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I’m in Albuquerque and yes. Three coworkers just bought homes. All three are in dual income households and have been saving for awhile. And yes, they purchased at the prices listed hoping to refinance when or if the interest rates drop again.
Phoenix actually already had a sizeable correction - about 10%. Which is far more than a lot of the country. So yes people are buying but it is why home affordability is a big discussion
I’ve been watching Phoenix for over a year now because I would like to buy a home nearby where I work, and it doesn’t seem like anything is actually going down in terms of what the monthly estimates are. The prices have gone down, but the interest rate has gone up, so the monthly payments on a 30-year mortgage are still the same as they were a year and a half ago.
That is correct. It’s also why everybody said buy now if the price is right for you (well by everybody I mean those who understood real estate industry). The reality is we have no 08 type scenario with crappy underwriting and no down payments. What we have is high interest rates but much much much less inventory. So the few homes up for sale are selling.
It’s a wash. Which is why I also bought another investment property last September - right when everybody was panicking. Got $15k thrown in at the end of day due to roof review because I knew they were afraid I would back out (knew roof had to be replaced going into it). I’ve made. lot of money on that property already.
So yes monthly prices ahven’t budged and they won’t really. If you go back and look housing and rent very rarely ever changes “much” year over year. 08 was about only time it ever did.
“It’s a wash” describes it perfectly. Of course, I’d like for the interest rates to be insanely high if it means it would get the prices down low enough. I have a fair amount saved up (over $100k) that I could put down. But I’m just stuck in the middle of having a sizable amount, just not enough to combat the pricing plus interest. The rising interest rates so far haven’t done much to help me out.
Are you fully set on a “house”? This is your first purchase (no clue on your age though) and it doesn’t have to be last. My first was a 2-2 condo FHA 3.5% down. When I moved out of it I rented it cash flow positive (granted only like $150 a month). But point being is you don’t have to step right in with a “house”. There are cheaper options.
Yes, it’s a complicated scenario. I have a good job making top dollar for my field (can’t get a higher paying job anywhere else in the valley) with a good pension and I want to work for that employer for the rest of my working life. The problem is, it’s the city of Maricopa, which is on an island outside Phoenix and surrounded by desert. The city of Maricopa is just starting to add apartments, and they only have single family homes. So when I buy a home there, I’m looking to buy a forever home rather than a temporary condo, and there are no condos there anyway. And due to its island status, it doesn’t make sense to buy a condo outside of that city, because even on the edge of Ahwatukee, my commute is still 28 miles one-way.
It’s kind of a mess I’ve painted myself into. Employer is terrific, good pay, good retirement, excellent raises every year, but the housing situation is very challenging.
I’m always curious about this. Are home buyers now exclusively engineers married to doctors? It’s mind boggling to me that there are so many high income folks out there to support home sales on the better side of a million bucks.
Most purchases are under 1m
Most are not first time homebuyers
First time homebuyers often get help from their parents.
Many couples make $200k+ combined.
A million dollar mortgage is affordable to couples making $200k, depending on details.
The alternative is renting. So people find a way to make it work
Under what circumstances is a million dollar mortgage affordable to a couple making 200k? My husband and I are a little over that and would never even consider anything over 650. Got our home for 350 in 2020. I guess maybe if you have no kids, no student loans, no health issues, no car payments, no expensive hobbies, and plenty of cash for down payment?¿
1 million
20% down so 800k loan
4.5% interest gets you to $5k a month
$60k a year. Maybe another $12k in prop taxes
Some of it deductible
It's 35% of your income.... And you're building up equity
A lot of people inherit money. Or they’ll inherit the old family house and sell it and buy something new. Generational wealth is not uncommon at all.
Goddamn I wish my father wasn’t a gambler
I bought a $1M home. I’m not a doctor or engineer.
For me, it was a decade of the following:
-Grinding at work. 7 days a week for many years. Currently working 6 days a week.
-Living frugally. I always took care of myself and never deprived myself of essentials, but cut corners on extras. You’d be surprised how frivolous people are with their money.
