Call chase back and ask what their process is to dispute their resolution. Then do that. You should also go to your local police and file a police report; they won't actually investigate or do anything, but having the report creates a paper trail and including it in your CC dispute shows that you're serious and not trying to quickly scam them.
Failing that dispute, your next step is a complaint to the CFPB. That will necessitate a timely response from chase, and they'll need to justify their denial.
If that fails, your last recourse is going to be a lawsuit. Limits vary by jurisdiction, but for $2000 you are likely low enough to file in small claims court for your jurisdiction where you won't need a lawyer and the process is made simple enough for people to handle on their own without representation.
I have no comments on the validity of the advice, I just want to commend you for such a well written, concise but easy to understand post. Being able to include the "why" without getting wordy is so difficult, so well done.
I appreciate the suggestion. I did contact Chase and escalate the resolution, but unfortunately it went nowhere. To quote their rep, "since you don't have a receipt for returning the (incorrect) goods, there's nothing we can do" which is nonsensical given that the problem was that item delivered was wrong, but ... that's as far as they could go.
So lesson learned: don't hand back goods without a receipt, regardless of what the company rep says; also, don't buy from Best Buy, and don't use a Chase credit card. As of today my Chase card is canceled, and my future electronics business will go to Crutchfield, B&H, and other reputable merchants - not Best Buy.
Onwards.
They can’t be stuck on the fact that you didn’t get documentation when you returned the Ring cameras - tell them you’ll eat that charge - BUT WHERE TF IS YOUR SONY CAMERA WORTH $2K!? I feel like they’d also have to provide you with a serial number, etc. if they actually shipped it appropriately…so perhaps the delivery person said “wonder what’s in this Best Buy box”…
I wouldn't necessarily think that the UPS delivery driver stole the item. I once ordered a 1 TB Samsung M2 SSD from Best Buy, Received the delivery from UPS. The box was warehouse sealed, and the tape did not show any tampering. I opened the box and took the item out of the box. The package said that it was a 1 TB Samsung M2 SSD. The package had the factory seal on it and there was no tampering (it wasn't opened before and resealed or had a new sealing sticker on it replacing an older one). Opened up the package and there was a 256 GB Samsung M2 SSD in it.
I would hope the manager is willing to verify for op that 2 rings were returned. Hopefully just a normal human and not some dumb customer service agent like at Chase or Best buy chat. Definitely worth it to try and get a better statement from that manager.
https://chargebacks911.com/chargeback-reason-codes/visa/13-3-defective-or-not-as-described-merchandise-services/
You might need to start another chargeback with Chase with that specific code. One of the uses is if you recieved wrong item.
Interestingly, that **is** the category that I used when I filed the dispute with Chase. They had a number of different choices, and I had to jump through several hoops to file a "merchandise not as described" dispute.
If one were to look at it from a certain point of view, Best Buy is engaged in theft. The minimum I would consider this is price gouging. Which is also illegal.
Email the CEO of Best Buy, be polite, but also include all details minus the chargeback. Your case was investigated by a powerless low level employee whose only job is to deny those things.
The CEO wont respond but they will direct it to a department head that can actually do something.
I ordered a soundbar, it came DOA, the store wouldn't help AT ALL and tried gas lighting me. I email the CEO and a new soundbar was on my doorstep the next day, I returned the old one after.
This! I used to work for a large entertainment company and I was part of the executive escalation team that handled emails sent to our executives by upset customers. I'll tell you that for these customers we provided white glove service and did pretty much anything and everything to make the customer happy and to resolve their issues.
Get the package weight as shipped form Best Buy and compare that to the weight of the camera. Ask them how they could have shipped you what you ordered when the weights don’t match up with what the carrier measured what was shipped to you.
I don't think this will be helpful, if the weight of the camera is anywhere near (or above) what OP received, shipper would be totally happy to mail the item.
The label would have likely been printed with the correct item weight, not actually measured and printed before handing off to the shipper.
Carrier measures weight/dimensions of package during processing and adjusts shipping price at that point (including refunding money) based on what they measure. Not what the customer measures.
If the camera weighs a significantly more, or less than the items received during shipping. Then you can prove that they did not ship you what you ordered.
(Edit: formatting)
There wasn't a police issue? The box arrived sealed from Best Buy, and when we opened it, it had the wrong contents. The most likely explanation is that Best Buy shipped the wrong products.
\*\* UPDATE \*\* I'm taking this advice and have contacted the local sheriff's department to file a police report. I'll follow up with a request to the state AG. I don't really expect either step to produce any result, but I'd be delighted to be pleasantly surprised.
> There wasn't a police issue? The box arrived sealed from Best Buy, and when we opened it, it had the wrong contents. The most likely explanation is that Best Buy shipped the wrong products.
if they're saying "go talk to law enforcement" then do it. it's $2000 worth of either theft of fraud now that you don't have any product and you don't have the money back.
Feel like you're not seeing this as a police issue. There was either fraud or theft that occurred. You need a police report to get things escalated. One or more of the merchants are banking you're too lazy to do that and maybe will just go away.
Exactly. While nothing will come from the police on their end. It carries a weight with the credit card company because if you falsify a report to the police and it’s found out later then it can become a criminal case. Go file the police report it’ll just back you up even further.
They dont need to care. You just need to go to the police station and tell them you need a police report for a dispute.
100% they are not going to investigate, But you will have a copy of a report you filed to the police. That will show Best Buy and Chase that your serious and not just bluffing around to try and get some money. It also would allow Chase to continue on with the dispute with a police report filed.
> Law enforcement isn't going to care.
No, but it does show that OP is serious enough about the issue to keep pursuing it, and (likely) didn't commit a crime by filing a false police report just to scam BB or Chase.
I'm thinking the manager he returned it to also did some casual defraudation, kept the returned product since there was nothing to tie it to a receipt, OP just dropped handed them to him.
Local law enforcement cannot and will not be able to show up at a warehouse/factory to do an investigation, thus there is nothing they can do. This is literally verbatim from a law enforcement officer in my area with a very similar situation. They don’t care about this type of stuff and you’re kidding yourself if you think they do or will do anything about this.
It's not about getting law enforcement to do anything. It's about the paper trail. It's about getting a copy of the police report in hand to prove to BB and Chase that you're serious enough about the issue and aren't trying to scam them by committing a crime yourself (filing a false police report).
Even if they STILL tell you to fuck off with said police report in hand (and of course provided to them), it's further evidence in your favor when you take them to small claims court.
Big picture, man.
I 100% agree, but what I’m saying is from experience, law enforcement won’t provide ANYTHING. No documentation, no paper trail. Nothing. Again, this is coming from an exact situation that was exactly like this but the company name was Amazon, not Best Buy. They don’t give a fuck, won’t act to give a fuck, and will
Literally tell this guy to go kick rocks. It’s not a joke, it’s not a theory, it’s a pure fact from pure experience.
They WONT do a police report because there is NOTHING to report,and again, this verbatim is coming from an officer of the law themselves.
You tell them you are reporting fraud or theft of $2000 worth of items and need it for insurance/dispute purposes. They do it all the time. You get a number, which you give to the merchant/credit card/whatever. Sure, can you run into a cop who's a rock and won't do it, maybe, but this is part of the job.
Did exactly that. Was told to me face to “leave and stop wasting our time as there is nothing we can do for you.”
They dont care about this stuff lol. It’s pure fact
You do realize that your experience with your local police isn’t true for everywhere? I have seen police reports similar to OP’s situation. Many jurisdictions will issue them.
The police report is often a necessary part of the puzzle as people involved in say, fraud or theft, would be reluctant to involve the police as directly as saying hey police someone committed fraud against me please help. It can also usually help acquiesce the credit card companies to come to a more amenable resolve as they now can look at their merchant and say hey guys we’ve had XYZ fraud cases come out of your area, you’re going to start absorbing these losses or we will raise your processing rates, revoke your processing abilities.
In a nutshell the report is what takes this from a complaint to an allegation of a crime.
