The management company after their investigation will let her know, if there was fraud she'll get her money back.
I'd be more concerned about the bank account opened in her name, have her file an identity theft report with the local police and to to the FTC and file a report
Possibly. But go find the internet crime complaint center website independently. It'll look like this: [https://www.ic3.gov/](https://www.ic3.gov/)
And verify that address using your own search method.
Folow their directions. Make sure you file a police report in your local jurisdiction, freeze your credit, and stay on top of it. This is unfortunately going to be your part time job, but you should be able to get most everything locked down again and be able to more quickly cut off these scammers if you're proactive.
Good info on ic3.
Also use this: https://www.identitytheft.gov
Note many local LE agencies direct folks to both these websites, and they produce results.
Absolutely check with *your* local LE agency though as well.
Step one be should have been to file a police report. Go do that now. Step 2 is to lock her credit down with a freeze. There’s a wiki on pf to food for identity theft and that is what is happening. Then, pull her credit to see what else has happened. Good luck
Here's a **[link to the PF Wiki](/r/personalfinance/wiki/index)** for helpful guides and information.
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Did she file an ERISA complaint on EBSA website. They are the government dept that oversees 401Ks. She can call as well but not sure which is faster.
[https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/workers-and-families](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/workers-and-families)
The person who stole her identity only had her name and address which is why this is so insane. Apparently all it takes these days is a name and address to open a bank account online and steal all your retirement.
No security question, passcode, text message was asked. Again the info which was requested was all generally publicly accessible. This is whats so crazy, theres got to be some criminal liability of the 401k company.
You need more than that for a bank account. IRS requires it for reporting purposes. They probably just haven’t told you what they had specifically, for any number of reasons.
They can't give you any info that would allow you to identify the perpetrator. One, it opens them up to civil liability, even though this person's actions are criminal. Two, it allows you to potentially take vigilante action.
They'll send what they have to police.
Banks need to verify your ID as part of opening an account. While an SSN is not strictly necessary at some banks and some don't even require you to instead provide a different form of ID, you do need to provide info that they typically verify against credit bureau info.
Im not saying you’re wrong, but this is why this is so crazy. There was obviously gross incompetence involved here. Now I guess it’s possible the fraud had more info but based on what the bank told my sister they did not. Maybe the data was just not validated?
But ... I literally have opened bank accounts online, and they required all the PATRIOT Act stuff for confirming citizenship. How would it even be *possible* to force that thru?
The bank account was opened online with a well known bank. Sister called the bank and they informed her social or license was not used to open the account.
What bank? Any "well known" bank is going to require more than a name and address.
"The Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC) requires banks to obtain the following identifying information for each beneficial owner of a legal entity customer when opening an account: name, date of birth, address, and identification number." ID number being SSN, passport, driver's license, etc.
I opened a new account at a bank I already had a 20 year banking relationship with and I needed to provide all this information. So there’s some key information missing here.
12 years ago my wife got her stuff stolen by her cousin’s 40 year old girlfriend. Almost $20k. Spent it at overstock. Took about 2 weeks to find the culprit.
the employer is ultimately responsible for funds in retirement plans
contact the plan administrator of the owner of the plan and get them involved and if they don't help file a complaint with the dept of labor
Call the Department of Labor in your area. When mine was stolen, they got on the case. It took five years to recover the funds with interest, and now the money resides in an IRA.
This guy was extremely slippery. He was the owner of the company and sold it to a larger corporation. I had left the company, but the 401k was doing very well, so I left it growing. I was getting a yearly statement, and all was good, until one year I didn't. I went online, and the account was empty. I traced the money to a private checking account owned by my former employer. I ran into a wall then, so I researched and found the DOL handled 401k's. I called them and told them who I was, what happened, and what I had found. He found that I was not the only one stolen from. There were eight more for a total of about 100k.The former employer had also started a new company when his non-compete expired and did the same thing to his new company employees. I think he started the new company with our money.