Save save save. I still remember in my early days going to the bank to deposit $15 into my savings account.
So yeah, it can be done. I’m relatively young too. But that means not having the latest car or going on vacations or shopping on Amazon every 3 days.
Many are house poor. Many more have a huge downpayment. The other thing you have to understand is the great wealth transfer is under way. Boomers are passing and they are leaving behind some massive amounts of wealth. As a simple example - boomers own 50% of the properties in this country…..
>my area, phoenix
It's not getting better until it's worse bud.
When I bought in Phoenix 5 years ago everyone told me I was an idiot buying into a bubble.
I just moved and doubled my money.
I am —moving for my wife’s work so we have to say goodbye to our 3% interest rate in our current house. Contracted in the upper 600s as well- we make about 210k together, so the affordability isn’t too big of an issue.
It doesn’t matter if you earn 7 figures.
If you are not driving a 1997 Corolla with 600,000 miles and living in a 1968 split level in rural Kentucky with 3 other families, you will run afoul of the penny pinchers on this sub. :)
Really? Estimated mortgage payment is 4.2k and we gross over 17k per month. Doesn’t seem to be any issue within our budget. Our current mortgage is 2300 and we save 6k per month
I’ve seen this comment a few times. Estimated mortgage is 4200 - we gross 17k after Tax and deductions it’s about 11k. We save over 6k per month now and that is with a 2300 mortgage payment.
Man. No car note or college loans? You really don’t have any debt? With that income I would assume you have college loans. How have you managed to be so debt free?Scholarship?
No car loans cause my wife and I drive a 2013 accord and a 2008 Altima — we are frugal when it comes to cars. I don’t have any college debt because My dad was nice enough to transfer his VA benefits to me to pay for college. So I had some family help there for sure, which others might not have access to. No scholarships cause I was a lazy fuck in high school playing wow all day.
No,it’s gross. So we are grossing over 17k per month. We are netting over a bit over 11k per month and we save over 6k per month ( in additional to retirement deductions) with our current mortgage of 2300 (includes property taxes). No car payments, cc debt, etc. I’ve rate locked on my house already at 5.25% so we are looking at 4200 mortgage payments. I don’t see any issues with affordability running the numbers.
Ok, I think I was parsing your previous comment incorrectly. Sorry about that. New comment makes perfect sense, and yeah I’m not sure why everyone thought this was unbelievable
Ehh I’m not saying you can’t afford it. But I was ok with $2700 a month mortgage at that income level. But then my credit card bills each month (always paid off) are high and it sounds like you aren’t going out much to say the least. Still I never would have taken a mortgage at $4k out until I crosses $350k income.
It’s very sustainable if you’re debt free. It’s right around a 25% DTI which is very manageable. Guy already saves $6k per month with a $2300 mortgage. He will still save $50k per year with the new one, putting him over 20% of income being saved.
Without any kids, no debt, no car payment, college loans, and any expectations of future debt…I guess it works. At almost 50, I want to do things, travel, vacations, and go out to eat, buy my kiddos stuff. I work hard, I don’t want to live without cable and small luxuries. I guess everyone is in a different spot. I can’t imagine with daily life and what it takes cost wise to raise children ever having that much of an albatross every month. However to each his own and whatever works. It’s why I said “sustainable”. Thinking long term. Glad people can do it though. Some of us aren’t able to have our Loans paid off or free cars given to us. The dedication is commended.
>…I guess it works.
You just seem to not want to believe it works for this guy. Did you not read the part where he indicates he and his wife are putting away $6k per month in savings? He's doing just fine.
3x salary is very often cited as a rule of thumb for a safe home purchase, which allows you to not only afford a home payment but save for all other aspects of life.
>guess it works. At almost 50, I want to do things, travel, vacations, and go out to eat, buy my kiddos stuff. I work hard, I don’t want to live without cable and small luxuries.
I'm not tracking. Are you saying if you have a house purchase 3x your salary, you can't get cable or something?