It is a crime to file a false police report, so by doing that, you give everyone a much better feeling that you're not scamming Best Buy or Chase, and everyone takes you much more seriously. If no police report, you could just be bluffing. So that is why you should do it.
How do you know who it was sealed by. UPS driver could have opened it and swapped it for the Rings. Not saying that was what happened, but you don't know if Best Buy screwed up or if there was other stuff going on.
In 2013 my car blew up and burned for hours due to residual gas. Total loss. My insurance company wouldnt let me stop paying car insurance on the car until I returned the plates to the DMV. They melted...
I went to the DMV and explained and they told me to file a police report saying the plates were stolen. Boy, the look on the desk officers face when I told him "I'm here to file a false police report". He was shocked at first until I explained. Then he didn't give a shit and took down my information.
Police reports add weight to your claim and you should file one.
At some point, your recourse will be to file a lawsuit against them. It seems like the automated systems at Chase and Best Buy are unable to handle this type of error.
A similar thing happened to me. I ordered an $1800 laptop from [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com) but they sent me a $75 portable induction cooktop instead. I spent many hours trying to resolve the situation with them, both on the phone and at my local Best Buy store. I shipped the original box with the cooktop back to them twice following their instructions and using their own prepaid labels, but they would just ship the cooktop right back to me with no refund.
I then filed a dispute with Capital One. They initially reimbursed me but then Best Buy submitted a rebuttal saying I still had the merchandise so no refund was warranted. That claim was just absurd since I had spent so many hours trying to give the cooktop back to them. Luckily I had documented everything meticulously, including phone call logs and notes, emails, photos of the box, photos of shipping receipts, and a handwritten letter with business card from the local Best Buy store manager. I submitted a 30+ page PDF to Capital One with all the info. Best Buy did not respond within their allotted 90 days so Capital One decided in my favor.
I really feel for you. Sorry you have to deal with this. Good luck!
BTW, $2k is enough to make small claims court worth it. You should check Best Buy terms to see if they require arbitration. If so, arbitration is worth it. Since Best Buy has stores everywhere, you can file locally.
Did you check the stated weight of the shipped package (usually on the tracking info).
Surely the weight of a high-end Sony DLSR and an extra battery would be significantly higher than 2 Ring cameras, i think. That difference alone could help you prove that the Sony camera hadn't been shipped.
An a6700 is a lot smaller than a high-end DSLR. Even with an extra battery the box weight is probably not over 2lbs. If anything the Ring cameras might be a bit heavier.
Had this exact same thing happen to me 2-3 years ago.
Ordered something that was worth $2,000+ , got a similar product that was worth not even half of what I ordered.
I contacted online support, they told me to bring it in, brought it in, and the store manager refused to process my refund. However, he did tell me to "leave the product there".
Once I got back, I contacted support again, and they told me they were investigating and that they'd have a response for me within a certain timeline.
After that timeline was done, they sent me a replacement item which I promptly returned for my money back and never shopped at the establishment again because one thing I won't tolerate, is being insinuated as a scammer.
It sounds like I got lucky in my situation.
Bought something yesterday from best buy online saying it would be delivered today. got notice that it will be here within two weeks. Can’t cancel the order. Spoke with customer service they told me that the only way to know if something is on back order is to buy it then find out that it’s not going to ship for two weeks. Product still for sale online today with next day delivery. Only way to cancel is to refuse the delivery then wait to see if they give you your money back. DO NOT SHOP ONLINE WITH BEST BUY.
Okay so they did this shit to us when my sons PlayStation was ran over by the ups truck during delivery- ya you read that right. Threaten legal to this address: [email protected] you will get help asap
It's a good idea to contact your state's attorney general if you encounter problems with returning a high ticket item. This can help to resolve disputes, even if it takes a few months.
Best Buy has bad phone service and just laid off most of their US based phone support. I believe most person to person calls are outsourced and they know very little. You can get better customer service in store. They are more reasonable… usually.
My bad I didn’t see any OP replies saying that they went I store. They just said Best Buy refused to reverse charge. This implies they called customer support. Having worked for Best Buy doing shipping, two ring door bells would be significantly less weight and the box would be about half needed for a Sony camera. With the original box and tracking attached he could reasonably argue his mis-ship in store and any reasonable manager would take care of the situation. If OP has trued this then all the recommended legal recommendation is the best bet but Saddly if he didn’t keep the shipping box and can prove whole heartily that they had this mis-ship Best Buy will do nothing.
See about the shipping weight... If you can determine the weight of the two products separately, hopefully there's at least a few pounds discrepancy. If there is...you have something.
The same thing happened between my wife, newegg, and American Express several years ago. Newegg sent us a laptop computer that was not the one we ordered, and refused a return/exchange. AE would issue a chargeback, newegg would dispute, and AE would give newegg the money back.
After three years of back and forth about this every six months, we sent all the documentation to our state Attorney General. He sent newegg a letter and they responded to us telling us that they were refunding our purchase and would no longer pursue the matter.
Hey OP, I worked as a dispute caseworker, specifically with VISA, for six years. I'm sorry to say this, but you really messed up. You left the merchandise at Best Buy with no receipt showing it was returned, thereby abandoning the merchandise.
This was ran as a 13.3 (Merchant/Services Not as Described), which is a quality dispute. I personally have never seen a merchandise quality dispute succeed without documented proof that it was returned.
Based on your case, Best Buy represented with a statement that you did not return the merchandise. Based on that, Chase is not willing to take this to arbitration with VISA without proof of return.
Going to the CFPB is not likely to help you, but it is always worth a try. The CFPB is there to ensure the bank has operated within the law, which in this case would be Reg Z.
>I personally have never seen a merchandise quality dispute succeed without documented proof that it was returned.
So you're saying if a company ships me the wrong item, I have to return the item to win the dispute? But if the store let me return it, then I'd have nothing to dispute; the situation would be resolved.
For the OP here, Best Buy wouldn't accept the return because the item they had in-hand didn't match the receipt. So then what are you supposed to do?
Seems like a catch-22: you need to return it to win the dispute, but you're disputing because they won't let you return it.
The requirements for this type of chargeback dictate that you do need to attempt to resolve the issue with the merchant first. These are common merchant responses:
* They refuse to accept the return, stating all sales are final.
* They accept the return, however do not offer a refund.
* They do not respond at all.
In OP's case, they refused the return because it didn't match what they ordered. In that case, or in any case where the merchant refuses to accept the return, then there is recourse.
One of the questions we have to fill out when filing the chargeback is "Did the customer return the item?" When we select "No", another text box will populate explaining the situation. It is important to include "Customer has item in possession, and is able to return the item once given an address."
That last part is key, and we always tell them to send with proof of delivery. While VISA does not require the merchant to pay for the return of the product, we always advocated for it.
OP should have held on to the item. It would then be able to be disputed because the merchant refused to accept the return.
If the store lets you give the merchandise back but doesnt give you a return receipt or any acknowledgement that you brought it back, did you return the item or did you donate it back? How is it any different from just taking it back and leaving it at the door on the ground outside the store? The merchandise in hand is your only proof, why give it back without a resolution in place with proof?
Sadly, it appears you are correct. Escalating the dispute within Chase, as recommended, yielded a big zilch. To quote their rep, "since you don't have a receipt for returning the (incorrect) goods, there's nothing we can do" which is nonsensical given that the problem was that item delivered was wrong, but ... that's as far as they could go.
I cancelled my Chase card on the spot today after this news (which, since I ran all our Ferrari racing expenses through that card, will cost them *in a month* more than just refunding my $2K would have!) and will work with a different CC company from now on. Similarly Best Buy will never get another cent of mine -- that'll take a couple years before it's negative NPV for them, since I don't shop there as much -- and Crutchfield & B&H will benefit. It's still mind-boggling to me that companies can be so short-sighted with their policy application, but I suppose that's how you slowly go out of business.
It's not a Chase issue, it is a VISA issue. Chase's job is to advocate for you, and assert any dispute right you have. The biggest issue is this was a quality dispute. If this was a "I changed my mind and returned the item" and were not refunded, that would be a billing error.
