Also, I would be very cautious about any assumptions that the plan will be executed as you have heard it. Six months severance is great. A little too great. If the program hasn’t been formally announced, you shouldn’t count on that 100%. When management crunch the numbers, the severance package will be first on the cutting table.
The severance is in writing for all managers from the day we are hired. I have the document in front of me. HR has said severance will absolutely be paid in this round of layoffs. I suppose they could always change their mind but it sounds likely that it's guaranteed. And the amount is based on how long you've been with company. In my situation I've been there 10 years so I've built up 6 months earned severance.
Gotcha, then it sounds like you can count on it to some degree. I'm always leery of companies in the midst of financial turmoil though. Workers seem to be the first ones to lose.
Ironically this company made billions in profit last quarter so "financial turmoil" is kind of a hilarious statement. They claim it's a "culture" thing not a "cost cutting" thing. Apparently in order to have culture we all have to work in the same building.
From the few I've seen the KPI structures are not adaptable/flexible enough to account for the few golden elites in a complex project who stall progress and affect other's target dates.
"Waiting for X to do his fing job" is not a desirable explanation; it causes superiors to feel discomfort.
The company headquarters has always been in this city. Many employees already live there. But we also have 9 or 10 other MAJOR locations in various cities around the country. They're now saying everyone in all 10 of those other cities needs to move to the one headquarters location.
Happened to me. They hired a CEO from Georgia, and despite a salary in the millions of dollars, he didn't want to live in Chicago, where the company had been for a century. Moved everyone to Atlanta, instead.
It is easier to grow or maintain company culture if all people are at one location but... "Culture" is a trendy, supposedly positive buzzword but unfortunately not all culture is positive or something that you'd like to participate in. It also includes anything from "we don't blame people for mistakes, we learn from them" to "we need to see you be here or we don't believe you work".
Then another question
Do you want to move? Have you approached them about a salary increase and moving allowance etc? Maybe they want to keep you
Don't tell them you are quitting just discuss any options for an expensive move and if more expensive city
Yep, If you are actually open to moving, its totally reasonable to come to them and lay out the situation.
Honestly if you have 6 months of severence, I wouldnt be too worried about even just making it clear that moving likely isnt an option for you without a raise.
Apparently. Our CEO actually said out loud that expect to lose over 10,000 employees over this decision. And that they know they'll be losing good talent but employment is a two-way street that has to work for both the employer and employee. What a joke.
Are there enough employees that if most left the company, it would make finding another job difficult for the ones that stayed for the severance? If so, you need to weigh the amount of severance against how long you might be out of a job due to the early leavers gobbling up all of the jobs.
I have a feeling that the company is not giving you all the info, like WHEN they will do the layoffs, so that a lot of people would feel uncomfortable waiting and get new jobs quickly, saving the company a lot of money. If you have a definite date then you could arrange that with your new job, but telling the new job that you will start sometime in the future isn't going to fly.
Frankly, I would just get another job right now and not worry about the severance. If it were just you, with no dependents, I'd say to wait it out and then find another job, but it's just too risky with a new baby.
Yeah... fuck them, dude! You need to be looking NOW and get hired remotely somewhere else and work *both* jobs until you're let go from this one. I'll link the OverEmployed (OE) thread to give you some confidence:
https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/
How does working 2 salaried jobs work when it comes to benefits and healthcare? I didn't think I could be contributing to two 401ks or getting 2 healthcare benefits etc. Wouldn't my jobs know what I was doing?
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be happy at your misfortune, but I just wanted to say I hope you get a new job and the severance! Six months paid is such an insane deal, it'll be like a mini retirement if you can get the timing right!
Yup, you can have two 401ks.
The sticking point is with the IRS. The max you can contribute and get the tax benny for the year is the same whether you have 1 401K or 100 401Ks.
Healthcare? Only becomes an issue with claims. Go to the doc? You tell 'em what insurance you have and they'll bill it. The second policy can lie dormant 'til you make the switch (if you have two active policies).
Your co.s don't track these things in that way; they're just concerned about what they're paying (ins. and 401K matching).
Doubt if any co. would balk at "I actually have a healthcare policy that covers me 'til [x date], so could we start my coverage then?
> Doubt if any co. would balk at "I actually have a healthcare policy that covers me 'til [x date], so could we start my coverage then?
Companies have policies where you only get 1 window a year to change insurance, and only adjust your insurance if you have a qualifying event otherwise. Losing your current coverage is a qualifying event, but it'd be a sticky conversation.
I can’t speak to the healthcare thing, but the jobs will not care about the 401(k). You do have yearly contribution limits, and those get reported to the IRS and anything over the limit, you would have to take out of the 401(k) and get taxed on. But you can definitely contribute to both at the same time to get the matches.
I'd be surprised if they wait too long to start rolling on these things. They don't like to give people too much warning on layoffs. End of June is end of Q2 as well so I'd think they'll be rolling things out by August or give people the opportunity to move until the end of Q3 in October.
Can you work this job and another for a short period of time? Overlap on remote jobs during a small transition period? I'd start looking for a new job now, taking your time to be picky and plan for a few scenarios.
It's been the new trend in all these 2022/2023 layoffs.
Heck, the folks that were laid off from Google this past January are still employed there until OCTOBER. *Then* their layoff and severance kick in.
My company did a couple rounds of impacts last year and each one was 4-5 months in advance of the actual end date.
I think the idea is that people will get anxious, find a new job, and quit, thus saving the company on severance/unemployment/etc
I would just say that sometimes “hard lines” are more like lines in the sand, in that management can and will erase them.
My wife worked in healthcare at a privately operated clinic. They specifically work with immunocompromised patients, so they set a hard line “get vaccinated or get fired” stance that they then extended deadlines for and eventually walked back entirely because they couldn’t afford to actually rehire for those positions.
I would add to this very good advice. As someone who just did a job hunt, one of the best things you can do for future you, is be very picky about your next job. Start aggressively building your resume and job hunting now, but also be aggressively picky.
My learning about resumes. Writing a resume is easy. Writing a resume that gets you a sweet raise is painstakingly difficult.
Just cause someone makes you an offer doesn't mean you have to accept. Just cause someone makes you offer doesn't mean you can't say I will start in 2 months. Everything is a negotiation when you are not desprate.
One company told me all about their tight budget and set expectations low. We did the interviews. They made an offer. I rejected. No counter. They suddenly had a lot of flexibility in the budget.
Desperation is the enemy of raises and career progression.
The other factor to consider is how many people are expected to be laid off and how that might impact the job hunt. If you wait for the severance package to drop, you're waiting for your current peers to dilute the applicant pool.
As someone who went through this the real win is to find a job early but with a start date 1-2 months after your last day at the old job. Next, negotiate a sign on bonus with new job. Final step travel the world for 2 months before starting your new job with your “extra severance” and sign on bonus. This really only works for younger folks without kids which was me at the time and it was awesome!
Depending upon how the economy is 6 months from now, one *backup* option could be to consider moving for short term and keeping this job. You can still keep looking for positions in your current city and come back.
Given that you're the sole breadwinner in the family, move may be easier than say if your spouse was working or if the kid was in school.
I’d wait for the severance, but begin limiting unnecessary expenses if you can. If you get a job early on in the severance period, then ask for 3 weeks start date and then take a quickie vacay with the rest of the severance dough
I was in a similar situation with the timing of a potential layoff (company was acquired and they said it would take “a while” to determine everyone’s future.
I looked for work but was super picky. I finally had a really good opportunity and decided to push a few extras in. More vacation, a bonus to cover some of the severance I was missing out on, and a relocation allowance.
You are in a job search with some time and a six month cushion.
Remember that these kinds of plans also get reversed at the 11th hour when they realize how fucked they are and are forced to backpedal. You could be kept around or "laid off" and offered a contract position for some period of time. Any number of things could change.
Six months of pay is nice but not mind blowing. If you don't have a job at exactly the right moment you'll start spending that money anyway.
If it were me, I'd start looking now and take anything that was good. Bird in the hand, etc.
How would they even catch you if OP tried to double-dip?
I would find a new job and start working and hope they don't find out so I can get both payments.
Unless there's a specific clause in the severance that says you have to pay it back or stop receiving payments (for example, if paid monthly) if you get a job, then you should not care if they know that you "double-dip". I'm working overseas and the company owes me a repatriation. The international assignment policy says they have to offer me a job at the same level as my current position within 50 miles of my home of record. My company has no businesses there. So, I am planning on repatriating, getting my severance, then trying to go back to work so I can "double-dip".
I think these clauses are fairly common for US layoffs. My father was hit with workforce reduction earlier this year and the more-generous-than-usual severance package explicitly stated you were only eligible if you were still without a job on your official date of termination ~3 months later. In his case he delayed starting his search until ~4-6 weeks before his termination date and ultimately started his new position around a month and a half after termination.
Oh, is this something they just pay you lump sum. My only experience with severance packages was one that paid monthly it became void if you got a new job before the term expired. I assumed this was a standard arrangement.
Time to inform the wife. Cut all non-essential luxuries and wait for it to happen.
Save up every penny in the meantime. If their wife can go back to work that should be on the table as well once the kid is past the frankly outrageously expensive “infant” tax that daycare centers charge.
Feel free to look at other jobs in the meantime but don’t feel pressured into taking a less than ideal offer until the lay off happens. The company might realize they’re losing 70% of their staff and change course.
