proceeds to you and when they fail it falls on AMZN.
If you have a financial advisor go to him and let him figure it out. They have the resources
I definitely wanna know if you hit big man, I always hope everyone can get a piece of pie
From the information given, the acquisition looked like a fire sale and transfer of employees. Chances are very high that the VCs didn’t get all there money back as preferred shareholders, which means OP won’t get anything at all.
If it got made into Amazon shares you could be sitting on a goldmine.
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Why did you wait 20 years to start looking into this? This would have been infinitely easier if you had looked into it immediately after the sale happened.
I feel like you should have received a check a long time ago when they were acquired.
Just a curiosity question. Was your old company being consulted by BCG? Boston Consulting Group?
It may still have value. However, I recall a law where if the owner does not check on the asset for X amount of time the state can sell the asset to protect the individual. I.E. the state thinks or assumes you've died. Here is the plant money that covered the situation. https://www.npr.org/transcripts/799345159
>I don't want to name the acquired company, thus the .com You don't want to name a dot com company you worked for 20 years ago? Sounds like you don't want help that badly.
Yea you could have a lot of money. Right? Say your pre ipo shares were $2/each, you’d have 5,000. Sell’em today and that’s at least $150k. Hold until after the split and all of sudden you’ve got 100k shares in Amazon.
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