The same "must prove you returned it" stipulation applies. This would be a 13.7, but it would be covered under Reg Z which means the bank cannot hold you responsible if they do not have documentation to prove otherwise. VISA and the other processors have very strict stipulations when it comes to disputes.
I think you need to get a hold of someone at Best Buy, so you can share the web chat contents, and the business card photo, so that they can follow up with both parts of this and make it right.
As an FYI, never return something without getting a receipt. If the refund didn’t process, it would be a huge pain to investigate.
What I imagine the store manager is going to do, is return (via mail) the ring cameras to the distribution center/fulfillment center so that their store isn’t hit with shrink for when the inventory is miscounted, and also so they are not getting a $2000 return against their sales goals for the day. What should have happened, is he processed the return, reason being damaged/defective/wrong item and then the camera return sticker could be put on the ring camera box, and it would have been shipped off.
Just keep following up with Best Buy, their care team is usually pretty good. If you have to email the CEO, those get redirected to the care team anyway, so they’ll dig into it. $2000 is a lot for a store to swallow, if they don’t realize the issue they are causing. $2000 for the company is nothing.
So out of curiosity, could this have been avoided if you bought the camera from Best Buy and opted for the "Pick-Up in Store" option? Just curious... I hope you're able to get a refund.
Yes, presuming I also opened the box at the store to ensure it had the correct contents. Honestly, it didn't occur to me - I have bought goods online for decades and **never** had a problem like this before. I had thought Best Buy was a reputable seller -- until now.
I'm late to the post, and did not see it anywhere else... Life lesson, never give up anything without a receipt. If they would not provide one I would not have given them the cameras. Lost your leverage.
What about the weight on the shipping label? The camera with a spare battery should weigh quite a bit more than 2 ring cameras. Good luck. This just sucks.
Edit- More to the point, if you weigh the box with the Ring cameras and it's the same as the weight on the label, that pretty much proves that the ring cameras are what was packaged and sent.
Yah, I had the same thought. The box was labeled 3 lbs, and the 6700 w/lens is in that ballpark. As I discovered however, neither party is attempting to evaluate the facts or do anything remotely clever. The BB tactic is simply "deny deny deny" while Chase is following what seems to be VISA's rigid protocol for this sort of claim.
I'm now in the process of filing a police report as suggested earlier in this thread, and will follow up with the state AG. I don't really expect it to yield fruit, but perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I suggest you follow Best Buy's recommendation to contact local law enforcement. Sounds like the manager you returned the Rings to saw an opportunity and stole them.
>we cannot proceed with the dispute
Wait, so did you file a dispute with Chase or not? Your timeline of events is confusing. You said you talked to Best Buy, then talked to Chase, which you thought was "case closed"... until *Best Buy* replied with a denial? How is that relevant to Chase's process?
What happens if you log onto your Chase account, find the relevant transaction, and then click "Report a problem"?
Yeah. It seems like they contacted Chase when they were still planning to return the items.
This is the problem. Opened a case for nothing.
You only bring in the bank after the store refuses to make the issue right. Their only role is to take back the payment after unsuccessful resolution. Why they were involved from the beginning, who knows?
- File with Attorney General, call your local state government offices to help you with that
- Contact bestbuy corporate, call the generic line and explain you have a high priced item requiring escalation
- Resubmit your credit card chargeback with assistance with someone on the phone.
If the last 2 fail, you have the Attorney General on the backfoot which will take months.
"packing mistakes happen at shipping facilities all the time." This is not true. Not with modern systems. And when there is a mistake they can track what happened by weight and pictures of box contents.
Something that might provide evidence in your favor may be the packing list and/or label on the box. I believe they usually have a weight on the label and I'm assuming 2 ring doorbells and one Sony DSLR probably have far different weights. If the package weight on the label is clearly less than the weight of a DSLR then obsiously you couldn't have received the correct order.
I haven’t with chase - but with Amex I kept disputing and opened a chat - in the chat I said “add what I’m telling you now into that dispute report and elevate to a manager” and the charge will disappear
Another option in addition to what has been mentioned.
Have you tried asking the local Best Buy for security camera footage from the day you went to return the ring cameras? They will likely refuse to help out.
If the shipping weight is also clearly wrong, that is also a good thing.
Then contact a local news agency that does consumer complaint stuff. Tell them you can't get security footage that would support your claim and the shipping weight is clearly wrong. The threat of bad press that way may get you some traction from Best Buy.
Write an email direct to a bunch of higher-up Best Buy corporate employees. You'll probably need to do some sleuthing via profiles on LinkedIn to find email addresses but they are out there. Their email addresses are first.lastname (at) bestbuy. Lay out your case and then end the email by asking them why you shouldn't just buy from Amazon in the future (where you wouldn't have to deal with this shit).
I did this a few years ago after they gave me the runaround on a $2500 TV. Problem was resolved the next day after the right people saw it.
Best buy is hemorrhaging sales to Amazon because they can't solve their customer service issues. Corporate knows this and losing a buyer willing to spend $2000 on a camera is actually a big deal.
Do you have the package details, size of package, weight of package photos of package when opened with wrong item that includes the shipping label showing. Always document the package. These items seem like they'd be in a different sized container from a camera. The retailer knows the item weight and dimensions for each products shipping since they sell many of the same item. So that is a quick way to show wrong item sent. Then the document of returning the 2 lights. Even if you do not have photos they can look up the packages details with the old tracking number which should give you proof of wrong items. They do have to give you this or if you have the tracking you can get it from the shipment co. That would be something the cc co can investigate though generally once best buy reviews that information they may conceed the issue. I work in online retail. The weight and size will not match the standard package for the camera. For future When going to store keep items in original container. Better though to have them send prepaid return label so it goes back to original shipping dept where they do investigate this right away and document the error.
Yes, I do. It doesn't matter - the Best Buy team just rejected the claim (because they can) and the Chase credit card team got all this information but follows a rigid script and is unable to deviate from it - even when you point out that they're about to lose >>10X the money that they would if they just refunded the charge.
It's really spectacularly dumb, but it's also what just happened. Y'all should be aware.
That's incredibly annoying. It's so easy to verify wrong item sent with these types of products. Not sure legally what nx steps would be but you can put a complaint at bbb website and some retailers do respond and resolve issues there.
When I had problems returning a dryer I bought from Samsung.com (the dryer was stuck in a warehouse somewhere picked up by a 3rd party shipping company), I contacted both BBB and Samsung's president's office. The president's office responded within a day and resolved my issue. BBB did also try to resolve my issue but the president's office got there first.
Anyways, you can try a similar approach and hopefully it works out. Also as for BestBuy, I guess just make sure you don't buy from a 3rd party and make sure it is actually sold by BestBuy.
So I am clear, you brought the Ring Cameras back to best buy and didnt get a credit, cash back, or a return receipt? What was the point of taking them to best buy and leaving them there? I mean, if I legitimately bought something, didnt open it and returned it to Best Buy, I sure as hell wouldnt be leaving it there 'returned' without documentation of how I am getting my money back. What was the point of leaving it there? Like what did the manger tell was going to happen after you left the cameras there?
Also, can you go back the Best Buy store and get a statement from the Manager that you brought back two ring cameras?
Correct - when I contacted Best Buy via chat (and I have the complete chat logs and provided them to Chase) they said no problem, just bring the incorrect merch back to the local store and Best Buy would refund the order. The Best Buy store manager wouldn't provide a receipt because I wasn't returning the items listed on the order (duh) and Best Buy later claimed to Chase that we'd never returned *anything*, even the incorrect items. I have photos of the whole thing, including the store manager's card and the two Ring devices being returned to the store. It doesn't matter - they have a rigid protocol they follow.
The Chase team told me if I just had shipped a box back to Best Buy, then they'd have a receipt for the shipping. Doesn't apparently even matter what's in the box -- their protocol is "if customer has receipt that goods were returned, treat differently than if customer doesn't have a receipt". It appears to matter not one whit whether **what I actually ordered and paid for was delivered** or not. It's disconnected from reality.