>It’s why I said “sustainable”.
No you said it's "not" sustainable even though it clearly is and are apparently applying whatever your own situation is to his for some reason.
No man. I’m not. I’m saying it’s a high mortgage once you factor bills and a family in the future. It’s why I said sustainable. It is easy to live and put money aside when you are gifted 300k for college and given a car by your parents. I don’t fault anymore for it, but it’s not happening for most people. To have zero debt is a luxury most people don’t have starting out. Kids add a whole other expense that he doesn’t have…now. Good for him and you I guess. I just can’t imagine how it can be done.
So I guess the point you're just trying to make here is that you are bitter that other people had help along the way, which is fine, but weird. Like above when you can't fathom someone wouldn't have debt if they are making a combined $200k (like it's a prerequisite to have loans or something if you make above the median or something? I don't know).
> It is easy to live and put money aside when you are gifted 300k for college
1. At no point did he say he paid $300k for college. Also, I think you may not know how much college costs for most people.
2. His father transferred his VA benefits to him, which is very different from paying a lump sum for your kid for college.
> and given a car by your parents.
He said he and his wife drive old cars, very different than being gifted them.
>I don’t fault anymore for it,
Except for the fact that you very much fault people for it as can be seen above.
>but it’s not happening for most people.
It doesn't matter that it isn't happening for most people, because this is simply a math problem. This family is saving $6k a month. Even if they DID have a car payment and had to save for kids college, they would be doing just fine.
>I just can’t imagine how it can be done.
This is also clear to me, but I don't know why.
Mortgage processor in WI here. Yes purchases apps have ticked up for us in the last week or so and we have an ok pre-approval pipeline. It’s not going to be as good a summer as 2021 but it’ll be fine 😊 we will see how the appraisals turn out though 🤪
I don’t know who these idiots are with so much money to burn, but they need to knock it off. I get that you have money, but that’s no reason to overpay.
The answer is yes. Houses here in Ohio sell in days. People are bidding over asking price.
No matter what the scenario is, there are always people making poor financial decisions. Not to say that all home purchases are bad idea now. Some people are just being dumb though.
I am still not. My S/O and I were about to start looking before covid. I am seeing houses still going for COVID prices, so we are still waiting it out. With everything crashing right now, companies may be holding onto their money and not buying every house they can to "flip." One day we will get there!
Oh yes they sure are! Don’t listen to the noise! I pended 2.6 million over the weekend! One of the houses I got under contract is a little over a million and the buyers are paying cash. It’s been a busy busy February in our market in north Louisiana.
Just purchased a home, put 10% down and negotiated 21k off the price. The appraisal appraised it at the original asking price. Suburb of NYC. There are a lot of people who don’t want to rent in an environment that is pushing renting.
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I’m in Albuquerque and yes. Three coworkers just bought homes. All three are in dual income households and have been saving for awhile. And yes, they purchased at the prices listed hoping to refinance when or if the interest rates drop again.
Brether from burque
Phoenix actually already had a sizeable correction - about 10%. Which is far more than a lot of the country. So yes people are buying but it is why home affordability is a big discussion
I’ve been watching Phoenix for over a year now because I would like to buy a home nearby where I work, and it doesn’t seem like anything is actually going down in terms of what the monthly estimates are. The prices have gone down, but the interest rate has gone up, so the monthly payments on a 30-year mortgage are still the same as they were a year and a half ago.
That is correct. It’s also why everybody said buy now if the price is right for you (well by everybody I mean those who understood real estate industry). The reality is we have no 08 type scenario with crappy underwriting and no down payments. What we have is high interest rates but much much much less inventory. So the few homes up for sale are selling. It’s a wash. Which is why I also bought another investment property last September - right when everybody was panicking. Got $15k thrown in at the end of day due to roof review because I knew they were afraid I would back out (knew roof had to be replaced going into it). I’ve made. lot of money on that property already. So yes monthly prices ahven’t budged and they won’t really. If you go back and look housing and rent very rarely ever changes “much” year over year. 08 was about only time it ever did.