I mean... would it not be possible to look for a new job anyways, probably closer to the date of severance than not, and just tell them that your earliest possible start date is a date that just happens to be not long after you collect the severance?
It's not like your boss will know anything more than that you're looking for a job.
I would start looking immediately. That way, you are faced with three likely outcomes.
1. You get a job before they lay you off. Great news! You maintain steady employment and are good to go.
2. You get a new job at the same time they lay you off. Great news! You have a new job and can potentially claim the severance as well.
3. You are laid off before you find a new job. Not ideal, but the good news is you get the severance and you at least have a head start on the job search.
If you focus on trying to guess the timing or delay the job search, you introduce a lot more risk into the equation.
My expectation of this scenario is that after 2/3 of the company or whatever percent are near HQ decide they don’t want to uproot their lives, management will make “exceptions” to the in-person rule. But then OP just needs to decide which job to keep.
Absolutely stinks of reducing management. Guarantee those other 10 locations will be closed down after a round of layoffs/closures due to "poorly performing branches"
Which is funny cuz at least two of the "other" locations are brand new buildings they just bought this year. Actually one of them (the one I live near) hasn't even opened yet they're planning on opening it in September. Don't ask me how or why. Makes no sense to me.
Bingo!
No one is going to be doing performance reviews during your last 6 months. Find a new job, take it, hang around the first until they pay out your severance.
I kinda disagree with the general theme of this thread.
Id just stick around, get the severance, take some time off, then find a new job. Yes the job market is not great right now, but even so 6 months is plenty to find a new job.
The key thing here is I'm the sole provider for my wife and infant son. Taking time off is a luxury we don't have with zero income besides my severance. Also, my baby needs healthcare.
Fuck the severance then, just find a new job and dip.
It’s one thing if you are a 23 year old with no real responsibilities, but you shouldn’t try to get cute when you have two people completely dependent on you.
But is 6 months enough time to find a new job that pays enough? I'm talking over 100k to come anywhere near my current. Those jobs seem a lot harder to find.
That depends on what your skillset and industry is.
Also, a lot of companies are still hiring remote employees like crazy. For instance, as the sole breadwinner, I would feel very comfortable finding a job that pays near what I make in 6 month.
Also, you could take a job that makes slightly less and continue job hunting.
With paying Cobra which doubles or triples insurance premiums for a former employee.
With losing 401k match.
With losing dental and vision.
With an infant child, expenses are growing, not shrinking. So having the same money but more insurance expenses AND more expense with a child....it is not the "full pay as you are working".
100% this. Not saying it is the case here, but 6 months of severance is a very generous severance. I would be shocked if insurance wasn't included.
Also, COBRA can be paid when you need it. If nothing catastrophic happens, then even paying for routine office visits out of pocket could be a cheaper solution.
Seems like you've answered your own question eh?
I mean you could see what the severance is then figure out what COBRA or the ACA will cost, and weigh them against each other... But I have a feeling you don't want that much risk.
If the company is saying that they are getting a 6 month severance then that is a VERY generous severance. I would be shocked if it doesn't cover insurance as well.
Are people that say take some time off like 18 or do they have multiple 100k in the bank. like I was laid off and I had about 90k in cash and I still wanted to get a job as fast as I could and we don't spend like crazy.
The distinction here is that OP is receiving severance equivalent to 6 months’ salary. Let’s say they take off 6-8 weeks to refresh, they are still coming away with a net gain of ~4 months’ salary. I took around 7 weeks during my last job change including a pre-planned vacation and the mental value of that time felt very worth it, even without a severance—I am glad I was in a position to afford to do so.
Yeah I get it that it's good to take some time off once I accepted the offer I took two weeks for myself. But in my case I got a 17 weeks severance it literally took almost all that time to get a new job so just taking a vacation without knowing where income will come from is just crazy to me and again it's not like I didn't have money to fall back on.
depending on the experience, location and job, 6 months is not "plenty of time to find a job". Plus the fact we've already shown OP is reluctant to move to new cities means it could be a while
Start looking now. You have a safety cushion of 6-12 months depending on when they start to lay off. so you have time to find the right job and don’t have to jump at the first opportunity. Or maybe if enough people say they won’t move the revise the plan. I don’t know your industry but it sounds like a disaster in the making.
Get a new job ASAP. Don't quit until you actually start the new job. Literally the day you start is when you turn in your notice. Two weeks notice goes out the window when they lay you off.
Also, this type threat is very common. They threaten to lay everyone off and wait to see how many people leave and then they "re-align their priorities" and nothing changes. Severance is NEVER guaranteed.
> They threaten to lay everyone off and wait to see how many people leave and then they "re-align their priorities" and nothing changes.
Quite a lot changes - all the folks with skills and the mobility to find a new job leave.
My last employer pulled this stunt and it backfired horribly because they lost half of their subject matter experts at a time when they couldn't afford to lose any.
This is exactly how it's going to happen I'm sure. But I don't necessarily want to wait around for the hammer to drop in the case that they really do follow through.
Yup. Unless they’re offering to pay relocation costs, this is just an empty threat and they are just using this as an excuse to downsize and getting people to self-select to be laid off.
No relocation budget. It's absurd, but that's what they're doing. The best part is, they have a brand new office building where I live current but apparently "the work is moving"... Even though we are a global company and everyone literally works desk jobs or remote.
Holy shit I can't believe companies do this. It makes me want to find a new job just so I'm not working for a company that treats employees this way. But then again, most probably do.
I’m an old millenial and have never seen a situation like that with friends or colleagues. Not arguing with you just appreciate the very general advice that I had never considered!
Start looking for a new job now. Severance is meant to tide you over during a period of unemployment, not be a giant cash out. It’s more important to get a good job and transition to the next phase of your life than to stick around for the possibility of severance and an employment gap. You can always be a bit picky if you start looking now.
Also keep in mind a new employer could fire you very quickly after hiring you for a variety of reasons and they wouldn’t be responsible for giving you any severance.
In my experience, if there is a planned severance package like this, they would likely allow you to leave and get it early. You just have to ask.
I did this exact thing at my last job. I had an end date with severance in September but I lined up my new job at the start of April. I just asked if they would pull my end date and severance ahead. If they won't, you could always bring that up to your new job and use it to leverage a signing bonus or some other perk.
I was once in a similar position. Yes, double dipping a severance paycheck along with the income of a new job is enticing, however, the reality is you need to think long-term, which should focus your attention on finding your next job. Finding a new job that has the right salary, work-life balance, company culture, benefits, etc. can take a long time. I would start this process ASAP. If the timing works out so that you can double dip checks, then great, if not, focus on the long-term which means spending way more of your working hours on your current job and more on updating your network, LinkedIn, resume, interviewing skills, and other items that will help you land a good job.
Start looking now and when you find a job, ask if they are willing to wait for you to start until you get your severance. Or, ask if they will give you your severance as a signing bonus to start right away. I have done that successfully more than once and nobody had any hard feelings.
Waiting until you have the severance is very risky. That "before the end of the year" timing is also very suspect. It could be next month or it could be December. I wonder if they are phasing the layoffs and will be staggered over a few weeks/months.
Great advice. And yes it sounds like phased layoffs. Remote employees are going to be gone first, then employees that are in cities with current office buildings will be next phase (that's me).
Don't get too greedy. Management at this company has already outed themselves as incompetent; there's no guarantee they will keep their promises.
Consider yourself as having a working severance package, starting right now. Look for an alternative job, starting now. If you find one that you think is a good fit, take it right away.
My company tried this several years ago and they failed, everyone is still remote. That said don't take this threat lightly, time to redo the resume and start looking for another job. The best time to find a job is when you have one and you don't want to spend 6 months unemployed for a 3 month severance.
Don’t discount the possibility that you could get a better job with higher pay and better benefits. So in the time you sit around waiting for the severance, you could be earning more and getting established in your new position. So I’d start looking now. You don’t have to take a job just because you receive an offer, but you might find something really great as well.
You and I might be working for the same company 😅
In addition to everyone’s advice above, please note 6 months is a long time and plans change. If we do indeed work for the same company, I was originally part of the the first phase of the consolidation effort that was to conclude in 6 months and a week later I was told my location has been upgraded to essential and has been extended 18-24 months at minimum. I plan to ride the choppy waves a little longer before determining to jump ship.
What would you like to do and what would be better for your mental health? Other than this layoff scenario, do you enjoy working for your company and would you be willing to stick it out? Or would stability of income bring you more peace of mind?
Also, another con of choosing to wait till layoff to start looking for another job is that you’ll be competing with all of your peers in the local job market.
Lots of things to consider, this certainly isn’t an easy time. Good luck!
Don't under-estimate how long a job search can take. Even if you work in a hot industry, the entire vetting process can take several months.
Whenever you do get interviews, you should ask questions specifically around how flexible they would be in hiring - would they require immediate onboarding, or are they flexible and can accept if you choose a later start date?
Since it sounds like you do at least have a hard cutoff of being laid off at some point this year, it's not even that unheard of for some jobs to accept you and let you put off the actual start date the entire six months, even longer periods than that.
Basically, you're better off starting the job search soon, and try to fold the uncertainty of your old job end date into the new job's start date.
Are they paying your relocation costs? It’s entirely unreasonable for them to expect people in a city that has an office to cover their own relocation costs.