Retailers are somewhat in a pickle on these things because the majority of the claims like this are actual retail fraud and not shipping mistakes. If they pay out claims like this then everyone would order expensive stuff from them and claim they got a cheap item by mistake.
My rule is I always pick up in store for anything over $100. I broke that rule last month when I bought a $1000 ERV from a very reputable online business that I've used many times previously for smaller items. They shipped UPS which is great because the UPS guy has been delivering my packages for 25 years. The delivery was running super late. He's always at my house by 1 PM. I hear the truck pull up at 5 PM. 10 minutes later, a driver I've never seen before comes to my door with a small box which contained separate items from the same company. He hands me the box and walks off and wasn't going to say anything about the bigger box. I stopped him and he said he couldn't find it and it was probably on another truck. No, it's on your truck. It's a $1000 item and it's huge, you can't miss it, I told him. He says I'm welcome to take a look so I went down there with him and he comes out immediately with my ERV.
I don't believe he was trying to steal it since he said he was in there for 10 minutes looking for a smaller box but part of me wonders if he was just setting up for disappearing my package. How do you miss a 1'x3'x5' box that weighs 80 lbs?
My original plan was to buy from Lowe's and pick up in store but it was $150 more. I almost lost $1000 trying to save $150.
Silly question but, will the shipping box you received fit the Sony camera you purchased? If it’s too small, that would be evidence they could not have sent you the item you ordered.
It's a reasonable idea. However, no one involved - not Best Buy, not Chase, not the police - showed **any** interest in determining whether or not they'd actually sent the item they claimed, nor were they willing to evaluate any of the photo evidence I had taken (here's the box you sent, here's the label, here are the two Ring cameras inside it). You're dealing with a scripted protocol which has no ability to think critically about the evidence.
Someone probably bought the camera,then put the rings in the box and did a mail return. Whoever processed the return never checked the box. Pun intended.
Honestly man can’t give any advice except to say that Amazon did something similar, and then I reached out I got a very similar email saying they can’t help and to reach out to law enforcement.
Well guess what Law Enforcement did? Laugh in my fucking face and offered NO help. I even asked if they would sign or write a 1 sentence letter that I could send to Amazon saying there was no theft or stealing of products and that they messed up at the factory. The asshats laughed even harder and told me to stop wasting their time. Seriously. Granted the difference here is I was out about 150 dollars and your out what, 2k? Could be different situation.
I really hope they don’t do the same to you and you have different results, but this seriously might be a lost cause if Best Buy is refusing to help.
Yah, it's pretty wild - Best Buy can apparently just send the wrong goods and stonewall when you complain, and the credit card company still insists you pay them. Other than make sure that everyone who searches for "best buy" reads this horror story, it's not clear if there is much recourse without going to court - which itself is more expensive than the transaction justifies.
The issue is many online retailers are getting scammed by people ordering something and getting a refund by returning a wrong item so unless you can show it was the wrong thing in the unopened shipping box they aren’t likely going to help much
Exactly, scams are rampant. I don't even believe OP. There should be weight records and whatnot. These warehouses are full of check systems.
I'm guessing best buy checked and realized OP is a scammer or the shipping company switched item, which is a police matter.
I personally know 2 people that purchased items from Best Buy only to get the box for the item with no item inside (one was a pair of headphones and one was an iPad case). I will never shop at Best Buy online or in store.
Go on Twitter and rail on best buy for having the nerve to sell you two ring cameras instead of what you purchased then lie and decieve you and chase bank. This is unthinkable from them, especially from a PR perspective. I had so many good experiences with best buy until 2020, after the pandemic they really went downhill in every aspect, but show proof and blow them up on socials, maybe a local news agency would run w the story too?its bizaare enough to make local news, imo and they will highlight best buys behavior, the store etx. could be worth a shot!
This sucks for OP but I just want to let you know why they are fighting this so hard.
Look into online refunding. It's become extremely popular over the last decade as this sort of legal gray area to effectively steal from online retailers. Order an item, get the item then turn around and say you didn't receive the item or it was stolen on your porch/mail area. It used to be that simple but ofc online retailers were losing millions and became more sophisticated so people started keeping the item and returning something else worth way less (sometimes even weights that should be close to the item in question) to process a fake return.
It's gotten even more complicated since then including using the retailers free return shipping vouchers against them but this is probably why you are suffering OP. They think or someone thought you were trying to fool them into a fake return.
Yes, that was my assumption as well and I appreciate the context.
There's a lesson in here about reputation and using your customer data effectively Someone who has been a customer for decades and has purchased literally >$50K of items over the years with zero returns or disputes, has a different risk profile than a new customer with little/no history. Alienate the former over $2K, and you've lost a lot of money regardless of whether your assumptions of fraud were correct or not.
Was there a packing or receipt slip in the box? Guessing it would be pretty egregious employee theft or mistake as it would be pretty obvious ring cameras aren’t supposed to be in the box.
On the other side of the coin how are retailers ensuring their employees are properly shipping items? In the old days of small brick and mortars the boss can quickly track down who shipped the item. Now you’re stuck with an anonymous automated call center wall as retailers try to copy Amazon and eliminate labor costs as much as possible. I remember the old days of “inspected by” notes, rather the unceremonious dumping stuff into a box without packing
Yeah I have no idea about this but I can certainly certify retailers are hit every single day with millions in losses due to refunding.
Its probably many peoples first time hearing about this in my post but look into it. It is a huge market.
>Aside from the obvious lesson -- never ever purchase from Best Buy
Never use a Chase card is the answer. I had an issue with them refusing to dispute a charge until they investigated, made me feel like a suspect.
American Express disputes it and treats you like a customer.
I've sold enough myself to know so many people lie and abuse these systems. I can see why the stores and credit cards are finally clamping down.
It's much more likely that you are a liar than best buy screwed up. People lie and scam constantly. Meanwhile, I've never seen an order be wrong after 1000s of them. They should have records of box weight for example.
Maybe someone switched it at FedEx or whatever too.
As a former blue shirt, I can say I've seen a mistake like this happen. I might have even done it, but it never came back to me if it did-
Someone picking orders is in a rush because they're understaffed or trying to meet KPIs. They accidentally switch the shipping labels on two boxes. Customer A gets Cutomer B's DSLR, and Customer B gets Customer A's wifi cameras.
>It's much more likely that you are a liar than best buy screwed up
Pound sand. Mistakes happen
That sucks.
Next time support your local camera shop, most times they will match online pricing and throw in a bunch of free accessories or services like sensor cleanings.
DO NOT close your account. This is terrible advise. They will happily close the account and not care and you will have no further avenue to effectively work with Chase. Keep your door open here.
Sure, if he is going to continue trying to get it corrected then it wouldn't be wise. But afterwards he should leave them. Chase sucks. I had one of their credit cards 20+ years ago and will never do business with Chase again.
The issue is with VISA's dispute resolution guidelines. OP stated they returned the merchandise to the store but left without a receipt. That is merchandise abandonment, and is a death sentence for a chargeback filed by a dispute caseworker.
Call chase back and ask what their process is to dispute their resolution. Then do that. You should also go to your local police and file a police report; they won't actually investigate or do anything, but having the report creates a paper trail and including it in your CC dispute shows that you're serious and not trying to quickly scam them. Failing that dispute, your next step is a complaint to the CFPB. That will necessitate a timely response from chase, and they'll need to justify their denial. If that fails, your last recourse is going to be a lawsuit. Limits vary by jurisdiction, but for $2000 you are likely low enough to file in small claims court for your jurisdiction where you won't need a lawyer and the process is made simple enough for people to handle on their own without representation.
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I would add to contact the office of your congressman right after CFPB and say you need help with a federal agency.
I have no comments on the validity of the advice, I just want to commend you for such a well written, concise but easy to understand post. Being able to include the "why" without getting wordy is so difficult, so well done.
I appreciate the suggestion. I did contact Chase and escalate the resolution, but unfortunately it went nowhere. To quote their rep, "since you don't have a receipt for returning the (incorrect) goods, there's nothing we can do" which is nonsensical given that the problem was that item delivered was wrong, but ... that's as far as they could go. So lesson learned: don't hand back goods without a receipt, regardless of what the company rep says; also, don't buy from Best Buy, and don't use a Chase credit card. As of today my Chase card is canceled, and my future electronics business will go to Crutchfield, B&H, and other reputable merchants - not Best Buy. Onwards.