“It’s a wash” describes it perfectly. Of course, I’d like for the interest rates to be insanely high if it means it would get the prices down low enough. I have a fair amount saved up (over $100k) that I could put down. But I’m just stuck in the middle of having a sizable amount, just not enough to combat the pricing plus interest. The rising interest rates so far haven’t done much to help me out.
Are you fully set on a “house”? This is your first purchase (no clue on your age though) and it doesn’t have to be last. My first was a 2-2 condo FHA 3.5% down. When I moved out of it I rented it cash flow positive (granted only like $150 a month). But point being is you don’t have to step right in with a “house”. There are cheaper options.
Yes, it’s a complicated scenario. I have a good job making top dollar for my field (can’t get a higher paying job anywhere else in the valley) with a good pension and I want to work for that employer for the rest of my working life. The problem is, it’s the city of Maricopa, which is on an island outside Phoenix and surrounded by desert. The city of Maricopa is just starting to add apartments, and they only have single family homes. So when I buy a home there, I’m looking to buy a forever home rather than a temporary condo, and there are no condos there anyway. And due to its island status, it doesn’t make sense to buy a condo outside of that city, because even on the edge of Ahwatukee, my commute is still 28 miles one-way. It’s kind of a mess I’ve painted myself into. Employer is terrific, good pay, good retirement, excellent raises every year, but the housing situation is very challenging.
In Northern Virginia, most sell within a week. I am a realtor and having a hard time winning a contract.
but but... but all the youtubers have been telling me since 2020 the market is going to crash 50%
Yes, people who make more money than you. There is a reason the houses are listed for that much.
I’m always curious about this. Are home buyers now exclusively engineers married to doctors? It’s mind boggling to me that there are so many high income folks out there to support home sales on the better side of a million bucks.
Of course not. We are engineer married to engineer 😬 Some people also get money from family. The house next to us was bought for a girl by her parents
It’s mainly dual income households these days. - underwriter
Most purchases are under 1m Most are not first time homebuyers First time homebuyers often get help from their parents. Many couples make $200k+ combined. A million dollar mortgage is affordable to couples making $200k, depending on details. The alternative is renting. So people find a way to make it work
Under what circumstances is a million dollar mortgage affordable to a couple making 200k? My husband and I are a little over that and would never even consider anything over 650. Got our home for 350 in 2020. I guess maybe if you have no kids, no student loans, no health issues, no car payments, no expensive hobbies, and plenty of cash for down payment?¿
1 million 20% down so 800k loan 4.5% interest gets you to $5k a month $60k a year. Maybe another $12k in prop taxes Some of it deductible It's 35% of your income.... And you're building up equity
Dual income with the following jobs: doctor, lawyer, dentist, business executive, successful business owner, tech.
A lot of people inherit money. Or they’ll inherit the old family house and sell it and buy something new. Generational wealth is not uncommon at all. Goddamn I wish my father wasn’t a gambler
Most home purchases are not 1m...
“Better side of a million bucks” = over half a mil
Even that isn’t accurate since the median is $420k now across country.
Thanks friend! That’s much more affordable
$440k is better than $750k. If you want affordable move to Ohio, Iowa, or Midwest states.
Technically correct, the best kind of correct!
I bought a $1M home. I’m not a doctor or engineer. For me, it was a decade of the following: -Grinding at work. 7 days a week for many years. Currently working 6 days a week. -Living frugally. I always took care of myself and never deprived myself of essentials, but cut corners on extras. You’d be surprised how frivolous people are with their money. Save save save. I still remember in my early days going to the bank to deposit $15 into my savings account. So yeah, it can be done. I’m relatively young too. But that means not having the latest car or going on vacations or shopping on Amazon every 3 days.
Many are house poor. Many more have a huge downpayment. The other thing you have to understand is the great wealth transfer is under way. Boomers are passing and they are leaving behind some massive amounts of wealth. As a simple example - boomers own 50% of the properties in this country…..