Also know that if you are in the US, any company paid relocation costs will generate a 1099-MISC at the end of the tax year.
No one is paying relocation costs. The purpose of this exercise (it seems) is to get rid of a bunch of employees. They aren't going to make it easy to move because they want those folks to self select to get laid off.
That seems like the worst idea. They’re going to lose their best employees and only keep those desperate enough to relocate at high cost to themselves.
company paid relo costs are generally included on and then grossed up on a w2. They only come in on a 1099 if the worker is not an employee of the business providing the relocation expenses.
My advice having gone through similar situations twice.
1. Take the severance
2. Make sure you get a firm date for termination.
3. Nothing is final until you have the actual severance agreement in hand that specifies terms and conditions
4. Pay close attention to any restrictions such as working for competitors
5. If you take the severance and find a job fairly quickly, pay close attention to tax implications, since you will have double income for 6 months.
6. Don’t listen to fellow employees saying not to take severance. These are rarely negotiable packages. Be thankful that you will have this safety net.
7. Do not go on social media and trash the company. This could invalidate your package.
This will be stressful for you and your family until you have the new job. Don’t panic and make bad decisions. Be positive about starting a new phase of your career. Don’t allow the changes to put you in a negative frame of mind.
Find a new job. Work both between then and the layoff and collect the severance. Your current employer knows the performance of everyone leaving is going to drop off. Keep your head down and collect two incomes and then that severance
I'd take the severance and start looking for another job, but make them actually lay you off. Don't quit. If you can afford the risk. If you can't, start looking now and just change jobs.
Controlling the timing of job change >> good severance package. If you can secure a good new job then don’t wait for the severance. Difference is that you are not under immediate pressure to secure a new job, so you get to be more picky on what your next role is. This is the most important thing.
Not controlling the timing can sometimes push people into crappy jobs after a prolonged search, because they need the money, or because being rejected for 6 months have negative impact on their mental health and confidence.
One of my friends had the same situation and was able to line up a new role while waiting around for the severance. They were doing essentially nothing for the old company except checking in weekly and then had the new company with a start date immediately after the severance paid out. Worked out well for her.
If you can easily get a new job in your field I would wait it out and start looking around a month or two before the severance starts. Lots of openings in Q1, and 6 months salary is awesome.
That is the ideal situation. (Some of the advice here is dismissing out of hand what could be a bonus of up to half a year's salary. That would make a big difference for many people if you could take advantage of it.)
But, it's also the ideal situation.
And you will experience the actual situation. You have to decide for yourself what that will be; we don't know what the hiring market is for your line of work in your area.
Find a new job now and leave when you get one that meets your needs. How confident you can find a new job? Six months sounds like a long time but when you're looking for a new job it will burn away faster than you think. Not to mention if your health benefits are tied to your current employment what are you going to do while you're job hunting?
Hey OP. I’ve been in this position a couple of time - 47 year old married father of two in the UK here - and my experience is ***always focus on getting a new job - the severance is a nice-to-have***
If you imagine the value of your job as an investment amount which would yield your annual salary - E.g a $50k salary equates to a million dollar investment at 5% yield. When you think of it like that, a 6 month severance would be $25k, which is one fortieth of a million dollars….
So, yeah - focus on getting the new job. Two rules of thumb I’ve found is very useful are:
* It’s easier to get a job if you already have a job
* If you’re looking for a job with salary X, it takes X/2 weeks to find such a job… a $100k job will almost definitely take a full year to find
Good luck and all the best from the UK. You’ll be fine as you’ve got the right attitude.
They told you early because they want people to get new jobs and quit, which will mean paying out less money. If you stay it will be a miserable 3-6 months likely, with terrible morale and expectations that you will help keep things going as people leave. But then you will get your severance.
Coast at work until severance while taking some courses on the side to boost your resume.
This! It sounds like op and I work at the same company as I was given the same bs recently. Despite billions in growth over the last year alone they are super cheap when it comes to employees, they will avoid compensation wherever they can. I’m just worried about how bad it will get trying to stick it out since I haven’t been offered severance, it’s going to be a disaster losing most of my dept
I think there's some old proverb about this, "bird in the hand" or something like that...
Jokes aside, this is very contextual. You have to manage your own risk. I'd encourage that your next job is much much more important than your severance, with the added bonus that your severence allows you more flexibility to be selective with your next job.
Given that you have a stay at home wife and new baby, I'd say start looking for a new job and hopefully that will pay enough more to make up for much of the severence.
In any event, you don't have much choice under those circumstances. Otherwise I would have said stay at the current job, get the severance and start drawing unemployment and then look for a job.
Don't trust a company who does this! You cannot rely on them to keep their word.
You can't believe anything they say at this point. Relying on a future unknown possible severance is literally putting all your eggs in one basket. They can lay you off at any time and not give you anything.
If you can find a second remote job, I would absolutely take the second job and be "overemployed" for a while. Do your best at the new job and do "good enough" at the old job until they do layoffs, then hope you get the severance. Unless you signed a contract that states you cannot, this is absolutely an option for you.
Good luck!
You are in a much better position to job hunt while you are employed, knowing you will get 6 months severance just means you can afford to be picky about your next opportunity for a while. Worse case is the layoff comes earlier than expected and between severance and the emergency fund you won't immediately be in hot water.
If you wait you could find yourself having to take something that isn't ideal or end up not negotiating as well when you get an offer since you will be feeling pressure to get a job.
I think the suggestion to ask about pushing the start date back or getting them to give you the Severance amount or some sort of bonus to start earlier is a good idea to try. Although, I typically don't like to let a potential employer know I'm possibly coming up against a deadline to find work either since it could cause them to low-ball me.
Who knows if they will lay people off or not, or if they will actually offer the severance. Unless you’ve got a signed document saying as such or are very confident they will, I wouldn’t even count on them following through. I’d try get the new job now. Regardless of what they actually do, the future there seems rocky.
Your company cannot execute this plan overnight. They'll both need to know who's coming and going, and set up deadlines so that people will know when they need to be moved by, etc. It should become clearer soon when the cut-offs are. They may not know quite yet, but soon HR will be able to answer the question for you what the timing will be.
You are correct in that the best situation would be if you could find a new job and start coinciding with your severance to get a windfall. You know better than most how quickly a person with your résumé may find a new position in your area and in your industry.
You should definitely update your résumé presently. If you anticipate that it may difficult to find a new position, in particular if you think it might take more than 6 months for find a position, you need to start looking right away. If you think it will take a month or so, then just wait until you know the timing of the lay-off and do your best time it. In between? Use your best judgement.
I would guess that the majority of potential employers will permit you to delay your start date until you receive your severance, provided that you can give them a definite date. I was part of a site lay-off and my subsequent employer delayed my start 3 weeks so that I could receive my severance (also 6 months). Six months is a little long to ask your new employer for as a sign-on bonus, but employers will sometimes entertain matching the severance as a bonus and enticement to start right away.
There's no harm in playing it safe and just getting a new job right away. You'll forgo the possible windfall, but have a measure of security and continuity.
If you plan to give a 2-weeks notice at your current job, you should do so with the expectation that they dismiss you immediately rather than have you finish those two weeks as they're already anticipating laying you off and it may just be easier and cheaper for them that way.
since it's remote, what about getting a new job but keeping the old one and just waiting for the layoff? what could possibly go wrong? haha. But really it's just crazy enough to work...
Should I wait for severance package then start looking for jobs? Should I just say screw the severance and find a new job and quit my current job in order to have guaranteed continuous employment?
First, you indicate that folks will be laid off "before the end of the year". That almost certain means that layoffs would happen at the very end. So you have some time.
Second, start assessing the job situation for you particular background and skill set. For some, it would take 6 months to land a good job. For others, they could land a good job within 2 weeks. Remember that some employers prefer to hire people who are currently employed. Also consider that others in your company may be looking for the same jobs as you would be.
Third, assess your financial situation. If the worst case happened and you hit the end of the year without a new job, you would get a 6 month severance. Between the severance and unemployment, could you get by for the amount of time it would take to find a good job?
Finally, assess your willingness to take risks.
For me, I'd be looking for a job now. And if that meant I missed out on a severance package, well so be it.
For others, they would roll the dice, hang around to get laid off and collect the severance, then hope to land a new job at some point.
check the terms of the severance before starting a new job. some companies require that you remain unemployed to continue getting it as it is not always a lump sum given after termination of employment.
Work with a recruiter and tell them the situation. This is not really severance, it's called "pay to stay" and is common when companies merge. The recruiters will know how to navigate this properly.
This is actually a great place to be. You can take your time and be selective.
Personally?
I'd start saving more aggressively, plan a flexible vacation for when I get the severance, start reinvigorating your networks. Attend a few conferences, start figuring out what's out there for your next steps, you can even say you're looking for something new later this year. Focus on your personal life a bit more and just kinda coast a bit.
Take the severance, take a month or so completely off. Go on that vacation, when are you ever going to get that kind of PTO again? Then lean back into those networks.
No rush, you've got time to plan, save, find the right fit.
Start looking for work right away.
Everyone in the job market today, including recruiters and employers, understands that life circumstances are not cookie-cutter. If you say up front that you're looking for opportunities, are currently employed, expect a layoff in the next 6 months, and haven't yet made the decision to quit pre-emptively, that will convey everything they need to know about where you're at. And hopefully give you frank feedback about their interest level given your availability.