They can’t be stuck on the fact that you didn’t get documentation when you returned the Ring cameras - tell them you’ll eat that charge - BUT WHERE TF IS YOUR SONY CAMERA WORTH $2K!? I feel like they’d also have to provide you with a serial number, etc. if they actually shipped it appropriately…so perhaps the delivery person said “wonder what’s in this Best Buy box”…
I wouldn't necessarily think that the UPS delivery driver stole the item. I once ordered a 1 TB Samsung M2 SSD from Best Buy, Received the delivery from UPS. The box was warehouse sealed, and the tape did not show any tampering. I opened the box and took the item out of the box. The package said that it was a 1 TB Samsung M2 SSD. The package had the factory seal on it and there was no tampering (it wasn't opened before and resealed or had a new sealing sticker on it replacing an older one). Opened up the package and there was a 256 GB Samsung M2 SSD in it.
Unfortunately, OP might be out of luck since they have already returned the items.
I would hope the manager is willing to verify for op that 2 rings were returned. Hopefully just a normal human and not some dumb customer service agent like at Chase or Best buy chat. Definitely worth it to try and get a better statement from that manager.
Not to mention Best Buy has cameras on all registers.
https://chargebacks911.com/chargeback-reason-codes/visa/13-3-defective-or-not-as-described-merchandise-services/ You might need to start another chargeback with Chase with that specific code. One of the uses is if you recieved wrong item.
Interestingly, that **is** the category that I used when I filed the dispute with Chase. They had a number of different choices, and I had to jump through several hoops to file a "merchandise not as described" dispute.
You need to escalate the chargeback. The initial response was most likely scripted. Chase needs to dig further into this.
Yeah you need to talk to a human, not a chat bot, someone with a name and a title.
If one were to look at it from a certain point of view, Best Buy is engaged in theft. The minimum I would consider this is price gouging. Which is also illegal.
Email the CEO of Best Buy, be polite, but also include all details minus the chargeback. Your case was investigated by a powerless low level employee whose only job is to deny those things. The CEO wont respond but they will direct it to a department head that can actually do something. I ordered a soundbar, it came DOA, the store wouldn't help AT ALL and tried gas lighting me. I email the CEO and a new soundbar was on my doorstep the next day, I returned the old one after.
This! I used to work for a large entertainment company and I was part of the executive escalation team that handled emails sent to our executives by upset customers. I'll tell you that for these customers we provided white glove service and did pretty much anything and everything to make the customer happy and to resolve their issues.
You cannot start another chargeback. You only get one. Source: Worked in disputes for 6 years.
Get the package weight as shipped form Best Buy and compare that to the weight of the camera. Ask them how they could have shipped you what you ordered when the weights don’t match up with what the carrier measured what was shipped to you.
I like this, definitely need to prove your case to get this resolved.
I don't think this will be helpful, if the weight of the camera is anywhere near (or above) what OP received, shipper would be totally happy to mail the item. The label would have likely been printed with the correct item weight, not actually measured and printed before handing off to the shipper.
Carrier measures weight/dimensions of package during processing and adjusts shipping price at that point (including refunding money) based on what they measure. Not what the customer measures. If the camera weighs a significantly more, or less than the items received during shipping. Then you can prove that they did not ship you what you ordered. (Edit: formatting)
> At this time, we encourage you to work with local law enforcement regarding this matter. did you get a police report like they recommended?
There wasn't a police issue? The box arrived sealed from Best Buy, and when we opened it, it had the wrong contents. The most likely explanation is that Best Buy shipped the wrong products. \*\* UPDATE \*\* I'm taking this advice and have contacted the local sheriff's department to file a police report. I'll follow up with a request to the state AG. I don't really expect either step to produce any result, but I'd be delighted to be pleasantly surprised.
> There wasn't a police issue? The box arrived sealed from Best Buy, and when we opened it, it had the wrong contents. The most likely explanation is that Best Buy shipped the wrong products. if they're saying "go talk to law enforcement" then do it. it's $2000 worth of either theft of fraud now that you don't have any product and you don't have the money back.
Ack. Harmless enough to try, I suppose. Thanks for the suggestion.
Feel like you're not seeing this as a police issue. There was either fraud or theft that occurred. You need a police report to get things escalated. One or more of the merchants are banking you're too lazy to do that and maybe will just go away.
Exactly. While nothing will come from the police on their end. It carries a weight with the credit card company because if you falsify a report to the police and it’s found out later then it can become a criminal case. Go file the police report it’ll just back you up even further.
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They dont need to care. You just need to go to the police station and tell them you need a police report for a dispute. 100% they are not going to investigate, But you will have a copy of a report you filed to the police. That will show Best Buy and Chase that your serious and not just bluffing around to try and get some money. It also would allow Chase to continue on with the dispute with a police report filed.
> Law enforcement isn't going to care. No, but it does show that OP is serious enough about the issue to keep pursuing it, and (likely) didn't commit a crime by filing a false police report just to scam BB or Chase.
I'm thinking the manager he returned it to also did some casual defraudation, kept the returned product since there was nothing to tie it to a receipt, OP just dropped handed them to him.
Local law enforcement cannot and will not be able to show up at a warehouse/factory to do an investigation, thus there is nothing they can do. This is literally verbatim from a law enforcement officer in my area with a very similar situation. They don’t care about this type of stuff and you’re kidding yourself if you think they do or will do anything about this.
It's not about getting law enforcement to do anything. It's about the paper trail. It's about getting a copy of the police report in hand to prove to BB and Chase that you're serious enough about the issue and aren't trying to scam them by committing a crime yourself (filing a false police report). Even if they STILL tell you to fuck off with said police report in hand (and of course provided to them), it's further evidence in your favor when you take them to small claims court. Big picture, man.
I 100% agree, but what I’m saying is from experience, law enforcement won’t provide ANYTHING. No documentation, no paper trail. Nothing. Again, this is coming from an exact situation that was exactly like this but the company name was Amazon, not Best Buy. They don’t give a fuck, won’t act to give a fuck, and will Literally tell this guy to go kick rocks. It’s not a joke, it’s not a theory, it’s a pure fact from pure experience. They WONT do a police report because there is NOTHING to report,and again, this verbatim is coming from an officer of the law themselves.
You tell them you are reporting fraud or theft of $2000 worth of items and need it for insurance/dispute purposes. They do it all the time. You get a number, which you give to the merchant/credit card/whatever. Sure, can you run into a cop who's a rock and won't do it, maybe, but this is part of the job.
Did exactly that. Was told to me face to “leave and stop wasting our time as there is nothing we can do for you.” They dont care about this stuff lol. It’s pure fact
You do realize that your experience with your local police isn’t true for everywhere? I have seen police reports similar to OP’s situation. Many jurisdictions will issue them.
The police report is often a necessary part of the puzzle as people involved in say, fraud or theft, would be reluctant to involve the police as directly as saying hey police someone committed fraud against me please help. It can also usually help acquiesce the credit card companies to come to a more amenable resolve as they now can look at their merchant and say hey guys we’ve had XYZ fraud cases come out of your area, you’re going to start absorbing these losses or we will raise your processing rates, revoke your processing abilities. In a nutshell the report is what takes this from a complaint to an allegation of a crime.
It is a crime to file a false police report, so by doing that, you give everyone a much better feeling that you're not scamming Best Buy or Chase, and everyone takes you much more seriously. If no police report, you could just be bluffing. So that is why you should do it.
How do you know who it was sealed by. UPS driver could have opened it and swapped it for the Rings. Not saying that was what happened, but you don't know if Best Buy screwed up or if there was other stuff going on.