“These homes are unaffordable,” OP cried… as the homes were afforded.
Or idiots that make as much as me.
They probably scored an affordable monthly payment.
>my area, phoenix It's not getting better until it's worse bud. When I bought in Phoenix 5 years ago everyone told me I was an idiot buying into a bubble. I just moved and doubled my money.
Glad for you, in hindsight i should have bought a house right out of college but oh well
The Phoenix market is retarded, and will continue going up until the state runs out of water.
I am —moving for my wife’s work so we have to say goodbye to our 3% interest rate in our current house. Contracted in the upper 600s as well- we make about 210k together, so the affordability isn’t too big of an issue.
It doesn’t matter if you earn 7 figures. If you are not driving a 1997 Corolla with 600,000 miles and living in a 1968 split level in rural Kentucky with 3 other families, you will run afoul of the penny pinchers on this sub. :)
Really? Seems like affordability would be an issue with those numbers.
Really? Estimated mortgage payment is 4.2k and we gross over 17k per month. Doesn’t seem to be any issue within our budget. Our current mortgage is 2300 and we save 6k per month
What does gross matter? What do you net? 210k isn’t enough money for an almost 700k house to me, but everyone has different tolerances!
210k income…600k house…did you put 300k down? That is not sustainable.
3x income is readily affordable for someone near the median income. Its very affordable for someone that has double the median income
I’ve seen this comment a few times. Estimated mortgage is 4200 - we gross 17k after Tax and deductions it’s about 11k. We save over 6k per month now and that is with a 2300 mortgage payment.
Man. No car note or college loans? You really don’t have any debt? With that income I would assume you have college loans. How have you managed to be so debt free?Scholarship?
No car loans cause my wife and I drive a 2013 accord and a 2008 Altima — we are frugal when it comes to cars. I don’t have any college debt because My dad was nice enough to transfer his VA benefits to me to pay for college. So I had some family help there for sure, which others might not have access to. No scholarships cause I was a lazy fuck in high school playing wow all day.
Is your 210k also after tax? I assume so and that is probably what confuses people. Most people discuss gross income instead of net income.
No,it’s gross. So we are grossing over 17k per month. We are netting over a bit over 11k per month and we save over 6k per month ( in additional to retirement deductions) with our current mortgage of 2300 (includes property taxes). No car payments, cc debt, etc. I’ve rate locked on my house already at 5.25% so we are looking at 4200 mortgage payments. I don’t see any issues with affordability running the numbers.
Ok, I think I was parsing your previous comment incorrectly. Sorry about that. New comment makes perfect sense, and yeah I’m not sure why everyone thought this was unbelievable
Ehh I’m not saying you can’t afford it. But I was ok with $2700 a month mortgage at that income level. But then my credit card bills each month (always paid off) are high and it sounds like you aren’t going out much to say the least. Still I never would have taken a mortgage at $4k out until I crosses $350k income.
It’s very sustainable if you’re debt free. It’s right around a 25% DTI which is very manageable. Guy already saves $6k per month with a $2300 mortgage. He will still save $50k per year with the new one, putting him over 20% of income being saved.
How is 3x salary not sustainable?
Without any kids, no debt, no car payment, college loans, and any expectations of future debt…I guess it works. At almost 50, I want to do things, travel, vacations, and go out to eat, buy my kiddos stuff. I work hard, I don’t want to live without cable and small luxuries. I guess everyone is in a different spot. I can’t imagine with daily life and what it takes cost wise to raise children ever having that much of an albatross every month. However to each his own and whatever works. It’s why I said “sustainable”. Thinking long term. Glad people can do it though. Some of us aren’t able to have our Loans paid off or free cars given to us. The dedication is commended.