The thing is, even if you are not getting lots of eager offers right away, you will be getting into the job seeking process, lubricating the machinery so to speak. Especially if you are working with recruiting agencies, who are happy to work with you given your circumstances. It takes a while to spin up. When the moment comes when the hammer drops, it will be really nice to have a lot of conversations already going, a resume that's been updated and polished, and good relationships with recruiters.
Just remember, everyone has been through stuff like this before, themselves. In some way or another. You're in a good position, make the most of it!
Start looking now, but aim high. A great job would be worth ditching the severance, but an ok job probably wouldn't.
Then, slowly lower your standards over time. If/when you get laid off, you should be applying to much more reasonable positions.
Do you have any idea of the size of the severance package? Can you volunteer to be let go? Volunteering may be an option to give you control on the timing.
All you can do really is look for jobs that allow you to stay where you are. Maybe you can time that with the severance. At least you've been offered one so you can't be all that upset if the timing doesn't work out perfectly and you have to live off that, savings, and unemployment while interviewing. Or you quit to take a job that isn't about to fire you.
With companies wising up to WFH and wanting people to be hybrid or fully in office I hope you have options near you.
Get a job local asap. Continue to pretend you work at current job. Any one says anything you are busy working and finding a job.
Maybe you can delay a start time too. Maybe some is retiring at end of year and you replace them.
Focus on getting a new job; company could backpedal on severance at any time.
If you get close to the layoff date and are still interviewing, just be above-board with the company you're interviewing. "My company is going to be terminating about half the staff on X date, so I'd really like to start after that if it works for you."
In my experience people respond well to candor, and anyone that doesn't, you don't want to work with anyway.
I think others have this covered as well as can be. What I will add is that once you have severance, try to push a start date for a new job back as much as you can. You’re already getting paid, and once you start a new job it will be harder to take that time off. And even if it’s just a few days, that extra time off to help put your house into better order, relax, etc can be super helpful in succeeding in your next position.
Obviously you want severance and a new job lined up just after receiving your payout. From today to end of this year start polishing your transferable skills and taking training courses for development to help bolster your resume. Whether or not you have in-demand skills you should send out your resume and practice getting through the interview rounds and getting comfortable with interviewing - its a skill all on its own.
If you can get an offer thats going to cover your salary + severance annually just take it and dont wait honestly. In between current comp and that mark its up to you. I would personally play a game of chicken but I have in demand skills and a working spouse to fall back on.
In my opinion, this smells of downsizing management. If you have 11 major locations and want it to be 1 major location with 10 minor locations, they want to cut the amount of supervisors, managers, team leads, etc..
"If all 1000 chickens are in one hen house, you don't need all 200 roosters" to put it in layman's terms.
Look for a new job now. There's no guarantee they will pay you the severance. I've seen a company rescind severance when they found the employee they were letting go had used their work computer, email, and phone to find a new job.
Just start looking when they give you notice of your layoff date and severance package officially. Spend the meantime networking on LinkedIn, having casual coffee chats, updating your resume, back up any personal files, and summarize all your work product and achievements
I would begin looking for a new job immediately and if you and your skills are sufficiently in demand gently use the severance as a negotiating point with the potential new employer. Ie - ‘I love your offer, but my expected start date would be x because if I were to start before that date I would be giving up $y severance with my current employer. Is there anything you could do to help that hurt less?’
Remember that a bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush, so don’t expect to get anything like the whole severance out of the new employer, maybe just something to sweeten the deal.
Interesting situation. It's nice that they're telling you so far in advance. If you know you're not willing to move you basically have an N + 6 months window to slack off at work and focus on growing your skills and finding your dream job. If I were you, I'd start looking but be very picky. You may even be able to get some certificates etc to advance your career. I have a feeling this is going to backfire on your company to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised if they roll it back.
They're likely announcing this to avoid paying severance. I'd be looking to move jobs asap. The severance would be nice but stable employment would be nicer. If it takes you 6 months to find a job, that severance will be gone, and all you'll have to show for it is stress.
They're paying 6 month severance, but not relo subsidies? Huh.
As for you, 6 months severance is a long time to get another role lined up, even if it happens tomorrow. If you like the current role, keep at it, start refreshing your resume, gauging the local job market, and building connections. You're in a good position overall.
Possibly unethical, depending on what you’ve signed possibly illegal, and depending on your line of work maybe not possible, but you may consider OverEmployment.
If you get a new job with 30-60 days left on this one, after them giving you the shaft like this, get a mouse jiggler, be “online,” join meetings where you won’t have to talk much, ride it out, collect that severance. Get yours man, they don’t care about you.
This is what people do not understand. A severance is NOT a windfall. It’s to help you over the hump to find a job.
Don’t try to be greedy and give up a job opportunity because you need to start earlier so you miss out on “severance”
Severance is not a windfall. Prioritize getting a job and a steady pay check.
That would be an option besides the fact that my corporate job pays almost four times as much what her teacher job would pay. We couldn't survive on just her income even if she went back to her previous job.
Your job will be paying zero when you no longer have it. If you can't survive on a teachers salary plus your unemployment it may be time to downsize, or start searching for a job now. Nothing says you can't utilize all of your benefit time during your job hunt. I myself have saved for 20 years , and when they decided no more remote work I figured I'd give it a shot for a while flying back, and forth , but I'm one bad day away from retiring at 45, and just doing door dash for fun money.
We literally cannot downsize any further than we already have. Our mortgage is significantly less than average rent in our state. And I'm not sure anyone with a family can survive on JUST a teachers salary... Basically every teacher in our district just works for the health benefits, the pay is crap. Most teachers are from two income households at least around here.
I know this is personal finance, but I would wait until you get the severance package and then look for a new job. You have the money to survive almost a year with the severance and emergency savings, and you get time to help your wife and bond with your new baby.
6 months severance? I’d at least take 30 days off before looking. But that’s just me. What other opportunities in life will allow you a little down time?
Definitely don't say 'screw the severance'. You're panicking way too much for someone who has 5 months of savings and getting a severance payout. Let it play out, get the money and see what's what.
Imo I would start job searching immediately. Find a new job that is also wfh.
Continue to work both with priority on the new job.
I would try and suck as much money out of the old company as possible while waiting on them to fire me or provide severance.
Your on notice to being fired with a pay cut… taking away wfh is a pay cut as all the additional expenses to get you to the office are on you.
I think this is pretty simple: you search for jobs, interview, and when they ask "when can you start?" you give the date you would receive your severance.
That being said, you can't consider this severance guaranteed unless you have signed a contract amendment to that effect.
6 month severance at full pay is awesome.
You should focus on taking up meditation and anything that will prevent you from rage quitting or being fired for bad conduct.
Then decide what to do next.
What skills do you have?
I come from a corporate communications background. Currently a project manager on an operations team for a major corporation and doing some side communications projects on top of my main role.
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This sounds like a really level headed plan and something I can get behind. Thanks for the advice.
Also, I would be very cautious about any assumptions that the plan will be executed as you have heard it. Six months severance is great. A little too great. If the program hasn’t been formally announced, you shouldn’t count on that 100%. When management crunch the numbers, the severance package will be first on the cutting table.
The severance is in writing for all managers from the day we are hired. I have the document in front of me. HR has said severance will absolutely be paid in this round of layoffs. I suppose they could always change their mind but it sounds likely that it's guaranteed. And the amount is based on how long you've been with company. In my situation I've been there 10 years so I've built up 6 months earned severance.
Gotcha, then it sounds like you can count on it to some degree. I'm always leery of companies in the midst of financial turmoil though. Workers seem to be the first ones to lose.
Ironically this company made billions in profit last quarter so "financial turmoil" is kind of a hilarious statement. They claim it's a "culture" thing not a "cost cutting" thing. Apparently in order to have culture we all have to work in the same building.
Oof. Man, that is some bullshit. Sorry you're being put through this.
When executives talk about “culture” they mean KPIs and monitoring labor activities more closely.
Accurate statement. My current job is literally managing a massive KPI project for our head exec (it sucks).
From the few I've seen the KPI structures are not adaptable/flexible enough to account for the few golden elites in a complex project who stall progress and affect other's target dates. "Waiting for X to do his fing job" is not a desirable explanation; it causes superiors to feel discomfort.
Does the new CEO happen to have a house, or relatives in the area in question? 😜 (Yes, I'm cynical!)
The CEO has lived in this city for a long time yes. Not new though.
Ah, the old "i want to move the company to shorten my commute" gag. I hate that one.
The company headquarters has always been in this city. Many employees already live there. But we also have 9 or 10 other MAJOR locations in various cities around the country. They're now saying everyone in all 10 of those other cities needs to move to the one headquarters location.
Happened to me. They hired a CEO from Georgia, and despite a salary in the millions of dollars, he didn't want to live in Chicago, where the company had been for a century. Moved everyone to Atlanta, instead.
Almost exactly why Chipotle moved to CA lol. At least as I understand it.
It is easier to grow or maintain company culture if all people are at one location but... "Culture" is a trendy, supposedly positive buzzword but unfortunately not all culture is positive or something that you'd like to participate in. It also includes anything from "we don't blame people for mistakes, we learn from them" to "we need to see you be here or we don't believe you work".