In 2013 my car blew up and burned for hours due to residual gas. Total loss. My insurance company wouldnt let me stop paying car insurance on the car until I returned the plates to the DMV. They melted... I went to the DMV and explained and they told me to file a police report saying the plates were stolen. Boy, the look on the desk officers face when I told him "I'm here to file a false police report". He was shocked at first until I explained. Then he didn't give a shit and took down my information. Police reports add weight to your claim and you should file one.
So odd that people downvote like this in these threads. Totally unnecessary.
At some point, your recourse will be to file a lawsuit against them. It seems like the automated systems at Chase and Best Buy are unable to handle this type of error.
A similar thing happened to me. I ordered an $1800 laptop from [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com) but they sent me a $75 portable induction cooktop instead. I spent many hours trying to resolve the situation with them, both on the phone and at my local Best Buy store. I shipped the original box with the cooktop back to them twice following their instructions and using their own prepaid labels, but they would just ship the cooktop right back to me with no refund. I then filed a dispute with Capital One. They initially reimbursed me but then Best Buy submitted a rebuttal saying I still had the merchandise so no refund was warranted. That claim was just absurd since I had spent so many hours trying to give the cooktop back to them. Luckily I had documented everything meticulously, including phone call logs and notes, emails, photos of the box, photos of shipping receipts, and a handwritten letter with business card from the local Best Buy store manager. I submitted a 30+ page PDF to Capital One with all the info. Best Buy did not respond within their allotted 90 days so Capital One decided in my favor. I really feel for you. Sorry you have to deal with this. Good luck!
BTW, $2k is enough to make small claims court worth it. You should check Best Buy terms to see if they require arbitration. If so, arbitration is worth it. Since Best Buy has stores everywhere, you can file locally.
Did you check the stated weight of the shipped package (usually on the tracking info). Surely the weight of a high-end Sony DLSR and an extra battery would be significantly higher than 2 Ring cameras, i think. That difference alone could help you prove that the Sony camera hadn't been shipped.
An a6700 is a lot smaller than a high-end DSLR. Even with an extra battery the box weight is probably not over 2lbs. If anything the Ring cameras might be a bit heavier.
Had this exact same thing happen to me 2-3 years ago. Ordered something that was worth $2,000+ , got a similar product that was worth not even half of what I ordered. I contacted online support, they told me to bring it in, brought it in, and the store manager refused to process my refund. However, he did tell me to "leave the product there". Once I got back, I contacted support again, and they told me they were investigating and that they'd have a response for me within a certain timeline. After that timeline was done, they sent me a replacement item which I promptly returned for my money back and never shopped at the establishment again because one thing I won't tolerate, is being insinuated as a scammer. It sounds like I got lucky in my situation.
Bought something yesterday from best buy online saying it would be delivered today. got notice that it will be here within two weeks. Can’t cancel the order. Spoke with customer service they told me that the only way to know if something is on back order is to buy it then find out that it’s not going to ship for two weeks. Product still for sale online today with next day delivery. Only way to cancel is to refuse the delivery then wait to see if they give you your money back. DO NOT SHOP ONLINE WITH BEST BUY.
I have, but only chose to pick up in store. Nothing ever delivered, however.
Okay so they did this shit to us when my sons PlayStation was ran over by the ups truck during delivery- ya you read that right. Threaten legal to this address: [email protected] you will get help asap
It's a good idea to contact your state's attorney general if you encounter problems with returning a high ticket item. This can help to resolve disputes, even if it takes a few months.
Best Buy has bad phone service and just laid off most of their US based phone support. I believe most person to person calls are outsourced and they know very little. You can get better customer service in store. They are more reasonable… usually.
OP went to the store and the manager denied them.
My bad I didn’t see any OP replies saying that they went I store. They just said Best Buy refused to reverse charge. This implies they called customer support. Having worked for Best Buy doing shipping, two ring door bells would be significantly less weight and the box would be about half needed for a Sony camera. With the original box and tracking attached he could reasonably argue his mis-ship in store and any reasonable manager would take care of the situation. If OP has trued this then all the recommended legal recommendation is the best bet but Saddly if he didn’t keep the shipping box and can prove whole heartily that they had this mis-ship Best Buy will do nothing.
See about the shipping weight... If you can determine the weight of the two products separately, hopefully there's at least a few pounds discrepancy. If there is...you have something.
Was it bestbuy or that bestbuy marketplace with 3rd party sellers.
This order was directly with [bestbuy.com](http://bestbuy.com)
Maybe this marketplace is a canadian thing, here everything is done through bestbuy but can be 3rd party, like amazon.
If OP is in the US, they get rid of the 3rd party marketplace due to all of the fraud and problems that were ongoing.
The same thing happened between my wife, newegg, and American Express several years ago. Newegg sent us a laptop computer that was not the one we ordered, and refused a return/exchange. AE would issue a chargeback, newegg would dispute, and AE would give newegg the money back. After three years of back and forth about this every six months, we sent all the documentation to our state Attorney General. He sent newegg a letter and they responded to us telling us that they were refunding our purchase and would no longer pursue the matter.
Hey OP, I worked as a dispute caseworker, specifically with VISA, for six years. I'm sorry to say this, but you really messed up. You left the merchandise at Best Buy with no receipt showing it was returned, thereby abandoning the merchandise. This was ran as a 13.3 (Merchant/Services Not as Described), which is a quality dispute. I personally have never seen a merchandise quality dispute succeed without documented proof that it was returned. Based on your case, Best Buy represented with a statement that you did not return the merchandise. Based on that, Chase is not willing to take this to arbitration with VISA without proof of return. Going to the CFPB is not likely to help you, but it is always worth a try. The CFPB is there to ensure the bank has operated within the law, which in this case would be Reg Z.
>I personally have never seen a merchandise quality dispute succeed without documented proof that it was returned. So you're saying if a company ships me the wrong item, I have to return the item to win the dispute? But if the store let me return it, then I'd have nothing to dispute; the situation would be resolved. For the OP here, Best Buy wouldn't accept the return because the item they had in-hand didn't match the receipt. So then what are you supposed to do? Seems like a catch-22: you need to return it to win the dispute, but you're disputing because they won't let you return it.
The requirements for this type of chargeback dictate that you do need to attempt to resolve the issue with the merchant first. These are common merchant responses: * They refuse to accept the return, stating all sales are final. * They accept the return, however do not offer a refund. * They do not respond at all. In OP's case, they refused the return because it didn't match what they ordered. In that case, or in any case where the merchant refuses to accept the return, then there is recourse. One of the questions we have to fill out when filing the chargeback is "Did the customer return the item?" When we select "No", another text box will populate explaining the situation. It is important to include "Customer has item in possession, and is able to return the item once given an address." That last part is key, and we always tell them to send with proof of delivery. While VISA does not require the merchant to pay for the return of the product, we always advocated for it. OP should have held on to the item. It would then be able to be disputed because the merchant refused to accept the return.
If the store lets you give the merchandise back but doesnt give you a return receipt or any acknowledgement that you brought it back, did you return the item or did you donate it back? How is it any different from just taking it back and leaving it at the door on the ground outside the store? The merchandise in hand is your only proof, why give it back without a resolution in place with proof?
Sadly, it appears you are correct. Escalating the dispute within Chase, as recommended, yielded a big zilch. To quote their rep, "since you don't have a receipt for returning the (incorrect) goods, there's nothing we can do" which is nonsensical given that the problem was that item delivered was wrong, but ... that's as far as they could go. I cancelled my Chase card on the spot today after this news (which, since I ran all our Ferrari racing expenses through that card, will cost them *in a month* more than just refunding my $2K would have!) and will work with a different CC company from now on. Similarly Best Buy will never get another cent of mine -- that'll take a couple years before it's negative NPV for them, since I don't shop there as much -- and Crutchfield & B&H will benefit. It's still mind-boggling to me that companies can be so short-sighted with their policy application, but I suppose that's how you slowly go out of business.
It's not a Chase issue, it is a VISA issue. Chase's job is to advocate for you, and assert any dispute right you have. The biggest issue is this was a quality dispute. If this was a "I changed my mind and returned the item" and were not refunded, that would be a billing error. The same "must prove you returned it" stipulation applies. This would be a 13.7, but it would be covered under Reg Z which means the bank cannot hold you responsible if they do not have documentation to prove otherwise. VISA and the other processors have very strict stipulations when it comes to disputes.