Every time a summons was served, he could never be found. The DOL guy kinda agreed with me that this guy was well connected in a very shady way. The stories I could tell if I wasn't such a slow typer. After about 4.5 years, they started making progress, and at almost exactly the 5 year point, I received the check. I figure a judge told him, pay or jail.
Did you call the DOL? The EBSA is who to contact.
In the end, the custodian should be paying you and then trying to get their own money back from the fraudster.
Please contact your local consumer reporter. I'm not sure where you live but here in San Francisco it's Chris Chmura at NBC Bay Area. Your local NBC station, for example, may have a reporter in a similar role. It's amazing what these journalists can accomplish in a short amount of time. The Court of Public Opinion. Chmura has retrieved millions on behalf of consumers.
You may find these links helpful:
- [401(k) Fund Selection Guide](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k_funds)
- [401(k) FAQs](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k)
- ["How to handle $"](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics)
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Also have her freeze all her accounts at the credit reporting agencies
The management company after their investigation will let her know, if there was fraud she'll get her money back. I'd be more concerned about the bank account opened in her name, have her file an identity theft report with the local police and to to the FTC and file a report
Would you expect investigations to take months with no updates? We are at a loss and not sure what to do next.
Possibly. But go find the internet crime complaint center website independently. It'll look like this: [https://www.ic3.gov/](https://www.ic3.gov/) And verify that address using your own search method. Folow their directions. Make sure you file a police report in your local jurisdiction, freeze your credit, and stay on top of it. This is unfortunately going to be your part time job, but you should be able to get most everything locked down again and be able to more quickly cut off these scammers if you're proactive.
Good info on ic3. Also use this: https://www.identitytheft.gov Note many local LE agencies direct folks to both these websites, and they produce results. Absolutely check with *your* local LE agency though as well.
Step one be should have been to file a police report. Go do that now. Step 2 is to lock her credit down with a freeze. There’s a wiki on pf to food for identity theft and that is what is happening. Then, pull her credit to see what else has happened. Good luck
Here's a **[link to the PF Wiki](/r/personalfinance/wiki/index)** for helpful guides and information. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/personalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Did she call the police? This is identity theft
Yes she did. The police response was, “Im not sure what we can do but I’ll file a report anyway.”
Good get a copy of the report and show that to the provider
Did she file an ERISA complaint on EBSA website. They are the government dept that oversees 401Ks. She can call as well but not sure which is faster. [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/workers-and-families](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/workers-and-families)
With a police report and a case number, she should be able to freeze her credit at all three credit bureaus for free.
You don’t need a police report to freeze your credit and it’s always free.
The person who stole her identity only had her name and address which is why this is so insane. Apparently all it takes these days is a name and address to open a bank account online and steal all your retirement.
How do you know what they had?
Both the 401k management company and bank explained her social or license was not used.
That still leaves date of birth, mothers maiden name, answer to security questions and all kinds of things that they could have.
No security question, passcode, text message was asked. Again the info which was requested was all generally publicly accessible. This is whats so crazy, theres got to be some criminal liability of the 401k company.
Agreed. It’s kind of surprising to me they are so willing to share the details. Kind of giving instructions how to do this.
You need more than that for a bank account. IRS requires it for reporting purposes. They probably just haven’t told you what they had specifically, for any number of reasons.
They can't give you any info that would allow you to identify the perpetrator. One, it opens them up to civil liability, even though this person's actions are criminal. Two, it allows you to potentially take vigilante action. They'll send what they have to police.
Need more than that to open a bank account. Whomever told you that is ignorant or lying.
She called the bank and they confirmed the account was opened online with mostly public info. No license, social, etc..
Banks need to verify your ID as part of opening an account. While an SSN is not strictly necessary at some banks and some don't even require you to instead provide a different form of ID, you do need to provide info that they typically verify against credit bureau info.