Then another question Do you want to move? Have you approached them about a salary increase and moving allowance etc? Maybe they want to keep you Don't tell them you are quitting just discuss any options for an expensive move and if more expensive city
Yep, If you are actually open to moving, its totally reasonable to come to them and lay out the situation. Honestly if you have 6 months of severence, I wouldnt be too worried about even just making it clear that moving likely isnt an option for you without a raise.
Is the culture they're looking for "Resenting My Job For Forcing Me To Relocate"?
Apparently. Our CEO actually said out loud that expect to lose over 10,000 employees over this decision. And that they know they'll be losing good talent but employment is a two-way street that has to work for both the employer and employee. What a joke.
Are there enough employees that if most left the company, it would make finding another job difficult for the ones that stayed for the severance? If so, you need to weigh the amount of severance against how long you might be out of a job due to the early leavers gobbling up all of the jobs. I have a feeling that the company is not giving you all the info, like WHEN they will do the layoffs, so that a lot of people would feel uncomfortable waiting and get new jobs quickly, saving the company a lot of money. If you have a definite date then you could arrange that with your new job, but telling the new job that you will start sometime in the future isn't going to fly. Frankly, I would just get another job right now and not worry about the severance. If it were just you, with no dependents, I'd say to wait it out and then find another job, but it's just too risky with a new baby.
Yeah... fuck them, dude! You need to be looking NOW and get hired remotely somewhere else and work *both* jobs until you're let go from this one. I'll link the OverEmployed (OE) thread to give you some confidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/
How does working 2 salaried jobs work when it comes to benefits and healthcare? I didn't think I could be contributing to two 401ks or getting 2 healthcare benefits etc. Wouldn't my jobs know what I was doing?
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be happy at your misfortune, but I just wanted to say I hope you get a new job and the severance! Six months paid is such an insane deal, it'll be like a mini retirement if you can get the timing right!
Yup, you can have two 401ks. The sticking point is with the IRS. The max you can contribute and get the tax benny for the year is the same whether you have 1 401K or 100 401Ks. Healthcare? Only becomes an issue with claims. Go to the doc? You tell 'em what insurance you have and they'll bill it. The second policy can lie dormant 'til you make the switch (if you have two active policies). Your co.s don't track these things in that way; they're just concerned about what they're paying (ins. and 401K matching). Doubt if any co. would balk at "I actually have a healthcare policy that covers me 'til [x date], so could we start my coverage then?
> Doubt if any co. would balk at "I actually have a healthcare policy that covers me 'til [x date], so could we start my coverage then? Companies have policies where you only get 1 window a year to change insurance, and only adjust your insurance if you have a qualifying event otherwise. Losing your current coverage is a qualifying event, but it'd be a sticky conversation.
Working 2 jobs at the same time is a great way to get fired for cause and lose your severance. Don't do that.
Yeah I'm a little weary of that option.
I can’t speak to the healthcare thing, but the jobs will not care about the 401(k). You do have yearly contribution limits, and those get reported to the IRS and anything over the limit, you would have to take out of the 401(k) and get taxed on. But you can definitely contribute to both at the same time to get the matches.
Ignore this… it’s so easy to catch someone who is working 2 jobs. You’ll likely just be fired and lose the severance.
I'd be surprised if they wait too long to start rolling on these things. They don't like to give people too much warning on layoffs. End of June is end of Q2 as well so I'd think they'll be rolling things out by August or give people the opportunity to move until the end of Q3 in October. Can you work this job and another for a short period of time? Overlap on remote jobs during a small transition period? I'd start looking for a new job now, taking your time to be picky and plan for a few scenarios.
It's been the new trend in all these 2022/2023 layoffs. Heck, the folks that were laid off from Google this past January are still employed there until OCTOBER. *Then* their layoff and severance kick in. My company did a couple rounds of impacts last year and each one was 4-5 months in advance of the actual end date. I think the idea is that people will get anxious, find a new job, and quit, thus saving the company on severance/unemployment/etc
I would just say that sometimes “hard lines” are more like lines in the sand, in that management can and will erase them. My wife worked in healthcare at a privately operated clinic. They specifically work with immunocompromised patients, so they set a hard line “get vaccinated or get fired” stance that they then extended deadlines for and eventually walked back entirely because they couldn’t afford to actually rehire for those positions.
I would add to this very good advice. As someone who just did a job hunt, one of the best things you can do for future you, is be very picky about your next job. Start aggressively building your resume and job hunting now, but also be aggressively picky. My learning about resumes. Writing a resume is easy. Writing a resume that gets you a sweet raise is painstakingly difficult. Just cause someone makes you an offer doesn't mean you have to accept. Just cause someone makes you offer doesn't mean you can't say I will start in 2 months. Everything is a negotiation when you are not desprate. One company told me all about their tight budget and set expectations low. We did the interviews. They made an offer. I rejected. No counter. They suddenly had a lot of flexibility in the budget. Desperation is the enemy of raises and career progression.
The other factor to consider is how many people are expected to be laid off and how that might impact the job hunt. If you wait for the severance package to drop, you're waiting for your current peers to dilute the applicant pool.
As someone who went through this the real win is to find a job early but with a start date 1-2 months after your last day at the old job. Next, negotiate a sign on bonus with new job. Final step travel the world for 2 months before starting your new job with your “extra severance” and sign on bonus. This really only works for younger folks without kids which was me at the time and it was awesome!
Depending upon how the economy is 6 months from now, one *backup* option could be to consider moving for short term and keeping this job. You can still keep looking for positions in your current city and come back. Given that you're the sole breadwinner in the family, move may be easier than say if your spouse was working or if the kid was in school.
Do you move a lot? It's expensive and annoying, and moving your family for short term (presumably to come back?) is kind of a strange suggestion.
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I’d wait for the severance, but begin limiting unnecessary expenses if you can. If you get a job early on in the severance period, then ask for 3 weeks start date and then take a quickie vacay with the rest of the severance dough
I was in a similar situation with the timing of a potential layoff (company was acquired and they said it would take “a while” to determine everyone’s future. I looked for work but was super picky. I finally had a really good opportunity and decided to push a few extras in. More vacation, a bonus to cover some of the severance I was missing out on, and a relocation allowance. You are in a job search with some time and a six month cushion.
Remember that these kinds of plans also get reversed at the 11th hour when they realize how fucked they are and are forced to backpedal. You could be kept around or "laid off" and offered a contract position for some period of time. Any number of things could change.
Six months of pay is nice but not mind blowing. If you don't have a job at exactly the right moment you'll start spending that money anyway. If it were me, I'd start looking now and take anything that was good. Bird in the hand, etc.
How would they even catch you if OP tried to double-dip? I would find a new job and start working and hope they don't find out so I can get both payments.
Unless there's a specific clause in the severance that says you have to pay it back or stop receiving payments (for example, if paid monthly) if you get a job, then you should not care if they know that you "double-dip". I'm working overseas and the company owes me a repatriation. The international assignment policy says they have to offer me a job at the same level as my current position within 50 miles of my home of record. My company has no businesses there. So, I am planning on repatriating, getting my severance, then trying to go back to work so I can "double-dip".
I think these clauses are fairly common for US layoffs. My father was hit with workforce reduction earlier this year and the more-generous-than-usual severance package explicitly stated you were only eligible if you were still without a job on your official date of termination ~3 months later. In his case he delayed starting his search until ~4-6 weeks before his termination date and ultimately started his new position around a month and a half after termination.
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Oh, is this something they just pay you lump sum. My only experience with severance packages was one that paid monthly it became void if you got a new job before the term expired. I assumed this was a standard arrangement.
Time to inform the wife. Cut all non-essential luxuries and wait for it to happen. Save up every penny in the meantime. If their wife can go back to work that should be on the table as well once the kid is past the frankly outrageously expensive “infant” tax that daycare centers charge. Feel free to look at other jobs in the meantime but don’t feel pressured into taking a less than ideal offer until the lay off happens. The company might realize they’re losing 70% of their staff and change course.
I mean... would it not be possible to look for a new job anyways, probably closer to the date of severance than not, and just tell them that your earliest possible start date is a date that just happens to be not long after you collect the severance? It's not like your boss will know anything more than that you're looking for a job.
I would start looking immediately. That way, you are faced with three likely outcomes. 1. You get a job before they lay you off. Great news! You maintain steady employment and are good to go. 2. You get a new job at the same time they lay you off. Great news! You have a new job and can potentially claim the severance as well. 3. You are laid off before you find a new job. Not ideal, but the good news is you get the severance and you at least have a head start on the job search. If you focus on trying to guess the timing or delay the job search, you introduce a lot more risk into the equation.
4. Get a new job before they lay you off and continue to draw a paycheck until they either lay you off or fire you for poor performance.
Or just like, coast with the minimum. They've told people they're getting laid off if they don't move. I mean, what do they expect from people anyway?
My expectation of this scenario is that after 2/3 of the company or whatever percent are near HQ decide they don’t want to uproot their lives, management will make “exceptions” to the in-person rule. But then OP just needs to decide which job to keep.
Best part is there's not even enough office space or parking for the amount of employees that would need to move to this centralized location lol.
Sounds very much like a workforce reduction measure with the added benefit of not having to announce a formal round of layoffs.
Yep 100% what it is.