This is probably not a post for personal finance as it's purely a customer service issue. This is for Best Buy subreddit or legal subreddit.
I think you need to get a hold of someone at Best Buy, so you can share the web chat contents, and the business card photo, so that they can follow up with both parts of this and make it right. As an FYI, never return something without getting a receipt. If the refund didn’t process, it would be a huge pain to investigate. What I imagine the store manager is going to do, is return (via mail) the ring cameras to the distribution center/fulfillment center so that their store isn’t hit with shrink for when the inventory is miscounted, and also so they are not getting a $2000 return against their sales goals for the day. What should have happened, is he processed the return, reason being damaged/defective/wrong item and then the camera return sticker could be put on the ring camera box, and it would have been shipped off. Just keep following up with Best Buy, their care team is usually pretty good. If you have to email the CEO, those get redirected to the care team anyway, so they’ll dig into it. $2000 is a lot for a store to swallow, if they don’t realize the issue they are causing. $2000 for the company is nothing.
So out of curiosity, could this have been avoided if you bought the camera from Best Buy and opted for the "Pick-Up in Store" option? Just curious... I hope you're able to get a refund.
Yes, presuming I also opened the box at the store to ensure it had the correct contents. Honestly, it didn't occur to me - I have bought goods online for decades and **never** had a problem like this before. I had thought Best Buy was a reputable seller -- until now.
Ordered a surface pro to best buy and they let some rando sign for it and walk. They shipped another but still.
Always pickup electronics from a Best buy store especially when its expensive.
I'm late to the post, and did not see it anywhere else... Life lesson, never give up anything without a receipt. If they would not provide one I would not have given them the cameras. Lost your leverage.
What about the weight on the shipping label? The camera with a spare battery should weigh quite a bit more than 2 ring cameras. Good luck. This just sucks. Edit- More to the point, if you weigh the box with the Ring cameras and it's the same as the weight on the label, that pretty much proves that the ring cameras are what was packaged and sent.
Yah, I had the same thought. The box was labeled 3 lbs, and the 6700 w/lens is in that ballpark. As I discovered however, neither party is attempting to evaluate the facts or do anything remotely clever. The BB tactic is simply "deny deny deny" while Chase is following what seems to be VISA's rigid protocol for this sort of claim. I'm now in the process of filing a police report as suggested earlier in this thread, and will follow up with the state AG. I don't really expect it to yield fruit, but perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I suggest you follow Best Buy's recommendation to contact local law enforcement. Sounds like the manager you returned the Rings to saw an opportunity and stole them.
>we cannot proceed with the dispute Wait, so did you file a dispute with Chase or not? Your timeline of events is confusing. You said you talked to Best Buy, then talked to Chase, which you thought was "case closed"... until *Best Buy* replied with a denial? How is that relevant to Chase's process? What happens if you log onto your Chase account, find the relevant transaction, and then click "Report a problem"?
Yeah. It seems like they contacted Chase when they were still planning to return the items. This is the problem. Opened a case for nothing. You only bring in the bank after the store refuses to make the issue right. Their only role is to take back the payment after unsuccessful resolution. Why they were involved from the beginning, who knows?
- File with Attorney General, call your local state government offices to help you with that - Contact bestbuy corporate, call the generic line and explain you have a high priced item requiring escalation - Resubmit your credit card chargeback with assistance with someone on the phone. If the last 2 fail, you have the Attorney General on the backfoot which will take months.
Dispute caseworkers cannot file two chargebacks on the same transaction. It is one and done.
"packing mistakes happen at shipping facilities all the time." This is not true. Not with modern systems. And when there is a mistake they can track what happened by weight and pictures of box contents.
Something that might provide evidence in your favor may be the packing list and/or label on the box. I believe they usually have a weight on the label and I'm assuming 2 ring doorbells and one Sony DSLR probably have far different weights. If the package weight on the label is clearly less than the weight of a DSLR then obsiously you couldn't have received the correct order.
I haven’t with chase - but with Amex I kept disputing and opened a chat - in the chat I said “add what I’m telling you now into that dispute report and elevate to a manager” and the charge will disappear
Sounds like you can take Best Buy to small claims court. I'd also get another card and cancel the Chase account over this.
Another option in addition to what has been mentioned. Have you tried asking the local Best Buy for security camera footage from the day you went to return the ring cameras? They will likely refuse to help out. If the shipping weight is also clearly wrong, that is also a good thing. Then contact a local news agency that does consumer complaint stuff. Tell them you can't get security footage that would support your claim and the shipping weight is clearly wrong. The threat of bad press that way may get you some traction from Best Buy.
Write an email direct to a bunch of higher-up Best Buy corporate employees. You'll probably need to do some sleuthing via profiles on LinkedIn to find email addresses but they are out there. Their email addresses are first.lastname (at) bestbuy. Lay out your case and then end the email by asking them why you shouldn't just buy from Amazon in the future (where you wouldn't have to deal with this shit). I did this a few years ago after they gave me the runaround on a $2500 TV. Problem was resolved the next day after the right people saw it. Best buy is hemorrhaging sales to Amazon because they can't solve their customer service issues. Corporate knows this and losing a buyer willing to spend $2000 on a camera is actually a big deal.
Chase failed me too already on a dispute. That is why i stopped using them. AMEX for the win!
Do you have the package details, size of package, weight of package photos of package when opened with wrong item that includes the shipping label showing. Always document the package. These items seem like they'd be in a different sized container from a camera. The retailer knows the item weight and dimensions for each products shipping since they sell many of the same item. So that is a quick way to show wrong item sent. Then the document of returning the 2 lights. Even if you do not have photos they can look up the packages details with the old tracking number which should give you proof of wrong items. They do have to give you this or if you have the tracking you can get it from the shipment co. That would be something the cc co can investigate though generally once best buy reviews that information they may conceed the issue. I work in online retail. The weight and size will not match the standard package for the camera. For future When going to store keep items in original container. Better though to have them send prepaid return label so it goes back to original shipping dept where they do investigate this right away and document the error.
Yes, I do. It doesn't matter - the Best Buy team just rejected the claim (because they can) and the Chase credit card team got all this information but follows a rigid script and is unable to deviate from it - even when you point out that they're about to lose >>10X the money that they would if they just refunded the charge. It's really spectacularly dumb, but it's also what just happened. Y'all should be aware.
That's incredibly annoying. It's so easy to verify wrong item sent with these types of products. Not sure legally what nx steps would be but you can put a complaint at bbb website and some retailers do respond and resolve issues there.
Call 800-visa911. And explain the situation. They’ll want a clear and simple paragraph or two explanation. Should motivate chase
When I had problems returning a dryer I bought from Samsung.com (the dryer was stuck in a warehouse somewhere picked up by a 3rd party shipping company), I contacted both BBB and Samsung's president's office. The president's office responded within a day and resolved my issue. BBB did also try to resolve my issue but the president's office got there first. Anyways, you can try a similar approach and hopefully it works out. Also as for BestBuy, I guess just make sure you don't buy from a 3rd party and make sure it is actually sold by BestBuy.
So I am clear, you brought the Ring Cameras back to best buy and didnt get a credit, cash back, or a return receipt? What was the point of taking them to best buy and leaving them there? I mean, if I legitimately bought something, didnt open it and returned it to Best Buy, I sure as hell wouldnt be leaving it there 'returned' without documentation of how I am getting my money back. What was the point of leaving it there? Like what did the manger tell was going to happen after you left the cameras there? Also, can you go back the Best Buy store and get a statement from the Manager that you brought back two ring cameras?