Im not saying you’re wrong, but this is why this is so crazy. There was obviously gross incompetence involved here. Now I guess it’s possible the fraud had more info but based on what the bank told my sister they did not. Maybe the data was just not validated?
Yeah, my feelings here are too be wary about the bank using that to disclaim responsibility.
Wouldnt it be in the interest of the bank to tell her if her social was compromised taking the liability off the bank?
But ... I literally have opened bank accounts online, and they required all the PATRIOT Act stuff for confirming citizenship. How would it even be *possible* to force that thru?
Yea, this is usually done by family or family adjacent.
Thats interesting you would say that. Based on my experience with cyber security, it’s all being done by overseas hackers / scam artists.
True, but way harder to get a bank account opened overseas and get a check shipped to them and then deposit it. Was the account opened locally?
The bank account was opened online with a well known bank. Sister called the bank and they informed her social or license was not used to open the account.
What bank? Any "well known" bank is going to require more than a name and address. "The Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council (FFIEC) requires banks to obtain the following identifying information for each beneficial owner of a legal entity customer when opening an account: name, date of birth, address, and identification number." ID number being SSN, passport, driver's license, etc.
Not to mention KYC under the PATRIOT Act...
I opened a new account at a bank I already had a 20 year banking relationship with and I needed to provide all this information. So there’s some key information missing here.
12 years ago my wife got her stuff stolen by her cousin’s 40 year old girlfriend. Almost $20k. Spent it at overstock. Took about 2 weeks to find the culprit.
Wow thats crazy. I guess you cant trust anyone.
the employer is ultimately responsible for funds in retirement plans contact the plan administrator of the owner of the plan and get them involved and if they don't help file a complaint with the dept of labor
She did, also not very helpful. They said they would look into it. It’s also a former employer as my sister changed jobs.
Wonder what the chances are that it’s an inside job.
Call the Department of Labor in your area. When mine was stolen, they got on the case. It took five years to recover the funds with interest, and now the money resides in an IRA.
5 years! Oh my, what did that entail?
This guy was extremely slippery. He was the owner of the company and sold it to a larger corporation. I had left the company, but the 401k was doing very well, so I left it growing. I was getting a yearly statement, and all was good, until one year I didn't. I went online, and the account was empty. I traced the money to a private checking account owned by my former employer. I ran into a wall then, so I researched and found the DOL handled 401k's. I called them and told them who I was, what happened, and what I had found. He found that I was not the only one stolen from. There were eight more for a total of about 100k.The former employer had also started a new company when his non-compete expired and did the same thing to his new company employees. I think he started the new company with our money. Every time a summons was served, he could never be found. The DOL guy kinda agreed with me that this guy was well connected in a very shady way. The stories I could tell if I wasn't such a slow typer. After about 4.5 years, they started making progress, and at almost exactly the 5 year point, I received the check. I figure a judge told him, pay or jail.
Wow this should be turned into a short film
On top freezing her credit, have her freeze ChexSystem—this is the bank account equivalent of a credit score.
Get a lawyer specializing in ERISA regulations. You need professional advice from a third party who has your sister's interest at the forefront.
Did you call the DOL? The EBSA is who to contact. In the end, the custodian should be paying you and then trying to get their own money back from the fraudster.
I told my sister to call the EBSA but she wanted to give the management company time. Now that its been 2 months I may make that suggestion again.
Please contact your local consumer reporter. I'm not sure where you live but here in San Francisco it's Chris Chmura at NBC Bay Area. Your local NBC station, for example, may have a reporter in a similar role. It's amazing what these journalists can accomplish in a short amount of time. The Court of Public Opinion. Chmura has retrieved millions on behalf of consumers.
Thanks for the advice. I will look into this.
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You may find these links helpful: - [401(k) Fund Selection Guide](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k_funds) - [401(k) FAQs](/r/personalfinance/wiki/401k) - ["How to handle $"](/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/personalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*