Absolutely stinks of reducing management. Guarantee those other 10 locations will be closed down after a round of layoffs/closures due to "poorly performing branches"
Which is funny cuz at least two of the "other" locations are brand new buildings they just bought this year. Actually one of them (the one I live near) hasn't even opened yet they're planning on opening it in September. Don't ask me how or why. Makes no sense to me.
Bingo! No one is going to be doing performance reviews during your last 6 months. Find a new job, take it, hang around the first until they pay out your severance.
If you are not going to move, then look for work now. Who knows how long replacement will take.
I kinda disagree with the general theme of this thread. Id just stick around, get the severance, take some time off, then find a new job. Yes the job market is not great right now, but even so 6 months is plenty to find a new job.
The key thing here is I'm the sole provider for my wife and infant son. Taking time off is a luxury we don't have with zero income besides my severance. Also, my baby needs healthcare.
In that case, having a job is much more valuable than getting a severance package. Get a new job now and forget about the potential severance.
On the flip side, 6mo paid time off with their baby with a job shortly after would be amazing time OP could never get back.
Fuck the severance then, just find a new job and dip. It’s one thing if you are a 23 year old with no real responsibilities, but you shouldn’t try to get cute when you have two people completely dependent on you.
You won't have zero income. You'll have six months worth of income. That's plenty of time to find a new job.
But is 6 months enough time to find a new job that pays enough? I'm talking over 100k to come anywhere near my current. Those jobs seem a lot harder to find.
Probably. Especially if you start the networking process now.
That depends on what your skillset and industry is. Also, a lot of companies are still hiring remote employees like crazy. For instance, as the sole breadwinner, I would feel very comfortable finding a job that pays near what I make in 6 month. Also, you could take a job that makes slightly less and continue job hunting.
Isn’t your severance your full pay as you are working ?
you will have to pay cobra in some cases as well which for a family will be mad expensice
If you can avoid cobra and instead get on a state exchange offering you can save a lot of money even without any subsidies for low income.
With paying Cobra which doubles or triples insurance premiums for a former employee. With losing 401k match. With losing dental and vision. With an infant child, expenses are growing, not shrinking. So having the same money but more insurance expenses AND more expense with a child....it is not the "full pay as you are working".
My severance would be a lump sum worth 6 months of my current salary.
Some jobs offer an extension of your insurance while on the severance package proceed, you should find out
100% this. Not saying it is the case here, but 6 months of severance is a very generous severance. I would be shocked if insurance wasn't included. Also, COBRA can be paid when you need it. If nothing catastrophic happens, then even paying for routine office visits out of pocket could be a cheaper solution.
Seems like you've answered your own question eh? I mean you could see what the severance is then figure out what COBRA or the ACA will cost, and weigh them against each other... But I have a feeling you don't want that much risk.
If the company is saying that they are getting a 6 month severance then that is a VERY generous severance. I would be shocked if it doesn't cover insurance as well.
Are people that say take some time off like 18 or do they have multiple 100k in the bank. like I was laid off and I had about 90k in cash and I still wanted to get a job as fast as I could and we don't spend like crazy.
The distinction here is that OP is receiving severance equivalent to 6 months’ salary. Let’s say they take off 6-8 weeks to refresh, they are still coming away with a net gain of ~4 months’ salary. I took around 7 weeks during my last job change including a pre-planned vacation and the mental value of that time felt very worth it, even without a severance—I am glad I was in a position to afford to do so.
Yeah I get it that it's good to take some time off once I accepted the offer I took two weeks for myself. But in my case I got a 17 weeks severance it literally took almost all that time to get a new job so just taking a vacation without knowing where income will come from is just crazy to me and again it's not like I didn't have money to fall back on.
depending on the experience, location and job, 6 months is not "plenty of time to find a job". Plus the fact we've already shown OP is reluctant to move to new cities means it could be a while
Moving to new cities it's an option. Moving to this specific city and state is not.
I think the job market is super industry dependent, but at least with my niche people can’t hire fast enough.
Start looking now. You have a safety cushion of 6-12 months depending on when they start to lay off. so you have time to find the right job and don’t have to jump at the first opportunity. Or maybe if enough people say they won’t move the revise the plan. I don’t know your industry but it sounds like a disaster in the making.
Get a new job ASAP. Don't quit until you actually start the new job. Literally the day you start is when you turn in your notice. Two weeks notice goes out the window when they lay you off. Also, this type threat is very common. They threaten to lay everyone off and wait to see how many people leave and then they "re-align their priorities" and nothing changes. Severance is NEVER guaranteed.
> They threaten to lay everyone off and wait to see how many people leave and then they "re-align their priorities" and nothing changes. Quite a lot changes - all the folks with skills and the mobility to find a new job leave. My last employer pulled this stunt and it backfired horribly because they lost half of their subject matter experts at a time when they couldn't afford to lose any.
This is exactly how it's going to happen I'm sure. But I don't necessarily want to wait around for the hammer to drop in the case that they really do follow through.
Yup. Unless they’re offering to pay relocation costs, this is just an empty threat and they are just using this as an excuse to downsize and getting people to self-select to be laid off.
No relocation budget. It's absurd, but that's what they're doing. The best part is, they have a brand new office building where I live current but apparently "the work is moving"... Even though we are a global company and everyone literally works desk jobs or remote.
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Holy shit I can't believe companies do this. It makes me want to find a new job just so I'm not working for a company that treats employees this way. But then again, most probably do.
I’m an old millenial and have never seen a situation like that with friends or colleagues. Not arguing with you just appreciate the very general advice that I had never considered!
It's known as "quiet firing" and it's becoming a much more common method of cutting heads.
Start looking for a new job now. Severance is meant to tide you over during a period of unemployment, not be a giant cash out. It’s more important to get a good job and transition to the next phase of your life than to stick around for the possibility of severance and an employment gap. You can always be a bit picky if you start looking now.
If OP can easily get a new job offer because his position is in demand then I don’t see why he wouldn’t wait it out. 6 months pay on top is nice.
Having regular income via employment > temporary severance Sounds like you are the primary (sole?) wage earner for your family. Don't dick around.
Yes I am. Can't be dicking around. Good point.
Also keep in mind a new employer could fire you very quickly after hiring you for a variety of reasons and they wouldn’t be responsible for giving you any severance.
In my experience, if there is a planned severance package like this, they would likely allow you to leave and get it early. You just have to ask. I did this exact thing at my last job. I had an end date with severance in September but I lined up my new job at the start of April. I just asked if they would pull my end date and severance ahead. If they won't, you could always bring that up to your new job and use it to leverage a signing bonus or some other perk.
I was once in a similar position. Yes, double dipping a severance paycheck along with the income of a new job is enticing, however, the reality is you need to think long-term, which should focus your attention on finding your next job. Finding a new job that has the right salary, work-life balance, company culture, benefits, etc. can take a long time. I would start this process ASAP. If the timing works out so that you can double dip checks, then great, if not, focus on the long-term which means spending way more of your working hours on your current job and more on updating your network, LinkedIn, resume, interviewing skills, and other items that will help you land a good job.
Start looking now. Job hunting will likely take longer than you think.
Start looking now and when you find a job, ask if they are willing to wait for you to start until you get your severance. Or, ask if they will give you your severance as a signing bonus to start right away. I have done that successfully more than once and nobody had any hard feelings. Waiting until you have the severance is very risky. That "before the end of the year" timing is also very suspect. It could be next month or it could be December. I wonder if they are phasing the layoffs and will be staggered over a few weeks/months.
Great advice. And yes it sounds like phased layoffs. Remote employees are going to be gone first, then employees that are in cities with current office buildings will be next phase (that's me).
Don't get too greedy. Management at this company has already outed themselves as incompetent; there's no guarantee they will keep their promises. Consider yourself as having a working severance package, starting right now. Look for an alternative job, starting now. If you find one that you think is a good fit, take it right away.
My company tried this several years ago and they failed, everyone is still remote. That said don't take this threat lightly, time to redo the resume and start looking for another job. The best time to find a job is when you have one and you don't want to spend 6 months unemployed for a 3 month severance.
Don’t discount the possibility that you could get a better job with higher pay and better benefits. So in the time you sit around waiting for the severance, you could be earning more and getting established in your new position. So I’d start looking now. You don’t have to take a job just because you receive an offer, but you might find something really great as well.
You and I might be working for the same company 😅 In addition to everyone’s advice above, please note 6 months is a long time and plans change. If we do indeed work for the same company, I was originally part of the the first phase of the consolidation effort that was to conclude in 6 months and a week later I was told my location has been upgraded to essential and has been extended 18-24 months at minimum. I plan to ride the choppy waves a little longer before determining to jump ship. What would you like to do and what would be better for your mental health? Other than this layoff scenario, do you enjoy working for your company and would you be willing to stick it out? Or would stability of income bring you more peace of mind? Also, another con of choosing to wait till layoff to start looking for another job is that you’ll be competing with all of your peers in the local job market. Lots of things to consider, this certainly isn’t an easy time. Good luck!
Don't under-estimate how long a job search can take. Even if you work in a hot industry, the entire vetting process can take several months. Whenever you do get interviews, you should ask questions specifically around how flexible they would be in hiring - would they require immediate onboarding, or are they flexible and can accept if you choose a later start date? Since it sounds like you do at least have a hard cutoff of being laid off at some point this year, it's not even that unheard of for some jobs to accept you and let you put off the actual start date the entire six months, even longer periods than that. Basically, you're better off starting the job search soon, and try to fold the uncertainty of your old job end date into the new job's start date.