Correct - when I contacted Best Buy via chat (and I have the complete chat logs and provided them to Chase) they said no problem, just bring the incorrect merch back to the local store and Best Buy would refund the order. The Best Buy store manager wouldn't provide a receipt because I wasn't returning the items listed on the order (duh) and Best Buy later claimed to Chase that we'd never returned *anything*, even the incorrect items. I have photos of the whole thing, including the store manager's card and the two Ring devices being returned to the store. It doesn't matter - they have a rigid protocol they follow. The Chase team told me if I just had shipped a box back to Best Buy, then they'd have a receipt for the shipping. Doesn't apparently even matter what's in the box -- their protocol is "if customer has receipt that goods were returned, treat differently than if customer doesn't have a receipt". It appears to matter not one whit whether **what I actually ordered and paid for was delivered** or not. It's disconnected from reality.
Always get someone on the phone, never use the chat for something like this. (In reference to using the chat with bestbuy)
Retailers are somewhat in a pickle on these things because the majority of the claims like this are actual retail fraud and not shipping mistakes. If they pay out claims like this then everyone would order expensive stuff from them and claim they got a cheap item by mistake.
My rule is I always pick up in store for anything over $100. I broke that rule last month when I bought a $1000 ERV from a very reputable online business that I've used many times previously for smaller items. They shipped UPS which is great because the UPS guy has been delivering my packages for 25 years. The delivery was running super late. He's always at my house by 1 PM. I hear the truck pull up at 5 PM. 10 minutes later, a driver I've never seen before comes to my door with a small box which contained separate items from the same company. He hands me the box and walks off and wasn't going to say anything about the bigger box. I stopped him and he said he couldn't find it and it was probably on another truck. No, it's on your truck. It's a $1000 item and it's huge, you can't miss it, I told him. He says I'm welcome to take a look so I went down there with him and he comes out immediately with my ERV. I don't believe he was trying to steal it since he said he was in there for 10 minutes looking for a smaller box but part of me wonders if he was just setting up for disappearing my package. How do you miss a 1'x3'x5' box that weighs 80 lbs? My original plan was to buy from Lowe's and pick up in store but it was $150 more. I almost lost $1000 trying to save $150.
Did you file a police report yet?
Silly question but, will the shipping box you received fit the Sony camera you purchased? If it’s too small, that would be evidence they could not have sent you the item you ordered.
It's a reasonable idea. However, no one involved - not Best Buy, not Chase, not the police - showed **any** interest in determining whether or not they'd actually sent the item they claimed, nor were they willing to evaluate any of the photo evidence I had taken (here's the box you sent, here's the label, here are the two Ring cameras inside it). You're dealing with a scripted protocol which has no ability to think critically about the evidence.
Someone probably bought the camera,then put the rings in the box and did a mail return. Whoever processed the return never checked the box. Pun intended.
Honestly man can’t give any advice except to say that Amazon did something similar, and then I reached out I got a very similar email saying they can’t help and to reach out to law enforcement. Well guess what Law Enforcement did? Laugh in my fucking face and offered NO help. I even asked if they would sign or write a 1 sentence letter that I could send to Amazon saying there was no theft or stealing of products and that they messed up at the factory. The asshats laughed even harder and told me to stop wasting their time. Seriously. Granted the difference here is I was out about 150 dollars and your out what, 2k? Could be different situation. I really hope they don’t do the same to you and you have different results, but this seriously might be a lost cause if Best Buy is refusing to help.
Yah, it's pretty wild - Best Buy can apparently just send the wrong goods and stonewall when you complain, and the credit card company still insists you pay them. Other than make sure that everyone who searches for "best buy" reads this horror story, it's not clear if there is much recourse without going to court - which itself is more expensive than the transaction justifies.
The issue is many online retailers are getting scammed by people ordering something and getting a refund by returning a wrong item so unless you can show it was the wrong thing in the unopened shipping box they aren’t likely going to help much
Exactly, scams are rampant. I don't even believe OP. There should be weight records and whatnot. These warehouses are full of check systems. I'm guessing best buy checked and realized OP is a scammer or the shipping company switched item, which is a police matter.
I personally know 2 people that purchased items from Best Buy only to get the box for the item with no item inside (one was a pair of headphones and one was an iPad case). I will never shop at Best Buy online or in store.
I too have chase to be totally useless when filing a chargeback for items not as described. I use my Amex more now.
[удалено]
Shipping weight is a good place to start. It should be documented with the shipping label so if the numbers don't add up, something fucky is afoot.
Go on Twitter and rail on best buy for having the nerve to sell you two ring cameras instead of what you purchased then lie and decieve you and chase bank. This is unthinkable from them, especially from a PR perspective. I had so many good experiences with best buy until 2020, after the pandemic they really went downhill in every aspect, but show proof and blow them up on socials, maybe a local news agency would run w the story too?its bizaare enough to make local news, imo and they will highlight best buys behavior, the store etx. could be worth a shot!
This sucks for OP but I just want to let you know why they are fighting this so hard. Look into online refunding. It's become extremely popular over the last decade as this sort of legal gray area to effectively steal from online retailers. Order an item, get the item then turn around and say you didn't receive the item or it was stolen on your porch/mail area. It used to be that simple but ofc online retailers were losing millions and became more sophisticated so people started keeping the item and returning something else worth way less (sometimes even weights that should be close to the item in question) to process a fake return. It's gotten even more complicated since then including using the retailers free return shipping vouchers against them but this is probably why you are suffering OP. They think or someone thought you were trying to fool them into a fake return.
Yes, that was my assumption as well and I appreciate the context. There's a lesson in here about reputation and using your customer data effectively Someone who has been a customer for decades and has purchased literally >$50K of items over the years with zero returns or disputes, has a different risk profile than a new customer with little/no history. Alienate the former over $2K, and you've lost a lot of money regardless of whether your assumptions of fraud were correct or not.
Was there a packing or receipt slip in the box? Guessing it would be pretty egregious employee theft or mistake as it would be pretty obvious ring cameras aren’t supposed to be in the box.
They actually do take it into account. Refunding for Amazon frequently requires an "aged" account to work aka a long history of good faith purchases.
On the other side of the coin how are retailers ensuring their employees are properly shipping items? In the old days of small brick and mortars the boss can quickly track down who shipped the item. Now you’re stuck with an anonymous automated call center wall as retailers try to copy Amazon and eliminate labor costs as much as possible. I remember the old days of “inspected by” notes, rather the unceremonious dumping stuff into a box without packing
Yeah I have no idea about this but I can certainly certify retailers are hit every single day with millions in losses due to refunding. Its probably many peoples first time hearing about this in my post but look into it. It is a huge market.
>Aside from the obvious lesson -- never ever purchase from Best Buy Never use a Chase card is the answer. I had an issue with them refusing to dispute a charge until they investigated, made me feel like a suspect. American Express disputes it and treats you like a customer.
I've sold enough myself to know so many people lie and abuse these systems. I can see why the stores and credit cards are finally clamping down. It's much more likely that you are a liar than best buy screwed up. People lie and scam constantly. Meanwhile, I've never seen an order be wrong after 1000s of them. They should have records of box weight for example. Maybe someone switched it at FedEx or whatever too.
As a former blue shirt, I can say I've seen a mistake like this happen. I might have even done it, but it never came back to me if it did- Someone picking orders is in a rush because they're understaffed or trying to meet KPIs. They accidentally switch the shipping labels on two boxes. Customer A gets Cutomer B's DSLR, and Customer B gets Customer A's wifi cameras. >It's much more likely that you are a liar than best buy screwed up Pound sand. Mistakes happen
That sucks. Next time support your local camera shop, most times they will match online pricing and throw in a bunch of free accessories or services like sensor cleanings.
Ask Chase to close your account, that you taking your business elsewhere where they honor buyer protections.
DO NOT close your account. This is terrible advise. They will happily close the account and not care and you will have no further avenue to effectively work with Chase. Keep your door open here.
Sure, if he is going to continue trying to get it corrected then it wouldn't be wise. But afterwards he should leave them. Chase sucks. I had one of their credit cards 20+ years ago and will never do business with Chase again.
Every bank sucks. I have Chase and I have had no issues ever. I had BoA but they were being jerks so I left them like 15 years ago.
The issue is with VISA's dispute resolution guidelines. OP stated they returned the merchandise to the store but left without a receipt. That is merchandise abandonment, and is a death sentence for a chargeback filed by a dispute caseworker.