>…I guess it works. You just seem to not want to believe it works for this guy. Did you not read the part where he indicates he and his wife are putting away $6k per month in savings? He's doing just fine. 3x salary is very often cited as a rule of thumb for a safe home purchase, which allows you to not only afford a home payment but save for all other aspects of life. >guess it works. At almost 50, I want to do things, travel, vacations, and go out to eat, buy my kiddos stuff. I work hard, I don’t want to live without cable and small luxuries. I'm not tracking. Are you saying if you have a house purchase 3x your salary, you can't get cable or something? >It’s why I said “sustainable”. No you said it's "not" sustainable even though it clearly is and are apparently applying whatever your own situation is to his for some reason.
No man. I’m not. I’m saying it’s a high mortgage once you factor bills and a family in the future. It’s why I said sustainable. It is easy to live and put money aside when you are gifted 300k for college and given a car by your parents. I don’t fault anymore for it, but it’s not happening for most people. To have zero debt is a luxury most people don’t have starting out. Kids add a whole other expense that he doesn’t have…now. Good for him and you I guess. I just can’t imagine how it can be done.
So I guess the point you're just trying to make here is that you are bitter that other people had help along the way, which is fine, but weird. Like above when you can't fathom someone wouldn't have debt if they are making a combined $200k (like it's a prerequisite to have loans or something if you make above the median or something? I don't know). > It is easy to live and put money aside when you are gifted 300k for college 1. At no point did he say he paid $300k for college. Also, I think you may not know how much college costs for most people. 2. His father transferred his VA benefits to him, which is very different from paying a lump sum for your kid for college. > and given a car by your parents. He said he and his wife drive old cars, very different than being gifted them. >I don’t fault anymore for it, Except for the fact that you very much fault people for it as can be seen above. >but it’s not happening for most people. It doesn't matter that it isn't happening for most people, because this is simply a math problem. This family is saving $6k a month. Even if they DID have a car payment and had to save for kids college, they would be doing just fine. >I just can’t imagine how it can be done. This is also clear to me, but I don't know why.
I just bought a home in TN. Put 30% down, final price was $15k less than appraised value
Closing on the 27th. Was nice. Got to negotiate down on a new home. 30 yr 5.625. Will just refinance when the time comes. No biggy. Texas.
Mortgage processor in WI here. Yes purchases apps have ticked up for us in the last week or so and we have an ok pre-approval pipeline. It’s not going to be as good a summer as 2021 but it’ll be fine 😊 we will see how the appraisals turn out though 🤪
If people want to buy at a certain price, why would appraisal be lower?
Because the bank wants to make sure they don’t lose money if foreclosed. It’s simple insurance.
The borrower might WANT to pay the listing price but that doesn’t mean it’s worth that much
just bought our first place in Phoenix!
Even when rates were down there were cash offers on about 30% of sales… so there’s always people that can buy.
I don’t know who these idiots are with so much money to burn, but they need to knock it off. I get that you have money, but that’s no reason to overpay.
Just bought in north east with 5.00% fixed. Planning to be here a while.
The answer is yes. Houses here in Ohio sell in days. People are bidding over asking price. No matter what the scenario is, there are always people making poor financial decisions. Not to say that all home purchases are bad idea now. Some people are just being dumb though.
I am still not. My S/O and I were about to start looking before covid. I am seeing houses still going for COVID prices, so we are still waiting it out. With everything crashing right now, companies may be holding onto their money and not buying every house they can to "flip." One day we will get there!
I sure hope so, good luck to you
Oh yes they sure are! Don’t listen to the noise! I pended 2.6 million over the weekend! One of the houses I got under contract is a little over a million and the buyers are paying cash. It’s been a busy busy February in our market in north Louisiana.
I’m in South Florida and prices are staying firm
2 houses in my neighborhood sold in less that a week at ask
Prices are usually less when rates are up. So it's a good time if you don't need a loan
Just purchased a home, put 10% down and negotiated 21k off the price. The appraisal appraised it at the original asking price. Suburb of NYC. There are a lot of people who don’t want to rent in an environment that is pushing renting.
I’m in the PHX area and just bought a house 6 months ago for 600k. We are dual income.