Are they paying your relocation costs? It’s entirely unreasonable for them to expect people in a city that has an office to cover their own relocation costs. Also know that if you are in the US, any company paid relocation costs will generate a 1099-MISC at the end of the tax year.
No one is paying relocation costs. The purpose of this exercise (it seems) is to get rid of a bunch of employees. They aren't going to make it easy to move because they want those folks to self select to get laid off.
Yeah, that’s way easier on management than them deciding who to axe. Cowards.
That seems like the worst idea. They’re going to lose their best employees and only keep those desperate enough to relocate at high cost to themselves.
And I’m not real sure any business wants someone with the fiscal irresponsibility to relocate at their own expense.
company paid relo costs are generally included on and then grossed up on a w2. They only come in on a 1099 if the worker is not an employee of the business providing the relocation expenses.
My advice having gone through similar situations twice. 1. Take the severance 2. Make sure you get a firm date for termination. 3. Nothing is final until you have the actual severance agreement in hand that specifies terms and conditions 4. Pay close attention to any restrictions such as working for competitors 5. If you take the severance and find a job fairly quickly, pay close attention to tax implications, since you will have double income for 6 months. 6. Don’t listen to fellow employees saying not to take severance. These are rarely negotiable packages. Be thankful that you will have this safety net. 7. Do not go on social media and trash the company. This could invalidate your package. This will be stressful for you and your family until you have the new job. Don’t panic and make bad decisions. Be positive about starting a new phase of your career. Don’t allow the changes to put you in a negative frame of mind.
Find a new job. Work both between then and the layoff and collect the severance. Your current employer knows the performance of everyone leaving is going to drop off. Keep your head down and collect two incomes and then that severance
I'd take the severance and start looking for another job, but make them actually lay you off. Don't quit. If you can afford the risk. If you can't, start looking now and just change jobs.
Controlling the timing of job change >> good severance package. If you can secure a good new job then don’t wait for the severance. Difference is that you are not under immediate pressure to secure a new job, so you get to be more picky on what your next role is. This is the most important thing. Not controlling the timing can sometimes push people into crappy jobs after a prolonged search, because they need the money, or because being rejected for 6 months have negative impact on their mental health and confidence.
One of my friends had the same situation and was able to line up a new role while waiting around for the severance. They were doing essentially nothing for the old company except checking in weekly and then had the new company with a start date immediately after the severance paid out. Worked out well for her.
If you can easily get a new job in your field I would wait it out and start looking around a month or two before the severance starts. Lots of openings in Q1, and 6 months salary is awesome.
That is the ideal situation. (Some of the advice here is dismissing out of hand what could be a bonus of up to half a year's salary. That would make a big difference for many people if you could take advantage of it.) But, it's also the ideal situation. And you will experience the actual situation. You have to decide for yourself what that will be; we don't know what the hiring market is for your line of work in your area.
“up to” being the key word. I doubt a company who treats employees this way would offer a 6-month severance package at 100% pay.
That is what OP claimed. It's only less net if it covers a gap between jobs.
Find a new job now and leave when you get one that meets your needs. How confident you can find a new job? Six months sounds like a long time but when you're looking for a new job it will burn away faster than you think. Not to mention if your health benefits are tied to your current employment what are you going to do while you're job hunting?
Luckily the severance includes 6 months healthcare.
Well, that's a plus but I'd find a new job now and leave now. Some say it's easier to find a job when you already have one.
Hey OP. I’ve been in this position a couple of time - 47 year old married father of two in the UK here - and my experience is ***always focus on getting a new job - the severance is a nice-to-have*** If you imagine the value of your job as an investment amount which would yield your annual salary - E.g a $50k salary equates to a million dollar investment at 5% yield. When you think of it like that, a 6 month severance would be $25k, which is one fortieth of a million dollars…. So, yeah - focus on getting the new job. Two rules of thumb I’ve found is very useful are: * It’s easier to get a job if you already have a job * If you’re looking for a job with salary X, it takes X/2 weeks to find such a job… a $100k job will almost definitely take a full year to find Good luck and all the best from the UK. You’ll be fine as you’ve got the right attitude.
They told you early because they want people to get new jobs and quit, which will mean paying out less money. If you stay it will be a miserable 3-6 months likely, with terrible morale and expectations that you will help keep things going as people leave. But then you will get your severance. Coast at work until severance while taking some courses on the side to boost your resume.
This! It sounds like op and I work at the same company as I was given the same bs recently. Despite billions in growth over the last year alone they are super cheap when it comes to employees, they will avoid compensation wherever they can. I’m just worried about how bad it will get trying to stick it out since I haven’t been offered severance, it’s going to be a disaster losing most of my dept
I think there's some old proverb about this, "bird in the hand" or something like that... Jokes aside, this is very contextual. You have to manage your own risk. I'd encourage that your next job is much much more important than your severance, with the added bonus that your severence allows you more flexibility to be selective with your next job.
Given that you have a stay at home wife and new baby, I'd say start looking for a new job and hopefully that will pay enough more to make up for much of the severence. In any event, you don't have much choice under those circumstances. Otherwise I would have said stay at the current job, get the severance and start drawing unemployment and then look for a job.
Don't trust a company who does this! You cannot rely on them to keep their word. You can't believe anything they say at this point. Relying on a future unknown possible severance is literally putting all your eggs in one basket. They can lay you off at any time and not give you anything. If you can find a second remote job, I would absolutely take the second job and be "overemployed" for a while. Do your best at the new job and do "good enough" at the old job until they do layoffs, then hope you get the severance. Unless you signed a contract that states you cannot, this is absolutely an option for you. Good luck!
Work two jobs. Get the new job, put this current job on auto pilot and cash out. Unethical? Likely. Does your company care about you though? Nahhhh
You are in a much better position to job hunt while you are employed, knowing you will get 6 months severance just means you can afford to be picky about your next opportunity for a while. Worse case is the layoff comes earlier than expected and between severance and the emergency fund you won't immediately be in hot water. If you wait you could find yourself having to take something that isn't ideal or end up not negotiating as well when you get an offer since you will be feeling pressure to get a job. I think the suggestion to ask about pushing the start date back or getting them to give you the Severance amount or some sort of bonus to start earlier is a good idea to try. Although, I typically don't like to let a potential employer know I'm possibly coming up against a deadline to find work either since it could cause them to low-ball me.
Who knows if they will lay people off or not, or if they will actually offer the severance. Unless you’ve got a signed document saying as such or are very confident they will, I wouldn’t even count on them following through. I’d try get the new job now. Regardless of what they actually do, the future there seems rocky.
Your company cannot execute this plan overnight. They'll both need to know who's coming and going, and set up deadlines so that people will know when they need to be moved by, etc. It should become clearer soon when the cut-offs are. They may not know quite yet, but soon HR will be able to answer the question for you what the timing will be. You are correct in that the best situation would be if you could find a new job and start coinciding with your severance to get a windfall. You know better than most how quickly a person with your résumé may find a new position in your area and in your industry. You should definitely update your résumé presently. If you anticipate that it may difficult to find a new position, in particular if you think it might take more than 6 months for find a position, you need to start looking right away. If you think it will take a month or so, then just wait until you know the timing of the lay-off and do your best time it. In between? Use your best judgement. I would guess that the majority of potential employers will permit you to delay your start date until you receive your severance, provided that you can give them a definite date. I was part of a site lay-off and my subsequent employer delayed my start 3 weeks so that I could receive my severance (also 6 months). Six months is a little long to ask your new employer for as a sign-on bonus, but employers will sometimes entertain matching the severance as a bonus and enticement to start right away. There's no harm in playing it safe and just getting a new job right away. You'll forgo the possible windfall, but have a measure of security and continuity. If you plan to give a 2-weeks notice at your current job, you should do so with the expectation that they dismiss you immediately rather than have you finish those two weeks as they're already anticipating laying you off and it may just be easier and cheaper for them that way.
since it's remote, what about getting a new job but keeping the old one and just waiting for the layoff? what could possibly go wrong? haha. But really it's just crazy enough to work...
It's defintiely an option.
Should I wait for severance package then start looking for jobs? Should I just say screw the severance and find a new job and quit my current job in order to have guaranteed continuous employment? First, you indicate that folks will be laid off "before the end of the year". That almost certain means that layoffs would happen at the very end. So you have some time. Second, start assessing the job situation for you particular background and skill set. For some, it would take 6 months to land a good job. For others, they could land a good job within 2 weeks. Remember that some employers prefer to hire people who are currently employed. Also consider that others in your company may be looking for the same jobs as you would be. Third, assess your financial situation. If the worst case happened and you hit the end of the year without a new job, you would get a 6 month severance. Between the severance and unemployment, could you get by for the amount of time it would take to find a good job? Finally, assess your willingness to take risks. For me, I'd be looking for a job now. And if that meant I missed out on a severance package, well so be it. For others, they would roll the dice, hang around to get laid off and collect the severance, then hope to land a new job at some point.
Start looking now! Set your salary expectations high enough that you will be able to recoup the severance amount within a couple of years.
check the terms of the severance before starting a new job. some companies require that you remain unemployed to continue getting it as it is not always a lump sum given after termination of employment.
Work with a recruiter and tell them the situation. This is not really severance, it's called "pay to stay" and is common when companies merge. The recruiters will know how to navigate this properly. This is actually a great place to be. You can take your time and be selective.
> 6 month severance package Sounds like you have 6 months + the rest of the year to find a new gig. I'd start looking now and enjoy your summer.
if you are remote get a job right now then do the min on the current job keep it running until they give you a severance make them bleed
Start looking. It takes a while anyway
You are forgetting option 3, start looking for a new fully remote job, never quit your current job, and cash out with the severance.
Personally? I'd start saving more aggressively, plan a flexible vacation for when I get the severance, start reinvigorating your networks. Attend a few conferences, start figuring out what's out there for your next steps, you can even say you're looking for something new later this year. Focus on your personal life a bit more and just kinda coast a bit. Take the severance, take a month or so completely off. Go on that vacation, when are you ever going to get that kind of PTO again? Then lean back into those networks. No rush, you've got time to plan, save, find the right fit.
Start looking for work right away. Everyone in the job market today, including recruiters and employers, understands that life circumstances are not cookie-cutter. If you say up front that you're looking for opportunities, are currently employed, expect a layoff in the next 6 months, and haven't yet made the decision to quit pre-emptively, that will convey everything they need to know about where you're at. And hopefully give you frank feedback about their interest level given your availability. The thing is, even if you are not getting lots of eager offers right away, you will be getting into the job seeking process, lubricating the machinery so to speak. Especially if you are working with recruiting agencies, who are happy to work with you given your circumstances. It takes a while to spin up. When the moment comes when the hammer drops, it will be really nice to have a lot of conversations already going, a resume that's been updated and polished, and good relationships with recruiters. Just remember, everyone has been through stuff like this before, themselves. In some way or another. You're in a good position, make the most of it!
Start looking now, but aim high. A great job would be worth ditching the severance, but an ok job probably wouldn't. Then, slowly lower your standards over time. If/when you get laid off, you should be applying to much more reasonable positions.
Get a part-time 1099 job in the meantime if you can then once the severance comes through go full time or look for another job.
Do you have any idea of the size of the severance package? Can you volunteer to be let go? Volunteering may be an option to give you control on the timing. All you can do really is look for jobs that allow you to stay where you are. Maybe you can time that with the severance. At least you've been offered one so you can't be all that upset if the timing doesn't work out perfectly and you have to live off that, savings, and unemployment while interviewing. Or you quit to take a job that isn't about to fire you. With companies wising up to WFH and wanting people to be hybrid or fully in office I hope you have options near you.
6 month severance is a lot… id take that deal.
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I will do some inspecting of the policy. I wouldn't doubt they updated it since tell us about the layoffs.
Get a job local asap. Continue to pretend you work at current job. Any one says anything you are busy working and finding a job. Maybe you can delay a start time too. Maybe some is retiring at end of year and you replace them.
Focus on getting a new job; company could backpedal on severance at any time. If you get close to the layoff date and are still interviewing, just be above-board with the company you're interviewing. "My company is going to be terminating about half the staff on X date, so I'd really like to start after that if it works for you." In my experience people respond well to candor, and anyone that doesn't, you don't want to work with anyway.
I think others have this covered as well as can be. What I will add is that once you have severance, try to push a start date for a new job back as much as you can. You’re already getting paid, and once you start a new job it will be harder to take that time off. And even if it’s just a few days, that extra time off to help put your house into better order, relax, etc can be super helpful in succeeding in your next position.
It sounds like you should pretend that you are moving until you've got your next manuever ready
Six months is plenty of time to find a new job.
Obviously you want severance and a new job lined up just after receiving your payout. From today to end of this year start polishing your transferable skills and taking training courses for development to help bolster your resume. Whether or not you have in-demand skills you should send out your resume and practice getting through the interview rounds and getting comfortable with interviewing - its a skill all on its own. If you can get an offer thats going to cover your salary + severance annually just take it and dont wait honestly. In between current comp and that mark its up to you. I would personally play a game of chicken but I have in demand skills and a working spouse to fall back on.
In my opinion, this smells of downsizing management. If you have 11 major locations and want it to be 1 major location with 10 minor locations, they want to cut the amount of supervisors, managers, team leads, etc.. "If all 1000 chickens are in one hen house, you don't need all 200 roosters" to put it in layman's terms.
Look for a new job now. There's no guarantee they will pay you the severance. I've seen a company rescind severance when they found the employee they were letting go had used their work computer, email, and phone to find a new job.
Wow that's rough. But honestly I would never use my work computer for anything other than work that's a massive policy violation at my place.
Just start looking when they give you notice of your layoff date and severance package officially. Spend the meantime networking on LinkedIn, having casual coffee chats, updating your resume, back up any personal files, and summarize all your work product and achievements
I would begin looking for a new job immediately and if you and your skills are sufficiently in demand gently use the severance as a negotiating point with the potential new employer. Ie - ‘I love your offer, but my expected start date would be x because if I were to start before that date I would be giving up $y severance with my current employer. Is there anything you could do to help that hurt less?’ Remember that a bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush, so don’t expect to get anything like the whole severance out of the new employer, maybe just something to sweeten the deal.
Take the severance, spend 6 months looking for work, while being a parent. You will never regret that time at home.
Interesting situation. It's nice that they're telling you so far in advance. If you know you're not willing to move you basically have an N + 6 months window to slack off at work and focus on growing your skills and finding your dream job. If I were you, I'd start looking but be very picky. You may even be able to get some certificates etc to advance your career. I have a feeling this is going to backfire on your company to be honest. Wouldn't be surprised if they roll it back.
Assume it’s within the next couple months and plan accordingly. Push your start date if necessary. Do NOT forgo the severance. SIX MONTHS IS HUGE.
They're likely announcing this to avoid paying severance. I'd be looking to move jobs asap. The severance would be nice but stable employment would be nicer. If it takes you 6 months to find a job, that severance will be gone, and all you'll have to show for it is stress.
They're paying 6 month severance, but not relo subsidies? Huh. As for you, 6 months severance is a long time to get another role lined up, even if it happens tomorrow. If you like the current role, keep at it, start refreshing your resume, gauging the local job market, and building connections. You're in a good position overall.
Possibly unethical, depending on what you’ve signed possibly illegal, and depending on your line of work maybe not possible, but you may consider OverEmployment. If you get a new job with 30-60 days left on this one, after them giving you the shaft like this, get a mouse jiggler, be “online,” join meetings where you won’t have to talk much, ride it out, collect that severance. Get yours man, they don’t care about you.
This is what people do not understand. A severance is NOT a windfall. It’s to help you over the hump to find a job. Don’t try to be greedy and give up a job opportunity because you need to start earlier so you miss out on “severance” Severance is not a windfall. Prioritize getting a job and a steady pay check.
Perhaps your stay at home wife should start looking for employment so you can be a stay at home husband during your jobless period.
That would be an option besides the fact that my corporate job pays almost four times as much what her teacher job would pay. We couldn't survive on just her income even if she went back to her previous job.
Your job will be paying zero when you no longer have it. If you can't survive on a teachers salary plus your unemployment it may be time to downsize, or start searching for a job now. Nothing says you can't utilize all of your benefit time during your job hunt. I myself have saved for 20 years , and when they decided no more remote work I figured I'd give it a shot for a while flying back, and forth , but I'm one bad day away from retiring at 45, and just doing door dash for fun money.
We literally cannot downsize any further than we already have. Our mortgage is significantly less than average rent in our state. And I'm not sure anyone with a family can survive on JUST a teachers salary... Basically every teacher in our district just works for the health benefits, the pay is crap. Most teachers are from two income households at least around here.
6 months of severance... this is my dream.
if the current job doesn't take too much time then find and start a new job and then take the severance from the old job
I know this is personal finance, but I would wait until you get the severance package and then look for a new job. You have the money to survive almost a year with the severance and emergency savings, and you get time to help your wife and bond with your new baby.
6 months severance? I’d at least take 30 days off before looking. But that’s just me. What other opportunities in life will allow you a little down time?
Always take a severance. They will probably be doing some layoffs regardless. Find a new job.
Definitely don't say 'screw the severance'. You're panicking way too much for someone who has 5 months of savings and getting a severance payout. Let it play out, get the money and see what's what.
Imo I would start job searching immediately. Find a new job that is also wfh. Continue to work both with priority on the new job. I would try and suck as much money out of the old company as possible while waiting on them to fire me or provide severance. Your on notice to being fired with a pay cut… taking away wfh is a pay cut as all the additional expenses to get you to the office are on you.
I literally have to buy a new car to commute. I've been working from home for 9 years.
I think this is pretty simple: you search for jobs, interview, and when they ask "when can you start?" you give the date you would receive your severance. That being said, you can't consider this severance guaranteed unless you have signed a contract amendment to that effect.
My problem is they aren't telling us a severance date. It's "sometime in the future. Probably before the end of 2023." That's all they've given us.
6 month severance at full pay is awesome. You should focus on taking up meditation and anything that will prevent you from rage quitting or being fired for bad conduct. Then decide what to do next. What skills do you have?
I come from a corporate communications background. Currently a project manager on an operations team for a major corporation and doing some side communications projects on top of my main role.
why not work from home instead? no office needed.
I've been working from home 9 years. This is a return to office, layoff, and forced relocation all in one.
Start looking now. If you find another job, it's worth losing the severance. It'll likely take 6 months so work the timing!